in_nomine-digest Monday, August 20 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2342 In this digest: Re: IN> Re: digest #2334? Re: IN>A Question about the Resonances of Fate Re: IN> Swearing in Remnants. Re: IN> Yet another heresy Re: IN>A Question about the Resonances of Demons Re: IN> Endurance Question Re: IN> Endurance Question IN> Lilim Roles Re: IN> Fantasy Race- Elementals IN> Fantasy Month: The Warrior Nuns Re: IN>A Question about the Resonances of Fate Re: IN> Fantasy Month: The Warrior Nuns Re: IN> Endurance Question Re: IN> Yet another heresy Re: IN> Jordi's Wild Kingdom Re: IN> Fantasy Month: The Warrior Nuns Re: IN>A Question about the Resonances of Fate Re: IN> Yet another heresy IN> Re: Balseraphs of Fate IN> Re: September& Heresy Re: IN> Yet another heresy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 15:17:54 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: digest #2334? At 8:42 PM -0400 8/16/01, Jonathan Walton wrote: >Hmm ... > >#2333 ... >#2335 ... >#2336 ... > >Looks like a case of missing digests. Is anyone else having this problem, >or is it just me? I think me and Orc are going to have to have a little >talk ... *polishes knuckles* The address that compiles the digests was bouncing. It may still be. People who need digests should send me the dates which are missing, so I can send compilations. They won't be all that pretty, but hey... - --Beth, List Admin http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/listrules.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 15:25:18 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN>A Question about the Resonances of Fate At 3:49 AM -0400 8/19/01, Rev. Pee Kitty wrote: >On Sat, 18 Aug 2001, Charles E Smith wrote: > >> is, if this is truly the aspect of the Choir, then they should be able to >> use their Resonances over media, just as real angels can. (Their >> Balseraph Resonances would still be limited, I think, being "truly" >> infernal.) >> >> So what do you think? > >I think that's a good question, and I'm amazed that no one's come up with >it before. Me too. >Beth? I like William Keith's answer. (Hey, BTW, William -- did you write a book or have a son/parent who did? I coulda sworn I saw your name on one in the bookstore yesterday.) Basically, one has to decide _how_ well the Balseraph attunement emulates a Choir. As William said, at heart the Balseraph is a demon, and therefore limited... but the attunement emulates an angel's scope. I'm not going to declare it officially GM's Option yet, since whoever winds up doing the Kronos extended extended writeup may be able to answer it, but it most definitely is a sticky ball of yarn to untangle. (I kinda favor that they can't -- which isn't a _sure_ fire test, since the CD is reduced when attempting to 'read' media, so a success and a CD 0 or less looks about like a Balseraph staring at the picture and going, 'Nope, didn't get anything that time.' O:> ) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 15:31:22 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Swearing in Remnants. At 4:57 PM +1100 8/20/01, james walker wrote: >Remnants are treated as humans for most purposes, and are sometimes mistaken >for them. Does anyone have any idea what happens if Oathtaking is used on a >remnant? >The options I could think of were: >- the Attunement has no effect. >- the Force attaches successfully, as a Celestial Force, rebuilding the >Remnant as either a demonling or Soldier. >- The Force attaches as a Corporeal or Ethereal Force, and has no other side >effects. >- The Force destabilises the Remnant, causing it to unravel until completely >destroyed. > >But which? Figure out 2 more options and roll a d6... O:> (But I don't think it would make a Soldier -- it'd be a celestial. Perhaps the other two should be: rebuilds it as a Fallen member of its former Choir (if angelic) or the Band it was, and: rebuilds it as a Discordant member of its former Choir (if angelic) . . . ) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 15:36:44 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Yet another heresy At 10:32 PM +0800 8/20/01, Manny Nepomuceno wrote: [...] >And Eli stepped into the center of the Hall. [...] >p.s. Baal, of course, was stunned. And probably appalled, the first time that he met the Superior-level version of the Malakite of Creation attunement. I mean, really, how revolting, when your opponent only has three greeting cards and a wet towel . . . Yes, amusing. O:> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 15:39:44 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN>A Question about the Resonances of Demons At 2:37 PM -0400 8/20/01, Rev. Pee Kitty wrote: >> The REAL question is whether a Lilim can use the 'sensing' part of her >> Resonance on media. I believe tha answer was, yes, she could but she >> couldn't convert that to a Hook. Information would be gathered, though. > >According to Canon, the answer is No. G:IN made it explicitly clear, and I >believe there's a mention in the IPG as well that when a Lilim goes Bright >her resonance expands to media as well. Yup. (Of course, as usual, Do What You Will in your own games.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 15:47:01 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Endurance Question At 11:42 AM -0700 8/20/01, Perry Lloyd wrote: >Do Celestials ever tire? Technically, no, though I sometimes suggest in PERSONAL USE that they can approximate the state -- more in a mental way than a physical one. E.g., a celestial who's been digging in the sun all day will pause, go "whew," and perhaps think longingly of a glass of water and a cool couch to flop on. But if he needs to keep digging, he does, and there's no ill effect. Likewise, even a Servitor of Lust can be mildly wiped out after a night of constant, um, stimulation. I would base the psychological effects upon Strength, myself, if you want to use them. > Can they maintain top running speed for days, then? Yah. >If this is true, then theorically they can exert their muscles to their full >capacity. Therefore contests of Strength begin toi make very little sense. >Assuming that Celestials never tire, they need not ever "exert" themselves >and therefore "Contests of Strength" should be used, instead it would be >merely the Celestial with the higher Strength who wins. If it's _purely_ Strength, then yes. However, the mechanics of IN being what they are, it's rarely "pure" Strength contests. Positioning, leverage, and luck (does the prisoner break free because the captor has sweaty palms?) also affect that attempt. >Also, this means that a human can -never flee successfully- from a Celestial >unless she can find shelter in which to hide, as the human will eventually >tire, >and the Celestial will not. Or the human might find some other sanctuary before the celestial catches up. >This also further distances Celestials from humanity, as they will never >full appreciate physical fatigue, they will never break a sweat from >exersion, and they cannot fail any test of endurance. Though they might well break a sweat -- a purely mechanical reaction, built into vessels after people started losing Roles due to lack of sweat. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 21:18 +0100 (BST) From: jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) Subject: Re: IN> Endurance Question In article , perrylloyd@hotmail.com (Perry Lloyd) wrote: > Do Celestials ever tire? Physically, that's open to doubt. Mentally, I think they can. The higher the choir, the less likely they are to do this, but I think it can happen to any of them. But they're less subject to self-doubt than humans, and usually maintain their morale far better. > Also, this means that a human can -never flee successfully- from a > Celestial unless she can find shelter in which to hide, as the human > will eventually tire, and the Celestial will not. Seems OK. > This also further distances Celestials from humanity, as they will never > full appreciate physical fatigue, they will never break a sweat from > exersion, and they cannot fail any test of endurance. I think they can feel the fatigue to a minor extent; it just doesn't bother them. They will sweat from exertion, since they'll generate heat while doing it and vessels are close enough to human to need cooling IMHO. - --- John Dallman jgd@cix.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 15:27:18 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner-Thornber Subject: IN> Lilim Roles I'm not terribly fond of the "Lilim as a party girl" stereotype. The power of geas just goes to waste. Instead, here's just about everyone you'd every want to know about what kind of role your favorite Lilim can fulfill. This encompasses just about every kind of role possible -- or at least those I could think of right now. It hasn't been edited, so if the sentences are kind of convoluted, it's because I'm learning Japanese. ************************************ Lilim Sworn to a Prince: Most Lilim ultimately swear to a Prince. Either they are tired of constantly being hounded by other demons, the Game, or, more likely, they find the rewards of joining a Prince's hierarchy, including titles, retainers, and advancement, to outweigh the benefits of staying neutral. These Lilim tend towards zealous loyalty -- or, as loyal as any demon can be without the use of geases. They're treated as normal demons by most of Hell. These are the "common Lilim" and tend to embody the "party demon" stereotype. These Lilim are equally as difficult to redeem as any other demon. Free Lilim - Gone to Ground: Free Lilim who have "gone to ground", or disappeared, are unlikely to continue participation in the War in any capacity. Except for their unnatural longevity and the one Level 1 Geas they own to Lilith, they are virtually indistinguishable from normal humans, and a careful one can escape detection for hundreds of years. These have often cut all ties with former comrades and no longer continue previous demonic or angelic activity. To them, the War is over. There is a rumor that some Lilim who walked away from the War voluntarily are actually acting as master puppeteers, stringing along vast numbers of humans from their mountain fortresses and hidden islands in giant conspiracies acting against both Heaven and Hell. None have yet been captured and interrogated, so this rumor continues to be unsubstantiated. However, there are teams actively investigating this possibility. "Free" Lilim/Free Lilim in the Service to a Prince: Less common than Lilim bound to a Prince, Free Lilim must build their own reputation. While most wander from Prince to Prince, picking up jobs as contractors when they can, others take on more permenant roles, using their resonance as a tool instead of a weapon. These Lilim offer a rare service: honesty, trustworthiness, and enforcable contractual work in the pit of Hell. They come in three forms: Brokers, Mediators and Arbitrators, and they all use the contract as their main tool. Building a Contract -- The contract is built from several geases binding several parties. All Lilim who craft contracts between celestials follow the same basic practice, and use it as their primary negotiating tool. The details of each deal may be different, but the means are the same. Two celestials come to the table with requests. They both want their requests met, and they can only get what they want from each other. However, since they are both demons, it is impossible to trust each other. Some Lilim use extra caution, and use tricks to encrypt or otherwise hide the negotiations of each party. The Lilim gathers up the requests, and follows these steps: A. The Lilim crafts a contract, and waits approval from both parties for the contract. Party A and Party B both frame their requests as "The Lilim makes the opposite party do what I want" instead of "I want the opposite party to do what I want." B. After getting approval, the Lilim binds party A to the contract, with the promise of honesty and getting party B to bind to the contract. In return, the Lilim asks her price, and takes it. She activates the geas on herself and on party A. C. The Lilim binds party B to the contract with the promise of honesty and party A's compliance. In return, the Lilim asks her price, and takes it. She activates the geas on herself and on party B. D. Since party A must follow through the geas to satisfy the promise to the Lilim, and party B also must follow through the geas to satisfy the promise to the Lilim, they both act to satisfy each other's needs. The Lilim, offering trustworthiness and to bind the other parties, has already fulfilled her end of the bargin. Once complete, the geases expire on the Lilim and all parties. Most geases used in contractual negotiations are Level 3 Geases unless the contract is extremely touchy or chaining is involved. Chaining -- Lilim may chain together requests to form a single giant contract. Client A wants a service that he wants from Client C, but the Lilim can only fulfill it through Client B. So, she finds something A and B can agree on, and B will bind himself to C so that C will fulfill A's original request. A -> Lilim <- B -> Lilim <- C A finds this advantageous because he gets a service from C he otherwise could not get, C finds this advantageous because he gets to extort a service from B, and B finds this advantageous because he gets a need fulfilled by A. The Lilim requires B to pay only once, and walks away with three kickbacks on a deal instead of two. In the end, everyone wins. Rumors of giant chaining contests held in the Guildhall are, also, completely unsubstantiated. Kickbacks to the Prince -- The issue with working for a Prince is that he stands there with his hand out. The Prince will require either contracts to be crafted in such a way that they are slated toward his Word, or he will require a bit of graft to allow the Lilim to continue working in autonomy. Lilim who are particularly proficient often gain tremendous favor in the eyes of their Prince and are pressured to join "permenantly." Lilim who are not proficient do not have their contracts renewed. Most Lilim automatically work their kickbacks into the payment when taking their piece. Brokers\Agents -- The most common role for a Free Lilim is the Agent or the Broker. This Lilim represents a large "stable" of demons. These demons pay the Lilim a fee, and in return, she finds buyers for their services. On finding a buyer, she constructs a contract, and binds both the represented member and the buyer to geases. The price for agents is outrageously high in Hell, especially in Shal Mari, because of the cost of the kickback to the Lilim's patron Prince. Pure Free Lilim contracts are pricier, because the Lilim guarentees "true objectivity" in return for her services -- although it is unclear how true or how objective she really is. It is easier for a demon to go through the Lilim on staff with the demon's Prince than to approach the Guildhall in search of a free Broker. That Lilim will likely have a large list of buyers on hand, or give marginal discounts to "members." Brokers are largely accepted ways of life in Hell; they're safe, fairly reliable, and will only moderately gouge. Between trying to finagle a fellow demon into doing something reliably for free or paying a broker to find a buyer and geas them into doing it, the Broker's fees may actually seem reasonable. Brokers maintain offices in the Lilim Guildhall or their patron Prince's cathedral. A few brave or down on their luck ones open offices in Shal Mari proper. This is a very popular avenue of career for Lilim who would rather not bind formally to a Prince. The Game has suggested the licensing of Brokers so they can keep "tabs" on them, but this unpopular idea has gotten very little support from the Lilim community. Mediators -- Free Lilim who fill the role of the Mediator are the grease that keeps the graft flowing in Hell. They represent the Prince's interests, and bring those interests to the negotiation table. They work with demon groups to demon groups. Known for the rare traits of honesty and integrity, these Lilim are the little-mentioned underground diplomats between Hell's fiefdoms. They refer to themselves as "liasons." For example, they may be the "Dark Comedy Liason to the Media in Los Angeles" or the "Dark Comedy Lieutenant in Los Angeles." Without the ability to take on official ranks like Knight or Captain, they take other titles to mark them as demons of status. These Lilim do the Prince's business. They will only work with demons when it is advantageous to their sponsor, and will not take disparate groups of demons as their clients. If they do work with two high ranking demons, their prices are high and their demands are large. If they work on a contract that may anger their patron, their fees are astronomical. However, Lilim Mediators are highly valued, since their contracts ensure that goods and supplies needed to complete various Earth-side manuevers are available, and are rarely tossed aside, even when they anger their Prince. Princes provide their Mediator Lilim with convenient Role covers to keep assassin bullets and Game interrogations at bay. The Lilim may appear to be working in a normal capacity as just another contracted worker when, in reality, they are working purely for the Prince's interests in ways that may or may not work in the interests of Hell. Baal employs a large group of Mediators to maintain his supply lines. Arbitrators -- An Arbitrator is a specific version of a Mediator. Arbitrators write and ratify contracts between angels and demons. These essential "peace pacts" enforce the necessary glue that keeps the War from breaking out into the streets. These contracts range anywhere from peace pacts with time limits to agreements for safe passage to the exchange of hostages. Free Lilim who work as Arbitrators are at risk. Both the Game and Judgment frown on the use of Arbitrators in any capacity, and have the Lilim eliminated whenever possible to shut down negotiations. After all, angels and demons should not be cooperating in any capacity at any time, and doing so is heresy. However, more pragmatic warriors on both sides - -- namely War and the War -- see these beings as essential to completing key military manuevers, and use them when necessary. Because of the risks involved in this role, Arbitrators often request bodyguards as part of their compensation package before coming to the table. It takes a certain unique individual to fill the role of an Arbitrator. They must be both trusted by the angels and the demons, have a proven track record of trustworthiness, and have learned to craft geases that will bind both parties without loopholes. They must pass the "Malakite Test" -- ie, be able to be in the presence of a Malakite lacking an automatic "kill all demons on sight" Oath without provoking it to violence. If they cannot pass this test, angels deem the Lilim unworthy of their trust, and do not use them to ratify their contracts. Few Lilim fill this role for very long, and those that do often demand large compensation packages from both parties. They are cognizant of the danger and their shortened life spans. A few Princes keep Arbitrators on staff as Mediators so they can fly them into a particularly hot spot, under the nose of the Game, at a moment's notice. Lilim who work as Arbitrators are targetted by angels for redemption. However, it is rare that a Lilim will willingly leave both her vaulted position as a known, trusted mediator and walk into a completely unknown world. Free Lilim in the Service to Trade: Occasionally, Lilim will take jobs from angels. Lilim understand the worth of more training, and there are few places where one can get more direct training crafting contracts, learning to navigate arcane laws, and absorbing the art of negotiation than in a stint under the angels of Trade. These jobs are dangerous -- more dangerous than working as an Arbitrator, since now it is working directly for the enemy. However, Trade has been employing Lilim under the table for so long, they have codified process and procedure for using their services while protecting everyone's interests. Often, after a long stint with Trade, Marc will make the offer to attempt a redemption to bring the Lilim on "full time." The Lilim will normally turn him down for a variety of reasons: a fear of Heaven, a disinterest in leaving their tangled lives, or a continued distrust of angels. Bright Lilim: Few Lilim become Bright, and a vast majority of those are ones who have spent their lives Free or Free in the Service. For most, there is too much lost for them to join the forces of Heaven. Some Free Lilim see it as tantamount as binding to a Prince. Others see it as leaving "the life," and no matter what pure lives they lead to keep up their underground contacts all over the map, they are loathe to leave it. Some simply are greedy, and do not want to leave the lives of luxury they have built. Those that do become Bright are a diverse group, and they have their own reasons. Some would rather simply be able to live a life of honesty without the need to bind themselves to it constantly. Others simply do not want to deal with the give and take of other people's Needs anymore. The Lilim who redeem to Trade are eager to get back on the horse again, and a vast majority of those who do redeem stick with Marc. Others lean toward other "lawful" occupations where their diplomacy skills and their art of the contract comes often into play. A few, but very few, redeem and bind to Eli. No one knows why. ********** Emily K. Dresner-Thornber Freelance Writer, Guardians of Order zenith@evilkitten.org "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 17:00:02 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: Re: IN> Fantasy Race- Elementals [Would I be right in assuming that, because Lurline is Angel of Rain, her most famous instance of enchanting a territory into fairy land is usually reached by going Over The Rainbow?] I was wondering if anyone would pick up on that particular joke. Yes indeed...yes it's true. One of the reason Jean hates the idea of it being colorized too... Too many painful memories...sniffle. - -Charlemagne _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 05:20:00 -0400 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: IN> Fantasy Month: The Warrior Nuns Just wanted to share one of my favorite religion-based comic characters with all of you. ^^ - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -------- The Calabite chuckled in a frightening matter as he slowly approached the children cowering the dark corner. Being a Servitor of Lust gave one such fine opportunities for rare fun, he thought. "Don't even Think about it, Demon!" The Lusty suddenly turned towards the voice and saw, in another darkened corner, what appeared to be someone in a nun's habit, stepping slowly towards the light. The Demon scoffed. What was a Penguin doing here, in this abandonned wearhouse? If she was hoping to stop him, he'd have fun with her too. ....At least, that's what he was thinking until she stepped into the light, and he noticed the sword in her hand. ...And the body armor she was wearing mixed with the habit. ...And the Cybernetic Left Hand... The Demon suddenly recognized this Nun's description and went wide-eyed. "...Oh Crap." Sister Shannon Masters, aka Warrior Nun Areala, simply smiled as she raised her sword, readying herself to rid the Earth of yet another Hellspawn. "Oh Crap, Indeed, Demon-Born." The Calabite sooned learned two things: One, The Warrior Nun's reputation had not been exagerated: the Savage beating he'd recieved from her was truly worthy of a Malakite. And Second: You don't rape kids in Sister Areala's turf. Now he knew why. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------ The Warrior Nuns, when they got started, where one of Heaven's more controversial programs, especially in regards to the status of women in Medieval Europe. Nonetheless, the first thing Laurence insisted on doing the moment he was given his Archangelhood and Full command of Heaven's resources was to promote one of his lieutenants, the Malakite Angel Areala, whom he had personally fledged during the Purity Crusade, and gave her the resources to create the Holy Catholic Order of Warrior Nuns, which she would inspire and guide personally. The order continues to this day, and has gained enough of a strong reputation as a force of God's Wrath that nobody in Heaven really questions it's existance anymore. ....Or Areala's actual origins, either. But that's a story for another time. The order of Warrior Nuns, as can be guessed, is an organisation of female demon hunters and holy soldiers, organised in service to the Catholic Church, to which it answers to. There is no attempt at concealing the order's nature or purpose; most people (including many highly placed church officials) believe the current order is an archaic, pointless and superstious ramnant of the Middle Ages, but no Pontiff has ever cleared the decision to dismantle it completly. But most people dismiss it as nothing more then the Catholic equivalent of a kung-fu academy. ....Of course, the public doesn't usually know that the Warrior Nun Organisation (and it's brother organisation, the Order of Magic Priests) gets a defense budget equal to that of the Pentagon's own... Only with much better products as a result (it helps, having Marc pick the accountants and Jean the Engineers). The Warrior Nuns, although traditionally equipped with Holy Swords, can all access the finest heavy artillery and high-tech vehicules the Vatican can provide them, should it be needed. The Warrior Nuns themselves are almost ALL Soldiers of God, selected amongst the finest youth, and given intensive training and tests intended to awaken their Sixth Force, making them true Soldiers. They are taught the Songs of Healing and are given special Holy Swords which can slay demons, but pass harmlessly through humans. These Swords are, however, equipped with a variation of the Song of Etheral Entropy designed by Laurence himself, which is triggered when the sword passes through a Sinful Human; the Sword triggers a vision of Hell inside the Human's mind, sending him into shock. Of all the Warrior Nuns, the most famous of them all is Sister Areala, the original founder of the order, who renamed herself after the vision of a Holy Angel called Areala granted her the strength to fight against Viking Raiders during the Middle Ages. Since then, every few decades, a new Sister Areala comes along, whenever a Sister of the order has a vision of Areala the Angel during a near-death experience. The most recent Warrior Nun Areala, Sister Shannon Masters, has since become an examplary member of the Warrior Nuns, and has championned many assaults against the Forces of Hell on her own. It's gotten to the point where the Demons are suspecting her of being the Malakite Areala herself, in a good role. She isn't, actually. Sister Shannon is as Human a Soldier as they come. She just has Seven Forces, rather then six. Areala just serves as her Patron, subconsciously teaching her Songs and secretly giving her Attunements, such as Hunt and Holy Blade. But neither one resents the mistaken identity too much; Heaven knows it's own, and it makes the Demons really confused about who or what they're facing. Besides... Shannon really feels blessed, when people consider her equal to a Malakite. Areala the Malakite of the Sword, Angel of Warrior Nuns, will come in a future post. Stay tuned! ^^ - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 17:54:32 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN>A Question about the Resonances of Fate >I like William Keith's answer. (Hey, BTW, William -- did you write >a book or have a son/parent who did? I coulda sworn I saw your name on >one in the bookstore yesterday.) Heh heh. Unrelated, but there is indeed a William Keith who writes science-fiction novels. I've never read any -- maybe I should, but how would I send fan mail? ;^) There was also a British cardiologist by the same name, and a painter in one of the American schools in (I think) the 19th century. (Ever typed your name (first then last, in quotes, so as to get the right match) into www.google.com? It can be an interesting experience, especially if your first and last names -- like mine -- are fairly common.) >--emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor >RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ William J. Keith, son of William B. Keith. P.S. When I have a first son, he shall be named William, like his father and his father before him. Now don't that just sound cool enough to make him stand six inches taller? ;^) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 14:54:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Fantasy Month: The Warrior Nuns - --- Rolland Therrien wrote: > Just wanted to share one of my favorite religion-based > comic characters with > all of you. And glad I am of it. I've never read that comic, but I've been curious. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 What came first -- the orange, or the color? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:46:44 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Endurance Question >This also further distances Celestials from humanity, as they will never >full appreciate physical fatigue, they will never break a sweat from >exersion, >and they cannot fail any test of endurance. > >-Perry Almost immediately after I first read the Main Book, I thought about this exact topic, and I came up with this: Zekariah Mercurian of Stone Angel of Laborers "Blessed are those who labor and are weary..." (numbers not filled in... this is all just concept. He'd be a high-ranking angel in Stone's organization, though. Heck, he might even qualify as a proto-Superior. The Word's certainly big enough.) Attunements: Fatigue: An angel with this Attunement spends 1 Essence to change his Vessel slightly for 24 hours: it experiences fatigue. To be precise, at the start of the period the angel's Vessel acts as if it just woke up and had a good meal; as time goes on, the angel will experience tiredness as would a human of their Strength, and eventually feel the need to sleep. Once the 24 hours are up, the effects vanish within 5 minutes. Most angels can make it through 24 hours without falling asleep, but not much longer -- and the effect can be renewed without causing Disturbance. Why would any angel want this Attunement? For one thing, it helps an angel to pass as human when they need to work in... well, in places where the Angel of Laborers usually needs angels to work, which are sweaty, load-hauling, hammer-swinging conditions in which somebody not tiring is an aberration. For another, it helps to understand Humanity. Angels who constantly overwork their human helpers to the point of burnout or collapse may be sent to the Angel of Laborers for a while -- they usually come back with more realistic views. Angel of Laborers: Zeke himself, and Mercurians who work for him if granted this Attunement, can use the Mercurian Resonance to know what if any major labor someone has done recently (in the past months times angel's Corporeal Forces). Rites: +1 Spend a workday in manual labor. +1 Join six or more beings recovering together from the fatigue of a day's labor. William ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:53:44 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Yet another heresy >I can imagine. How does a self-respecting Balseraph cope when he discovers >that Heaven's Finest now carry spicy chicken wings instead of flaming >swords? > >-- Casca > >("And if you hit them in the eye, the spice makes it sting!") Not chicken... shrimp! SHRIIIMMMMP!!!! (Rolls over on the floor laughing himself silly.... BWAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!!) William P.S. You score *major* points with me if you get the reference. ^_^ %^) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:37:29 -0700 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Jordi's Wild Kingdom > On Mon, 20 Aug 2001, Perry Lloyd wrote: > > > Jordi's Wild Kingdom > > > > text @ : http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/insmv/wild_kingdom.html > > I like the concept! But the last two strike me as overpowered, frankly. > I'd suggest that each ASPECT of the power cost 1 Essence, instead of > activating all aspects for 1 Essence. > > Otherwise, why bother with the Frog when you have the Tiger, for example? Because you don't get to choose which Attunement you receive, for one. Also, if you do the math, Frog's leap (at Str 10) gives up a 30ft jump straight UP, and 50 feet across, more than the Tiger. Furthermore, it's Jordi's grade 3 angels getting these powers, his Masters of the Creature Within. They -should- be sick powerful, SFAIK. And who's going to tell Jordi to play fair, anyway? - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd "As long as people will accept crap, it will be financially profitable to dispense it. " - --Dick Cavett ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 19:03:53 -0400 From: "Jeffery Watkins" Subject: Re: IN> Fantasy Month: The Warrior Nuns This was magnificient! I even remebered when this comic first came out, though I had forgoten about it over the years. Thanks for the write-up. Mmmm...now to include it in the game... Jeffery :-) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 19:06:58 -0400 From: "Jeffery Watkins" Subject: Re: IN>A Question about the Resonances of Fate >Heh heh. Unrelated, but there is indeed a William Keith who writes >science-fiction novels. I've never read any -- maybe I should, but how >would I send fan mail? ;^) Actually he has a web site. http://users.sgi.net/~whkeith/ Thanks for replying. I had always wondered if you and he were the same. He does respond to email, though its been a year or two since I wrote him. Jeffery _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 19:12:24 -0700 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Yet another heresy - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth McCoy" To: Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 12:36 PM Subject: Re: IN> Yet another heresy the subject heading is Yet another heresy . . . but does Heaven (Dominic) actually have something concrete to commit heresy -against-?? The core text tells us the Dominic is Christian. Which version of Christianity does he compare those he judges to? Or does he Judge everyone according to their own standards - he can't, he's no Malakite. Perhaps he judges people against the Three Holy Religions: Judaism, Christianity and Islam, but which one and which version of which one? Where are the rules that Heaven has laid down? You can't have heresy without a Truth or Law which you defie!!! Lemme guess, CDaU. - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd "Be careful what you pretend to be because you are what you pretend to be. " - --Kurt Vonnegut ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:06:48 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Re: Balseraphs of Fate > I was under the impression that the distinction was simply a matter of > being 'receptive' as opposed to being 'transmittive.' Most angelic > resonances are based on perceiving, and so can function on recordings. Big exception, that shoots this down - Bright Lilim. Resonance hasn't really changed from Dark Lilim, but Bright's can detect Needs via recordings. Demons are supposed to have there own personal Symphonies, which they impose on their victims, while angels are an inherent part of the real Symphony. this may be the cause of the extra range the angels have. To bend brains further, the GMG has an optional rule allowing an angel to use their demonic counterparts resonance; could the angel use the demonic resonance via a recording? :-) James. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:15:15 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Re: September& Heresy >> And then he spoke. "Well -- yes," he murmured, clearing his throat, "it >> seems we have a lot to get done." >> And Eli stepped into the center of the Hall. > > I am simply agog at the implications inherent in the use of Archangel-class > Malakite of Creation attunement used on the strategic level. > >> p.s. Baal, of course, was stunned. > > I can imagine. How does a self-respecting Balseraph cope when he discovers > that Heaven's Finest now carry spicy chicken wings instead of flaming > swords? Can we weave this into next month topic? We already have votes for changes in Words; Eli returning to Heaven and being granted C-in-C rank as he's the only Superior who now really understands the state of the world has a certain appeal. Also, with Servitors in every AA's organisation, Eli can rapidly determine the state of Heaven. James. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 21:29:42 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Yet another heresy >the subject heading is Yet another heresy . . . but does Heaven (Dominic) >actually have something concrete to commit heresy -against-?? The core text >tells us the Dominic is Christian. Which version of Christianity does he >compare those he judges to? Or does he Judge everyone according to their >own standards - he can't, he's no Malakite. Perhaps he judges people >against the Three Holy Religions: Judaism, Christianity and Islam, but which >one and which version of which one? > >Where are the rules that Heaven has laid down? You can't have heresy >without a Truth or Law which you defie!!! > >Lemme guess, CDaU. > >-Perry In Dominic's extended writeup in Superiors 1 -- and by inference throughout canon -- there are descriptions of angelic crimes, and some angelic law. Indeed, I bought Superiors 1 largely to learn about this, and while I'd prefer to have a more explicit code, one can easily see how that could start restricting GM's options quickly. Some of the basic "crimes" for angels are: Falling, of course -- penalty, death. Not even Novalis will get particularly worked up if a Judge kills a Fallen Servitor. Outcasting -- to a slightly lesser extent. Frequently the penalty is death unless the angel's Superior intervenes, or the angel is sincerely repentant. Dissonance and Discord -- severely investigated and may result in repercussions, depending on the Angel's superior. Disobedience of one's Archangel -- some punishment may be merited beyond any actions taken within the Superior's organization. For a Dominican, this and all crimes above can merit death -- any crime by a Judge is punished more severely. The Seven Deadly Sins -- Pride, for example, was the reason for Michael's trial. And, after all, any of them are Words of Princely power. Obstruction of Judgment -- lying to a Triad, or remaining silent when asked a question within the Triad's duties. Also, resisting arrest or attempting to escape are serious violations. "Willful blindness to the effects [of his sins] on others" is explicitly mentioned in the writeup. Literal heresy is not actually mentioned directly. It is probably considerably more concrete than on Earth -- there are actual recorded Words of God about, and guaranteed acts of God occurring. Saying that one of these is false or evil is probably good for a quick trip to the Tribunal. Beyond these, there's not so much canon. Like I said before, this is probably to the good -- the number, scope, and severity of Heaven's laws could play a big part in determining the style of an angelic campaign, especially anything involving Dominicans, Renegades, Outcasts, Grigori, and to a lesser extent Creationers, Michaelites, and Gabrielites. William ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2342 ********************************