in_nomine-digest Wednesday, August 29 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2351 In this digest: IN> Next Month IN> Orcs & Eugenics IN> Heretical Archangel of Flowers Re: IN> Next Month's Theme Re: IN> John the Baptist, he ain't. (But he *is* Cadre, among other things.) Re: IN> Do As Thou Wilt (an exercise in Habbalogic) Re: IN> John the Baptist, he ain't. (But he *is* Cadre, among other things.) Re: IN> John the Baptist, he ain't. (But he *is* Cadre, among other things.) Re: IN> (fantasy) On dragons Re: IN> This post will self-destruct in 5 seconds... Re: IN> Next Month's Theme Re: IN> John the Baptist, he ain't. (But he *is* Cadre, among other things.) Re: IN> Next Month's Theme Re: IN> Next Month's Theme RE: IN> Next Month's Theme Re: IN> Next Month's Theme Re: IN> John the Baptist, he ain't. (But he *is* Cadre, among other things.) RE: IN> Next Month Re: IN> John the Baptist, he ain't. (But he *is* Cadre, among other things.) Re: IN> Next Month's Theme Re: IN> (fantasy) On dragons Re: IN> John the Baptist, he ain't. (But he *is* Cadre, among other things.) Re: IN> John the Baptist, he ain't. (But he *is* Cadre, among other things.) Re: IN> (fantasy) On dragons Re: IN> (fantasy) On dragons Re: IN> (fantasy) On dragons Re: IN> (fantasy) On dragons Re: IN> John the Baptist, he ain't. (But he *is* Cadre, among other things.) Re: IN> John the Baptist, he ain't. (But he *is* Cadre, among other things.) IN> On Lightning Fwd: Re: IN> Next Month's Theme Fwd: Re: IN> Next Month's Theme Re: IN> On Lightning Re: IN> On Lightning Re: IN> Valefor's Daughter Re: IN> Next Month's Theme ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 15:47:49 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Next Month > From: Maurice Lane > Subject: Re: IN> Next Month's Theme > > - --- Charles E Smith wrote: >> So everyone, what's next month's theme? Are we going >> with the idea of new >> Superiors after all the current ones have perished? > > Err, OK. I was actually doing just a normal Heretical > Superior, but I guess that I can let it go for a month > or so... > > Moe I'm fine with a shift in power levels of Superiors, whether caused by a near future/cyberpunk setting, Eli becoming Commander of the Armies of God*, or some other reason; but I'd rather we still have the regular gang around - if only for 'where are they now?' interviews by Nybbas. James. * a fun option; Laurence seems better at training the Host than leading it - him being told 'well done, you've built the army that will win the War' make a certain sense. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 15:42:25 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Orcs & Eugenics >> Great take on Orcs, Moe. > > Thanks: I appreciate the praise. Just bear it mind > when you read below, 'kay? ;) Oh, I realised the implications! > > >>. Failing that, a selective >>assassination campaign to eliminate the Orcs with the >>most 'orcish' traits might eventually breed the race >>back to something resembling their original form. > > Ah. You know, in the Fantasy world that I'm groping > towards, some of the more progressive members of the > Host suggest the first half as a course of action... > and yet they wonder why the Orcs hate them even more > than the rest of Heaven. The knowledge that the most 'orcish' looking members of the tribes are Heaven's prime targets will affect how the other Orcs view them. For starters, they are excellent to have around as when the Malakite raiding party turns up as they get killed first, making it easier for everyone else to run away; also, they can become martyrs/figureheads/symbols. A shrewd orc could parlay that into a great deal of power - which could result in these orcs flourishing, and being more successful. > Well, it's not too surprising: I mean, the > Reconstructionalists don't really consider themselves > as being just as genocidial as the War Faction. They > just want to _help_, right? Ah, Eugenicists are SO misunderstood! :-) James. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 02:33:59 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Heretical Archangel of Flowers Sorry Moe I'm on a role. The Rose King Archangel of Flowers "And I gazed upon the fields of the World and saw a flower planted for every man, woman, and child who died unjustly." The Rose King has an older name among the servitors of Flowers and that is Milowyn but nobody refers to him by that title anymore because of his insistance. The Rose King takes his title from the blood red roses that now infest the Gardens of Novalis and dominate all other plants present....they are a grim and visible reminder of the death of Novalis at the hands of Fufur and his hordes when she agreed to redeem him and fell into a most hideous trap. It was then that the Angel of Roses Milowyn lifted up the sword he had once wielded in the service of Uriel before his disgust at the Purity Crusade drove him to abandon war and he charged at the Prince of Hardcore, severing the Demon Prince's head from his body in a stroke that God himself guided. The legend further goes on to speak that the Higher Heavens opened up and a rainstorm fell upon Novalis's Glade where each droplet formed into a bloody rose. These words echoing through Heaven "Let the avenger of my beloved daughter walk forward and be known forever as the Rose King. The Rose being chief among flowers and charged with protecting them all from this day forward." The new Rose King arose from his kneeling position beside his beloved Novalis as the new Archangel of Flowers and has subtly dedicated his life from this day forward to continuing the work that his dead mistress proclaimed but with an entirely different way. The Malakim Lord of Flowers despises violence above all other things but evil itself yet he cannot abide it and signals his men to wage a sorrowful war upon the darkness. To the Rose King the War is a great abomination of kinslaying and he bears no demon of Hell any hatred and only pity yet sacrafice must be made. Novalis's followers have mostly stuck with their new Commander as his violent attitudes are still far below most of Heaven's levels and many feel so keenly the loss of their mistress that they accept his new call to the destruction of Hell with more relish than he. A few factions of them have retreated to Blandine and Zadkiel but surprisingly many servitors of Laurence, Michael, and David have also requested service with the strange new Archangel. The Rose King when he appears chooses to take the form of a respectable young man in his twenties often dressed in a military uniform or funeral like tuxedo. The only constants are that the Rose king never is without his beloved Blood Roses even if it is only one with a lapel. His blade from Uriel's time has become blood red and has a small white cross inside it eeriely similar to the type found in poppies after WW2 in France. Those of romantic feeling in Heaven believe that the Rose King's constant melancholy has more to do with the mere loss of his superior and that in actuality the Rose King was deeply in love with Novalis but could never express it as a mere angel to her Archangel status. A Malakim to the quietessmal Cherub. And it is too late now. Dissonance: It is dissonant for Servitors of the Rose King to strike out in anger (let alone hatred) against any living thing but only in concern, pity, defense, or even love. This not only includes acts of violence but societal conversation and the destruction of inanimate objects. Christian angels note that this may not be healthy as even Jesus reacted upon anger once. Altered Choir Attunements: Seraphim: A Seraph of Flowers can "charm" a flower for a day that it will bleed whenever in the presence of a sinner who has lied to remain free of justice with the ammount of blood determining the depth of sin (a Murderer would turn a white rose blood red). Malakim: Malakim of Flowers can turn a plant into a lethal weapon with the success on his check determining what the addition to it's accuracy inflicting damage as per it's size (Roses function like daggers and no I am not going to be wearing a Tuxedo tonight, why?) Additional Servitor Attunements: The Mourning of the Dead: By plucking a nearby flower and gazing into their petals the angel can gain a glimpse of a person's murderer if the flower is held to a victem's chest. Former Servitors of the Sword who keep the Hunt attunement find this ability incredibly deadly and the Rose King has shown he has been able to grant it himself. Crown of Poppies: An attunement that belonged first to the Major dormo of the Rose King in the Angel of Poppies. This ability works exactly like Crown of Joy save it puts it's victems to sleep rather than into dance. New Distinctions Vassal of Thorns/Petals Vassals of Petals retain Novalis's original distinction Vassals of Thorns however can tell the level of hate that exists between two people and why with a successful perception check. Friend of Sacrafice/Life Friends of Life retain their original Attunement from Novaluis. Friends of Sacrafice can make whoever wearing one of their flowers unafraid to die or suffer no matter what the cost. Masters of Righteous Vengence/Peace Masters of Peace keep their original attunements Masters of Righteous Vengeance can transform any large body of plant life into an animated deathtrap for evil doers as the plants rise up to destroy the wicked for their crimes. Additonal Rites: * Spend an hour placing flowers on the graves of the dead * Slay someone who deserves to die (rapist, oathbreaker, or murderer by the Rose King's standards) and plant a rose in his honor Relations: To be perfectly frank the Rose King is a dramatic tip of the War faction to the cause of Armageddon even as the loss of Novalis has made quite a few Archangels pause in the effectiveness of their campaign. David, Laurence, and Blandine all find the Rose King a very honest, deep, and feeling figure whose sorrow and oaths speak well to them. Dominic ironically dislikes him just as much as he did Novalis because the man's melancholy routinely seems to border on disinterest in the affairs of his troops and he has publically expressed his approval of Eli's departure with the words "On occasion we all need time to clear our heads". Michael also remains skeptical of the man's military potential given that he expresses such reservations about war yet lacks Novalis's incredible insistance and desire for peace. The Rose King himself simply wants an end to the War and the world to be happy....which puts him at odds with everyone on occasion. Jordi remains the Most Hostile of all because he has turned the word of flowers into another humanocentric word. Allied: Blandine, Laurence (Laurence and Blandine are allied with him) Associated: David, Gabriel, Eli (David is associated) Neutral: Dominic Hostile: No One (Jordi is hostile to him) Summoning Modifiers +1 A Rose +2 A bouquett for the dead +3 A book of poetry about flowers +4 Long stemmed roses for a lover +5 a flower filled funeral for man who died in honor +6 A poppy with a white cross in it - -Charlemagne _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 03:20:25 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Next Month's Theme > So everyone, what's next month's theme? Are we going with the idea of new > Superiors after all the current ones have perished? Speaking of next month, I'm calling dibs on running Iron Rev 4. And who won IR3, anyway? - -- Casca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 03:20:44 -0400 From: Daniel Sauve Subject: Re: IN> John the Baptist, he ain't. (But he *is* Cadre, among other things.) On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 21:02:48 -0700 (PDT), Maurice Lane wrote: >He's just watching and hoping that Something Will Not >Happen Today... The tip off, for those who didn't get it yet. Here, Moe-- this pen was blessed by Eli to never run out of ink. Issaic was fond of it... - -- Your GM Daniel Sauve (in nomine, shadowrun, earthdawn, hero unlimited) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 03:23:14 -0400 From: Daniel Sauve Subject: Re: IN> Do As Thou Wilt (an exercise in Habbalogic) On Wed, 29 Aug 2001 00:26:14 -0400, adamiani@umich.edu wrote: >(Who has been away from proper net access for a large part of the month) I knew I was saving this Esscence point and gusto cookie for /someone/. - -- Your GM Daniel Sauve (in nomine, shadowrun, earthdawn, hero unlimited) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 04:05:32 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> John the Baptist, he ain't. (But he *is* Cadre, among other things.) At 3:20 AM -0400 8/29/01, Daniel Sauve wrote: >On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 21:02:48 -0700 (PDT), Maurice Lane > >wrote: > >>He's just watching and hoping that Something Will Not >>Happen Today... >The tip off, for those who didn't get it yet. Here, Moe-- this pen was blessed >by Eli to never run out of ink. Issaic was fond of it... Well, I must be daft, because I haven't the foggiest idea, even after that. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Impudite of Secrets -- or Mercurian of Revelation (candidate for the Word of Obscurity) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 03:55:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> John the Baptist, he ain't. (But he *is* Cadre, among other things.) - --- Whistling in the Dark wrote: > At 3:20 AM -0400 8/29/01, Daniel Sauve wrote: > >On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 21:02:48 -0700 (PDT), Maurice > Lane > > > >wrote: > > > >>He's just watching and hoping that Something Will > Not > >>Happen Today... > >The tip off, for those who didn't get it yet. Here, > Moe-- this pen was blessed > >by Eli to never run out of ink. Issaic was fond of > it... > > Well, I must be daft, because I haven't the foggiest > idea, even after that. Sorry, guys: this is a deliberately obscure character, not least because the SF author that he's based off of is one of those people that everybody's read but nobody's ever heard of. Couple that with his place in the universe (Hmm. Mercurian that thinks that suicide can solve problems, comes from an alternate universe and freaked out at the sight of Janus. I wonder what Word _he_ served?), and it's not too surprising that his writeup is a little fuzzy... Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 07/29/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 05:55:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> (fantasy) On dragons - --- Rolland Therrien wrote: > I'd assume Belial would be publicly challenging either > Prince's claim on the > control of Dragons, since they're Obviously destructive > Fire-based creatures Not necessarily. Colddrakes breathe ice, so they'd be directly opposed to Belial (and his attempts to recruit or destroy them might drive them into the arms of Janus...). Then there's thunderwyrms, whose breath weapon is lightning (Janus again) and wyverns (who have a scorpionlike sting, at least in some versions). And let's not forget the Lung and the Piasa, which have little in common with Occidental Dragons (neither breathes fire, for one). ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 What came first -- the orange, or the color? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 06:13:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> This post will self-destruct in 5 seconds... - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > Dirty Tricks This has... possibilities... [insert crescendo of evil laughter] ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 What came first -- the orange, or the color? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 06:22:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Next Month's Theme > --- Charles E Smith wrote: > > So everyone, what's next month's theme? Are we going > > with the idea of new > > Superiors after all the current ones have perished? Much as I like the idea of Jordi's Wild Kingdom (seeing as I thought of it), Successors sounds even better. I suppose Jordi can wait a month... ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 What came first -- the orange, or the color? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:42:00 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> John the Baptist, he ain't. (But he *is* Cadre, among other things.) At 3:55 AM -0700 8/29/01, Maurice Lane wrote: >Sorry, guys: this is a deliberately obscure character, >not least because the SF author that he's based off of >is one of those people that everybody's read but >nobody's ever heard of. I don't think he's Horace Gold, and I don't think the hints are as specific as you think, since there are several of SF's honor guard who took that way out. It could also be metaphoric, since (for example) one could suggest that Philip Dick suicided though he was listed as a heart attack. If part of the point is you don't want people to know who it is, that's your perogative, of course, but it makes it hard to play the Cadre game with him. > Couple that with his place >in the universe (Hmm. Mercurian that thinks that >suicide can solve problems, But Philip Jose Farmer isn't *dead.* > comes from an alternate >universe and freaked out at the sight of Janus. I >wonder what Word _he_ served?), and it's not too >surprising that his writeup is a little fuzzy... Heh. I'm just thinking there could have been better communica-- Or is that the wrong track? - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Impudite of Secrets -- or Mercurian of Revelation (candidate for the Word of Obscurity) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:10:50 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Next Month's Theme Charles E Smith wrote: > > So everyone, what's next month's theme? Are we going with the idea > of new Superiors after all the current ones have perished? That's a good one, as is Jordi's Wild Kingdom (anything to try and make Jordi a more usable Superior). But I'd also like to put IN/SF (In Nomine Science Fiction) on the queue. Specifically, what about In Nomine in a galaxy full of different intelligent races? There. That'll hold us until winter... Earl ------------------------------ Date: 29 Aug 2001 10:37:38 -0400 From: "Matthew B. Gerber" Subject: Re: IN> Next Month's Theme On 29 Aug 2001 10:10:50 -0500, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > That's a good one, as is Jordi's Wild Kingdom (anything to try and > make Jordi a more usable Superior). But I'd also like to put > IN/SF (In Nomine Science Fiction) on the queue. Specifically, > what about In Nomine in a galaxy full of different intelligent > races? There. That'll hold us until winter... We've had at least five *very* viable ideas now, and I'm sure I'm forgetting at least one or two. So who makes the call? Or do we vote? Or do we just shoot for a general consensus? Matt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:41:01 -0400 From: "Adams, David" Subject: RE: IN> Next Month's Theme So everyone, what's next month's theme? Are we going with the idea of new Superiors after all the current ones have perished? I'm all for it. I have really like the stuff I've seen so far. I look forward to what else pops up. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:47:41 -0400 From: "Jeffery Watkins" Subject: Re: IN> Next Month's Theme I would like to nominate IN Space as next month's theme, if one has not been definitely decided upon. I would love to see what the list would do with it. Okay, okay, its a shameless way of getting help for the IN Space game I am running. Sigh. Jeffery _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:56:01 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> John the Baptist, he ain't. (But he *is* Cadre, among other things.) Okay, Moe, is he H. Beam Piper? It's the right initial, he wrote famously about parallel timelines, and he committed suicide. Why he'd be ticked and Janus, I don't know. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:56:29 -0400 From: "Adams, David" Subject: RE: IN> Next Month From: james walker I'm fine with a shift in power levels of Superiors, whether caused by a near future/cyberpunk setting, Eli becoming Commander of the Armies of God*, or some other reason; but I'd rather we still have the regular gang around - if only for 'where are they now?' interviews by Nybbas. Well why not do it then. It's a different take on the same theme. I think it would be cool. Only problem would be trying to ask a Balseraph how he felt. "NO, I'm was never a Demon Prince. I was just a decoy so he wouldn't be the target of assasination attempts." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 15:03:05 +0000 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> John the Baptist, he ain't. (But he *is* Cadre, among other things.) > >Okay, Moe, is he H. Beam Piper? It's the right initial, he >wrote famously about parallel timelines, and he committed >suicide. Why he'd be ticked and Janus, I don't know. > >Earl I don't know much about H. Beam Piper, but I suspect he might dislike Janus because one of his best-known ideas was stolen for the third Star Wars movie .... Janet Anderson * * * * Beware the anger of a patient bard. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:04:55 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Next Month's Theme At 10:47 AM -0400 8/29/01, Jeffery Watkins wrote: >I would like to nominate IN Space as next month's theme, if one has >not been definitely decided upon. I would love to see what the list >would do with it. Okay, okay, its a shameless way of getting help >for the IN Space game I am running. Sigh. Hm. I'd rather not go into why, but I'd be unable to participate in such a thing, and in fact would likely unsubscribe during it. This is not a reason *not* to do IN Space, but I'd vote for almost anything else first. Of the proposed items, I like the Superior Successors and Jordi's Wild Kingdom the best. Does someone want to throw one of those free web polls up and collect votes, to decide which of these we do? - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Impudite of Secrets -- or Mercurian of Revelation (candidate for the Word of Obscurity) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:05:20 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> (fantasy) On dragons Michael Walton wrote: > Not necessarily. Colddrakes breathe ice, so they'd be > directly opposed to Belial (and his attempts to recruit or > destroy them might drive them into the arms of Janus...). > Then there's thunderwyrms, whose breath weapon is lightning > (Janus again) and wyverns (who have a scorpionlike sting, > at least in some versions). And let's not forget the Lung > and the Piasa, which have little in common with Occidental > Dragons (neither breathes fire, for one). Never heard of thunderwyrms, but if they throw lightning, isn't that clearly connected to Jean, Archangel of Lightning? Lung are associated with rain, aren't they? Janus again, for lack of the late Oannes. What's a Piasa? Sounds like an Italian summer house. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:10:33 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> John the Baptist, he ain't. (But he *is* Cadre, among other things.) At 10:56 AM -0500 8/29/01, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Okay, Moe, is he H. Beam Piper? It's the right initial, he >wrote famously about parallel timelines, and he committed >suicide. Why he'd be ticked and Janus, I don't know. Well, the Janus stuff, along with Michael, Yves and Dominic, all point to Horace coming from the Tattered universe. It also would explain his opinions of David and Laurence, among others. I should have thought of Piper -- the H *does* stand for Horace in his name, and his suicide note read "I don't like to leave messes when I go away, but if I could have cleaned up any of this mess, I wouldn't be going away. H. Beam Piper'" which is pretty conclusive. Why Moe might not want to explicate this, I'm not sure, so I think we have to put a question mark next to it. And hm. I guess I could see the author of Paratime in this role. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Impudite of Secrets -- or Mercurian of Revelation (candidate for the Word of Obscurity) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:22:10 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> John the Baptist, he ain't. (But he *is* Cadre, among other things.) At 11:10 AM -0400 8/29/01, Whistling in the Dark wrote: >I should have thought of Piper -- the H *does* stand for Horace in >his name, Actually, two sources I've found since, looking up material on Piper, suggest that the H. stood for "Henry," while a third affirms "Horace," so it's somewhat in doubt as to which it is. Which is Piper all over. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Impudite of Secrets -- or Mercurian of Revelation (candidate for the Word of Obscurity) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 12:24:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Benjamin Acosta Subject: Re: IN> (fantasy) On dragons > From: Earl Wajenberg > Having dragons wandering about in human guise has a couple of nice > resonnances: > > - It's what they do a lot in "Castle Falkenstein." (And wouldn't > CF/IN make an interesting crossover, after a suitable re-write > of the Purity Crusade?) Or just getting rid of the Purity Crusade entirely. Imagine a world in where things happened differently and Uriel was slain by Beelzebub rather than the other way around. With no Purity Crusade to constrain them, the power of ethereals flourishes. And the Prince of Corruption takes advantage of this, seducing many down a dark path. With this bolstering of evil, Heaven has no choice but to help th lighter ethereals, hoping that this makeshift alliance will keep things in check. Have Oberon and The Adversary transformed into Ethereal Superiors by their allies and there you have CF/IN. Does that work? Ben, Elohite of Eli Angel of Neat Ideas ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 13:41:13 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> (fantasy) On dragons Benjamin Acosta wrote: > Or just getting rid of the Purity Crusade entirely. [...] > > Have Oberon and The Adversary transformed into Ethereal Superiors > by their allies and there you have CF/IN. Yes. Or you could get CF/IN by having the Purity Crusade called off faster -- say Blandine really puts her foot down, backed up by Eli, Jordi, and Novalis, and the Council reigns in Uriel, maybe even has him tried by Dominic. Heaven then makes nice with the Seelie Court and Auberon, while Hell backs the Adversary, but Uriel is never called up to the Higher Heavens. His continued (glowering) presence explains why even Seelie fays can't tolerate holy symbols or sacred ground. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:55:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> (fantasy) On dragons - --- Earl Wajenberg wrote: > Never heard of thunderwyrms, but if they throw lightning, > isn't that clearly connected to Jean, Archangel of > Lightning? I was thinking more the association with weather. Besides, they'd be a bit primal for Jean's taste. > Lung are associated with rain, aren't they? Janus again, > for lack of the late Oannes. Water in general, as well as air. Which clearly puts them with Janus. > What's a Piasa? Sounds like an Italian summer house. And angeletti is an Italian sports car...* A Piasa is a Native American dragon. Picture a traditional firedrake-like body with a humanoid head on it. *In joke from my first months on the list. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 The next time someones says "Talk is cheap," remind them of how much Oprah Winfrey makes. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 14:03:52 -0400 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: Re: IN> (fantasy) On dragons > Yes. Or you could get CF/IN by having the Purity Crusade called > off faster -- One thing I pondered sending to the list was a setting in which Heaven lost the Purity Crusade and Uriel was killed because the Ethereals worked together. Made the world kind of interesting looking. Each section was different depending on which diety was in charge of it. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 19:07 +0100 (BST) From: jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) Subject: Re: IN> John the Baptist, he ain't. (But he *is* Cadre, among other things.) In article <20010829105508.93593.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com>, moelane_1999@yahoo.com (Maurice Lane) wrote: > Sorry, guys: this is a deliberately obscure character, > not least because the SF author that he's based off of > is one of those people that everybody's read but > nobody's ever heard of. That took me longer than it should have; we're dealing with the Chronicler of Kalvan, aren't we? Not that I've ever actually read any of his stuff, but the CD-ROM Encyclopedia of SF with Dave "Ansible" Langford's search engine is a mighty tool. > it's not too surprising that his writeup is a little fuzzy... You get a perverted pleasure out of hiding clues in the open, don't you? - --- John Dallman jgd@cix.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 14:24:49 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> John the Baptist, he ain't. (But he *is* Cadre, among other things.) At 7:07 PM +0100 8/29/01, John Dallman wrote: > > it's not too surprising that his writeup is a little fuzzy... > >You get a perverted pleasure out of hiding clues in the open, don't you? > Little Fuzzy. Dear Christ, now I have to hurt someone. Badly. I think it has to be Moe. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Impudite of Secrets -- or Mercurian of Revelation (candidate for the Word of Obscurity) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:45:28 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> On Lightning Michael Walton wrote: > > --- Earl Wajenberg wrote: > > Never heard of thunderwyrms, but if they throw lightning, > > isn't that clearly connected to Jean, Archangel of > > Lightning? > > I was thinking more the association with weather. > Besides, they'd be a bit primal for Jean's taste. This brings up a feature of Jean that I think gets neglected. He IS primal. He's Lightning. He's also the patron of science and technology only (1) by a metaphorical extension of his Word similar to the extension of Flowers to peace and mercy, and (2) because someone had to take up the slack when Raphael died. But before and beyond all the cerebral stuff, Jean is the Cosmic Zap. If, roughly speaking, David, Oannes, Janus, and Gabriel are solid, liquid, gas, and plasma, Jean is force field. This side of Jean might be clearer in a low-tech setting, such as an historical one. In such a setting, Lightning angels might not be pushing the existing technical envelope much, but be more militant, dealing in thunderbolts, ball lightning, auroral displays, etc., and working closely with Janus's angels in controlling the weather. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:30:50 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Fwd: Re: IN> Next Month's Theme >Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:13:03 -0500 >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Admin request of type /\bunsubscribe\b/i at line 5 > >From: "Jo Hart" >Subject: Re: IN> Next Month's Theme >Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 15:48:38 +0000 > > >>Hm. >> >>I'd rather not go into why, but I'd be unable to participate in such >>a thing, and in fact would likely u n s u b scribe during it. > >Got a s u b mission in? :) > > > >jo > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:31:30 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Fwd: Re: IN> Next Month's Theme >Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:13:17 -0500 >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Admin request of type /\bunsubscribe\b/i at line 3 > >From: "Jeffery Watkins" >Subject: Re: IN> Next Month's Theme >Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:33:55 -0400 > >Hm. >I'd rather not go into why, but I'd be unable to participate in such >a thing, and in fact would likely u n s u b scribe during it. This is not >a reason *not* to do IN Space, but I'd vote for almost anything else >first. > > >Then let's not. I am all for everyone to have fun with the list. I certainly >am and would not want it spoiled enough that anyone should feel they would >have to leave/u n s u b scribe. > >Jeffery > > >> > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 21:28:14 +0000 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> On Lightning >This brings up a feature of Jean that I think gets neglected. >He IS primal. He's Lightning. He's also the patron of >science and technology only (1) by a metaphorical extension >of his Word similar to the extension of Flowers to peace and >mercy, and (2) because someone had to take up the slack when >Raphael died. It's very difficult to think of the words "Elohite" and "primal" in the same sentence. Jordi, Novalis, and Janus are emphatically primal; Gabriel can be but is restrained by being the prophet of God's will. The word implies the preeminence of instinct, as opposed to thought; while Jean may have an elemental Word, his Elohite nature requires that instinct and elemental nature take second place to thought, conscious decision, and will. >This side of Jean might be clearer in a low-tech setting, such >as an historical one. In such a setting, Lightning angels >might not be pushing the existing technical envelope much, but >be more militant, dealing in thunderbolts, ball lightning, >auroral displays, etc., and working closely with Janus's angels >in controlling the weather. This, I like a lot. Servitors of Lightning get neglected when combat is discussed -- but read some of those Servitor attunements! Not only can they fry you to a crisp, they can turn your own weapons against you if they're close enough. And re: historical settings, think about all those neat legends about angels joining a line of archers, shooting lightning bolts or bolts of fire instead of arrows ... Janet Anderson (Worldcon tomorrow!) * * * * Beware the anger of a patient bard. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:21:23 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> On Lightning >>This brings up a feature of Jean that I think gets neglected. >>He IS primal. He's Lightning. He's also the patron of >>science and technology only (1) by a metaphorical extension >>of his Word similar to the extension of Flowers to peace and >>mercy, and (2) because someone had to take up the slack when >>Raphael died. > >It's very difficult to think of the words "Elohite" and "primal" in the same >sentence. Jordi, Novalis, and Janus are emphatically primal; Gabriel can be >but is restrained by being the prophet of God's will. The word implies the >preeminence of instinct, as opposed to thought; while Jean may have an >elemental Word, his Elohite nature requires that instinct and elemental >nature take second place to thought, conscious decision, and will. They can combine. Realize that Lightning doesn't strike continually, constantly... there is a long, slow build-up between bolts. Translated into Elohite thinking, this is analogous to: 1. Wait. 2. Gather information. 3. Think about it. 4. Think some more. 5. See if the situation changes. 6. Think about that. 7. Decide whether the situation ABSOLUTELY calls for action. 8. If so, act. Swiftly, suddenly, without hesitation or doubt, bringing to bear all the force you can muster. An Elohite who had decided, after long and careful contemplation, that such behavior was conducive to successful prosecution of one's ends, could make a good candidate for the Word of Lightning. Another consideration for the Seraphim Council (I forget -- was Jean awarded his Word by God, or later?) could be that such a destructive force would best be placed in the hands of a deliberate angel who would use it only in carefully-reasoned ways. In summary, I argue that the nature of Lightning is not to strike continually, a la Fire, but to act in targetted, focused bursts, reasonable behavior for an Elohite. Regarding primality in general among Elohim, remember that they had to start *somewhere*. The first Elohim didn't have Aristotle and Pascal to back up their arguments. ;^) >Janet Anderson >(Worldcon tomorrow!) Lastly, I refer any interested parties to a writeup of an (undoubtedly small) sub-organization within Lightning's ranks, dedicated to serving the primal aspects of the Word, called the Bolts. I posted it to the list on Mar 9, 2001, so it's hopefully in the Archives. William ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:30:43 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Valefor's Daughter >Incidentally, what's a MacGuffin? :) A physical or conceptual object intended to drive the plot. If the boss informs the PCs that there's a demon of Technology on the loose with a VapuTech ray gun capable of turning bats into giant bat-soldiers, the ray gun is the MacGuffin. If the story is about quarantining an escaped carrier of a Jordite plague (and we're going to be *talking* about that later, Mr. Archangel), the carrier (or possibly the plague) is the MacGuffin. William ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 19:04:02 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Next Month's Theme >Does someone want to throw one of those free web polls up and collect >votes, to decide which of these we do? I volunteer to collect votes. I don't have the scripting skills to do it on the Web, but I have sufficient bandwidth to take votes by email. Send me an email (that's wjk150@email.psu.edu) with "September Theme Vote" in the title. So far, the list of nominations seems to be, in no particular order: Jordi's Wild Kingdom -- Attunements, Servitors, stories, and other items to flesh out Jordi as a Superior. Successors -- The current Superiors step down or otherwise are replaced by newcomers with the different takes on the same Words, or similar Words. Jeanathon -- Gadgets, Servitors, archaic Attunements, and other pieces for use with the Archangel of Lightning. IN Science Fiction -- In Nomine in Cyberpunk, hard SF, or space opera; looks at the Words of Superiors in a futuristic setting. I hope I haven't overlooked anyone's contribution -- feel free to campa- well, tiptoe quietly around AA Beth, and campaign in a genteel fashion for another write-in if you so desire. I will tally votes received until 00:00 ET September 1st, and announce the results shortly thereafter. Votes will be kept anonymous. I will vote once myself, unless somebody would rather I did not. William ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2351 ********************************