in_nomine-digest Friday, September 7 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2363 In this digest: Re: IN> Peter - Part 2 Re: IN> Blackouts Re: IN> NNN Special Bullitin: The death of... Re: IN>Seraphim, Flowers, and Politics Re: IN> IN [Successors] Serendipity, Mercurian Archangel of Light-part 2 Re: IN> IN/WOD heresy IN> IN/WoD IN> Re: Successors: War, Part 1 IN> IN/WoD IN> possible correction Re: IN> Blandine vs Beleth Re: IN> NNN Special Bullitin: The death of... IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2362 Re: IN> possible correction Re: IN> Peter - Part 2 Re: IN> [Successors] And The Bands Played On: Faust (Prologue) IN> Re: Peter Re: IN> The Demon Prince of Sleep Re: IN> Successors: War, Part 1 - The Infection Re: IN> Successors: War, Part 1 - The Infection IN> The Sandman Re: IN> IN/WOD Re: IN> Successors: War, Part 1 - The Infection IN> Re: Peter Re: IN> IN/WOD heresy Re: IN> Re: Peter Re: IN> Re: Peter IN> [Successors] Inheritance IN> Successors: War, Part 2 - The Healing ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 05:58:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Peter - Part 2 - --- Richard C Hanton-Rutherford wrote: > When I come up with these things, I pay more attention to > the concept than the mechanics - they can always be fine > tuned later. True enough. > With hindsight, 1 essence probably is too > little, but I disagree that Heavenly Judgement isn't as > nasty as this. What's going to bother a Demon more, a > charged up mortal, or a repeated assault that lands > without fail every turn, and doesn't stop until the > victim has fled or died? Also a good point. > How about if the cost remains the same, but the effect > can't raise a primary stat above 8? I'd let it go to 10, since that is the max for Humans. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 The next time someones says "Talk is cheap," remind them of how much Oprah Winfrey makes. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 06:02:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Blackouts - --- Richard C Hanton-Rutherford wrote: > Is there a demon of blackouts? Not until you write it up, rafiki. 0:> ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 The next time someones says "Talk is cheap," remind them of how much Oprah Winfrey makes. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 13:04:09 +0000 From: "Fallen Seraph" Subject: Re: IN> NNN Special Bullitin: The death of... >From: Earl Wajenberg >What was that, pray tell? cardinal someone-or-other, who is in charge of the catholic church in britain, has stated that christianity is no longer a driving force behind british society, and is dying through lack of interest. he cites the general philosophy of self-gratification and selfishness above all else as the main cause of this decline. Waytogo Nybbas and Andre! You've got the moral minority on the run! - -FallenSeraph What? Is Man merely a mistake of God's? Or is God merely a mistake of Man's? http://eternalcity.freeservers.com ICQ: 110193631 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 09:08:04 -0400 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: Re: IN>Seraphim, Flowers, and Politics Thanks Charles! New things to throw at your little Seraph! *innocent smile* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 06:11:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> IN [Successors] Serendipity, Mercurian Archangel of Light-part 2 Egads, these are powerful Attunements. Then again, it's a powerful Word. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 The next time someones says "Talk is cheap," remind them of how much Oprah Winfrey makes. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 06:17:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> IN/WOD heresy - --- Richard C Hanton-Rutherford wrote: > A good idea, but I think you'll need more than "some > tweaks". Massive understatement. > Werewolves will be the easiset thing to > convert. Really? I would've given that honor to vampires and mummies. >IN > canon (particularly the Liber Canticorum) makes it very > clear that magic doesn't work, which leaves Mages > buggered. In fact, Mages would really mess up the IN > world, as they have powers that supposedly only Eli > should have. Or you could do Mages as Crossbreed Sorcerers; the bit of Celestial/Ethereal heritage is the Mage's Avatar. This allows them to get Sorcery without receiving an infernal Force _and_ explains why they naturally have six or more Forces. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 The next time someones says "Talk is cheap," remind them of how much Oprah Winfrey makes. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: 07 Sep 2001 14:56:42 +0100 From: "Richard C Hanton-Rutherford" Subject: IN> IN/WoD Michael - I said that Werewolves would be the easiest to convert because they don't already exist in the IN world. There is therefore a space for them, into which a large portion of WoD detals can be translated. Mummies and Vampires, on the other hand, already exist in very different forms. WoD Mummies have practically nothing in common with their IN counterparts, while Samingan vamps would likely be seen as demonic impostors by the Kindred. It would also raise the problem of comparative power levels between Songs/Disciplines/Spheres/Gifts etc. It can be hard enough in WoD as it is to work out what happen when x creature uses y power. Richie And the demon of Blackouts is on the way. - -- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 09:00:06 -0500 From: "Adam Ensinger" Subject: IN> Re: Successors: War, Part 1 Amanda Kilgore wrote: OK, first off, please be patient with me. I had convinced myself not to s u bmit this little project to the list at all, but Cameron's trying to convince me I should. I apologize in advance for my poor writing style. The backstory is going to have to be in several parts, as it's getting longer with every minute I think about it. It's also still being written, but I should be done in a few days. You were kidding about the poor witing style, right? I don't know about anyone else, but I thought this was Good Stuff. Definitely looking forward to seeing how it all pans out. Cameron: keep twisting her arm and make he post the rest of this :) Adam Ensinger http://www.adamensinger.com "There he goes, one of God's own prototypes. A high powered mutant of some kind not even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, too rare to die." Hunter S. Thompson - "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" ------------------------------ Date: 07 Sep 2001 15:34:04 +0100 From: "Richard C Hanton-Rutherford" Subject: IN> IN/WoD I've just had another thought (a pretty obvious one, maybe, but I never said I was the quickest). In an IN/WoD crossover world, Baali, Nephandi and the Celestial Chorus are going to get pretty interesting. Richie - -- ------------------------------ Date: 07 Sep 2001 15:36:34 +0100 From: "Richard C Hanton-Rutherford" Subject: IN> possible correction Celestial Chorus - or choir, or whatever the're called. You know, the Mage tradition with divine overtones. Bloody White Wolf names are impossible to remember. Richie - -- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 11:12:51 -0400 From: "Jeffery Watkins" Subject: Re: IN> Blandine vs Beleth [raised eyebrow] Not in Sorcerer's World, you'll note. Right. I missed that. Ooops and thank you James! Jeffery _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 08:46:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> NNN Special Bullitin: The death of... - --- Fallen Seraph wrote: > Waytogo Nybbas and Andre! You've got the moral minority > on the run! Hmph. I'm almost offended by that. Just remember, the last time Christianity saw open institutionalized persecution, it rose to become the dominant religion of Europe. Which suggests (just to get it back on topic) that the Tribulation is a necessary ingredient of Heaven's final victory at Armageddon. Kind of a Davidian strengthening thing. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 The next time someones says "Talk is cheap," remind them of how much Oprah Winfrey makes. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 10:51:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Benjamin Acosta Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2362 Quoting in_nomine-digest : > From: Charles E Smith > Subject: Re: IN> [Successors] And the Bands Played On: A Post > Armageddon Campaign Setting > > > > Excellent setting! I liked the idea of damned souls rising up to > provide > a new challenge to the survivors of Hell. In a world where there is > only > shades of black, how then could anyone make moral choices? Moral choices are not high on anyone's agenda right now. The nature of the conflict now is different. Whereas before The War was a battle between Selflessness and Selfishness, now the dichotomy is between Freedom and Enlightened Self Interest vs Authoritarianism and Oppression. And when the big good guys are gone, gray can look pretty darn white next to black. >Question: > If > Hell is split between the Enlightened and the Traditionalists (with > the > neutral exceptions of Malphas and Alaemon), how is Hell managed? > Before, > the Game handled internal security. Nobody (except Kronos, maybe) > liked > him, but Hell was theoretically allied against the Host. Now that > Lucifer's gone off to play God and there is no Host to fight, how is > order maintained? Do Gamesters still kick in doors all over Hell > regardless of which Prince rules there or are there diplomatic issues > between Enlightened and Traditionalist territories? Hell is basically split down the middle, like East and West Berlin during the Cold War. In Traditionalist territory, Asmodeus leads the Infernal Council and Gamesters have the same authority they've always had. In Enlightened Territory, any loyal Gamesters who still remain are in hostile territory, and best keep a very low profile. Think the KGB in the Soviet Union and KGB agents in the United States as far as parallels are concerned. I'll eventually be posting the geopolitical status of Hell, which will elaborate more on the situation. But first, I've got some Superiors to write. Ben, Elohite of Eli Angel of Neat Ideas ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 08:53:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> possible correction - --- Richard C Hanton-Rutherford wrote: > Celestial Chorus - or choir, or whatever the're called. > You know, the Mage tradition with divine overtones. > Bloody White Wolf names are impossible to remember. Not for us card-carrying Camarilla members. It is indeed Celestial Chorus. Imagine how obnoxious they'd be if they had objective proof that the One was real. Of course, the Dreamspeakers would come right back and point to their Ethereal patrons the Loa, so it evens out. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 The next time someones says "Talk is cheap," remind them of how much Oprah Winfrey makes. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 13:38:21 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> Peter - Part 2 On 6 Sep 2001, Richard C Hanton-Rutherford wrote: > How about if the cost remains the same, but the effect can't raise a primary stat above 8? That's a bit better, yeah... makes it less of a munchkin thing and more of a "strength where you most need it, my son" sort of thing. > I'm also surprised that this was the attunement singled out for comment. I was sure that people were going to have a go at the apostle attunement! Naw, that one's not overpowered at all; actually, it's rather weak, IMO. Now, you forgot to include Peter's normal Chance of Invocation (I'm assuming he can be invoked), but let's say he had a "4 or less". Anyone can get a +1 invocation modifier with barely any effort, and then let's say they spend 6 Essence on the invocation. See? They already have an 11 or less to invoke Peter. So this attunement just makes it a little more of a sure thing with a little less effort. Frankly, since Soldiers only HAVE 6 Essence total, I'd imagine they'd feel a little slighted by this attunement... "So, what you're saying is that I get the ability to call on you for help... as long as I haven't spent ANY Essence at all in the war against Hell that day? Huh... not bloody likely." - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! "You there, stop teasing that negroe, you ruffians," I called out in my best dignified and indignant tones. They laughed at me, so naturally I shot the young mountebanks. Shot the negroe as well, they're always causing trouble. -- ICEKNIFE ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 13:04:15 -0400 From: "Jeffery Watkins" Subject: Re: IN> [Successors] And The Bands Played On: Faust (Prologue) This is almost too perfect. I have a character called Faust as an opponent for the PCs and this is so much what he would do. I also enjoyed it as a story. Very well done. Jeffery _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: 07 Sep 2001 19:28:55 +0100 From: "Richard C Hanton-Rutherford" Subject: IN> Re: Peter In the discussion over Peter someone, I think it was Michael, but to be honest I can't remember, put forward the opinion that Peter would favour Judaism over the other traditions, while my version showed him as a Catholic. Allow me to explain... In life Peter was, indeed, a Jew. He followed Jesus as a practicing Jew, and continued to observe the laws and prophets throughout his time as a disciple. Before the Ascension, however, the resurrected form of his friend and mentor, whom he believed to be the Son of God, entrusted him with the responsibility of watching over his community of believers. That kind of thing focusses a man's priorities. Peter, of course, remained a Jew throughout his life - the fledgling Christian community were still all practicing Jews at that point. After his death, however, he watched over that community in a variety of vessels. He saw the Jews persecute and martyr the followers of Jesus (many of whom were people he had known personally), he heard the early Christian sect (for sect they were, back then) accused of heres, cannibalism and necromancy. Eventually, he saw the Jews cast the followers of Jesus (who had, after all, come to aid the Jews who had so rejected him) out of the Synagogue, declaring them blasphemers, and worse. Even after this, he still tended to think of himself as a Jew. But the things he sought in Judaism, primarily God' grace, seemd, over the centuries, to be less present amongst the orthodox children of David. His involvement with the Catholic Church was formed after Constantine's conversion, and strengthened many times over the years. The Catholic Church thought of itself as a direct extension of the group Jesus himself had left Peter in charge of, and the First Pope was inclined to agree. He had spent scores of lifetimes watching that community grow, strengthening their resolve. Though he still considers himself to be a true member of God's chosen, his perspective as to what that consists of has changed. Catholicism is the true Judaism - in their pr ayers and rituals is revealed the true meaning of the laws and prophets. Hope that answers the question. Richie H-R - -- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 14:52:58 -0400 From: "Jeffery Watkins" Subject: Re: IN> The Demon Prince of Sleep Its not just good, its GREEAAATTT! Really, this is a marvelous celestial. Good job translating to Superior status. Jeffery _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 16:13:59 -0400 From: "Jeffery Watkins" Subject: Re: IN> Successors: War, Part 1 - The Infection Wow! That was a great beginning! More, more the crowd cries out (well, at least I do). I loved the characterizations, everyone seemed to flow, even the unnamed angels were very distinct. Jeffery _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 16:42:06 -0400 From: Amanda Kilgore Subject: Re: IN> Successors: War, Part 1 - The Infection Thank you, both. Yes, I am serious about the poor writing, I'm very unhappy with the first half of what was sent. Especially when I read the phenomenal work coming out of people on this list... I don't want to name names for fear of leaving someone out, but I know I'm just a leetle bitty fish here. Working on converting part 2 now, removing curly-quotes and all that jazz. I dare not risk the Wrath of Beth (tm), after all. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 16:49:16 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> The Sandman Someone asked me to post this onlist and thus here it is! Comments appreciated as always. "Let us give thanks to he who walks between the rows" - -Children of the Corn III Inspiration by a very special Star Trek episode. The Sandman Habbalah of Nightmare Duke of Children's Frights The Demon of Children's Sleep Cor-2 Strength-4 Agility-4 Eth-4 Intelligence-8 Precision-8 Cel-5 Will-12 Per-8 Vessel: Old Puritanical man 4/ Servants: 1 to 10 human children (some incredibly aged or dreamshades) Artifacts: Bag of Sand 6/ (will transport any who fail in a willpower check against him to a nightmare realm) Skills: Detect Lies 3/, Emote 4/, Fighting 3/, Christian Lore 3/, Children's literatue 4/, Children's Psychology 4/, Langauges (French 3/, Latin 3/, German 4/), Savoir Faire 3/ Songs: Song of Charm (Celestial 3/), Song of Dreams (Ethereal 4/, Celestial 4/), Song of Entropy (Corporeal 3/, Ethereal 3/, Celestial 4/), Song of Light (Ethereal 3/) Attunements: Habbalah of Nightmares, Impudite of Nightmares, Dream Walking, Terror, Knight of Restlessness, Baron of Screams, Sleep Now, Ride Mortal, Duke of Childrens' Frights Sleep Now and Ride Mortal function as described in the write up of the Demon Prince of Sleep Duke of Children's Frights is a volentary power which maximizes all reaction rolls to the positive with children Word Forces: 8 (Only dreams of children's evil) Rites * Compell a child to the service of Hell (+2) The Sandman is a figure that is loathed and despised by even some demons because of the Habbalah's restless love for human children and the transformation of them into monsters. The Sandman's obsession with such descends from his belief that age is the key factor in determining when human beings become divorced from God. It is thus an exceptionally holy act for an angel to slay a child when he is at his most divorced from the physical world and most tied to the realm of that unreal. In effect Beleth has played across the Habbalah's dementia that the making of children to think like Habbalah is very similar to making them like angels and sparing them a great deal of suffering. The fact that the Sandman has survived more than twenty five thousand years with the same M.O. despite extensive efforts by Blandine, Uriel (later Laurence), and now Christopher to destroy this creature is a testament to his skill at surviving and accomplishing his mission. Children approached by the Sandman discover their "invisible friend" to be quite the attractive figure who is glad to lead them through the nightmare realms of Beleth to safety but instead of trying to protect him from the horrors the Sandman tries to show children that the "monsters" are not so bad after all. To an underdeveloped mind of a child the nightmares that other suffer can be fairly easily convinced that they "deserve it" or that a creature which eats babies is actually a big teddy bear. Especially if the monster is so afraid of the Sandman that it goes along with slavery to a child for as long as the Demonic Habbalah wishes. The Sandman then leads the child through the trials to join the brotherhood of the Night just like he would any adult and they are usually by this point demured to violence and horror that they do their actions. The horrors the Sandman can inflict if they do not do as he says are so traumatizing that many children buckle under his wills to fufill their fates far more readily than an adult would. The Sandman despite his age and power is not actually an extremely powerful figure and has suffered terribly in several battles with vehement angels (particularly Malakim). The Sandman's power remains in his ability to bend and twist reality around those weakest to resist his whims. To be perfectly honest the Habbalah is also a coward and there are few things more sickening than for an to be assaulted by waves of six to twelve year olds standing between them and a demon with their lives. It is this readiness to sacrafice them along with the monsters he as a Duke of Beleth can command that has thus far gauranteed his survival. - -Charlemagne _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 16:54:53 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> IN/WOD At 11:01 AM +0100 9/7/01, Richard C Hanton-Rutherford wrote: >And another thing... Both IN and WOD put forward theories of the "ultimate >reality", which are not compatible with each other. The world background for >Mage is "the way things are", ecause Mages are awakened to the true nature of >reality, but it doesn't fit with IN, which also claims to tell things the way >they are. Spoilsport. But really, if you take the Mage route, then clearly Yahweh _was_ an ethereal who somehow gained power. Or maybe He was a _dream-shade_ Mage... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 16:52:38 -0400 From: Daniel Sauve Subject: Re: IN> Successors: War, Part 1 - The Infection On Fri, 07 Sep 2001 16:42:06 -0400, Amanda Kilgore wrote: >Thank you, both. Yes, I am serious about the poor writing, I'm very unhappy >with the first half of what was sent. Especially when I read the phenomenal >work coming out of people on this list... I don't want to name names for fear >of leaving someone out, but I know I'm just a leetle bitty fish here. Working >on converting part 2 now, removing curly-quotes and all that jazz. I dare not >risk the Wrath of Beth (tm), after all. :-) Hon, there's a thin line between being humble and beating yourself up. That piece was beyond wonderful. people enjoyed it. There's always something you can change, yes. But that attitude that whatever I wrote was poor kept me from getting paid to write for years. So when people show they appreciated something, say thank you. Accept that you can write something worth thanks. And instead of obsessing on this piece, focus on making every piece you wriite a little better. That will actually give you forward momenteum to get better. And it'll make Bladine smile. - -- Travelling the Firth of Fifth, I remain Ravenshadow Delirious Raven, AKA Daniel Sauve http://www.livejournal.com/users/deleriousraven/ AIM: dreamfylerahs /Yahoo!: ahsdreamflyer /Odigo: Delirious /ICQ # 53874855 http://www.studiofoglio.com/ - -- Any given program, when running, needs debugging. Any debugged program is obsolete. - -- [I am Sigfreud J. Ascii, The Living Sig. (I have my shots.) ] 7517 sigs made. ------------------------------ Date: 07 Sep 2001 21:05:27 +0100 From: "Richard C Hanton-Rutherford" Subject: IN> Re: Peter The way I see it, there's two main reasons why the Apostle attunement isn't totally pointless. To be fair, it may have a little to do with personal aesthetics (again) but I tend to see invoking a Superior as a personal, ritualised endeavour which takes a certain degree of time. It doesn't have to be a big ritual complete with animal sacrifices (I'm sure Jordi would love that), but the Servitor has to put a bit of effort in, and make some preparations. I would personally apply a negative penalty to someone who hadn't made some kind of effort - normal invocation should be like making an appointment with the boss. The attunement on the other hand, is the power to say "Peter, attend me now!" in any situation, and have the First Pope materialise in all his glory. Also, unless the soldier has been a _complete_ dick, Peter will likely grant his boon, with no check digit required. The second reason, another personal one, is that I don't allow soldiers to invoke a Superior without angelic assistance. I don't know if there's any canon regarding this, so I'm afraid it's something of a house rule - I like to keep a solid distinction between the human and the divine, and the idea of soldiers calling up Michael bothers me a tad. Peter, however, alays has the time for his human servants, having spent 2 millenia as one himself. It may seem that such personal preferences are inappropriate to ths list, but I disagree. The whole point of this is surely that we all put our own interpretations of the game forward, and then happily reinterpret everyone else's ideas. If you want to use Peter in your game and you don't like this attunement (or any of the others, for that matter), feel free to simply get rid of it. If you do wish to keep it, however, I would suggest one slight adjustment - instead of costing 6 essence, it costs all of the apostle's remaining essence, which has to be at least 1 point. The idea is that its a last shot weapon - the soldier or saint can use all of his essence for fighting, and save one point to summon Peter as a last-resort; but if he uses it while he's still got some left, it'll clear him out. I hope this clears it up a little. Don't you just love watching an idea grow up in public? (RIchie grins feebly, collapsing over his keyboard) RIchie H-R - -- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 14:30:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> IN/WOD heresy - --- Omentide wrote: > This is part of a IN WOD crossover concept I am working > on. I'm taking the > view that firstly the mythology of both needs to be > merged, though this > does result in some tweaks to both. I like. Considering the first-person bias in WW books (and the fact that _nobody_ really knows what's going on), this mythology integrates the two different universes as smoothly as can be expected. And, as someone who has played a Gangrel, I rather liked the reference to Enoia. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 The next time someones says "Talk is cheap," remind them of how much Oprah Winfrey makes. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 14:32:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Re: Peter - --- Richard C Hanton-Rutherford wrote: > In the discussion over Peter someone, I think it was > Michael, but to be honest I can't remember, put forward > the opinion that Peter would favour Judaism over the > other traditions, while my version showed him as a > Catholic. Allow me to explain... [snip] > Hope that answers the question. Indeed it does. Danke schoen. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 The next time someones says "Talk is cheap," remind them of how much Oprah Winfrey makes. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 21:11:06 +0000 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Peter >He saw the Jews persecute and martyr the followers of Jesus When was this, precisely? I think you'll find it was the romans who did the persecution and martyring. jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 16:08:22 -0500 From: EDG Subject: IN> [Successors] Inheritance He lit up the clouded sky, burning more brightly than the landscape around him. "I am the End of Everything," he snarled, the words hissing through the hot night air, "Destruction incarnate. Fear my flame, children of God, for you will have no time to remember it." Belial swung his firebrand, Hope Shattered, and from it a wave of fire leapt, catching a young tree and sending it to cinders. Novalis stood a league distant, at the edge of the blazing forest, her eyes filled with tears, even the undergrowth that sprang from each of her steps holding only an instant against the Hellfire that encroached upon the final woodland. "Moloch!" she cried, and though three miles distant, Belial heard clearly, startled by the use of his elder name. "This is enough! You have made your-" She was interrupted, his words carrying just as far. "Never! I will have my victory over God's world. His creatures will scream in Hell for the sin of living. My punishing flame purifies the land, that Lucifer's foot might step upon it without being defiled." Novalis spat, thorny vines beginning to grow around her ankles. "Do you really think that burning the world will solve anything? What will become of you when there is nothing left to burn? Do you think that Lucifer will want to step upon barren dirt?" "Fool. It is not the planet I wish to destroy. It is you, and your fellow quaking angels." Belial raised his sword again, and the clouds parted where it pointed, the sun blazing through and scorching the ground around him. "I have taken the power of Gabriel, and command the sun. I have driven your fair Laurence into the dust, and his blade answers to me." He swung Hope Shattered meaningfully, and Novalis looked down. "The idiot commanding our armies was unfit to purge the world of your ilk. I have done what he cannot. And I will proceed. Look how already your domain shrieks my name." Indeed, behind Belial phantom hedges were growing, all thorns and venom and evil. The vines about Novalis had grown to her waist. "I defy you, Moloch," she shouted unnecessarily. "My followers defy you. My fellows defy you. My fallen friends defy you, Lord of Fire. You will not live past this day." Indeed, as she spoke, the clouds closed again, and Hope Shattered howled, twisting in Belial's hand. Novalis reached to her waist, grasping a hilt made of smooth, woven climbers, and pulled her own blade, the Light Reflected. Her armor continued to grow past her breast, coating her in spined creeping vinery. Belial laughed, and wrestled Hope Shattered into his control once more. "Then defy me. Your screams will be beautiful. Soon the world will know that Flowers is dead." He stepped, and she stepped, and they met without further words, each knowing that this was their last fight. Novalis fought well - she always had - but she knew without thinking that Belial fought better, and with more recent practice. Still, the spirits of the archangels he had destroyed fought with her, and the Light Reflected was not a blade to be ignored. It hissed through the air, gleaming green despite the dust-filtered light, catching the Lord of Fire atop his codpiece. He growled angrily and lashed out, Hope Shattered slicing into her shoulder. She stumbled back, and Belial drove in, Hope Shattered blazing as it pierced her breast, driving through until the hilt of the once-holy sword rested against the fiber of her armor. "Thus falls Flowers," said Belial through gritted teeth, and it was only when he moved to withdraw the firebrand that he noticed the blade of the Light Reflected, its point dripping ichor as it protruded from his spine, the last stroke of a grievously-wounded Novalis. Seeing this, he gasped, and grinned. "Thus," he spoke slowly, "falls Fire." He toppled, the death-grin still on his face, and landed aside the body of the Archangel of Flowers. Slowly the fire in his soul consumed his body, traversing the blade of Hope Shattered and setting Novalis alight as well. As the Archangels began to arrive, they noticed a plant growing from the ground where the two masterless blades crossed. Quickly the stem engulfed the swords, thickening and solidifying into a bud. As moments passed, it cracked, blooming into a great rose, the edges of its petals flickering with bright flame. In the center lay a girl, wreathed in flowers, sound asleep, clasping the swords in her arms. Only Yves, at the rear of the crowd, dared smile. "I see," he said quietly enough that the entire Host could hear. "She never said. She was, of course, a perennial." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 17:07:19 -0400 From: Amanda Kilgore Subject: IN> Successors: War, Part 2 - The Healing This wasn't cut at a good place, but the only other places I could find were either too short or too long. Results of my Armageddon, coming up. And for the record, I had decided what I did to Beleth and Blandine *before* the discussion opened up here. :-) *** Michael woke up with a splitting headache. With a groan, he reached for his head, and was surprised when his arms refused to move. Or his legs, for that matter. Or anything. Why in the three planes was he bound to his bed? No, not even his bed. "Ungh. What the..." A cool hand found his shoulder. "Easy there." "Wha... Doxas? What's going on?" "What do you remember?" Michael paused, considering what he did remember, and it wasn't enough. "I... I remember fighting Baal. I remember finishing him off, at last, and..." he frowned. "That's the last I remember. What happened, why in the Upper Heavens am I tied DOWN like this," he struggled vainly against the bonds, "and who gave you that cut?" Doxas looked at him sadly. "You did." That stopped his rant. "What?" "Michael... when you killed Baal, it somehow infected you. His dark energies, they think, they were suddenly a part of you, and it sent you into a rage. You struck out at whatever, whoever was in your way. They say... they say you were on the brink of Falling." Michael choked down a few choice oaths. "By all that is holy. My own loyals?" Doxas nodded. "They tried to keep you from chasing to earth or farther, to keep you from becoming the enemy, while they sent the Wheels to get help." Tears welled in the old Archangel's eyes. "How many did I..." "You sent a few dozen into Trauma, soul-killed three, and wounded about a dozen more." He strained against the bonds again. "I have to go to them, I have to try to help them." "I can't remove those, I'm afraid. They said it would take three Archangels together to release them." Michael sighed. "They?" "The remaining Council." "Remaining? What happened, the war..." "You should rest, you took quite a beating yourself." Michael growled at her. "Whether the Hyena likes it or not, I am still War. What happened?" "The quick summary, we won, but it's not over. We sealed the surviving Princes in the core of Hell, David's troops are scouring for the followers who fled before the seal was finished. Along with Baal, Belial, Alaemon, Asmodeus, Haagenti, Mammon, Malphas, and Valefor are dead. Nybbas and Fleurity have been reduced to gremlins. Beleth is missing, we've got Vapula and Kobal, the rest are sealed away." "Got how?" "Ah, captured and pleading Redemption. The Council's still arguing over what to do with them, and the others." Michael's jaw clenched. "Others?" "There's a large group of demons that surrendered and are begging a chance to redeem. At least they're keeping Dominic's people busy." "How many did we lose?" Doxas sighed. "Gabriel, Litheroy, and Marc are dead. Janus was severely wounded and knocked into Trauma. Christopher and Jean lost enough Forces to lose Archangel status. Blandine is missing." "Laurence and David?" "Laurence has a new haircut thanks to your axe, David is battered but strong." "I attacked Laurence too?" "He tried to stop you. I think the bruises have healed by now, although his views were shaken." Michael sank into the bed. "Who stopped me?" "A few of your Masters held on till the bitter end, hurt you enough to slow you down and delay you until Laurence and David arrived. David was the one who finally stopped you. If your jaw still hurts, that's why. Novalis and Eli teamed up to get the discord out of you..." The door opened on that cue, letting the two Archangels just mentioned in. "You were quite a handful, you know," Eli said with a gentle smile. "How are you feeling?" "Grandmother of a headache, but I'd really like to take a walk," Michael said bitterly. Novalis murmured something to Doxas, who nodded and left in search of something. "Michael, you must know... some of Baal's poisoned energy was wrapped tightly around your own. You've probably lost a few Forces." Michael considered, then nodded. "Some, yes. You both did what you had to, and you did well. I... thank you." Dominic swept into the room and studied Michael, who was simply glaring at him. "I suppose you're enjoying this," Michael sniped. "While I know you do not wish to believe it, I am not." Dominic nodded to the other two Archangels, and they joined him in seizing Michael's bonds. The clasps opened with a quiet pop, and Michael was quickly on his feet. "Thank you," Michael offered, although it seemed to pain him. "Now let me get back to..." "No." "Excuse me?" "Michael, you are under house arrest for what you have done. The Council has agreed to let you walk in Heaven, under the condition that you are guarded at all times. You will stand Trial as soon as we make a decision about our two renegade Princes." Michael's jaw worked silently for a moment, aching slightly. This could not be happening again. "How can you do this?" Dominic's jaw set. "Perhaps you should go visit the survivors of your rampage. See those cowering in Trauma, those in the healing centers fighting for their lives, and the bodies where they lie in state. Your own angels, Michael. Go ask them why I must do this." ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2363 ********************************