in_nomine-digest Saturday, September 15 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2374 In this digest: Re: IN> Arcangel's Adventure Re: IN> Re: Christian values Re: IN> christian values IN> David's troubedour Re: IN> What with one thing and another, this subject came up last night Re: IN> What with one thing and another, this subject came up last night IN> Iron Rev IV: Radio Free Heaven ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 16:38:59 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Arcangel's Adventure At 1:47 AM -0400 9/14/01, Daniel Sauve wrote: >Beth, you amaze me. Walter, you are incredibly lucky. Pyramid subscribers are >in for a treat this week. Thanks. Now, if only I had some _players_ around for weekdays, who don't mind a kid... - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. arcangel is nursing a trout with ARMS! ARMS that reach out and try to pound the keyboard! You say "And teeth. Ow." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 17:13:32 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: Christian values At 1:55 PM -0700 9/14/01, Michael Walton wrote: [...] > A literal >interpretation of this means that it is Dissonant for >Laurence to kill a Human. If your campaign uses this >option, it handily explains why Laurence has non-Christian >angels in his service; he's smart enough to know that some >Humans deserve killing, but he can neither do it nor order >it done. Thus, he sends angels who aren't bound by the >same code into those situations and tells them to use their >own judgement. Alternatively, somewhere in the cellars of Notre Dame are cells wherein are kept the Hellsworn who were captured (Song of Thunder, Possession, Kyrios, etc.). Fed, clothed, exercised, psychoanalyzed by Elohim and Mercurians... And never released until they truly repent... Or die. Mmmmmmmmmm. That gave me a nice creepy feeling about Mr. Galahad. O:> - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. arcangel is nursing a trout with ARMS! ARMS that reach out and try to pound the keyboard! You say "And teeth. Ow." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 22:38:19 -0400 From: Mike Bruner Subject: Re: IN> christian values >As for Laurence's take on violence against humans, even hell-sworn . . . >this an area the GM can use for contrast control. Will Laurence refrain >from killing even Sorcerors and Soldiers of Hell (because they're still >human) or will he and his be willing to slay a hundred innocent humans to >save the lives of a million ? > >Does Laurence shoot the hostage or not ? is another way of looking at it. In the Speed sense of "take the hostage out of the equation", I imagine the answer would be yes (the benefits of the Corporeal Song of Healing :)). >SFAIK, because Angels aren't humans (and there's no definitive proof of >Christ's existance, in the American game at least), they aren't bound by >Christian morals. whoo-hoo. Well, there's definitely canon precedent for Laurence holding angels to a different standard than humans, since apparently he is far harsher on them than humans and Saints in terms of expectations (his dissonance conditions do boil down to "Obey or die" for them, after all). Doesn't quite fit with applying completely Christian morality to them when you think about it. - -- Mike Bruner-- bruner@delaware.infi.net I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me at once. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 01:57:15 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> David's troubedour Oreh Cherub of Stone Master of the Granite Hand Cor-5 Str-12 Agi-6 Eth-4 Int-6 Pre-8 Cel-3 Will-6 Per-6 Artifacts: Flaming Pick ax (appears to be tiny hammer usually) 4/ Vessel: Young man in his mid twenties 6/+2 Sex Appeal Skills: Area Knowledge (Caves 6/), Poetry 1/, Savoir Faire 1/, Large Weapon (Pick-ax 6/), Mining 6/ Songs: Song of Attraction (Ethereal 3), Song of Form (Corporeal 6/, Celestial 3/), Song of Thunder 4/ Attunements: Cherub of Stone, Malakim of Stone, Deep Gaze, Cold Touch, Master of the Granite Hand Oreh the Master of the Granite Hand has labored in David's underground caverns making tunnels for men's specifications and their homes for so many years now that even he doesn't remember when he started doing it. During that time he spoke with many mortal souls about their lives and gradually as Cherubs are won't to do the man became enamoured slightly of mortal life and protective of it but could not intimately understand it like the Mercurians could no matter what the questioning. Finally Oreh settled down on what he desired most to understand about mortals and made it rather plane to his superior. Oreh wanted to fall in love. David was a methodical thinker on this and frankly it took him close to a year to think about what to do about his best pit boss wanting to discover something so transitary about mortal existence. Oreh wouldn't have it and David aceeded and entrusted the Cherub with a vessel and the instructions to seek out fellow angels in this regard to help him in his quest to fall in love and "hurry back". Since Oreh was such an old angel to begin with hurrying to him means David has probably given him a few thousand years to accomplish his mission. Oreh is a rather stiff (pun intended), hard (ditto), occasionally volcanically tempered (I'm on a roll) type of a servitor of David and his search for true love that is ever lasting and strong as a rock has led him into a few spots of trouble now and then. Try as he might he just can't seem to relate to anything on Earth unless it has something to do with rocks.... "I don't understand it Most Holy. I'm tried jewelry, rock candy, hard rock musical serenades, and flirting with women of truly chiseled features to make her jealous but nothing seems to affect her heart of stone." As you can tell what progress he has made is usually in the area of slang. The fact remains also that Oreh really is easily confused by the mixed messages that he gets because he's never been out of Heaven until recently. For instance he reads a book about Courtly Love and spurred on by the example of a Sword servitor promptly picks a fight with the abusive boyfriend of a girl he likes and splatters him across the pavement..... Literally. As one can imagine he's a slow learner too with David willing to pay fairly handsome rewards to any of his servitors and even to a certain extent the servitors of other Archangels who can keep his old friend out of trouble. - -Charlemagne of course he and David are a perfect couple anyway... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 17:21:30 -0400 From: damienw@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> What with one thing and another, this subject came up last night On Fri, 14 Sep 2001 00:30:06 +0100 Omentide writes: > Not sure. A vessel is a vessel whether made in Heaven or Hell. It > is > simply a celestial vessel. A fallen angel can still inhabit the > same > vessel. A vessel is therefore a shell in which the celestial can > reside no > matter whether angel or demon and the content of flesh, blood and > bone etc, > remain the same. Which is why I specifically mentioned "in games where the symbology is more important". In canon IN, all Vessels are indistinguishable from human (or whatever) bodies by any but very sophisticated tests, and thus would act much as a human in all ways in this situation if the draining was just a physical transfer of blood (with possibile bonus against secondary effects like domination, as the inhabiting spirit is *not* human). I merely pointed out that in a game where the physical act is less important than symbolically drinking blood from another being, the differing qualities of the inhabiting spirit could change the meaning of it, metaphysically. It doesn't *have* to, but as I said, it's entirely defensible. - --- damienw[et]juno.com "To kill a man between panels is to condemn him to a thousand deaths." - Scott McCloud ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 22:06:15 +0100 From: Omentide Subject: Re: IN> What with one thing and another, this subject came up last night > > Not sure. A vessel is a vessel whether made in Heaven or Hell. It > > is > > simply a celestial vessel. A fallen angel can still inhabit the > > same > > vessel. A vessel is therefore a shell in which the celestial can > > reside no > > matter whether angel or demon and the content of flesh, blood and > > bone etc, > > remain the same. > >Which is why I specifically mentioned "in games where the symbology >is more important". In canon IN, all Vessels are indistinguishable from >human (or whatever) bodies by any but very sophisticated tests, and thus >would act much as a human in all ways in this situation if the draining >was just a physical transfer of blood (with possibile bonus against >secondary effects like domination, as the inhabiting spirit is *not* human). > >I merely pointed out that in a game where the physical act is less >important than symbolically drinking blood from another being, the >differing qualities of the inhabiting spirit could change the meaning >of it, metaphysically. It doesn't *have* to, but as I said, it's entirely >defensible. Sure, I fully agree. There are many possible options, I have chosen one for a game, others are equally OK. Symbolism is as you say very important especially in a game like In Nomine. I guess in the game I put together I did not want to get my head around to many potentially messy concepts and desired to maintain some sort of balance / preventing excess. Ashley. Ashley and Hilary omentide.omentide@virgin.net http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 21:58:32 -0400 From: Anthony Damiani Subject: IN> Iron Rev IV: Radio Free Heaven (It would seem I'm clinically incapable of submitting an Iron Rev entry early, regardless of the time available...) It was a team effort. The idea that humanity could be used as a vast thinktank for celestials was ultimately Vapula's. The arrangements for a Cold War to act as a near-perfect simulation of The War was Malphas' contribution. The plot in question is one that Nybbas has wanted to try for a number of decades, but until now he has lacked the means. The dividing line in the Marches is never straight or even in the best of times. It warps and bulges as particular fears afflict particular populations, creating a warped and contorted boarder filled with metaphorical peninsulas and fjords. Occasionally some of these outcroppings reach deep into the territory surrounded the other side-- and, in this case, to within sight of Heaven itself. Which is exactly what Nybbas required It's like this, see: Albertus Magnus once calculated that there were 400 million Angels in Heaven-- do you have any /idea/ what kind of untapped viewer share that represents? It's all about the ratings, baby-- except when it's about the demographics. And even Shal-Mari doesn't pull the kind of demos you get in Heaven. It's where they /invented/ the beautiful people, for Damnation's sake! Talk about your primo ratings... "And that was 'Garbage' with 'Push It'... Now, stay tuned for our interview with a special guest-- Malphas, Lord of Factions! And remember, everybody: Resist the propaganda! Trust no one! Fight the man! Get in the pit and love some one!" "This is the noise that keeps me awake/ my head explodes and my body aches" -- Michael, speaking for the entire choir of Seraphim. Which is where the PCs come in. Though some Archangels, such as Marc, feel that greater dialogue with Hell could have beneficial results, and some, primarily Novalis and Eli lament the fact that the music is genuiely /good/ ('It is one of our greatest failings that all the best bands are affiliated with Satan-- how I wish it hadn't been necessary to exile the Archangel of Song....')-- but ultimately, nobody is willing to allow Heaven to be exposed to Infernal propaganda. This particular outlet of dark language must not survive. PCs have at least three options in dealing with this threat. They can hunt down and kill Shezekath ('Your NNN News Anchor'), the demon Nybbas has broadcasting Radio Free Heaven. Bear in mind that the broadcast itself is a projection, and it's not as simple as charging into the marches and killing him. Nybbas will, however, gleefully assign another anchor and continue the effort-- PCs will have to hunt down and kill a series of demons before this becomes too expensive an investment for the Media. Option two is to travel to earth and provide people with peace, hope and security, in an attempt to destabilize the indentation Beleth has made in the Marches. Option Three is to set up The Voice of God-- the Metatron Broadcast Network, airing *Live* from Sheol to Shal-Mari, and attempt to hit Nybbas where it hurts: in the market-share. If the programming is popular enough, Marc may be able to negotiate a deal-- one radio station for another. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2374 ********************************