in_nomine-digest Monday, September 17 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2376 In this digest: IN> Heaven's own answer to Emma Re: IN> Iron Rev 4 Extension IN> How long do I hold it? Re: IN> How long do I hold it? Re: IN> IN Game Line IN> Mishandling IN> Iron Rev: Eponymous Re: IN> Mishandling IN> Iron Rev: Eponymous IN> Oops... Re: IN> IN Game Line Re: IN> How long do I hold it? Re: IN> IN Game Line Re: IN> IN Game Line Re: IN> IN Game Line Re: IN> IN Game Line ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 01:14:11 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Heaven's own answer to Emma Moaz Ofanim of Faith Cor-3 Str-2 Agi-11 Eth-3 Int-6 Pre-6 Cel-3 Will-4 Per-6 Artifact: Holy Bow, 3 holy arrows (enchanted so that they can carry a song) Role: Cher Peal (Romance Novelist) 4/ Vessel: Human Female (+3 Sex Appeal) Skills: Art Lore (Music 3/, Painting 2/), Archery 4/, Lying 3/, Seduction 4/, Savoir Faire 6/ Songs: Song of Attraction (Ethereal 4/), Song of Form (Ethereal 2/, Celestial 3/), Song of Thunder (Ethereal 3/), Song of Wings 3/ Attunement: Ofanim of Faith, Jihad Moaz is a favored servitor of Khalid. No really. Moaz may admittadly is a bit unorothodox among Khalid's followers as she was among the first to branch out from the Middle East to the West where she followed around troubedours and set up matches among Christians after several centuries of Matchmaking among the Arabians (ever hear of Schereazad? Moaz claims she saw the old Prince with no one to love and arranged the storyteller to meet him. Seraphs and anyone who actually knows the story know better). Khalid thought of her as an outcast for her continued ties to Heaven but Moaz merely returned when he reconnected with Heaven to say "Your last orders were go forth and promote love and affection among the Faithful. You didn't specialize which faithful or give an exact time limit or area zone to limit myself to." the chatterbox then rattled off her accomplishments against the servitors of Lust she'd performed in the meantime that were so detailed and strong that Khalid agreed to accept her back into his service (she considers that she never left) under the strict condition that she obey the letter and SPIRIT of his words. Moaz is a stunningly sexy young woman whose appearence (redhead, brunette, arab, englishwoman, etc) switch with the drop of a hat though she's so amazingly good at her appearence even when she forgets "details" she's able to pass it off as plastic surgery or exceptional nights at the spa for her role. The Ofanim's jetset lifestyle and rather...ahem...strong tastes for promoting love make her a poor Muslim in Khalid's conservatives but Khalid has read her faith in Allah and discovered it amazingly strong and pure...if misguided. Angels who associate with Moaz had best be prepared to be seduced, talked about into changing their lifestyles to something abit more trendsetting, and drafted into helping any Tom, Dick, and Harriet Moaz picks up who truly love one another but haven't yet had the courage to fall in love. The fact also remains that Moaz is deceptively more powerful than one might think and is actually a leader in the "modernizers" of Khalid to bringing the word of faith to Christians which makes her more influential than her distinctionless status may attest. (She once called Rashid, The Angel of prayer "A gloomy gus") In truth Moaz just wants to continue her holy mission of bringing together everyone in love and perfect harmony...and if she should also have the time inbetween matchmaking to kill a few pimps, child pornographers, or abusive spouses she true lovers can marry...SO MUCH THE BETTER! - -Charlemagne _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 01:18:11 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Iron Rev 4 Extension > Cool. I may get one in, but no promises. Hard to get > inspired in light of the fact that I'm not familiar with > any of the songs on the ingredients list (some of us don't > listen to much pop or rock while jazz is an option). First off, you don't need to know the songs; just go with whatever images the lyrics suggest. And if you really want to listen to them, there's always places like WinMX and the like. :) - -- Casca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 01:21:15 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: IN> How long do I hold it? Okay, so how long should I hold open the submission deadline for IR4? On the one hand, I want to give folks time to submit stuff, because otherwise it'll be a poor contest and I recognize it's been a rough week for us Americans. On the other, I don't want to seem like a complete dishrag and not stick to any sort of schedule. Suggestions? I'm not going to allow more than another week, tops. I'm just not sure if I should allow even that. - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 02:48:29 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> How long do I hold it? On Mon, 17 Sep 2001, Eric Bertish wrote: > Okay, so how long should I hold open the submission deadline for IR4? How about this... IF ANYONE ON HERE IS CLOSE TO FINISHING (OR POLISHING) UP AN IRON REV ENTRY, COULDJA EMAIL ERIC, PLEASE, AND GIVE HIM AN IDEA OF HOW LONG YOU NEED? Now if everyone begs you for "two more days, please!", you at least have a clue of what the public is asking for. I know last week threw me out of whack quite a bit, too... - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! It is a sad commentary on today's society that this .sig file must be considered "offensive" simply because it contains the word "fuck". ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 22:43:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> IN Game Line - --- Perry Lloyd wrote: >In Nomine has provided gear, songs, background on its >Superiors, characters/monsters, places to explore and >interact with, guide books for its choirs/bands (not >unlike clan books for V:TM, the character class books >for D&D or the Liber Angelis / Liber Daemonis for >INS/MV) but, I feel has failed its audience and >consumers in one greatly tragic way : lack of a game >world that's developing, changing, and growing. Nice sentiment: only thing is, who takes it on the chin? That's not facetious, actually. Look around, and you'll see that most of the people on this list* do not agree on what the world of IN should look like. For every person wanting to play idealistic celestials taking the War to the Enemy, you've got one who wants muck, angst and alienation: for every person who decries the drift from the French game, there's one who thinks that SJG should put an outboard motor to the sucker. Then you've got people like me. Damned if _I_ know what my favored style is, unless weird counts. All of this is all very well, of course, except that choosing one world, one setting, one paradigm (can you tell that I bought another Mage product?) will eliminate the others. Nature of the beast, and all that. That means that a large portion of your existing fan base is now sucking air, /no matter which category you pick/**. Not good for short term sales - especially since you lose the associated writers, too. So, is there anyone here that wants to sacrifice their own favorite interpretation of the game line for the betterment of all? It's OK. Nobody has to feel guilty for not raising their hands. Moe *Representative of the buyers of IN products? Mebbe, mebbe not. Representative of those with a proven ability to get cash money for their IN material? Damn skippy they are. **After all, we're talking about angels and demons. Two common symbols of Good and Evil - and seeing as nobody agrees on what either term actually means, it's not too surprising that nobody can achieve consensus on their avatars... ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 07/29/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 01:58:06 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Mishandling Well it finally happened. One of the Angels of Final Judgement missed a Hellsworn who repented with their last breath and fufilled their destiny. It was really ingenious the way Asmodeus snuck his former soldier past. It was the princible of the thing you know. Hypothetically speaking what happens now that the mistake is known to Heaven? - -Charlemagne _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 04:36:11 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: IN> Iron Rev: Eponymous (Sorry for the last-minute entry... I decided not only to incorporate the three verses, but also an entire Song, into my plot... I hope it worked.) Eponymous - An Iron Rev Submission from Rev. Pee Kitty He picked up the phone and took the call A long distance voice just started to bawl I don't care if you feel small Love without anger isn't love at all Paul Jeffords - head of the Jeffords Team, part of the Optimisation and Constraint Solving Group (OCS), based in Computer Lab Four of the School of Computer Science and Software Engineering (CSSE) (Monash University: Caulfield Campus in Victoria, Australia) - has gone missing. The Jeffords team is a small group of twelve graduates and undergrads, including the Roles of three angels of Lightning, working on a "computer vaccine" - a computer virus designed to hunt down and eliminate other computer virii. While the project has yet to produce any solid leads in the year since its inception, the potential benefit is high enough that the CSSE is continuing to fund it. The sudden disappearance of Dr. Jeffords, three days ago, has come as quite a shock. The three Jeannites are Rygan (An older Elohite, Role as Amy Hill, graduate student), Tarisel (A soft-spoken Malakite, Role as Thomas Green, undergrad), and Choengiel (An eager, young, Mercurian, redeemed from an Impudite, Role as Gary Wellington, undergrad). While brilliant scientists all, none have the makings of a decent criminal detective... that's where the PCs must come in. So why can't you have your cake and eat it too? Why believe in things that make it tough on you? Why scream and cry when you know it's through? Why fall in love when there's better things to do? The PCs can be friends called in to help, just the nearest angels, or "official support staff" (sent by Dominic, Laurence, or Jean). They'll have their work cut out for them. No one can establish a clear motive - the group was nowhere near a breakthrough and Jeffords (47, male, white, divorced 12 years ago) had little life outside of the school. His car is missing and his condo undisturbed. A fireproof safe there contains copies of the lab results; they match the lab copies exactly. When the PCs begin speaking with the other (human) team members, however, something interesting turns up. All of them will mention (though some may have to be questioned about it) that they often have the worst headaches after working with the team; even afterwards, at night, they're kept awake or experiencing nightmares from "what seems like a murmuring white noise in my head". None of them have ever really discussed it enough to realize the similarities, but if brought out into the open, they'll all agree that it's odd, and when comparing notes, they'll discover that it happened to all of them at about the same time. It can't be blamed on screen radiation either, as it's occurred during lunch meetings and such as well. Barbie and Ken in a great big fight It seems Ken forgot to make it home one night You know what you're seeing simply can't be right Looks like Love's bark is worse than its bite The PCs may decide to explore the humans' dreamscapes for clues. Rygan may suggest this if they do not think of it. The last migraine episode was only yesterday, and the aftershocks are still there. The GM may decide how much digging the PCs have to do to discover a soft undercurrent of mumbled words spoken in the Infernal tongue! Though this dark language, if heard, rarely survives long in mortal minds, it seems that these humans are picking it up subconsciously from somewhere, with painful results. If the PCs are not equipped for the Marches, the Elohite resonance (or the much-hated Kyriotate expanded resonance) may pick up the same thing, as may certain Songs or other resonances (with a generous GM). Rygan will be more than willing to assist the PCs in this. At some point, when a minor errand is needed done, Rygan and Tarisel will send young Choengiel to do it. Shortly afterward, the humans nearby will experience the migraines. If they follow after Choengiel, they will easily catch up to him slowly walking down the hall, holding his organizer to his head. A successful Perception+2 roll reveals it as an artifact. If Tarisel is present, he will call after him loudly, "Choengiel! That artifact was not assigned to you by Jean. What is it and where did you get it?" It is at this point that the truth begins to be known.... He was young and in love So he just couldn't see And it compelled him to ask "Are you kidding me? You must be kidding me!" Choengiel used to be Jacoban, Impudite of Vapula. Jacoban was an effective demon of Technology until the day he realized that he was in love with Hezrach, his Djinn lab-mate. Hezrach was unsure and confused, but agreed to go Renegade with Jacoban. The two stashed their toys in different places on Earth, smashed their Hearts in Hell, and headed for the surface with the Game hot on their heels. Jacoban made it; Hezrach did not, and was taken away in irons by the game. In tears, Jacoban made it to a divine tether and eventually redeemed. Choengiel always assumed that Hezrach was dead. In the last few months, he heard news otherwise. Not knowing the Celestial Song of Tongues, and afraid to ask for help learning it (for the reason behind the need), he turned to his stash of toys, grabbing only the Speed Dialer. He has been using it to send messages to Hezrach. While he isn't willing to jump back into the pit, even to love someone, he is hoping to bring the Djinn back into his arms and into the arms of God. [ARTIFACT: Speed Dialer. This self-powered relic can perform a variant of the Celestial Song of Tongues, costing no Essence, but doing 2 Soul Hits to the user instead. It thus causes no disturbance and does not send any Essence to the recipient. Physically, it is a thin organizer, the type that holds names, numbers, and addresses.] To try to appeal to the Djinn, Choengiel has been sending him messages in the Infernal tongue. Unfortunately, the buggy Vaputech has been interacting poorly with his Mercurian of Lightning attunement, and has been broadcasting his transmission on a subconscious level to everyone around him. The celestial nature of angels completely shields them from the effect, but the humans in the area aren't as lucky, and find their subconscious minds filled with the diabolical tongue. Love without teardrops isn't the same He asked to be counted out of her game She thought it was him who was so insane Love is what it does by any other name Hezrach managed to miraculously talk his way out of the Game's clutches, willingly spreading the story through Hell of his kidnapping and forced flight. After time, he came to believe it, and barely remembers the brief period of "confusion". The messages from Choengiel have come as a total surprise, and have brought up painful memories... Hezrach has decided to deal with these with simple sadism. Choengiel has shared his location and mission with Hezrach. Hezrach has decided to break the Mercurian's resolve, possibly even bringing him back into the pit. To that effect, he has kidnapped Dr. Jeffords, and is planning on killing him and leaving his mangled body where the Jeannites will find him, with the name "Jacoban" scrawled on the window in blood. Using Choengiel and his messages as "bait" may prove to be the most effective way to lure the Djinn out into the open. Convincing Choengiel that this is the right thing to do may be difficult. GMs who enjoy a darker style may have Jeffords' body show up as planned, causing Choengiel to lose his mind and flee, Outcast, and in danger of falling into the pit again. Perhaps the two will even join forces and work against the PCs... How cruel do you want to be? So why can't you have your cake and eat it too? Why believe in things that make it tough on you? Why scream and cry when you know it's through? Why fall in love when there's better things to do? -- "Love Without Anger", Devo - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! ::: If your life was a movie, would people pay to see it? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 04:37:38 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> Mishandling On Mon, 17 Sep 2001, Charles Phipps wrote: > Well it finally happened. > > One of the Angels of Final Judgement missed a Hellsworn who repented with > their last breath and fufilled their destiny. It was really ingenious the > way Asmodeus snuck his former soldier past. > > It was the princible of the thing you know. > > Hypothetically speaking what happens now that the mistake is known to > Heaven? RESCUE ATTEMPT!!! And what a fun idea, that... - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! Information is not knowledge. Knowledge is not wisdom. Wisdom is not truth. Truth is not beauty. Beauty is not love. Love is not music. Music is _the best_. -- Frank Zappa, "Packard Goose" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 04:39:16 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: IN> Iron Rev: Eponymous (Sorry for the last-minute entry... I decided not only to incorporate the three verses, but also an entire Song, into my plot... I hope it worked.) Eponymous - An Iron Rev S u bmission from Rev. Pee Kitty He picked up the phone and took the call A long distance voice just started to bawl I don't care if you feel small Love without anger isn't love at all Paul Jeffords - head of the Jeffords Team, part of the Optimisation and Constraint Solving Group (OCS), based in Computer Lab Four of the School of Computer Science and Software Engineering (CSSE) (Monash University: Caulfield Campus in Victoria, Australia) - has gone missing. The Jeffords team is a small group of twelve graduates and undergrads, including the Roles of three angels of Lightning, working on a "computer vaccine" - a computer virus designed to hunt down and eliminate other computer virii. While the project has yet to produce any solid leads in the year since its inception, the potential benefit is high enough that the CSSE is continuing to fund it. The sudden disappearance of Dr. Jeffords, three days ago, has come as quite a shock. The three Jeannites are Rygan (An older Elohite, Role as Amy Hill, graduate student), Tarisel (A soft-spoken Malakite, Role as Thomas Green, undergrad), and Choengiel (An eager, young, Mercurian, redeemed from an Impudite, Role as Gary Wellington, undergrad). While brilliant scientists all, none have the makings of a decent criminal detective... that's where the PCs must come in. So why can't you have your cake and eat it too? Why believe in things that make it tough on you? Why scream and cry when you know it's through? Why fall in love when there's better things to do? The PCs can be friends called in to help, just the nearest angels, or "official support staff" (sent by Dominic, Laurence, or Jean). They'll have their work cut out for them. No one can establish a clear motive - the group was nowhere near a breakthrough and Jeffords (47, male, white, divorced 12 years ago) had little life outside of the school. His car is missing and his condo undisturbed. A fireproof safe there contains copies of the lab results; they match the lab copies exactly. When the PCs begin speaking with the other (human) team members, however, something interesting turns up. All of them will mention (though some may have to be questioned about it) that they often have the worst headaches after working with the team; even afterwards, at night, they're kept awake or experiencing nightmares from "what seems like a murmuring white noise in my head". None of them have ever really discussed it enough to realize the similarities, but if brought out into the open, they'll all agree that it's odd, and when comparing notes, they'll discover that it happened to all of them at about the same time. It can't be blamed on screen radiation either, as it's occurred during lunch meetings and such as well. Barbie and Ken in a great big fight It seems Ken forgot to make it home one night You know what you're seeing simply can't be right Looks like Love's bark is worse than its bite The PCs may decide to explore the humans' dreamscapes for clues. Rygan may suggest this if they do not think of it. The last migraine episode was only yesterday, and the aftershocks are still there. The GM may decide how much digging the PCs have to do to discover a soft undercurrent of mumbled words spoken in the Infernal tongue! Though this dark language, if heard, rarely survives long in mortal minds, it seems that these humans are picking it up s u bconsciously from somewhere, with painful results. If the PCs are not equipped for the Marches, the Elohite resonance (or the much-hated Kyriotate expanded resonance) may pick up the same thing, as may certain Songs or other resonances (with a generous GM). Rygan will be more than willing to assist the PCs in this. At some point, when a minor errand is needed done, Rygan and Tarisel will send young Choengiel to do it. Shortly afterward, the humans nearby will experience the migraines. If they follow after Choengiel, they will easily catch up to him slowly walking down the hall, holding his organizer to his head. A successful Perception+2 roll reveals it as an artifact. If Tarisel is present, he will call after him loudly, "Choengiel! That artifact was not assigned to you by Jean. What is it and where did you get it?" It is at this point that the truth begins to be known.... He was young and in love So he just couldn't see And it compelled him to ask "Are you kidding me? You must be kidding me!" Choengiel used to be Jacoban, Impudite of Vapula. Jacoban was an effective demon of Technology until the day he realized that he was in love with Hezrach, his Djinn lab-mate. Hezrach was u n sure and confused, but agreed to go Renegade with Jacoban. The two stashed their toys in different places on Earth, smashed their Hearts in Hell, and headed for the surface with the Game hot on their heels. Jacoban made it; Hezrach did not, and was taken away in irons by the game. In tears, Jacoban made it to a divine tether and eventually redeemed. Choengiel always assumed that Hezrach was dead. In the last few months, he heard news otherwise. Not knowing the Celestial Song of Tongues, and afraid to ask for help learning it (for the reason behind the need), he turned to his stash of toys, grabbing only the Speed Dialer. He has been using it to send messages to Hezrach. While he isn't willing to jump back into the pit, even to love someone, he is hoping to bring the Djinn back into his arms and into the arms of God. [ARTIFACT: Speed Dialer. This self-powered relic can perform a variant of the Celestial Song of Tongues, costing no Essence, but doing 2 Soul Hits to the user instead. It thus causes no disturbance and does not send any Essence to the recipient. Physically, it is a thin organizer, the type that holds names, numbers, and addresses.] To try to appeal to the Djinn, Choengiel has been sending him messages in the Infernal tongue. Unfortunately, the buggy Vaputech has been interacting poorly with his Mercurian of Lightning attunement, and has been broadcasting his transmission on a s u bconscious level to everyone around him. The celestial nature of angels completely shields them from the effect, but the humans in the area aren't as lucky, and find their s u bconscious minds filled with the diabolical tongue. Love without teardrops isn't the same He asked to be counted out of her game She thought it was him who was so insane Love is what it does by any other name Hezrach managed to miraculously talk his way out of the Game's clutches, willingly spreading the story through Hell of his kidnapping and forced flight. After time, he came to believe it, and barely remembers the brief period of "confusion". The messages from Choengiel have come as a total surprise, and have brought up painful memories... Hezrach has decided to deal with these with simple sadism. Choengiel has shared his location and mission with Hezrach. Hezrach has decided to break the Mercurian's resolve, possibly even bringing him back into the pit. To that effect, he has kidnapped Dr. Jeffords, and is planning on killing him and leaving his mangled body where the Jeannites will find him, with the name "Jacoban" scrawled on the window in blood. Using Choengiel and his messages as "bait" may prove to be the most effective way to lure the Djinn out into the open. Convincing Choengiel that this is the right thing to do may be difficult. GMs who enjoy a darker style may have Jeffords' body show up as planned, causing Choengiel to lose his mind and flee, Outcast, and in danger of falling into the pit again. Perhaps the two will even join forces and work against the PCs... How cruel do you want to be? So why can't you have your cake and eat it too? Why believe in things that make it tough on you? Why scream and cry when you know it's through? Why fall in love when there's better things to do? -- "Love Without Anger", Devo - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! ::: If your life was a movie, would people pay to see it? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 04:43:19 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: IN> Oops... Er... I thought that first one would bounce because it had "s u b" right at the beginning... sorry for the double-post, guys. - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! "Ninety-nine percent of life is what you make of it, so if your life sucks, you suck." -- Mike Muir ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 09:48:01 +0000 From: "cassandra benner" Subject: Re: IN> IN Game Line Perry has brought a a very good point here, its one that has been raised a few times in the list aswell and still the bosses do nothing about it. I Thought this was an official IN group, insomuch as that it is used to sound out the players for thier wants and needs. There are some incredibly creative people on this list who are not the average player and even they have all had to do thier own cities/game areas. Average players are on this list, im one of them, so's nick who got me on this list, we are creative but we do struggle with IN games to be honest, and its slipped from our fav game to one we do if its a one off game where no flavour is needed. Its a grey world. (as in it needs color) The only thing that keeps us coming back to it is the main rules, but we as average players need more. I know that lots of folks who role play like manga, but i for one do not want to play a manga game, i would like a game world thats richly detailed. Why dont we just base it on the real world? Well, we do but we have no feedback from SJG about how the AA's and DP's and others are represented in this world. The Question is, how do we as players fix it? Even Tattered is just supperiors and rules, with background about the factions but little to nothing on how it all meshes in to the world where the players are playing thier charecters. Woohoo, we all know that the good guys and the bad guys are fighting, we sometimes get reminded of why they are fighting, we even get tol which good guys dislike which other good guys, but does the Michaels lot in the army get stick in game courtrooms by dominics lot? We only have the rules and some flavour text but we need defining world books that give details of the world as it is in the game and then in more detail about the cities and so forth. Ok i've rambled enough, its all been on topic so im gonna go to work. Toodles Cas *where you come from is gone, where you're going was never there, and where you are aint no good unless you can get away from it* http://communities.msn.co.uk/ADD http://www.drunkendwarfinn.co.uk http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ADandD_Stuff _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 09:54:25 +0000 From: "cassandra benner" Subject: Re: IN> How long do I hold it? I personally think that the ingredients you selected were a little to restrictive. They rely on the folks being in to that scene and thus gettign ides from it. Thats one problem with having set ideas for the games, they need to be free enough so that the other non gothy angsty metally indie kids get the ideas as well. Im in to the music scene that all the songs came from but even i was not interested in the ingredients. If no one has a problem, i'd like to suggest the next lot in a few weeks or what ever.? Toodles Cas *where you come from is gone, where you're going was never there, and where you are aint no good unless you can get away from it* http://communities.msn.co.uk/ADD http://www.drunkendwarfinn.co.uk http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ADandD_Stuff _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 06:58:19 -0400 From: "S.D." Subject: Re: IN> IN Game Line >>In Nomine has provided gear, songs, background on its >>Superiors, characters/monsters, places to explore and >>interact with, guide books for its choirs/bands (not >>unlike clan books for V:TM, the character class books >>for D&D or the Liber Angelis / Liber Daemonis for >>INS/MV) but, I feel has failed its audience and >>consumers in one greatly tragic way : lack of a game >>world that's developing, changing, and growing. > >Nice sentiment: only thing is, who takes it on the >chin? > >That's not facetious, actually. Look around, and >you'll see that most of the people on this list* do >not agree on what the world of IN should look like. >For every person wanting to play idealistic celestials >taking the War to the Enemy, you've got one who wants >muck, angst and alienation: for every person who >decries the drift from the French game, there's one >who thinks that SJG should put an outboard motor to >the sucker. > >Then you've got people like me. Damned if _I_ know >what my favored style is, unless weird counts. > >All of this is all very well, of course, except that >choosing one world, one setting, one paradigm (can you >tell that I bought another Mage product?) will >eliminate the others. Nature of the beast, and all >that. That means that a large portion of your >existing fan base is now sucking air, /no matter which >category you pick/**. Not good for short term sales - >especially since you lose the associated writers, too. Well, there might be a way to avoid that and still get a "developing, changing, and growing" game world. You see, one of the main reasons I'm so interested in In Nomine, and have lost interest in games like Mage, is simple. In Nomine has constants. In, well, take Mage. If you're a Traditionalist, you might go to Doisstep, you might meet the Council, you might time-travel and meet one of the major figures in Mage history - *and* *that's* *it*. However, in IN, it's *this* >< close to definite that you'll run into, if absolutely *nobody* else, your Superior. So the Superiors are constants. Unless you completely rework the universe, the Superiors in the core book *will* show up in one form or another, so you have someone you can expect. It makes the RP more interesting if you can recognize some of the NPCs, to me. One of the other reasons is the number of game logs there are for IN online. Fiat Justitia and Holy War, to name two...The game logs are fun to read, because you can see how other angels/demons/soldiers/etc change and grow. Now let's combine those two. Has anyone ever thought about trying their hand at an In Nomine fiction series? You could publish the 'Consider...' stories in one book and I'd buy it, despite being on the list for them all. Same thing goes for, say, the Fiat logs in novel form, though I've read most/all of them. Vampire has a number of series like this - there's the 13 in the Clanbook series, one anthology, and one or two Clan Trilogies, all intertwined. Those books are steadily getting me back into Vampire; why not try something similar for IN? And with different authors, it doesn't matter how IN changes between books. There could be a Backwards book and an extremely Bright book published, just for example... ~S.D. Ryukage ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ice: I was wondering if you'd seen what's happening with Alitis now. I have a week-Geas to play tour guide to a gerbil that Needs to have a Britney Spears-esque pop singer get stripped in public. S.D. Ryukage, describing what her Lilim PC was busy doing ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 11:17:32 +0000 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> IN Game Line > >Has anyone ever thought about trying their hand at an In Nomine fiction >series? SJG doesn't have a license for IN fiction, IIRC. (I'm sure there would be no shortage of prospective authors ;) ) jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 13:51:24 +0100 From: Omentide Subject: Re: IN> IN Game Line >Its a grey world. (as in it needs color) The only thing that keeps us >coming back to it is the main rules, but we as average players need more. The problem with adding colour and background is that it can become restrictive. As stated elsewhere the more background material produced the more the game world can become set in stone. This could well drive away just as many players as it brings in. >I know that lots of folks who role play like manga, but i for one do not >want to play a manga game, i would like a game world thats richly detailed. > >Why dont we just base it on the real world? >Well, we do but we have no feedback from SJG about how the AA's and DP's >and others are represented in this world. My take is however you want. No two games need to be the same. In one sense the AA's and DP's are a constant, but how they interact with the Corporeal realm is another thing entirely. I personally would not want to see lists of which Angel controls which tether, in which city, with lists of abilities, notes on personality and staff, tether defences etc. Similarly I would not really want to see some sort of 'official' In Nomine modern world. OK, I'd probably just ignore it anyway unless there were specific parts I liked or wanted to make use of. I'd probably get the books on MiB points and use them to promote the In Nomine but there is other stuff I would prefer to see. Not least being the Ethereal Players Guide. Other things I would like to see are Historical books. In particular the Renaissance, it is such an amazing period in time. And of course an official Live Action version. >The Question is, how do we as players fix it? >Even Tattered is just supperiors and rules, with background about the >factions but little to nothing on how it all meshes in to the world where >the players are playing thier charecters. There are accounts of numerous games and bits of work by many people on the web. Not really the same as some sort of game world with everything meshed together but I guess you could use this as some sort of foundation. The problem with trying to develop a unified game world is that as soon as it is done it becomes out of date. A character (or NPC) does something, a tether changes hands, it becomes descovered that Malakim can fall, etc, and you need to rewrite the whole thing. The whole Gangrel and Ravnos thing in World of Darkness is a classic example of this and the sort of mess it is possible to produce once you go down the road of trying to create a fixed and complete game world. Other routes of trying to achieve this sort of thing have run into problems, a growing and developing game world eventually falls over under the sheer weight of material it develops. >Woohoo, we all know that the good guys and the bad guys are fighting, we >sometimes get reminded of why they are fighting, we even get tol which >good guys dislike which other good guys, but does the Michaels lot in the >army get stick in game courtrooms by dominics lot? If you want them to yes, if not then no. >We only have the rules and some flavour text but we need defining world >books that give details of the world as it is in the game and then in more >detail about the cities and so forth. Personally and most of the time I tend to use the real world, or something very near future. This allows a great deal of real world material to be brought into any game. In Nomine is meant to be about Humanity just as much as about the war between Heaven and Hell. Ashley. Ashley and Hilary omentide.omentide@virgin.net http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 06:08:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> IN Game Line - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > So, is there anyone here that wants to sacrifice their > own favorite interpretation of the game line for the > betterment of all? Actually, yes. WW, TSR and the makers of INS/MV have all presented set storylines and game worlds with the disclaimer that the GM is free to change them. This works. Are there people out there who don't agree with WW's interpretation of vampires? You bet. But the line still sells. Shoot, I'm in the Camarilla (WW's LARP club), and the rules calls they make concerning vampires and their powers frequently disgust me. But I continue to pay $9 a year to stay in the club. I'm one of the lead ST's for Cam Mage in my region and remain in touch with ST's all over the world. You won't believe some of the arguments we get into over interpretations of the game world (not rules -- we mostly agree on those). But, you know, we all still play. The point of the original post, if I'm reading this correctly, is that IN lacks direction. Since direction is a common quality of successful game lines, the options are clear. Either give the line some direction or watch it die. I, for one, would be more than willing to see canon take a 90 degree turn from my interpretation. After all, I can only buy future supplements if the line is still alive. And I can always change things to however I want them to be in my campaign. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 The next time someones says "Talk is cheap," remind them of how much Oprah Winfrey makes. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2376 ********************************