in_nomine-digest Tuesday, September 18 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2380 In this digest: Re: IN> The Nine Thesis Re: IN> IN Game Line (And something that's been in my head) IN> The Nine Theses/Game Line stuff Re: IN> IN Game Line (And something that's been in my head) Re: IN> The Nine Thesis IN> When I grow up I want to be...Part XI Re: IN> IN Game Line Re: IN> When I grow up I want to be...Part XI Re: IN> The Nine Thesis Re: IN> IN Game Line Re: IN> IN Game Line (And something that's been in my head) IN> The INC (Private replies ONLY) Re: IN> IN Game Line Re: IN> IN Game Line (And something that's been in my head) Re: IN> In Nomine News Bulletin, Sep. 30 -- Oct. 6 Re: IN> IN Game Line (And something that's been in my head) Re: IN> When I grow up I want to be...Part XI Re: IN> In Nomine News Bulletin, Sep. 30 -- Oct. 6 Re: IN> IN Game Line (And something that's been in my head) Re: IN> The Nine Theses/Game Line stuff IN> News - In Nomified Re: IN> The Nine Thesis Re: IN> News - In Nomified Re: IN> IN Game Line (And something that's been in my head) Re: IN> IN Game Line Re: IN> News - In Nomified Re: IN> When I grow up I want to be...Part XI Re: IN>Impudites and Violent Words ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 07:06:40 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> The Nine Thesis Charles Phipps wrote: > Yes David and I being the customer the question becomes who exactly is right > the developer or myself. You're missing the point. As you've seen from other responses on the list already, the question is who is right, Customer A who liked Superiors 1, or Customer B who didn't? You are making an oft-repeated mistake, and assuming that your personal tastes are representative of all In Nomine fans. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 08:16:59 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> IN Game Line (And something that's been in my head) At 3:56 AM -0700 9/18/01, Maurice Lane wrote: >A good point... hmm. Now that I think of it, the most >likely result of something like this could quite >possibly be no Tether at all. I've shied away from the WTC and In Nomine. I've had thoughts about it, but it's still too raw for my usual IN worldview to be applied. The thoughts I *have* had, though, haven't focused on the creation of a new Tether but on the destruction of the old. IMC, the WTC was long established as Marc's strongest Tether on Earth. I don't have the horrors that happened being the responsibility of Celestial intervention -- I just can't do that. But Mammon, Haagenti, Baal and others smile at the thought of such a major Tether being destroyed, and would resist any efforts to recreate it -- especially since the *Word* of World Trade Center New York isn't gone, so the Seneschal isn't *quite* gone either. (This is as far as I can go on the topic. Sorry.) - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Impudite of Secrets -- or Mercurian of Revelation (candidate for the Word of Obscurity) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 08:47:43 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: IN> The Nine Theses/Game Line stuff I can understand the desire to improve the focus of the line, with the line nearly comatose. I really can. That being said, I don't think that's where the real problems are coming from right now. In Nomine is a niche game. That's a sad fact, but it is a fact. And, that niche has a pretty rabid group of core fans. Look how much material -- true substance, not smoke -- was produced over the summer. (Heck, look at Fantasy Month and Successors alone, and let's not even get *into* Tattered.) The Fan Community is *very* alive and well for In Nomine. But, and it's sad to admit this, it's not a community that's a high priority down in Austin. The evidence is mounting up. The Incyclopedia -- a *massive* resource collected and maintained by non-SJGames employees -- has a configuration error on the SJGames server that hosts it (by SJGames's choice -- it was hosted elsewhere before). It's had it for weeks or months, and no doubt the page-maintainer has tried very hard, but there's still no fix. It's low-priority. This mailing list is extremely active, but its archives are badly broken and getting worse on a daily basis. Right now, we have no way to get old digests. None. Even when the rest of SJGames's mailing lists went over to Yahoo Groups, this list continued to remain the same, with broken archive and retrieval functions. There's no fix in sight. It's low priority. The In Nomine collection hasn't been updated content-wise since Valentine's Day. This isn't a dogpile on EDG, but the fact remains that the INC just isn't being updated, to the point that Moe Lane is rabidly campaigning for individual IN sites to close the gap. (No doubt this is made worse by the lack of list archives, since without either web archiving or digest archiving, if you accidentially delete something, it's gone.) Developing the resource in such a way that it's easier for regular updating (or otherwise allieviating the problem) is just low priority right now. I'm glad In Nomine Anime is coming out. It's a sign that the line isn't completely dead. I'm glad they've announced the EPG will be coming out, for the same reason. But more than questions of flavortext and setting info versus mechanics, more than 'hey, I like this kind of supplement better, even if you like *this* kind of supplement better,' and more than 'here's how I think a complete relaunch of In Nomine should go,' right now I think the basics need to be covered. I think some systems administrative time should be put into fixing or migrating our list so our archives work again. I think some systems administrative time should be put into fixing the incyclopedia.org configuration so it can be accessed and maintained again. I think some core development time should be put into our community resources. And, ultimately, I think we should be a higher priority. I know we're never going to be as important to the higher-ups than the GURPS players, the Ogre players or the Car Wars players, but when *every* significant fan-resource for a game line is either broken or seriously out of date, I think the priority should be bumped up temporarily. It doesn't look good for SJGames. And it sure doesn't feel good for us. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Impudite of Secrets -- or Mercurian of Revelation (candidate for the Word of Obscurity) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 09:10:23 -0400 From: "John J. Maurer, Esq." Subject: Re: IN> IN Game Line (And something that's been in my head) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Prodigal" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 4:47 AM Subject: Re: IN> IN Game Line (And something that's been in my head) > I'd have it be contested between Beleth and Novalis, personally. > > Yes, we all felt shock and horror at the attack itself, but the > international shows of solidarity makes Flowers a contender for it in my > book. Er... You mean David, right? Speaks ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 14:26:35 +0100 From: Omentide Subject: Re: IN> The Nine Thesis OK there are many creative people here, many people who would rather In Nomine was not such a dead line as it is at present. Discussions on A is better than B is not going to change this. Neither is going over what may have been past mistakes ad infinitum. It is my belief that simply repackaging the core book will not serve to bring new life into In Nomine. I think there are deeper issues as to why it did not become the next big thing as SJ clearly hoped. Right now I am not prepared to give up on what I believe is a great game with immense potential. In many ways this list has a direct line to Austin. Bemoaning the fact that EPG and the other books we would like to see are not even clearly in the pipeline is not going to change anything. We need to be more proactive. IMHO there are some changes in concept and the game rule mechanics which need to happen, and then SJ needs to be convinced the line will sell. I would be happy to contribute, it may still come to nothing, but I believe it is worth a try. Assuming this is worthwhile I'm not sure of the best way of doing it. It would I imagine be largely a fan based thing and cost SJGames very little to go through the initial stages of ideas and brainstorming. A private place to throw ideas around would help, but that should not be an issue, I guess most of us on here either subscribe to Pyramid or are MiB's. Beth?? Random thoughts and I guess this may come to nothing, but nothing ventured nothing gained..... Ashley. Ashley and Hilary omentide.omentide@virgin.net http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 17:56:58 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> When I grow up I want to be...Part XI When I grow up, I want to be a Cherub. Zada was well and truly lost. His friends had persuaded him that he should travel and explore, to see if he would like the Ofanite life. Mustering up his courage, he had decided to explore the Cathedral of Light. Empty hall after hall had given way to corridors and interconnecting rooms. It continually gave the impression of being easily navigable; it constantly got Zada more and more lost. Finally, he slumped to the floor, exhausted and despairing. It was nearly an hour later when a familiar feline head appeared around the corner - Maille, a friendly cherub who had taken Zada under his wings a few months ago. Maille padded forward, his panther-form a delight to the confused young reliever. Still too tired to speak, Zada simply hugged his rescuers' head and enjoyed the feel of the Cherub's breath warming his small body. Finally Maille spoke: "Come, I will take you home. You can ride on my back." Maille glided through the halls, never pausing, confident of his way. Zada could not fall; Maille's wings held him safe on the warm furry back. Comfortable and safe once more, Zada dozed. He didn't need to sleep, but there was something restful in being on the Cherub's powerful form. Perhaps half an hour passed before curiosity awoke. 'How do you know this place so well? I thought no one comes here.' "You are correct; no one comes here save the caretaker. I do not know this place well; twice I have had to go around a wall I did not expect. But before I entered, following you, I attuned myself to the gates. They call to me, reminding me of our friendship, and I travel towards them - the way I travelled to find you." 'Friendship?' "Yes, little one. I feel a kinship to the gates, as I do towards you. They, like you, are under my protection. Like you, they will call to me if they need rescuing." 'How can a gate need rescuing?' "In Heaven, they rarely do. Possibly they will need polishing, or their hinges oiled, although neither are commonly needed here. On the Corporeal plane, where demons roam and humans are foolish, threats abound, and decay is usual." He padded on. 'I don't remember calling you. I mean, I wanted to be rescued, and I hoped that you'd come, but...' Maille chuckled softly, a deep sound that sounded very strange coming from his panther throat. "I was called long before you realised you were lost. Do you think the gates have the mental power necessary to call me? When I am needed by my charges, I know. I was following you through these halls while you still hoped to find your own way out - a long chase I might point out, you have travelled far, ever deeper into this maze." 'I was trying to get out!' "You might have been lost here forever if you hadn't stopped. I was getting worried; this place was designed by Lucifer, and I feared that somehow it had bewitched you. But that is something to remember in future - if you are lost, then stop, wait; give your rescuers the chance to find you." Zada was quiet. Finally he spoke, in a trembling voice: 'What would you have done if I hadn't stopped?' "Then I would have followed you little Zada, until I found you. Those under my protection I protect, no matter how long I must spend or what I must do. You are secure in my care." Zada smiled happily, and snuggled into Maille's fur. 'When I grow up, I want to be a Cherub!' Maille smiled, and continued through the abandoned cathedral. James. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 10:20:46 -0400 From: "Jason F. McBrayer" Subject: Re: IN> IN Game Line On Mon, Sep 17, 2001 at 10:39:06AM -0500, David Edelstein wrote: > The "other problems" are what killed it. While some people do indeed > hate metaplots, plenty of game lines have demonstrated that they tend to > be more popular than not, IF executed well. The trick with a metaplot is > not to make it impossible to run a campaign that deviates from the plot. Yes, that's probably so. It's a paradox -- everyone you see talking about metaplots hates them, yet they sell well. I _think_ this means that the people who talk about games online and the people who actually buy most of them aren't the same, which is not too surprising. What I'd rather see than a metaplot for the whole IN universe is something like Delta Green -- a kind of self-contained metaplot that doesn't change the whole game world behind your back. - -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Jason F. McBrayer jmcbray@carcosa.net | | The scalloped tatters of the King in Yellow must hide Yhtill | | forever. R.W. Chambers _The King in Yellow_ | ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 11:00:27 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> When I grow up I want to be...Part XI It must be disconcerting to a human observer, to see a reliever fledge and, in so doing, mutate from a pixie-like humanoid into a winged animal, a system of firey rings, or a cloud of surreal features. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 11:16:41 -0500 From: Jason Schneiderman Subject: Re: IN> The Nine Thesis >It is my belief that simply repackaging the core book will not serve to >bring new life into In Nomine. No - but I think a well-marketed Revised edition could do wonders. ("In Nomine - The Second Coming") - - Jason ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 12:01:18 -0400 From: "Jeffery Watkins" Subject: Re: IN> IN Game Line William, that was wonderful. Not only well written and thought out, but inspirational to how Superiors and their Servitors can be used in a global and campaign. You have given me some great ideas and a handle on how to apply the celestials. Thanks for the news-brief/example! Jeffery _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 13:02:37 -0400 From: "Jeffery Watkins" Subject: Re: IN> IN Game Line (And something that's been in my head) That was awesome!!! Great job Moe. Well written, and I really wish I could put into words the emotions it invoked within me. Great insertion of IN into this horrific real world event. Jeffery _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 13:08:06 -0500 From: EDG Subject: IN> The INC (Private replies ONLY) At 08:47 AM 9/18/01 -0400, you wrote: >The In Nomine collection hasn't been updated content-wise since >Valentine's Day. This isn't a dogpile on EDG, but the fact remains that >the INC just isn't being updated, to the point that Moe Lane is rabidly >campaigning for individual IN sites to close the gap. (No doubt this is >made worse by the lack of list archives, since without either web >archiving or digest archiving, if you accidentially delete something, it's >gone.) Developing the resource in such a way that it's easier for regular >updating (or otherwise allieviating the problem) is just low priority >right now. Eric makes a valid argument. I am willing to admit that I have made a mistake. During the last six months I gave priority to other things, I made a severe error in judgment about the way the site should be run, and I dug myself into denial regarding both of these things. I also was particularly rude to one of the members of this list, one who helped me get on my feet when I first took responsibility for the In Nomine Collection (and who resigned that duty for many of the same reasons for which I stuck my head in the sand). At this point I can say that I made a mistake. I'd like to say that I've seen the light; only time will tell on that one. (I can say also that I've picked a particularly stupid time to pull the stunt that I'm pulling, because of my overwhelming schedule at work. I hope I can make it work.) Here's the stunt: The In Nomine Collection is updated. It's only ten articles, and they're old - but nonetheless it's an update. The news is updated as well, but I'm going to go over here what I went over there. It is my goal to upload at least ten articles a day until my backlog is empty. I *will* upload at least one article a day if it is physically possible for me to do so. (I'm hoping to not get hit by a bus before I finish this update.) In addition, before the backlog is completed, I will unveil the new design for the site. Until then, I apologize for the unconscionable delays. I hope I've got my head out of the sand. Time will tell. With regards, Chris Anthony In Nomine Collection Curator ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 11:15:35 -0700 From: Sean McCarthy Subject: Re: IN> IN Game Line Our spies report that at 09:28 PM 9/17/2001 -0500, Prodigal wrote: >From: "Charles Phipps" > > However the actual rules... > > > > I STILL HAVEN'T FIGURED OUT > >Each of the skills lists one (or sometimes two) attributes that they combine >with to give you the target number (hereafter abbreviated as TN) that you >roll against. It's similar to the way that White Wolf games have attribute >and ability totals as their dice pools. > >Let's take Driving as an example. If I may, I would like to interject here and say that as some of you know, I am one of the people running the In Nomine tournament at the Los Angeles, CA, US area Strategicon conventions. We welcome newcomers and the people promoting the games know this. In an average game, one or two people will never have played before. Usually, we can explain the rules to them in just a few minutes. The rules themselves are not, I think, unduly complex. Any game, of course, can usually have its rules revised for clarity of presentation. Including IN. Sean ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 02:27:36 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> IN Game Line (And something that's been in my head) >--- "William J. Keith" wrote: > >I like the idea of bulletins - it's interesting, >apropos and topical, but I really have to comment on >this one - > > >> Belial and Saminga continued internecine >fighting >in Hell over who shall assign the Seneschal >for the >forked Tether at the WTC. > >_Demonic_ Tether? > >Not in _my_ home universe, thank you very much. > >Moe "Although Thornlord's works very nicely for a Dark >Campaign, I must say" Lane Naturally. I much prefer this version myself -- even considered it. However, a regular bulletin would perforce tend to the most likely (read: obvious) interpretations. Unless, of course, *you* were writing it... O:^) But seriously -- do folks think this should be tried? I could make a trial of it for a few weeks -- I read the newspapers and follow current events regularly. I'd have no objection to Moe writing one either, though... and if the Line Editor or the NetRep wanted to have a go at it in an official vein, that could be good too. Of course, if there's an outcry against it, I could also drop it. William ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 14:41:22 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine News Bulletin, Sep. 30 -- Oct. 6 >I disagree strongly about news bulletins. > >Frankly these things are better left untouched and it annoys me to hell to >think that the Superiors are so utterly banal as to take credit/shift power >over the horrofic events of today that mortals perpetuate. Rarely will a week be so horrific as this one. Most weeks will contain news items which, taken singly, are of far less import. No Superior took credit for the acts of Sep. 11 in this 'bulletin'; they are focused on reacting to it, and they're not always perfect. For example, you'll notice Marc's people were disappointed. >I'm of teh belief they are much more interested in trends. While some events >might take their interest (DC and WW2 for instance and the superheroes vs. >Nazis or India's caste system being a subject of great concern to angels) >and this is all well and good...too much Archangel influences gives In >Nomine angels far too much power over what has always been described as > >NOT a game about mortals being manipulated like pawns. You'll notice that the influences cited were relatively small. Maybe Baal has infiltrated the Taliban's councils. But what overall effect will he really have? Hmm, perhaps the PCs should investigate, and try to stop whatever demon he's put there. Jean managed to get two Vapulans kicked off of an advisory Board -- that's not celestial incluence, that's *negating* celestial influence. The team in Korea (and *my*, isn't that an interesting couple of types to be working together, hmm, perhaps we should explore that) considers it a celebration-worthy success just to have two governments talking to each other. Angels aren't doing that much at all here. They're doing what they can. Same with demons. And, if you think about it, the news bulletins, being drawn from the real world, which doesn't change when some people play a game, will relegate the efforts of a game to where they should be -- the background. The Secret War won't be about influencing World Events. It will be about small-scale deeds, and ultimately something which will never get into the news: winning souls. >Not to mention the shockingly bad taste. > >For instance while it's concievably possible that two Demons were behind the >bombing (at least in In Nomine) up to masterminding it a tether only would >exist if MORTALS did it and truly I can imagine Belial's reaction being? Yes, that's exactly it. Mortals weren't being manipulated like pawns; they were in full control and made their own choices. That's why a Tether formed there; that's why a Michaelite Tether formed at the United 93 site. Though small, it is now the site of a legend about ordinary people who gave their lives to save others -- a legend which may never be fully proved, but nor will it be disproved. >Belial: Yeah yeah, big fire, good for you. However what I want now is >bombing in Afghanistan! > >It's not even distinction worthy. > >While a good adventure might be how horrofied Khalid is when he discovers >that one of HIS groups was responsible with a soldier involved it might make >for some good angst but again Superiors have better things to do than think >on such 'Trivial things' as the individual horrors that change a generation >such as us. > >Not to mention the Khalid thing is in shockingly bad taste as well though >that would be a fun series of adventures to examine Khalid vs. his former >servitors. The Archangel of Faith gaining a bit of strength from an influx of people considering religion and its implications in their lives? Hardly out of place given the structure of the game world. Sabbath sermons (of all kinds, not just Christain or even Abrahamic) were given a full two-page spread in the New York Times today. It's important; people care about it, whether they seek God for comfort (helping Khalid) or use it as an excuse to hate others (aiding Malphas). >-Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 14:56:47 -0400 From: "Jeffery Watkins" Subject: Re: IN> IN Game Line (And something that's been in my head) >But seriously -- do folks think this should be tried? I could make a trial >of it for a few weeks -- I read the newspapers and follow current events >regularly Yes! Please? Jeffery _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 14:59:30 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> When I grow up I want to be...Part XI >It must be disconcerting to a human observer, to see a reliever >fledge and, in so doing, mutate from a pixie-like humanoid >into a winged animal, a system of firey rings, or a cloud of >surreal features. > >Earl Like the one about Ofanim Falling and turning from a set of fiery rings into a bat-winged humanoid -- or vice versa, for that matter. I might suggest that Relievers up to 7 Forces or so (the "undecided", you might say) are pixie-winged humanoids -- but as they approach their 8th and 9th Forces, it's time to make a choice, and they start manifesting feature of their likely Choir. Indeed, it could be fair to say that it's impossible to *get* this far without starting to lean one way or the other. Vice versa, those who are highly Dissonant have shadowy echoes of their opposite Band floating about (*not* the same for demons -- demonic Dissonance isn't necessarily angelic, and the final act of Redemption is indeed a sudden process for them). For example, a Reliever who is likely to fledge Ofanite prefers flying, and indeed prefers it so much that he's rarely stopping; by 7 or 8 Forces, he's trailing little flakes of light or energy wherever he goes. The momentous Fledging simply accelerates his motion to the point where he's a glowing blur, out of which the Ofanite 'coalesces.' A Reliever heading towards Seraph becomes taller and thinner, his wings expanding. His walk might take on serpentine grace, and be less a step than a float A hundred different descriptions are possible, naturally. Purely flavor. The final Fledging might indeed be sudden, and even glorious. William ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 19:11:36 +0000 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine News Bulletin, Sep. 30 -- Oct. 6 >From: "William J. Keith" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine News Bulletin, Sep. 30 -- Oct. 6 >Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 14:41:22 -0400 > > >I disagree strongly about news bulletins. > > > >Frankly these things are better left untouched and it annoys me to hell >to > >think that the Superiors are so utterly banal as to take credit/shift >power > >over the horrofic events of today that mortals perpetuate. > >Rarely will a week be so horrific as this one. Most weeks will contain >news items which, taken singly, are of far less import. Can I make a suggestion? Stick to local news, from where you live. (It'll probably be both zanier and more poignant -- plus it means that as many people as want to can contribute without worrying about contradicting each other.) If you can, include URLs for the stories, but if they were in print media then dont' sweat it. jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 15:43:18 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> IN Game Line (And something that's been in my head) > "Which brings us to our next topic of discussion. > Feel free to stay as long as you like: frankly, I need > the exercise..." Wow, Moe, you're mellowing. Not only is this a post where Belial *doesn't* die a gruesome or absurdly creative death, but you're almost -- almost -- sympathetic to him. Weird. - -- Eric "Hate your next door neighbor, but don't forget to say grace" -- Barry McGuire, _Eve of Destruction_ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 17:11:39 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> The Nine Theses/Game Line stuff GURPSnet is down too; the archival machines are, simply, not online. O:p It's on Sage's plate. (And _I_ archive everything I get, so if necessary, I could re-construct just about everything from my own files. Owie.) But GURPS is hit as well, not just us. The reason this place isn't migrated to yahoogroups is partly because yahoogroups doesn't offer me certain information on what powers a list admin _has_. And I've asked their so-called support people, and they just refer me to the "how to create a group" page that doesn't answer my questions in the first place and then ignore me when I tell them so. (Can you guess I don't like them much? O:> ) Now, if there were some way to set up a hack so that _only_ one address could post to a yahoo group, and then set up an account somewhere that forwarded to it, thus making an archive site... Well, if someone knows how to do _that_ (which I just now thought of), tell me in private email and I can set something up... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 17:17:49 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> News - In Nomified At 2:27 AM -0400 9/18/01, William J. Keith wrote: [...] >But seriously -- do folks think this should be tried? I could make a trial >of it for a few weeks -- I read the newspapers and follow current events >regularly. I'd have no objection to Moe writing one either, though... and >if the Line Editor or the NetRep wanted to have a go at it in an official >vein, that could be good too. Of course, if there's an outcry against it, >I could also drop it. If you mark them obviously (much as I will stick an [ADMIN] into things), so that those who aren't interested can delete, a weekly or monthly "celestials in the news" thing would be interesting to me, sure. I doubt that I'm going to do an official one at this time; _real_ canon goes past SJ first. O:> (And Jo makes a good point -- local news events are likely to be more entertaining, in the whole.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 17:01:47 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> The Nine Thesis At 2:26 PM +0100 9/18/01, Omentide wrote: [...] >IMHO there are some changes in concept and the game rule mechanics which >need to happen, and then SJ needs to be convinced the line will sell. I >would be happy to contribute, it may still come to nothing, but I believe >it is worth a try. [...] >Beth?? Frankly, while I can _listen_, and take away interesting ideas (which I tend to archive in my own little private documents) -- at the moment, SJ is focused on what will keep the company enough in the black for him to publish things that he wants to work on, such as IN. I can listen, I can talk, private email lists can be set up -- but it's going to have a wait-time attached. I'm willing to wait; I'm less willing to have people bugging me all the time to know if This Keen Idea (which may well be not only Keen, but KEEN!) has been heard by my Superior. O:> If people participating in this are inclined to be laid back about things like time-frames, then we can probably figure something out for a forum. Otherwise... Well, it will stress people out and not go any faster. O:> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 18:01:58 -0400 From: "Robb Kidd" Subject: Re: IN> News - In Nomified Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > At 2:27 AM -0400 9/18/01, William J. Keith wrote: > [...] > >But seriously -- do folks think this should be tried? I could make a trial > >of it for a few weeks -- I read the newspapers and follow current events > >regularly. I'd have no objection to Moe writing one either, though... and > >if the Line Editor or the NetRep wanted to have a go at it in an official > >vein, that could be good too. Of course, if there's an outcry against it, > >I could also drop it. > > If you mark them obviously (much as I will stick an [ADMIN] into things), > so that those who aren't interested can delete, a weekly or monthly > "celestials in the news" thing would be interesting to me, sure. As a compromise, I could possibly be convinced to throw up a Slashdot-like site for folks to post these. Headlines and abstracts could go to the list with appropriate [INEWS] header and links to the full story at the site. It would keeps list bandwidth down, at least. Now to determine what could convince me ... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 15:36:18 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> IN Game Line (And something that's been in my head) From: "John J. Maurer, Esq." > From: "Prodigal" > > > > Yes, we all felt shock and horror at the attack itself, but the > > international shows of solidarity makes Flowers a contender for it in my > > book. > > Er... You mean David, right? Not in this case. With the calls for trying to find a peaceful resolution to the situation, the leading chrub of the peace faction strikes me as a more natural candidate than a member of the war faction. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 15:15:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> IN Game Line Wow, Charles, now that's a rant. Rather than reply point by point, I'll just mention a few things. 1) I agree with you that the rulebooks tend to be poorly organized (though, you gotta admit, they've gotten better with time). 2) I'm the one who said in so many words that the line lacks direction, so I can't talk about you. 3) I disagree completely about the d666; it is, IMHO, one of the most elegant dice mechanics ever devised. 4) I have no problem with the character sheets in the books. That's because I never use them; for every game I play, I design my own character sheets. I have a better feel for what information I need on my character sheet than any total stranger ever will. 5) I, too, lament the limited selection of skills. 6) I don't have a problem with the combat system per se, but I do wish that dodging had been handled VERY differently. To the folks at SJG; the point of dodging isn't to reduce damage, it's to not get hit in the first place. Oh, yeah, armor could've been handled better, too. 7) No complaints about the Song list; we got the Liber Canticorum, didn't we? 8) Artifacts are a pain in the main book. Liber Reliquarum fixed most of those problems, thankfully. But Artifacts are still one of the trickiest aspects of the game. 9) Everyone repeat after me; "The Disturbance rules are too freakin' complicated!" And that's my rant. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 The next time someones says "Talk is cheap," remind them of how much Oprah Winfrey makes. __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 22:16:04 +0000 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> News - In Nomified Can I do my reports as if they were from "Hello!" magazine? :) jo >From: "Robb Kidd" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: Re: IN> News - In Nomified >Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 18:01:58 -0400 > >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > At 2:27 AM -0400 9/18/01, William J. Keith wrote: > > [...] > > >But seriously -- do folks think this should be tried? I could make a >trial > > >of it for a few weeks -- I read the newspapers and follow current >events > > >regularly. I'd have no objection to Moe writing one either, though... >and > > >if the Line Editor or the NetRep wanted to have a go at it in an >official > > >vein, that could be good too. Of course, if there's an outcry against >it, > > >I could also drop it. > > > > If you mark them obviously (much as I will stick an [ADMIN] into >things), > > so that those who aren't interested can delete, a weekly or monthly > > "celestials in the news" thing would be interesting to me, sure. > > As a compromise, I could possibly be convinced to throw up a >Slashdot-like site for folks to post these. Headlines and abstracts >could go to the list with appropriate [INEWS] header and links to the >full story at the site. It would keeps list bandwidth down, at least. > Now to determine what could convince me ... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 15:38:28 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> When I grow up I want to be...Part XI From: "james walker" > > Maille smiled, and continued through the abandoned cathedral. This is my favorite of all the series, so far. Good work! :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 18:37:19 -0400 From: "Michael Nutt" Subject: Re: IN>Impudites and Violent Words > Charles E Smith wrote: > > I have a question about Impudites and their service to violent Words. > Maybe its' me, but I have problems wrapping my mind around the concept of > an Impudite of Death, or the War, Cruelty, or Nightmares. Those Words > specialize in terrorizing and hurting mortals, and Impudites are people > demons. Any thoughts on how an Impudite of Baal's or Beleth's can > function without becoming a puddle of Discord? I think it's important here to realize that Impudites aren't just Dark Mercurians. An Impudite gets Band dissonance from *killing* humans... but as long as they survive, he can get violent with them all day long. He can hurt them, terrorize them, leech every bit of joy from their lives, and drain every last wisp of Essence from their souls, and never come close to dissonance. If he somehow lets one of them get skragged, though, he'll feel that shooting pain in his soul as dissonance accumulates. Impudites are probably as close as Hell comes to "people demons", but they're not like shepherds. A better analogy might be cowboys: they aren't what you'd call "animal lovers", even though they help them out of occasional difficulties. They're only doing it to make sure the cattle get to the stockyards in saleable condition, and then they go get some more. They don't have a lot of regard for cattle, and they don't waste a lot of effort on making them more comfortable. Impudites are Hell's specialists on humans and why they do what they do, and on the nature of Forces and Essence. Want to know how to *really* motivate a human to do what you want? Ask an Impudite. They may not have the feel for destruction that the Calabim do, or the gift for emotional manipulation of the Habbalah, or the overarching sense of Self of the Balseraphs, but they can put their fingers on what makes humanity tick better than anyone else. If you want to smash a human's relationships, an Impudite can tell you how. If you want a human to give up a long-held dream, an Impudite can show you the way. If you want a nation to fall in blood and flame... go ask somebody else. - -- Michael ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2380 ********************************