in_nomine-digest Tuesday, September 18 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2381 In this digest: Re: IN> The Nine Thesis Re: IN> The INC (Private replies ONLY) Re: IN> When I grow up I want to be...Part XI IN>Impudites and Violent Words Re: IN> IN Game Line (And something that's been in my head) Re: IN> The Nine Theses/Game Line stuff Re: IN> In Nomine News Bulletin, Sep. 30 -- Oct. 6 Re: IN> IN Game Line (And something that's been in my head) IN> What if Uriel wore a dress, had poppies in her hair, and a magic wand? Re: IN> IN Game Line (And something that's been in my head) Re: IN> What if Uriel wore a dress, had poppies in her hair, and a magic wand? Re: IN> IN Game Line IN> I'm a fair man, I like to think. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 23:36:43 +0100 From: Omentide Subject: Re: IN> The Nine Thesis Beth > >IMHO there are some changes in concept and the game rule mechanics which > >need to happen, and then SJ needs to be convinced the line will sell. I > >would be happy to contribute, it may still come to nothing, but I believe > >it is worth a try. >[...] > >Beth?? > >Frankly, while I can _listen_, and take away interesting ideas (which I >tend to archive in my own little private documents) -- at the moment, >SJ is focused on what will keep the company enough in the black for him >to publish things that he wants to work on, such as IN. I can listen, >I can talk, private email lists can be set up -- but it's going to have >a wait-time attached. Sure. Never thought otherwise. >If people participating in this are inclined to be laid back about things >like time-frames, then we can probably figure something out for a >forum. Otherwise... Well, it will stress people out and not go any faster. >O:> The important thing is to get concepts right, time is secondary. My interest is in ensuring the continuation of the line not in getting new stuff out tomorrow. So yes, I understand what you are saying and am still up for it. Ashley. Ashley and Hilary omentide.omentide@virgin.net http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 16:07:44 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> The INC (Private replies ONLY) From: "EDG" > > Until then, I apologize for the unconscionable delays. I hope I've got my > head out of the sand. Time will tell. Thank you for letting us know this, and I look forward to seeing what gets posted each day. :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 16:13:19 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> When I grow up I want to be...Part XI From: "William J. Keith" > > Like the one about Ofanim Falling and turning from a set of fiery rings > into a bat-winged humanoid -- or vice versa, for that matter. In my games, a Calabim's celestial form resembles a cracked sphere of congealed lava. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 19:17:41 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN>Impudites and Violent Words Since Charles is my ST I'd like to explain the point of view of a Impudite from the Superiors he'd mentioned. Here's a list of opinions of Average Impudites of violent words on their lifestyles (Can I have some extra EXP for this Chuck?) Average Impudite: "Humans are sheep man but God what useful sheep they are. Each of the little happy meals with legs is running around waiting to be raped, robbed, sucked dry of essence, or otherwise used and discarded like klennex. I don't kill mortals and I don't want to @&@* em off enough that they gang up on me but humans value only their lives really so as long as people are just having a bad time we can do jack what we want to the buggers." - -William the Bloody Impudite of Death Impudite of Cruelty: "I...hate...humans. I don't want to see them killed by any means no, that would just send them back into the stinking wheel of reincarnation where they would be out of my hands to PUNISH for the stink they've brought to the planet. THE WEAKNESS. No the best way to deal with humans is to keep them locked up in the basement where they're out the of the Light and give them a little bit of a taste of Hell in their lives til you can figure out a way to send them their permanately. It's fun." - -Golock, Impudite of Cruelty Bound for the entire time with his Master Impudite of Dark Humor "So I spent hours talking to Danny about how Tina was so amazingly &@*@*@@& and that she was so craving to get into his pants that it was a disservice for Dan not to cheat on his wife with her. Tina of course had AIDS! HA! And she gave it to him! Humans who die in jokes are benefitting us more the JOKEE than the essence than they can really give us. It's a small price to pay for the punchline...did I tell you about the Baptist preacher whom I shot after a rally against gays? It was funny because I did it in bed with his wife!" Tina, Knight of Derison Impudites of Death: "What? Your wondering how I can be an Impudite and just have gunned down an entire family of people? Oh well they'res a funny story behind that *BLAM BLAM BLAM*. Sorry that was their five year old, I only winged him. Well Saminga is real good to us that humans are as useful to us dead as alive. I mean we get all the friendship and sex out of corpses as well do living humans! I mean who needs a whiny mortal with their needs to blah blah sleep, blah blah food, blah blah stop peeling off my skin when you have zombies!" - -Merry, Impudite of Death Impudite of Nightmare: "I have looked into the hearts of mortals and I have culled forth from their nightmares images of the things that they most fear. I'm a psychologist by day and people trust me...I take the essence though they give me in their most intimate moments and I use it to cause the very fear they tell me. We are a symbiotic relationship that feeds me and makes me grow so that someday I may ascend to my mistress Beleth's highest ranks while mortals give into their deepest secret desires. To be tormented, horrofied, and driven insane as the insipid underserving apes that they are." - -Zygllyazxxx, Captain of Headhaunters Impudite of the War: "This is the War! The ultimate conflict between Good and Evil and humanity is the canon fodder and footsoldiers that we the Masters of it must drive to wage battle upon. I will gladly send humans to die in vast amounts under my command and I will torture them for the information I need but each is a valuable little soldier in the War. Those who choose to serve God I will give the honor of killing in a fair battle so that they have the dignity of knowing death at my hands rather than the pathetic wasting away Heaven would have for them!" - -Xanthoth, Favored Servitor of Baal - -Charlemagne _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 16:26:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> IN Game Line (And something that's been in my head) - --- Jo Hart wrote: > And any > heroic mortals who died before their time might be > potential hosts for > Kyrios of Laurence -- if they make especially > unlikely recoveries ... You read my mind. Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 07/29/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 16:33:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> The Nine Theses/Game Line stuff - --- Whistling in the Dark wrote: >The In Nomine collection hasn't been updated content->wise since Valentine's Day. This isn't a dogpile on >EDG, but the fact remains that the INC just isn't >being updated, to the point that Moe Lane is rabidly >campaigning for individual IN sites to close the gap. Well, it's a nice thing to say, but the *actual* reason is purely selfish. I have an obscenely high reading speed, a low threshold for boredom and a N-word for IN material. I would be a lot less vehement if all the new amateur stuff went to me, me, ME! ALL MINE! MWAHHH-HAH-HAH-HAH-HAH-HAHHHH!!!!!... Err, sorry about that. Anyway, I agree: no dogpile on EDG. Updating websites are _hard_: if it wasn't for the fact that I'd look like an idiot if I whined about nobody else updating their pages when I didn't do the same at least once a month, I'd be even more behind than I am... Hmm. Maybe my s u b conscious is using my stridency to flog my guilt and thus force me to update, thereby feeding my ego. Well, it wouldn't be the first time. ;) Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 07/29/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 18:00:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine News Bulletin, Sep. 30 -- Oct. 6 - --- Jo Hart wrote: > Can I make a suggestion? > > Stick to local news, from where you live. I _like_ this notion. I'm starting a game next month, after all. :) Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 07/29/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 18:05:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> IN Game Line (And something that's been in my head) - --- Eric Bertish wrote: >Wow, Moe, you're mellowing. Not only is this a post >where Belial *doesn't* die a gruesome or absurdly >creative death, but you're almost -- almost -- >sympathetic to him. > > Weird. Call it a freebie: I'm not _completely_ heartless, after all. (pause) And whaddya mean, 'absurdly creative'? It's always made sense in context. (another pauses) Well, maybe not the quantum black hole, but that was the only time... ;) Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 07/29/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 21:11:55 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> What if Uriel wore a dress, had poppies in her hair, and a magic wand? Hey guys here's a revise of an idea from long ago "Ozma visits Heaven" I'm going to drop on my players in very non-traditional campaign. Tell me what you think because despite the EXTREME violation of canon I think it has some salvagable ideas and interesting scenarios to put anyone's PCs through. Ozma Archangel of Purity "I will not fight and am resigned to my fate." The Lord works in mysterious ways, sometimes very mysterious. The Higher Heavens opened on a Sunday of the new millenium on the anniversary of Uriel's ascension to the Higher Heavens and with trumpeting fanfare from the Lord above the Archangel of Purity returned to Heaven... In the form of a 15 year old girl with poppies in her hair and a magic silver wand. The tiny ruler has quickly returned to her cathedral and cleaned it out considerably to become a much more attractive, homey, and otherwise unfoboding palace instead of the castle it once was. In answers to the Purity Crusade the Archangel of Purity simply answered "It was all a big misunderstanding that has since been rectified" and refuses to go into further detail but offers her questioners a cookie or lemonade. To say the Archangel of Purity has dramatically changed is an understatement not equalled since Eli said of the Big Bang "Man that was loud.". Uriel (now preferring to be called "Ozma" after a certain fictional character) has quickly assumed command of Heaven's peace faction and has proven herself even more pacifistic among angels than Novalis, leading to some considerable tension with his old friends and servitors in Heaven. Ozma has also taken to employing a considerable amount of sorcerers on the Earth and in the Marches where her policy has mostly been vast promotion of the relationship between Heaven and ethereals. Mostly it is restricted to modern ethereals due to the fact that very few of the "old school" trust the Warrior Archangel with good reason. A noted exception is the Seelie court of the fey who have started paying an equal tithe to Heaven as to Hell in exchange for similiar benifits that Beleth has long been giving the fey of the Unseelie. You can imagine how this confuses Khalid and Laurence. Ozma-Uriel is still a Malakim however and a very demanding superior that expects every one of her wishes to be obeyed to the letter and spirit. Those who think it's proper to wise off to their Superior usually find in the presence of such a personage they are unable to and end of completely converted to her point of view. Those of a boorish or violent mindset that refuse to adapt to the "new way of things" are very politely told to take a hike....and rumors of the Princess's ornament collection are rather strong in Heaven. Ozma appears usually as a girl of fifteen with poppies in her hair as stated but has been known to alternate her age with the situation to eight and sometimes twenty years of age. All appearences are astoundingly beautiful however with a lean towards the regal. In her natural form her black wings look both comforting, soothing, and inviting instead of the doombringing wrath of God that many feel is the nature of the Malakim. Uriel's infamous armor and sword having been passed on down to Laurence have given way to a plain white robe and silver wand. Dissonance It is dissonant for servitors of the Archangel of Purity to act with impure intent for any action upon mortals. Since anger and violence are often dependant on a selfish need for reaction it is very difficult for Servitors of Purity to perform any act of violence whatsoever. They also are amazingly well mannered, helpful, and totally confident of their cause. They have to be or they'd quickly descend into a steaming pile of dissonant sludge. Ozma of Heaven is a bit more forgiving of dissonance than old Uriel but expects even the slightest point to be worked off with a Quest attunement (see below) which have been known to soul-kill almost often as they heal. Choir Attunements: Seraphim: Seraphim of Purity are the most perfect angels in Heaven (at least in their mind) and fully expect to lead in any situation. A Seraphim can instinctively "sense the truth" of whatever option is best for Heaven in the options provided to him and are often called the Solomons of Heavens. Cherubim: Cherubim of Purity have been known to suround themselves with friends and prefer looking after large groups of mortals instead of normal ones, likeing it to being friends with kingdoms instead of lands. A Cherub of Purity can thus be attuned to more than one being without difficulty. Woe be the one who attunes himself frivoulously... Elohim: Elohim of Purity are fairly congenial and....happy people all the time. The legend goes that Ozma explained somehow logically that it was illogical to be anything but joyous even under the worst of conditions...this doesn't fit Ozma however or most bills of mental health (Serenity now, Insanity later) however because the Elohim dissonance and Purity conditions are so restrictive these Elohim don't usually even think about violating things. Elohim can tell what will make a mortal happier and more content with a glance. Ofanim: The Wheels of Purity are the Knights-Errant of Purity whom Queen Ozma routinely dispatches to deal with the icky situations that keep arising in her Father's Kingdom (the universe). They possess a sense very similar to Synchronity but without the teleportion ability to know where they are needed. Kyriotates: Kyriotates of Purity are very particular about their hosts even moreso than mortals so Princess Ozma has given them a very curious ability that whenever they depart a mortal host they will immediately heal of all wounds they presently suffer if they take them onto themselves though this is illusionary damage that will dissapear in 3 days. This ability can also be used on eyesight, cancer, and other heavy diseases. This has been termed the "Ragman" effect. Malakim: Malakim of Purity have the most Bizzare affection for the bodies of little girls, little boysm, and teenagers of guiless face (the names Trot, Betsy, Buttons, and of course Dorothy) are extremely common. They radiate an aura of honor an innocence that whenever they recieve a less than hospitable reaction roll they can immediately reroll and choose the better of the two. Even if found with a flaming sword over someone's partners dead body. Mercurians: Mercurians of Purity are the most polite beings in Heaven and immediately gain a 6/ in Savoir Faire and an intimate understanding of how best to approach someone in a way that won't be offensive or angering. Bright Lilim: Bright Lilim of Ozma have the worst restriction in Heaven as Ozma insists that they only take willing favors (this can be waved in EXCEPTIONAL circumstance) but each geas they take can be converted into essence (like a phantom reliquary) instead. Servitor Attunement Transformation A useful tool for dealing with mortals whom the Archangel of Purity wishes not to kill (i.e. all of them) and whom it is said that she can also perform the same transformation upon CELESTIALS but that is unsubstantiated. With the expenditure of five points of essence and a resisted will check an angel of Purity with this attunement can transform a human being or animals into an object of limited nature (cactus, statue, etc) for a short duration. The sucess roll works in reverse to how many rounds it will take to take effect (a 1 on it will take 6 rounds and a 6 is instaneous). The effect lasts for a number of days equal to the angel's celestial forces and can be done. Note that killing the angel who performed this will also stop the transformation and reverse it and it must be line of sight. Oblivion This ability allows a servitor of Ozma to wipe away with three points of essence any event in a mortals conciousness with a resisted willpower roll though it leaves a huge noticible gap. With five points it can be any event that has happened in the last year. For seven points of essence the Servitor of Purity can remove a year of existence from the person's life from birth til death but must know an exact time or simply wipe the mortal clean (a resisted willpower check must be made per year). Skills and Rites can be lost by this ability but not Attunements or Attributes. It is rumored Ozma posseses a fountain in her cathedral that is permanently penchanted with this attunement and insists all captured demons be brought to it where she wipes their memories clean to a state of purity so they have no reason to rebel against redemption. Quest This ability allows an angel to take a quest which he must fufill or suffer some unspeakable curse (usually discord) that is spoken of by Ozma at the beginning of the quest. The attunement must be given once every quest that is undertaken and as long as the angel is on it the Divine and Symphony will bequeath the angels portents and guidence to fufilling it but he will be constantly tormented by his own flaws in hopes of his overcomming them. This is most commonly given by Princess Ozma as a gift of attonement and if they suceed they will find all discord removed from them. It is believed Ozma has given this attunement to several demons not ready for redemption and though none have survived it is believed that any who complete their quest will become the purist of angels. Sorcery An attunement given only to favored servitors and soldiers this angelic attunement allows the person even if Celestial to learn how to use and wield sorcery which Ozma promotes heavily for her campaigns in the Marches and on Earth to improve humanity. Sorcerers of Purity are almost disgustingly self centered in what they believe to be right to be the only right way but what keeps them from dissonance is that they're usually right. Ozma supports excorcism, alchemy, and several of her own variants on Hellish paths. Distinctions Vassal of Purity The Angel of Purity with this distinction can detect any character flaw a person has that leads them away from Purity and how powerful that character flaw is with an accent on their most powerful (for instance a fat lech would get lust first and after he's convinced to be chaste may register next as Gluttonous). Friend of Oz The Friend of Oz immediately attracts a ethereal or sorcerer or number of ethereals and sorcerers equal to their forces in to their service. These assigned forces serve as servants and depending on Ozma's wishes can be extremely powerful in certain areas or generally stupid over all. Master of Emerald Cities The curiously named Attunement allows a Master of Purity the ability to radiate such warmth and goodness that any being must roll against the angel's willpower to be able to attack her under any circumstances. A demon faced with a character of pure intent to destroy him and with this distinction is advised to flee. Relations: Khalid and Laurence being former servitors of Uriel and fully of the belief their archangel was taken up for his holiness and now of the belief that he...err SHE has great powers and mindsets than any other in the world are allied to their Superior quite well...even if they can't agree with her policies and are struggling to figure out how the hell to rationalize it all how they can still be militants with her firmly allied to the Peace Camp. Michael and David as old friends of Uriel are alittle...unsettled by the change over their friend themselves but are deciding he...err SHE just needs to adjust a bit to the new world after paradise. Novalis and Blandine just love Ozma and they have plenty of parties where they talk about the boy Archangels! Dominic does not approve of her love of Eli's "toys" nor any of her other controversial decisions as he thinks while she is no danger of falling she is too leniant. Allied: Novalis, Eli (Novalis is allied to Ozma as is Laurence and Khalid though Khalid is leaning towards associated now) Associated: Blandine, Zadkiel, Christopher (David, Blandine, and Christopher are associated with Ozma) Hostile: Oh don't be silly Ozma can't be hostile! (Dominic is Hostile to Novalis though perhaps Coldly neutral is better since she can't fall) Base Invocation Chance: 3 Summoning Modifiers +1 A copy of any of the Oz books after Wizard +2 A baby or other total innocent +3 Reciting religeous passages of nonviolence and universal love +4 Two age old enemies embracing in Peace +5 A sincere total repentance of all sins. +6 an artifact of evil (i.e any weapon artifact) destroyed or made into something of peace If enough feedback arrives I'll give Superior opinions. Laurence: Umm most noble Teacher. I know you've just returned from communing with the Holiest of Holies and your really full of enlightment that you are to share with us all but....your really starting to creep me out here! "You remind me of Sir Hokus Sir Laurence. You'd do best to learn his restraint." *taps him on the nose with her wand.* _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 09:06:29 -0400 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: Re: IN> IN Game Line (And something that's been in my head) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 15:36:18 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> IN Game Line (And something that's been in my head) > From: "John J. Maurer, Esq." > > From: "Prodigal" > > > > > > Yes, we all felt shock and horror at the attack itself, but the > > > international shows of solidarity makes Flowers a contender for it in my > > > book. > > > > Er... You mean David, right? > > Not in this case. With the calls for trying to find a peaceful resolution to > the situation, the leading chrub of the peace faction strikes me as a more > natural candidate than a member of the war faction. No, I'd say Stone earns the spot: The general reaction to this event was a major rallying around the American Flag, as the nation united in grief and sorrow to find strength in each other. And there's the still majority opinion (around 68 to 70%) that this attack must be repaied in kind, which is another strong indication of the word of Stone. To be honest, the calls for peace aren't the vast majority of American's opinions. The average American feels angry and hurt, and is now ready to defend itself. Overall, I'd say Stone takes precedence over Flowers here. - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 01:31:24 +0000 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> What if Uriel wore a dress, had poppies in her hair, and a magic wand? I'm with Laurence on this one. Does she have a twin sister named Daisy who's a Demon Princess? Janet Anderson * * * * Beware the anger of a patient bard. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 02:44:07 +0100 From: Rhodri James Subject: Re: IN> IN Game Line In article , Charles Phipps wrote: > Guys I feel the need to speak up. More power to you for doing so. It's a shame that I disagree with you quite so totally :-) > THE NINE THESIS > 1. The Rulebook > The In Nomine main sourcebook is the most horrofically organized thing > I've ever seen in my life. Absolutely. > The art is wonderful and sticking the > Archangels and Angels/Demons and Demon Princes together is what a > NORMAL rulebook should do. Got to disagree with you about the art, I'm not a Smif fan I'm afraid. [snippety snip] > 2. The Rules > I'll say this up front I absolutely hate the In Nomine system and as > I've explained it above I still haven't figured out character creation > let alone how to run a honest to God game (Thank my ST for being very > generous) > The 3 1d6 is cute because it's 666 but it is not simpler its' confusing > as hell! With both of the above, I've got to seriously disagree with you. One of the players in my campaign has a very poor memory, hates new systems and usually ends up taking forever to create a new character. It took him about five minutes with the rulebook after coming up with the character concept to complete his design, and the d666 system is one of the very few ones that doesn't have to be explained to him again at the start of each session. A Daf-proofed system is not one to be set aside lightly! > Power, Armor, Vessel and Charisma ties and the relationship between > essence and forces all ties things too much together. Que? I think you're complaining here that the system is too systematically simple. Use GURPS if that bothers you. > The relationship between gaining skills, awards and experience points, > etc all have been outlined in the Gamemaster's handbook but that > information should have been given out in the main supplement! p202, "Rewards and Punishments". The GMG expands on this, as it should, and (wanting slower development) I do things differently anyway, but the information is there. > I understand Call of Cthulhu after reading it, I understood Star Wars > after reading it, I understood D&D vaguely, and I understand WHite Wolf > wonderfully but In Nomine again is hard to catch the drift of... Clearly our brains work differently. I haven't read either CoC or Star Wars, I understand D&D clearly and White Wolf not at all. > 3:) Index card sized character sheets > You'd think dealing with immortal omnipotent beings such as celestials > that you would have LARGER character sheets than this particular point. > However these things righteously suck. Only if you make the mistaken assumption that In Nomine is a complicated system with a large amount of information to record. It isn't, and there isn't. I don't use the character sheets provided for entirely different reasons, mostly that a pad of A4 is easier to find :-) > And not just for PCs who want to record information but also the method > for NPCS. > Underneath Lauren the Stripper after skills, attunements, etc we get a > few paragraphs that describe her appearence, personality, and > background all in one. > It would help if we adopted even D&D's (Not known for it's 3 dimensional > characters) method of Appearence:, Roleplaying Hints:, and History. I'd rather have more than a few paragraphs, but beyond that I don't feel the need for greater structure. The information is more likely to stick with me if presented as a story than as factlets, as it happens. > 4:) Awful Sourcebooks [snip] > The sheer banality of saying "what we already know" in these sourcebooks > and I suspect the rest was amazing. I mean let's compare the sections > of the Seraphim of the rulebook with the writeup in the Angel Player's > guide.... > There's really no new information there. Ah, but there is, and I'm not talking the expanded use of Resonance abominations! There may not -- and IMHO should not -- be anything shockingly new and different in the books, but they do offer more observations on what it is to be (for example) a seraph, what they do and don't have problems with, what some of the more murky phraseology in the main rulebook actually means, and so on. All stuff that a thoughtful player or referee can pick over to "improve the resolution" of their characters. > I'm glad I had the books but they were frankly more boring than > anything. Where's the Nephilim organization about to take over or the > "Freak Legion" aspects of them? I am so, *so* glad that no secret Nephilim conspiracy that hadn't even been hinted at in the main rulebook (and somehow evaded a few millennia of celestial intelligence work) appeared. > Why did the Grigori harbor such putrid @@(@? a) It's not clear that they did (or had the opportunity) b) They loved them (it's that selfless thing angels do, remember) c) Do you really need me to make up something else? > 5:) The Superior Guides [snip] > Superiors 1 however I'm not unhappy I bought and it had considerable > info and cool works of art but again... > "What you see is what you get" > Dominic it turns out is GASP an okay cool guy but a hardass (What his > writeup says he is), Laurence is this Catholic Knight boyscout > (Surprise), and Michael the Most Holiest Defeater of Lucifer really is > only leading his own private war on Hell. > Again so freaking what? Again, had their been a major overturning of previously established information I would have been upset. The guides are for amplification, not innovation! > I mean I know angels are supposed to be One dimensional as part of their > words but I was hoping for alittle bit more like Michaelite secret > societies devoted to Michael as Mithras, Bringing World peace, > diversity here. > Like Clanbooks for Vampire or whatnot. Gack. You and I are clearly looking for such different things from supplements that I'm not even sure it's worthwhile us continuing to discuss this! > 6:) The Revelations Cycle > I love these books, I honestly do. I don't. They didn't actually form a coherent cycle, they collected up random fragments of information that should have been (and later were) broken up into different, coherent sourcebooks. For example, where do I find the drugs rules? In Night Music, how obvious. When a plot did emerge (in book 4), it was awful. It relied on too many people being too dumb for too long, then it railroaded the PCs (particularly in book 5). The (lack of) concept of the Rev Cycle is, for me, higher up the "needs to be taken out and shot" list than the APG, and that's saying something. > 7:) Directionless > The In Nomine game just seems to me to be floating along no matter how > many ways you slice it. Okay let's write corporal players guide > now....now ethereal etc, > There's no sense of urgency and one of the coolest concepts of the War > "the stalemate" has never actually been touched upon. People who > complain about "too much" background information may look at me as an > average gamer. They've been going at it for millennia. One of the major players thinks on literally geological timescales. Of course there's no bloody sense of urgency! I also thought that the APG, IPG and some of the Superiors books made it abundantly clear that the War is not a stalemate. The situation between the two sides and multiple factions is too fluid for that. The dilemma that both sides face is that it isn't clear who will win, not that it's clear no one will. > It would help the In people to drop a few plotlines here and there and > see them come to fruitation later on. This was, I thought, part of what the Cycle approach was about; drop in plotlines that would take many books to come to fruition and which would change the state of the War. It's not what happened, but I thought it was the plan. > 8:) Religeon > I appreciate In Nomine not trying to be offensive like the French Game > while still maintaining some of it's satiric elements along with > reverence.... > Old In (not the French but first) reminds me of Dogma and present > In....well that's the problem (Superiors 3 Excepted) OK, I didn't understand this at all. Are you complaining that IN has all the satirical irrevence of soggy cardboard? Then play with the contrast knob on your campaign. I actually like it where it is, since that makes IN even-handedly heretical to all the major Western relig*i*ons. > Angels can and might interestingly be critters which fit into any > religeon (including atheism) but it might be nice to so completely > downplay it that it never comes up. I fail to see how you can try to play angels and downplay their nature. You are at the very least defining their nature by playing them! > You could if you want invent an entirely fictional "angelic" and Demonic > spirituality...the GM's Guide goes into this and that makes it one of > the most fun (along with Superiors 3) but more could have been done > with it. Personally I think that's something for each GM to decide for themselves, as it delves deeply into the nature of the Symphony. > Liber Religeons talking about Khalid's Jihad groups and how they react > to the withdrawal of their Support, Laurence and the Catholic Church's > army described in Night Music (WHAT THE *HELL* was that doing there? > Really?), and General Celestial opinions such as Wicca and Angels. I think a Liber Fides would be a good thing, not least because there are a lot of real-world faiths out there that I know I don't know enough about to even touch on in a game. > We arn't so utterly PC to create a game about angels I think that we can > avoid things completely, also I think optional rules about Destiny and > Fate like the resonence in GM might be helpful. Que? > 9:) Untouched History > The In Nomine world is rich with history but again it's just hanging > there it seems. IN history could do with some expansion, I agree. The emphasis has always been on modern-day gaming, but the thought of playing angels and demons in all sorts of periods is quite interesting. A campaign I've played in has taken place mostly during World War 2, for example. The trouble is, the further from the present day you get the more information you need to have or generate on what celestial politics and the fortunes of War were. - -- Rhodri James *-* Wildebeeste herder to the masses If you don't know who I work for, you can't misattribute my words to them ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 20:48:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> I'm a fair man, I like to think. There are those among you planning to play in my upcoming game (due to the events of the last week, I've been distracted from coordinating same: my apologies). To you, I say: Never let it be said that I've never given fair warning. ;) Moe "Yup, it's a plot device." Lane The Limbo Cannon These relics are interesting, to say the least. They have the ability to temporarily send someone to Limbo, regardless of whether they have a functioning Heart or not ... or even if they happen to be celestial. This makes them popular. They also have a distressing tendency to implode. This makes them unpopular, too. A Limbo Cannon looks like an electrical flame-thrower, more or less: there's a backpack and one needs two hands to use it, at least. Instead of napalm, however, what comes out is a pulse of purplish-green light that can send a living target on a temporary tour of nothing (roll versus straight Precision to hit). The target must make a Will Roll at -4 or immediately be banished. Luckily, use of this relic will not sever a celestial's link to his or her Heart, or even cause any kind of damage, so the effects are only temporary. Use the CD of the failed Will Roll to determine the target's duration in Limbo: unfavorable Interventions will mean a visit of one corporeal month. The target will not be aware of the time spent, and will reappear in exactly the same spot and condition as when he or her left. Oddly enough, they will also find themselves fully stocked in Essence when they come out .... or possibly even covered with a dose of Primordial Clay. The above is one of the side effects of using this relic: another, more troublesome problem is that the basic design is not too stable. A natural 12 on the original Precision roll will cause the relic to flare: everyone within 10 yard-equivalents of the Cannon must roll against Will -8 or go to Limbo. All in all, this is sufficiently troublesome enough that the facts that a Limbo Cannon may only fire once per hour, or that each shot requires 3 Essence, pale in comparison. I bet that you thought that Vapula came up with this one, huh? Well, actually, you'd be right. However, he's not the only one to manufacture these amusing little plot devices, so you'd be wrong, too. Jean would very much like to fix the bugs in this device, and testing it is the only way to do so - besides, the worst that can happen is that the tester pops out of existence for a few days. Considering what normally happens when Vaputech goes badder, that's not so worrying, right? The Limbo Cannon Relic/6 (oddball Song, 3 Essence per use) 18pt Activation Time: one hour -3 Convenience: Bulky -1 Use Restriction: Precision roll -1 Visibility: Automatically Detectable -3 "Harms" user on a natural 12 (special limitation) -1 Total: 9pt ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 07/29/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2381 ********************************