in_nomine-digest Monday, September 24 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2388 In this digest: IN> Re: IN Dark Ages IN> In_nomine calendars Re: IN> In_nomine calendars IN> Iron Rev 4 Voting Re: IN> In_nomine calendars IN> Ozma's Ethereal opinions Re: IN> Ozma's Ethereal opinions IN> A funny idea I had for heaven IN> Paradise International adventure seed Re: IN> In_nomine calendars IN> Thy're back... IN> When I grow up, I want to be a....Part XIV IN> How "adult" should In Nomine be? Re: IN> How "adult" should In Nomine be? IN> I wish I'd grown up.... IN> Bad guy? Good guy? You be the judge Re: IN> How "adult" should In Nomine be? Re: IN> How "adult" should In Nomine be? Re: IN> Ozma's Ethereal opinions ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 22:09:52 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Re: IN Dark Ages > Personaly I would do this differently. In Nomine is ultimately about the > battle for souls, the war will be won or lost this way. Lip service is made to this in various places. In practice, In Nomine is about Angels and Demons fighting each other, chasing after relics, acquiring power, attempting to convert members of the opposition, and so on. As a simple exercise, compare the amount of space spent on Outcasting/Falling in the APG (16 pages), and redemption in the IPG( also 16 pages) and humans changing sides in the CPG (3 sidebars - to be fair, 2 of them are a page each). If you want to write everything necessary for IN to actually be concerned with humans, this would be wonderful, and I would be fascinated, but until that is done humans are at best a way of keeping score and at worst irrelevant/scenery. > So I would highlight major shifts in human history as much as shifts in > Celestial events. But why? It's just re-inventing the wheel. This exists in countless other gaming systems. Given that IN is owned by SJG, using GURPS as a resource folder is the simplest way to handle historical IN; all you need do is use the conversion rules in GIN and you've got settings from throughout history. We aren't going to get many IN products in the near future - so they need to be things which are essential, rather than nice or convenient. Ditto, anything done of Websites/ebooks needs to be of guaranteed usefulness simply because of the work involved. The slain Superiors don't exist anywhere else; their Servitors still exist in the contemporary setting - usually in service to someone else, but not always - consider the Tsayadim! Who would be interesting to play in a current day campaign. James. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 22:11:24 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> In_nomine calendars Will we see a 2002 In Nomine Calendar? James. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 11:45:39 -0500 From: Andrew Hackard Subject: Re: IN> In_nomine calendars At 10:11 PM 09/23/01 +1100, james walker wrote: >Will we see a 2002 In Nomine Calendar? Nope. - -- =================================== = 11 September 2001 = = Requiescant in Pace = =================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 13:46:06 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: IN> Iron Rev 4 Voting Sorry it's taken me so long to post this, folks. I've been trying to configure a RAID card for my computer all weekend,and apparently Windows ME doesn't like the hardware... DEADLINE: For simplicity's sake, you have until midnight Sept 30 to vote; results will be posted Monday, Oct 1. HOW TO VOTE: Send me private email and rate each entry (BY NAME!) on a scale of 1-10, with 10 being best and 1 being worst. Yes, you can give multiple entries the same value, though I'd rather you didn't. I plan to tally the votes by simple averaging, so if I get a bunch of fives and sixes my life becomes more complicated. Which leads me to... ARBITRARY TIE-BREAKING RULE: If two or more entries are tied for any place, I decide who wins that spot. Since I don't have an entry I think this is fair. SEND A SELF-ADDRESSED STAMPED ENVELOPE TO: ebertish@hotmail.com, with the words "Iron Rev 4 Voting" in the subject. You can find the entries at: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/Ironrev4.html - -- Casca _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 10:54:22 -0700 From: Sean McCarthy Subject: Re: IN> In_nomine calendars Our spies report that on 11:45 AM 9/23/2001 -0500, Andrew Hackard said: >At 10:11 PM 09/23/01 +1100, james walker wrote: >>Will we see a 2002 In Nomine Calendar? > >Nope. It's a good thing I bought five of the 2001 calendars, then, to tide me over until a new one is produced. Er...wait...that doesn't work... Sean ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 14:22:21 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Ozma's Ethereal opinions >That's kinda funny, considering that Athena was Zeus' favorite child, >and >in most legends he pampered her. Certainly however the Gods are of the Greek are fickle creatures indeed and the goddess of law and wisdom is well aware that whatever she might have felt for her father it is better that pragmatism prevail over personal feeling. The Grey eyed goddess most especially when dealing with Heaven, besides I understand she's taken quite a shine to Laurence. "You know Swords don't go very well without shields...*nudge nudge* *wink wink*." - -Charlemagne _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 11:32:16 -0700 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: IN> Ozma's Ethereal opinions >the goddess of law and wisdom is well aware that whatever she might have >felt for her father it is better that pragmatism prevail over personal >feeling. True enough. Athena was nothing if not pragmatic. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 14:44:46 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> A funny idea I had for heaven This explains a problem I had with Heaven and Hell.... "Dick" Saint of the Sword Cor-4 Str-8 Agi-8 Eth-3 Eth-4 Pre-8 Cel-2 Will-2 Per-6 Artifacts: Holy Sword of Laurence Himself 6/, Blessed Armor 6/, Magic ring that holds them until he twists it 3/ Vessel: Young short geek 3/ Role: Computer Nerd 3/, Status 3/ Skills: Computer 3/, Farming 3/, Langauges (French 4/, Latin 2/), Large Weapon (BroadSword 6/, Jousting Lance 3/), Poetry 3/, Riding 3/, Savoir Faire 3/, Tactics 4/ Songs: Song of Protection (Corporeal 3/), Song of Healing (Corporeal 3/) Dick Patterson is a Third Crusade Scholar at Cambridge University working on describing the detail after detail which lead to the fiasco that was Richard the Lionheart's life. Dick it should be noted sucks at history everywhere else and doesn't speak that good of English despite having a roll of it which lead most to believe he's the son of a French family....which is true. Also Dick shows surprising knowledge of the intricacies of knightly combat which occasionally due not mesh with his resume....also knowledge of pig farming. In truth Dick Patterson has a very good reason to know exactly all about Richard the Lion Heart, Soldier of the War's life, he actually WAS Richard the Lionheart in a previous life. The glorious combats, the conquests, the fame, and the troubedeurs he remembers with intimate detail and Laurence has since assigned him this duty in order to clearly figure out just what a screwup he is. Laurence supported the Crusades and gave Richard in a secret ceremony the Sword Excalibur in a holy rite that he hoped would make this Crusade different from the massacre of the First and the frank...failure of the Second. Richard suceeded beyond Laurence's wildest expectations in becoming a symbol of the perfection of chivalry and inspiring thousands upon thousands of knights to become champions of christiandom and decency even to this century. Unfortunately Laurence overlooked the fact that by sending Richard against Muslims who were not by and by a ruthless and evil enemy Laurence was sending Richard to his doom. While Richard achieved his destiny the French Knight achieved his fate on the plains of Acre where he causally buthcered thousands in the name of his destiny. Laurence, horrofied abandoned Richard and thus the Soldier of the War did not suceed in taking Jerusalem. It is lucky that Kronos was not looking for a pig farmer named Richard Champagne when he was hoping to gaurentee Richard's fall to Hell in his next life. Yves made sure Laurence found not his lost soldier either for revenge or hopes of redeeming him and Richard Champagne married, had three children, and allowed a friend to escape Serfdom over himself leading to seven more years of agony under a terrible overlord. When Richard reached Heaven, he remembered his previous lives and Laurence had a long...long...long talk with him. With the return of Khalid to Heaven's grace Richard's place of prominence in the Cathedral of the Sword has become a point of contention between the old friends. Laurence has therefore agreed that the value of the Lionheart as a symbol is not worth the villifying of the Muslim world and despite that Nybbas has been doing enough of a job portraying Richard as a sodomizing pedophile psycho who bankrupted his country Laurence has agreed to give the unvarnished truth via "Dick's" research to as many people as possible. Dick who'd rather be crusading for Laurence or working on the farm reports is fairly resigned to working on his massive field correction of Richard the Lionheart's life. His only point of contention is with the Muslim chronicler who is writing his own account of the Crusades which frequently contradicts his. Sal is so bloody arrogant.... - -Charlemagne _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 16:18:02 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Paradise International adventure seed Paradise International Paradise International is one of the world's largest charities for nations in need and it's missionary efforts are lauded the entire world over. The organization was originally founded by a Catholic Priest and two of his associates of different Christian faiths that to this day it's ties to Churches around the world is incredible. Laurence wants to know why the Hell this organizations's headquarters is a tether to the War. He discovered it rather oddly when he decided that such a god fearing organization deserved his support and he sent one of his Malakim, Sister Theresa to try and get a position with the group to expand it's funding tenfold. It's rather lucky that the current head of the organization Bernado Creed was present to meet her...and he resonated as a Balseraph. Since Laurence had specified meet with the man and talk about the organization Sister theresa was fairly tempted to hog tie him and torture him for information but the fact the Symphony was so rotted around this place gave her the impression that she should take the information directly back to Laurence. Her elderly vessel gave her an excuse to leave before the Liar melted her heart with promises about starving orphans. Jean has already tried hacking into their systems but the entire place's files are in Vapulan tech and try as he might they disentagrate everytime he tries to make them decode. Marc has proven alittle more lucky in the organization's examination (and @&@(@@* off because alot of his companies have been donating a considerable tithe to the group for the past few decades!) and discovered Paradise Intenational's charity impulses can't be all good because the company is recieving extensive amounts of laundered money from Mammon, Baal and Asmodeus based government groups, and Valefor involvement suspected offshore companies. Unfortunately this can't be proven and Marc won't take direct action.... Laurence: May I ask why? Against Hell nearly any means is justified! Manufacture the evidence if you need it! Marc: It's not the evidence that I'm worried about, it's that Paradise international is a front for a Dead Man's switch economically speaking. Laurence: Why do I feel I'm not going to like this. Marc: The organization has infiltrated itself so well into community organizations and it's "board of trustees" are so incredibly wealthy...if it goes down several governments and economies will completely collapse. Laurence: Someone dropped the ball here. Marc: You could say that. Baal with his usual flair for the Dramatic has been preparing this multi-hell arc for sometime with the aid of Alaemon to cover up any potential leaks of this rather massive international "charity" organization that has addicted it's clients. Laurence's finding out now was fortious because it was starting to grate on the Balseraph's patience.... He isn't sure exactly what he's going to do with the device right now. Blow up civilization in several regions and create an international recession elsewhere, use it as a threat to make Laurence swear an oath to face him in "honorable battle" where Baal is sure to win and hopefully get a new Hellish commander more to his tastes, or let Laurence throw as much as he could at him with the knowledge the vast majority of the employees of the Company are well meaning people manipulated by the Second greatest Liar of them all. After all Paradise is the one place that Humans aren't welcome thanks to Ophis. - -Charlemagne _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 19:06:23 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> In_nomine calendars On Sun, 23 Sep 2001, Andrew Hackard wrote: > At 10:11 PM 09/23/01 +1100, james walker wrote: > >Will we see a 2002 In Nomine Calendar? > > Nope. I'd buy it, though.... - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! :: Prayers are like junk mail for Jesus ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 11:39:31 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Thy're back... It's amazing how many Soldiers Uriel had. Not surprising really, given that he was Commander of the Armies of God; but given that Europe only had a population of a few million when he was recalled, you wouldn't think he could have acquired so many. Of course, many of them headed to Heaven after they died. They had earned it, after all. Mostly. Of course, the Purity Crusade had drawn a few to their Fates, as well as their Destinies. The end of the Crusade meant that many didn't achieve either. And then there were the Saints. Laurence was a little concerned when the flow of Soldiers of Purity entering Heaven became a trickle. He wasn't sure whether to be relieved or horrified when he found that Uriel's Soldiers had decided en masse to become dream-shades when they died so that they could continue fighting beside their patron angels. There's no knowing what he'd have thought if he'd thought through the implications of hundreds of Soldiers of Purity in the Marches. It's not that they're incredibly skilled (although they are) or know the Marches like the back of their hands (though they do). The thing is, they've been picking up tricks from the Pagan Soldiers. Timing re-incarnations is a trick the Pagan gods learnt long ago. It's necessary for keeping morale up; their servants really want to make sure that they'll be in the same regions/time periods as their friends and lovers - - or alternatively, a long way away! It took a while for the Tsayadim to set it up. Making sure that all of the Dream-shades would be born in the same general area; that they'd keep their Songs and attunements; that they'd be able to recover their memories; that this would create a crisis of faith - that sort of thing. In all, it took 13 centuries. But now... Rumours are starting. Demons come out of trauma babbling about Soldiers using strange attunements which sound suspiciously like those Uriel handed out. Tsayadim seem to have more of a grip on the modern world, and have been speaking to humans with a degree of familiarity which they normally reserve for each other. How did you know that they were Tsayadim? Well, we recognised a couple. The others? Well, they were clearly angels of Purity; the Tsayadim treated them as equals and they only do that to other angels of Purity, so they must be Tsayadim, mustn't they? After all, there aren't any other angels of Purity, are there? More thoughtful demons are wondering about the Fall of the Malakim. Kobal and Malphas fooled Heaven, they fooled Hell; if they fooled Uriel, wouldn't he come back? Maybe he didn't see any reason to leave when he found out it was a hoax? And the body count of demons continues to grow, as Roland and Artos lead the Soldiers of Purity into battle. James. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 13:47:16 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> When I grow up, I want to be a....Part XIV When I grow up, I want to be a Pachadite. It's a terrible thing, to serve Nightmares when you only possess a couple of Forces. Your daily job is to terrify beings with twice as many Forces as yourself. True, you can concentrate on children - a much more even competition. Still, demonlings of Nightmares are the only ones who will be routinely scared of humans. it's not just the mundanes, after all. Roaming Beleth's Marches are some of the mightiest humans in Hell's service - Dreamshades who have served Beleth for hundreds or even thousands of years, rewarded well with Rites, Songs and Attunements, maybe even a Vessel. Soldiers of both sides suffer nightmares, and are drawn into Beleth's realm; Sorcerers spend most of their sleeping hours here. Saints, particularly Michael's, can take advantage of their need to sleep by using their dreamscapes as bait, and troll for infernals. Every time the demonling enters a Dreamscape, he'll wonder if it's going to be the last thing he'll ever do - or maybe it'll be worse than death - and he doesn't have any essence because he just spent it on the Song so he could enter the Dreamscape But there are other ways to terrify. For starters, being terrified yourself. A demonling whose in a panic because he's heard a rumour that Malakim are cruising this part of the Vale can panic all those around him, no matter how strong they are. A wise demonling will notice this, and remember. And develop this skill. If you can't terrify your victim, why not get him to terrify himself? Before entering a Dreamscape, the demonling can modify his appearance to be a starving child or pet, with the image continually decaying over time. Even if the demonling does nothing else while in the Dreamscape, the human will be disturbed by the image, and may attempt to help the demonling. Watching the demonling 'die' and then fade away (as the Song of Dreams ends) will darken the humans thoughts and dreams - especially if they tried to help and must come to terms with their failure. Of course, this requires an understanding of the human psyche, something these demonlings will rapidly acquire. Once they know the weak points, they will tend to eschew less subtle ways of terrifying humans, partly from pride, mostly from a knowledge of the dangers involved. Over the centuries, the demonling will make countless humans pay for his fear of them. Until he is ready to become a demon - a subtle demon, a sneaky demon, a hateful demon. Let the failures become Calabim, the psychotics become Habbalah or Balseraphs. The demonling has earned the rank of Pachadite, and humanity will rue his skill. ========================================================================== DARKNESS Alone of the Bands, Pachadim do not gain a bonus to any Songs due to their Band. Given that the Ethereal Song of Darkness gives a bonus to Nightmares, here are some variants for the other realms; The targets may resist with a Will roll, and the Songs have a duration of CD hours: Corporeal: Known as the Song of Gloom, this variant darkness the light reflected of the target(s). The demon may affect a number of targets equal to the CD.If they fail, those who view them will perceive them as more threatening - anyone looking at a target must make a Perception roll; success allows them to see that "the lighting just doesn't suit them"; on a failure subtract the CD of the perception roll from the viewers' reaction roll. Celestial: Known as the Song of Blindness, this variant prevents the target from recognising actions or events which contradict their current fears - although they are seen, they don't emotionally register. Bonus: Pachadim (these variants only) Essence required: 1. Degree of Disturbance: None. ========================================================================= James. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 00:28:38 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> How "adult" should In Nomine be? This is a question that's been bugging me for sometime and I think since we're discussing In Nomine and it's direction that we should ask a bit more. How "adult" should In Nomine be? We've already dealt with In Nomine's religeous theme being for a slightly more mature type of player than regular. Andrephalus and other characters also deal with fairly serious issues. However In Nomine: America has been a hand far lighter than the issue was handled in Europe where from what little I've read the word "adult" doesn't begin to describe the satirical elements. In Nomine has mostly managed to tip toe itself on the issue by walking a tightrope with being respectful of the subject matter while doing a sendup of the stuff (The Kevin Smith school of thought) but I was curious if people might want to adjust the level a slight bit. Up or down because Demons and Angels do compartmentalize our most deepest desires and problems. Issues of Drugs, Violence (The Genocide of Wari in Final Revelations I always liked), Sex, langage and others all have been dealt with in In Nomine and I'd to hear how your games deal with it... and if you'd like a change on the matter. - -Charlemagne _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 23:39:42 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> How "adult" should In Nomine be? Charles Phipps wrote: > How "adult" should In Nomine be? It's never going to be allowed to be "adult," at least in published materials. Superiors 3 originally had some Demon Princes quoted using racial epithets, and these were edited out because they might be offensive. (Demon Princes from Hell using bad words....shocking!) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 13:52:48 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> I wish I'd grown up.... There's one band a demonling cannot choose to be. ========================================================================== "I remember Lurz." "My memories are scattered, disjointed. I remember him wandering the streets of Shal-Mari wearing a battered, stinking raincoat; but I don't know where he got it or why he wore it. I remember him being kicked out of a casino on The Strip; remember him eating at a grotty restaurant. I remember the first time he saw a Lilim. I think he ended up owing her in return for finding out where Tempters come from. I think. It was after that meeting that he travelled until he found the Guild House. He spent years watching it; he even acquired a few geases in return for all of the essence he acquired over that year. Eventually he mustered up the courage to go inside. His geas gems acted as a passport of sorts. As he wandered the main room, seeing what was on offer, the desire to be a Lilim, to be courted and desired grew to too strong to deny. He smiled as the demons running the stalls offered to buy his geas gems; easily avoided the demons who hoped to force him to invoke the geases on their behalf by threatening to invoke them by having the Lilim make the demon's life misery. He learnt about the Waiting Room; that anybody could queue to seek a boon from Lilith. He found it; he waited. His handful of geas gems ended up being frittered away, as he bought his way forward on the queue; essence was spent as fast as he acquired it. Eventually he was in the first third of the queue, but despaired of getting any further. A Lilim, entering the waiting room, and sweeping the queue, came up to him: 'you are tired of waiting? You will owe me greatly if I take you to Lilith!' He nodded, and left the queue, following her. She smiled, and turned to the petitioner who had been standing behind him - a small geas chain appeared on the petitioners wrist, and the Lilim wandered off, pocketing her new geas gem. Sighing, Lurz headed back to the start of the queue. I think Lurz ended up owing a geas to a Lilim to let him stand in front of her, so that only the mightiest demons could push past them. Certainly he was in the queue a shorter time; and for some reason his guardian Lilim listened to him as spoke of the tricks which were used in the queue. When he finally got to the front of the queue the geas he owed was gone; but I got the impression that she didn't mind. And so he met Lilith, who smiled sadly and shook her head when he made his request. Begging, crying, he spoke of what he had learnt; the deals he had struck, the potential he had. And Lilith listened. The Calabite bouncers moved nervously; should they have already thrown him out? But they waited as Lilith listened. And finally Lilith nodded, and picked him up, enfolding him, taking her inside herself - and that is how Lurz died." "Yes, I have his memories. Yes, his Forces became mine. So? Do you really think I would buy his smelly old raincoat? Ah! You think that I would want it destroyed, that I am ashamed to have once been a demonling. Silly girl, why would I be ashamed? I am not Lurz, never was, any more than you are whatever Damned Souls were used by Mother to make you. You'll have to try better than that, sister......" James. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 01:36:26 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Bad guy? Good guy? You be the judge Geoffrey Pooka Free agent for Heaven Cor-2 Str-4 Agi-4 Eth-3 Int-8 Pre-4 Cel-3 Will-7 Per-9 Vessel: Human 4/ (+2 Charisma) Artifacts: Flaming Sword cane 3/ that appears as nail file in the corporeal planes Skills: Dodge 2/, Fast Talk 6/, Lying 4/, Seduction 4/, Short Weapon (Saber 3/) Savoir Fair 2/ Songs: Song of the Pooka 6/, Song of Unnoticibility 4/, Song of Light (Ethereal 5/), Song of Motion (Ethereal 4/) Attunements: Hunt Special Rites * Make someone look completely idiotic * Slay an evil Creature Some would call Geoffrey a traitor to the Ethereal People but Geoffrey prefers to refer to himself as a free agent in a unique position to benifit from helping "the Old School". Geoffrey had the fortune or misfortune to be born of the dream of the fey when a bit of Christian revisionalism had been done and the fey were the hidden children of Adam and Eve before the Fall. In effect Geoffrey's first memory was that he did not know good and evil and was blessed by God with the ability to get away with anything. Encounters with the Seelie and Unseelie courts did not diverse him of his opinion that he was a child of Adam and Eve because frankly it made perfect sense his being a dream instead of a child of a mortal couple. Try and follow a pooka's logic-because nothing else in the universe made sense, it had to be wrong. Hence it was probably a good idea to seek out Heaven's forces and surviving a few narrow brushes with the Tsaydim and the Order of the Eternal Sword he decided that the situation deserved some special merit. It's not exactly sure what happened to this day but apparently Geoffrey infiltrated the Unseelie Courts of Beleth, gathered a small army together of ethereals for assault on a Tether of the Sword, then promptly had the Unseelie switch sides in mid battle and delivered with illusionary weapons into the hands of the waiting Malakim. Laurence when summoned agreed to listen to the the Pooka's words which was an offer to the Archangel of the Sword. In exchange for formenting alittle chaos for hell aligned ethereals in the Marches and serving as a diplomat to the courts of the ethereal gods and "keeping an eye on things" Laurence would accept him as a servitor. Laurence isn't quite sure how things have progressed from this point but somehow he's bent the rules enough that he's allowed "his ethereal" to go onto the Earth for several carefully supervised missions where the man has politely termed "raised havok" (he even provided him the vessel), he's awarded him the Hunt attunement, and also provided him with one of his basic rites. Geoffrey frankly loves his service to Heaven and is hoping to either A:) Bring some more ethereals into Laurence's service B:) Have this revelation blow up in a particularly public place to teach his Archangel some humility. Of course the last part is suicidal for his lifestyle if not himself (working for an Angel who believes you have no soul is not the healthiest of professions if it is a worthwhile one) but it might be the most satisfying. Really Blandine could have told Laurence that pooka always get the better of a deal, it's their nature. The Song of the Pooka allows Geoffrey to assume any animal form from a mouse to an elephants with a sucessful skill roll though not extinct ones for some reason (or Geoffrey would make it a habit of appearing in Dinosaur form in Tokyo least once for some demon chomping-he's glad because that would end his service to Heaven toot sweet) and the song of Unnoticibility lowers a mortal's perception score for the skill total that if a mortal is reduced to zero a Pooka can do literally ANYTHING to them without noticing. - -Charles Phipps "I don't have trouble meeting women but unfortunately Fairy Princesses are hard to introduce to your parents." _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 01:01:41 -0700 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> How "adult" should In Nomine be? > Charles Phipps wrote: > > How "adult" should In Nomine be? > > > It's never going to be allowed to be "adult," at least in published > materials. Superiors 3 originally had some Demon Princes quoted using > racial epithets, and these were edited out because they might be > offensive. (Demon Princes from Hell using bad words....shocking!) > > -David ha ha ha . . . so much for Evil. I guess it depends on how much SJGames wants to market a game where you play a Demon at 12 year olds instead of 18+ year olds. - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd "Être aimé n'est rien, c'est être préféré que je désire." - -André Gide ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 10:07:42 +0100 From: Omentide Subject: Re: IN> How "adult" should In Nomine be? >This is a question that's been bugging me for sometime and I think since >we're discussing In Nomine and it's direction that we should ask a bit more. > >How "adult" should In Nomine be? Depends what you mean by adult and in what circumstance. Because In Nomine deals with issues of religion and morality it is a game I would be hesitant to play with minors but this does depend on their age and/or maturity. In Nomine handles the religion side fairly carefully, in a sense the Big Guy has been written out and specific issues of the three central religions are only touched on lightly. Even so I know some people who will not go near In Nomine on religious grounds, and more than one who initialy thought this way, tried it out and found the game was not as he thought. If you mean should In Nomine books contain more so called 'adult' material, they my thought is no. If you mean can the game be played with adult content, well yes of course it can. If you want to inlude Andrealphan or Samingan rites in your game there is nothing stopping you but I would not want this in any published material. It is simply not necessary and could tip In Nomine towards being a horror game which ultimately it is not. I think this sort of Adult material can be safely left to Kult and game modules such as Masks of Nyalarthotep. >We've already dealt with In Nomine's religeous theme being for a slightly >more mature type of player than regular. Andrephalus and other characters >also deal with fairly serious issues. > >However In Nomine: America has been a hand far lighter than the issue was >handled in Europe where from what little I've read the word "adult" >doesn't begin to describe the satirical elements. The satire really belongs in INS / MV. >In Nomine has mostly managed to tip toe itself on the issue by walking a >tightrope with being respectful of the subject matter while doing a sendup >of the stuff (The Kevin Smith school of thought) but I was curious if >people might want to adjust the level a slight bit. I would agree that In Nomine has been careful not to offend and walked a tightrope of being respectful. I do not think In Nomine is doing a send up of religion and religious issues. If it were it would be a very poor imitation of what the French managed to do with INS / MV. I do not run, write or play In Nomine as a satirical game and have never come across a game played this way. >Up or down because Demons and Angels do compartmentalize our most deepest >desires and problems. Only on a very simplistic level. Angels and demons tend to be prretty black and white on issues of morality, desires and problems. The discord / dissonance mechanic enforces this and quite often so does band / choir and superior. Humans are far more complex. >Issues of Drugs, Violence (The Genocide of Wari in Final Revelations I >always liked), Sex, langage and others all have been dealt with in In >Nomine and I'd to hear how your games deal with it... I have usually done In Nomine games fairly gritty. I tend not to write sex or language etc into the game but I would not stop players adding this is they choose to do this. Then again there is no reason why players cannot do this in any other game - come on, you can have sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll in Shadowrun. As a MiB most of the In Nomine games I write (tabletop RPG and Live Action) need to be suitable for a convention or other public event so yes I am a little careful about what content I use because I do not want to start excluding players on grounds of age. At the same time I would not be happy about seeing a 10 year old in an In Nomine game any more than I would be happy about seeing the same person in a Call of Cthulhu game. In Nomine has morality issues running through the whole game so I tend to make use of these a great deal. It is also one of the reasons I tend to make use of soldiers as player characters. It makes the morality a bit more interesting. I also tend to use both contrast and brightness set to about mid point. As an example. In Crystal Tower (one of my convention games), the cast includes; An eco terrorist, (the sort of guy who burns GM crops which has a certain amount of support in the UK). He has past provisional IRA contacts, and is now a Soldier of Freedom and very opposed to killing. A officer of Fair Trade in service to Trade (a Soldier) who on more than one occasion has tipped off eco terrorists about unecological and biologically dangerous experiments. A ganster, UK style, loyal to family, manor (part of London he comes from), a bit of a Robin Hood figure and a Soldier in service to Theft. A drug dealer, sells high quality cannabis etc at reasonable prices, never rips people off and does not sell hard drugs. Originally in service to Flowers, currently co-opted to Dreams. An ex military, ex SAS, now in Service to Gabriel and has PTSD after witnessing some events in the Gulf War.. And a few others. Their objective (which they slowly learn about) is a new tether to Greed which needs taking down fast before large quantities of Celestials start fighting each other and all hell erupts in Central London. ie, what is mostly the peace faction wants the matter closed down before the war factions move in. And eventally the PC's discover the location, Canary Wharf, London. A large presigious building dominated by banking and the financial industry and a popular terrorist target. London's equivalant of the WTC. It's quite amazing watching some of the God faction discussing the merits of a few kilos of Cemtex and the person who can get it having fits about the potential number of innocent deaths. And yes on one occasion this solution was used. Ashley. Ashley and Hilary omentide.omentide@virgin.net http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 10:21:39 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Ozma's Ethereal opinions Charles Phipps wrote: > Wonderland: Ever since I installed Alice as Queen of this realm > and removed the awful Queen of hearts and child beating Duchcess > to more hospitable climates to ladies of their temperment things > have been going great. So is Alice the blessed soul of Alice Pleasance Liddle, the real and historical friend to whom Charles Dodgson told the first version of the story? Or is she an Ethereal? (I gather Ethereals don't typically copy real people of other species, but you included the Elvii, and the fictional Alice is rather far removed from the historical one.) In a similar vein, any action concerning Christopher Robin Milne and the denizens of the Hundred Aker Wood? Earl ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2388 ********************************