in_nomine-digest       Friday, October 5 2001       Volume 01 : Number 2402



In this digest:

   Re: IN> Story: Archon Dovnan
   RE: IN> Larry's Special Swords
   Re: IN> Larry's Special Swords
   Re: IN> Larry's Special Swords
   IN> Life's little ironies that make Beth's life so enjoyable....
   Re: IN> Larry's Special Swords
   Re: IN> Larry's Special Swords
   IN> Legion, Was Larries Swords
   IN> Superior Oppositions
   Re: IN> Superior Oppositions
   Re: IN> Larry's Special Swords
   Re: IN> Superior Oppositions
   Re: IN> Superior Oppositions
   Re: IN> Superior Oppositions
   Re: IN> Superior Oppositions
   Re: IN> RE: In WoD: Garou
   Re: IN> RE: Those Garou posts that were here but I deleted...
   Re: IN> Legion, Was Larries Swords
   Re: IN> Superior Oppositions
   Re: IN> Larry's Special Swords
   IN> Baal's Unholy Bullets
   Re: IN> Superior Oppositions
   IN> Demonic attunement
   IN> Michael (variant)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 13:24:04 -0300
From: pbarkow@is2.dal.ca
Subject: Re: IN> Story: Archon Dovnan

On 4 Oct 01, at 0:48, Charles Phipps wrote:

> I thought I'd do up Archon's history as he was in the future, tell me if you 
> think it sucks or not. This is inspired by the Lord of the Rings trailer.

Interesting, a Sailor Moon / Star Wars cross over inspired by the 
Lord of the Rings trailer. Seems a little bit out of place on an In 
Nomine Mailing list though.



"Cammy White - That Shadowloo brainwashing is pesky. Deprogram her with
 the patented hand-meets-buttocks method."
        -Excerpted from the List of Spankable Anime Females v1.0
http://is2.dal.ca/~pbarkow/
Harbinger of Keener-sama
Vice President DPG
Official Fashion Consultant and Hentai of the DGML
Shameless Faith/Buffy shipper.
Lapsed Discordian
Head of the Keiko-chanian faction
Hug Guy

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 12:37:15 -0400 
From: "Adams, David" <david.adams@t-t.com>
Subject: RE: IN> Larry's Special Swords

Scenario:  Larry is on Earth and runs across a Baron of Infernal Fire
trying to burn down a church.  The best response would seem to be for
Larry to become directly involved (preferably without revealing who he is
- -- otherwise the Baron might bolt immediately or call up Belial (which I
guess would be just fine with him))  So, does Larry use /Brass Monkey/
on the lowly Baron, even though it isn't really necessary?

Given the situation, I think not.  The best weapon in this situation would
probably be just whomping on him with whatever sword he wants.  We are
talking about an Archangel taking on a demon.  I interpret "the best weapon"
to mean a range of weapons not just one thing.  Kinda like bringing a Desert
Eagle when a .38 will do just as fine.  Granted the larger weapon is the
best but wouldn't Laurence also take into account overkill.  You know, I do
believe the man who wrote up Laurence is on this list somewhere.  Maybe he
could offer up his two cents on the interpretation of the oath.

Dave

If you want canon ask the person who wrote the book, if not everything else
is open to your interpretation as you see fit.

------------------------------

Date: 04 Oct 2001 12:43:13 -0400
From: "Matthew B. Gerber" <mgerber@cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Larry's Special Swords

On Thu, 2001-10-04 at 11:44, Ryan M Roth wrote:

> Scenario:  Larry is on Earth and runs across a Baron of Infernal Fire
> trying to burn down a church.  The best response would seem to be for
> Larry to become directly involved (preferably without revealing who 
> he is -- otherwise the Baron might bolt immediately or call up Belial
> (which I guess would be just fine with him))  So, does Larry use
> /Brass Monkey/ on the lowly Baron, even though it isn't really
> necessary?

In this scenario, no.

As you just pointed out, using /Brass Monkey/ would reveal who Laurence
is.  That would, in turn, result in a decent chance of a fight with
Belial himself.  That would, in turn, result in hideously massive
property damage.  That was, in turn, what Laurence was trying to avoid
in the first place.

Therefore, /Brass Monkey/ would increase the chance of failure, not
decrease it.  Therefore, using /Brass Monkey/, regardless of its sheer
ability to dish out pain, is counterproductive.  Therefore, /Brass
Monkey/ is not the best weapon available for the job at hand.

"Always use the best weapons available" *has* to have an implicit "for
the job at hand", unless you're in a spectacularly Silly game: "best" is
inherently such a subjective word that no other interpretation really
holds together.  You could say that "best" is something like "the weapon
that will do the most damage to the enemy in question", and that would
give you a logically consistent interpretation of the Oath--but see the
above comment about a Silly game: after all, there *are* presumably
nuclear weapons available to Heaven if they really wanted to use them.
No single binding objective definition of "best" that can't be broken
down to absurdity this way readily presents itself.

Coming back to the specific example, the job at hand isn't "spank this
Servitor of Belial", but something like "spank this Servitor of Belial
and protect the church".  Causing all Hell to break loose in the process
of delivering the spanking would fail the second objective.

If it were any Servitor of Laurence's with a similar Oath, you'd have a
dicier situation because of the risk of defeat in battle.  In this case,
however, that risk does not exist.  It has been elaborated *very*
thoroughly on this list just how utterly, unavoidably, inescapably,
pathetically screwed a non-Superior trying to fight a Superior is,
unless the non-Superior has some sort of omnipotent plot device.
Laurence is one of the most powerful Archangels of the War Faction, so
magnify this effect by the appropriate amount.  The Archangel of The
Sword simply is not going to lose a fight to anything less than a
Prince.  The probability of it is infinitesimal.

Therefore, if you set up a situation where there were *no*
reason--*none*--for the hapless Servitor of Infernal Fire in question to
not know who he's being smacked around by, then you could make the
argument that yes, Laurence would have to use /Brass Monkey/ in that
situation.  However, there has to, again, be *no* reason at all for
subtlety.  Otherwise, the sheer irrelevance to the outcome of the fight
of which weapon Laurence uses means that the necessity of the subtlety
to the job at hand instantly becomes the ruling factor.

Therefore and finally, to force Laurence into using an overkill weapon,
you have to set up a situation where it's not going to hurt anything
else for him to use that overkill weapon.  Which means it would be very,
very, very hard for Hell to turn this Oath to its overall advantage.

QED, IMHO, YMMV, HTH,


Matt

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 16:53:32 +0000
From: "Janet Anderson" <dorigen@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Larry's Special Swords

>From: "Matthew B. Gerber" <mgerber@cfl.rr.com>
>Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com
>To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com
>Subject: Re: IN> Larry's Special Swords
>Date: 04 Oct 2001 12:43:13 -0400

>QED, IMHO, YMMV, HTH,
>
>
>Matt
>

Very nice.

Janet Anderson



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 13:11:17 -0400
From: "Charles Phipps" <charlemagne1980@hotmail.com>
Subject: IN> Life's little ironies that make Beth's life so enjoyable....

Okay basically here's the story behind that very strange post there. One of 
my favorite games after (and including sometimes) In Nomine is a 7 or so 
year old campaign with my best friend who plays a Jedi Knight named Chris 
Grey. Well a long time ago we exhausted the sci-fi aspects that things 
started to get pretty fantasy based with alternate realities/demon princes 
(Called Ancient and Old Ones) and even energy based beings and super 
thousand year old races.

NOW here's where the In Nomine funny part comes in.

While writing a copy of In WoD: Faeries at the same time I was writing up my 
character's backstory here (there's alot of time travel from Tales of The 
Jedi era to the end of Star Wars-a post apcolyptic future) I managed to use 
my "quick address" list to send it to my best friend chris....well I ususlly 
use in nomine's address there.

Well the funny part is that Beth had already JUST sent me a warning that 
very minute for sending too large posts to the list AND the apology I sent 
for the list I sent to the wrong address yesterday.

Quite ironic.

I think I'll take a little more care with my addresses and just type them in 
now....

- -Charlemagne


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 10:12:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Walton <thunderdog_sa@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Larry's Special Swords

- --- Eric Bertish <ebertish@hotmail.com> wrote:
> You're telling me he doesn't have them all Scabbarded?

  OK, so I forgot about that one.

> Me, I think it would be far more effective, if not
> entertaining, that
> Laurence has these swords on loan to servitors in high
> regard (at least two
> Distinctions) who have shown special competence in
> fighting a particular
> Word. It seems ineffecient, if not downright Dissonant,
> for him to have
> ass-kicking swords that aren't being used.

  Good point.  But the flipside is, what sort of
AA-trouncing Artifacts has Hell come up with?

=====
Michael Walton,  #9805-068
  "The surest way to keep a secret is to make
people believe they already know the answer."
- -- Fremen saying

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 10:16:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Walton <thunderdog_sa@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Larry's Special Swords

- --- Ryan M Roth <rmr48@columbia.edu> wrote:
> This is not my point.  We can fairly assume that Larry
> has enough
> Sheathe-space to carry all of them with him at all times,
> more or less.
> My point is that, in the original posting by Moe, he
> described these
> swords as weapons Larry only brings out at certain times
> (such as when
> confronted by enemy Superiors).  But, if he has them,
> does not his oath
> require him to use them more often than that (such as
> when confronted by
> _any_ Servitor of those Demon Princes)?  

  Ah, now I see where you're coming from.

> Scenario:  Larry is on Earth and runs across a Baron of
> Infernal Fire
> trying to burn down a church.  The best response would
> seem to be for
> Larry to become directly involved (preferably without
> revealing who he is
> -- otherwise the Baron might bolt immediately or call up
> Belial (which I
> guess would be just fine with him))  So, does Larry use
> /Brass Monkey/
> on the lowly Baron, even though it isn't really
> necessary?

  In this case, I'd say that /Brass Monkey/ is by no means
the best weapon for the job.  If Larry's trying to be
circumspect, pulling out a weapon that the demon might well
recognize as a Superior-level Artifact (much less one that
a Belialite might know on sight) would blow his cover. 
OTOH, if Laurcence _wants_ the demon to know who he's up
against, pulling such a weapon is a good move.

=====
Michael Walton,  #9805-068
  "The surest way to keep a secret is to make
people believe they already know the answer."
- -- Fremen saying

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 17:20:34 +0000
From: "cassandra benner" <casiopia@hotmail.com>
Subject: IN> Legion, Was Larries Swords

>Good point.  But the flipside is, what sort of
>AA-trouncing Artifacts has Hell come up with?

Oh, they had one, but they had to kill him....
Hmm was Legion really a Living artifact that was worded by the big L on a 
bad day?...

*runs away whilst that little thought starts to settle in*

Cas

*where you come from is gone, where you're going was never there, and where 
you are aint no good unless you can get away from it*

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/inmundi
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/semperin
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/inveritas
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Infabula

>

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 10:21:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Walton <thunderdog_sa@yahoo.com>
Subject: IN> Superior Oppositions

   I know that this has been asked before, but I currently
have no access to the archives.  What are the standard
oppositions for the Superiors?  Here's what I have so far:

Blandine: Beleth
Christopher: ?
David: Malphas
Dominic: Asmodeus
Eli: Andrealphus
Gabriel: Belial
Janus: Valefor
Jean: Vapula
Jordi: Haagenti (?)
Khalid: ?
Laurence: ?
Litheroy: Alaemon
Marc: Lilith (?)
Michael: Baal
Novalis: Saminga
Yves: Kronos
Zadkiel: Furfur (?)

   Then I run up against the problem of there being more
minor DP's than minor AA's.  Is it assumed that those extra
Princes are pretty much unopposed, or do some AA’s split
their efforts?  Help is appreciated.  And feel free to fill
in any AA's I forgot -- no books with me, as usual.

=====
Michael Walton,  #9805-068
  "The surest way to keep a secret is to make
people believe they already know the answer."
- -- Fremen saying

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Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 17:27:21 +0000
From: "cassandra benner" <casiopia@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Superior Oppositions

>Christopher: ?

Fleruity

>Khalid: ?

Hmm i'd say malphas for this one.

>Laurence: ?

Well i think thats baal as well, but im not to sure on that one.

Those are just who i have as th eopposites for them.

Toodles

Cas

*where you come from is gone, where you're going was never there, and where 
you are aint no good unless you can get away from it*

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/inmundi
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/semperin
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/inveritas
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Infabula

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 12:38:50 -0500
From: "Prodigal" <prodigal@ticnet.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Larry's Special Swords

From: "Ryan M Roth" <rmr48@columbia.edu>
>
> anyway, so scarring is pretty much pointless).  And what happens if you
> interpret his oath as "always use the best weapon for the present
> situation?"

Then you have him using his Scabbard attunement to hold a fightening number
of weapons in potentiality around himself, all waiting for the proper time
to use them.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 12:51:58 -0500
From: EDG <anthoch@earlham.edu>
Subject: Re: IN> Superior Oppositions

At 10:21 AM 10/4/01 -0700, you wrote:
>    I know that this has been asked before, but I currently
>have no access to the archives.  What are the standard
>oppositions for the Superiors?  Here's what I have so far:

(This information is on the GM's screen, if it helps.  Of course, I don't 
have my books either.)

>Blandine: Beleth
>Christopher: Pretty much all of them, really.  Any DP of Corruption in 
>particular.
>David: Malphas
>Dominic: Asmodeus
>Eli: Andrealphus, Saminga
>Gabriel: Belial
>Janus: Valefor, Kronos
>Jean: Vapula
>Jordi: Malphas, Saminga (plus, tho it's not really a Superior opposition, 
>the Demon of Cities)
>Khalid: Asmodeus and Saminga (?)
>Laurence: Again, all of them, really.  Baal in particular, though.
>Litheroy: Alaemon
>Marc: Lilith, Mammon, Haagenti
>Michael: Baal
>Novalis: Saminga
>Yves: Kronos
>Zadkiel: Furfur (?)
>
>    Then I run up against the problem of there being more
>minor DP's than minor AA's.  Is it assumed that those extra
>Princes are pretty much unopposed, or do some AA's split
>their efforts?  Help is appreciated.  And feel free to fill
>in any AA's I forgot -- no books with me, as usual.

The latter.  See above. :)

- -EDG

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 17:58:17 
From: "Michael Cleveland" <firefly_bug@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Superior Oppositions

>What are the standard oppositions for the Superiors?  Here's what I >have 
>so far:
>

>Christopher: ?

Fleurity

>Jordi: Haagenti (?)

I'd disagree. Jordi has always been isolated from the rest of mortal 
society, where Hell's work is done most. Lucifer probably doesn't have 
anyone _directly_ opposing him.

>Khalid: ?

I'd have Kobal and Malphas opposing Faith, but neither one full time. 
Mlaphas for sowing discord amongst religions, thereby making people cynical 
and voilent. Kobal because in order for people to believe that life is a 
joke that God is playing on them, he has to remove people's belief that God 
is on their side.

>Laurence: ?

I'd have Haagenti set against Laurence. If memory serves, Haagenti was 
elevated to Prince shortly after Laurence was promoted to Archangel. 
Although there's no direct word-conflict, Laurence has to consider the fact 
that although he's far from the brightest Prince, he pulled himself up to 
this level of power from the dregs of the pit. No matter what anyone else 
says, that and the fact that Kobal chose to 'adopt' him means that Haagenti 
is _dangerous_.

>Marc: Lilith (?)

Lilith I've never seen as against any Archangel. I'd have Mammon, Prince of 
Greed, against Marc. It pits the urge to help your fellow man against the 
urge to get ahead at all costs, regardless of who it hurts.

Michael Cleveland
Gulf Coast Geotech





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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 18:36:02 
From: "Kish Moore" <kish_k@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Superior Oppositions

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P>&lt;&lt;I know that this has been asked before, but I currently </P></DIV>have no access to the archives. What are the standard 
<DIV></DIV>
<P>oppositions for the Superiors?&gt;&gt;</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>By the main book (though it's likely not still official, especially since EDG said something quite different):</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>Blandine: Beleth 
<DIV></DIV> 
<DIV></DIV>David: None (or All, depending on how you look at it).
<DIV></DIV>Dominic: Asmodeus 
<DIV></DIV>Eli: Andrealphus 
<DIV></DIV>Gabriel: Belial 
<DIV></DIV>Janus: Valefor 
<DIV></DIV>Jean: Vapula 
<DIV></DIV>Jordi: Haagenti (one-sided enmity)
<DIV></DIV> 
<DIV></DIV>Laurence: Saminga
<DIV></DIV>Litheroy: Alaemon 
<DIV></DIV>Marc: Nybbas
<DIV></DIV>Michael: Baal 
<DIV></DIV>
<P>Novalis: Malphas</P>
<P>Yves: Kronos </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Kobal: None.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The minor ones (with the obvious exception of Alaemon/Litheroy), don't seem to have formal pairing-type oppositions. Rather,&nbsp;they get notes on "hates X" (Mammon is opposed to Marc, and Fleurity is opposed to Eli).</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 14:00:23 -0500
From: EDG <anthoch@earlham.edu>
Subject: Re: IN> Superior Oppositions

At 06:36 PM 10/4/01 +0000, you wrote:

>By the main book (though it's likely not still official, especially since 
>EDG said something quite different):

Aie.  Don't take *my* word as gospel in the slightest.  I'm just going by 
instinct here.

- -EDG

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 20:09:07 +0100
From: "Adam Benedict Canning" <dahak@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: IN> RE: In WoD: Garou

> Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 10:01:38 -0400
> From: Daniel Suave <ahsdreamwalker@home.com>
>
> On Mon, 1 Oct 2001 11:46:59 +0100, "Adam Benedict Canning"
> <dahak@compuserve.com>  wrote:
>
> >From: Dominic, Archangel of Judgement
> >To: Benedict, Angel of Double Agents
> >Re: The Garou Shapechangers
> >
> >As of this moment you are considered conditionally read on to HALO
> >BREEZE.
> >
> >The Gaia entity is a false flag operation run by Jordi and Novalis.
> >
> >The shapechanging capabilities of the Garou are
> attunements provided
> >to and only useful on soldiers in certain bloodlines
> isolated during
> >the Merovingian experiment [Further details CODEWORD REX MUNDI]
> >
> >Contact Ariel for any further information you need on this project.
> >
> >Act in Infinite Justice.
> >
> >Dominic
> Not to knock you personally, just a commentary:
>
> I find this kind of "crossover" tends to cheapen both
> games-- like some
> crossover fics can, when the writer seems to preferring one
> "world" over the
> other.

I'm not sure I am here, The problem comes from the underlying
philosophical discontinuity between IN, which is that Weird stuff is
the preserve of the War and WoD which says that weird stuff is
available based entirely on individual belief.

Nothing in the document you are unhappy about breaks the level the
Garou operate at. Yes they call Novalis [Or a Jordi/ Novalis
metaconcert] Gaia, but that makes a better fit than a major ethereal
with powerful followers does on the IN view point.

> I'd much rather do what I've seen most successful full WOD
> games do-- give each
> "splat" its world view, it's own metaphysical concepts, and
> being largely in the
> dark about others unless they dare to look past the stereotypes.

Which leads to the problem that in the WoD the world banking system is
run from behind the scenes by multiple different factions
[Glasswalkers, Giovanni, etc] who haven't noticed each other and who
barely interact. And so on.  One might remember that about the only
thing the majority of the factions in WoD agree on is there is a major
conflict being stage managed by unseen forces behind the curtains.

And I prefer something closer to Anita Blake on the interactions
between supernaturals.

The above is after all from Dominic's point of view. The problem is
that Dominic is in IN far more plugged into the underlying metaphysics
of reality than any of the WoD Garou characters.

And from the point of view of one of the entities that remembers
helping create the universe, and which knows the underlying
metaphysical concepts it runs on?

> It's tempting to make the Archangels somehow involved with
> every weird thing...
> but it's not nessarily(sp) the best route.

Occam's Razor shaves well here though. Jordi and Novalis between them
symbolise the traits the Garou ascribe to Gaia and are sufficiently
supernatural to pull this off. The stand alone route doesn't work well
with IN, given the purity crusade etc.

The Garou totems are all philosophical concepts, which fit well with
them being word bound. Admittedly this means some of them are
worshipping Michael in his manifestation as a stealth bomber.

> Beside, NOVALIS supporting the Warriors of Gaia? Garou seem
> to prone to hit
> first to be her boat.

Oddly enough not all Garou are strike first fighters. Novalis is aware
you need combat types around, its just that they are the last resort.
These are to here one of the last resorts. Which helps keep Jordi from
using them as a first resort...

Adam

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 15:13:57 -0400
From: "Charles Phipps" <charlemagne1980@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: IN> RE: Those Garou posts that were here but I deleted...

Good stuff.

I really enjoyed the Garou/Watchers connection.

Makes me wonder what Benedict found....

:-)

- -Charlemagne


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Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 14:20:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Walton <thunderdog_sa@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Legion, Was Larries Swords

- --- cassandra benner <casiopia@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Oh, they had one, but they had to kill him....
> Hmm was Legion really a Living artifact that was worded
> by the big L on a bad day?...

  Oh, thanks, Cas.  Now somebody will stay up late doing
the write-up.*




*He said, hoping they would. 0:>

=====
Michael Walton,  #9805-068
  "The surest way to keep a secret is to make
people believe they already know the answer."
- -- Fremen saying

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Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 14:21:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Walton <thunderdog_sa@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Superior Oppositions

- --- cassandra benner <casiopia@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >Christopher: ?
> 
> Fleruity
> 
> >Khalid: ?
> 
> Hmm i'd say malphas for this one.
> 
> >Laurence: ?
> 
> Well i think thats baal as well, but im not to sure on
> that one.
> 
> Those are just who i have as th eopposites for them.

  I'm looking for the canonical ones.  I know that Malphas
is opposed to David in canon, for example.  Christopher:
Fleurity makes sense, though.

=====
Michael Walton,  #9805-068
  "The surest way to keep a secret is to make
people believe they already know the answer."
- -- Fremen saying

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Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 16:29:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Maurice Lane <moelane_1999@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Larry's Special Swords

- --- Eric Bertish <ebertish@hotmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
> I mean, if Invictus, Malakite Vassal of the Sword is
> *known* to wield Brass
> Monkey, 

Tease.  

;)

Moe 


=====
Liber Licentiae Moeticae:
http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html

Last updated 09/28/01(this is usually way out of date)

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Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 23:31:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" <pkitty@brainpuke.com>
Subject: IN> Baal's Unholy Bullets

On Thu, 4 Oct 2001, Michael Walton wrote:
>   Good point.  But the flipside is, what sort of
> AA-trouncing Artifacts has Hell come up with?

What the heck... here goes:


The Demon Prince of the War is known for his paradoxial combination of
overwhelming, arrogant pride and common-sense pragmatism. While the latter
has led him to craft these specialized Unholy Bullets, it is the former
which keeps him from loading up an M60 with a belt of each type. Instead,
he has a rack within his barracks containing several old-fashioned, six
shot revolvers... one for each Archangel. It is worth noting that Baal has
yet to use these "aces" - he has merely made Heaven aware of his arsenal,
that they know not to push him too far.


Blandine: Designed specifically for Ethereal combat, /Disquiet/ is one of
Baal's more horrible type of ammo. Although they function as normal Unholy
Bullets in the Marches (doing Mind or Soul hits), it is their infamous
ability to be fired _into_ a dreamscape from the outside that cemented
Blandine's outrage. If Baal is forced to face the Archangel of Dreams in
her territory, _every_ dreamer within range will become a hostage.

Christopher: In addition to, or instead of, doing normal damage,
/Hourglass/ can age anyone it hits, proportional to the damage done.
Victims are thus robbed of their youth prematurely. A single hit from the
Demon Prince himself could turn a baby into an old man - Christopher knows
and fears this.

David: Crafted with Primordial Clay, /Ungorgon/ appears to be made of
living flesh. Any solid, inanimate material it hits will turn into
pseudo-flesh, first at the impact point, then spreading out. Stone armor
becomes useless after one hit, and enough firepower could render a metal
fortress penetratable with simple hatchets.

Dominic: A special torment for one who must guard his secrets closely,
/Godiva/ is designed specifically to shred away artifacts and protection
against resonances, such as Dominic's cloak. The shotgun-like blasts will
render non-Superiors completely (temporarily) vulnerable to all
Resonances; Demons cannot be resisted, and Angels may add their Celestial
Forces to their rolls AND check digits. Superiors lose their resonance
fuzzing against other Superiors. Many wonder just what they would find
should the Archangel of Judgment be assaulted by such a weapon.

Eli: Designed to stop most of his unexpected tricks in battle, /Blockage/
temporarily dams the Essence flow of anyone it hits. Until the damage from
the bullet is healed, the victim cannot spend any Essence for any reason.
Sotto Voce performances of the Song of Healing are useful, as are allies
(or multiple Superior manifestations), to get around this problem, but
Baal still considers it an effective defense against the most
unpredictable Archangel.

Gabriel: You're probably expecting ice bullets, right? Actually, Baal has
learned quite a bit from Vapula, and /Damper/ was created with a field of
anti-thermal energy around it, enabling Baal to "kill" flame, fire, and
heat, just by shooting it. Much more effective, and they don't even drip.

Janus: Rumor has it that the Archangel of the Wind paused for a full ten
seconds to contemplate the rumor of /Hobble/... before racing on to
investigate further. While it may be difficult to hit a target like Janus,
the fact that the bullets remain inside the victim and slow him to about
two-thirds of his current Agility and speed, cumulatively, make it enough
of a deterrant.

Jean: Now, about those ice bullets... actually, each bullet of /Deluge/
has a tiny speck of liquid at its core. That tiny speck is actually one
hundred gallons of highly conductive electrolytic fluid, compressed to
one millionth of its original size. Expands upon impact, you see. Does
wonders to electrical devices, not to mention electrical fields.

Jordi: One of Baal's simpler (and crueler) types of ammo, /Barb/ explodes
into hundreds of tiny fishhooks inside of its target, and reduces the
target number and hits healed by anyone using the Corporeal Song of
Healing. The Demon Prince of War knows that being forced to abandon his
hosts in this condition would drive Jordi to the point of Falling.

Khalid: Created in a fit of pure arrogance, /Crusader/ is more of an
insult than a weapon. Its bullets leave massive scarring, invariably in
the form of large, branded, Christian crosses, which cannot be healed from
a vessel. The reaction from the pious witnessing such a "miracle" is not
to be overlooked, either.

Laurence: Though his blades may be unbreakable, the Archangel of the Sword
cannot discount /Rounding/. Designed specifically for shooting at edged
weapons, this ammo dulls the blades of its targets by coating them with a
thick, rubbery gel. A Superior would be able to scrape it off easily, but
not without a small amount of time and effort, neither of which are
commonly available when facing another Superior in combat.

Litheroy: A nuisance to most, a horrible torment to a few (including the
Archangel of Revelation), /Spoof/ not only damages whomever it strikes,
but causes any Perception-based Resonance of theirs to temporarily become
only half reliable. When the victim successfully resonates someone or
something, secretly flip a coin. On heads, no problem. On tails, they get
completely wrong (but not in an immediately obvious way) information. Even
knowing that you've been affected by this is little help.

Marc: Not only does /Recession/ cause normal damage to its target, it also
causes them to lose 10% of their current liquid assets! Multiple hits are
cumulative. For most people, this is drastically inconvenient. For the
Archangel of Trade, it could cripple Heaven's ability to act in the War.

Michael: The Demon Prince of the War does have a six-shooter chambered
with six very special bullets. All of them have Michael's name etched on
them, in Angelic and Demonic. Aside from this fact, there is nothing
special or miraculous about /Victory/... they aren't even Unholy Bullets.
Baal knows that he will need no help or "edge" to defeat his ancient rival
when the time is right.

Novalis: The fact that /Defoliant/ is so obvious and straightforward does
little to ease Novalis' feelings towards this ammo, which leaves a gas
trail in its wake strong enough to kill all plant life in a matter of
seconds. Living beings in the wake find it rather unhealthy as well...

Yves: Crafted carefully with Kronos' help, /Wheeljammer/ is an unrivalled
work of artistic genius, enchantment-wise. Any angel or any human who has
met his destiny (or is otherwise bound for Heaven if killed at this very
moment) cannot be killed by these bullets, instead winding up in a coma.
(The person or vessel must heal itself naturally back to 1 body hit to
come out of the coma; Songs of Healing are useless until then.) Any other
human (or demon or ethereal) can be killed without a problem. With these
rounds, Baal can happily fire into a crowd of Yves' protected, with no
fear of sending the success stories to Heaven.

Zadkiel: Knowing that Zadkiel will never be a target, but instead will be
defending the important targets, Baal crafted /Evader/. These bullets will
automatically avoid anyone in the line of fire, hitting the intended
target only (who may still attempt to Dodge or otherwise defend
themselves). Cover will not help unless it is total cover, from all
around. While these bullets could be useful on a crowded battlefield, in
Baal's hands they are the bane of Cherubim everywhere.

- -- 
Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L!
								Meow!

"People love to be told what to do. They love not doing what they've been
told even more. They love it the most when they are made to do it anyway."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 21:52:47 -0700
From: "Bevan Thomas" <bthomasa@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Superior Oppositions

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>From: "Kish Moore" <kish_k@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com
>To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com
>Subject: Re: IN> Superior Oppositions
>Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 18:36:02
>

Even though the rulebook and screen say that Malphas hates Novalis the most, 
and David doesn't have any special enemy, David's entry in Superiors 1 
states that Malphas is his hated foe, and The Infernal Player's Guide says 
that Lucifer placed Malphas in opposition to David. Malphas works better as 
the opposite number of David anyway, the destroyer of communities versus its 
patron (though I doubt Malphas bears Novalis much love).


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From: "Kish Moore" <kish_k@hotmail.com>
To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com
Subject: Re: IN> Superior Oppositions
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 18:36:02
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<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P>&lt;&lt;I know that this has been asked before, but I currently </P></DIV>have no access to the archives. What are the standard
<DIV></DIV>
<P>oppositions for the Superiors?&gt;&gt;</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>By the main book (though it's likely not still official, especially since EDG said something quite different):</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>Blandine: Beleth
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>David: None (or All, depending on how you look at it).
<DIV></DIV>Dominic: Asmodeus
<DIV></DIV>Eli: Andrealphus
<DIV></DIV>Gabriel: Belial
<DIV></DIV>Janus: Valefor
<DIV></DIV>Jean: Vapula
<DIV></DIV>Jordi: Haagenti (one-sided enmity)
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Laurence: Saminga
<DIV></DIV>Litheroy: Alaemon
<DIV></DIV>Marc: Nybbas
<DIV></DIV>Michael: Baal
<DIV></DIV>
<P>Novalis: Malphas</P>
<P>Yves: Kronos </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Kobal: None.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The minor ones (with the obvious exception of Alaemon/Litheroy), don't seem to have formal pairing-type oppositions. Rather,&nbsp;they get notes on "hates X" (Mammon is opposed to Marc, and Fleurity is opposed to Eli).</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
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Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 06:48:44 +0000
From: "cassandra benner" <casiopia@hotmail.com>
Subject: IN> Demonic attunement

This is a precursor to the write up of orc that i and Fallen Seraph are 
working on....


No One supperior lays the claim to have invented this attunement, but nybbas 
or vapula are the firm favorites for its genesis.

White Noise
This attunement is nasty, and simple in its effect.
It costs 4 essence to use so its not very cost effective for lower powered 
demons.
It also has two uses.
1: It creates a semi disturbance, a constant background whine in the 
celestial realm that will mess around with any angels resonance rolls.
The celestial Whine causes a negative modifier equal to half the demons 
Celestial forces (round down) that effects the dice roll AND the Check 
Digit.
2: Any Kyriotates who happen to be inhabiting any kind of electronic will 
take dammage equivilant to the demons Celestial forces for every round they 
are in the item.
White noise is centered on an item, not the demon, and lasts for Will 
minutes.


Toodles

Cas

*where you come from is gone, where you're going was never there, and where 
you are aint no good unless you can get away from it*

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/inmundi
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/semperin
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/inveritas
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Infabula


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 15:21:08 +0800
From: Manny Nepomuceno <darkness@i-manila.com.ph>
Subject: IN> Michael (variant)

Hey,

Now me, I blame Moe for this one.

;)  Manny Neps
http://www.geocities.com/angeloffools/

Michael
Elohite Archangel of War

The world is a war, raging through the hearts and minds of men.

First-born among the celestials, older than anyone save the ineffable Yves, 
Michael is an Elohite, an expression of the Symphony's natural inclination 
towards balance.  Proud without being arrogant, deadly without being 
genocidal, Michael has lived War ever since the Fall, the day when he (and 
the rest of Heaven's warriors) kicked Lucifer and the Rebels out of 
Paradise.  It's been some time since then, and anyone will tell you that 
the old Elohite is getting tired of fighting.
The most powerful angel in mind and body, Michael is widely considered 
Heaven's Champion.  He earned this title when he fought down Lucifer, a 
lowly 18-Force angel facing down a Wordbound Superior.  The First of the 
Fallen wasn't much of a Balseraph back then, unable to press his false 
Symphony on the enraged Michael.  For his part, Michael gained his first 
note of dissonance, but considers it well earned: God himself removed the 
note that same day.  To this day, all Balseraphs bear a special hatred 
towards Elohim.
At ease with any weapon (although he is partial to axes and daggers), 
Michael can often be found in the Groves, teaching his Servitors to 
fight.  He encourages everyone to learn to fight -- angels, human souls, 
even relievers -- so that Heaven can be better prepared for the final 
battle.  Unlike other militant Archangels, however, Michael understands 
that fighting is the last resource available to Heaven's warriors: when it 
comes down to one-on-one combat, it is because all other methods to achive 
one's objective have already failed.  Psychological warfare is one of 
Michael's innovations: he's been using it for centuries.
On Earth, Michael's Servitors strike an uneasy balance between being the 
toughest fighters in creation and the Symphony's humblest servants.  They 
defer to Laurence, Archangel of the Sword, in matters pertaining to the 
War, but only because Michael tells them to.  Wandering fighters and 
teachers, they fight to prove that Heaven's cause is Truly more worthy than 
Hell's.

Dissonance
Michael's dissonance conditions remain unchanged from canon.

Attunements
Choir Attunements

Seraphim (restricted): By looking into an opponent's eyes, a Seraph of War 
can learn what his foe believes about the battle -- including all of his 
battle plans.  When activated, this attunement is handled as a standard 
resonance roll, but success means that the angel receives a bonus equal to 
the CD of the successful roll to his Dodge for the duration of the 
battle.  Failure does not generate dissonance for the angel.

Cherubim (restricted): Michael's Cherubim earn a bonus to the Power and 
Accuracy of their attacks equal to their Corporeal Forces when using a 
weapon they are attuned to.  Take note that if the weapon is destroyed in 
combat, they will suffer dissonance!

Ofanim: unchanged from canonical attunement.

Elohim: unchanged from canonical attunement.

Malakim: unchanged from canonical attunement.

Kyriotate (restricted): Michael's Dominations may take over the vessel of a 
defeated or unconscious opponent!  The Kyriotate takes no dissonance if the 
vessel is lost or destroyed afterwards.  More than one demon has quit the 
field upon seeing his vanquished comrades rising up against him.

Mercurian: unchanged from canonical attunement.

Servitor Attunements

Howl
When the servants of Michael howl their frightening war cry, all their foes 
within a number of feet equal to the angel's Corporeal Forces must roll 
against their Wills or be terrified!  They may either flee or suffer 
penalties to their Dodge, Power and Accuracy equal to the angel's Corporeal 
Forces.

Proficiency
Unchanged from canonical attunement.

Distinctions
Michael's Distinctions remain unchanged from canon.

Relations
Unsurprisingly, Michael sides with the War faction, although he has 
personal reservations about Janus and his methods (Janus feels similarly 
about Michael, and returns the animosity).   Remembering Michael's 
patronage of humanity, Jordi is hostile to the Archangel of War.  Gabriel 
also disdains Michael, claiming that Michael is too soft on 
humans.  Michael is on good terms with Yves and Dominic, who still 
remembers that God himself removed Michael's first -- and only -- note of 
dissonance.

Allied: Laurence, Dominic (Laurence and Yves are allied with Michael)
Associated: Yves, David (Dominic and David are associated with Michael)
Hostile: Janus (Janus, Gabriel and Jordi are hostile to Michael)

Rites
Michael's Rites remain unchanged from canon.

Chance of Invocation: 1

Invocation Modifiers:
+1 A dagger
+2 A battle-axe
+3 An ancient weapon
+4 A castle under siege
+5 A pitched battle
+6 A pitched battle, when Heaven's side is losing

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