in_nomine-digest Tuesday, November 6 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2424 In this digest: Re: IN> Re: Lilith's looks Re: IN> Re: Cruelty Re: IN> Use Question, again (was: Vapulan Time Travel) Re: IN> Slew of Questions IN> When Asmodeus is brassed off at a Servitor.... Re: IN> Horror Month: Battle Plan IN> The Seraphim Council Re: IN>Question about Revelation Re: IN> Re: Notre Dame Re: IN> Converting Hardcore to Destruction Re: IN> The Seraphim Council Re: IN> When Asmodeus is brassed off at a Servitor.... Re: IN> The Seraphim Council IN> Tattered Media Blizzard pt1 IN> Insomnia Special Cells Sequal... Re: IN> The Seraphim Council IN> Signed Fall of the Malakim auction... Re: IN> Slew of Questions Re: IN> Signed Fall of the Malakim auction... Re: IN> Tattered Media Blizzard pt1 Re: IN> Use Question, again (was: Vapulan Time Travel) Re: IN> Use Question, again (was: Vapulan Time Travel) Re: IN> Use Question, again (was: Vapulan Time Travel) Re: IN> Use Question, again (was: Vapulan Time Travel) IN> Horror Month/The First day is the hardest - Nightmares ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 17:02:54 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: Lilith's looks At 8:33 AM +1100 10/27/01, james walker wrote: >> and carry a toy owl >Hmm. are we SURE that Athena is an ethereal, and not a pseudonym Lilith uses >when slumming? Maybe Athena, the ethereal, includes elements of stories about Lilith... Maybe Athena, the ethereal, was once an escaped dream-fragment from Lilith's dreams, before Lilith became a Demon Princess. Do _you_ want to ask her? O:> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 17:06:20 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: Cruelty At 4:08 PM -0700 10/26/01, daiv wrote: >On Friday, October 26, 2001, at 02:31 PM, james walker wrote: > >> >>> This brings up another point, though; how subjective are >>> Gabriel's Choir Attunements? > >> >> For some reason, the line: "A smouldering wick he will not put out" was >> running through my head while thinking about this; it'd appeal to anyone >> associated with Fire. So maybe one important criteria is that punishment >> does not break the target, while cruelty does/intends to? Of course, >> that >> raises the question of whether it's intent or final result that >> matters.... > > I would say that Cruelty is, by definition, entirely about intent; Though don't forget the Seraphim of Fire -- they catch those who are cruel "by accident," I suspect. (And the nature of the punishment that Fire must mete out is -- up to the GM to give guidelines. As has been noted in the GMG, Fire could be fair and just, harsh, or have the duuumb angels pounding on a schoolyard bully while axe murderers stroll behind them.) [...] Which begs the question, can you >accidentally achieve your fate or destiny? I would say that it is >entirely possible. Sure -- though you must also embrace it. Which I generally interpret as a poetic form of deciding that what you did, is what you _wanted_ to do, in all its consequences known or unknown. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 16:57:48 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Use Question, again (was: Vapulan Time Travel) At 2:45 PM -0500 10/27/01, David Edelstein wrote: >Perry Lloyd wrote: >> Ah, so my item (b) is false, then. That which is posted to the list >> *doesn't* become the property of SJGames. > >The list and all contents are the property of SJGames, meaning that >technically, no one is allowed to REPOST anything from this list >anywhere else without SJGames' permission. Close, but some nuances aren't quite right, as I read the listrules. See: http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/listrules.html#copyright To paraphrase: SJGames has the rights to distribute your messages on the mailing list. SJGames has the Compilation Copyright, for making, distributing, and archiving the digest. (Don't distrubte the digest, technically, without asking permission!) _YOU_ have the individual copyright on your material, and can put your own posts on your own website. Also note that, after several posts back and forth to SJ, the INC maintainer du jour has implicit permission (barring explicit denial of that permission in the post itself) to consider anything posted to the list for inclusion. Getting that clause in there was _not_ entirely trivial. You're welcome. >[...] you couldn't get away >with selling a "Best of The In Nomine List" anthology without their >permission, and if you have stuff from the IN list posted on a website >that charges a subscription fee, SJGames would be entitled to demand you >either remove it or give them a cut.) Bingo. And due to the fact that IN is _already_ licensed from Siroz (et al?), it is possible that the terms of the license do _not_ allow sub-licenses. (I haven't seen the license, so I can't be sure; however, there may be a Non-Disclosure Agreement along with the license, such that if I knew what were in it, I couldn't even speculate!) Therefore, SJGames may be legally bound to have other IN material removed from other "publishers" who are attempting to profit (or break even) on the material! SJGames may have no legal way of granting permission to do that, at this time. (If you have a lot of money lying around, and can talk to both SJGames and Siroz, this might be fixable, of course.) >However, that doesn't imply that you can transfer intellectual property >to Steve Jackson Games by posting it on the list. If someone were to >post Stephen King's latest novel on the list,[...] Besides, it'd be off-topic, not to mention Too Much K! I'd _start_ by unsubbing... >By the same principle, the fact that SJGames owns the license for >translating the French edition of the game does NOT mean that Joe Random >Fan is allowed to post copyrighted Asmodee materials to the list. You'd >be violating Asmodee's copyright, and pissing off both Asmodee and SJG. Right. Again, see http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/listrules.html#copyright ... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 17:01:08 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Slew of Questions At 2:26 PM -0700 10/26/01, Jim Burzelic wrote: >Is there any information on Chicago, or the Great >Lakes regions? Dunno -- that's for someone else to answer. I don't think there's much, if anything, in canon. There might be some stuff in the Liber Castellorum (someone can check the index, which should include state-names where Tethers are present, and believe me, looking up some of the references to include such things, when it came time for the index to be crafted, was a bit of a bear. O:p ) >How many celestials are usually in a city? State? >How many Tethers are usually in a city? State? This depends on the GM. The Game Master's Guide has some suggestions. In our games (this not-be canon), we generally have a dozen celestials on each side and a selection of Soliders as support staff (IIRC, I'm not usually the GM). There are some ratios suggested in the GMG, such as 1 celestial per 10,000, 100,000, or 1,000 mortals. Tethers, likewise, are up to the GM -- there's more about them in the Liber Castellorum (book of Tethers, duh). O:> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 17:24:50 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> When Asmodeus is brassed off at a Servitor.... Alexi Vandemere aka Shock'nal'Oman Outcast Shedim Imprisoned in a Man Cor-4* Str-10 Agi-6 Eth-3* Int-8 Pre-4 Cel-2* Will-4 Per-4 Vessel: Corporeal forces 4/ Artifacts: Unholy Sword 6/ (inflicts Celestial damage even when he is not), Unholy Pistol 3/ (3 bullets) plus many minor artifacts he sweeps up after wars and trades to whatever factions are willing to swap (usually ethereals and angels) Role: Demonologist and Demon Hunter 6/ (Status 1 among mortals, 6 among Celestials and Occultists with a 6 in role due to the uniqueness of his existence) Servitors: 2 unsuspecting Scooby Gang Types, A powerful Human sorceror who depends on him, and a Repentant Vampiress 6/ Skills: Demonology 6/ (Habits, Physiology, Lore, etc), Dodge 6/, Fighting 6/, Langages (Most Human spoken and written from the Dawn of Time til present 3/) Large Weapon (Sword 5/), Ranged Weapon (Pistol 3/), Tracking 6/ ** Songs: Attraction (Celestial 3/), Form (Corporeal 3/), Claws 5/, Thunder 6/*** Attunements****: All Game Band Attunements, Unique Humanity variant * His forces at present are missing several stolen by Asmodeus. ** Many skills were lost with his missing Ethereal forces *** Ditto with Songs **** His Attunements were once much greater but the estorics Asmodeus took away before banishing, leaving the band in hopes of his return Shock'Nal'Oman's humanity attunement makes it impossible for anyone including Asmodeus to detect him even by his heart (the latter seems an unexpected side effect) but prevents him from doing anything but suggest actions with his resonance....Alexis and Shock have been together so long however it's difficult to distinguish where each one begins however now let alone ends. He cannot manifest himself celestially but can use songs and regenerates essence normally. He still cannot exchange it. Shock'nal'Oman was known as the Grand Huntsman of Asmodeus for more than two thousand years and with a a record of over 255 confirmed Outcast soul-killed and nearly as many Angelic Deaths plus literally thousands killed among mortals and vessels. His loyalty to the cause of Evil was unquestionable and if there was anyone who truly understood Asmodeus's need to punish Demons who didn't play by the rules it was Shock'nal'Oman. That all changed with Angelina who was Shock'nal'Oman's personal assistant and perhaps one of the most vile Impudites in punishing foes ever born. During Shock'Nal'Oman's tenure as a Gamester attached to aiding Dominic in hunting the Rogue Prince Makatiel however Angelina (then known by a different name) had a change of heart due to the near destruction of humanity and decided to defect to Heaven. Shock'Nal'Oman had fallen in love with his servants evil and though his rage was great he commited the one unforgivable sin among the servants of the Game and let her escape. Asmodeus's fury was beyond all reason as it was not only a slap in the face of one of his favored servitors but also it is believed that he too felt something for Shock'nal'Oman and that it was a personal betrayal. Soul-killing Angelina before his eyes Asmodeus could think of no punishment good enough for his wayward servitor until he decided to inflict the most grizzly punishment on the person who hated humanity above all things and made him one of the things he most despised. "Grafting" his form onto a newborn human infant Asmodeus carefully altered the humanity and Shedim attunements so that the Demon soul was unable to directly control the mortal but could not escape and only influence. To say Alex Vandemere grew up as a troubled child is to say the least as he ended up burning down his family's house and being commited into an insane asylum for the violently ill by the time he was 8. He might have escaped easily enough had not Alex decided to take this time to do some soul-searching. Above all things the Demon valued human pride and the boy's soul hated more than anything what he had been driven to that barely 12 they struck a bargain that would color their lives. The pair would destroy and kill every demon in the Symphony....somehow. Only then would Asmodeus realize just how foolish it was to treat a prized servitor that way. Getting a clean bill of health by the time he was sixteen he managed to bluff his way into a high school education and a doctorate in mythology. His work on demon's internationally reknowned...able to pick out his fellow demons as a glance he very slowly murdered each and every one of them he could by turning them upon each other and gaining the necessary equipment to destroying them. No fan of Angels he's perfectly willing also to turn them upon one another in war and his hunts have mad this "strange mortal" a favorite among the Archangels whom he has said he would prefer to operate independantly of due to his "visions from God" (he knows better than to say that line to a Seraph) Alexi who is now approaching his thirty six birthday has detected an unfortunate recent trend that he has not yet eradicated demon kind and is loathe to explain his behavior to Asmodeus whom he does not yet realize has completely forgotten about his former servitor once he had punished him. To that end Alexis has stepped up his efforts and recruited several "followers" to aid in his quest as he begins to think grander such as developing a disease that will destroy all vessels naturally and remain dormant on the Earth (he hopes to make a virulent soul model from Makatiel's knowledge but that is hard to come by) and it would only deny all celestials access to Earth-that's not enough to pay for his humiliation. Worse shock despite his skill with the Fabled sword of the Demogorgon (containing supposadly some of his forces) and other gifts to the mortal Alexis is not entirely satisfied with Shock'Nal'Oman's plans for the future. Especially regarding the repentent vampire Grace whom the mortal body feels an increasing affection for. Recognizing he needs the power of his ally he has done nothing about it yet but is worried to death to face again the pain that he felt with Angelina.... Pain that infects him with good. - -Charlemagne _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 22:54:29 +0000 From: "R L" Subject: Re: IN> Horror Month: Battle Plan WOW!!!! That more or less sums it up I think... Ron "The breath of the fluteplayer, does it belong to the flute?" - -Rumi _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 02:18:17 +0000 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> The Seraphim Council Who presides over the Seraphim Council? I thought it was Laurence; other suggestions have included Michael, Dominic, or Marc. Thank you, Janet Anderson * * * * And they shall rebuild the old ruins, They shall raise up the former desolations, And they shall repair the ruined cities ... Isaiah 61:4 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 22:44:56 -0400 From: Mike Bruner Subject: Re: IN>Question about Revelation >>>Is the GM's Screen out of print? >> >> Yup. That's why my first reply noted that ebay had a copy for sale. O:> > > Makes me glad I did that fanboyish mass purchase of all the available In >Nomine material in the Summer of '98. Oddly enough my local gaming store had almost everything but all of the Revelations Cycle and some of the Liber stuff availible (at least until I bought it, anyway ;)), so I never had trouble getting anything. Actually, I think they still have a copy of the screen around in there; if anybody's desperate enough for it, feel free to ask and I'll see if it's still there. - -- Mike Bruner-- bruner@delaware.infi.net I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me at once. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 22:33:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Re: Notre Dame - --- james walker wrote: > Somehow, I don't think those problems are going to occur > in a prison run by angels! Depends on which Word, I'd say -- but Notre Dame was written as a Swordie thing, so I suppose you're right about that one. > > The thought struck me, that the sneakier SOH might > arrange to be captured as > a simple way to avoid going to Hell. [snip] Not > everyone's idea of paradise but certainly > better than, say Sheol. Hmmm. Good point. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "The surest way to keep a secret is to make people believe they already know the answer." - -- Fremen saying __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 22:45:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Converting Hardcore to Destruction Eyaaaaaah! On the Munchkin Scale, these go to 11. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "The surest way to keep a secret is to make people believe they already know the answer." - -- Fremen saying __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 01:51:48 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> The Seraphim Council >Who presides over the Seraphim Council? I thought it was Laurence; other >suggestions have included Michael, Dominic, or Marc. > >Thank you, > >Janet Anderson I don't know about canon, but I like the idea of it being Dominic, actually. Who else would you be as sure would interpret the procedures and count votes as fairly, regardless of his own opinions? He probably doesn't have as many powers as, say, the Speaker of the House or the President of the Senate(those are *powerful* positions, and not ones that other factions would want to see in one being on a permanent basis), but he'd keep order and tally the votes. >* * * * >And they shall rebuild the old ruins, >They shall raise up the former desolations, >And they shall repair the ruined cities ... > Isaiah 61:4 William ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 22:49:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> When Asmodeus is brassed off at a Servitor.... Ewww. That's a dirty trick to play on an infant. But then, this IS Horror Month. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "The surest way to keep a secret is to make people believe they already know the answer." - -- Fremen saying __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 01:19:01 -0500 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> The Seraphim Council > Who presides over the Seraphim Council? I thought it was Laurence; other > suggestions have included Michael, Dominic, or Marc. I don't recall it ever having been mentioned in Canon. In my campaign.... Technically, Laurence has the power, should he want it. But he's busy, you know, *running the war*. So he cedes it to Dominic. But Dominic is a smart cookie and realizes that the Council, being political in nature, deals with issues that are too important to allow things like Michael's massive ego (cough*hyena*cough) to interefere. So he asks someone who's an expert at politics, human and celestial resources, and getting folks to work together. Which suits Marc just fine. Y'see, he *likes* presiding over the Seraphim council. He understands the necessity of compromise (aka Trade) in politics, just about everyone likes him, and it's the biggest Board of Directors in the universe and he's running the meeting. - -- Casca Who else would enjoy what is essentially a bureaucratic task? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 07:12:43 +0000 From: "Jonathan Walton" Subject: IN> Tattered Media Blizzard pt1 Hey all, As Webmaster and (self-elected) Propoganda Chief for the "Tattered Symphony" Netbook, a sweet little package coming to you within the next few weeks (concepts and editing by Moe Lane), I would like to commence with the Tattered Media Blizzard. In an effort to build up excitment for the Netbook's official release (and boy am I excited, let me tell you), I'm going to post little ads for Tattered every few days leading up to the release, culminating with "Tattered: the Movie v2.0" (a Flash flick, which will hopefully coincide with the release of the Netbook's v1.0). Here goes. Today's offerings: Got Larry? http://www.godmachine.org/tattered/propoganda/prop-gotlarry.jpg You Can't Handle the Truth http://www.godmachine.org/tattered/propoganda/prop-truth.jpg New stuff's coming as fast as I can make it. Hopefully, the other Tattered heretics will pitch in to help me out too. Maybe, Eric will even post excerpts of the Bramswitch Folio, who knows? If all goes well, the Netbook should be playable by mid-November, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed until then. Later. Jonathan _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 12:12:43 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Insomnia Special Cells Sequal... I am, literally, dizzy with fatigue from the insomnia bout last night. O:p Therefore, if this is incoherant and typo'ed... Well, hopefully the concept is worth it. Now, everyone here's read the bit about the Cells of Notre Dame, right? How the Hellsworn imprisoned there have counselors who work on them, trying to get them to permet their Infernal Force to be stripped? Well, sometimes it happens. A lot of those, who only had the potential for 6 Forces anyway, wind up as 5-Force "mundanes." (See the CPG.) After depositing in a Memory Pearl (see LiberR) any memories that Heaven deems unsuitable for them to have, they can either leaven Notre Dame or (and this is encouraged, if they've made a complete conversion (which is, natch, what many of the counselors hope to do)) stick around the place, or some other Tether, and function as "mundane," aware support staff.* [*that's a horrible, convoluted sentence but I'm tired so it's going to stay that way.] But there's a small percentage of Hellsworn who either were 6 Forces naturally, or who had a _7th_ potential Force. Some of those even had that 7th Force manifested, which really makes Archangels want to bang their heads into a wall, because they (along with the natural 6-Forcers) are still Soldiers. But (after getting rid of those pesky memories, yay Memory Pearls!) with enough Malakim and Elohim and Mercurians around, a real conversion can be spotted. Heck, some Soldiers nee Hell get pretty mad at how they were treated by demons! Some of them really want to strike back! (Michael loves these guys, of course. David's been known to approve as well. Think about the average Calabite's treatment of any Soldier under its command. Gabriel sometimes shows up, giggles, and hands out a SMITE attunement, which is generally taken as approval of the "redeemed" Soldier.) Now, that's all well and good, and can be an interesting background for a Soldier (as PC or NPC). Considering how long some people take to convert, you could have a _mortal_ whose last experience with the world was horse- and-buggy... And wouldn't _that_ freak out some celestials? (Especially if you rule that the Soldier spent a good chunk of time training, and are using GURPS IN and GURPS Special Ops. Whazza matter, never seen a 200-point mortal before? ) And then there's the small percent of the small percent of conversions** who are soooooooooooooo PO'ed at Hell now, that they want to hit Hell where it hurts. They want to keep their Infernal Force, and fight Hell, and die, and _keep_ fighting Hell. [**who are a small percent of captured Hellsworn, who are a small percent of Hellsworn, who are a small percent of humanity...] The theory, you see, is that these lunatic fringe Hellsworn Soldiers of God (just thinking that makes Laurence twitch a feather) will train themselves up (especially in ethereal combat, and celestial combat as well if such can be managed), eventually die (some like lethal injection, some walk into known Hell Tethers and go postal***), and be dragged to Hell by the weight of their Infernal Force returning to sender. [***In questionable taste, yes. OTOH, fanatics are fanatics, and anyone who's actually playing IN to _think_ about stuff like this might want to squint at the concept.] Once in Hell, the Hellsworn Soldier of God hopes to blend into the rest of the damned souls, evade notice as much as possible, and foment human rebellion. (As an aid to this, their characteristics are generally boosted by the 3 pre-Force points max. So even if stripped down a Force or two, they're still a little more competant than the average damned of the same Force-total.) Now, a yet smaller percentage of these don't get to the "foment rebellion among the damned" stage, since they've somehow hit their destinies and the Angels of Final Judgment aren't keen on letting blessed souls go into Hell. This can result in an ex-Hellsworn sulking around Heaven for a while, but hey, this is what Saints are for, right? And a lot of them just get squished, probably, when a demon doesn't like their attitude. And some may get herded into the Lower Hells, as part of Lucifer's 10% off the top of the soul-allocation system. And some give up and sell out (or try to; did we mention that they aren't taught anything that is considered 'sensitive'? Baal's well-aware of the "training camp" dream-sims that are Blandine's one concession to the War Party of Heaven.). And some give up and try to blend in with the rest of the damned and eke out a damned existance. But how many survive, with their obsession intact within them, and are hiding out _right now_ in the caverns of Stygia and the alleys of Shal-Mari? How many in the halls of Tartarus and the sets of Perdition? How many skulk in Gehenna, spreading the notion that humans outnumber demons? How many whisper in Hades, asking whether the hand that holds the lash, or the hand that files the paperwork is more powerful? How many drift about in Beleth's Tower, coming together in groups for a moment to give a demon a look as of a cluster of rats with bloodied fangs -- before scattering...? Mmm, there's a thought to make a demon sleep well at night. Even Demon Princes sometimes want to bang their heads against a wall at the thought that, among everything _else_ important that they have to deal with, the little fleas might swarm up and try to disrupt things. But there're so _many_ of the little damned monkeys. You can't squish all of them... And the rumors that some have Heavenly McGuffins, Songs or relics designed to tap into the Light of Heaven or other nasty, demon-hurting things... Can't trust any of 'em. And if there are any Hellsworn God-boys left in Hell, they take the hostility of the Princes toward humanity and twist it to their own ends. A little here, a little there. Maybe they're just waiting for Armageddon. Maybe not. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 12:40:27 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> The Seraphim Council At 2:18 AM +0000 10/28/01, Janet Anderson wrote: >Who presides over the Seraphim Council? I thought it was Laurence; other >suggestions have included Michael, Dominic, or Marc. It probably varies, depending on what's "on deck," and who's involved, and whose Words pertain... I suspect that Dominic does anything relating to trial-status (see the stuff about Uriel in The Marches), Laurence does General Pertaining To The Nature Of The War stuff, and Marc probably does stuff which no one else wants to touch. In very heated cases, there may be motions to hand the "he who recognizes others to speak and calms chaos" job off to Jean or Yves. But then, I'm not sure there's canon anywhere, and I certainly can't recall any (except the Marches bit, and that was a trial anyway, so may not count), but then, I'm literally dizzy from lack of sleep right now. O:> At 1:19 AM -0500 10/28/01, Eric Bertish wrote: >Which suits Marc just fine. Y'see, he *likes* presiding over the Seraphim >council. He understands the necessity of compromise (aka Trade) in politics, >just about everyone likes him, [...] Actually, Marc comes in as the _least_ liked Archangel, if you count each "Allied" as +2, "Associated" as +1, and "Hostile" as -1, and total it all up. Or so I recall from the spouse doing so. But everyone dilikes him equally, maybe? O:> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 12:53:04 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: IN> Signed Fall of the Malakim auction... The GIFDA is auctioning off various items, and I found this on the list today. If you're a completist like myself, or if you're just a fiend for signed things, give it a look: http://www.gidfa.org/auction/item.php?id=c65fdbbc134ea9840373d5faef99773b ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 19:28 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) From: jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) Subject: Re: IN> Slew of Questions In article , emccoy@nh.ultranet.com (Elizabeth McCoy) wrote: > At 2:26 PM -0700 10/26/01, Jim Burzelic wrote: > >How many celestials are usually in a city? State? > >How many Tethers are usually in a city? State? > > This depends on the GM. The Game Master's Guide has some > suggestions. In our games (this not-be canon), we generally > have a dozen celestials on each side and a selection of Soliders > as support staff ... It depends on the city, too. There seems to be a tendency for older cities and cities which have more-than-average influence (eg, national or state capitals) to have slightly more celestials. Rhodri is running London, England, which fulfills both of those criteria. The PCs are essentially the angelic troubleshooters for West London, and there's half-a-dozen of us. There seem to be quite a few more angels based in Tethers, although we don't know how many of them are there full-time. And we /definitely/ don't know how many demons there are in London. - --- John Dallman jgd@cix.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 14:52:16 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Signed Fall of the Malakim auction... At 12:53 PM -0600 10/28/01, Prodigal wrote: >The GIFDA is auctioning off various items, and I found this on the list >today. If you're a completist like myself, or if you're just a fiend for >signed things, give it a look: > >http://www.gidfa.org/auction/item.php?id=c65fdbbc134ea9840373d5faef99773b Hee! Hey, if anyone wants to get it to me, once it's bought, I'll sign it too. (If you want, of course.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 15:19:34 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Tattered Media Blizzard pt1 Jonathan, if you're not in advertising, you missed your calling. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "The surest way to keep a secret is to make people believe they already know the answer." - -- Fremen saying __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 18:45:21 -0500 (EST) From: ydobyns@princeton.edu Subject: Re: IN> Use Question, again (was: Vapulan Time Travel) On Sat, 27 Oct 2001, David Edelstein wrote: [...] > By the same principle, the fact that SJGames owns the license for > translating the French edition of the game does NOT mean that Joe Random > Fan is allowed to post copyrighted Asmodee materials to the list. You'd > be violating Asmodee's copyright, and pissing off both Asmodee and SJG. I find the phrasing here interesting. *Does* SJGames, in fact, own a license for translating INS/MV into English? Because the actual English-language In Nomine game published under the licensing agreement is a distinctly different beast from a translation of INS/MV; with different mechanics, different Superiors, etc., it is at best a "derivative work". If SJGames' existing license would also cover simply translating INS/MV into English, otherwise as-is, the comments of some posters would suggest the existence of a market for such a product... ....though not, perhaps, a market big enough to make the product worth producing. I know that I, at least, would not be much interested. From the descriptions of seen of what goes on in INS/MV, it seems to derive a lot of its "edge" from the overwhelming dominance of Roman Catholicism as the state religion of France, and from that religion's loss of moral authority and political influence as modern French culture has grown increasingly secularized. This is French cultural baggage that doesn't "translate" well for an American audience, no matter what language it's written in. York Dobyns ydobyns@princeton.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 21:07:40 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Use Question, again (was: Vapulan Time Travel) ydobyns@princeton.edu wrote: > I find the phrasing here interesting. *Does* SJGames, in fact, own a > license for translating INS/MV into English? I'm not privvy to the details of the license. I don't think even Beth is. Probably SJG _could_ publish a straight translation if they wanted to, but I'm just guessing. > If SJGames' existing license would also cover simply translating INS/MV > into English, otherwise as-is, the comments of some posters would suggest > the existence of a market for such a product... The comments of posters on this list indicate there is a market for virtually anything you could name with an "In Nomine" label. Propose "In Nomine Bodice-Ripping Romantic Fantasy," "In Nomine Senzar," or "In Nomine Granola Bars with Vitamin C added" and there will be a contingent here vocally insisting that they'd buy it immediately. Unfortunately, that market is likely to turn out to be in the double digits out in the real world. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 22:19:38 -0500 From: Mason Kramer Subject: Re: IN> Use Question, again (was: Vapulan Time Travel) On 10/28/01 10:07 PM, "David Edelstein" wrote: > Propose "In > Nomine Bodice-Ripping Romantic Fantasy," "In Nomine Senzar," or "In > Nomine Granola Bars with Vitamin C added" and there will be a contingent > here vocally insisting that they'd buy it immediately. Unfortunately, > that market is likely to turn out to be in the double digits out in the > real world. Now, David... There's a limit to this trend. I can state quite emphatically that I will never buy "In Nomine Granola Bars with Vitamin C added." Unless, of course, there was a writeup of the Angel of Granola on the inside label.... Mason Angel of... Um... I forget.... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 23:40:08 -0500 (EST) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> Use Question, again (was: Vapulan Time Travel) On Sun, 28 Oct 2001, David Edelstein wrote: > The comments of posters on this list indicate there is a market for > virtually anything you could name with an "In Nomine" label. Propose "In > Nomine Bodice-Ripping Romantic Fantasy," "In Nomine Senzar," or "In > Nomine Granola Bars with Vitamin C added" and there will be a contingent > here vocally insisting that they'd buy it immediately. Unfortunately, > that market is likely to turn out to be in the double digits out in the > real world. Um, yeah... what he said. I'm going to buy In Nomine Anime. I'm going to buy it for two reasons. Primus, I really want to encourage the production of new In Nomine material, enough to throw money at SJG to make that clear. Secondus, it's fairly cheap so it's a decent value considering that I'll never do anything but flip through it. I don't plan on running it. I've read the playtest file, and it seems like a good primer on Anime. I might use it, actually, if I ever run a mecha game. Otherwise, it's not useful to me. If it were a $21.99 sourcebook, I wouldn't buy it. Frankly, if I wasn't so concerned about the status of the In Nomine line, I wouldn't buy it. I'm thinking of my $10 as an INVESTMENT in keeping the line going, not as buying a product that I don't need or (really) want. A direct translation of the INS/MV line would neato. I'd probably even pay for it. But it's the last thing you want to release when you're trying just to keep In Nomine afloat... (I consider the release of all that Deluxe Illuminati stuff a sign that INWO was abandoned, frankly...) - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! Information is not knowledge. Knowledge is not wisdom. Wisdom is not truth. Truth is not beauty. Beauty is not love. Love is not music. Music is _the best_. -- Frank Zappa, "Packard Goose" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 04:32:12 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Horror Month/The First day is the hardest - Nightmares Partasah chuckled. "So another newly made Sister, trapped in Hell, so desperate for a Vessel that she's thinking of offering herself to Andrealphus as payment. Haven't you been warned, little one, of how he'll bend your mind, and enslave you with your own passions?" Trinitite jumped. She had been deep in own thoughts, and to have her own fears voiced was a shock. She stepped back, and gazed at the speaker, an older Lilim. "Well? Can't you speak? I don't have all day!" Trinitite took a deep breath. 'Yes, I was warned about the Prince of Lust. But I was also told that he's one of the better Prince's to get a Vessel from; and the tricks to keep control of my mind...' "Better? Better than many, true. But you are unpractised - to pit your mind against a Prince, as your first test of your resolve, is insane. Scores of Free Lilim have ended up binding themselves to Lust - generally by making the mistake you are considering. This is something my Word screams against, and I seek to prevent it." 'And you are?' Trinitite asked. "Captain Partasah, Demon of Nightmares Of Being Trapped In Relationships. When I have the time, I like to warn my new sisters of the threats to their freedom, and so serve both Lilith and Beleth. Now, why are you so desperate for a Vessel." 'I hate Hell.' Trinitite confessed. 'I hate being surrounded by Damned Souls, obnoxious demonlings and psychotic demons. I want to be somewhere that I can have fun - I want to go to the Corporeal.' "Understandable - but don't let The Game hear you complaining about Hell, they might be able to use it as an excuse to have you executed..." - - she smiled to herself as the youngster began to sweat - "although most of the Sisterhood would agree with you. So you want to leave Hell, and want a Vessel so that you can go to the Corporeal - why not earn a Vessel while serving in The Marches? That way you can leave here Hell immediately, and get your vessel without endangering your freedom." She smiled at the girl. Trinitite looked suspicious. 'So, you're trying to recruit me into the service of Nightmares?' Partasah laughed. "Child, I LOATHE relationships - including being bound to a Superior. If you want to sign yourself over to Nightmares, go down to the bargaining room - you can enslave yourself there. What I seek is to terrify people out of enslaving themselves - a task that keeps me very busy, I can assure you. And a simple rule I have learnt is this: if you wish to remain free, encourage Freedom around you. And that is not something you will learn from Lust: they want everyone enslaved to their passions. Freedom requires a healthy dose of fear - to always wonder how people are manipulating you, how they seek to control you: and to flee from your enemies. And to free others - - even if they don't remain free, it makes it harder for those who enjoy enslaving you - and the harder their job, the easier it will be for you to stay free." Trinitite nodded; this was similar to what other Free Lilim had said. 'But how do nightmares free people?' "Usually, nightmares are better at warning humans of threats to their freedom. But it's not just humans who are slaves - humans keep slaves as well, and not just of their own kind. In every dreamscape there are dream spirits, Ethereals who have been created by the human to serve until destroyed. And humans do whatever they please to their slaves, using them as toys, or killing them, or blaming them and punishing them for things the human has done in the Corporeal. These Ethereals do not even know that the rest of The Marches exist; they believe that their universe ends at the borders of the humans dreamscape. They are only a thought away from the freedom to roam The Marches, yet will remain slaves forever: unless destroyed - or rescued." 'And Beleth pays for these rescues?' "No, of course not: she is Nightmares, not Freedom. What she does pay for is Ethereals who will serve her; many Ethereals do contract work for Nightmares. It's a good idea - or haven't you been warned about Heaven, and their bloodthirsty Malakim? Heaven hates Freedom; and just as they enslave humans to themselves, as they attempted to enslave Mother, they slaughter Ethereals who break free from being the slaves of humans. Nightmares has the power to protect them. And it is a free choice; for the Ethereals have their own organisations, so a newly freed Ethereal can choose from many choices - whether to go it alone, or join a pantheon, or to do contract work for Beleth. Working for Beleth is the safest option, and the only one which involves doing contract work rather than swearing allegiance; but the other options are important." 'So how do you rescue these spirits?' "There is a Song known as the Corporeal Song of Dreams which allows you to enter a dreamscape; while there you persuade them to leave - which is fulfilling one of Mother's Rites, of course. They're not normally terribly bright - humans don't like the idea of them freeing themselves - but you can usually get the idea into their minds without to much difficulty. They have the ability to follow you out; once free, you can show them around The Marches and introduce them to potential employers - in return for them owing you a Geas, of course!" 'But I don't know that Song...' "Of course not - you need permission to learn it. Beleth offers it for the lowest price anyway, so you just include that cost in your contract; generally, getting a spirit to do contract work for Nightmares covers the cost of the Song - or of a simple Vessel. Tougher Vessels require more spirits, of course. Make sure that as part of your contract with Nightmares, you get permission to do deals with the Ethereal pantheons; that way, no matter who a freed spirit decides to live with, you can charge both the spirit and it's new employer." As Trinitite headed down to the main bargaining hall, Partasah leaned against the wall, feeling sick. Her Word screamed at her - the newbie was doomed! Would owe to much, would end up swearing allegiance to Beleth! Trinitite did not understand how many dream spirits were too stupid to flee their dreamscape, or too frail to survive outside it. She lacked the skills to negotiate with the pantheons, and would be obliged to push the handful she rescued towards Nightmares. She did not realise that she would end up owing Nightmares for protecting her from roaming angels, or for rescuing her from constricting dreamscapes.... Partasah sobbed softly as a Word Force burned away; and with it a mighty life-geas. She wished - - -that she hadn't chosen to serve Beleth when she had first been created. Had had a chance to be Free. But she had been afraid; Beleth had chosen the Forces well, and Partasah had been to afraid to be Free; had chosen to serve Nightmares. She hated - feared - needed the relationship with Nightmares; that was how she had finally earned her Word. She would never be able to persuade Beleth to trade her back to Mother, she knew. She was trapped in a relationship with no hope of escape. Her desire to flee was also her greatest fear, so Beleth played apon it, demanding Geases in return for hiding Partasah's desire to go Renegade from The Game. One was gone, but there were so many... Wrapped in her own terrors, she returned to her Nightmare relationship in Beleth's realm. ===================================================================== James. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2424 ********************************