in_nomine-digest Friday, November 9 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2436 In this digest: Re: IN> Pyramid Scenario Re: IN> Pyramid Scenario Re: IN> SF Jordi? IN> Alternate Realities Re: IN> Project - Silence Re: IN> SF Jordi? Re: IN> Alternate Realities Re: IN> SF Jordi? IN> Reassigning Servitors, fast-tracking Words? (Re: The Angel of Scouts) Re: IN> SF Jordi? Re: IN> Project - Silence Re: IN> SF Jordi? Re: IN> Alternate Realities Re: IN> Brainstorming SF Request Re: IN> Alternate Realities Re: IN> Alternate Realities Re: IN> Brainstorming SF Request Re: IN> SF Jordi? Re: IN> Alternate Realities Re: IN> Alternate Realities Re: IN> Project - Silence Re: IN> Brainstorming SF Request Re: IN> Brainstorming SF Request IN> For Those Who Hate The d666... Re: IN> Alternate Realities IN> Yes, I am part of the conspiracy... Re: IN> Brainstorming SF Request Re: IN> Yes, I am part of the conspiracy... Re: IN> Yes, I am part of the conspiracy... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 10:35:52 -0700 From: Timothy Groth Subject: Re: IN> Pyramid Scenario My advice is Superior (even if it's an ethereal of that caliber) involvement with angelic mysteries, and Demons of Secrets. If something is a mystery to heaven it has to be special. Mundane things are handled by mundane authorities and Soldiers. Angels are used precisely because the situation can't just be resonated out of existence. If that was the case mundane means would be sufficient, maybe with a newly assigned angel on as support. Since there are a limited number of things which can prevent angelic resonance from working those are the types of investigations that PCs will be drawn into. One of the ones that I had work was a sorcerer creating soulless servants which were essentially animated low-grade vessels. The resonances didn't work any better on them than they would on innanimate objects and as a result the mystery was what were these apparently human things which weren't acting properly and then where were they coming from. After that the actual progress on the mystery of who was behind the crimes they were committing could be solved. Some fun negotiation with Demons of Dark Humor later and the PCs were breaking down the door of the sorcerer for the one fight in the game. Basically any gimmick you can think of that'll work is a good thing. The gimmicks are why favored servitors are on the case. If the players complain that their mysteries are gimmicky then they just aren't going to like angelic mysteries in In-Nomine. Personally I've always liked demonic mysteries better. All you need to do is convince your Superior that you've found a plausable scape goat and made the problem go away, who cares about getting the actual culprit? - -- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 12:42:50 -0500 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Pyramid Scenario > II. Mercurians create work, but they're not really that > bad otherwise. I've never had a problem with my Mercurian PC. Instead of thinking up stuff on the fly for Joe Random NPC, I simply ask my player, "Okay, what kind of information are you looking for?" Then I tell her whatever is relevant for the check digit rolled. Everything else is assumed to have been detected, but dismissed as unimportant. > III. Some GM's dislike Malakim because they're combat > monsters. Wrong! Malakim only have a _reason_ to fight > (as do Cherubim, but few GM's object to them). Players who > understand the game and want a PC whose Resonance helps in > combat play Ofanim. I think that last sentence should be re-parsed to "Players who are in tune with their inner Munchkin play Ofanim." ;) - -- Casca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 12:52:43 -0500 From: "Jeffery Watkins" Subject: Re: IN> SF Jordi? >Jeffery Watkins wrote: > > > Should Jordi oversee alien animal life? > >That's simplest. In which case, he may have been so remote from >most Heavenly politics with regard to humanity simply because >he had so much else on his mind. > >Or Jordi could be the regional AA of Animals, with another such >AA for each animal-bearing planet, which makes like very complicated >when humans begin colonizing. Who gets jurisdiction over the >Terran cows on the prairies of Alpha Centauri or the Centaurian >Wheel-Bears in the London Zoo? Went with the AA over all animals. Since Superiors can manifest themselves multiple places it didn't seem that much of a problem. I like the idea proprosed earlier with an Angel of every Zoosphere, of Earth, Alpha Centauri, etc, that reports to Jordi. > >How much complication do you want in your life? A lot, it helps keep my mind off of the complication of real life. ;) > > > Along this same thinking, should there be a AA of Alien life/ > > civilizations? > >One AA hardly seems enough if the aliens outnumber the humans >by the factor they usually do in space opera. > >Earl The general gist is its a humancentric game. The War is over humanity's free will and the aliens are actually humanity's creation (rather-they will be/are via time travel). So my ponderings were more along the lines that since Jordi has a wide variety of life that falls under his watch, that perhaps only one AA or DP would be necessary for the variety of aliens. Thanks for the input! Jeffery _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 11:55:32 -0600 (CST) From: Bryan Jonker Subject: IN> Alternate Realities I am starting a new campaign, and call upon the listserv's help. The campaign is set up where there are many alternate dimensions (over 1000). Each dimension has the potential for life. Some dimensions have humanoid life where things have mirrored Earth closely, and others have non-humanoid life (silicon life form, Earth world where the South has won the Civil War, GURPS Goblins, etc.). There is a company similar to GURPS Time Travel where they can go from dimension to dimension. They generally set up trade agreements, explore new worlds, etc. etc. The PCs are part of this organization - the campaign will focus on one world, but they may go to other dimensions. I want to introduce In Nomine to this campaign. However, how do I reconcile the "multiple worlds" with "angel/devil structure"? I've thought of five choices: 1. Have the celestial and ethereal areas transcend the dimensions. All the angels and devils (or at least the archangels and princes) know about the different dimensions, and may swap one world for another. I don't know how to play this - I mean, with an infinite number of worlds, why bother about one? Armeggedon doesn't have the oomph if it's only one world. Or would Armeggedon mean all the dimensions would go bye-bye? 2. Have the celestials be unaware of the dimensions and just battle in one dimension. I'm kind of nervous about this one - does this mean God isn't omnipotent? 3. Have multiple versions of each archangel and prince - one per dimension. Again - makes me nervous. What happens if two Lawrences meet? And would non-human worlds have humanoid angels? 4. Scrap the In Nomine filter. 5. Something else. Suggestions? Has anyone else played/ran this type of campaign? Are there any sourcebooks that talk about this? I've already promised my wife that we would be using this world, so changing the world isn't an option. Thanks in advance. <---------------Bryan Jonker----------jonker@prairienet.org-------------> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 12:59:24 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Project - Silence Cute! You could keep players of Silence agents guessing for months - or very surprised in one electrifying session -- about the nature of the campaign. I notice they talked about the possibility of "containment." How would they do that? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 13:02:25 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> SF Jordi? By the way, if all the aliens out there are the result of genetic engineering combined with time-travel, it's no wonder we haven't been contacted by them -- they're afraid of influencing the history of their creators' ancestors. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 13:05:11 -0500 From: "Jeffery Watkins" Subject: Re: IN> Alternate Realities Hi, I am running something like this. Please feel free to email me directly at imagineerz@hotmail.com and we can talk concepts as I don't want to bog down the list with all of my explinations/campaign setting (as I have already with my questions). Jeffery _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 12:08:57 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> SF Jordi? Jeffery Watkins wrote: > > I wouldn't think so. However, each inhabitated world > >would have some AA's and DP's unique to it. And Salem, the > >Angel of Cities, would almost certainly be an AA in this > >setting. > > Would you mind expanding on this with Salem? There is an unofficial Archangel of Cities at http://www.amadan.org/Innomine/Bethanel.htm - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 13:04:04 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Reassigning Servitors, fast-tracking Words? (Re: The Angel of Scouts) At 4:26 AM +0800 11/9/01, Manny Nepomuceno wrote: >wouldn't make sense for me to hand Christopher a >Word-bound Malakite who received his Word in 1907, seeing as how >Christopher was raised to Archangel in the 1970's. (Actually, seeing as >how he already has at least two Word-bound Servitors (mentioned in H&H in >Christopher's Cathedral's writeup...whoa, I actually got a reference >right), I wonder whether the Seraphim Council fast-tracks his requests for >Words or something). I don't imagine that just because an angel is raised >to Archangel, related Words which conceptually fall under his are >automatically reassigned to him. There's probably some amount of fast-tracking (quite possibly for buddies of the new Superior who were working on similar Words already, at the same time!), and probably some angels petition to transfer because they think that they can serve better there, and friendly Archangels may transfer or at least loan experienced Servitors to the newbie. > I also don't imagine that Laurence would >be keen on letting any of his Servitors transfer to another Superior, >especially a Servitor who is, by angelic standards, newly Word-bound and >has yet to actually distinguish himself besides gaining his Word. Actually, Laurence might see it as tactically useful to reassign a compatible Word-bound who was experienced, to make sure that there were some "old hands" in the organization to help the newbies who would be created, or fledge from relieverhood. (I.e., impart Sword memetics into the mix! "Yes, children should be _honorable_!") Mind, this depends entirely upon one's personal conception of the situation and Superiors (and other angels) involved. O:> If it's more interesting to have a plot seed of Enticement (a little friendly poaching can be forgiven between Archangels, right?)... Hey, that works! - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 13:09:06 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> SF Jordi? At 6:54 PM -0500 11/8/01, Jeffery Watkins wrote: >Hi again, > >I meant to add a question about Jordi in the Brainstorming request: > >Should Jordi oversee alien animal life? I would think so, unless you've decreed that most Superiors are assigned to Earth, and other planets would have other Superiors... >Along this same thinking, should there be a AA of Alien life/civilizations? Only if it's _really_ Alien. I mean, if you _need_ an AA of Fbortzit, or a Prince of K'ee'tha*... Otherwise, the rest can stretch their Words... >I am taking the GURPS IN approach to alien life as they are created by >humanity, but my twist is that they were secretly seeded by future human >time travelers who wanted to add more variety to the universe. Most of them >are seeded in parallel universe, but some are in the main universe. So they're mostly Earth-based "aliens"? I'd _definitely_ say that you can stick with the existing Archangels, and Jordi might -- or might not! -- take some under his wings. * Translation from the Kintaran: approximately "copycat." In a society where personal "uniqueness" (personal style, personal trademark) is a mating strategy and prized, immitation is the deadliest form of insult... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 18:14:10 +0000 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> Project - Silence Yich. Asmodeus must be ROTFL whether this was his idea or not. Janet Anderson * * * * And they shall rebuild the old ruins, They shall raise up the former desolations, And they shall repair the ruined cities ... Isaiah 61:4 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 13:16:09 -0500 From: "Jeffery Watkins" Subject: Re: IN> SF Jordi? > >By the way, if all the aliens out there are the result of >genetic engineering combined with time-travel, it's no wonder >we haven't been contacted by them -- they're afraid of influencing >the history of their creators' ancestors. > >Earl Yes! At least the ones 'in-the-know', the others don't realize it or those that do keep it secret for fear of shattering their civilization's society. Jeffery _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 13:19:56 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Alternate Realities Bryan Jonker wrote: > I want to introduce In Nomine to this campaign. However, how do I > reconcile the "multiple worlds" with "angel/devil structure"? I've > thought of five choices: > > 1. Have the celestial and ethereal areas transcend the dimensions. I think this is your best choice. From the celestial point of view, assignment to one timeline or another is a minor extention of assignment to one nation or another. Most celestials with lots of Earthside time have been on several different lines. To give Armageddon and the War more impact, I recommend the following: Let there be a certain amount of natural "leakage" between lines. This accounts for mysterious disappearances, like the Mary Celests and the Bermuda Triangle, and occasional mysterious appearances like Caspar Hauser. It also means that all humans on all lines can be the descendants of Adam and Eve on one line, the other lines being colonized by small groups slipping sideways. (The same would apply to other species, too.) Besides natural leakage, you can use the Ethereal Plane to keep the histories of the lines vaguely in synch; it's where everyone's mind goes to dream, and maybe daydream. The result is that the "collective unconscious" transcends the lines, so big cultural movements tend to occur on all the inhabited lines at once. As a result of all this contact, the lines share a common destiny and Armageddon will happen to all of them at once. This becomes even easier if Armageddon is slated to happen after line-crossing technology becomes widespread and public. > Suggestions? Has anyone else played/ran this type of campaign? Our game has supernaturals AND space opera AND parallel worlds. I've suggested to our GM that the parallel worlds were created abou;64 million years ago (when the dinosaurs died out) during one phase of the War between Good and Evil, when a mondo demon managed to reverse the flow of time all over the universe, several times (one for each parallel), trying to re-run history in a manner more favorable to himself. He was eventually obliterated by Michael, but by then there were several dozen histories. Rather than let any of them simply terminate at the point where the demon pushed the rewind button, God extended all of them indefinitely, creating the parallel timelines. That was my suggestion. Our GM won't tell me if he's incorporated it into the game setting... Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 13:28:14 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Brainstorming SF Request Jeffery Watkins wrote: > >If all intelligent species have the same Superiors, then the Fall > >and the War are probably much older than in the canon history, > >maybe even older than Earth itself. > > Are you refering to if the intelligent species were non-gene tailored? > Otherwise, would you elaborate by what you mean? Thanks! I meant, if any of the aliens are REAL aliens, who were created by God / evolved on their own, without temporal meddling by future humans, then you have, on some scale, the standard space-opera situation, albeit one with a lot of human-seeded races added. In that case, the REAL aliens raise different IN theology questions. Some months ago, on the list, we bandied around the idea of IN Lensman, crossing IN with E. E. Smith's classic space opera. I recommended that, roughly, all corporeal intelligence, alien and human, be in the position of standard IN humans, that the War dated back billions of years, not a few millenia, and so forth. It seems to me to be a vital part of the "flavor" of the Superiors that they be beings of cosmic scope, however big the cosmos of the setting may be. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 13:33:41 -0500 From: "Jeffery Watkins" Subject: Re: IN> Alternate Realities Hi, I acutually found the short form answer: I am running a very similar campagin. How I resolved this was to make the celestial and ethereal as canon, but the corporeal has Echoes. The Echoes are the parallel worlds. The Superiors are mainly involved with the PCs plain called the Primeline, while the ethereals, which include all the variations of the infinite earths. They just get to make vessels in the Echoes without celestial interference. The parallels become the ethereal's 'playground.' Does this help? Regards, Jeffery >From: Bryan Jonker >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: IN> Alternate Realities >Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 11:55:32 -0600 (CST) > > > >I am starting a new campaign, and call upon the listserv's help. > >The campaign is set up where there are many alternate dimensions (over >1000). Each dimension has the potential for life. Some dimensions have >humanoid life where things have mirrored Earth closely, and others have >non-humanoid life (silicon life form, Earth world where the South has won >the Civil War, GURPS Goblins, etc.). There is a company similar to GURPS >Time Travel where they can go from dimension to dimension. They generally >set up trade agreements, explore new worlds, etc. etc. The PCs are part of >this organization - the campaign will focus on one world, but they may go >to other dimensions. > >I want to introduce In Nomine to this campaign. However, how do I >reconcile the "multiple worlds" with "angel/devil structure"? I've thought >of five choices: > >1. Have the celestial and ethereal areas transcend the dimensions. All the >angels and devils (or at least the archangels and princes) know about the >different dimensions, and may swap one world for another. I don't know how >to play this - I mean, with an infinite number of worlds, why bother about >one? Armeggedon doesn't have the oomph if it's only one world. Or would >Armeggedon mean all the dimensions would go bye-bye? > >2. Have the celestials be unaware of the dimensions and just battle in >one dimension. I'm kind of nervous about this one - does this mean God >isn't omnipotent? > >3. Have multiple versions of each archangel and prince - one per >dimension. Again - makes me nervous. What happens if two Lawrences meet? >And would non-human worlds have humanoid angels? > >4. Scrap the In Nomine filter. > >5. Something else. > >Suggestions? Has anyone else played/ran this type of campaign? Are >there any sourcebooks that talk about this? I've already promised my >wife that we would be using this world, so changing the world isn't an >option. Thanks in advance. > ><---------------Bryan Jonker----------jonker@prairienet.org-------------> > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 10:42:12 -0800 (PST) From: "There's no gravity, the world just sucks." Subject: Re: IN> Alternate Realities > I am starting a new campaign, and call upon the listserv's help. [snip] > I want to introduce In Nomine to this campaign. However, how do I > reconcile the "multiple worlds" with "angel/devil structure"? I've thought > of five choices: > > 1. Have the celestial and ethereal areas transcend the dimensions. All the > angels and devils (or at least the archangels and princes) know about the > different dimensions, and may swap one world for another. I don't know how > to play this - I mean, with an infinite number of worlds, why bother about > one? Armeggedon doesn't have the oomph if it's only one world. Or would > Armeggedon mean all the dimensions would go bye-bye? > > 3. Have multiple versions of each archangel and prince - one per > dimension. Again - makes me nervous. What happens if two Lawrences meet? > And would non-human worlds have humanoid angels? > > 4. Scrap the In Nomine filter. > > 5. Something else. Well, if there's one thing this list has proven, it's that there's always a way to fit that round peg into the square hole. Let's see... The easiest way would seem to be just to add another level of abstraction to everything. So, for example, the current superiors with Words that would apply to virtually any world would transcend the structure of the single world-nexus. In the same way that they can manifest in multiple places in a single world in canon IN, perhaps they have versions of themselves that apply to each of the many worlds. Or, alternately, have the 'super superiors' take a step back and work overall strategy, with their specific manifestations on each world handled by a 'mere superior' or high-level distincted servitor or some such. So that Vapula, the Prince of Technology, could be served in turn by Widget, the (Duke?) of Technology of Earth-L and Bob, the Duke of Technology of Earth-2, and... Etc. Each responsible for promotion of their superior's Word on that specific world, and assisted by more generalist or specific servitors. Which means that the level of 'customer service' you get from an invocation could vary, not only from superior to superior, but from world to world, depending on who ends up taking the 'call' for the boss. Each celestial plane could apply to all worlds collectively, with tethers to a specific world being gathered in some manner befitting each plane. Heaven's could be neatly arrayed around/inside the Cathedral of each Superior, while Hell could, in addition to the normal centers of Superiors' power, have a patchwork of thousands of little patches of territory where tethers to each world end up anchored, and continually being squabbled over. Or something. The main wacky issues would be a serious separation between Servitors working the corporeal side, and Servitors actually on the celestial plane who see more of the big picture. Asmodeus, Dominic, Kronos and Yves would have plenty to do working to keep a handle on 'cross-contamination'. Although this is helped if some of the worlds that would benefit from this actually have different physical rules... For worlds with different species types, (like GURPS Goblins) you could use the bit from IN Anime where every celestial type has a 'humanoid form', and just have the form be perceived as that species' type. (Well, unless the celestial in question /wants/ to be confusing)... The non-humanoid forms could still be the same (big flaming wheels of fire are pretty universal). And, of course, it raises some interesting issues. Armaggedon would have to be a truly massive clash across all worlds and planes. It'd be much harder to orchestrate a trick like what happened in the Rev cycle when you've got so many worlds. And if Superiors transcend individual worlds, then how do we know for sure that any of them really died? Imagine the lone, forgotten world where a piece of Legion is slowly rebuilding. Or Raphael. Or Oannes. Or Gebbeleth... And if you're using the multi-world campaign from GURPS Time Travel... just who would be behind Centrum... (dramatic chord!) - --JT ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 10:47:44 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Brainstorming SF Request - --- Jeffery Watkins wrote: > Yes! Wait! There is an Angel of Spacecraft? Is there a > write-up anywhere? Not to my knowledge, and certainly not in canon. Seems like it's fair game; go for it. > Thanks for the input! You're quite welcome. 08> ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Love is an exploding cigar which we willingy smoke." -- Linda Barry __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Find a job, post your resume. http://careers.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 10:50:16 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> SF Jordi? - --- Jeffery Watkins wrote: > Would you mind expanding on this with Salem? Glad to. In canon, she's pretty close to Superior status as is -- and that's with only a few hundred cities on a single planet. Now imagine the Essence flow she'd be getting if there were as few as a hundred inhabitated worlds, each of which had only half that many cities. The downside, of course, is that the Demon of Cities would be a Prince by that same logic. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Love is an exploding cigar which we willingy smoke." -- Linda Barry __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Find a job, post your resume. http://careers.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 18:51:54 From: "Michael Cleveland" Subject: Re: IN> Alternate Realities >I want to introduce In Nomine to this campaign. However, how do I >reconcile the "multiple worlds" with "angel/devil structure"? I've >thought >of five choices: > >1. Have the celestial and ethereal areas transcend the dimensions. All >the >angels and devils (or at least the archangels and princes) know >about the >different dimensions, and may swap one world for another. I >don't know how >to play this - I mean, with an infinite number of >worlds, why bother about >one? Armeggedon doesn't have the oomph if >it's only one world. Or would >Armeggedon mean all the dimensions would >go bye-bye? I wouldn't run it like this personally, but if you did, it allows for certain cool thoughts, like whether Legion was truly destroyed or just managed to escape. Also allows you to have more Janus/Valefor type fun. >2. Have the celestials be unaware of the dimensions and just battle in >one dimension. I'm kind of nervous about this one - does this mean God >isn't omnipotent? God is aware of all these dimensions and created them all, but just because God knows doesn't mean anyone else does. After all, since Metatron is dead, it's not like he can tell anyone except through Gabriel. And she's not exactly the easiest person to understand. >3. Have multiple versions of each archangel and prince - one per >dimension. Again - makes me nervous. What happens if two Lawrences >meet? >And would non-human worlds have humanoid angels? Could explain why Superiors are loathe to venture onto the corporeal plane unless specifically called. No one's particularly sure what would happen if they came into contact with their alternate, but since everyone has seen how Janus and Valefor (and potentially Jean and Vapula if you're of a mind to be cruel) avoid each other, they assume it could be _very bad_ >Suggestions? Has anyone else played/ran this type of campaign? Are >there any sourcebooks that talk about this? I've already promised my >wife that we would be using this world, so changing the world isn't an >option. Thanks in advance. There are a few web-based options for something like this. Might give you a few ideas. Check the INC, and if nothing else I'm _sure_ that the writers of one of the netbooks will be happy to toot their own horns, given the chance. I've got some things that might be useful once I've gotten them to my new website, and I'll post them on here eventually. Michael _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 11:02:17 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Alternate Realities - --- Bryan Jonker wrote: > I am starting a new campaign, and call upon the > listserv's help. You have asked a hard thing, but I'll try to be of some assistance. > 1. Have the celestial and ethereal areas transcend the > dimensions. This is a good idea -- it actually solves the problem of where the Higher Heavens actually are (God lives in a Klein bottle on the Celestial plane -- once you're in, you can't get out). > Armeggedon doesn't have the oomph if it's only one > world. Or would > Armeggedon mean all the dimensions would go bye-bye? Depends on how much the Celestials know about what effect destroying one dimension would have on the others. Maybe the rest of the multiverse would expand to fill the remaining space, maybe the loss would destabilize the whole thing, maybe nothing would happen at all. For real fun, have different Superiors believe different theories. Thus, you can have (for example) Zadkiel desperately trying to prevent ANY universe from being destroyed for fear that the whole kit-and-kaboodle will go south while Belial has a long-range plan of blowing up carefully chosen universes so that the one where matter and antimatter exist in equal parts (thereby causing constant explosions) gradually becomes the sole reality. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Love is an exploding cigar which we willingy smoke." -- Linda Barry __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Find a job, post your resume. http://careers.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 11:14:57 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Project - Silence This rocks! Consider it stolen. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Love is an exploding cigar which we willingy smoke." -- Linda Barry __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Find a job, post your resume. http://careers.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 15:42:50 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Brainstorming SF Request At 9:42 AM -0500 11/9/01, Earl Wajenberg wrote: [...] >You use a version of time travel in which history is mutable. >In that case, the stability of the "main" history is either an >illusion or some kind of tacit accomodation by both sides, like >the rule on keeping the War secret from humanity at large. What about the notion that history is only stable in the celestial realm? I.e., if you're in Heaven or Hell, you are unaffected by the "Ripple" of a change. If you're on Earth, you get New History dumped into your head. Multiple instantiations, such as Kyrios and Superiors, probably can manage both. This leads to Kyriotates of Lightning, with the Seraph of Lightning attunement, being stationed across the realms, with their sole purpose to inform angels what the current situation is before they descend, or what the old situation was (to the ascending ones, usually). These Kyriotates are probably more scatter-brained than many... >There may be interesting rumors circulating that history "used" to >be very different. Certainly the Ethereals already circulate >such rumors in the canon setting. Maybe the only place that's safe from "historical editing" is the _Marches_. Maybe you have to be within an ethereal Domain... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 15:54:11 -0500 From: "Jeffery Watkins" Subject: Re: IN> Brainstorming SF Request >What about the notion that history is only stable in the celestial >realm? I.e., if you're in Heaven or Hell, you are unaffected by >the "Ripple" of a change. If you're on Earth, you get New History >dumped into your head. > >Multiple instantiations, such as Kyrios and Superiors, probably can >manage both. This leads to Kyriotates of Lightning, with the Seraph of >Lightning attunement, being stationed across the realms, with their >sole purpose to inform angels what the current situation is before they >descend, or what the old situation was (to the ascending ones, usually). >These Kyriotates are probably more scatter-brained than many... > Thank you! The corporeal realm is the only history-morphic realm in my game, but I hadn't even considered the use of the Kyriotates in this way. Its Great! Jeffery _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 16:00:11 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> For Those Who Hate The d666... Snarfed this up from .innomine, on Pyramid; though that some of y'all might be interested: From: "Brian R. Boyko" http://www.geocities.com/boyko3/innominealterum.pdf The file is a 6 page PDF detailing an alternative dice system for In Nomine which, in my opinion, increases the level of competency for humans while retaining a semblance of cinematic results and keeps celestials at a higher power level than humans. Comments are welcome at boyko@bellatlantic.net O:> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 16:11:57 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Alternate Realities At 11:55 AM -0600 11/9/01, Bryan Jonker wrote: > >I am starting a new campaign, and call upon the listserv's help. > >The campaign is set up where there are many alternate dimensions [...] >I want to introduce In Nomine to this campaign. However, how do I >reconcile the "multiple worlds" with "angel/devil structure"? I've thought >of five choices: Here's 6th -- drop IN IOU into it... O:> (See... www.nh.ultranet.com/~emccoy/IOU/myINIOU.html for one way this can work.) >1. Have the celestial and ethereal areas transcend the dimensions. All the >angels and devils (or at least the archangels and princes) know about the >different dimensions, and may swap one world for another. I don't know how >to play this - I mean, with an infinite number of worlds, why bother about >one? Armeggedon doesn't have the oomph if it's only one world. Or would >Armeggedon mean all the dimensions would go bye-bye? Probably the latter. Superiors and the high ranking Servitors might be the only ones aware of this multi-dimension thing. It might explain just _why_ Superiors are so hard to contact! They're multi-tasking all OVER the place! Also, "minor" Superiors who never concern themselves with one dimension might be major ones, a world or two over. You probably want to import a lot of the non-canon Superiors from the In Nomine Collection ( www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles ), so you can drop Superior X into World Y... If you want to keep the ethereals enigmatic, let them travel worlds as well (maybe a lot of them fled Uriel, and got into other places!), possibly in multiple instantiations the way Superiors do. If you want to make the ethereal argument of "God's just one of us on steroids!" even less convincing, confine the ethereals/Marches each to their own dimension. >2. Have the celestials be unaware of the dimensions and just battle in >one dimension. I'm kind of nervous about this one - does this mean God >isn't omnipotent? The ethereals would like this one. O:> >3. Have multiple versions of each archangel and prince - one per >dimension. Again - makes me nervous. What happens if two Lawrences meet? >And would non-human worlds have humanoid angels? Hm. I need to have Maya get her Sliders thing back... I would suggest that Superiors -- if you have multiple versions -- _can't_ transit the dimensions. >Suggestions? Has anyone else played/ran this type of campaign? Are >there any sourcebooks that talk about this? GURPS Time Travel might help, likewise GURPS IOU (for a more light-hearted treatment). - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 15:42:33 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Yes, I am part of the conspiracy... ....to confuse the religious and clueless. (Note: that's a statement of set intersection, not a statement of set equivalence or set union...) Got an e-mail from a self-described "charismatic Catholic" who found my "In Nomine New York" page (http://www.amadan.org/Innomine/NewYork.htm, which I guess needs to be updated now that Marc has lost his Tether there....). She was quite baffled by the fact that I was talking about angels and demons, since she'd seen the rest of my site in which I describe myself as an atheist. Now, really, how hard is it to figure out from reading this page that it's talking about a GAME? - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 16:27:47 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Brainstorming SF Request At 10:47 AM -0800 11/9/01, Michael Walton wrote: >--- Jeffery Watkins wrote: >> Yes! Wait! There is an Angel of Spacecraft? Is there a >> write-up anywhere? > > Not to my knowledge, and certainly not in canon. Seems >like it's fair game; go for it. There's, IIRC, an Ofanite of the Wind who _wants_ a Word like that, in the Liber Servitorum... - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. arcangel is nursing a trout with ARMS! ARMS that reach out and try to pound the keyboard! You say "And teeth. Ow." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 17:00:29 -0500 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: Re: IN> Yes, I am part of the conspiracy... > Now, really, how hard is it to figure out from reading this page that > it's talking about a GAME? New Artifact: Clue by Four When struck by it, the character is hit with a blinding realization of something painfully obvious. Given out freely to most Angelic characters. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 17:01:08 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Yes, I am part of the conspiracy... At 3:42 PM -0600 11/9/01, David Edelstein wrote: >Now, really, how hard is it to figure out from reading this page that >it's talking about a GAME? Now, now, I've gotten email from one nice person who wanted to know how to exorcise demons, and another from one of the three (four? One of them was between incarnations and I forget the total) _real_ Daughters of Lilith, explaining that she was most certainly _not_ a Demon... Fairly polite Lilim, that one. (I explained it was a game and not meant to represent any sort of reality at all. Really.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2436 ********************************