in_nomine-digest Monday, November 12 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2439 In this digest: IN> Re: IN > Kyrios -- dissonance IN> Subject: Re: IN > David & Dissonance Re: IN> Seraphim IN> Sorrow Re: IN> Alternate Realities Re: IN> In Nomine Game Quotes Re: IN> In Nomine Sci Fi- The Jedi Knighthood Re: IN> Sorrow RE: IN> For Those Who Hate The d666... Re: IN> Sorrow IN> Other systems was RE: Hate The d666... Re: IN> Alternate Realities Re: IN> Other systems was RE: Hate The d666... Re: IN> Seraphim Re: IN> Seraphim Re: IN> Alternate Realities Re: IN> Sorrow Re: IN> Alternate Realities Re: IN> Sorrow Re: IN> Alternate Realities Re: IN> Other systems was RE: Hate The d666... Re: IN> Sorrow Re: IN> Alternate Realities Re: IN> Sorrow Re: IN> Project - Silence IN> Subject: Re: IN > David & Dissonance Re: IN> Project - Silence Re: IN> For Those Who Hate The d666... RE: IN> For Those Who Hate The d666... Re: IN> In Nomine Game Quotes Re: IN> Project - Silence ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 05:40:36 -0600 From: "Cthulhu" Subject: IN> Re: IN > Kyrios -- dissonance Kish wrote: >I would say the Kyriotate who pushed someone out a plane and then >possessed them would only get dissonance if the host who did the pushing >had some strange objection to becoming a murderer...but the original >Kyriotate, the one who said "I possessed you and jumped," is definitely >dissonant. Well, the host wouldn't *remember* pushing the guy out of the plane, so there isn't a problem there. It'd only count as leaving him in a worse state then he was found in if he was cought by mortal authorities, or someone saw him. Even then, from a Destiny/Fate pov, he still isn't a murderer. But the second case stands firm. Hell, it *towers*. Cthulhu _____________________________________________ Free email with personality! Over 200 domains! http://www.MyOwnEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 05:41:03 -0600 From: "Cthulhu" Subject: IN> Subject: Re: IN > David & Dissonance Jo wrote: >Please tell me it has a little old lady vessel? Everyone knows they are >as tough as bootleather, and the mental image of her laying into a demon >with her handbag is ... sweet ;) The nemesis to this is, of course, a Hell's Granny. Cthulhu _____________________________________________ Free email with personality! Over 200 domains! http://www.MyOwnEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 12:40:45 +0000 From: "Fallen Seraph" Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim The APG (faulty though it maybe) does have good things to say on heavenly duties. > > Seraphim, as mentioned: truth-detectors in a place where the > > native language precludes lying. (as stated in the previous post) can detect Subjective truths. useful for finding out if someone has been Misled (without being lied to.) of has simply misunderstood something (see the adventure seed in H&H) > > Cherubim: designed to track and protect their charges, though native > > to a place where danger is cosmologically rare. Records keepers, janitors, honor guards > > Kyriotates: able to possess corporeal creatures, but native to a > > plane > > where corporeal beings cannot come. Divine Multiplicity: A kyriotate in heaven can be in (forces) places at once. "conference call, Celectial style" > > Mercurians: taking dissonance from harming humans, presumably even > > throughout the billions of years before humans appeared. Their Dissonance is not for harming humans , but for becoming violent. Their older use-name (before Friends of man) was intercessionists. their resonance for relationships and social politics leads to roles as negotiators, go-betweens, councilors and confidantes. - -FallenSeraph When the Heavenly Disco plays, You'll see God move in Mysterious Ways... http://eternalcity.freeservers.com ICQ: 110193631 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 21:52:32 +0800 From: " Cameron McCurry" Subject: IN> Sorrow Just a little something I wanted to get out... ___________________________________ Please sit down. This story may take a while but I will try not to bore you with the trivial details. I was one of the first Mercurians to be created by Novalis. It is truly difficult to describe how Heaven was back in those days. It was even more of a paradise than it is now; there was no War and no fighting over the souls of humans. And there was one angel who I loved above all others. She was a Seraph, and we were devoted to each other in a manner that few angels understand. Every free moment we had was spent with each other. With the peace of Heaven and the joy of serving God, it was unthinkable that discontent could fester. Then came the Rebellion. I know you have read about it and heard stories of it. I have little to say that would be new to you, little one, except my point of view. As a Servitor of Novalis, I could not bring myself to take up arms against another angel. I could not even bring myself to believe that it was angels who were destroying the Eternal City. How could we wage war against each other? My shock and horror didn't stop me from doing what I had to do, however. I put myself in harm's way time and again to get the wounded away from the battle, heal those I could and comfort those I could not. It was an Elohite of Michael's who gave me this spear. She had been torn open and her life was fading fast. Just as I was trying to ease her pain, I was pulled away by a pair of fangs in my neck. As I watched in horror, a pack of demons fell upon the Power and finished the job. I still hear the death scream once in a while. I pulled myself free and found myself facing ...her. My beautiful Seraph, my love in this world. Her features had become cruel and she and her allies circled around me like wolves around a wounded animal. As they prepared to kill me, she gave me one chance to live. She pleaded for me to join her and strike back against Heaven. She told me of the power that we could have if we were strong enough to throw away our shackles. I heard her words and felt sorrow at the loss of my love. My voice had left me and I could only shake my head in answer to what she offered. And then I heard a new sound in the Symphony. It whispered to me and gave me strength. In a few breaths, I was cleansed of my sorrow and filled with rage for the first time in my life. I could feel my part in the Symphony change as I embraced the power that filled me. As my form became shadowy and my wings turned black, I swore binding Oaths without hesitation. And with my spear in my hand, I fell upon the demons. I remember little else of that day. I only knew that I had waded into the thick of the battle and attacked without mercy and that was told to me by others who witnessed my charge. And I remember watching the demons fall from the edge of Heaven until my tears had blurred my vision. With a numb heart, I returned to the Glade to heal my wounds and to take comfort in the company of my fellow Servitors of Flowers. If you remember nothing else of this conversation, little one, at least remember this. There will come a time when you have no choice but to use violence. And when you use violence, there may be a high price to pay that you will have to live with forever. The Reliever sat on that spot in the Glade long after the old Malakite had left. She was flattered that such an old angel would acknowledge her and teach her something. And it was all because of one innocent question. She only wanted to know why he wore a golden white Seraph feather around his neck... - -- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 06:21:23 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Alternate Realities - --- Manny Nepomuceno wrote: > I was rereading the LR the other day and I noticed the > Songs of > Location. Perhaps a variant of the Songs could be used > to bridge the universes? You really shouldn't say things like that where I can hear them... The Songs of Dimensions Corporeal: A body that is foreign to the universe that it is in generates a constant 1-point Disturbance in the Symphony. The Corporeal Song of Reality fixes this by adjusting the subject's corporeal form (which, for Celestials, only applies to the _current_ Vessel) so that it conforms to the physical laws of whatever universe it is in. This can create changes as drastic as converting the body's entire mass into antimatter so that it can survive in a contraterrene universe without a constant Song of Shields. The effects last for a number of days equal to the CD. Kyriotates and Shedim have no need of this Song. Ethereal: This Song is the ultimate in interdimensional navigation. Successful use confers a kind of "dimensional radar" which tells the player where she is in relation to her home dimension. She will also recognize whether or not she has entered a dimension that she has visited before. While this Song is active, it allows the player to scan across dimensional barriers using the Celestial Song of Sight. This sense lasts for a number of minutes equal to the CD plus the player's Ethereal Forces. Celestial: Without this Song, it is impossible to cross dimensional boundaries. Playing it allows the singer to send himself or someone else into an alternate universe. The player may only cross into a dimension that he has been to before or has seen by means of the Ethereal Song of Dimensions. Upon entering the new dimension, the subject generates a Disturbance of (total Forces minus the CD; minimum of 1). Essence Requirement: (subject's Corporeal Forces) for Corporeal; 1 for Ethereal; (subject's total Forces) for Celestial Degree of Disturbance: CD (1 for Ethereal) Bonus: Kyriotates, Destiny, Fate ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Love is an exploding cigar which we willingy smoke." -- Linda Barry __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Find a job, post your resume. http://careers.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 10:21:33 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Game Quotes Brian R. Boyko wrote: > Ofanim of Jean's after putting on evil shoes in hell, and finding > that not only are they not coming off his feet but that they're also > /arguing/ with each other - the shoes that is: Ofanim got feet?? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 10:23:23 -0500 From: "Jeffery Watkins" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Sci Fi- The Jedi Knighthood blink...blink...WoW! I didn't think I could ever find a way to put a Star Wars genre into the multiveral game I was running, but THIS would work! Thank you, good sir! A great mixing, seemless transition, that is very gam-able. [and the Essence flowed freely with gratitude] Jeffery _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 10:49:58 EST From: StoyboI@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Sorrow WOW!! I loved it. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 14:05:29 -0500 (EST) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: RE: IN> For Those Who Hate The d666... On Mon, 12 Nov 2001, Brian R. Boyko wrote: > If you look hard enough, of course, there's going to be similarities in all > systems - I personally can't think of one that doesn't use one form of > "base score + modification for skills". Fudge. :) - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! A crash reduces Your expensive computer To a simple stone. -- Sony Vaio-PC Haiku ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 14:10:26 -0500 (EST) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> Sorrow That was really beautiful. - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! "Human germ!" -- Shrapnel (Decepticon), _Transformers: The Movie_ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 16:55:24 +0000 From: "cassandra benner" Subject: IN> Other systems was RE: Hate The d666... > > If you look hard enough, of course, there's going to be similarities in >all > > systems - I personally can't think of one that doesn't use one form of > > "base score + modification for skills". >Fudge. Rev. Pee Kitty Also Amber, and whfrp (warhammer fantasy roleplay system), and cthulhu (streight percentile chance), AD&D (-2E-, base score or less on d20), heavy gear, conspiricy X (a beautiful dice system in that one..) All these plus a slew of others, Those are just the ones from the top of my head. Toodles Cas *where you come from is gone, where you're going was never there, and where you are aint no good unless you can get away from it* http://groups.yahoo.com/group/inmundi http://groups.yahoo.com/group/semperin http://groups.yahoo.com/group/inveritas http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Infabula http://communities.msn.co.uk/ADD http://www.drunkendwarfinn.co.uk http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ADandD_Stuff6 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 13:23:10 -0500 From: "Jeffery Watkins" Subject: Re: IN> Alternate Realities There is one way of crossing to an alternate universe. Way, Way, Way >out in the Far, Far, Far Marches, there is an overlap to the next reality. >It is theoretically possible that a Celestial could step across that >boundary and be in another reality. Of course, it is guarded. I love this concept. While I have a different take on this matter ,this concept is very intergratable. Thank you! Jeffery _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 10:34:03 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Other systems was RE: Hate The d666... > If you look hard enough, of course, there's going to > be similarities in all > systems - I personally can't think of one that > doesn't use one form of > "base score + modification for skills". Mind's Eye Theatre (WW's LARP rules), wherein level of skill has no bearing whatsoever on probability of success. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Love is an exploding cigar which we willingy smoke." -- Linda Barry __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Find a job, post your resume. http://careers.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 13:41:03 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim At 12:40 PM +0000 11/12/01, Fallen Seraph wrote: >The APG (faulty though it maybe) does have good things to say on heavenly >duties. [...] >> > Kyriotates: able to possess corporeal creatures, but native to a >> > plane >> > where corporeal beings cannot come. > >Divine Multiplicity: A kyriotate in heaven can be in (forces) places at >once. "conference call, Celectial style" Eh? Page reference? I thought this _didn't_ get put in, trumped by the "one celestial form at a time" rule in the main book? >> > Mercurians: taking dissonance from harming humans, presumably even >> > throughout the billions of years before humans appeared. > >Their Dissonance is not for harming humans , but for becoming violent. Their dissonance is for harming humans; violence is a poetic way of putting it. Presumably, of course, violence towards other angels is going to be nasty as well. (If their dissonance were for violence, they would be souped-up Servitors of Flowers, one and all; this is not desireable.) Is that in the APG wrong? I need to send some errata if so. - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. arcangel is nursing a trout with ARMS! ARMS that reach out and try to pound the keyboard! You say "And teeth. Ow." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 18:53:10 +0000 From: "Fallen Seraph" Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim >>>Kyriotates >Eh? Page reference? I thought this _didn't_ get put in, trumped by the >"one celestial form at a time" rule in the main book? I think its a bit of both. I'm certain that it mentions Divine Multiplicity in heaven in the text, but i'm not sure if it goes any further. I havent got my books with me, and am running off bat. > >> > Mercurians: taking dissonance from harming humans, presumably even > >> > throughout the billions of years before humans appeared. > > > >Their Dissonance is not for harming humans , but for becoming violent. > >Their dissonance is for harming humans; violence is a poetic way of >putting it. Presumably, of course, violence towards other angels is going >to be nasty as well. Ok. you got me :) I negelcted to mention the Violent to demons thing, but that _really_ doesnt count in heaven. and anyway, the dissonce is irrelevant to their pre-humanity roles anyhow. Its their resonance I intended to highlight. looks like i've confused everyone again :P ah well. at least it's a Rite yummy. essence. When the Heavenly Disco plays, You'll see God move in Mysterious Ways... http://eternalcity.freeservers.com ICQ: 110193631 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 14:44:49 -0500 (EST) From: Ryan M Roth Subject: Re: IN> Alternate Realities On Sun, 11 Nov 2001, Manny Nepomuceno wrote: > At 11:56 AM 11/10/01 -0500, you wrote: > >There were a few more details to the ideas we were kicking around: > > > >1) None of the Superiors were aware of the multiplicity of the planes, > >save only Yves. Yves knows, but doesn't tell -- one of the reasons he > >seems so obtuse at times is because he is simultaneously present on all of > >them, and so says what he thinks is a direct answer to questions asked of > >him, but it's an answer coming from an combination of infinite > >perspectives. There is in fact, only one Yves, as there is only one God. > > Works for me, and if you're working from canon, I suggest a single Kronos > as well. Actually, I prefer multiple Kronoses. I see Kronos as being a incredibly bitter being, full of self-hatred that drives him to take the entire Symphony down to his level. Given this, imagine how galling it would be to him to discover that all his effort to drag down the Symphony to its Fate is essentially irrelevant, because their are an Infinity of Symphonies out there, many with version of himself that managed to avoid his own Fate, which he always thought of as inevitable. > > >2) There are multiple Lucifers. :) > > Ditto. *ponders* I wonder what would happen if an Archangel of Light > somewhere came into contact with a First Balseraph? Depends on why the Archangel avoided falling, and why the Balseraph did. If the Archangel avoided it simply because of timing (ie, the rebellion didn't happen, yet, anyway), then the Balserpah migh be able to corrupt himself. If the Archangel steped close to the brink and pulled back and was repentant, he will be armored against any corruptive influence the Balseraph might try. > > Do you mean just one Uriel, or _all_ the Uriels? That could also have > interesting effects. The Archangel of Purity, slowly being driven mad by > constantly being aware that he exists in many different incarnations. I'd > imagine that the only Choir it wouldn't drive mad would be the Kyriotates. > All of them that were in the same type of position he was. For example, on one world, it was Gabriel who was the Archangel Of Purity, so Gabriel was the one recalled. Uriel, Archangel of Trade on that world, remains there, oblivious the the multiplicity of the Symphonies. As an Archangel, Uriel has access to the Kyriotate resonance, so he'd have the typical Superior multipresence to help him out. Uriel had to be given this job, you see. If any Word-bound of Purity in any world became aware of the multiple worlds, they might be driven to Purify _all_ of them. Second crusade, anyone? As it is, Uriel's mission was redefined -- he protects the purity of the world boundaries, keeping the worlds seperate as God intended. What _will_ drive him mad is if hundreds of Celestials start jumping worlds and interfering with each other's business... Just one more thought -- another way of running this is to only have 2 worlds initially, saying that the others are too distant to intersect. Let the players get a taste of alternate versions of things before hitting them over the head with Eternity. Tattered would be a good choice for the alternate world. Ryan Roth ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 15:00:03 -0500 From: "Jeffery Watkins" Subject: Re: IN> Sorrow That was a very sweet story (okay, I'm the sentimental type!). Thank you for writing it and posting it. Jeffery _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 15:05:15 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Alternate Realities Ryan M Roth wrote: > Given this, imagine how galling it would be to him to discover that > all his effort to drag down the Symphony to its Fate is essentially > irrelevant, because their are an Infinity of Symphonies out there, > many with version of himself that managed to avoid his own Fate, > which he always thought of as inevitable. This brings up a dramatic (not to say philosophical) problem with alternate timelines. Larry Niven once discussed it in an essay and wove it into a short story called "All the Myriad Ways." If alternate histories exist in such a way that ALL possible paths are taken somewhere, then you have a form of determinism. No choice made by any being anywhere really affects the world, because the choice is doomed to be made all possible ways. Yes, you made life better HERE, but you made it worse THERE. So, if one wants to play with alternate histories, I strongly recommend that there be only a finite number of them (though the number may be very large) and the alteration points NOT be each and every possible choice by any being anywhere. Let them be caused by great metaphysical catastrophes or meddling time-travelers, instead. Jeffry's system of "Echoes" allows easily for this, especially since the Echoes aren't really alternate histories, but Ethereal mock-ups of same, and their inhabitants are Ethereal spirits, or so I gather. By the way Jeffry, I don't know exactly how you're running the Echoes, but there are some fun possibilities. An Ethereal spirit in the Echoes may be in the position of an actor in a play; it acquired a vessel and something like a celestial's Role, but it can keep the vessel only by keeping up the Role, that is, by doing a reasonably good job of keeping up the appearances and pretending to be the alternate-reality person it looks like. One can then imagine competition for choice roles, more powerful "director" Ethereals with the ability or authority to pass roles out, "back-stage" plotting and gossip out in the Marches, etc. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 20:05:52 +0000 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> Sorrow >That was a very sweet story (okay, I'm the sentimental type!). Thank you >for >writing it and posting it. > >Jeffery > What he said. I'm sentimental too. Janet Anderson * * * * And they shall rebuild the old ruins, They shall raise up the former desolations, And they shall repair the ruined cities ... Isaiah 61:4 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 15:07:38 -0500 From: "Jeffery Watkins" Subject: Re: IN> Alternate Realities Thank you! This is perfect for my game. These could have even be discoverd by the Archangel I came up with AA of Infitity who is in charge of the alternates! [Let the Essence flow begin!] Jeffery _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 21:09:24 +0100 From: "Donato Ranzato" Subject: Re: IN> Other systems was RE: Hate The d666... From: "cassandra benner" > Also Amber, and whfrp (warhammer fantasy roleplay system), and cthulhu > (streight percentile chance), AD&D (-2E-, base score or less on d20), heavy > gear, conspiricy X (a beautiful dice system in that one..) I play In Nomine using the Chaosium percentile system and it works fine. Of course it helps when you have 15 years of experience in gamesmastering Call of Cthulhu........ Cheerio, Donato ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 21:13:56 +0100 From: "Donato Ranzato" Subject: Re: IN> Sorrow The story is great! I have forwarded it to the Malakite player in my group...... I hope you will write more stories in the near future..... Cheerio, Donato ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 15:29:55 -0500 From: "Jeffery Watkins" Subject: Re: IN> Alternate Realities Wow Earl, I like how you interpreted the Echoes. I had more of a shadow or reflection of the Symphony, with Essence at a 1:10 ration. That is 1 Essence from the primeline or Symphony would be equal 10 of an Echo. The Ethereals could feed, but it would take more worshipers than on the primeline. The fact of them taking roles like humans or alternate versions of people on prime never occured to me. I must say, I like it. In a way, maintaining a roll could be a way of generating prime Essence instead of attempting to feed off of the Shadowy Essence of the Echoes. The better the role is maintained the more Essence. Off and rambling, thinking...plotting... Thanks! Jeffery _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 16:13:47 -0500 From: Amanda Kilgore Subject: Re: IN> Sorrow You kidding? He's got pages full. Not as much as Moe, to be sure, but hey. http://home.earthlink.net/~cmccurry/innomine.html (Yes, it's also a shameless plug since our collaboration epic is there too. Needs a link to my pages though *grin*) Donato Ranzato wrote: > The story is great! > > I have forwarded it to the Malakite player in my group...... > > I hope you will write more stories in the near future..... > > Cheerio, > Donato ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 17:38:13 -0500 From: "Jason F. McBrayer" Subject: Re: IN> Project - Silence On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 05:36:02PM +0000, Michael Cleveland wrote: [the coolest thing I've ever read on this list] That's a brilliant idea. Is it (as it seems to be) Delta Green inspired? Even if not, you could pull in a lot of stuff from DG to use as additional background -- certainly the Army of the Third Eye, the Fate, and Phenomen-X. This makes me want to get a gaming group together just to run this. Maybe I'll even succeed this time. None of my prospective victims know anything about In Nomine, so that's safe. Now, the real question is the rule system to use -- Fudge to keep them in the dark about the nature of the Game, or Call of Cthulhu to actively mislead them. - -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Jason F. McBrayer jmcbray@carcosa.net | | The scalloped tatters of the King in Yellow must hide Yhtill | | forever. R.W. Chambers _The King in Yellow_ | ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 05:41:32 -0600 From: "Cthulhu" Subject: IN> Subject: Re: IN > David & Dissonance toadpooka@juno.com wrote: >Remember: angels fall because of dissonance, and you don't get >dissonance by being mean, you get it by defying the nature of your Choir >and Superior. Angels do all sorts of awful things, and David's servitors >are some of Heaven's nastiest. This does of course vary depending on the Brightness of your game. Actually, one point which occurred to me about all this, but which I haven't seen mentioned, is that Stone also stands for group solidarity. In light of this (and here I'm being Bright), Davidians would come down very hard on the kind of person who'd beat up and old lady - they obviously do *not* have a Correct Social Attitude. I'd almost be tempted to let an attack on someone defenceless (in a case like this) be enough to satisfy Stone's dissonance condition. Even if it wasn't, we've had plenty of alternate methods for stopping the attack posted here. I just can't see a servitor of Stone simply saying "she's weak - she deserves it" outside of the Darkest settings. Cthulhu, for once not lurking in the darkness, and finding it quite odd. _____________________________________________ Free email with personality! Over 200 domains! http://www.MyOwnEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 17:55:11 -0500 From: "Jason F. McBrayer" Subject: Re: IN> Project - Silence On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 08:06:29PM -0800, Maurice Lane wrote: > 1) Shedite/Kyriotate (good way to get interrogation > suspects). True, but if the group is cell-organized, then you can't get that much from capturing any given agent, even if you can trawl through their memories (Kyriotate of Destiny, Shedim). > 2) Seraph of Flowers. Twenty sounds about right: even > 6 Force Soldiers usually have sucky Wills. True (and Seraph of Flowers is my favorite attuenment), but Novalis probably has better things for her servitors to do than pull guard duty at tethers of War and the Sword. > 4) Malakanaries. Can you run away faster than I can > pop out Upstairs and summon the Rapid Response Team? That's why it's important to blow the Tether locus before killing any of the `aliens'. > 5) Anybody with a spare vessel and a Body Bag. Hidden > machine gun nest optional. True. However, that trick only works once, too. > 6b) Marc. Yeah, tell me that he can't cut off their > funding. Semtex doesn't grow on trees, you know. If we presume that Superiors are nigh-omnipotent within the confines of their Words, then yes. On the other hand, what if Project: Silence is an illegal conspiracy within the government, a la Delta Green? All of DG's funding is, in effect, stolen from other agencies and institutions (those from which DG agents have been recruited). > 6c) Hell, *any* Superior appearance and these guys are > on the scrap pile of history. True, but then the War is out in the open. > 7) Oh, yeah ... these guys are mortal, right? Once > one of them dies after meeting their Fate _or_ Destiny... And the problem here is? In the case of an agent lower on the totem pole (call him Agent Quincy), you can't get any information back from him that you couldn't get through KoD or Shedite posession. And if Heaven were to send him back as a Saint...well, we already know the aliens can appear as human. Why can't they pretend to be Quincy? Because he knows things only Quincy would have known? Well, we already know the aliens can read minds. And if Agent Alphonse (some agent at the top of the information pyramid) dies after meeting his Fate, he's bound to get himself soul-killed. It might be harder if he meets his Destiny -- can you soul-kill yourself? And in a proper cell organization, I think even Alphonse won't have enough information to really take down the organization. Now, what this group really needs are some devices for foiling resonances. If you're playing with the optional rule that disturbance makes it harder to use resonances, then a device that creates a huge amount of disturbance (or a constant low-level disturbance) would be just the thing. This would also make a great plot hook if you want to go the other way with this and have Celestial PCs. - -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Jason F. McBrayer jmcbray@carcosa.net | | The scalloped tatters of the King in Yellow must hide Yhtill | | forever. R.W. Chambers _The King in Yellow_ | ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 18:06:35 -0500 From: "Jason F. McBrayer" Subject: Re: IN> For Those Who Hate The d666... On Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 02:05:29PM -0500, Rev. Pee Kitty wrote: > > > On Mon, 12 Nov 2001, Brian R. Boyko wrote: > > > If you look hard enough, of course, there's going to be similarities in all > > systems - I personally can't think of one that doesn't use one form of > > "base score + modification for skills". > > Fudge. :) Or Chaosium's BRP (Call of Cthulhu, Runequest, Ringworld, etc), for that matter. - -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Jason F. McBrayer jmcbray@carcosa.net | | The scalloped tatters of the King in Yellow must hide Yhtill | | forever. R.W. Chambers _The King in Yellow_ | ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 20:07:48 -0500 From: "Brian R. Boyko" Subject: RE: IN> For Those Who Hate The d666... At 07:11 AM 11/12/01 +0000, you wrote: >>>> > Snarfed this up from .innomine, on Pyramid; though that some of >>>> > y'all might be interested: >>>> > From: "Brian R. Boyko" >>>> > http://www.geocities.com/boyko3/innominealterum.pdf >>>> >>>>This is a conversion of In Nomine to Storyteller, without target numbers so >>>>you can use six-sided dice and with a couple of twists added. >>> >>>Well, you must be working on inside information, because it's never stated >>>that it's a conversation of In Nomine to Storyteller (I'll assume that you >>>mean WoD). Also, frankly, it couldn't be much of a conversion, seeing as >>>Storyteller uses d10 and not d6 . . . >>> >>>While I will agree that it definitely feels heavily influenced by the WoD >>>Storyteller system, I disagree that it's a conversion. >> >>To be honest, I was probably more influenced by the Palladium system than >>Storyteller, especially in the combat mechanics. > > > >>>I don't really see much duplication going on here, frankly. While the >>>skill list definitely appears to be a lift, the dice system isn't. >> >>Yeah, about that - I lifted skills pretty much from everywhere. Where >>there was an In Nomine skill, I tried to use that terminology, where there >>wasn't, I tried to use broad terminology. I took skills from In Nomine >>first, then looked through other books - mostly GURPS but also D&D and, >>yes, Storyteller, to get a list I felt was complete. > >My only beef with the skill selection was leaving out Artistry - since in >In Nomine that skill can be used to by Celestials leave messages in works >of art, like street wall art, or in doodles passed in class. Where is that from? >/Why/ is Savoir-Faire paired with Agility, btw? Either I couldn't figure out what to pair it with, or it's a typo. Tie it to whatever you see fit. Brian. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 20:10:02 -0500 From: "Brian R. Boyko" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Game Quotes At 10:21 AM 11/12/01 -0500, you wrote: >Brian R. Boyko wrote: > > > Ofanim of Jean's after putting on evil shoes in hell, and finding > > that not only are they not coming off his feet but that they're also > > /arguing/ with each other - the shoes that is: > >Ofanim got feet?? Well, no. Eli had to improvise some for him on the undercover mission. >Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 22:00:10 -0500 From: Mike Bruner Subject: Re: IN> Project - Silence > > 1) Shedite/Kyriotate (good way to get interrogation > > suspects). > >True, but if the group is cell-organized, then you can't get that much >from capturing any given agent, even if you can trawl through their >memories (Kyriotate of Destiny, Shedim). But send a Mercurian out with the info you get, and I imagine they can track back up the chain of cells eventually by examing relationships. The Mercurian doesn't even have to approach the subject too closely to resonate them IIRC, so you could casually shadow cell members long enough to resonate their contacts out of 'em. > > 2) Seraph of Flowers. Twenty sounds about right: even > > 6 Force Soldiers usually have sucky Wills. > >True (and Seraph of Flowers is my favorite attuenment), but Novalis >probably has better things for her servitors to do than pull guard >duty at tethers of War and the Sword. And these guys are never going to go after the "flower-loving aliens"? > > 4) Malakanaries. Can you run away faster than I can > > pop out Upstairs and summon the Rapid Response Team? > >That's why it's important to blow the Tether locus before killing any >of the `aliens'. A substantial number of Tethers are located in places which are NOT good to drop a bomb into; the source of Tethers is some sort of fame among humans, after all. You start blowing up monuments and such, the government will not be amused by the "fighting space aliens" excuse... > > 5) Anybody with a spare vessel and a Body Bag. Hidden > > machine gun nest optional. > >True. However, that trick only works once, too. > > > 6b) Marc. Yeah, tell me that he can't cut off their > > funding. Semtex doesn't grow on trees, you know. > >If we presume that Superiors are nigh-omnipotent within the confines >of their Words, then yes. On the other hand, what if Project: Silence >is an illegal conspiracy within the government, a la Delta Green? All >of DG's funding is, in effect, stolen from other agencies and >institutions (those from which DG agents have been recruited). Then Marc simply brings the siphoning to the attention of those other agencies and institutions, who again are not likely to be amused by the "fighting space aliens" excuses. > > 6c) Hell, *any* Superior appearance and these guys are > > on the scrap pile of history. > >True, but then the War is out in the open. What exactly are a bunch of corpses gonna tell the rest of Project Silence about the War? Assuming the Superior in question even leaves that much evidence behind, as opposed to just a sudden scream and then ominous silence over a com line... > > 7) Oh, yeah ... these guys are mortal, right? Once > > one of them dies after meeting their Fate _or_ Destiny... > >And the problem here is? > >In the case of an agent lower on the totem pole (call him Agent >Quincy), you can't get any information back from him that you couldn't >get through KoD or Shedite posession. And if Heaven were to send him >back as a Saint...well, we already know the aliens can appear as human. Why >can't they pretend to be Quincy? Because he knows things only Quincy >would have known? Well, we already know the aliens can read minds. But if you go around figuring every agent might actually be a hideous space alien in disguse, you're kind of screwed for personnel. >And if Agent Alphonse (some agent at the top of the information >pyramid) dies after meeting his Fate, he's bound to get himself >soul-killed. It might be harder if he meets his Destiny -- can you >soul-kill yourself? And in a proper cell organization, I think even >Alphonse won't have enough information to really take down the >organization. Why the heck would he soul-kill himself? If he's in Hell, I imagine it would be damn difficult to arrange; I'm sure Hell has no interest in letting damned souls escape that easy (and if he's linked to attacks on Infernal forces, someone WILL be waiting at the gate with a few questions). And if he makes Heaven, why would he WANT to soul-kill himself? If you seriously think everybody in the group who dies will honestly believe Paradise is really just an illusion perpetrated by space aliens, then the whole thing is run by far too many crazies than can legitimately be expected to appear in government service. >Now, what this group really needs are some devices for foiling >resonances. If you're playing with the optional rule that disturbance >makes it harder to use resonances, then a device that creates a huge >amount of disturbance (or a constant low-level disturbance) would be >just the thing. This would also make a great plot hook if you want to >go the other way with this and have Celestial PCs. The only problem is they then become a continual "Here We Are!" beacon to all celestials, which kind of screws 'em for sneak attacks (if the angel in the example had sensed a constant disturbance from the bums, I *doubt* she would have been too sympathetic :)). And some sort of Resonance screwing device from folks that don't even know what the heck a Resonance *IS* seems implausible (not to mention game-imbalancing if the celestials get a hold of it). The problem is, while I love the idea of a anti-celestial secret government effort, I can't see HOW the thing would last long. I can believe Heaven and Hell can't manipulate everything due to resource limits and the actions of the other side, but in the case of someone outright attacking them, I can't see them limiting the resources enough to let Silence get away, and this is one thing which might spark one of those back-alley collusions between Heaven and Hell to silence the Silence. And while a government agency might have the resources to handle staging attacks, there are supposed to be checks and balances to prevent subsections of the government from being able to do things like wage private wars. MAYBE they could keep it secret from the usual people, but if Heaven or Hell take the obvious tack of alerting the rest of the government to the proceedings, you wind up with the aforementioned "explaining you're making war on space aliens" awkward scene. And a private organization will have similar problems explaining stockpiling weapons to the ATF. Bottom line, if it were that easy to take on Tethers and Celestial forces, the War would already be won by somebody. To successfully take on Heaven and Hell takes knowledge and resources; under the current described situation, they lack too much knowledge and their resources are highly vulnerable. About the only way I can see Project Silence working is if one of three things is true. First, that it's brand new. Obviously in the beginning Heaven and/or Hell will not suspect mere humans of being behind Tether attacks, so it'll be up to the PCs to find out the real story. Second, that they do have some sort of knowledge of celestials behind them; Ethereals, Outcasts and/or Renegades are good choices to be at or near the head of this. That would give Project Silence a much better chance of success; if the source is also aware of the actual celestial influence in the appropriate government, they could direct clearance efforts enough to protect Silence's resources for a while at least. Finally, it's possible Heaven and Hell have decided to try to manipulate Silence as opposed to destroy it (i.e. point it at the other side). In which case there will be much covert manipulating to "reveal alien targets" and "expose the infiltrators" from the other side; much merriment for PCs will undoubtably ensue. - -- Mike Bruner-- mbruner18@home.com I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me at once. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2439 ********************************