in_nomine-digest Tuesday, November 20 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2453 In this digest: Re: IN> Re: Blessed Advantage Re: IN> Redneck Demons Re: IN> Re: Angels and Religion Re: IN> Random thought IN> Prj. Silence - Captive Vignette Pt 4 (end) Re: IN> Newbie IN> Re: IN: Newbie Re: IN> Re: IN: Newbie Re: IN> Re: IN: Newbie Re: IN> Re: Something Different Re: IN> Prj. Silence - Captive Vignette Pt 4 (end) Re: IN> Prj. Silence - Captive Vignette Pt 4 (end) Re: IN> Prj. Silence - Captive Vignette Part 3 IN> Abiressia Part III Re: IN> Leilani pt 1 IN> Re: Newbie Re: IN> Re: Angels and Religion Re: IN> Leilani pt 1 Re: IN> Re: Angels and Religion Re: IN> Lilim Princess? Re: IN> Re: Something Different Re: IN> Newbie Re: IN> Newbie IN> Re: Random Thought IN> Re: Blessed Advantage IN> Where? IN> Ooh, ooh! Another Question ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 05:52:47 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Re: Blessed Advantage - --- james walker wrote: > If you actually want to help people, you ask the question > - where are my > talents most useful? For someone with Blessed, the > obvious options are law, > politics and audit. As such, even those who are motivated > by noble desires will be funneled into those careers. This reeks of personal bias. Mother Theresa was neither a lawyer nor a politician. Care to argue how much good she did? No need to stop there; how about Martin Luther King (ordained minister), Bob Dylan (musician and peace activist) or Alvin Ailey (who, by founding the Dance Theatre of Harlem, did more to reduce crime in the inner city than city government ever could)? Granted, these people got involved in political issues, but they most definitely were not politicians. As I said before, the Blessed Advantage is useful for _leaders_, but leadership doesn't necessarily mean a career in politics. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Love is an exploding cigar which we willingy smoke." -- Linda Barry __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 05:40:01 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Redneck Demons RIBLMHO! }888> ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Love is an exploding cigar which we willingy smoke." -- Linda Barry __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 05:42:02 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Re: Angels and Religion - --- james walker wrote: > More worryingly, in one of Paul's Letters, it says that a > demon/ the > demonically possessed cannot say "Christ is Lord"; a > demon doing so and > pointing out the relevant passage in the Bible is going > to have a a massive > advantage when dealing with any Christian. No. Only with those who actually know the Bible -- which most do not, despite protestations to the contrary. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Love is an exploding cigar which we willingy smoke." -- Linda Barry __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 05:59:23 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Random thought - --- Christopher Hughes wrote: > What would the In Nomine universe be like if Lucifer had > been of a different Choir? Chris, just asking the question makes you worthy of the Daily Essence award. > What if, instead of the First > Balseraph, he was the First Habbalite The War would probably be less of a cold war and more of a hot one -- after all, he would still think of himself as an angel and would consider the un-Fallen to be deceived or heretical. In this universe, Baal might be the Archangel of the Jihad (because a Habbalite Lucifer wouldn't call them Demon Princes). > the First Shedite The War would focus more on corrupting Humans, of course. > the First Pachadite This Lucifer would know what scares everyone, including the other Superiors. His ultimate goal would be to find out what scares _God_. > the First whatever-the-Hell-Fallen-Grigori-are-Called Skulker. For this, I defer to the people who own GURPS IN. > the First Malakite (I know they can't Fall, > that's the point)? He'd still be the Archangel of Light and would probably be the commander of Heaven's armies. In this universe, maybe it's Michael or Dominic who became the First Balseraph. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Love is an exploding cigar which we willingy smoke." -- Linda Barry __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 14:28:10 From: "Michael Cleveland" Subject: IN> Prj. Silence - Captive Vignette Pt 4 (end) Colonel Parks crept through the trees that towered all around him - he'd been hiding here for the past four days, and he wasn't about to get caught by another one of those _things_ that had tried to debrief him yesterday. He'd seen a couple of them in action back on Earth, and knew that those creatures - it'd called itself a 'Kyriotate' - were some of the absolute masters of mental domination. He wasn't about to get himself in a position to be mind-controlled so that he would give up the secrets of his fellow Silencers. 'Of course, unless I can figure out a way out of this dimension, that's going to be almost inevitable unless I kill myself now.' he thought to himself. He took a little bit of comfort from the sword that he had in his hands now. While creeping through the forest, he'd encountered two aliens that looked disturbingly like classic demons to him laying down with pillows and a blanket. While he had to admit that it was slightly comforting to know that it looked like the aliens could actually be distracted by pleasures of the flesh, he shuddered at the thought of the black winged and haloed figures noticing him. If the aliens reacted even remotely similar to being 'walked in on', that was one thing he couldn't afford. But they did have weapons, and they weren't using them at the moment, so he's taken the opportunity when he'd seen it. He ducked quickly behind some bushes as he saw one of the large serpents flying by overhead. He waited for a moment until it was out of sight before moving, but his hands were still shaking for a few moments afterwards. Coming into a clearing with a stream running through it, he bent down to get a few gulps of water before running back into the protective cover of the trees. 'This is insane - but I have to keep running. If there's a way in, there's got to be a way out.' He stopped to rest by a tree, more to clear his head than anything else. He shook his head in frustration, then he stood up, and plunged his sword into the ground in front of him. Bowing his head, he crossed himself before kneeling. "God, I don't know if you can even hear me in this place, but if you can, I'm sorry for everything I ever did wrong. I haven't gone to confession ever since I joined the project, but I figure you've watched anyway." He paused for a moment to wipe the tears that were starting to come out on his sleeve. "Look, I've never begged anyone for anything, but I just want to go home. If you can help me get through this..." He stopped as he felt a warmth wash over him, and then shuddered as he felt a light wind rush over him. He crossed himself, then started to rise when he heard a voice behind him. "Robert Parks, I presume?" He whipped around to face the person behind him, praying that this wasn't the part where his entire life flashed before his eyes... A black-winged figure was standing about ten feet away, with his black hair flowing slightly in the breeze and his tunic rustling slightly as well. The colonel's eyes immediately darted to the sword that was at the interloper's hip, and he started backing away. "Who are you? How do you know who I am? Why have you people taken me here?" He kept backing away, trying to get closer to the sword without the thing noticing. It cocked its head slightly, then shook his head, chuckling. "Give me a few moments of your time, and I'll be happy to explain things to you as best I can." The man started walking towards him, but at an angle that gave the impression that he wasn't trying to make this an offensive action. "First of all, my name is Laurence, and I'm one of the many people that live here in this place. I'm also a Catholic, much like yourself, Mr. Parks." He nodded towards the sword/cross by the soldier. "I've done that same thing on the eve of more than one battle where I wasn't sure of the outcome, so I recognized it instantly. As for how I knew who you were, my position here requires me to be well informed about 'strange elements', which you qualify as. Most people don't run away and hide when they make it to Heaven, after all..." The colonel grabbed the sword out of the ground and held it in front of him. "This isn't Heaven - I don't see any people with harps or babies with halos sitting on clouds or choirs of angels singing. Some of you people may look like angels, but you aren't going to -" Laurence chuckled slightly. "First off, you've been going the wrong way. The choirs of angels are typically found back the way you came, in the Eternal City. As for the kids, why would they be sitting on clouds? Have you ever met a baby who would sit still for more than a few minutes when there are other kids and toys and animals to play with?" "Well, no... but -" Laurence cocked his head to the side, seemingly amused. "Do you really want a harp? I can get you one, and I can even arrange for lessons for you if you're really interested." Robert shot back at him, "Do _you_ know how to play the harp?" Laurence leaned against a tree, stretching his arms before folding them in front of him. "Not really, come to mention it. I'm sure I could, but I've never had the time to learn. I play the guitar and mandolin, and I've even tried my hand behind a drum set when one of my friends asked me to, but nope - - no harp." Robert smiled a bit. "You know, I never liked harps, myself. Guess that means I don't have to learn how to play one in order to blend in until I get out of here." The black-winged figure spread his hands a bit. "Well, that could prove a bit more challenging. You see, it's not like we can let everyone go back to Earth. It's not just you, you know - everybody asks for a chance to go back. If it was up to us, we'd probably let them, but can you imagine what that would do to the people still on Earth? If people form Heaven could come back and visit them, what would be the implication if someone never did?" "That they'd gone to Hell?" The figure nodded. Robert started to form a snappy comeback, but his knees were starting to become weak under him. He sat down heavily beside a tree, then looked over at Laurence. "But there's a flaw in your story - if this is Heaven, how did I get here? I've broken almost every commandment - I've killed people, slept with married women, I've worked on Sundays, lied - if this is Heaven, you explain to me how I got away with all that." Laurence looked into his eyes for a second before answering. "Because it doesn't work that way, Robert. You have done a lot of terrible things, but you didn't ever take pleasure in it. You did what you had to do because you knew it was the right thing to do, or so you thought, anyway. You see yourself as someone who's committed a lot of sins in your day, but let me tell you what I see." Laurence's eyes locked into Robert's, and Robert felt a shudder come over him as he realized that, no matter who or what this person was in front of him, this 'Laurence' _knew_ him - he could feel every action that he'd ever done, good or ill, racing through his mind. Images of every person he'd fired in anger at, every life that he'd ended, every 'alien' he'd put down raced through his head impossibly fast, yet taking what seemed like an eternity. "I see all of these things - every sin you ever committed in the name of your country, in the name of 'national security'. I can tell you the name of every person that you've ever hurt, of every person who had to go to a funeral that you caused." "And then I can tell you about an 'alien' who was suffering from cancer, from being on Earth for too long. I can tell you about how you never tried to be cruel to the 'aliens' in your care, and wouldn't let anyone be cruel on your shift. I could tell you about all the times you questioned whether or not you were doing the right thing by holding them prisoner. When that final night came for you, you let Janelle die in her sleep, ending her suffering, rather than keep her in pain." Robert started shaking slightly, fear creeping into his voice. "Then Janelle, she wasn't an alien, was she? She was an -" "Yes, she was. Most of them were - a few of them were Demons, but the ones you had in your care were mostly angels. Two of them were my direct co-workers, but that's all right for now." The alien - no, the _angel_ leaned back and looked at him. "You know, she had four hours left. The people who work for Janus start dying inside if they stay in one place for more than three days at a time. She was as bad off as she could get before she fell. Four more hours and she would have spent an eternity undoing everything that she'd spent her entire life working for. But let me finish what I was saying earlier." Colonel Parks nodded slowly as he continued. "Like I was saying, you didn't risk your career to save an angel, or even a human being. You risked it to save an alien, someone who was intent on undermining everything that generations of people had spend their lives working towards. You couldn't stand by and watch somebody suffer, even though they were an avowed enemy of yours. And in that one instant where you decided that you couldn't just stand by and do nothing, you went from being just another soldier to being something a little more." Laurence smiled a bit more openly this time. "She's going to be fine, by the way. I've just spoken with her superior, and he's taken care of everything." His brow furrowed slightly, "Although I wonder what that 'christmas tree' comment was about, but that's neither here nor there at the moment." Robert stood up, looking guilty. "Well, I guess I should apologize about..." He stopped as Laurence put up a hand. "Don't worry about it. You see, while I don't exactly approve of everything you did, I don't condemn it either. Your heart was in the right place. Besides..." He got up and dusted himself off before finishing. "My father told me something when I was younger. He said that God had always intended for humanity to write its own destiny, and that we were simply supposed to help you find your way back to the path you chose for yourself. Lucifer's rebellion changed all of that, but the idea is still sound. You have to find your own way to the truth, and if we're willing drag humanity kicking and screaming to what we say is the truth, then in his own way Lucifer has already won." After a few moments of thought, Robert nodded. "Makes sense. Well, I'm convinced, I guess. Still... thank you for everything. I'm glad to be here." Laurence reached out and shook his hand. "It's more the other way around, actually. We're glad to have you here. I'm sure you're be able to find your friends and family that are here..." He noticed that Laurence was looking behind him and nodding. "But I wouldn't worry about that right now - I think one of your friends has already found you." Robert started to speak, but he felt a feminine hand cup over his mouth and heard a whispered 'Guess who, Controller Bob?' in his ear as he felt his feet leave the ground and watched the clouds grow ever closer from inside an embrace of white-feathered wings. Michael Cleveland Gulf Coast Geotech _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 09:01:43 -0600 From: "Cthulhu" Subject: Re: IN> Newbie Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >Infernal Player's Guide - I had a lot more to do with it, and it's a lot >better. The art is better, too. My little comment on the IPG/APG situation: I run demonic games. In fact, I've never yet run a game with Angelic PCs. Most of my players like it like that. So it made sense for me to buy the IPG. And I did, and was pretty happy with it. EXCEPT for one thing. It references the APG too much for my liking. I kept finding sections which read "this is almost the same as described in the APG", such as Djinn specialist Discord, the Songs of Fruition, etc. Now I know that avoiding repetition of information is a good thing, but one of the greatest appeals, for me, of the IN line is how stand-alone each book is. I can't afford to buy many rpgs at the £20 price they normally come in at. So it was very irritating to not have the information I wanted for my purpose. And if I hadn't won the APG at a convention (Warpcon, in Eire, plug), then I'd still be scratching my head. I've no objection to minor details being reprinted in different sourcebooks - - that's what's happening with the Revelations Cycle and the Superiors books, in a way, right? So please don't make IN get to the level that the World of Darkness series has. Please. Cthulhu, Rich in Essence, but that and 75p will buy me a coffee. _____________________________________________ Free email with personality! Over 200 domains! http://www.MyOwnEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 09:03:29 -0600 From: "Cthulhu" Subject: IN> Re: IN: Newbie Brian R. Boyko wrote: >Well, with In Nomine - the core rulebook is really all you need, unlike >some games in the WoD line - (Mage & GTTT comes to mind) Although there's >only so much stuff you can cram into the core book. Sorry, GTTT? I just can't work out what that is. Silly Cthulhu _____________________________________________ Free email with personality! Over 200 domains! http://www.MyOwnEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 23:28:22 +0800 From: Manny Nepomuceno Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN: Newbie Hey, Did my Leilani post get through? Or should I send again? ;) Manny Neps ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 15:37:23 -0000 From: "I. Inayat" Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN: Newbie - ----- Original Message ----- From: Cthulhu To: Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 3:03 PM Subject: IN> Re: IN: Newbie > Brian R. Boyko wrote: > > >Well, with In Nomine - the core rulebook is really all you need, unlike > >some games in the WoD line - (Mage & GTTT comes to mind) Although there's > >only so much stuff you can cram into the core book. > > Sorry, GTTT? I just can't work out what that is. > > Silly Cthulhu Either Guide to the Technocracy or Guide to the Traditions (both share the same acronym - GttT. Usually differentiated as GttTech and GttTrad). Not sure which he means. We now return you to your IN list... Imran ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:57:09 -0500 From: "Jeffery Watkins" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Something Different Very nice story, but it somehow just seems so wrong. I guess the premise that heaven has angels at the gates of hell, so too does hell, but you had Lilith at jacobs ladder, not at the gates of heaven, which the books do say people pass through. Once again good story, it just seems like sometimes this list can get very dark and depressing. Jeffery _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 11:32:37 -0500 From: "Jeffery Watkins" Subject: Re: IN> Prj. Silence - Captive Vignette Pt 4 (end) AWESOME! I loved it! Bravo! Bravo! You've really turned this thread around for me. I had gotten to the point if I saw Silence in the subject head I was just deleting it. I am sooooo happy you wrote this series, it was not only well written, it involved me so heavily with the characters and also took me on an emotional roller coaster ride. The meeting with Laurence in particular was a nice interplay of characters and the end was so uplifting. I cannot thank you enough for posting. [Daily Essence....no weekly Essence to YOU] Jeffery _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 09:05:32 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Prj. Silence - Captive Vignette Pt 4 (end) [bows head humbly] Dude, this was AWESOME. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Love is an exploding cigar which we willingy smoke." -- Linda Barry __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 14:46:50 -0500 (EST) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> Prj. Silence - Captive Vignette Part 3 I have to tell you, I'm on the edge of my seat for the next installment of this one... WONDERFUL storyline. - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! "Now, am I expected to trot off into bovine obedience by your manly swagger, or just MOO?" -- Portnoy, _Bloom County_ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:18:42 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: IN> Abiressia Part III Last one; feedback appreciated! Archangels Blandine: Did you know that she has a special pack of demons devoted to nightmares of pursuit? She has much to answer for, oh, yes. _So much power -- without the will to use it. Blandine is no threat_. Christopher: You know those reports of loving pets that suddenly turn on their owners? A lot of that is Abiressia's doing. No child should be afraid of his own dog! _The master-slave relationship between Humans and animals must end. A tie of affection is just another kind of leash. If Christopher wants to stop me, let him try... but you know what happens when a little boy takes on a tigress_. David: The value of the pack is the only thing she's right about. As for the rest, she's merely a nuisance. _David is a being of raw, primal force. I can respect that_. Dominic: There are Princes who are greater threats than she is. Abiressia will be dealt with in her turn. _I've heard him called a hyena. It's meant as an insult, but uttered by those who don't appreciate what a powerful predator the hyena really is. Dominic is dangerous, never forget that_. Eli: Abiressia? Oh, yeah, she throws great parties. _I've met him. I don't understand him. I certainly can't fathom his instincts. This disturbs me_. Gabriel: Should she be punished with the cruel? Then she will be punished. Otherwise, why should I know of her? _I... avoid... Gabriel. You needn't concern yourself with why_. Janus: Claws can't rend the wind. Fangs can't bite the wind. Stripes can't hide from the wind. She can't touch me, and she can't escape me, and she knows that. _Janus is as primal as David and far less predictable. And so like Valefor, my favorite Prince! Mmmm, I wonder..._ Jean: In her quest to sabotage Vapula's operations, she sometimes hits one of mine by mistake. She has proven to be an annoyance. _He is just like Vapula, only more civilized. And that's a fault as far as I'm concerned_. Jordi: I feel her presence, the irritating burr of her Word against mine. Someday when I don't have more important things to deal with, I will scratch that itch until it itches no more. _I may act on instinct, but I'm no fool. I'm not ready to handle Jordi... yet_. Khalid: The beasts of the field have no faith, nor do they need it. But she would make a mere beast out of Man, and that is contrary to God's will. _Religion is just one more crutch that Humans rely on instead of trusting their instincts. Khalid keeps the breed weak_. Laurence: She has no honor and denies its value. So be it -- put her Servitors down as you would rabid dogs. _Honor is another way to respect the natural order. Laurence just cares too much for artificial rules instead of focusing on the natural, instinctive rules as I do. The weak are supposed to fear -- and feed -- the strong_. Litheroy: I part the tall grass and reveal the stalker to her prey. The Princess of the Wild has no power where I hold sway. _Revelation is a nuisance to those who stalk and ambush, but those who live by instinct have no other secrets to keep. Litheroy will never be more than a nuisance to me_. Marc: I stay out of her jungle, she stays out of mine. It's a fair trade. _I have my agents in the concrete jungle, but legal eagles and corporate sharks are creatures beyond my ken. Leave them to Marc_. Michael: She's all about results and the most efficient means to an end. She'd be almost respectable if she wasn't Fallen. _You know where you stand with Michael -- in the center of a bullseye_. Novalis: She's vicious without really being cruel, and nurtures without really being compassionate. Her idea of nature really is a mother. _I value Novalis highly. Without something to feed the prey, there would be nothing to feed the predators_. Raziel: No thought, all action -- easy to misdirect. In her desire to be ruled by instinct, she forgets how easily instincts can be fooled. _If he's not a Superior, he's prey rather than predator_. Vocatiel: All those voices, so little to say. What a sadly limited being. _Whenever Haagenti works up the nerve to dine on Archangel, I'll be happy to help him hunt this pathetic piece of soul-meat_. Yves: Not as big a threat as she would like to think, but she's more than bad enough. _Why should I concern myself with a tired old thing who never fights? The aged are easy prey_. Zadkiel: (smiling wickedly) I can't help wondering when Jordi's going to show her who the real alpha is. _I plan a lingering agony for Zadkiel, and each victim that she snatches from my jaws adds another decade to the time that she will suffer it. Of course I'm following my instincts when I say that -- have you ever seen a cat play with a mouse_? ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Love is an exploding cigar which we willingy smoke." -- Linda Barry __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 13:19:04 -0500 From: "Jeffery Watkins" Subject: Re: IN> Leilani pt 1 awesome, Awesome, AWESOME! Just what I was looking for. I was just struggling with coming up for an archangel for this area. The history, the attunements and even an opposite number! Looking forward to the rest. Bravo, sir, Bravo! [in the whole after Silence's Essence offering, but you get the rest] Jeffery _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:08:26 +0000 From: "Alison Lowe" Subject: IN> Re: Newbie Thanks for all your help guys! Plus, I'm gonna appologise for not trimming my last post -- especially for you guys who get the daily digest. Feel free to chastise and rant as much as you wish, not trimming is one of the worst Internet Sins. Alison "Do you think you're funny?" "I try not to fly in the face of public opinion." -Blackadder II Storyteller of World of Darkness: Hong Kong http: //communities.msn.co.uk/WorldofDarknessHongKong _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 14:48:05 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Re: Angels and Religion Michael Walton wrote: > No. Only with those who actually know the Bible And only with those who take it literally as well. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 16:14:44 -0500 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Leilani pt 1 > Cherubim: Cherubim of the Heavens are aware of all spatial bodies within > their line-of-sight, even those not normally visible to the unaided eye. I think you might want to put a limiter on this, because otherwise it negates the Ofanite attunement. > Ofanim: Even in space, Ofanim will never get lost. They instinctively know > the direction to Terra and the Sol system. All the Cherub has to do is be pointed in the right direction, and it'll know the direction to Terra/Sol as well. - -- Casca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 16:04:05 -0500 From: damienw@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> Re: Angels and Religion On Tue, 20 Nov 2001 12:41:31 +1100 "james walker" writes: > Mind you, I'd be tempted to hit a Balseraph with dissonance for > doing so, > given that acknowledging a ruler of THE Symphony is an implied > contradiction > of the sovereignty of their personal symphonies. That sounds entirely reasonable to me, too; One of the points of IN, (IMO) is that many of the details of the realities of Heaven and Hell have been lost or distorted in earthly religions, although many of the *essentials* are correct. Perhaps Paul ran into such a Balseraph and generalized the experience to all demons, or some such thing, in the In Nomine universe. - --- damienw[et]juno.com "To kill a man between panels is to condemn him to a thousand deaths." - Scott McCloud ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 18:04:30 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Lilim Princess? At 3:22 PM -0800 11/19/01, Michael Walton wrote: >--- Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> I saw all 11K of it. O:> > > ??? It was about 9.8K when I checked it at home. And >Part II's bigger -- guess I'll have to break this one up >into three parts. Oh, well... If it's under 10K on your system, then don't sweat it too much. Just bear in mind there may be some expansion along the way, so you don't figure, "it's only 12K... I'll send it." O:> (2nd one came in at 8K, BTW.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 18:11:21 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: Something Different At 3:40 PM +1000 11/20/01, Shane wrote: >[...] and can you re-incarnate if you've reached your >Destiny and gone to Heaven? Not technically -- in the canon, there are a _lot_ of people who hang around in the Lower Heavens for various reasons. But, mind, not everyone uses the canon. O:> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 18:15:41 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Newbie At 9:01 AM -0600 11/20/01, Cthulhu wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >>Infernal Player's Guide - I had a lot more to do with it, and it's a lot >>better. The art is better, too. > >My little comment on the IPG/APG situation: >[...] So it made sense for me to buy the >IPG. And I did, and was pretty happy with it. EXCEPT for one thing. > >It references the APG too much for my liking. Frankly, mine too. However, the fiction in the front of the IPG -- while entertaining -- is longer than that in the APG. The IPG has less space to include that sort of material. Now, if there were a great outcry to cut the fiction from the IPG... (And then there're the people who _do_ get both the APG and the IPG, and gripe seriously that there's ANY repeated material. Got that arguement, too.) >I've no objection to minor details being reprinted in different sourcebooks >- that's what's happening with the Revelations Cycle and the Superiors >books, in a way, right? In a way. Though I'd call that planned obselescence of the Rev Cycle... I'd be inclined, myself, to ditch the Fruition stuff from a second edition of the APG, and simply refer _both_ books to the Liber Canticorum for all the exact mechanics. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 17:25:46 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Newbie From: "Elizabeth McCoy" > I'd be inclined, myself, to ditch the Fruition stuff from a second > edition of the APG, and simply refer _both_ books to the Liber > Canticorum for all the exact mechanics. It gets my vote... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:39:51 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Re: Random Thought > From: "Christopher Hughes" > I was getting dinner tonight (gotta love the minimal job a University does > providing food during Thanksgiving Break!) when my deeply, darkly heretical > soul posed a question to my only-too-rational mind. > > What would the In Nomine universe be like if Lucifer had been of a > different Choir? What if, instead of the First Balseraph, he was the First > Habbalite, the First Shedite, the First Pachadite, the First > whatever-the-Hell-Fallen-Grigori-are-Called, or ::shudder:: the First > Malakite (I know they can't Fall, that's the point)? > > What do ya'll think? Scary. Lucifer started with a propaganda campaign; the shift from "spreading the light" to distorting the facts by careful misrepresentation is very much a Seraph to Balseraph transition, and so probably wouldn't have happened if he'd belonged to another choir. (Also, he'd have been lower status, so probably wouldn't have been as effective). Of the others: Cherub: The Word of Light would originally have been protective; the light of a cooking fire which reveals a threat, etc. Lucifer may have decided that as humans were God's current project, they didn't deserve Light's protection, and stormed off in a huff, taking a slab of heaven with him. Assuming the Fall happens, he then returns to obsessively 'prove' that humans don't deserve defending. David may Fall or be tolerant of Hell in this setting. Ofanite: It's very believable for a Word as elemental as Light to be held by an Ofanite; here Lucifer might have decided to disprove human importance by sending Sol nova. Not necessarily deliberately, either; the earthquakes described in S1 come to mind.* Elohite: The arguments with God, via Metatron, would take centre stage I suspect. Possibly Lucifer declares that Metatron is a traitor who is not speaking for God, and murders him, seeking to take his place? The Rebellion becomes a mass riot fought by multiple groups against each other, until the strongest group (Michael's) throws everyone else out of Heaven. Kyriotate: Ick. The first Shedite. I'm sure people don't really want *my* take on the advice Lilith would have got. Still, a very different world. Eve is probably never created (no point, after Lilith is finished 'playing' with Adam), Lilith wanders the world - maybe under the protection given to Cain. In this scenario, Dominic probably Falls; likely Jordi as well. Mercurian: Hmm. Strange. A Friend of Man decides they don't deserve his friendship. Lucifer probably remains in Heaven, bleeding humanity dry of essence and conniving to increase his personal status. Marc probably joins him; they were friends before the Fall, after all, and are now choir brothers as well. Menunim: Here, Lucifer's belief would be that the special position given to humanity breaks the legitimate hopes of the angels. Lucifer here would be the power behind the throne; the Rebellion would be led by someone like Baal. Grigori: This requires tampering with the timeline, of course. Assuming that the Grigori were created to protect humans from ethereals, rather than demons, this becomes possible. Lucifer probably leads a revolt against Dominic's sentence; Skulkers roam the Symphony, refusing to be contained. Any other angel who Falls is transformed into a Skulker, via a variation on celestial reproduction. Lilim: Very different. Assuming that a human reaches AAhood, and begins creating Bright Lilim, it's possible. "All I want is a Geas hook on God". Hmm. And Malakim: Maybe a variation on Uriel's Purity Crusade? The first Malakim are created while repelling an assault by the Ethereal gods, and later go overboard on the counterattack? Possibly Lucifer persuades Uriel that they should exterminate the pagans to destroy the Ethereals' power base. This is especially likely if the ethereal invasion relied heavily on a rebellion in Heaven by the Blessed Souls. I hope the people who've dreamt up their own choirs/bands will describe how Lucifer would change if he'd belonged to their choirs! Cheers, James * Gabriel's insane. She has a Tether in the sun. The Earth responds to David's anger. How long before the sun responds to Gabriel? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:49:04 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Re: Blessed Advantage > From: David Edelstein > james walker wrote: >> If you actually want to help people, you ask the question - where are my >> talents most useful? For someone with Blessed, the obvious options are law, >> politics and audit. As such, even those who are motivated by noble desires >> will be funneled into those careers. > > This assumes people KNOW they are Blessed. It isn't like they can > examine themselves and say, "So, with my Will of 8, what would I be best > at?" True enough - however, by the time they are adults, any human with a Will of 8 is going to know that they are 'naturals' at persuading people to do things; and *most* people with Blessed are going to know that they are difficult to persuade. The exceptions are those who have a below average Will. James. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 15:47:12 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Burzelic Subject: IN> Where? Which books contain info on Raphael and Legion and their battle? Basically, what and where is canon on these two? Thank you, Jim __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 15:53:31 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Burzelic Subject: IN> Ooh, ooh! Another Question In a celestial battle are the forces destroyed as in no more as in the Symphony has gotten smaller? Or do they return to the Symphonic pool that is Potential? Jim __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2453 ********************************