in_nomine-digest Wednesday, November 28 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2461 In this digest: Re: IN> Michael and his Word Re: IN> The Angel of Thorns Re: IN> Re: Klingons Re: IN> The Angel of Thorns Re: IN> Re: Klingons Re: IN> The Angel of Thorns Re: IN> Re: Klingons Re: IN> The Angel of Thorns Re: IN> Re: Klingons IN> The Eden Ban Star Trek Races (Was: Re: IN> Re: Klingons) Re: Star Trek Races (Was: Re: IN> Re: Klingons) Re: IN> Superior Hearts RE: IN> INSMV pbem offer IN> SF Races Re: Star Trek Races (Was: Re: IN> Re: Klingons) Re: Star Trek Races (Was: Re: IN> Re: Klingons) Re: IN> The Eden Ban Re: IN> The Eden Ban IN> Re: Star Trek Races Re: IN> The Eden Ban Re: IN> Michael and his Word Re: Star Trek Races (Was: Re: IN> Re: Klingons) IN> The Heartless World Re: IN> Michael and his Word RE: IN> The Heartless World IN> Triad 314 (Inspired by Dominican Tank Police) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 14:30:32 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Michael and his Word At 02:44 AM 11/27/01 -0600, you wrote: >Words can be expanded, but not taken away or changed into something else. > So the Angel of Buicks could become the Angel of Automobiles, but not >the Angel of Indigestion. becoming a Superior doesn't change a >celestial's Word, though it might happen at the same time as an expansion >(this is what Furfur wanted when he got his Princedom, to have his Word >changed from Hardcore to Rock & Roll). Actually, if I'm remembering canon correctly (and no, as I have *none* of my books with me, I don't have a source), Words *can* be taken away. (The proper term is Word-stripping, much like Force-stripping.) It only tends to happen in cases of gross malfeasance, however, or when a Word-bound angel is dangerously close to self-destruction (Word-bound demons are expected to be able to hold their own, of course). Lucifer will occasionally Word-strip a demon on a whim, or so that he can give the Word to a demon whom he feels more worthy, but it's not exactly an easy process or one that's performed often. It should also be noted that the process of stripping Words is exceptionally painful to the celestial involved, and can lead to soul-death if the Superior performing the Word-stripping isn't careful. In the event that an angel has been Word-stripped and then demonstrated beyond the Seraphim Council's expectations that he is in fact worthy of a Word, he might be given another, low-level Word. Such a demon, on the other hand, is unlikely to get another Word no matter how hard he tries; Hell is known for its collective ability to hold grudges. Any instance of this, though, *could* be considered Word-switching. To answer Donato's question, when a Word-bound celestial has her Word expanded, the old Word becomes vacant, as a subsidiary Word under the new, more powerful celestial. While the old holder of the Word may be consulted on who best to give the vacant Word to, it is in the end the decision of the Seraphim Council or Lucifer. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 15:09:39 -0500 From: "Jeffery Watkins" Subject: Re: IN> The Angel of Thorns Very nice...and scarry from a 'watch out for the nice guy' POV. And mean it! Jeffery _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 15:42:50 -0500 From: "Jason F. McBrayer" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Klingons On Tue, Nov 27, 2001 at 06:19:28PM +0200, Mervi Hamalainen wrote: > Have you written up Angel of Vulcans or (shudder) Angel of the Ferengi? Angel of Vulcans: an Elohite, if you want to go for the obvious choice. Superior is harder -- Yves, Raphael, Khalid, and Jean are all possibilities. Angel of Ferengi: Malakite of Trade. With an oath for each of the Rules of Acquisition (ow -- maybe just a single oath to uphold the RoA). "I will not give a sucker an even break, if it is my choice." And the Angel of Trill is obviously a Kyriotate... - -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Jason F. McBrayer jmcbray@carcosa.net | | The scalloped tatters of the King in Yellow must hide Yhtill | | forever. R.W. Chambers _The King in Yellow_ | ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 04:52:11 +0800 From: " Cameron McCurry" Subject: Re: IN> The Angel of Thorns >>Compared to Wrath of God (Khalid), which costs less Essence and is usable multiple times, it's rather underpowered. I would drop the Essence requirement and keep the 'once per day' restriction, myself. Ah. Thanks. I don't have The Final Trumpet so I had no idea that a similar ability existed. - -- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 20:54:26 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Klingons >From: "Jason F. McBrayer" >Subject: Re: IN> Re: Klingons >Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 15:42:50 -0500 >Angel of Ferengi: Malakite of Trade. With an oath for each of the >Rules of Acquisition (ow -- maybe just a single oath to uphold the >RoA). "I will not give a sucker an even break, if it is my choice." Would there even be an Angel of Ferengi? Ferengi seem to be Mammon's dream race. Not Marc -- Marc's into fair dealing, and Ferengi are into taking every advantage they can. - -- Chuckg _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 15:51:54 -0500 From: "Jason F. McBrayer" Subject: Re: IN> The Angel of Thorns On Tue, Nov 27, 2001 at 03:23:25PM -0500, Rev. Pee Kitty wrote: > On Tue, 27 Nov 2001, Cameron McCurry wrote: > > The Angel of Thorns > > Angel of Thorns: Once per day, with the expenditure of five Essence, > > Shemeriel will cause double damage with any blow that is unsuccessfully > > resisted. If a Divine Intervention is rolled, he does triple damage. > > My only minor dissension is that this special ability is really quite > weak. Compared to Wrath of God (Khalid), which costs less Essence and is > usable multiple times, it's rather underpowered. I would drop the Essence > requirement and keep the 'once per day' restriction, myself. It's also a little too directly offensive for my tastes. How about this: Angel of Thorns: By spending [some amount of essence], for a period of [some amount of time], any successful attacks on the angel will be returned [threefold?] on the attacker. After all, thorny plants don't leap out and attack you (though with blackberries it sometimes seems like it). - -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Jason F. McBrayer jmcbray@carcosa.net | | The scalloped tatters of the King in Yellow must hide Yhtill | | forever. R.W. Chambers _The King in Yellow_ | ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 15:01:47 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Klingons From: "Jason F. McBrayer" > > Angel of Vulcans: an Elohite, if you want to go for the obvious > choice. Superior is harder -- Yves, Raphael, Khalid, and Jean are all > possibilities. After seeing "Enterprise," I can't see anybody but an Elohite of Jean having this Word. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 05:27:35 +0800 From: " Cameron McCurry" Subject: Re: IN> The Angel of Thorns >>After all, thorny plants don't leap out and attack you (though with blackberries it sometimes seems like it). True enough. But the idea behind him is that he is the one Novalis sends when extreme violence is called for. Thus the reference to the nickname "Scourge of Flowers." - -- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 17:07:30 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Klingons >>From: "Jason F. McBrayer" >>Subject: Re: IN> Re: Klingons >>Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 15:42:50 -0500 > >>Angel of Ferengi: Malakite of Trade. With an oath for each of the >>Rules of Acquisition (ow -- maybe just a single oath to uphold the >>RoA). "I will not give a sucker an even break, if it is my choice." Yeah, ow. There are over two hundred RoA, and some of them are almost diametrically opposed. ("War is good for trade." "Peace is good for trade.") Not to mention ones like "Exploitation begins at home"! I don't even think the Angel of the Ferengi would *support* the Rules of Acquisition, unless they were very, *very* good at finding positive meanings. For example, "Exploitation begins at home, so that's where it needs to be nipped in the bud most expeditiously." >Would there even be an Angel of Ferengi? Ferengi seem to be Mammon's dream >race. Not Marc -- Marc's into fair dealing, and Ferengi are into taking >every advantage they can. The Angel of Ferengi would certainly be involved in an uphill battle to redeem the race, but it's one battle Marc would love to win. Heaven doesn't just pick the easy fights. >-- >Chuckg William ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 17:06:03 -0500 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: IN> The Eden Ban I mentioned this a while ago, and I have time and inclination to write it up now. Victims of my game may be interested to know that this was my first serious deviation from canon, and in some manner of speaking is the wellspring from which all future heresies sprung. Note: I've run my games with this ruling for almost four years now, and have yet to find a player who abuses it. Not that it I'm saying it can't be abused, mind you, just that I've not had problems. Of course, I also think that any GM who can't squash annoying munchkin tendencies in his players isn't worthy of the screen, so maybe that's saying something as well. The Eden Ban - -------------------- "And The LORD spoke, and Heaven shook with the sound of His Voice, and angels could no longer manifest upon the Earth. Such was the Will of GOD." The failure of Eden left Heaven in a certain amount of turmoil. Some angels were aghast at how easily humans could be manipulated and swore not to interfere in their lives. Some angels were aghast at how easily humans could be manipulated and immediately started interfering, the logic being that if humanity was going to be swayed it might as well be swayed in the proper direction. All Heavenly politics stems from this initial division. Then God stepped in, and rendered much of the debate meaningless with what became known as the Eden Ban. The Ban, in effect, prevents any celestial from travelling between the corporeal and the celestial realm without using a tether. The only exceptions to this rule were the Archangels, who by their positions of authority were assumed to be responsible enough to know when to manifest blatantly and when to use more subtle means. (Later, the Demon Princes discovered they had this ability as well. Whether God forsaw this eventuality and permitted it anyway is a favorite topic of debate among Elohim.) Mechanics: Pretty simple, really. No tether, no travel. This makes tethers far more strategically important. For sake of balance, I ruled that celestials (including Kyrios and Shedim) may stay in Celestial form on Earth indefinitely. This isn't the drawback one might think, as they're constantly churning out disturbance, and it leaves them open to soul-killing. Songs of Projection become much more useful, as does Corporeal Dreams or the Dream Walking attunement. Note that angels visiting the Marches via these last two means are prevented from entering Heaven or Hell through their respective towers, because otherwise it'd be an end-run around the Ban. On the good side, they can converse with celestials on the dream-side of things. This gives a deliberate advantage to servants of Blandine and Beleth, who are underpowered on the Corporeal anyway and deserve a boost. - -- Casca "Many people hear voices when no-one is there. Some of them are called mad and are shut up in rooms where they stare at the walls all day. Others are called writers and they do pretty much the same thing." --Margaret Chittenden, writer ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 17:16:31 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Star Trek Races (Was: Re: IN> Re: Klingons) >From: "Jason F. McBrayer" >> >> Angel of Vulcans: an Elohite, if you want to go for the obvious >> choice. Superior is harder -- Yves, Raphael, Khalid, and Jean are all >> possibilities. > >After seeing "Enterprise," I can't see anybody but an Elohite of Jean having >this Word. Elohite is definitely the obvious choice -- a Seraph might also appreciate the notion of the search for absolute logical Truth, but Surak's philosophy is overall very Elohite. (Unlike many people believe, his philosophy is not necessarily about *elimination* of emotions -- that's one possible ideal, embodied in the Kohlinar path -- but simply mastering them. An Elohite would call it "not acting subjectively." :^) ) I can see why Jean is also the obvious choice given the setting of "Enterprise," where the Vulcans are pacing human technology, at least for the moment. However, wasn't Surak(at least Spock's interpretation of him), as shown in ToS, also a dedicated pacifist? Elohite of Flowers might then be a possibility. Much has been made of how violent and aggressive Vulcans were before Surak, as exemplified by the current state of the Romulans. You have to wonder what David would think of the Horta. Mobile, sentient rocks; mmm, pretty. %^) William ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 16:31:08 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: Star Trek Races (Was: Re: IN> Re: Klingons) From: "William J. Keith" > > > >After seeing "Enterprise," I can't see anybody but an Elohite of Jean having > >this Word. > > Elohite is definitely the obvious choice -- a Seraph might also appreciate > the notion of the search for absolute logical Truth, but Surak's philosophy > is overall very Elohite. (Unlike many people believe, his philosophy is > not necessarily about *elimination* of emotions -- that's one possible > ideal, embodied in the Kohlinar path -- but simply mastering them. An > Elohite would call it "not acting subjectively." :^) ) The writer of the novel "Spock's World" posited that the Vulcan word that was translated as "logic" actually meant "control." That definition suits both Vulcans and Elohim perfectly, and adds an interesting touch to the ceremony shown in the animated series where a young Vulcan has to choose whether to follow the ways of the rest of his race or not (the applications of this to Haballah are but the first game implication that springs to mind.) > Much has been made of how violent and aggressive Vulcans > were before Surak, as exemplified by the current state of the > Romulans. Surak's pacifism could be ascribed as easily to a reaction against the bloody violence of his planet's past as to Flowers' influence (although a case could be made for the Angel of Vulcans being an Elohite of Flowers IST Novalis.) > You have to wonder what David would think of the Horta. Mobile, sentient > rocks; mmm, pretty. %^) And they neither use ranged weaponry nor strike first. David would love them, as would his Kyriotates (I could even see him granting them a role in addition to their existing choir attunement.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 22:48:04 -0000 From: "Stephen McIlvenna" Subject: Re: IN> Superior Hearts > At 7:36 PM +0000 11/26/01, John Dallman wrote: > >Do Superiors have Hearts? > > Mmmmm, been a while since this one has shown up... > > One concept is that a Superior's Domain counts as a Heart. > My initial thought was that a Superior's cathedral/domain was an equivalent to their Heart. (It also has a nice analogy to the Endless and their castles/domains in the Sandman, but that's a different story). As an alternative suggestion, maybe the Hearts of angelic Superiors are kept in the Upper Heavens and watched over by some uber-Archangels (not sure what Lucifer would do with his Prince's hearts). This might give rise to the possibility of Oannes, Raphael, etc being in an alternative form of trauma up Jacob's Ladder (which leads to the option of their return, as in one of my favourite bits of the 'And I feel fine' series). Stephen http://www.btinternet.com/~s.mci/innomine/inindex.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 16:32:32 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: RE: IN> INSMV pbem offer At 3:21 AM -0500 11/27/01, Perry Lloyd wrote: >>>I have no access to INSMV (and speak/read no French.) Is there any way to >>>work around with that lack? [...] >Well, I can't just give you a copy of my english translation, so I'll be >piecemealing out info as needed/requested, though I wonder how much I can >actually give out. Summaries are probably okay, especially if it's a private list and not, like, here where it's going to be archived and all. O:> >I wonder if Siroz would be interested in some sort of deal where you buy the >French game, send in a proof of purchase or something, and then you can >receive an English translation of it. Or something, I dunno. I believe they have a mailing list for their own stuff, so you could probably ask them. If they had a free English translation to hand out that wasn't all pretty (hey, you got the pretty art with the French version, right? O:> ), then they might be amenable. This could depend on what the SJGames contract is, mind -- but there are enough variables here that I wouldn't stake bets that something couldn't be worked out. >is open to everyone, SFAIK. I'll be creating another list soon for the >pbem. I like lurking... O:> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 07:42:00 +0800 From: " Cameron McCurry" Subject: IN> SF Races Since we are on a Sci Fi tangent, I figured I would take on the races of another (And far better in my opinion) series.... God created life on plantes other than Earth. Countless civilizations rose and fell, new languages and songs could be heard and God was praised in ways never heard on Earth. When Heaven and Hell became aware of these worlds, they sent their Servitors to guide the races that evolved there. But the Symphony was played differently than it was on Earth. The angels and demons had difficulty forming Vessels that were stable and could be seen easily. Rather than force the issue, they took a different approach here. They would not take direct action on these planets but instead influence their development from behind the scenes. And of course the War continued on these worlds. But rather than fighting directly, the angels and demons sent their chosen races against each other in a bloody contest. For many years, it looked as though Hell would win decisively; the demons not only appealed to their chosen race's sense of selfishness, they managed to acheive a cooperation with each other that only Heaven had been able to accomplish. But the tide finally turned in Heaven's favor and the demons were beaten back. They were forced to retreat to distant worlds to heal their wounds and to plot their return. The angels retreated to their own world and set themselves up as silent advisors to the other races and waited for the demons to return. And in the years to come, the worlds would know of the Vorlons and the Shadows.... - -- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 20:29:35 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: Star Trek Races (Was: Re: IN> Re: Klingons) - --- Prodigal wrote: > From: "William J. Keith" The writer of the novel "Spock's World" posited > that the Vulcan word that > was translated as "logic" actually meant "control." (looking up from scribbling) Oh, good. There'll be at least one person who won't be scratching his head at the Diane Duane references when I finally finish the writeup... :) (/looking up from scribbling) Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/13/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 22:36:03 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: Star Trek Races (Was: Re: IN> Re: Klingons) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice Lane" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 10:29 PM Subject: Re: Star Trek Races (Was: Re: IN> Re: Klingons) > (looking up from scribbling) > > Oh, good. There'll be at least one person who won't > be scratching his head at the Diane Duane references > when I finally finish the writeup... :) > > (/looking up from scribbling) Two people. *g* Incidentally, how would you classify T'Pring? Soldier of Factions? Or actual demonic servitor? Either way, she almost pulled off a *big* one for Malphas right there, wouldn't you say? (Lemme see... Kirk is in service to War. Spock is either Lightning or Destiny... or Lightning IST Destiny. McCoy is... hmmm... Stone?) - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 20:50:04 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> The Eden Ban - --- Eric Bertish wrote: > Of course, I also think that any GM who can't squash > annoying munchkin > tendencies in his players isn't worthy of the > screen, so maybe that's saying > something as well. Tsk, tsk, Eric. One shouldn't 'squash' munchkin tendencies in one's players. Instead, one should harness those tendencies and USE them to power one's own twisted inner vision*. If nothing else, it keeps us from idly looking around for the best place to insert the metaphorical dynamite... ;) Moe *BTW, from what I've seen so far in Eric's game the Eden Ban is an interesting - but not crippling - situation to work around (for that particular campaign, at least). It may not port well into more freeform games, though... ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/13/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 22:54:59 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> The Eden Ban - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice Lane" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 10:50 PM Subject: Re: IN> The Eden Ban > *BTW, from what I've seen so far in Eric's game the > Eden Ban is an interesting - but not crippling - > situation to work around (for that particular > campaign, at least). It may not port well into more > freeform games, though... Actually, I loved it -- it solves two of the bigger problems that I had DM'ing my last game. (How to get the players to play like Tethers are actually vitally important, and getting them to use Celestial Form so that the game actually had some celestial action in it at all.) - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 00:04:24 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: IN> Re: Star Trek Races >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Maurice Lane" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 10:29 PM >Subject: Re: Star Trek Races (Was: Re: IN> Re: Klingons) > > > >> (looking up from scribbling) >> >> Oh, good. There'll be at least one person who won't >> be scratching his head at the Diane Duane references >> when I finally finish the writeup... :) >> >> (/looking up from scribbling) > >Two people. *g* Three, and before this goes on much further I'm sure others have too. ;^) >Incidentally, how would you classify T'Pring? Soldier of Factions? Or >actual demonic servitor? She pulled strings controlling the people around her, nearly fracturing an entire planet from its people -- yeah, Factions is a good notion. She did it for presumed revenge for her dead lover, though, so let me twist your brain with the notion of a Vulcan in service to Lust. Certainly fits more with the ToS version, since the books aren't canon. As for McCoy, I don't recall him ever raising his hand against another sentient being when not under mental control. Hyposprays were the limit of what I recall -- very nonviolent, very effective. Well, in ST6 he did rewire a torpedo, but that was completely in self-defense. I dunno, maybe I just have Flowers on the brain, although they do stereotype as the "healers." >-- >Chuckg William ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 12:35:26 -0500 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> The Eden Ban > Tsk, tsk, Eric. One shouldn't 'squash' munchkin > tendencies in one's players. Instead, one should > harness those tendencies and USE them to power one's > own twisted inner vision*. Good God, man, I tried. I gave you the option of letting Furfur soul-kill Belial and you *turned it down.* Now if Moe "I hate Belial" Lane says no, what chance do I have? Nah, I'll just chortle evilly and foist the VapuCyberJormundgandr upon you. >:) > If nothing else, it keeps us from idly looking around > for the best place to insert the metaphorical > dynamite... - -- Casca "Many people hear voices when no-one is there. Some of them are called mad and are shut up in rooms where they stare at the walls all day. Others are called writers and they do pretty much the same thing." --Margaret Chittenden, writer ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 23:50:29 -0600 From: toadpooka@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> Michael and his Word On Tue, 27 Nov 2001 14:30:32 -0500 EDG writes: > Actually, if I'm remembering canon correctly (and no, as I have > *none* of my books with me, I don't have a source), Words *can* only > tends be taken away. (The proper term is Word-stripping, much like Force-stripping.) I was rong about this; Lucifer or the Seraphim Council can strip a Word from a celestial. Nothing was said about the process almost killing the celestial in question, only that life is very different for the "stripped" being. From Whom It May Concern, Rich Ranallo "Rock and Roll will be the new planetary culture, believe it or not." - -Prof. Michio Kaku ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:16:55 -0500 From: Matthew Gerber Subject: Re: Star Trek Races (Was: Re: IN> Re: Klingons) Charles Glasgow wrote: >Two people. *g* > Three. :) >Incidentally, how would you classify T'Pring? Soldier of Factions? Or >actual demonic servitor? > It's a tough call. Though Habbalite of Factions is tempting, given (1) her desire for vengeance/punishment and (2) what she was able to do to Spock's control. >(Lemme see... Kirk is in service to War. Spock is either Lightning or >Destiny... or Lightning IST Destiny. McCoy is... hmmm... Stone?) > If you include _The Entropy Effect_, it almost *has* to be either Flowers or Creation. Matt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:32:17 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: IN> The Heartless World Going along with the theme of the Eden Ban (great work, BTW), the notion struck me: What would an IN game be like without Hearts? Picture the world of the Eden Ban. The only connections between the Celestial, Ethereal and Corporeal Realms are Tethers. This makes Tether-formation *incredibly* important, natch -- and also explains how Lilith got made a Demon Princess. If the only way to reach the Corporeal Realm is via Tethers, then her formation of the first Infernal Tether ever makes her an *extremely* pivotal figure in the history of both Hell and the Universe. For that kind of service, you get the big payoff. Now add on the 'Heartless' philosophy... Game effects that I can see: A) Vessel-loss is no longer a joke, and celestial combat actually has a big place in the game. When you lose your Vessel, you *don't* snap back to Heaven and stare at your heart. Instead, there you are in Celestial form... where you died. And if you can't get back to the nearest Tether and up (or down) the ladder before the enemy runs you down, you are one dead celestial. This also explains how soul-killing can happen even as halfway often as IN canon implies it does -- I dunno about you, but I have *never* actually seen a soul-killing in any game I've run in or played, simply because anybody with the slightest amount of sense spends the Essence (1) and ascends/descends to their Heart as soon as their first Force-loss starts becoming imminent. This would also help explain why Sword servitors are so /especially/ feared as demon-hunters... with the right attunement (Ofanite of the Sword, right?), *they can run you down*. What's the one that lets a Sword servitor in persuit move twice as fast as you? A combination of Ofanite of the Sword and the Hunt attunement explains the Order of the Eternal Sword's perfect record... barring Infernal Intervention or a successful Superior Invocation, you just ain't gettin' home. (1) And nobody *ever* spent their last points of Essence that I've ever played with, for precisely this reason. And Will scores tended to be pretty beefed. B) Trauma doesn't exist. Why should it? It's not needed. This does tend to take some of the starch out of playing a Malakite, natch... but depending on their players, some DM's might find that a help. Plus, if need be, we can game-balance by adding on another 'improved death survival' factor for Malakim... maybe giving them a Choir-wide bonus to celestial combat (or celestial speed) so that the average Malakite fights his way back to the Tether better than the average any-other-celestial, which would fit in well with their having been purpose-built as Heaven's demon-hunters. C) Superiors Are Immune. Between the Songs of Bridging and Correspondence, Superiors don't need Tethers. (Part of their Superior-ness.) So you can still Invoke them. And they can still pop in and out of the plot. Provided that they don't mind making enough disturbance to not only wake the dead, but make Saminga complain that his neighbors are staying up too late. So they still won't do it much. Corollary: C1) Lilith Is Damned Significant As the only Superior immune to creating Disturbance, the implications are obvious. And isn't it fitting that the Princess of Freedom be the one who can 'blip' in and out of the three planes however she sees fit, without consequence? This is just a bunch of semi-random thoughts, not a finished treatise -- take the ball and run with it, guys! - -- Chuckg _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:50:37 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Michael and his Word At 11:50 PM 11/27/01 -0600, you wrote: >I was rong about this; Lucifer or the Seraphim Council can strip a Word >from a celestial. Nothing was said about the process almost killing the >celestial in question, only that life is very different for the >"stripped" being. I believe that it's mentioned in a throwaway line elsewhere, but I'm not *absolutely* sure. It *is* the basis of one short story of mine, but I'm not sure if that's a reaction to canon or a product of a deranged mind. ;) - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:07:35 -0600 From: Matthew Cutter Subject: RE: IN> The Heartless World This is...fun. Especially with the Eden Ban. - -Matt C. Matthew C. Cutter Support Analyst Epicor Technical Support mcutter@epicor.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Charles Glasgow [mailto:cglasgow@hotmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 10:32 AM > To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > Subject: IN> The Heartless World > > > Going along with the theme of the Eden Ban (great work, BTW), > the notion > struck me: > > What would an IN game be like without Hearts? > > Picture the world of the Eden Ban. The only connections between the > Celestial, Ethereal and Corporeal Realms are Tethers. This makes > Tether-formation *incredibly* important, natch -- and also > explains how > Lilith got made a Demon Princess. If the only way to reach > the Corporeal > Realm is via Tethers, then her formation of the first > Infernal Tether ever > makes her an *extremely* pivotal figure in the history of > both Hell and the > Universe. For that kind of service, you get the big payoff. > > Now add on the 'Heartless' philosophy... > > Game effects that I can see: > > A) Vessel-loss is no longer a joke, and celestial combat > actually has a big > place in the game. > > When you lose your Vessel, you *don't* snap back to Heaven > and stare at your > heart. Instead, there you are in Celestial form... where you > died. And if > you can't get back to the nearest Tether and up (or down) the > ladder before > the enemy runs you down, you are one dead celestial. This > also explains > how soul-killing can happen even as halfway often as IN canon > implies it > does -- I dunno about you, but I have *never* actually seen a > soul-killing > in any game I've run in or played, simply because anybody > with the slightest > amount of sense spends the Essence (1) and ascends/descends > to their Heart > as soon as their first Force-loss starts becoming imminent. > > This would also help explain why Sword servitors are so > /especially/ feared > as demon-hunters... with the right attunement (Ofanite of the Sword, > right?), *they can run you down*. What's the one that lets a Sword > servitor in persuit move twice as fast as you? A > combination of Ofanite of > the Sword and the Hunt attunement explains the Order of the > Eternal Sword's > perfect record... barring Infernal Intervention or a > successful Superior > Invocation, you just ain't gettin' home. > > (1) And nobody *ever* spent their last points of Essence that > I've ever > played with, for precisely this reason. And Will scores > tended to be pretty > beefed. > > B) Trauma doesn't exist. > > Why should it? It's not needed. > > This does tend to take some of the starch out of playing a Malakite, > natch... but depending on their players, some DM's might find > that a help. > Plus, if need be, we can game-balance by adding on another > 'improved death > survival' factor for Malakim... maybe giving them a > Choir-wide bonus to > celestial combat (or celestial speed) so that the average > Malakite fights > his way back to the Tether better than the average > any-other-celestial, > which would fit in well with their having been purpose-built > as Heaven's > demon-hunters. > > C) Superiors Are Immune. > > Between the Songs of Bridging and Correspondence, Superiors > don't need > Tethers. (Part of their Superior-ness.) So you can still > Invoke them. And > they can still pop in and out of the plot. > > Provided that they don't mind making enough disturbance to > not only wake the > dead, but make Saminga complain that his neighbors are > staying up too late. > So they still won't do it much. > > Corollary: > > C1) Lilith Is Damned Significant > > As the only Superior immune to creating Disturbance, the > implications are > obvious. And isn't it fitting that the Princess of Freedom > be the one who > can 'blip' in and out of the three planes however she sees > fit, without > consequence? > > > This is just a bunch of semi-random thoughts, not a finished > treatise -- > take the ball and run with it, guys! > > -- > Chuckg > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 17:37:44 From: "Michael Cleveland" Subject: IN> Triad 314 (Inspired by Dominican Tank Police) The three celestials sitting in the back of the van kept shifting their weight nervously, anxiously awaiting the opportunity to move around. Their seats were uncomfortable, the shocks absorbers had long since given out, and the air conditioner blew hot air straight from the engine that smelled of oil and exhaust. They all knew that they were in trouble - they'd been told to not look anywhere but at the back of the seat in front of them and to not say a word until they had stopped. The van shifted suddenly, taking a corner very quickly and throwing the members of the Triad around the inside of the van. Muriel glared up at the front of the van and started to make a comment, until she remembered that it wasn't an Ofanite in the driver's seat. Looking into the rear-view mirror, she could see the eyes of their driver shimmering with barely supressed anger and swallowed down any thoughts of protesting. The others had already come to the same conclusion, but looked at the Seraph as if to say 'What now?' She shrugged as she picked herself up and moved back to the seat. Shifting her body slightly, she hid the motions of her hands from the driver - HE'S NOT USUALLY THIS BAD A DRIVER. Jack shook his head as well, and motioned back - THIS WILL NOT BE PLEASANT - before instantly snapping his head back towards the seat. The van was stopping, and that could only mean that they were where they were to be stationed. The three of them snapped to attention as the driver of the van turned around to look at them. He locked eyes with each of them, and then looked at the Cherub. "Jack, you have something to say about your next assignment?" He swallowed quickly. "No, Most... Nothing of consequence, Most Holy." "Good. Now, look out the window on your left. That is a Capital Tether of Fate. Your assignment is to watch this Tether of Fate until I relieve you of this duty. You are to take pictures of those who enter and leave. You are to take pictures of their vehicles. You are to note any symphonic disturbances that you hear, and what time they occur. You are to stay within sight of this Tether of Fate at all times except for on Thursdays, when agents of The Game run a security sweep, during which time you are free to move about. You are to ignore any other celestial operations unless they intersect this investigation. Do you understand what I've said so far?" The three answered in unison. "Yes, Most Holy." "Good. Now, let me just lay a few minor ground rules for you all. All of these relate to this Tether of Fate, and how I expect you to conduct your investigation." Dominic pulled out a notepad and flipped through several pages, rattling things off. "You will not attack the Tether. You will not shoot at the people from the Tether first. You will not goad the people from the Tether into shooting at you. You will not pick fights with the people from the Tether. You will not flirt with the people from the Tether. You will not walk into the Tether with a bomb strapped to your Vessel. You will not convince any other angel to walk into the Tether with a bomb. You will not put the sigil of Judgment on the Tether's wall as graffiti. You will not gamble using Judgment's funds. And under _no_ circumstances are you to tar and feather the local Game representatives." The three looked down into their laps. "Yes, Most Holy." Dominic looked at the third member of the Triad. "Laris, I expect you to behave yourself this time. I will not have you bailed out if you get caught by the local authorities taking a stolen vehicle at twice the speed limit or higher. Ofanite or not, I expect you to restrain your impulses." The wiry teenager looked up at Dominic. "But the Ofanim of Janus..." "Still get prosecuted by Judgment, and they only manage to get away with it only because their Archangel approves of their actions. _Yours_ does not. Don't push your luck. Now, are their any questions?" "What if we -" "No." "Ok, well, what if they -" "They won't." "But -" "No." "What if they start -" "Then shoot back." "But -" "Don't miss." "Ok, but what about -" "Asmodeus is not going to come after you." "But -" "Then run away." "But he -" "Then drive faster." "Ok, but what if we -" "Leave them alone." "But -" "No hassling the Creationers. I mean it." "Yes, Sir. But what if Armagedd -" "Then I'll come get you, but until then you stay in sight of that Tether of Fate. Now, get to work." Dominic translated himself upward towards the Celestial Plane. Reforming inside his office, he poured himself a cup of coffee and allowed himself a few moments of relaxation. The last time he'd had them do something like this, the orgy they'd provoked had been sufficient to destabilize the Tether of The War and turn it towards Lust. Two Knights of The War and a Captain of Lust had gotten picked off in the resulting melee, and the two factions in that city hadn't spoken for months afterwards. If their track record held through, the restrictions he had put on them should make them desperate enough to find some way to destroy or destabilize the Tether so they could go about their merry way. 'Let Michael keep his professionals,' he thought to himself. 'If you want thinking done outside of the box, stuff them in so tightly that they'll do anything to get out of it...' - -------------------------- Triad 314 Triad 314 is, on the books, the worst triad to ever see duty on the corporeal plane. Their files are filled with official reprimands, convictions for destruction of property, misappropriation of funds, consorting with the fallen, overindulgence in corporeal pleasures, and direct insubordination. Assignment to this triad is assumed to mean that somehow, in some way, you have managed to irritate Dominic almost to the point of execution, but not quite. Members of Triad 314 get the absolute worst corporeal assignments, from watching Capital Tethers of The Game without getting noticed to acting as a Novalisian honor guard during the few times Novalis ventures into Michael's Groves. Being part of the 314'th is a sure sign of Dominican disfavor. Wrong. Dominic understands that there are certain people that chafe at the authoritarian nature of Judgment, yet still want to help punish the wicked and help their fellow angels find right instead of wrong. Many of these people find their way into other organizations, such as Flowers or Destiny, but some decide that they want to 'change Judgment'. Dominic doesn't always feel that he needs changing, mind you, but there's probably a reason that some of these people stick with him, and refuse to go anywhere else. This can lead to some of his best investigators, as these people are fiercely loyal to him... This can also lead to discipline problems, as the makeup of the typical Triad does not need anything that even remotely smacks of 'treasonous thinking' to make it paranoid. Free thinkers are not welcome in many Triads, and can lead to performance problems within the group itself. Often, the members of Triad 314 are redeemed hellspawn that have not completely overcome certain attitudes about how things should and should not be done. Many people in Judgment would consider them heretics, but oddly enough, Dominic himself does not. When they chose to redeem and were brought into the light of Heaven, God Himself had the opportunity to Judge them, and He did not find them wanting. Dominic has an image to uphold as the authoritarian, hard-nosed Judge solely devoted to rules and regulations, but he also has the capability of recognizing those who can be counted on to get a job done based solely on their own initiative. Since the standard model of Triads doesn't allow for 'free rein', Dominic has found that a slightly different approach can have appreciable results, if not the ones that were necessarily expected. Certain jobs require a streak of ingenuity that requires a more flexible mindset, and if you've got plenty of people that are 'bent' to begin with, you can get things done that will boggle the mind. Problem cases are always the ones that are the most 'hands-on' to begin with, and if you've got someone that might 'misunderstand' or 'fail to understand precisely what you wanted'... Certain jobs are deemed impossible from the get-go, and these are the ones that Triad 314 gets assigned. Dominic has tried the traditional methods by the time that the 314'th gets there, and he's typically concluded that there is absolutely no 'logical' way of getting a job done. That's where they come in - the logic being that if you've tried every way that makes sense, start using ways that don't. Stick 314 into a position where a certain particular job has to be gotten out of the way before they can return to their 'normal duties'. This isn't hard to do, as the Triad has probably managed to get itself into trouble at some point in the recent past. Set the job up in such a way that the Triad assumes that this is punishment detail. Leave them with incredibly restrictive instructions that will reinforce the assumptions that this is punishment, but will also prevent them from making the same mistakes as previous Triads. When enough pressure and boredom has built up, the inevitable occurs - somebody starts trying to figure a way around Dominic's orders, so they can get out of this punishment and go back to doing something, _anything_ fun. Which was precisely what Dominic was waiting for. Michael Cleveland Gulf Coast Geotech _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2461 ********************************