in_nomine-digest Saturday, December 1 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2467 In this digest: Re: IN> The Angel of Thorns Re: IN> Ethereals (was Wish List) RE: IN> Ethereals (was Wish List) Re: IN> Ethereals (was Wish List) Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2462 IN> God's psychology Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2462 Re: IN> Wish List Re: IN> Ethereals (was Wish List) Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2462 IN> Coffee break Re: IN> Ethereals (was Wish List) Re: IN> Ethereals (was Wish List) Re: IN> Ethereals (was Wish List) Re: IN> Ethereals (was Wish List) Re: IN> Ethereals (was Wish List) Re: IN> Leilani pt 2 Re: IN> Wish List Re: IN> Wish List IN> IN Anime cover Re: IN> Wish List Re: IN> Ethereals (was Wish List) Re: IN> Humanity and Religion in In Nomine IN> Question about Synchronicity IN> Horror In Nomine IN> The Kingdom of the Dead Re: IN> Ethereals (was Wish List) IN> Soldekai Re: IN> Ethereals (was Wish List) Re: IN> Ethereals (was Wish List) Re: IN> Ethereals (was Wish List) Re: IN> Ethereals (was Wish List) Re: IN> Question about Synchronicity Re: IN> Soldekai Re: IN> Humanity and Religion in In Nomine Re: IN> Horror In Nomine IN> Instael: Persistance ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 05:07:27 +0800 From: " Cameron McCurry" Subject: Re: IN> The Angel of Thorns >>I like this one. Gotta find a use for him... Why thank you! And you just reminded me that I need to get him on my site (As well as change that ability that he has through his Word) - -- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 15:21:04 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Ethereals (was Wish List) From: "Mike Bruner" > > If Ethereals are the result of humanity's dreams, I think all of them being > "parasites" would be inaccurate. Not at all; they would need to keep their food source alive in order to continue feeding from it. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 16:34:02 -0500 From: "Brook Freeman" Subject: RE: IN> Ethereals (was Wish List) > From: "Mike Bruner" > > > > If Ethereals are the result of humanity's dreams, I think all of them > being > > "parasites" would be inaccurate. > > Not at all; they would need to keep their food source alive in order to > continue feeding from it. In RL biology this is not true. Parasites routinely kill their hosts, most often after reproducing enough to spread to more hosts. The most obvious example is any lethal disease (bacterial or viral.) Lamprey eels kill many (not all, but many) of the fish that they latch onto. Brook Freeman ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 21:42:32 +0000 From: Omentide Subject: Re: IN> Ethereals (was Wish List) > > If Ethereals are the result of humanity's dreams, I think all of them being > > "parasites" would be inaccurate. > >Not at all; they would need to keep their food source alive in order to >continue feeding from it. Not just alive but educated and willing to educate the next generation of humans. To do this yes they will take but at times they will also need to give to protect their following and their own existance. Humanity's link with etherial spirits and deities has largely been based on respect and honour. Why else leave food out overnight or pick mushrooms from a meadow but never for a Faerie ring. The relationship has always cut both ways. Ashley MIB 6660 What do you want? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 15:46:54 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2462 From: "cassandra benner" > > White Wolf doing an angels and demons game. From what I hear ,it's not going to be an angels game. The rumor I've come across most often is that it is going to be along lines similar to that of Hunter. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 16:54:02 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> God's psychology [If he had taken sides their would be no war. With that much essence and being omnipotent he could crush hell on his own. If he is on the side of heaven why does he not do this? God has AFAIK chosen not to take sides in the war.] *snort* Yeah right and that's why Demons get the shaft during Divine interventions. Very well let's draw some real world theology here for some examples of why the War isn't over with God firmly behind heaven. A:) Causalties God snaps his fingers and Hell ceases to exist. He has effectively obliterated let's have a nice round figure of 666,000,000 souls. Being as he's behind Heaven and GOOD thus this action is the most horrofying crime ever commited.... Plus denying any chance of redemption and gaurenteeing anyone who ISN'T good is merely avoiding commiting evil because he's TERRIFIED. Gee isn't that EVIL? B:) Free will Presuming God isn't like Khalid and believes that free will is something that he actually believes in then the War is mainly about CONVINCING humanity and the demons that he's right not causally arbitrating "this is this and that is that" Cosmologically speaking then God is merely taking his time convincing humanity's immortal souls that his way is best. C:) God is powerful but limited In a dualistic or polytheistic In Nomine universe you might rule God is the main big deal but even he has limits and subdividing himself into human souls etc has weakened him or perhaps he is made of essence himself and only mildly more powerful than Lucifer. I wrote a right up awhile back on God being a giant jigsaw puzzle that's self aware, whoever assembles the most coherent picture first wins. D:) God is busy 6 billion human souls who need constant reassurance, advice, and etc and he's supposed to worry about his HELPER'S little tiffe? hey can darn well work out their own problems. Admittadly this isn't even on Heaven's SIDE but it is the same purpose. E:) God is on coffee break Now that Lucifer is done with his little rebellion God has taken a brief break to rest, wake him up after Sunday. - -Charlie _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 22:09:46 +0000 From: Omentide Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2462 Hate to say this but.... An angels and demons game would suit White Wolf well. The Vamp creation myth allows this, it fits with so much material they have especially Hunter. It makes a damn sight more sense in the WoD setting than Mummy or some of the other WW products. .....but it could be really bad news for IN. I'm pretty torn about the prospect. As a Camarilla member I say cool. As a MiB I worry, and as an IN addict the last thing I want is to see is IN become even more marginalised within the gaming community. Ashley MIB 6660 What do you want? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 16:05:49 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Wish List From: > > Not that I agree with them; Sandman might have been popular, but that > doesn't, in my opinion, make it good, It became popular because it was good. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 22:07:49 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Ethereals (was Wish List) >From: Omentide >Subject: Re: IN> Ethereals (was Wish List) >Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 21:10:24 +0000 >>*blinks* >> >>a) This doesn't answer my original objection re: your theory of Heaven's >>economy -- i.e., that using human souls as either currency or as >>involuntary wealth producers is entirely antithetical to Marc's Word... >>and Marc is the guy who runs Heaven's economy. > >Sure Marc runs the economy. But what is the coin? It's definitely *not* souls, as witness the problems with Marc's Word that would cause... and this is the third time I've repeated that without acknowledgement. Money /can/ be an entirely arbitrary system of accounting, with no actual specie backing it. Witness the US paper dollar. [snip] >>Ensuring that human beings meet their Destinies and not their Fates? >>Ding! > >Precisely, and because this determines where the soul goes, to heaven or >hell. I think we ought to just adjourn the back-and-forth and wait for the canon cite -- you know, the one that backs up your theorem that angels save souls because Heaven wants the Essence. What? No cite? [snip] >>Angels are not human beings, not even human churchmen. There are no witch >>trials in Heaven -- hell, Heaven's "witch-hunter" (Dominic) *takes >>Dissonance* if he ever inflicts a punishment on a being out of proportion >>to whatever crime they are guilty of. > >Again I agree. Then your 'witch-trial' example anhihilates itself. >Angels are not human any more the demons are (one possible exception of >course). But this does not mean they care about humans. It's IN canon that angels, unless you're in a variant Dark or Backwards campaign, care about humans. Try reading the 'Opinions' section of every angelic Superior whose writeup is detailed enough to have one. Look in the section at the end under 'Humanity'. Pay especial attention to the write-ups for the current and former Commander(s) of the Host. About the only angel that doesn't care about humans, one way or the other, is Jordi -- and that's because his Word-nature specifically tells him /not/ to. But even he cares about saving souls, if not human souls. [snip] >But seriously Angels may only be able to use so much essence themselves, >but with infinite essence and AA could create infinite angels What type of material resources it takes for a Superior to create a celestial is CDaU. There are no rules that I know of that say "Essence = New Celestial". Vessels have a known Essence cost to create... the price of new celestials is *not* defined. [snip] >>Incorrect -- the whole point of demons is that they've *lost* the true >>Symphony, and follow instead only their own selfish personal symphonies >>(as well as the First Balseraph's over-riding deception). > >Demons have their personal symphony but they are still part of the >symphony, they are still celestial beings. *Everything* is 'part of' the symphony -- celestials, ethereals, corporeals, rocks, locks, stocks, and blocks. The Symphony is the Universe is God, and vice versa. However, not everything is *connected to* the Symphony... and especially not the demons. [snip] >>On the contrary, there's the perfect reason. >> >>What's the *one* thing in IN canon specifically said to possess infinite >>Essence? >> >>God. >> >>Whose side is He on? > >If he had taken sides their would be no war. With that much essence and >being omnipotent he could crush hell on his own. If he is on the side of >heaven why does he not do this? One more go-around on this and I'm going to try a Superior Invocation on the Archangel of Archives, so that she can explain to you precisely what 'Canon Doubt and Uncertainty' means. Here's a hint -- your theories re: the 'true nature' of Heaven, Hell, God, the Symphony, angels, demons, the War, and Essence collection step all over it in about N dozen separate places. >God has AFAIK chosen not to take sides in the war. Incorrect. Look up the rules for Divine Interventions -- and note that they're only good things to have happen if you're an angel. If you're a demon, they're the last thing you ever want to see. Canon. - -- Chuckg _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 17:14:12 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2462 Omentide wrote: > > Hate to say this but.... > > An angels and demons game would suit White Wolf well.[...] > ....but it could be really bad news for IN. I'm not very worried. First, there are already some other angel/demon games out there; this isn't a big increment in the competition. Second, from the web page I read, this isn't an *angel*/demon game; it's just a demon game, as befits the World of Darkness. This means that (1) it isn't quite the same genre and thus not exactly competing for the same space and (2) this may limit its popularity; last I heard, 3/4 of IN games ran angel PCs. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 22:28:13 +0000 From: Omentide Subject: IN> Coffee break >E:) God is on coffee break > >Now that Lucifer is done with his little rebellion God has taken a brief >break to rest, wake him up after Sunday. I like this. But he did kind of wake up to deal with Uriel. OK, you may not agree with my interpretation. IN can be played in many different ways, this is the beauty of IN but also what confuses many potential players who prefer things more concrete. This has always been a huge issue in why IN did not sell as well as hoped. I like playing IN real gritty, brightness middle, contrast mid point (not too sharp or too blurred), and with humans as caught between and the only beings really capable of free will. Both Heaven and Hell fighting over human souls as coin and the key to winning the war. This might not be everyones choice of how to play IN but for me it works best this way. It is also the most ideal setting for LARP which to my mind IN has needed an offical version of for some time, rather than mine and the various other home grown versions. Ashley MIB 6660 What do you want? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 16:25:46 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Ethereals (was Wish List) From: "Brook Freeman" > > > > Not at all; they would need to keep their food source alive in order to > > continue feeding from it. > > In RL biology this is not true. In RL biology beings feed on something other than essence. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 22:40:35 +0000 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Ethereals (was Wish List) >From: Omentide > >Humanity's link with etherial spirits and deities has largely been based on >respect and honour. Why else leave food out overnight or pick mushrooms >from a meadow but never for a Faerie ring. The relationship has always cut >both ways. > Based on fear, superstition, and terror of the unknown, I think you mean. jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 14:56:58 -0800 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: IN> Ethereals (was Wish List) >> > >Based on fear, superstition, and terror of the unknown, I think you mean. > > A little bit of both, really. True, people gave offerings to the "Good Folk" in order to stop them from stealing their children, poisonong their cattle, and performing other such misdeeds, but they also did it in order to gain aid and a certain kinship with them. After all, such fairies as brownies actually like humans for the most part, and will help humans if treated with respect and friendlyness. The same things with gods. Though they might fear the wrath of Demeter, they also respect her and benefit from her good will. The relationship between mortal and deity is complicated in a polytheistic religion, a combination of fear and love, distrust and respect. It is just as complicated as in a monotheistic religion. If polytheism is founded on fear, then surely the worship of a deity who demands his worshippers to be "god-fearing" certainly is. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 23:11:21 +0000 From: Omentide Subject: Re: IN> Ethereals (was Wish List) >>Humanity's link with etherial spirits and deities has largely been based on >>respect and honour. Why else leave food out overnight or pick mushrooms >>from a meadow but never for a Faerie ring. The relationship has always cut >>both ways. > >Based on fear, superstition, and terror of the unknown, I think you mean. No this is not what I mean. I have no fear or terror. I have respect of the known and treat the known with respect. And the EPG should IMHO treat the ethereals with respect just as IN does with Yah***. Ashley MIB 6660 What do you want? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 23:51:31 +0000 From: Omentide Subject: Re: IN> Ethereals (was Wish List) >I think we ought to just adjourn the back-and-forth and wait for the canon >cite -- you know, the one that backs up your theorem that angels save >souls because Heaven wants the Essence. Probably a good idea. Ultimately it's a game. Game..... Asmodeus has so much to answer for. All I'll say is that an equally balanced Heaven and Hell fighting over humans and human souls in much the same way but on a different morality appears to appeal to players. I've pushed this line over many convention games in Ireland and I happen to think is part of the reason IN sells more product in Ireland than the whole UK, despite the fact that the the entire population of Ireland is less than that of the urban area of London. Of course it could just be the bulk of MiB Ireland are really enthusiastic about IN. Take care, Ashley and Hilary omentide.omentide@virgin.net http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 19:03:50 -0500 From: "Jeffery Watkins" Subject: Re: IN> Leilani pt 2 Thanks again! You are really doing wonders for my game. Jeffery _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 16:43:53 -0600 From: toadpooka@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> Wish List On Fri, 30 Nov 2001 16:05:49 -0600 "Prodigal" writes: > From: > > > > Not that I agree with them; Sandman might have been popular, but > that doesn't, in my opinion, make it good, > > It became popular because it was good. Yeah, so did disco. From Whom It May Concern, Rich Ranallo "Rock and Roll will be the new planetary culture, believe it or not." - -Prof. Michio Kaku ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 18:22:51 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Wish List From: > > > > > > Not that I agree with them; Sandman might have been popular, but > > that doesn't, in my opinion, make it good, > > > > It became popular because it was good. > > Yeah, so did disco. If it helps you to believe that, feel free. ;) "The Sound Of Her Wings" remains one of the best comics written to date, and that is just the first issue whose title I could recall offhand. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 18:25:52 -0600 From: Andrew Hackard Subject: IN> IN Anime cover The new cover has been posted to the website. - -- Human history becomes more and more a | hackard@io.com race between education and catastrophe. | - -- H.G. Wells ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 19:36:20 -0500 From: damienw@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> Wish List On Fri, 30 Nov 2001 18:22:51 -0600 "Prodigal" writes: > If it helps you to believe that, feel free. ;) > > "The Sound Of Her Wings" remains one of the best comics written to > date, and > that is just the first issue whose title I could recall offhand. I suppose it would be remiss of me to not remind everyone to open up their main IN books and LOOK AT THE FRIGGIN BIBLIOGRAPHY. _Sandman_ is listed for a *reason*, folks... - --- damienw[et]juno.com "To kill a man between panels is to condemn him to a thousand deaths." - Scott McCloud ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 20:41:46 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Ethereals (was Wish List) Omentide wrote: > In IN the good and evil divide is between Heaven and Hell not God and > antiGod. Heaven == "God's side," Hell == "anti-God's side". - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 01:27:03 -0500 (EST) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> Humanity and Religion in In Nomine On Fri, 30 Nov 2001, Charles Phipps wrote: > In effect it's a curious bit of flavor that even 50,000,000,000 year old > Michael still enjoys kicking back with a bear I didn't know Michael had any pets... :) - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! "When nothing's funny, it gets easy to laugh at the drop of a hat - or a bomb." -- Devo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 14:49:02 -0800 From: edenesque@juno.com Subject: IN> Question about Synchronicity > > 11. "Eden Ban." No moving between planes when not at a tether > > (increases their importance dramatically and explains why they even >exist in > > the first place), means that the remaining Ethereals fight like nothing >else > > to hold onto the ones they've got (though Ethereal tethers might form a >bit > > easier than Divine or Infernal ones?) > >I REALLY liked this idea, and I think it would fit IN much better than the >current rules. No celestial ever has to lose a Force in canon - they can >just zip up to their home. This fixes that. I have to totally agree. It makes Tethers have meaning, aside from handy meeting places, places to assault, or back up. I mean, if a Superior can just send his Angels/Demons where ever he wants, then a single successful invocation can destroy the PCs. :) Michael arrives with six Masters of War. Hey, an Archangel should have an entourage, no?<<< This talk about the Eden Ban got me to thinking about a couple of Yves's Distinctions. Specifically, Synchronicity and Rite of Passage. I know the Ban is theoretical at this point, but how could one enforce it if it did become canon? Any angel with the Rite of Passage attunement could simply step into a library or a video store and transport themselves to Yves's Library or any other source of knowledge. Similarily, Synchronicity lets an angel move to wherever he or she is most needed instanteously. So how would one stop a Destinarian if one wanted to use the Ban? ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 01:25:59 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Horror In Nomine I was thinking about running In Nomine Horror and unfortunately recognized how utterly difficult that is with the present rules and simulation because presuming that you are an angel there is still the Superior and Heaven awaiting merely a 'vessel up' for you and also the fact that horror relies a great deal on mystery and humanity...and In Nomine creatures are most definately not human. Some things I've noticed... 1. Soldiers: Of course work best with the slight impression that you don't know EVERYTHING that you should. Your 'angelic' contact may be very dramatically appropriately revealed to be a Demon working for the Asmodeus and only then after he's only been three steps ahead of you enough that you were convinced he was an angel. 2. Sorcerors: Works especially well with sorcerers who have "chickened out" in the end and probably best without full sorcery. The lure of sorcery and the necessity of using demons to serve the cause of good and UGLY ethereals should be ever present. As is the temptation. 3. The Black War: Basically the Good Angel in a war where there are no good guys, your angel is cursed with an uncommon amount of humanity and perhaps your demon is. Angels should be unstoppable Christopher Walken obsessed beings and the demons should be every absolute worst thing imaginable. One thing to avoid in a horror atmosphere is the idea of Hell winning because while it might add tension the idea for the most part should be business as usual in the Earth. Another point is to definately play the villains straight. Saminga is the Grim Reaper and his stupidity if played at all instead should be played as single mindedness. After billions of years the universe's death should be a welcome release to the oppression of immortality since even Heaven offers no comfort....and Hell certainly is no better. Valefor should specialize in the unearthed of the arcane, sorcerors who steal hope, and similar seekers of power beyond their means. Kobal and It of course, no one else sees the joke in displaying humanity's worst fears and grosteque mistreatments laid bear...he does. Tricks to maintain tension for Angelic beings is the fact that one should drill home that the Earth is far from home and God and the oppression and lack of faith is endless...furtheremore the fragility of the human body even as it's best is a poor substitute for the power and freedom they once enjoyed. Thoughts? - -Charlie _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 01:54:23 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> The Kingdom of the Dead Ghost Town Some people have mistaken Saminga for a stupid being but in truth he is just single minded with a crystal clear clarity upon what he wants that it is literally hard to relate to his followers what exactly he wants from the universe. To that end Saminga turned to one of his dying tethers which was a Mining Colony in Nevada but events led to the town being mislabelled with the supplies meant to refurbish the gold 'boom' being lost along the way (helped by a Shedim of Saminga) and in a fit of starvation the locals turned on each other with brutal savagry. It would be here that Saminga gave his servitors and eventually someday the world exactly what sort of vision of the future he wished to accomplish. Letting his hand go from the town for a brief moment the town of Spectre, Nevada grew with the rediscovery of gold and the peculiar legend of the town's brutal demise added a bit of local color which was preserved in a museum around the city's cemetary that quickly became a popular tourist attraction. As the town thrived and the threat of dissonance loomed Saminga closed back his grip as the town had it's phone lines cut, it's mail re-adjusted, and it's roads destroyed with a horde of demonic vultures driving killing anyone who tried to escape in car. Over a period of seven nights the entire town was put to death with only periods of Saming's balseraphs, habbalah, and Impudites convincing the locals to murder one another in hopes that they or their families would be spared. In the end out of a town of seven hundred only twelve were spared and then only one was an adult in the town mortician. Saminga showed the young the power of Death and offered them the chance to worship him and become the leaders of the new age that was comming for mankind personally. Each he made his soldiers and taught the black arts of necromancy in an instant as they were served by their former friends, neighbors, and parents. At the end of thirteen years each was mummified and a master of his craft for the true stage of the plan to begin. Have you ever wondered what sort of being was willing to trade his immortal soul for immortality? You can imagine many I suspect but can you imagine many that can stand the aching loneliness of death forever, being an outcast? Saminga knows that such beings surrender themselves all too often to oblivion or misguided attempt at redemption or self destruction. Oblivion is not Death though it is a part of it, it is not a part Saminga craves...Saminga wants death as it is frozen in the eternal decay. What better place for the undead where it is in the company of his fellows. Spectre, NV became a place for the undead of Saminga to live amongst each other surounded only by each other and viewing the human race as the perverse abomination. The Twelve children whose Gaurdian has since been lovingly interred in the heart of the City's cemetary have cloaked also the town in an illusion that allows them even if for just a time to appear as a normal town. Mostly these vampires, sentient zombi, Lich, and ghoul wander freely in their natural forms with little care but the formulae for the undead is NOT YET perfected. Human flesh is necessary to maintain many of their forms until the rituals to change the failed vampire or even worse revenant to his proper form. Thus members of Spectre work 9 at night to five in the morning to lure men and women whose lives will be mercifully short to Spectre but will not draw undo attention even as the rest of the town works on the rituals...or indulges itself in pool or other recreation that 'normal' beings do. The illusion is not perfect as even while angels cannot pierce the powerful transformation of Light and sense the undead occasionally forget human niceties as meat that is rotted and maggot filled is served, many sleep in coffins that sleep at all, and human facts like maintaining the plumbing and bothering to look like they eat or remember important dates occur. No magazines with people are sold nearly and just enough subtle clues.... To make the moment you realize 2,000+ walking dead exist in one place with no escape in sight as Saminga's 12 disciples have developed a powerful ritual that as long as at least one exists they are able to channel their essence into a field that prevents anyone from ascending (or descending save at the Tether) The architecture is actually quite good as the amount of Gargoyle lawn ornaments, dead plants, and feel to the place is befitting Saminga's nature. - -Charlemagne _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 07:47:43 +0000 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Ethereals (was Wish List) >From: Omentide >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: Re: IN> Ethereals (was Wish List) >Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 23:11:21 +0000 > > > >>>Humanity's link with etherial spirits and deities has largely been based >>>on >>>respect and honour. Why else leave food out overnight or pick mushrooms >>>from a meadow but never for a Faerie ring. The relationship has always >>>cut >>>both ways. >> >>Based on fear, superstition, and terror of the unknown, I think you mean. > >No this is not what I mean. I have no fear or terror. I have respect of >the known and treat the known with respect. > We're not talking about you though, because you are here in the present day. We're talking about the historical roots of superstitions to do with spirits. People didn't think that brownies were friendly (maybe in Victorian times, when the legends got overhauled) -- they were fucking terrified of what the vicious little spirits might do if they weren't placated. Miners didn't throw their crusts to the knockers out of compassion, they did it because they were terrified that the spirits would bring the mineshaft crashing down. jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 00:06:52 -0800 From: "Christopher Hughes" Subject: IN> Soldekai Can anyone give me any information on Soldekai? I don't even know what book she's in, though that won't help, as I only own the core book and half the RevCycle. Just some basic info, would be greatly helpful, particularly discussing her relationship with Gabriel, as I understand that they are rather close. Thanks very much in advance! Chris et alia Oh, P.S. If you're going to give me any information that might overstep the boundaries of copyright or the listrules, just send it to me personally, thanks :-) Beth, forget you read that :-) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 03:21:24 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Ethereals (was Wish List) Omentide wrote: >>>So at the fall, when the rebels are weak.... God pumps a mass of essence into heaven. Hell can receive no such thing yet. Hell loses instantly. This did not happen. Why? I dunno. But seriously Angels may only be able to use so much essence themselves, but with infinite essence and AA could creat infinite angels and by sheer weight of numbers the war would be won.<<< The War isn't about sheer power, or Heaven would have won long ago in a frontal assault. They are concerned with winning a MORAL victory, perpetuating God's Great Experiment, allowing humanity to live up to its potential (if any) without celestial interference. Even now, Heaven could probably win an all-out, open war, and most angels probably believe God could zap Hell into oblivion if He chose. He doesn't because this would ruin any chance of seeing how humans turns out when they truly exercise their free will, sans celestial interference. > Demons have their personal symphony but they are still part of the > symphony, they are still celestial beings. Their vessel is created from > the symphony as are their forces. The nature of demons is no different > from that of angels, only the perspective, selfless or selfish determins > whether angel or demon. This is incorrect. > >>they are still made of the same stuff, a vessel for instance > >>is a vessel whether made in Heaven or Hell. There is no reason therefore > >>that if Angels or Heaven can gain essence dircetly from the symphony that > >>Demons or Hell cannot This is also incorrect. Angels are _connected_ to the Symphony, demons are detached from it. They still have some "broken" links, but it is very possible that Heaven draws Essence directly from the Symphony, while demons can only _wrench_ it by force using diabolical means. Your position that Heaven and Hell are morally equivalent and that Heaven "needs" human souls in the same way that Hell does is interesting, and one could probably bend canon around it enough to make it feasible, but it's neither the official position nor all that sensible, IMO. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 03:23:08 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Ethereals (was Wish List) Omentide wrote: > Humanity's link with etherial spirits and deities has largely been based on> respect and honour. Why else leave food out overnight or pick mushrooms> from a meadow but never for a Faerie ring. The relationship has always cut> both ways. Eh. I'm with Jo; the "respect" traditionally offered to faeries was out of fear of what faeries would do to you if you pissed them off, not because people "honored" them. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 04:24:30 -0500 From: Eric Eves Subject: Re: IN> Ethereals (was Wish List) >>And the EPG should IMHO treat the ethereals with respect just as IN does >>with Yah***. Why? God, at least in a vague nonspecific monotheim sort of sense, is really a needed genre convention for anything involving angels and demons. Not so much the ethereals. (Oh, by the way, this is my first post to the list. Hello, people.) Eric "Random Nerd" Eves ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 03:42:18 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Ethereals (was Wish List) From: "David Edelstein" > > Eh. I'm with Jo; the "respect" traditionally offered to faeries was out > of fear of what faeries would do to you if you pissed them off, not > because people "honored" them. I have to agree with both of you; they may have left milk on the doorstep, but there was something made of iron nailed above the door in the hopes that it would stop the Fair Folk from entering if the whim took them. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 04:06:24 -0600 From: toadpooka@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> Question about Synchronicity On Fri, 30 Nov 2001 14:49:02 -0800 edenesque@juno.com writes: > I know the Ban is theoretical at this point, but how could one enforce it if it > did become canon? Any angel with the Rite of Passage attunement could > simply step into a library or a video store and transport themselves to > Yves's Library or any other source of knowledge. Similarily, Synchronicity > lets an angel move to wherever he or she is most needed instanteously. So > how would one stop a Destinarian if one wanted to use the Ban? It might be good to look at it as less of a ban than a law of nature. The Destiny attunements allow one to break those rules, but if anyone were allowed to grant that power, it should be Yves. From Whom It May Concern, Rich Ranallo "Rock and Roll will be the new planetary culture, believe it or not." - -Prof. Michio Kaku ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 09:30:37 -0500 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: Re: IN> Soldekai > Can anyone give me any information on Soldekai? From http://www.incyclopedia.org/ Malakite Chamberlain of Fire Page reference: The Marches, p. 20-21, Liber Castellorum, p. 78, Superiors 1, p. 108 From what I understand, this makes him Gabriel's second in command. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 10:30:29 -0500 From: Mike Bruner Subject: Re: IN> Humanity and Religion in In Nomine At 01:27 AM 12/1/01 -0500, you wrote: >On Fri, 30 Nov 2001, Charles Phipps wrote: > > > In effect it's a curious bit of flavor that even 50,000,000,000 year old > > Michael still enjoys kicking back with a bear > >I didn't know Michael had any pets... :) Unless that's "kick back" as in "kick it after it kicks him". Somehow, I can definitely see Michael wrestling with bears for amusement. Or else he's just hanging with one of his Cherubs :). - -- Mike Bruner-- mbruner18@home.com I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me at once. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 10:33:00 -0500 From: Mike Bruner Subject: Re: IN> Horror In Nomine >Kobal and It of course, no one else sees the joke in displaying humanity's >worst fears and grosteque mistreatments laid bear...he does. First Michael, now Kobal; what is it with Superiors and bears lately? :) *goes off humming "Bear Neccessities"* - -- Mike Bruner-- mbruner18@home.com I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me at once. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 16:52:36 +0000 From: "cassandra benner" Subject: IN> Instael: Persistance (sorry of this is sent in twice) Heres a Quickie Wordbound. More to follow of this guy in a few hours. Instael Angel of Persistence (Remnant? Outcast?) Once, when Baal was an angel, he had a companion, and though not as old, the companion was just as note worthy. This companion of Baal was a servitor of blandine, and he was a cherub. Word of his deeds when the great war began were known and taught to the young angels when hell was new formed, a cherub would stand, in the tower of blandine, at her balcony, side by side with her, each mourning their loss. Once in a while, he would venture out from the tower, to the fledging mankind and work side by side with mercurians of stone, teaching the humans how to last just a little bit longer, to just hang in there and have hope. By doing this he brought blandine and David a little bit closer. Many ages passed and he finally lost hope, his word was too much for him, but when he went outcast, and soon was a remnant, he managed to keep some of his memories. His memories are warped however, he remembers Baal as a child hood friend, and he remembers blandine and David, and all the others from memories in college. He never knew it, but his word was keeping him alive. His word has some how been calling out to the symphony, calling out like an injured animal, attracting the attention of what ever celestials can hear it. Once, when he was an angel, perhaps these were his attunements. Seraphim: may roll a resonance check twice and choose which result they wish to use. Cherubim: may spend 5 minutes concentrating and not have to make a resonance check to locate their attuned. Elohim: may reroll any one dice per scene (or 10 minutes) when they are in debate with some one and are trying to make them see the point they are making. Kyriotate: when a host is reduced to 0 body hits, they may add from their own mind hits to keep them going. Malakim: Instael had no malakim, he saw them as quitters, the ones who gave up in anger and thus not worthy of his time. Mercurian: (same as seraph) Ofanim: (same as seraph) Endurance With a successful corporeal forces roll, the angel gains CD x CD extra hits for either body, mind or soul. These extra hits however will only last for CDx3 minutes. This is usable only once per day. Perseverance shall show the way For each 5 minutes of calm concentration, the TN for the next one roll they make is modified by +1. Fools rush in With a successful contested willpower roll, the angel can make its enemy rush in to attack (or what ever) and have a negative modifier equal to the angel’s celestial forces to the first rounds actions. Dissonance If any angel in the service of Instael gives up hope, or encourages others to give up hope, they will earn a note of dissonance. Instael used to punish his dissonant servitors very hard, to teach them a lesson. Til another time, Cas In Nomine @ http://www.angelfire.com/goth/psyber/i-n.html In Nomine yahoo @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/inveritas ADnD forum @ http://www.drunkendwarfinn.co.uk ADnD stuff @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ADandD_Stuff _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2467 ********************************