in_nomine-digest Friday, December 7 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2476 In this digest: IN> Makatiel #4 IN> Demon of Hackers Re: IN> A New Soul in Heaven (fiction) IN> Demon of Hackers Re: IN> A New Soul in Heaven (fiction) IN> Word Bound to a Plural Noun vs. a Verb: Angel/Demon of [Hackers|Hacking] IN> Whence Uriel? Re: IN> Demon of Hackers Re: IN> Demon of Hackers IN> School picture day Re: IN> School picture day Re: IN> "GANGWAY!!!!!" Re: IN> Dark Destiny... yeah that's right, not Victory :) Re: IN> Question about Resonances and Attunements Re: IN> School picture day Re: IN> Dark Destiny... yeah that's right, not Victory :) Re: IN> Dark Destiny... yeah that's right, not Victory :) Re: IN> Demon of Hackers Re: IN> Customer Feedback? (was: Ethereals (was Wish List)) Re: IN> Customer Feedback? (was: Ethereals (was Wish List)) Re: IN> Dark Destiny... yeah that's right, not Victory :) Re: IN> Whence Uriel? Re: IN> Customer Feedback (OT) Re: IN> Whence Uriel? Re: IN> Whence Uriel? Re: IN> School picture day Re: IN> School picture day Re: IN> School picture day Re: IN> Whence Uriel? Re: IN> Corp. Revulsion (was: Time for a 2nd Edition?) Names (was Re: IN> Whence Uriel?) Re: Names (was Re: IN> Whence Uriel?) Re: Names (was Re: IN> Whence Uriel?) Re: Names (was Re: IN> Whence Uriel?) Re: IN> New players wanted for PBEM Re: Names (was Re: IN> Whence Uriel?) Re: Names (was Re: IN> Whence Uriel?) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 05:51:05 -0600 From: "Cthulhu" Subject: IN> Makatiel #4 Final part here ... those interested might also want to check out my Wendigo writeup from last Spring for a Minor Choir serving this Prince. Hope that some of you enjoyed this. - --- Distinctions Knight of Fevers For the cost of 2 Essence, a Knight of Disease may remove the natural healing ability of any mortal creature. A Strength roll may be made to resist this. From then on, the victim will not heal lost Body Hits by any means short of the Corporeal Song of Healing. A succesful invocation of that Song with a CD of 6, or a Divine Intervention on a Medicine roll will completly overcome this power. If the target of this power should die as a result of injuries sustained, then they disturb the Symphony as though killed by a Celestial. This will overwhelm those protected by a Djinn of Disease, though the effects will not become apperant until that attunement is broken. It will not work on anyone possessed by a Kyriotate or Shedite. Captain of Contagions With a Will roll, Makatiel's Captains can "boost" an existing mundane disease in a person. It becomes only slightly more virulant, but it's cycle is halved and damage caused is *doubled*. The boosted disease can still be cured by conventional medicine, but requires a CD of 4 or higher. Baron of Plagues As the Capatin power, but now the disease's damage is *tripled*, and it's term is doubled. It requires a Medicine roll with a CD of 5+, or the Corpoeal Song of Healing, to cure this. Relations Makatiel has not become Allied with any other Prince, as their strange delusions simply make dealing with them to awkward. However, he does work rather well with Belial and Baal, who both loathe Heaven as much as he does, and Mariel, who he sees as useful for the "deconstruction" phase of his plans. Malphas regards Makatiel as a handy way to destroy communities created by David, and so has peaceful relations with his camp, though they are by no means close. Once Saminga rose to power, it seemed likely that he would be a strong ally of the genocidal Prince of Disease, but that has simply not happened. No-one knows why, but some suspect it to be tied to the "Saminga-served-Makatiel" rumour. Makatiel has nothing but contempt for the apathetic Meserach, being something of a proactive Archangel as he is, but his true vitriol is reserved for Lilith. He has absolutely no delusions about her nature - she was one of the three humans chosen for the Eden experiment, and she failed. There are only two reasons for Makatiel not launching an all-out attack on Lilith. Firstly, Lucifer is favouring the human, but Makatiel is sure that will not last. Secondly, Lilith's demonic creations, the Lilim, have proven themselves useful to Makatiel, and he intends to get a good stock of them in before he destroys her. Those few Lilim who have serious fallings out with "Mother" can be assured a place in Disease's ranks, if only to spite her. In the end, he intends to see her dead along with the rest of her pathetic race. Asmodeus and Makatiel maintain distant but cordial relations, as very few of Disease's servitors go Renegade, and Asmodeus has an awful lot to keep him busy at the best of times. However, when the extent of the Prince of Disease's plans began to be realised, Asmodeus grew more and more concerned, until he finally shifted to being Makatiel's Enemy. Very shortly after this, he and Dominic got together for their little chat. Allied: No one Associated: Mariel, Belial, Baal (Malphas, Beleth and Belial are Associated with Makatiel) Neutral: Saminga, Malphas, Asmodeus Hostile: Meserach Enemies: Lilith Basic Rites * Bring disease to an otherwise pristine an health area * Destroy or desecrate a place of healing, or kill a healer (+2) Chance of Invocation: 3 Invocation Modifiers +1 A Rat +2 A plague-carrier +3 A flagalant +4 A corpse of someone killed because they were sick +5 A dying town +6 An city wiped out by plague Questions, comments, flames? Cthulhu _____________________________________________ Free email with personality! Over 200 domains! http://www.MyOwnEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 14:54:43 -0000 From: "Adam Benedict Canning" Subject: IN> Demon of Hackers > Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 23:04:51 +0000 > From: "Jo Hart" > > >From: "Rolland Therrien" > >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > >To: > > > >I assumed there was already a Demon of Hackers, a former Shedite of > >Technology, now working for Kobal, Prince of Dark Humor. > I mean, let's > >face > >it, most Hackers who go online mostly do it out of a > desire to spread chaos > >over the Internet for their own perverse Amusement. > > Yeah. I'd guess Theft, I think. There's that lunatic > "Because I _can_" sense > behind it. I don't imagine Vapula is any happier about him > than Jean or Orc. Typically Vapulan, then. Vapula gives the impression that because I can is the entire reason for breaking the laws of physics and good sense in the pursuit of a technological objective. I'm not sure Vapula likes his minions, more tolerates them for their utility and the demon of hackers is the one who will keep the labs computers up come what may. Or become the experimental celestial core for Vapula's latest attempt at a Nybas Machine. Adam - -- 'Black Azrael and Ariel and Ammon on the wing, Giants and the Genii, Multiplex of wing and eye, Whose strong obedience broke the sky, When Solomon was king.' ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 10:00:15 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> A New Soul in Heaven (fiction) Very nice. Thank you. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:23:03 -0500 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: IN> Demon of Hackers Just thought of the perfect kind of demon for a Demon of Hackers... A Free Lillim. I mean, who else would have the rough Individualistic streak to want to hack into computers to spread mayhem, showing loyalty to few other people as they do? Plus, such a Demon would fit my favorite fictional Hacker so well... ^^ Mouse Free Lillim Demon of Hackers Corp: 5 Str 8 Agl: 12 Body: 40 Eth: 6 Int:12 Pre: 12 Mind: 72 Cele: 5 Will: 10 Per: 10 Soul: 50 Skills: Comp. Op/7, Hacking/6, Detect Lies/5, Electronics/3, Emote/4, Fast-Talk/6, Fighting/3, Large Weapon (Katana)/4, Lockpicking/4, Lying/5, Area Knowledge (Internet)/5, Knowledge (Hacker Underworld/4, Business Politics/3, International Politics/3), Tactics (Hacking)/4, Tracking (Internet)/5. Songs: Artifacts (all/2), Charm (all/4), Form (Eth/3 Cel/5), Light (all/4), Machines (all/5), NC Horns/3, NC Fangs/6, Possession/5, Projection (all/5), Shields (corp/3), Tongues (corp/2, cele/3) Attunements and Distinctions: Lillim of War, Lillim of Dark Humor, Lillim of Fate, Lillim of Factions, Lillim of Theft, Lillim of Technology, Art of Combat, Humanity, Imbroglio, Passage (applied to locked systems), Prank, Subliminal. Rites: - -Spend 1H encouraging people to resist the Government and Question Authority - -Destroy a mortal enemy of freedom Socially. (+3) - -Prevent someone from achieving his destiny - -Spend three hours watching television - -Steal 200$ worth of material goods (or information) "Information wants to be free, Sir. Who better then a Free Lillim to help it do so?" "In this ever-changing Symphony, things are always changing... Governements rise and fall, economies fluctuate all willy-nillie, and fads come and go... But Information is forever. In a world where nothing's Certain, Information's the only currency of any real worth. Is it any wonder the "Powers that Be" are always in control of Information? You think the "Proud and Noble" Military wants you to know they've tested biological weapons on their own soldiers? Think the Corporations want you to know how they jack up prices to make a profit? Think that Senator wants you to know about his Affairs?" "Ain't no surprise God's so "Inneffable"... Whoever controls the most Information controls the most Symphony. But then, that's what this whole Rebellion thing was about, wasn't it? Grilling God for all the info, sharing it with everyone... Freedom from God's law, for all Celestials." "Hackers are just another proud group of descendant from the Tradition of the Rebellion... Individuals with the will and the way to swipe information from those who control it, who thumb their noses at authority, turn the Enemy on itself and generally create Chaos out of Order. They fight for Freedom just by their very existance." "And Heaven's "classification" of Hackers is a false one: All Hackers are the same. They're all motivated by a desire to match their wits with The System, to discypher computer codes and control them, to prove they're better then "The Man"... Any cause they claim to uphold's just an excuse for their desire to prove themselves." "I understand that Need of theirs... So I've been helping them along, ever since the first few Hackers got started... Cute Kids, they were. Cute Kids who're now lodged firmly in the System... Many of them still owe me favors I haven't collected. I get inside information, backdoors into systems, code keys, Hacker secrets... I've collected so much information, I dunno what to do with it all... So I started trading that Information for favors here in Hell. Lotsa Princes use my information... You'd be surprised to know who. Some of the ones who like it best show their "generosity" the best way they know how." "So I heard about this "Competition" concerning the word of Hackers, and I just think "Hold on there... I've been working on that word for a while now, why should some upstart who knows how to find the "Any Key" swipe that word away from me? I still had favors a'comin' from some of the services I've done them over the years. So I asked for their patronage for the word of Hackers..." "...And that's why I now come to you, Milord... Word-giving's your Province, I know... And I figured if I explained the situation to you, you'd see what I mean..." "Information wants to be Free... After all... Isn't Freedom what what you started the Rebellion for?" Mouse (Successfully sweet-talking the word of Hackers out of Lucifer...) - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 16:08:06 +0100 From: "Donato Ranzato" Subject: Re: IN> A New Soul in Heaven (fiction) From: "Vaughn Romero" > * * * A NEW SOUL IN HEAVEN * * * > The first thing I remember is the sound. It was like a light breeze on a > warm day, a sound that tickled and teased my awareness but stayed just out > of reach. Its presence was comforting, a soothing song of water over rocks, > of wind rushing through leaves, and rain wetting earth. I can't tell you how > long I listened to it, but while I listened I knew joy unlike any I had > known before. A great story, thanks! Will it be continued? Donato ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 10:45:30 -0500 From: "Robb Kidd" Subject: IN> Word Bound to a Plural Noun vs. a Verb: Angel/Demon of [Hackers|Hacking] Does the Word mean more if it is about the People Who Do X as opposed to a Word that is just X? I suppose it might since, depending on your view, the War is ultimately about people. It's just that since Words are conceptual, the verb sort jives better (in my mind) than the plural noun. Especially after reading today's Angel of Hackers and seeing most of the paragraphs opening with "To hack ...". ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 10:51:02 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> Whence Uriel? Michael and Gabriel first appear in the book of Danial. Raphael appears in the book of Tobit. Can anyone tell me where Uriel first appears? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 16:14:10 +0000 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Demon of Hackers >From: "Rolland Therrien" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: "In Nomine Mailing List" >Subject: IN> Demon of Hackers >Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:23:03 -0500 > >Just thought of the perfect kind of demon for a Demon of Hackers... > >A Free Lillim. I mean, who else would have the rough Individualistic >streak to want to hack into computers to spread mayhem, showing loyalty to >few other people as they do? > Any Calabite would do that :) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 16:18:20 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Demon of Hackers >From: "Jo Hart" >Subject: Re: IN> Demon of Hackers >Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 16:14:10 +0000 [snip] >Any Calabite would do that :) Any Calabite with enough attention span to learn computers would be an enthusiastic cracker, all right. Breaking in and trashing things is just their speed. Chaos and destruction. Entropy increases. - -- Chuckg _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 11:20:07 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> School picture day In today's "Rose Is Rose" comic, (http://www.unitedmedia.com/comics/roseisrose/index.html) the little boy stumbles out of bed, to his dresser, where his guardian angel solemnly hands him his clothes. In the last panel, Rose looks down at him, sedately clad in black pants, white shirt, and tie, and says, "Thanh Heaven you didn't choose polka dots with plaids for school picture day!" All this time, I thought that angel was a cherub, but maybe he's a Mercurian... Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 16:30:48 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> School picture day >From: Earl Wajenberg >Subject: IN> School picture day >Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 11:20:07 -0500 >All this time, I thought that angel was a cherub, but maybe he's >a Mercurian... Honestly, I'm thinking that the kid's guardian angel is a Superior... he's just able to do too much. Of course, that makes you just what kind of Destiny Pasquale is packing... - -- Chuckg _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 08:39:33 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> "GANGWAY!!!!!" - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > > Kyrio Tag > The Great Race BWAHAHAHAHAHA! This is perfect for a convention one-shot! ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "A lot of comedy is tragedy plus time." -- Carol Burnett __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 08:42:05 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Dark Destiny... yeah that's right, not Victory :) - --- toadpooka@juno.com wrote: > Have you people all read the sample Destinies and Fates > in the back of > Liber Servitorum? it's not in front of me, but for > example, on sample > Destiny was to kill twelve people in their sleep. I get > the idea that > not all Destinies are "happy" ones. In the case of that specific example, I'd say it depends on who those 12 people were. Killing 12 Hellsworn in their sleep? Definitely a Destiny. Killing 12 terminal patients who would otherwise be left to linger in agony for years? I can see that, too. Killing 12 innocent children in their sleep? I'd have to call that a Fate. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "A lot of comedy is tragedy plus time." -- Carol Burnett __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 08:45:55 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Question about Resonances and Attunements - --- Donato Ranzato wrote: > Another question is about the Divine Logic attunement of > Yves. A player in > my group wants this attunement but I've read that some > gamesmasters have a > problem with this attunement as it gives a kind of > pseudo-Balseraph ability > to an Angel. Have gamesmasters encountered problems with > this attunement? > And, if so, how have they solved it? To control this Attunement, remember Yves' Dissonance condition. If the angel leads a person toward his or her Fate -- _knowingly or not_ -- the angel gets Dissonance. Also remember that the angel must sincerely believe whatever (s)he wants to convince the other person of; Divine Logic doesn't work as a substitute for Fast-talk. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "A lot of comedy is tragedy plus time." -- Carol Burnett __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 16:54:55 +0000 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> School picture day That angel acts like a Cherub, but when he's in celestial form he looks like a Malakite. Regarding his fashion sense, there's no rule that says another Choir *can't* have it (or that a Malakite can't be protective, for example), just because it's the default condition for one particular Choir. Janet Anderson * * * * And they shall rebuild the old ruins, They shall raise up the former desolations, And they shall repair the ruined cities ... Isaiah 61:4 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 08:59:07 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Dark Destiny... yeah that's right, not Victory :) - --- Perry Lloyd wrote: > To rule with an iron fist, I > thought that just meant to rule while maintaining a > stranglehold on all those who might oppose you. That's the minimal requirement, certainly. But history gives us very few examples of such restraint; most dictators use their power on the general populace, not just their enemies. > Quite frankly, this isn't very necessary if you keep the > masses happy with > enough cable-satellite (sp?) TV, food, sports and maybe a > War to give them a common enemy. Ah, yes, the American system. 0:> > And can't a benevolant dictator rule with an iron fist as > well? Nah -- that's ruling with a velvet glove. Though it could easily conceal an iron fist... ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "A lot of comedy is tragedy plus time." -- Carol Burnett __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 09:02:16 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Dark Destiny... yeah that's right, not Victory :) - --- Earl Wajenberg wrote: > Maybe her destiny is to pull the human race > together to successfully weather a terrible crisis, and > weathering > it will NOT be pleasant for anyone. If she doesn't > achieve it, > though, the outcome is still markedly LESS pleasant. In which case her Destiny would be to unite the Human race so that the species can survive a terrible crisis. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "A lot of comedy is tragedy plus time." -- Carol Burnett __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 12:39:32 -0500 From: "Robb Kidd" Subject: Re: IN> Demon of Hackers Charles Glasgow wrote: > Any Calabite with enough attention span to learn computers would be an > enthusiastic cracker, all right. Breaking in and trashing things is just > their speed. Chaos and destruction. Entropy increases. They'd be murder on their keyboards, though. Have to buy (or swipe) a box of Happy Hacking(tm)[1] keyboards every other week or so. [1] http://www.pfuca.com/products/hhkb/hhkbindex.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 17:46:11 +0000 From: Omentide Subject: Re: IN> Customer Feedback? (was: Ethereals (was Wish List)) >A simple questionairre to the WoD fans about what they're hoping to see in >Demon: the Fallen might be a good way to do some information gathering . . . From various WoD lists I am on. The comments about Demon: the Fallen mostly seem to amount to why and statements that we already have In Nomine. Ashley MIB 6660 What do you want? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 17:46:39 +0000 From: Omentide Subject: Re: IN> Customer Feedback? (was: Ethereals (was Wish List)) >Maybe -- but how does one manage to sneak the poll onto WW's site, and >thence back to SJGames.com...? O;> You could try using Camarilla sites since they are not officially owned by WW. Some contacts high up in the Cam would help facilitate this. Ashley MIB 6660 What do you want? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 17:45:21 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Dark Destiny... yeah that's right, not Victory :) >From: Michael Walton >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: Re: IN> Dark Destiny... yeah that's right, not Victory :) >Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 08:59:07 -0800 (PST) >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [199.170.88.15] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBDDA40AF009D400431DDC7AA580F566B0; Fri, 07 Dec 2001 09:00:59 -0800 >Received: (from majordom@localhost)by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id >KAA15548for in_nomine-l-outgoing; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 10:59:38 -0600 >Received: from web14602.mail.yahoo.com (web14602.mail.yahoo.com >[216.136.224.82])by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) with SMTP id KAA15544for >; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 10:59:36 -0600 >Received: from [64.12.103.44] by web14602.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 07 >Dec 2001 08:59:07 PST >From owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Fri, 07 Dec 2001 09:02:09 -0800 >Message-ID: <20011207165907.25963.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com> >In-Reply-To: >Sender: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Precedence: bulk > > >--- Perry Lloyd wrote: > > To rule with an iron fist, I > > thought that just meant to rule while maintaining a > > stranglehold on all those who might oppose you. > > That's the minimal requirement, certainly. But history >gives us very few examples of such restraint; most >dictators use their power on the general populace, not just >their enemies. > > > Quite frankly, this isn't very necessary if you keep the > > masses happy with > > enough cable-satellite (sp?) TV, food, sports and maybe a > > War to give them a common enemy. > > Ah, yes, the American system. 0:> shhhh . . .you can't let them know! That might encourage . . . dissent against the Media and "Freedom" . . . we can't have that, you know. > > And can't a benevolant dictator rule with an iron fist as > > well? > > Nah -- that's ruling with a velvet glove. Though it >could easily conceal an iron fist... - -bowing- but of course. - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________ Téléchargez MSN Explorer gratuitement à l'adresse http://explorer.msn.fr/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 12:41:37 -0500 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Whence Uriel? > Can anyone tell me where Uriel first appears? Could have sworn it was the Book ofg Enoch. - -- Casca "Many people hear voices when no-one is there. Some of them are called mad and are shut up in rooms where they stare at the walls all day. Others are called writers and they do pretty much the same thing." --Margaret Chittenden, writer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 17:46:40 +0000 From: "cassandra benner" Subject: Re: IN> Customer Feedback (OT) I can get stuff from the UKM, UK masqurade players in england. Sorry its so off topic. But i think all the feed back that can got should be got. SJG may have their avenues of enquiry, but i think the players should play more of a part in the games structure at times. Other wise we get a product that we just dont want or that has little relevance to us. Til another time, Cas In Nomine @ http://www.angelfire.com/goth/psyber/i-n.html In Nomine yahoo @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/inveritas ADnD forum @ http://www.drunkendwarfinn.co.uk ADnD stuff @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ADandD_Stuff _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 17:52:51 +0000 From: "cassandra benner" Subject: Re: IN> Whence Uriel? http://www.catholic.org/robin-tmp/saints/archangl.html It was indeed the book of enoch, according to the bible site. Til another time, Cas In Nomine @ http://www.angelfire.com/goth/psyber/i-n.html In Nomine yahoo @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/inveritas ADnD forum @ http://www.drunkendwarfinn.co.uk ADnD stuff @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ADandD_Stuff _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 13:11:33 -0500 From: "Robb Kidd" Subject: Re: IN> Whence Uriel? Eric Bertish wrote: >>Can anyone tell me where Uriel first appears? > Could have sworn it was the Book of Enoch. Well, most folks know of him from Enoch, but *first* appears? Phew. Uriel's all over the place, especially when some of the non-canonical texts start declaring Uriel is Puruel, Jehoel, Israfel and other. He's got a convoluted, murky history for being the Fire of God. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 02:18:02 +0800 From: Manny Nepomuceno Subject: Re: IN> School picture day Hey, >>All this time, I thought that angel was a cherub, but maybe he's >>a Mercurian... > >Honestly, I'm thinking that the kid's guardian angel is a Superior... he's >just able to do too much. > >Of course, that makes you just what kind of Destiny Pasquale is packing... Superior...hmmm. I've been leaning towards Cherub Master of Destiny with the Mercurian (or Malakite, depending on the strip) resonance, myself. But Superior...that's an interesting perspective. ;) Manny Neps http://www.geocities.com/angeloffools ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 18:15:49 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> School picture day >From: "Janet Anderson" >Subject: Re: IN> School picture day >Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 16:54:55 +0000 >That angel acts like a Cherub, but when he's in celestial form he looks >like a Malakite. > >Regarding his fashion sense, there's no rule that says another Choir >*can't* have it (or that a Malakite can't be protective, for example), just >because it's the default condition for one particular Choir. Re: the protectiveness -- well, any Malakite serving Zadkiel is, quite obviously, protective. Re: the fashion sense -- Curtis, Malakite Master of the Armies of God and Angel of Etiquette comes to mind... yes, fashion sense isn't the primary focus of his Word, but it is part of etiquette to know what is and is not proper attire for a given occasion. Besides, his Sup1 writeup makes it quite plain that Curtis is always fashionably dressed, and wouldn't be caught dead making a faux pas of any sort. (1) - -- Chuckg (1) Of course, sometimes it's necessary to start a brawl under your host's roof -- after all, "Letting a demon continue to live is a greater violation of Heavenly etiquette than making a mess on the carpet." _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 18:31:13 +0000 From: "R L" Subject: Re: IN> School picture day >All this time, I thought that angel was a cherub, but maybe he's >a Mercurian... I'd probably go for a mercurian who is seriously into this family. They are peoples peopl..eh angels you know. Ron _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 13:47:55 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Whence Uriel? Robb Kidd wrote: > Well, most folks know of him from Enoch, but *first* appears? Phew. Yeah. According to the Catholic Encyclopedia entry given by Jon McDermott (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01602a.htm), the Ethiopic book of Enoch was written in the 1st or 2nd century BC, was widely used by the Church Fathers, but fell out of favor and essentially disappeared around the 4th century AD, and a complete manuscript wasn't found until the 18th century. Uriel, on the other hand, was striken from the calendar of saints in the 8th century. He might have been introduced to traditional angel-lore in Enoch and then circulated independently even after the book fell out of sight. On further web-surfing, that's what the Catholic Encyclopedia suggests. (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01476d.htm) Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 15:16:49 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Corp. Revulsion (was: Time for a 2nd Edition?) At 11:41 PM -0600 12/6/01, Prodigal wrote: >From: "Perry Lloyd" >> > >>>Which makes me wonder: If the levitating garden gnome vessels propelled >>>themselves into an opponent, would that fall under the "no ranged >>>weapons" part of Stone's dissonance conditions? >> >> not again! > >No, I think this actually is an angle we haven't already covered on this >question. ;) If the gnome is propelling _itself_, then it comes under the header of using NC: Wings or just jumping down on someone. But the fight still has to have been started. If it is _being propelled_ by a Stonie, then the propelling Stonie will become dissonant. Yeesh. Now _I_ feel like propelling garden gnomes....... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 15:08:25 -0500 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Names (was Re: IN> Whence Uriel?) > Uriel's all over the place, especially when some of the non-canonical > texts start declaring Uriel is Puruel, Jehoel, Israfel and other. He's > got a convoluted, murky history for being the Fire of God. This brings up something interesting, Robb (have a cookie): Why is "Fire of God" the AA of Purity? Shouldn't he be AA of Fire? For that matter, Gabriel means "Warrior of God", the position ascribed to Michael in IN, whereas "Who is like God" sounds more Destiny-ish to me. Does this bug anyone else, or am I just being overly picky? - -- Casca "Many people hear voices when no-one is there. Some of them are called mad and are shut up in rooms where they stare at the walls all day. Others are called writers and they do pretty much the same thing." --Margaret Chittenden, writer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 15:47:41 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: Names (was Re: IN> Whence Uriel?) Eric Bertish wrote: > This brings up something interesting, Robb (have a cookie): Why is > "Fire of God" the AA of Purity? Shouldn't he be AA of Fire? Yes. Though fire is a common image of purification. He could have combined them as Novalis did flowers and peace. > For that matter, Gabriel means "Warrior of God", the position > ascribed to Michael in IN, whereas "Who is like God" sounds more > Destiny-ish to me. > > Does this bug anyone else, or am I just being overly picky? I've also seen "Gabriel" translated as "Strength of God" and "Man of God," so it need not be a warlike name. Michael's association with war is traditional, in that he appears in Revelation, having a war in heaven with Satan. I've heard his name described as a war-cry for monotheism. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 15:48:49 -0500 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: Names (was Re: IN> Whence Uriel?) >> Uriel's all over the place, especially when some of the non-canonical >> texts start declaring Uriel is Puruel, Jehoel, Israfel and other. He's >> got a convoluted, murky history for being the Fire of God. > >This brings up something interesting, Robb (have a cookie): Why is "Fire of >God" the AA of Purity? Shouldn't he be AA of Fire? > >For that matter, Gabriel means "Warrior of God", the position ascribed to >Michael in IN, whereas "Who is like God" sounds more Destiny-ish to me. > >Does this bug anyone else, or am I just being overly picky? > >-- Casca snip I'm going to have to go with picky... Okay, if you want to reason it out: Uriel: the "fire of God" is used to burn out corruption, or 'purify'. Gabriel: Remember, before Belial started inflicting eternal soul-searing agony, she was God's prophet initially and served as the fire of inspiration. Michael: Became the warrior after Lucifer rebelled, and while others seem to believe that Michael is some corrupted, war-mongering, vigilante of heaven, I think he embodies his name of "He-who-is-like-God" far more than it appears. Yves: He-who-is-like-God or He-who-is-God? Just some twisted bits of logic from Dept. of Heretical Canon, Josh Moger ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 13:25:33 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Burzelic Subject: Re: Names (was Re: IN> Whence Uriel?) - --- Eric Bertish wrote: > > Uriel's all over the place, especially when some > of the non-canonical > > texts start declaring Uriel is Puruel, Jehoel, > Israfel and other. He's > > got a convoluted, murky history for being the Fire > of God. > > This brings up something interesting, Robb (have a > cookie): Why is "Fire of > God" the AA of Purity? Shouldn't he be AA of Fire? > > For that matter, Gabriel means "Warrior of God", the > position ascribed to > Michael in IN, whereas "Who is like God" sounds more > Destiny-ish to me. > > Does this bug anyone else, or am I just being overly > picky? > Maybe this is just proof about the truth in Yves' story in the beginning of the APG. Uriel, Gabriel, Michael, and Yves all just being much closer to the center, possibly just manifestations of the same whole split to the point where they seem like individuals. Jim __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 15:39:54 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> New players wanted for PBEM - --- Janet Anderson wrote: > My PBEM is having what you might call "staffing > difficulties" and I am > looking for two or three more players. Sorry, no can do. The baby came home today and my time is trickling away even as we speak. In fact, I'm about to drop off the face of the Earth (well, off of posting status, anyway) for a while. Y'all behave while I'm gone. }:;:> ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "A lot of comedy is tragedy plus time." -- Carol Burnett __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 17:51:56 -0500 (EST) From: Ryan M Roth Subject: Re: Names (was Re: IN> Whence Uriel?) On Fri, 7 Dec 2001, Eric Bertish wrote: > For that matter, Gabriel means "Warrior of God", the position ascribed to > Michael in IN, whereas "Who is like God" sounds more Destiny-ish to me. > > Does this bug anyone else, or am I just being overly picky? > I believe Michael is also refered to as St. Michael, the patron saint of warriors. "Who is like God" can be take as a description, identifying Michael as being aligned with the 'all-powerful' aspect of God, or, "Who is like God?" can be taken as a question, a direct challenge to all beings who think to highly of themselves -- "Think you are godlike? Then come over here and let _me_ test you." But I'll let others more well-versed in these subjects take up your questions. Ryan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 14:50:20 -0800 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: Names (was Re: IN> Whence Uriel?) >This brings up something interesting, Robb (have a cookie): Why is "Fire of >God" the AA of Purity? Shouldn't he be AA of Fire? His name can be translated as either "Fire of God" or "Light of God." In fact, Milton makes Uriel the regent of the sun. He represents the purifying light which reveals all lies and corruption for what they are. > >For that matter, Gabriel means "Warrior of God", the position ascribed to >Michael in IN, whereas "Who is like God" sounds more Destiny-ish to me. > Gabriel's name can also mean "Strength of God." Traditionally, Michael is the great warrior (in Revelations, he is the one who defeats Satan after all). However, Milton placed Gabriel as the second most martial angel. Traditionally, she is the proxy of God, both as a messenger and as the agent of his wrath (she appeared to Mary to predict the birth of Christ, but also struck down Sodom and Gomorrah). She could be seen as the personal warrior of God, as opposed to the patron of warriors in general. Michael might be called "Who is like God" since he is the first-born and mightiest of God's servants. In the end, In Nomine bases its prominent angels on those of Judeo-Christian lore (or Muslim in the case of Israfel), and chooses to interpret them in that manner. So if the names don't match perfectly, it's more the fault of the theologins than SJG. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2476 ********************************