in_nomine-digest Sunday, December 9 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2477 In this digest: Re: IN> A New Soul in Heaven (fiction) Re: Names (was Re: IN> Whence Uriel?) Re: Names (was Re: IN> Whence Uriel?) IN> Re: A New Soul in Heaven (fiction) IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2475 IN> Re: Demon of Hackers Re: IN> Re: Demon of Hackers Re: IN> A New Soul in Heaven (fiction) IN> Resisting and Contests Re: Names (was Re: IN> Whence Uriel?) IN> The Redeemers IN> A New Soul in Heaven 2 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 19:42:13 -0800 From: Vaughn Romero Subject: Re: IN> A New Soul in Heaven (fiction) "Donato Ranzato" wrote: > A great story, thanks! I'm glad you enjoyed it. Us 90% lurkers, 10% posters need all the praise we can get. I gotta buy off that discord shy/3, it's really hampering my artistic output. > Will it be continued? Yes. I rather like the idea of following a newbie around and seeing the world through his eyes. Well, that and I want to write up a particular philosophical rant and see how the canon world deals with it. However, since I'm not Moe "Post-10K-a-day" Lane, bear with me as my writing muscles are out of shape. Still playing in the IN fiction kiddie pool, Vaughn - - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - "Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities. Truth isn't." Mark Twain ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 04:13:20 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: Names (was Re: IN> Whence Uriel?) >This brings up something interesting, Robb (have a cookie): Why is "Fire of >God" the AA of Purity? Shouldn't he be AA of Fire? Probably. Except tha Gabriel is the AA of Fire in the original game. Georges, AA of Purification is the Uriel equivalent in the French game (though he may have gone as Uriel at one time). >For that matter, Gabriel means "Warrior of God", the position ascribed to >Michael in IN, whereas "Who is like God" sounds more Destiny-ish to me. > >Does this bug anyone else, or am I just being overly picky? Well, Yves used to be a called Mikael according to Liber Angelis (insmv) . . .. - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________ Téléchargez MSN Explorer gratuitement à l'adresse http://explorer.msn.fr/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 04:27:36 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: Names (was Re: IN> Whence Uriel?) >Probably. Except that Gabriel is the AA of Fire in the original game. >Georges, AA of Purification is the Uriel equivalent in the French game >(though he may have gone as Uriel at one time). No, I'm wrong here the's list from Encyclopedia Spiritis: then (now) Samael (Lucifer) Gabriel (Gabriel) Uriel (Jordi) Raphael (Kronos) [and you wondered where Kronos *really* from?] Sariel (Dominique) Raguel (Andromalius [Asmodeus in IN]) Michel, AA of War is the European game's equivalent of IN's Michael, but the original game, Michel was born human, a viking warrior, who converted, died, was made an Angel and then an Archangel. Mikael (Yves) kicked Lucifer's ass out of Heaven after the Fall. >>For that matter, Gabriel means "Warrior of God", the position ascribed to >>Michael in IN, whereas "Who is like God" sounds more Destiny-ish to me. >> >>Does this bug anyone else, or am I just being overly picky? > >Well, Yves /used/ to be a called Mikael according to Liber Angelis (insmv) >. . >. sorry, not the Liber Angelis, Encyclopedia Spiritis. - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________ Téléchargez MSN Explorer gratuitement à l'adresse http://explorer.msn.fr/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 00:32:56 -0500 From: "Jonathan 'Caraig' McDermott" Subject: IN> Re: A New Soul in Heaven (fiction) >Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 00:13:37 -0800 >From: Vaughn Romero >Subject: IN> A New Soul in Heaven (fiction) Wonderful! An excellent job, Sir, and a great read! Thank you! - --- ============================================================ Jonathan McDermott http:\\caraig.home.mindspring.com - ------------------------------------------------------------ "And now I feel that... feel that I've been there. I didn't need this. Can somebody help me breathe?" - Nickelback, "Breathe" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 00:36:14 -0500 From: "Jonathan 'Caraig' McDermott" Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2475 >Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 23:53:46 >From: "Perry Lloyd" >Subject: Re: IN> Re: The Sentence >Excellent, I stand corrected! Thanks for the kewl linx! > >- -Perry You're very welcome, my pleasure! =) Cheers - --- ============================================================ Jonathan McDermott http:\\caraig.home.mindspring.com - ------------------------------------------------------------ "And now I feel that... feel that I've been there. I didn't need this. Can somebody help me breathe?" - Nickelback, "Breathe" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 00:46:41 -0500 From: "Jonathan 'Caraig' McDermott" Subject: IN> Re: Demon of Hackers >Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:23:03 -0500 >From: "Rolland Therrien" >Subject: IN> Demon of Hackers >Mouse >Free Lillim Demon of Hackers That could work well! =) The name fits, too. And if she were actually 'mousy' (a not unattractive look, mind you!) to throw off the stereotype of all Lilim being drop-dead-gorgeous redheaded Italian cooks.... =) Sigh, choosing between this, and that wonderful contest for the Word of Hackers.... Which to choose, which to choose? =) - --- ============================================================ Jonathan McDermott http:\\caraig.home.mindspring.com - ------------------------------------------------------------ "And now I feel that... feel that I've been there. I didn't need this. Can somebody help me breathe?" - Nickelback, "Breathe" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 09:19:39 +0000 From: "R L" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Demon of Hackers >>Mouse >Sigh, choosing between this, and that wonderful contest for the Word of >Hackers.... Which to choose, which to choose? =) Choose both. Have the contest and let her win..eventually. Or... Let the word be the kind of thing that is tested for regularily, and that somehow, she is so fare the only surviving party to keep the word for any length of time. :) Ron _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 10:48:24 From: "Michael Cleveland" Subject: Re: IN> A New Soul in Heaven (fiction) > >* * * A NEW SOUL IN HEAVEN * * * (snipped) Excellent work! Absolutely loved it. Hope to see more coming. Michael Cleveland Gulf Coast Geotech _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 14:27:04 -0000 From: "Stephen McIlvenna" Subject: IN> Resisting and Contests Apologies is there is a published answer somewhere, but I haven't been able to find it. When a resistance roll is allowed to avoid a celestial power is their a standard rule for deciding if is a Contest is invoked or the target simply has to make their resistance roll? Liber Canticorum does a good job clarifying this for Songs (specifying if resistance negates the Song or requires a Contest with the Song's performer), but I can't find clarification for several demonic resonances. Balseraph resonance is clearly negated by a successful resistance roll with no Contest (p. 142). Habbalah resonance would seem to be negated by a sucessful resonance - with a backlash if the victim happens to get a higher check digit (p. 147). But what about others - particularly Calabim and Impudites? Thanks for any answers, Stephen http://www.btinternet.com/~s.mci/innomine/inindex.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 19:38:14 -0000 From: "Genevieve Cogman" Subject: Re: Names (was Re: IN> Whence Uriel?) - -----Original Message----- From: Perry Lloyd To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: 08 December 2001 04:28 Subject: Re: Names (was Re: IN> Whence Uriel?) >Mikael (Yves) kicked Lucifer's ass out of Heaven after the Fall. For what it's worth, if I remember rightly, it was actually the French Gabriel who did the kicking, temporarily disguised as Yves (I forget precisely why) and with a big flaming sword. This was before the whole Islam thing, the duel with Laurent, the loss of memory, and so on, mind. Genevieve Cogman ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 15:15:02 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> The Redeemers (I haven't written anything for a while, but this has been sitting on my hard drive for a while, so I finally got around to finishing it up and posting it.) The Redeemers By David Edelstein, © 2001; permission granted to copy and distribute freely as long as credit is given One of the things lacking in In Nomine is reasons for Servitors serving different Superiors to work together, except on temporary assignments. A creative GM can always find a reason to throw a group together, but there doesn't seem to be any natural reason why "favored" Servitors of different Archangels/Demon Princes would work together. What is needed is a few more organizations that transcend Superior affiliation. The organization below, the Redeemers, is one such organization for Heaven. Not all angelic PCs are suitable to be Redeemers, of course, but even if this doesn't help you get a group of PCs together, the Redeemers can also generate interesting encounters and plot seeds, for both angelic and infernal characters. [History] [Joining the Order] [Organization] [Diabolical Classification] [Archangels and the Order] [NPCs] History Ever since the Fall, there has been a slow trickle of demons who wanted to come home. Some are Fallen who've realized they made a mistake, others are born in Hell and have never seen the Light of Heaven, but long for it all the same. Heaven has always been willing to accept its prodigal children back. Even the most militant and unforgiving Archangels welcome truly repentant diabolicals who redeem into their service. But for millenia, the process of redemption was disorganized and informal. A demon who wanted redemption would have to first work up the nerve to actively seek it (after being raised on infernal propaganda describing the horrible fate awaiting any demon foolish enough to want to join the angels), avoid being discovered by his comrades, somehow find an angel, and persuade the angel not to kill him. Then the angel, who probably knew little about redemption himself, would have to figure out what to do with this would-be fellow angel. The demon might be lying. He's probably not nearly selfless enough to redeem even if he really wants to. And the angel had to protect the demon, both from other diabolicals and from skeptical Malakim, while still trying to carry out his other duties, until he could turn the penitent over to a higher authority. Given obstacles like this, successful redemptions have always been very, very rare -- usually less than one per year. But many angels believed that this number could be increased if Heaven did a better of job of finding and helping potential redemption candidates. ***************************************************** "How many diabolicals have experienced, however briefly, a moment of doubt and soul-searching? How many have been touched by the Holy Spirit and known that they were on the wrong side? And how many of these damned souls who might have been brought home were lost to us, because we weren't there to nurture their natural yearnings for the Light of Heaven? We have to ask ourselves how many of our lost brethren remain consigned to the Pit, simply because of inaction on our part." -- Idrael, Vassal of War, before the Seraphim Council ***************************************************** The first spokesman for this movement was Idrael, a Cherub of War who briefly came into contact with a demon seeking help in redeeming. Idrael had to attend to other responsibilities first, and by the time he was able to go looking for the demon, the Game had already been and gone -- dragging the would-be redemption candidate with them back to Hell. Feeling a personal sense of failure, Idrael went back to Heaven to pray and work off his dissonance. Then the Cherub sought out other angels who had had similar experiences, and was surprised to find many. Almost every veteran of Earthly service could recall meeting at least one demon who didn't seem that bad, a demon who under other circumstances might have been an angel. Idrael began researching redemptions, and was surprised to learn that most Archangels had no procedure in place to handle potential redemption candidates. More importantly, there was no concerted effort by Heaven to seek out demons who wanted to redeem. Idrael petitioned Michael for permission to try to organize a "diabolical outreach" program. Michael was lukewarm to the idea, but saw some potential value in it, and gave his assent. Idrael started talking to Servitors of other Archangels, and found a sufficiently large number who liked the idea that soon every Archangel had heard of this new "movement" in Heaven. The Seraphim Council summoned Idrael to explain himself. Idrael responded eagerly -- he was surprised and dismayed to learn that the idea of committing resources to helping diabolicals redeem was not universally applauded. ***************************************************** "Of course we will offer all possible encouragement to any diabolicals who truly seek redemption. All of Heaven rejoices when one of our Fallen brothers returns to the fold. "But we must remember that every diabolical has made a choice. They choose to serve Hell, and they must choose to serve Heaven, and the responsibility for redemption is on their shoulders. Shall we help the few who seek redemption? Certainly. But we are hard-pressed on all fronts of the War, and when we speak of an angel spending time trying to save demons, we must also consider how many mortal souls might be lost, that that angel could have saved. While angels cajole a demon who has already made his choice, hoping that this diabolical might be the one in a million who can be turned, other demons are winning souls for Hell. I do not say that 'reaching out' to demons is a waste of time. But I say that it is an inefficient use of time, and that mankind needs and deserves our help more than the Fallen do. I say that a diabolical soul is not worth a human soul; indeed, I say that ten diabolical souls are not worth one human soul! Unlike humans, demons know how to get to Heaven if they really want to. The path is there for them, and clearly marked, if they wish to follow it; we need not assign angels to carry or drag them." -- Laeth, Elohite Master of Law, before the Seraphim Council ***************************************************** Although several Archangels felt as Laeth did, the consensus was that there should be at least some coordination and concerted efforts regarding demons seeking redemption. Every Archangel agreed to cooperate (some grudgingly), but no one felt that the job of redemption should be turned over to a single Archangel. Thus, the Redeemers were formed -- a Heavenly Order made up of angels serving various Superiors. Although Michael suggested putting Idrael in charge of the group, the Cherub declined, admitting that he doubted he would be a good administrator, and expressing a desire to remain in the field. Dominic was wary from the beginning, of course, and demanded on having a great deal of oversight over the Redeemers. Rather than resisting, the Redeemers wholeheartedly accepted scrutiny from Judgment (reasoning that they would probably be more successful with Inquisition's approval than without it), and eventually nominated one of Dominic's own Servitors to lead the Order. The Redeemers have been active for a few decades now. In that time, the number of redemptions has increased, though not by a large margin, and it is not clear how much credit the Redeemers can claim. Nonetheless, several notable successes have been enough to convince the Seraphim Council that their work is worthwhile . . . for now. (For the rest of the article, go to http://www.amadan.org/Innomine/Redeemers.html, 'cause it's way too long to post in its entirety here!) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 00:27:05 -0800 From: Vaughn Romero Subject: IN> A New Soul in Heaven 2 As promised here is a second installment. I still haven't gotten to the scene that originally spawned this story idea, but I'm not sure how much interest there is in a continuing tale of "Gee, Heaven isn't what I expected at all." I welcome opinions either way. I guess I could add a few Lilim-in-Leather scenes to spice things up, but there are probably better writers for that. And if any of said better writers like this idea and want to run with it, be my guest. P.S. Anyone else notice that plot and a 10k limit do necessarily go hand in hand? - --Vaughn * * * A NEW SOUL IN HEAVEN 2 * * * I entered Heaven in much the same way I had entered the world eighty- five years before: naked, scared, and crying. Tears of desperation, joy, and relief ran from my eyes and reduced my world to a watery blur, masking the multitude of kind hands that guided me deeper into my new home. "Welcome to Heaven, blessed one," I formed the words again and again in my mind, switching between the language of my former life and the music of the angel's song. More of the musical tongue rolled over me like a wave, asking if I was alright, asking me my name, asking what I would like to do and see. I closed my eyes to squeeze the tears from my eyes and felt the drops fall from my cheek taking the weight of my doubt with it. I had entered Heaven. I had not been cast out. I had not been damned for my lack of faith in God. "What do I do now?" I asked to no one in particular. "That is entirely up to you, Mason" said a rich male voice in English. I opened my eyes to look at the source of the voice. Before me stood what had to be an angel: a handsome man in robes with white wings visibly folded behind his back and a golden white halo over his head. The angel was watching me, holding out his left hand and offering me a handkerchief. I suddenly felt very foolish blubbering in the street with an angel watching over me. "I suppose I'm a bit surprised to be here," I said as I took the handkerchief and wiped the tears from my eyes. "I wasn't sure I'd pass the test," my voice cracked with a weak laugh. The angel gave me a knowing grin like he heard this same line a thousand times before. "We get all those who achieve their destiny - it is our mission - and your being here is no mistake. As hard as it may be for you to believe it, you have earned your place in Heaven." The angel's words resonated with an authority of truth I had never heard on Earth. "But how did I get here? What did I do to achieve my ... destiny?" Somehow the word felt new to me here, as if I had never really known the meaning of the word until this moment. "I do not know the particulars of your destiny. If it is important to you, I can take you to an angel at the Library who can answer your question. It is not far from where we are now." I looked around the street searching for something to make sense. A library. Somewhere here there was a library with an angel who could tell me how my doubting soul had earned eternal paradise. "I would like that very much... angel?" I looked at the angel awkwardly hoping I was not offending him with the title. "You may call me Dabiel. The Library is but a short flight from here. If you will permit me to carry you, we can arrive there in minutes." My mind slowly pieced together the implications of the words flight and carry. On Earth I had always been afraid of heights, but I had nonetheless managed to enjoy flying in airplanes. Dabiel's proposition was at once thrilling and terrifying. "I don't mind a walk. It's not like I'm in any rush..." Dabiel gave me another knowing grin that told me he had heard this particular protest many times before. "You are in Heaven now, Mason, and no longer mortal. You have nothing to fear from flying, and I will not let you fall." Dabiel extended his left hand to me and winked. "Trust me, the view is like nothing you have ever seen in your life." My eyes drifted upward and I counted the numerous flying things in the sky. To my surprise, not all of the things had wings. "Let's do it." * * * The city of Heaven defied all earthly explanation. In appearance it stretched as far as the eye could see, a seemingly endless supply of avenues, plazas, parks, bazaars, and churches stretched out before me in every direction. Yet unlike a city on Earth, none of these wonders were crowded together and despite the incredible scale of some of them, it never took more than moments to pass what should have taken hours. My mind struggled to reconcile the inconsistency of our movement and our progress. Dabiel's wings beat almost lazily, yet we were obviously moving quickly. Stranger still was the utter lack of discomfort I felt. My weight did not seem to burden Dabiel at all, nor did I ever feel the grip of gravity trying to pull me down or the sudden pull of momentum tug at my stomach. "How do we move like this?" I called up to Dabiel with a voice louder than I had intended. There was no rush of air to pull my words of away. "We're not in Kansas anymore, Todo." Dabiel's voice was playful. "Just try to enjoy the ride. You will not always have an angel to taxi you about." As we raised higher into the air I could see more of the Heavenly city. No matter where I looked parts of it stretched to the horizon. Straining to see the limits of the city, I had a sudden thought: everything is so clear here - there must be no smog in Heaven. On its heel's another thought followed: if Heaven has a horizon, then it must not be flat. At least something around here was familiar. * * * The angels standing before the doors of the Library had black wings like those I had seen over the Gates. Up close I could now see that each of them wore a set of necklaces about their necks. As I examined the angels, the pair sang a greeting to Dabiel and then eyed me quickly assessing something. "You should not leave him unattended so early, Dabiel. Perhaps a Guardian would be in order?" The singing language of the angels was a mystery. How could I understand it? "I will see that one of our brothers watches him, Virtue. His soul burns with questions that only the Library can answer." "A guardian?" I inquired of Dabiel. "A title for one of our choirs, Mason. A Guardian is an angel whose purpose is to watch over and protect the things that Heaven values. You have nothing to fear, it is a quite common for new souls to have a Cherub attune to them." Dabiel led me within the Library as he talked. "A Cherub? One of the babies with wings?" Dabiel shook his head with laughter. Several angels sitting around tables must have also heard my question for they too smiled with amusement. "Some things are lost in the translation between Heaven and Earth and the popular image of Cherubim is most certainly one of them. No, Mason, A Cherub is something quite different. You will see for yourself in a moment." Still laughing under his breath, Dabiel led me deeper into the Library. Walking through the book-lined walls was both familiar and comforting. We climbed a set of stairs to a higher level and then walked to what looked very much like an Information desk. "Friend of Sages, this soul has need to consult the book of Destiny." Dabiel addressed his song to the winged serpent hovering behind the desk. Two of six eyes lifted from reading a book and looked at Dabiel and then me. Returning his gaze to my guide, the serpent addressed Dabiel "Is that wise Friend of Man? Humans are not always pleased to learn of paths missed and choices unmade." The serpent's song was hushed but easily heard in the serenity of the Library. "I think it would put this soul at ease to know that his beliefs have value in Heaven." "Ah yes, another human struggling with the divine religions. Has he no family or friends to guide him?" The serpent's question awakened powerful memories. Faces lost and forgotten suddenly flashed within my mind. "I do not know, Most Holy." I addressed the serpent directly using the title I had heard the alien-angel use at the Gate. The serpent lifted all six eyes to look at me, his gaze searching for and finding some hidden message in my words. "You doubted your own worthiness, and now extend this doubt to those you love. Yours is a common and regrettable human condition. Dabiel may be right, perhaps the truth of your destiny will allow you to accept your place here and seek those you hold dear. I shall return with the necessary information. Wait here." The serpent silently glided into the air and flew deep within the stacks leaving me to ponder its disturbingly accurate analysis. After several silent moments Dabiel interrupted my thoughts, "Mason, When the Seraph returns, I shall go and find you a suitable Guardian. You have much to learn in the time ahead, but my duties will soon take me elsewhere. Should you have need of me, you may inquire with any angel of the Library and word will reach me." "Thank you, Dabiel. You have been most kind to me." My angelic care- taker nodded in acknowledgement, and perhaps sensing my mood stepped back to give me some space to myself. In the silence of the Library my thoughts drifted back to those I had known throughout my life. Would my family be waiting for me somewhere? How many of my friends were here for me to find? How had they handled this new world that at once confirmed and denied much of what I had held as truth? Had they too wished desperately that this place came with an instruction manual? Some movement brought me back to see the Seraph-serpent returning with a scroll floating before him. "I have copied the details of your destiny to this scroll. May you find what you are looking for, blessed one." The feeling that came over me then was one that I had not felt since I was a child. It had been countless ages ago since I'd had a report card, but this one was a long time coming and carried with it so many answers - and questions. Opening the scroll I scanned the contents expecting the worst, bracing myself for a near failing grade. I was surprised. "Well, I guess I could say I got a few A's, but I don't supposed there's retest?" Dabiel smiled. His brother angel the Seraph gave me what I later learned was a who-can-ever-understand-humans? look. I treasure the memory of both reactions to this very day. - - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - "Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities. Truth isn't." Mark Twain ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2477 ********************************