in_nomine-digest Friday, December 21 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2490 In this digest: Re: IN> And me not knowing any software engineers... Re: IN> A different Claus [part 2] IN> They Are Very Much Like Us: Part 2 RE: IN> What the Superiors did at the LOTR screening (SPOILERS) Re: IN> Dark Destiny... yeah that's right, not Victory :) Re: IN> A different Claus [part 2] Re: IN> A different Claus [part 2] Re: IN> A different Claus [part 2] Re: IN> A different Claus [part 2] Re: IN> Really, I quite like VO4 Re: IN> A different Claus [part 2] Re: IN> A different Claus [part 2] IN> New Choir -- Arelim, The Valiant Re: IN> A different Claus [part 2] SPOILERS? {was: RE: IN> What the Superiors did at the LOTR screening (SPOILERS)} Re: IN> Dark Destiny... yeah that's right, not Victory :) Re: IN> New Choir -- Arelim, The Valiant Re: IN> A different Claus [part 2] IN> Triad (restricted) - The Whispers IN> They Are Very Much Like Us: Part 3 Re: IN> The Redeemers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 11:28:49 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> And me not knowing any software engineers... Maurice Lane wrote: > It lacks the purity and clarity of ultraviolence in > public places, and you wouldn't be able to play a > female with huge polygons, slit skirts and a > high-kicking ability, but I could see the fun in > this.* Well, there you go -- what this game really needs to ensure popularity is Lilim. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 12:52:25 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> A different Claus [part 2] A very nice translation of St. Nicholas into IN. I appreciate all the historical details. If you want any more, you might note that St. Nicholas, besides being a patron saint of children, is also patron of sailors, bakers, and pawn-brokers. (Those three golden balls represent the bags of gold he chucked into the socks of those three poor- but-honest maidens.) Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 19:07:54 +0000 From: "Jonathan Walton" Subject: IN> They Are Very Much Like Us: Part 2 Ah, yes. The conspiracy grows deeper still... They Are Very Much Like Us Part 2: The Ethereal Perspective At first, the sudden appearance of YHWH didn't surprise the denizens of the Marches. In those early days, humanity had just discovered religion, something far different from animism and other primitive spiritualities. It was the time of god-building and new spirits were continually spawning. That the Semitic people, who were relatively few in number, had a faith strong enough to empower their own diety? Well, it was surprising but not completely unheard of. The details may also have been somewhat odd, yes. It was very unusual for an Ethereal to appear, fully formed, completely out of nowhere. Normally, new spirits started out weak and grew slowly stronger, but there was some precedent for a quick "growth spurt" in some cases. Still, the fact that Jehovah arrived complete with an entourage of lesser spirits? That was almost unheard of. Stranger yet, mere centuries after the Judaic Pantheon emerged, the Fall divided the newcomers into two opposing camps. Normally, this would be crippling to a young assemblage of deities, but the gods of the Jews only seemed to grow stronger. Even in those days, many Ethereals denounced the twin factions of Adonai and the Adversary. Of course, these charges stemmed mostly from jealousy, as the upstarts grew fat on the essence of their worshippers. But that was not all. Many gods expressed concern about the extreme methods of Heaven and Hell, methods (at least according to the testimonies of some) that were completely beyond the pale. However, the other Ethereals were essentially vampires as well, and so opposing the actions of the Judaic Pantheon would be like the pot calling the kettle black. Despite the similarities, a line was drawn between the Jewish spirits and the rest of the Ethereal world. Initially, the barrier was simply a mental one, built out of the disgust, resentment, envy, and moral indignation of the Ethereals, who now considered the "Celestials" (a sarcastic epithet if there ever was one) to be of a different breed. Later on, the Host and Infernals, who had always had a superiority complex anyway, made the barrier physical. The Purity Crusade was a walk in the park compared to The Culling. Uriel was knee-high to a grasshopper's nightmare then and Michael was the Commander of God's Armies. Needless to say, it was not pretty. The thing was, it should never have been possible. That a minor Pantheon could slaughter half the population of the Marches? What had been "unheard of" had now become the unthinkable. The execution squads of Heaven and Hell were relentless. Lucifer and Baal, watching the Host carve out a section of the Ethereal Plane for themselves, quickly took advantage of the situation, following suit. The worst of the carnage took place in the Vale. Angel clashed with demon while any Ethereals caught between were crushed mercilessly. Beleth and Blandine's Towers became makeshift hospitals as the wounded from both sides were dragged back from the battle lines. In the end, the two factions of "Celestials" built a shaky truce, agreeing to focus on the real threat, the Ethereal spirits. Drawing a imaginary line down the center of the Marches, Michael and Baal fell back to clearing out their portion of the terrain. By the time The Culling was over, the central regions of the Ethereal Plane were entirely in the hand of Heaven and Hell. What few deities survived the onslaught retreated to the Far Marches. Any new spirits that formed did likewise or were quickly destroyed. And then the Celestials transcended. Even now, no one is sure how they did it. What's even stranger is the fact that they did it _together_. The Host and the Infernals, who, by all accounts, despised each other, somehow teamed up to create the Celestial Plane? It seemed the Judaic gods never ran out of surprises. The twin towers of the Vale served as a focal point, channeling and magnifying the powers of the chief deities. Half of the Marches appeared to shift sideways, creating a pocket dimension linked to the Ethereal Plane only at the Cathedrals of Fear and Dreams. All in all, it was a dazzling display of power. If doubts remained about the "Celestials," if anyone still considered them to be pumped-up Ethereal spirits, the creation of their own realm dispelled all doubts. The Celestials were another breed entirely. However, this in itself raised some interesting questions. Was it possible that the Ethereals had been wrong about the Judaic gods from the very beginning? Was it possible that they had never been Ethereals at all, that they were not, in fact, born from the dreams of mankind? Just who was this god called God? - ----- Human perspective still to come. Later. Jonathan Angel of the InNominatti P.S. Bevan, if you still want a copy of part one, just email me. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 19:11:36 +0000 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: RE: IN> What the Superiors did at the LOTR screening (SPOILERS) PLEASE respect the spoiler warnings if you're going to do this. (Not on the storyline because I'm sure everyone knows that, but stuff on the visuals is something people might not want to know before they see it) >From: "Brook Freeman" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: >Subject: RE: IN> What the Superiors did at the LOTR screening (SPOILERS) >Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 11:01:12 -0500 > > > Daisy -- "I loved the hobbits! They were just so cutesy-wutesy > > and roundy > > and cuddlesome! But there wasn't enough singing! Didn't that > > nice cartoon > > version have lots of happy singing?" > >ok I have to ask DP Daisy of ?? is there a write up somewhere? > > >Brook _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 16:27:38 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Dark Destiny... yeah that's right, not Victory :) At 7:08 AM -0800 12/10/01, Michael Walton wrote: >--- toadpooka@juno.com wrote: >> If the sample Destiny given did say "kill >> 12 Hellsworn in their sleep," I'd side with you, but this >> was "kill 12 PEOPLE." That's basically anyone. > > I'd chalk that one up to a mistake of writing and/or >editing (sorry, Beth!). That really should've been more specific. No. It shouldn't have been more specific. It was that ambigious for a _reason_. Also note that at least one destiny is replicated in the fate column. Is it "just any ol' 12 people" that need to be killed to achieve destiny? Probably not. Is the angel in question _necessarly_ going to get the details on which 12 need to be offed? Only if the GM wants that model for Divine Destiny/Fated Future. Or maybe the person is a psychopath who will, upon taking its 12th victim, satisfy the weird braintwist and snap to sanity -- and, in repentance, somehow turn around and aid the world far more than he/she harmed it. The list is supposed to have a few dodgy destinies and fates. It's not a bug, it's a feature. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 15:03:16 -0800 From: "Phillip Des Jardins" Subject: Re: IN> A different Claus [part 2] > Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus... And he kicks Demon @$$... > > -Exit the LoneWolf > Okay, this I like. It's interesting to see a break from the usual IN standpoint of '9 times out of 10, human history and human fables are because of humans'. Now I need to think of other figures that could do with a second look. Phillip, the Happy Shiny Mercurian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 17:58:58 -0600 From: "DevilzOwn" Subject: Re: IN> A different Claus [part 2] Technically speaking, six is not the upper limit of forces. The Gamemaster's book states that superiors should have 30 total forces minimum and 21 word forces as minimum for a superior level word. The 6 force rule seems to be a guideline more for player characters and not a hard and fast rule of the symphony. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 19:16:29 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> A different Claus [part 2] At 5:58 PM -0600 12/20/01, DevilzOwn wrote: >Technically speaking, six is not the upper limit of forces. 6 is the upper limit for each realm of Forces, but _NOT_ Word-Forces (if you are using those). Therefore, Superiors have more than 6 in Word-Forces, but -- if you are using the "regular Forces" model from the GMG, instead of one of the more abstract ones which presume that Superiors kind of transcend Forces anyway -- they'd be limited to 6 Celestial Forces, 6 Ethereal Forces, and 6 Corporeal Forces... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 19:33:23 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> A different Claus [part 2] DevilzOwn wrote: > > Technically speaking, six is not the upper limit of forces. The Gamemaster's> book states that superiors should have 30 total forces minimum and 21 word> forces as minimum for a superior level word. That's not correct. The GMG states that whether or not Superiors can exceed 6 Forces in a realm, or whether they should be quantified at all, is a GM decision, and will not be made part of the official rules. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 21:55:46 -0500 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Really, I quite like VO4 All players, in my VO4 campaign, respect the warning and don't read this. From: "Maurice Lane" > *Sorry: I never react well to those guys at the best > of times, and even less now that I've discovered that > Casca - bless his twisted, nasty mind - is using my > Wild Hunt writeup (from Blackwing Novalis) as yet > another way to make my PC's life interesting. :) There are few things as beautiful as the slow, damning realization that a player has sown the seeds of his PC's doom. It's even better when I have hardcopy source material.... To be fair, though, it's not *all* Moe's work. It's been spliced into Em Dresner's wondrously dysfunctional Cult of Uriel, then set on Theologial Frappe for my campaign. So instead of viciously insane Tsayadim, we have viciously insane and religiously motivated Tsayadim worshipping a false god, coming into opposition with the new celestial faith of Eli-as-Messiah (currently named Elianism, but I'm trying to find one I like better), and maybe kicking off the Second Fall as the two beliefs declare each other heretical and start massacring each other in the name of their Archangel saviors. - -- Casca "Many people hear voices when no-one is there. Some of them are called mad and are shut up in rooms where they stare at the walls all day. Others are called writers and they do pretty much the same thing." --Margaret Chittenden, writer ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 23:32:23 -0600 From: "DevilzOwn" Subject: Re: IN> A different Claus [part 2] While this is true, it also does open the door for having more than six forces which was my entire point. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Edelstein" To: Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 7:33 PM Subject: Re: IN> A different Claus [part 2] > DevilzOwn wrote: > > > > Technically speaking, six is not the upper limit of forces. The Gamemaster's> book states that superiors should have 30 total forces minimum and 21 word> forces as minimum for a superior level word. > > That's not correct. The GMG states that whether or not Superiors can > exceed 6 Forces in a realm, or whether they should be quantified at all, > is a GM decision, and will not be made part of the official rules. > > -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 03:21:47 -0500 (EST) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> A different Claus [part 2] On Thu, 20 Dec 2001, DevilzOwn wrote: > While this is true, it also does open the door for having more than six > forces which was my entire point. If you're a Superior, yes. - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! "Now, am I expected to trot off into bovine obedience by your manly swagger, or just MOO?" -- Portnoy, _Bloom County_ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 21:57:58 -0600 From: "Erich S. Arendall" Subject: IN> New Choir -- Arelim, The Valiant I was playing around with ideas for a story one night when I created a character who also happended to be an angel. After searching through multiple angel references I found what I was looking for. Then I figured, "hey, it's a choir, why not incorporate it not only into my fiction, but into In Nomine as well?" Why not, indeed. Without further hesitation or intro text... Arelim The Valiant "Fall, damn you! Fall!" Zane felt the bullets strike his body as the Hellsworn on the other end of the gun pulled the trigger without hesitation or mercy. He knew that his corporeal form could little more. "I am not damned, and though you may slay my body I will never Fall," he said through gritted teeth. Let the man who served demons think on that and pray for repentance before retribution was brought on him. In a day when where political correctness rule and the best way to end a disagreement is by agreeing the Arelim stick out like a sore thumb. They were created when man was at war constantly and the War itself was still being fought, not locked in an endless stalemate. The Valiant seek action, passion and blood and they won't stop until they get some. Even if it's their own. For them, "do or do not," is not just a quote, it is a creed, it is their lifeblood. RESONANCE An Arelim's resonance is for valiance, a strength of mind or spirit that enables a person to encounter danger with firmness. Their connection with they Symphony allows them to withstand more than any other angels of the same stature. An Arelim does not quit until he has been put down. And once he can get back up, his aggressor should watch his own. Their doggedness and bloody-mindedness, especially when it comes to battle, put them on ill footing with the generally more political Mercurian. Even a Malakite has stepped back and whistled in awe of this small choir's ability to take more than they can dish out. DISSONANCE It is dissonant for one of the Valiant to quit or give up. On anything. Arelim will argue until they've won or the other gives up, they will fight (often dirty) until dead, and once they've accepted a challenge, they will persevere until the challenge is gone one way or another. Arelim gain dissonance by quitting any task they've begun. Because of this, they are not known for volunteering for a task they know they can not handle. MANNER AND APPEARANCE In their celestial forms, Arelim look like a tongue of white fire, and emit a mild phosphoric heat that refuses to die out. No matter what shape an Arelim takes, he will never appear soft. Instead, the Arelim seem to cultivate a hard-boiled and tough appearance, even if their vessel is that of a butterfly. In every realm the Valiant are obstinate, but they aren't stupid. They're very careful about what they choose to do, and sometimes come across as aloof as they walk the wire of do or do not. They're fond of competition and trials. Not all of them concentrate solely in the arts martial or the physical, either. Many prefer to focus on the battlefields of debate, survival and, with the advent of computers, the digital realm. They are the of power chords the Symphony, relentless and non-stop. GAME MECHANICS Arelim have the ability to take a hit and keep on coming. On a successful resonance roll (using Will not Perception) the angel will gain CD additional Forces (up to a total of 6) worth of Hits for the realm he is in for a number of minutes equal to his Celestial Forces. The Arelim's ties to the Symphony do not give them extra Forces, only the Hits those Forces would bring. Once the minutes of an Arelim's resonance have passed the extra "partial" Forces will vanish, and the damage they have taken will spread through them, multiple times. Some of the unwise Arelim find themselves with less Forces they had as a Reliever from time to time. CHOIR ATTUNEMENT When Michael puts an Arelim on earth, he wants that angel to stay there. For this reason, all Arelim are granted a level 6 vessel, helping to insure that they won't be leaving the corporeal realm any time soon -- unless by choice. ...---... Erich S. Arendall http://www.egrigor.com/ Egrigor | One monkey. Infinite typewriters. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 04:37:12 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> A different Claus [part 2] At 11:32 PM 12/20/01 -0600, you wrote: >While this is true, it also does open the door for having more than six >forces which was my entire point. Not in canon material, which I believe was the others' entire point. In In Nomine canon, 6 Forces in any area is the maximum. Going beyond that violates canon, and it is unlikely in the extreme that any character bearing statistics beyond that will ever be published in the future. More to the point, any character bearing statistics beyond that immediately turns any game containing him into a non-canon variant. Hm. - -EDG who likes the word "canon" tonight for some reason. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 08:44:05 -0500 From: "Brook Freeman" Subject: SPOILERS? {was: RE: IN> What the Superiors did at the LOTR screening (SPOILERS)} > PLEASE respect the spoiler warnings if you're going to do this. > (Not on the storyline because I'm sure everyone knows that, but stuff on the > visuals is something people might not want to know before they see it) Ok... I'm confused. To the best of my knowledge I quoted no spoilers from the original. Yes there is a description of hobbits, but I assume everyone knows what hobbits look like. There is a comment about 'not enough singing' but then I think (after reading her write up) that Daisy would there wasn't enough singing in Little Mermaid either. If I had quoted Belial, Alaemon or Laurence, I *might* be able to see how the descriptions in those could be seen as visual spoilers. I am new to this list, but not to netiquette in general. Could someone please explain to me what I did wrong? Brook Freeman P.S. After reading Daisy's write up I must say you are twisted Moe, Twisted, twisted, twisted. (I also laughed lots as the IN: Paranoia) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 05:44:24 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Dark Destiny... yeah that's right, not Victory :) - --- Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Is it "just any ol' 12 people" that need to be killed to > achieve > destiny? Probably not. Is the angel in question > _necessarly_ going > to get the details on which 12 need to be offed? Only if > the GM wants > that model for Divine Destiny/Fated Future. Ahhhh... comprehension dawns. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "A lot of comedy is tragedy plus time." -- Carol Burnett __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 05:54:09 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> New Choir -- Arelim, The Valiant - --- "Erich S. Arendall" wrote: > Arelim > The Valiant Wow, you went completely 180 degrees from where I took this (I'll post my version as soon as I get my computer working again -- of course it went down before I backed up that file). I see a lot of munchkin potential in these guys, but that's an original Resonance. I rather like their Choir Attunement, too, but I don't think I'd give them a Vessel/6 (too powerful for something that a Warrior could purchase for 5 CP, IMO). Maybe some additional points that can only be spent on a Vessel, perhaps (9 seems reasonable to me). ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "A lot of comedy is tragedy plus time." -- Carol Burnett __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 08:51:46 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> A different Claus [part 2] DevilzOwn wrote: > > While this is true, it also does open the door for having more than six> forces which was my entire point. Whatever you might have intended your point to be, what you SAID was that the GMG officially endorses more than 6 Forces for Superiors, and even states how many they "should" have. This is incorrect. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 16:58:32 From: "Michael Cleveland" Subject: IN> Triad (restricted) - The Whispers "Go Away." "Please, just tell us -" "No." "Aw, come on..." "No." "You can let us in on it -" "Don't you children have hellsworn to go napalm or something?" "What are they like?" "Stop asking me that question." "There's no law against asking questions, Ju - "I'll _find_ one. Go away." "Please?!" Judge Starkariel turned to face the group of young Warriors that had been following him from his weekly lunch with Trainer Alberich. He shook his head quietly, and then launched himself into one of the lower branches of the trees surrounding him. After wrapping his tail tightly around it, he swung down and looked at the 'children'. "I've tried explaining to you all the concepts of 'obstruction of Judgment', 'annoyance of Judgment', 'none of your business' and yet you still persist in asking me about 'The Whispers'. Am I correct in assuming that you are going to continue bothering me about this until I tell you something substantive?" Upon watching the collective nod, Stark sighed heavily. "All right... you children are warriors, so you've been taught about security clearances, correct? You understand that they're for keeping the enemy from potentially learning damaging information. We're clear on this, right?" After another group of nods, he continued. "Ok, good. Now, somewhere inside the Celestial Tribunal, there is a group of files that talks about the group of people that you call 'The Whispers'. They require a certain security clearance to read - I can't even tell you what clearance it requires to see them - but inside those files, it talks about all their missions, all the rumors about them, who they actually are. Pretty much everything about them is in there." "Now, I have the clearance required to read these files, and I have done so. But that sort of clearance is hard to come by - most _Archangels_ aren't given clearance to see all of them. Now, this includes your Archangel as well, so not even Michael knows everything about them -" One of the Ofanim piped up excitedly, "You can't know something that Michael doesn't know. Michael knows everything!" Stark shook his head. "No, he doesn't, because there are some things that have yet to be revealed to him, and he knows that this is how it should be. Now, in theory, since I've read the files about these people, I could tell you everything that you ever wanted to know about them. But then there would be a problem, since you don't have the clearance to know about this sort of thing." The crowd shuffled nervously as he continued. "Now, it is a serious crime to be in possession of information that you are specifically not cleared for. The punishment varies, depending on whether this breach of security occurred through no fault of your own or through willful attempts to circumvent the Divine Order. If I remember correctly, the last person to learn about them before he was cleared to do so was sentenced to have all of his Ethereal Forces stripped from his soul. Now, he was granted new Ethereal Forces of course - to do otherwise would have been UnJust. In fact, Dominic even granted him an additional one in compensation for the pain and suffering he was forced to go through. But he was never quite the same afterwards, really..." The crowd started backing away as the Seraph summoned a file into his hand. "Now that you understand the potential complications of having this knowledge, would anyone care to have a look? Anyone?" Starkariel chuckled to himself as he swung down from the tree after watching the crowd disperse. He began to continue down the road when he heard a twig snap behind him. He turned to face the sound, and found himself looking in the face of a young human's soul. Smiling slightly he bent down, "Yes, child. How may I be of service to you?" The young boy looked up at the huge serpent, and then moved forward and started to whisper something into Starkariel's ear. "Are you one of the Whispers, sir?" The Seraph looked around quietly, then touched the tip of his tail to the child's lips and winked. "Shhhh." - --------------------- The Whispers You'll never find them in any book, and you'll probably never even see anything that even remotely points to their existence. But they're out there - - the group known as the Whispers, a Dominican Special Operations team that handles the jobs that no other sane Triad would touch. With many similarities (and friendly ties) to the infamous 'Triad 314', the Whispers are said to be the bigger, nastier and more competent brothers to that unit. The Whispers were officially created sometime after the trial of Michael, but were at that time a much better kept secret. Only within the past 600 years or so has the name surfaced, and their operational record is still classified. It's estimated that only a dozen or so members exist at any given time, being organized into groups of three like most Dominicans. The three main triads are referred to by their primary purposes - Investigation, Infiltration, and Operations. A fourth Triad, referred to as Command, is composed of a senior representative from each of the triads beneath it. Although they are technically considered a Triad, the three members of the Command Triad are typically portrayed as lone operatives who are on loan to other Archangels unless Dominic requires their services. Paradoxically, they are also (relatively) the most open about being members of this group. The reason for this is simple - if someone has encountered a problem that they feel needs immediate attention, they can approach these 'lone operatives' and 'ask for advice'. The command staff never directly admits to being part of the group, but 'may know people to talk to'. The current members of the command staff are as follows - Judge Starkariel (Judge Stark) - A former Captain of Fate, this Seraph is currently placed as the liaison to the Groves of War. Although he openly admits to missing the multiplicity he held as a Bal-Kyriotate, he still manages to hold the favor of both Michael and Dominic by assisting in the training of younger Servitors of War. As the representative of the Operations Triad, he is the one most likely to be dealt with openly for more combat-oriented missions. Judge Wherriel (Judge? Where?) - A former Balseraph of Lust, this Judge gained promotion to the command triad by shaving her head and posing as a 'Bald-Seraph' for several months before planting the explosives to destroy a capital tether to Lust. Currently placed in Marc's organization as one of the Archangel of Trade's personal auditers, she assists her associates in the Infiltration Triad by generating paperwork and financing for undercover work. Wherriel can often be found on Earth, assisting in any job where harm to the Prince of Lust is involved. Judge Frekariel (Judge Freak) - A former Shedite of The Game, this Kyriotate is openly a Servitor of Judgment who serves as one of the guardians of Eli's Cathedral, in the event that the Archangel of Creation should return. Noted for his tendency to possess Hellsworn soldiers and then type out their memories using his attunements from Yves and Jean, this representative of the Investigation Triad has been repremanded more than once for his 'creative' punishments. Frekariel also serves as a hidden liaison to Triad 314, from where several of the Whispers have been recruited. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 17:23:17 +0000 From: "Jonathan Walton" Subject: IN> They Are Very Much Like Us: Part 3 The conspiracy revealed? Oh, come now. It's not that easy. They Are Very Much Like Us Part 3: The Cycle of Revelations "History doesn't repeat itself, but it sure does rhyme." - Mark Twain By the time the 23rd Century rolled to a close, the human race was on the verge of uncovering the ineffable. Or, at least, so they thought. Science had long ago become the religion of mankind and there was nothing that the human mind had not scrutinized, taken apart, reassembled, or fabricated. Sure, some pockets of traditional thought held out, but there would always be people (the Amish, reactionaries, revolutionaries, the devoutly faithful, etc.) who feared the inevitable progress of time and technology. For most, however, the future was bright and filled with the promise of human accomplishment. There was nothing that mankind couldn't do. Scarier yet (to some), it seemed there was nothing that mankind _wouldn't_ do. The Light Speed Barrier was a large hurdle, of course, but, in the end, it was no more troublesome than the Sound Barrier had been. Human adaptability and innovation was unstoppable. Limitations were always temporary, left to the younger generations who would, one day, crush them under their boots. The human race marched onward to the stars, setting a course for several earth-like planets discovered by their instruments. It was time to see just what this vast universe held for them. But it was hard to have an intelligent cultural exchange with algae. Wherever humanity went, it became clearer and clearer that they might be unique in the universe. Everywhere they went, the complexity of life was never as sophisticated as that on the earth. There were some alien life forms that had reached the cultural sophistication of, say, a school of fish, but, for those who sought a high level of communication with the star children, it was a big disappointment. Still, all these discoveries did much to feed man's superiority complex. "The world was made for Man to conquer and rule, and Man was made to conquer and rule it; and under Man's rule the world might have become a paradise except for the fact that he's fundamentally and irremediably flawed."* If this was the chief myth of mankind, the one they'd been acting out for millennia, then discovering that they were the sole children of the stars, the sole princes of the universe**, only made the myth into fact. Of course, now that mankind knew itself to be alone, it was time to create paradise. Surely the fundamental, irremediable flaw of man was simply another temporary limitation. As with all other barriers, it would soon find itself crushed under the boots of future generations. The march of progress would continue at any cost. And what better way to create paradise than to become the Creator. "World-building" became the buzzword of a generation, as the reality of terraforming, artificial habitats, and genetic manipulation brought human technology on par with the legendary creator deities that mankind had long abandoned. Humanity's flaws might keep them from creating a paradise for _themselves_, but perhaps they could best the demon by creating a paradise for others. Work soon began. On a small planet, one orbiting a star thousands of light-years from Sol, the children of man were birthed in Frankenstein labs of glass and steel. It was carried out through a process called "managed evolution." Certain factors were introduced to the environment of the planet, factors which brought the sophistication of life from algae to vertebrae in a few centuries. Luckily, the creatures brains were too small at that point to realize the incongruity between generations. A few centuries more and the "children" began to look more and more like their parents. Not too similar, of course, just enough to fulfill our narcissistic desires and make it possible to empathize with our creations. And then our children began to worship us. We should have been expecting it, but it honestly took most people by surprise. We were their creators, surely, but we did not see ourselves as gods. Spirituality was something that we had left behind with the earth and now to be faced with it again, in reverse? It was more than a little unsettling. Worse yet, two factions developed among the paradise builders. Some said that, with the Children, humanity was repeating our own mistakes. Was it proper to set up the Children as rulers of their world, a species above all other species? Was that not the very thing that had caused our own planet to be pushed to the edge of destruction? Was that truly a paradise? A peaceable kingdom? No, some answered. The Children were not any more special than the other living things on their planet. After all, we had raised them from being sea-muck, how could they now claim ownership of the planet we had "created?" They worshiped us, yes, but we were not objects of worship. Should we give them the planet just because they made us into gods? The Experiment was proposed. A specially created mated pair was placed in an isolated environment and monitored closely. In addition to some unknown variables that corrupted the experiment (conflicts within the original pairing; interference by the opposing faction), the test was a complete failure. The greed and arrogance of the Children was clearly demonstrated to surpass the fear and devotion they felt towards us. The opposing faction claimed victory, the supporting faction pointed fingers at the opposition, and the lines were drawn for the coming conflict. War was declared in Heaven. The two factions collided with all the power of their science behind them. The skies turned red with blood, the earth shook, and mountains crumbled. And, deep within the tattered husk of the Library, fortified within the Special Collections, as he had been for more than a century, ... ....Yves cried. - --- I think I finally got close to implying what I intended from the beginning. Still, there are some lose ends that I don't think I've illuminated clearly enough, especially bits from the first part (about the Grigori and the Fallen). Providing a comparison still makes it tricky to make the observations I wanted to. Therefore, you may eventually see a 4th part of this, maybe from Lucifer's perspective. But, that'll have to wait a little bit. Later. Jonathan, Agent of the InNominatti * This wording of the great myth of humanity is Daniel Quinn's. In my speculation about the future of the IN world, I have ignored the "fact" that our cultural mythology is not likely to sustain us beyond the next few centuries. As James Hetfield says, sad but true. ** Yes, the obligatory reference to both Queen and Highlander :) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 13:59:50 EST From: Samovar3@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> The Redeemers EDG wrote: >As for your first point, the Free Will point is (I believe) Canon Doubt and >Uncertainty. Nobody (save perhaps God and a few select Archangels) knows >whether anybody has free will or not, including demons and >angels. However, one of the major points in favor of free will is an >angel's ability to Fall, or a demon's ability to Redeem. One implication of that last sentence would be that Malakim, not being able to Fall, do not have free will. At least, that's what it says in this Bal-prop brochure here... You know, a game where it's been decided that celestials do not have free will could be quite interesting. That could explain why Lilith is so important, given that she's human. It could also explain why Asmodeus hasn't locked her up and thrown away the key ("Another eternity has been added to your sentence for creating an improper singular form for 'lilim.'" "Being Princess of Freedom means being free of the rules of grammar."). It would be really fun, in a game like this, to make the ultimate goal of Heaven and Hell be the Fate/Destiny of the three perfect humans. Lilith hasn't met her Fate (well on the way there, probably) and both Adam and Eve would keep reincarnating until they met one or the other. IMO it would be a lot more interesting that they keep reincarnating, rather than have had them definitively met their Destiny or Fate. Sam ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2490 ********************************