in_nomine-digest Saturday, December 29 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2497 In this digest: Re: IN> "Debutant Naked Yogurt Wrestling Ring Revealed!!!!!" Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction Re: IN> Finally Saw Dogma Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction Re: IN> "Debutant Naked Yogurt Wrestling Ring Revealed!!!!!" Re: IN> "Debutant Naked Yogurt Wrestling Ring Revealed!!!!!" Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction Re: IN> "Debutant Naked Yogurt Wrestling Ring Revealed!!!!!" IN> Re: Role Maintainance Re: IN> Finally Saw Dogma Re: IN> "Debutant Naked Yogurt Wrestling Ring Revealed!!!!!" Re: IN> "Debutant Naked Yogurt Wrestling Ring Revealed!!!!!" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 05:55:05 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> "Debutant Naked Yogurt Wrestling Ring Revealed!!!!!" - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > Yaasriel > Seraph Friend of the Quest > Angel of Tabloid Newspapers Moe, you scare me. But the fact that Yaasriel's modus operandi makes sense to me scares me even more. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "It is not the man who has too little, but the man who craves more, that is poor." -- Seneca __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 06:04:52 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction - --- Robb Kidd wrote: > Charles Glasgow wrote: > > OTOH, buying and storing ammunition for a weapon in no > way compares to > > taking hours out of one's schedule *every day*... that > is (to slip into > > GURPS-speak) a Duty disadvantage, not an Alternate > Identity advantage! True, but Roles should still take some effort to maintain. How's this: "Role Maintenance consists of (Role level x Status) hours per week spent in engaging in activities that a Mortal with an equivalent place in society would normally engage in." Thus, a Celestial with Role/6 (Status 4 movie star) is performing Role Maintenance by spending a weekend in Hawaii while one with Role/6 (Status 1 bum) need only spend an hour per day panhandling and can still keep the Sabbath holy. > Werl, to take a different tack with it, Swordies -do- > need to spend four > hours meditating in an armory for a single note of > Essence. And > Dreamers have to actively protect a sleeping mortal for > -eight- hours > for the same single note. [shrug] > But, then, I'm one of Eric's players and this sounds too > much like work > ... :) Seriously, though, what with the campaign plot to > follow, > playing out role maintenence could be as exciting as the > random > encounter tables you loathe, Eric, unless it can be > treated most of the > time with "I go into the office and put in six hours. > [roll] Got a 9 on > Bureacracy to sneak out of work early. [roll] And an 11 > on Performance > for eating lunch and loudly complaining about my > bladder." > ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "It is not the man who has too little, but the man who craves more, that is poor." -- Seneca __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 06:11:24 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Finally Saw Dogma - --- "Brian R. Boyko" wrote: > In fact, I plan to import a few characters from that > movie into the IN game > I'm running. Here is my question -should I conform Dogma > to In Nomine, or > In NOmine to dogma - I believe, canonically, Metatron is > dead, and there are no Grigori. Metatron is dead in IN canon, so you break with canon if you include him. However, if you must have canon, it's easy enough to replace him with Litheroy or Yves. As to the Grigori, they do still exist. They're just Outcast from Heaven (which conforms to Bartleby's status) and there are no rules for playing them (except in GURPS IN). Just don't give players the option of having PC Grigori unless you're using the GURPS rules. If you don't have access to GIN, you're not required to even have Grigori NPC's. Just letting the PC's know about the Grigori is sufficient. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "It is not the man who has too little, but the man who craves more, that is poor." -- Seneca __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 14:16:48 +0000 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction Contrary to popular belief, it is possible to exist in the United States, especially in or near a major city, without having a driver's license or knowing how to drive. (The Department of Motor Vehicles issues licenses "for identification only" which are indistinguishable from a driver's license except for the note above.) (Although it requires a little extra planning to get to SCA events ...) Janet Anderson _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 08:30:08 -0600 From: "Erich S. Arendall" Subject: Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction I concur completely Casca. Roles should be maintained constantly -- which means that a high level Role could be found unplayable in a four-color celestial game. Personally, I've always felt that Roles do more than keep a bit of Symphonic Disturbance away. Roles themselves strengthen a celestial's ties to the earth. Though I've not made an exact chart or anything, when running a game I've always given higher level Roles more earthly backgrounds -- to the point where a level 6 Role would allow federal agents to come across a complete, Role tailored, background when making a historical check on the celestial. Drivers License/ID, SSN, Birth Certificate, etc. Conversely, a level 1 Role would only present the angel with a Drivers License/ID and little background beyond that. ....What would happen if an angel without a Role was pulled over for speeding? ....---... Erich S. Arendall http://www.egrigor.com/ Egrigor | One monkey. Infinite typewriters. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 15:01:20 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction >From: "Erich S. Arendall" >Subject: Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction >Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 08:30:08 -0600 >...What would happen if an angel without a Role was pulled over for >speeding? If he's smart, the angel says that he just left his license at home -- at which point the police officer gives him a compliance ticket for driving without a license, and he has show up at the courthouse next month to prove that he actually does have a drivers' license. And when he blows off his court date (1), odds are about 99-to-1 that the name he gave the cop and the tags of the car he was driving go into the computer and stay there to have a warrant served on them if anybody ever pulls them over again, but no especial action is taken. This presumes, of course, that the cop hasn't been given any other reason to smell something wrong (suspicious behavior, driver fits a drug courier profile, cop spots the muzzle of an M-16 sticking out from under the drivers' seat, etc.), at which point haul out your stop-and-search-the-car procedures. - -- Chuckg (1) Alternately, the angel could just use the intervening time to buy a Role/1 in the name that he claimed earlier, and show up and present his license on court day, at which point the books are safely cleared. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 15:57:38 +0000 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction >>...What would happen if an angel without a Role was pulled over for >>speeding? > >If he's smart, the angel says that he just left his license at home Unless he's a Seraph. A Seraph would have to say, "I don't have a driver's license, Officer." Which would cause him more trouble, as I believe the police officer would not only give him a ticket but would require him to leave the car parked somewhere and drive him home in a police car. Janet Anderson (From my husband's unfortunate personal experience: if you are pulled over and do not have your license with you, nowadays they can check by computer, from the police car, to see if you actually have one or not, by your social security number. You don't actually have to appear in court; you just have to pay the ticket.) _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 16:07:04 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction >From: "Janet Anderson" >Subject: Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction >Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 15:57:38 +0000 [snip] >>If he's smart, the angel says that he just left his license at home >Unless he's a Seraph. A Seraph would have to say, "I don't have a driver's >license, Officer." There's always the half-truth -- "I haven't renewed my license yet, Officer." Which is the exact truth. He hasn't renewed his license yet. Of course, that's because he hasn't *gotten* one yet. :-) >Which would cause him more trouble, as I believe the police officer would >not only give him a ticket but would require him to leave the car parked >somewhere and drive him home in a police car. True. >(From my husband's unfortunate personal experience: if you are pulled over >and do not have your license with you, nowadays they can check by computer, >from the police car, to see if you actually have one or not, by your social >security number. You don't actually have to appear in court; you just have >to pay the ticket.) Well, pretty much any angel with a car already has a perfectly good name and social security # and driver's license # available -- the one that's printed on the registration for the car. (1) Of course that's not *his* name, but so long as the gender matches he should most likely be able to get away with it at least long enough to get away from the immediate traffic stop. - -- Chuckg (1) And if the registration ticket ain't in the glove box of the car, congrats -- even if you *had* a drivers' license, you're still not going anywhere until that cop finishes checking out whether or not the car is stolen. At which point, not having a Role will pretty much sink you. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 12:53:21 -0500 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction > OTOH, buying and storing ammunition for a weapon in no way compares to > taking hours out of one's schedule *every day*... that is (to slip into > GURPS-speak) a Duty disadvantage, not an Alternate Identity advantage! If you use a gun every day, you're a fool if you don't clean it every day. By the same token, you're using that Role every day, so you really ought to maintain it, too. > And usually, I DM on the principle of "The rest of the universe is mine > anyway, I don't really need to screw the PC's over with their own > hard-earned resources. Much." I honestly don't understand why folks are so up in arms about this. There isn't as much screwing going on as everyone seems to think. - -- Casca "Many people hear voices when no-one is there. Some of them are called mad and are shut up in rooms where they stare at the walls all day. Others are called writers and they do pretty much the same thing." --Margaret Chittenden, writer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 12:57:02 -0500 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction > But, then, I'm one of Eric's players and this sounds too much like work > ... :) Seriously, though, what with the campaign plot to follow, > playing out role maintenence could be as exciting as the random > encounter tables you loathe, Eric, unless it can be treated most of the > time with "I go into the office and put in six hours. [roll] Got a 9 on > Bureacracy to sneak out of work early. [roll] And an 11 on Performance > for eating lunch and loudly complaining about my bladder." *sigh* When have I every made you folks play Paperwork & Paychecks? Unless I have a specific plot element to hang on it, role maintenance can be dealt with thusly: "You go spend X hours maintaining your Role." That's it. Just like when the human in the group has to put in hours with her job. - -- Casca "Many people hear voices when no-one is there. Some of them are called mad and are shut up in rooms where they stare at the walls all day. Others are called writers and they do pretty much the same thing." --Margaret Chittenden, writer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 12:05:03 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction Eric Bertish wrote: > I honestly don't understand why folks are so up in arms about this. There> isn't as much screwing going on as everyone seems to think. You're being too defensive. No one is "up in arms." We're just raising objections. If so many people have the same objection, you might want to consider the possibility that it has some validity. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 12:59:48 -0500 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction > Well, pretty much any angel with a car already has a perfectly good name and > social security # and driver's license # available -- the one that's printed > on the registration for the car. (1) Of course that's not *his* name, but > so long as the gender matches he should most likely be able to get away with > it at least long enough to get away from the immediate traffic stop. Isn't this the definition of a Role/1 ? - -- Casca "Many people hear voices when no-one is there. Some of them are called mad and are shut up in rooms where they stare at the walls all day. Others are called writers and they do pretty much the same thing." --Margaret Chittenden, writer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 18:11:20 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction >From: "Eric Bertish" >Subject: Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction >Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 12:53:21 -0500 [snip] >If you use a gun every day, you're a fool if you don't clean it every day. a) my dad's gun collection gets cleaned about once every six months. They're all still in prime condition. Of course, that's because they're just in storage. If they were being used, they'd have to be cleaned at least every week. b) It takes perhaps 5-10 minutes a day to keep a weapon in shape. You're talking *hours* a day. As my EverQuest playing acquaintances keep griping in my hearing, more mandatory downtime = less game-playing fun. >By the same token, you're using that Role every day, so you really ought to >maintain it, too. Well, yes. However, I agree with David's point that role maintenance should be used as a plot hook to /further/ adventure, not as a downtime requirement to take effort and hours /away/ from the adventure. I mean, heck, if you don't want the players to have high-level Roles, just hand down the word -- "Roles above 2-3 are not available for PC use. Your Superiors want you guys free for use as a rapid deployment force, not as long-term agents in place." Gets it over with much faster and with less sense on the players' parts that they're getting boned... because they're not spending hard-earned points for the privilege of getting boned. > > And usually, I DM on the principle of "The rest of the universe is > >mine anyway, I don't really need to screw the PC's over with their > own >hard-earned resources. Much." >I honestly don't understand why folks are so up in arms about this. There >isn't as much screwing going on as everyone seems to think. The 'at my whim' part of your earlier post did not sound at all reassuring. Plus, there's usually a genre expectation in RPG'ing that if you paid character points for it, it's one of the very very very very *VERY* few things in an otherwise hostile universe that *won't* try to bite your PC on the butt sooner or later. Let's face it -- players already have more than enough reasons to be paranoid that Everything Is Out To Get Them One Way Or The Other (because Everything is under the control of the DM)... when their own resources join the hit parade, sometimes the poor PC fails to find motivation to get out of bed in the morning. Remember the Agent Training Program scene in "The Matrix"? The one that was there to teach our heroes to be on guard against /every single passing face in the crowd/, because they never know when one of them is going to suddenly morph into a Hostile NPC Monster, pull out a Big Honking Weapon, and try to blow their head off? That's every day of a player's life, as we can all recall from our own tenures on the player's side of the DM's screen. Every time the DM describes *anything*, no matter how innocuous, at least half of your mind has to remain focused on the topic of "OK, and if *this* suddenly jumps up and tries to kill/harm/inconvenience/annoy me, how should I respond?" If you have to also carry over that attitude towards your own Resources, then that really ups the nervousness quotient in some players. - -- Chuckg _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 18:14:25 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction >From: "Eric Bertish" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 12:59:48 -0500 [snip] >Isn't this the definition of a Role/1 ? I was talking about an angel with no Role being pulled over while driving *somebody else's* car. (Obviously, if he has no Role, it's not /his/ car.) One of his best moves, if he can pull it off, is to simply claim that he's the registered owner of the vehicle, show "his" vehicle's registration (OK, everybody who *doesn't* keep his vehicle registration in his car, raise their hands. *crickets chirping* Thank you.), and apologize for having left "his" license at home. And pray to God that the cop doesn't personally know the vehicle's actual owner and doesn't pick up that you're lying. Fast-Talk/6 might not be able to create a Role/1, but if used properly it should be able to at least get you around the corner and safely way before the cop realizes that he's been jobbed. - -- Chuckg _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 14:50:10 -0500 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction > Well, yes. However, I agree with David's point that role maintenance > should be used as a plot hook to /further/ adventure, not as a downtime > requirement to take effort and hours /away/ from the adventure. I don't recall ever having said that the role maintenance must be RP'd. Aren't there blank spaces during the game, wherein you say, "Ok, time passes. It's now dawn..."? This is a perfect time for maintenance. It's also a great way to stuff a gag in the mouths of players who *do* want to RP every second of every day ("Sorry, you can't go to San Francisco to give hugs to all your friends there. You need to maintain your Role.") > I mean, heck, if you don't want the players to have high-level Roles, just > hand down the word -- "Roles above 2-3 are not available for PC use. Your > Superiors want you guys free for use as a rapid deployment force, not as > long-term agents in place." Gets it over with much faster and with less > sense on the players' parts that they're getting boned... because they're > not spending hard-earned points for the privilege of getting boned. Ah... I think this is the crux of the matter. See, my PCs *are* long-term agents in place, rather than globe-trotting troubleshooters. I understand this makes me a minority on the list.... > The 'at my whim' part of your earlier post did not sound at all reassuring. That's because I am a dark and sadistic god who can only be propitiated by offerings of caffiene, pizza, and backrubs (if you happen to be female). Incurring my wrath is a dreadful thing, and the surest way to incure my wrath is to Bore Me. Keep me entertained, and I become less darkly whimsical. > Every time the DM describes *anything*, no matter how innocuous, at least > half of your mind has to remain focused on the topic of "OK, and if *this* > suddenly jumps up and tries to kill/harm/inconvenience/annoy me, how should > I respond?" If you have to also carry over that attitude towards your own > Resources, then that really ups the nervousness quotient in some players. I like keeping my players nervous. They must like it too (or consider it a worthy tradeoff), because they keep coming back for more abuse. I follow the John Wick rule of "Beat the crap out of your players and they will love you for it". And it works. Couple months back -- about a week before Halloween, actually -- I had an NPC apparently soul-kill a player. By all appearances, it was completely and utterly unfair. One minute the PC is fine, the next he's been soul-killed by a bullet to the head (!) while still in a vessel (!!). I then handed the player a note. The player read the note, cursed, put away his character sheet, and proceeded to make a new PC. Not a single player left the room or raised a voice in protest about this arbitrary and unfair event. Why? Because they trust me. They trust me to tell a good story and to be fair to them, if not their characters. They knew I had a reason for this, they knew I wouldn't screw them unnecessarily. They got more nervous when two more PCs soul-died in the following combat, but stil nobody left. One player was staring daggers at me, but I wasn't questioned. For reasons I won't get into, it was a ruse on the part of the NPC, and their characters weren't really dead. Yet it was a tense and gripping moment for the players, and was appropriate to both the plot and the holiday. The entire point of this story is that your players should trust you. If they do, you don't have to worry about the aforementioned mindset of "How will my GM try to screw me with this?" And if they don't trust you, then you've got far bigger issues to handle. I am now officially done with this topic. - -- Casca "Many people hear voices when no-one is there. Some of them are called mad and are shut up in rooms where they stare at the walls all day. Others are called writers and they do pretty much the same thing." --Margaret Chittenden, writer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 20:12:39 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction >From: "Eric Bertish" >Subject: Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction >Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 14:50:10 -0500 [snip] >The entire point of this story is that your players should trust you. If >they do, you don't have to worry about the aforementioned mindset of "How >will my GM try to screw me with this?" And if they don't trust you, then >you've got far bigger issues to handle. You apparently have the luxury of gaming with close personal friends whom you've known for years. I should only wish to be in your shoes... 'cause I DM for a community college's role-playing club... I see a fresh rotation of faces every firking semester, and only me and one other person have played continuously for longer than a year. Whether it's my turn as DM or as player, either way I am playing with people I've only known for weeks and am only going to know for 4-6 months. Obviously, trust isn't quite as deep here -- nor can it be. By the time they're just getting to know me well enough to trust me, everybody's class schedule is changing around, people are graduating, freshmen are coming in, and I've got to start a new campaign. Like I said about three posts ago -- if you're doing this with the informed consent of all your players, then IYC these tactics will work. But you are in anything but the typical situation for GM's in general. - -- Chuckg _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 20:23:51 GMT From: asmpd@usol.com Subject: Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction Charles Glasgow wrote: > >From: "Eric Bertish" > >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > >Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 12:59:48 -0500 > > [snip] > >Isn't this the definition of a Role/1 ? > > I was talking about an angel with no Role being pulled over while > driving *somebody else's* car. (Obviously, if he has no Role, it's > not /his/ car.) > > One of his best moves, if he can pull it off, is to simply claim that > he's the registered owner of the vehicle, show "his" vehicle's > registration (OK, everybody who *doesn't* keep his vehicle > registration in his car, raise their hands. *crickets chirping* Thank > you.), and apologize for having left "his" license at home. And pray > to God that the cop doesn't personally know the vehicle's actual > owner and doesn't pick up that you're lying. I know this is almost noise, but I don't keep my registration in my car for this exact reason. I prefer to make the potential car thief's life as difficult as possible and I always carry my wallet on my person (and so never need to worry about not having the registration on me). I also don't leave the parking deck ticket or the toll-way ticket in the car. I know a few others who act similarly, though we may just be the aberrations in the cricket field. Still, you may want to consider nailing the celestial/ethereal car thief with this situation occasionally. Thanks, Andy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 20:46:34 +0000 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction >From: David Edelstein >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > >Also, some Roles might NOT require maintenance (or not as much). It >depends on the realism level of your campaign, but my write-up of >Mastema, for example (http://www.amadan.org/Innomine/Mastema.html) has a >Role/6 (Lawyer) which is unspecified; wherever he's needed, Asmodeus >pulls strings and suddenly Mastema belongs there and is a seamless part >of the Symphony. Granted this is for a powerful NPC with direct help >from a Superior, but I imagine some Roles can be done with smoke and >mirrors. > This is what I had always thought. There are miracles involved here. A superior _can_ wave a wingtip and create a role, and yes, the symphony will change retrospectively to fit it in. You can't stop being who you are just because your habits change. A President/6 doesn't stop being president because he goes walkabout. He might end up in a mental hospital if he can't keep finding reasonable explanations for it, but he doesn't lose the role. jo _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 15:03:51 -0800 From: Daiv Subject: Re: IN> "Debutant Naked Yogurt Wrestling Ring Revealed!!!!!" When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. -Hunter S. Thompson (Daiv Variation: replace weird with wyrd. It works) >...and it would seem that I've gotten weird, again. > >(shrug) > >Inevitable, I suppose. - -- hammer and anvil fire sweat iron and breath forging destiny ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 22:41:25 -0000 From: "Genevieve Cogman" Subject: Re: IN> "Debutant Naked Yogurt Wrestling Ring Revealed!!!!!" Out of curiosity, how is this angel working to make Tabloids a force for good in the mortal world, or using them to direct humans towards the course of Heaven? I agree he's cute, but I'm not sure that just using tabloids to pass messages or to look for signs of activity in the War really qualifies them as a Word. Now, a demon using Tabloids as a demonic force to damn souls, increase prejudice, raise Lust, promote Dark Humor . . . all that I can see. How is this angel using the Tabloids as a force for good in the human world? Just curious (and I do like the character), Genevieve ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 18:33:21 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction At 7:58 PM -0500 12/27/01, Eric Bertish wrote: [...] >bonuses for each week after the first. Note that all mortals have >effectively impenetrable roles. Unless they're using an assumed identity? (Such as the 90+ year old fellow who looked 20. Was on the, ah, wrong side in WWII -- but had been using Corporeal Entropy concoctions to be young periodically. We would have liked to talk to him, but a 111 took out the flying Vaputech car he was in. *ZOT* ) Corporeal Entropy, undead, people on the run, Witness Protection Program... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 19:12:30 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction Eric Bertish wrote: > I am now officially done with this topic. OK Eric, that's fine. But do us a favor and don't post your ideas for new mechanics anymore if you're going to act defensive and indignant when people spot flaws in the idea. What you do in your game is up to you, but you've heard feedback from a lot of people, including your own players, and some fairly experienced In Nomine writers/GMs that suggests maybe some of your ideas might merit rethinking. You were complaining not long ago about unadulterated praise being dripped on one particular contributor; it seems you have a problem if you work doesn't get the same response. Look, I know what it feels like to have a really cool idea you've fallen in love with get holes shot in it. Happens all the time to me, often with stuff I've written for publication. Sometimes hard not to get defensive about it too. But a good metric is whether multiple people with no reason to have an agenda are saying the SAME things, and you're not hearing any specific counterarguments (which would suggest the objection is more of a YMMV thing). - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 01:27:50 From: "Daniel Gallagher" Subject: Re: IN> "Debutant Naked Yogurt Wrestling Ring Revealed!!!!!" Excelent wordboud Moe! BTW - 'Polite Club' was my personal favorite out of IR 3. Daniel Demon Prince of Lurkers "I see the world, but it rarely sees me." _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 13:26:40 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Re: Role Maintainance > I have a friend who is in his late 20's and has never had > a driver's license, credit card, bank loan or police > record. According to the rules above, he'd be pegged as a > Celestial. However, even he agrees that he's unusual, so > such cases do warrant further investigation. It's not as uncommon as you'd think - I'm in my 30's and in the same situation, as are a couple of my friends. And yes, we have reputations as being weird, which would make us more likely to be suspected as celestials. So we'd tie up both sides analysis teams. Of course, once we'd been 'cleared', the other side might consider replacing us with a celestial, to exploit the confusion. Nice to know that it's just a game.... :-) Cheers, James. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 23:57:24 -0800 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Finally Saw Dogma > S > p > o > i > l > e > r > > s > p > a > c > e > > In fact, I plan to import a few characters from that movie into the IN game > I'm running. Here is my question -should I conform Dogma to In Nomine, or > In NOmine to dogma - I believe, canonically, Metatron is dead, and there > are no Grigori. > > But having "The pope is infallable" would certainly bring a whole bunch of > cool campaign ideas. I recommend altering In Nomine to Dogma, otherwise there's little point in using the characters from Dogma (since they will have been changed). Maybe the Metatron was never really killed (he was Gabriel all along, and now when speaking as the voice of God, Gabriel has a different appearance and calls himself the Metatron). There -are- Grigori (se GURPS In Nomine for the choir description and powers, iirc), only very few (and the protagonists in Dogma -are- old enough tofor one of them to be a Grigori). Hey, maybe they're SO old, they don't even have choirs (back before God though of limiting his Angels with choirs, or something). Loki's choir? dunno - if I were doing it, I'd call him a dissonant Seraph (haven't seen the movie in a while). - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd "Il n'y a pas de honte à préférer le bonheur." - -Albert Camus ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 23:10:25 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> "Debutant Naked Yogurt Wrestling Ring Revealed!!!!!" - --- Genevieve Cogman wrote: > Out of curiosity, how is this angel working to make > Tabloids a force for good in the mortal world, or > using them to direct humans towards the course > of Heaven? Curse you and your inconveniently pertinent questions. ;) Seriously... hmm. I can think of several rationalizations: 1) If it is accepted that tabloid newpapers are a useful tool in the quest to detect demonic infiltration of the corporeal plane, then as is Tabloids are *already* a force for good. An angel of same is simply there to make sure that it stays that way. Too much circular logic, ehh? Try this one: 2) Capturing the high ground. The argument here is that the mere presence of an Angel of Tabloids is enough to act as a minor check on demonic activity in that area. Instead of acting freely in this particular arena, Hell will have to _re_act to Heaven's moves, thus providing the latter with the initiative. Also, it might even force Hell to waste a good Servitor on a Word that isn't as useful to them as it is to Heaven. After all, I believe that Balseraphim of Fate [Seraph] are the only demons that can automatically detect Truth, and they're usually too screwed up in the head anyway to be what one would call functional. Hmm. Too... Michaelish. Well, there's always: 3) Nobody actually expects for Tabloids to be a force for good - but it never hurts to have the enemy scratch their heads and try to see meaning where there isn't any. Or something like that. ;) Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/13/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 12:32:32 -0500 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: Re: IN> "Debutant Naked Yogurt Wrestling Ring Revealed!!!!!" > --- Genevieve Cogman wrote: > >>Out of curiosity, how is this angel working to make Tabloids a force > for good in the mortal world, or using them to direct humans towards > the course of Heaven? If I may borrow from one of Moe's other write ups: "Did Heaven really want to just leave even one facet of human society completely open to the Enemy's machinations?" (Nigel, Mercurian of Creation IST Flowers) Good rationalization in my eyes. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2497 ********************************