in_nomine-digest Thursday, January 3 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2502 In this digest: Re: IN> Finally Saw Dogma Re: IN> Finally Saw Dogma Re: IN> Finally Saw Dogma Re: IN> Finally Saw Dogma RE: IN> Finally Saw Dogma IN> Re: "British" accents, and their relation to homosexuality (OT) Re: IN> Finally Saw Dogma Re: IN> Finally Saw Dogma Re: IN> Diversions (Was Role Maintainance) IN> Dogma thoughts Re: IN> Finally Saw Dogma Re: IN> Finally Saw Dogma Re: IN> Dogma thoughts Re: IN> Finally Saw Dogma Re: IN> Finally Saw Dogma Re: IN> IN Undead... Re: IN> Dogma thoughts Re: IN> In Nomine goes to Kindergarten RE: IN> Finally Saw Dogma Re: IN> LR Question Re: IN> LR Question IN> Re: Mail Order - Attunement for Trade IN> Historical settings Re: IN> Historical settings Re: IN> Historical settings IN> Angels: The System IN> Re: Historical Setting Re: IN> Re: Historical Setting Re: IN> Finally Saw Dogma Re: IN> Introduction Re: IN> Finally Saw Dogma IN> Brass & Steel In Nomine MUSH Re: IN> Finally Saw Dogma Re: IN> Finally Saw Dogma Re: IN> Re: Mail Order - Attunement for Trade ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 15:40:04 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Finally Saw Dogma Bevan Thomas wrote: > Well, with all fairness, most of the metaphors used to describe the > relationship between God and humanity is that of a bridegroom to a > bride. [...] > And a lot of Christian imagery pictures God as a bearded patriarch. Actually, THE commonest metaphor is to picture God as a king, with father being a close second. Yes, these masculine images are where the confusion comes from. Doesn't excuse it. To steer this back toward IN, Derek Pearcy offered some guidelines for how to present God on stage, in IN, in an early draft. He was scrupulous to present some feminine theophanies. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 14:46:22 -0600 From: toadpooka@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> Finally Saw Dogma On Wed, 2 Jan 2002 10:05:16 -0600 "Prodigal" writes: > The Golgothan could simply be a Shedim who gained the ability to > generate its own vessel in the same way that a Kyriotate of Stone does. So, a Shedite Sevitor of Poop... Anyone want to do a writeup of this Prince? I know I don't :) >From Whom It May Concern, Rich Ranallo "Rock and Roll will be the new planetary culture, believe it or not." - -Prof. Michio Kaku ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 14:52:49 -0600 From: toadpooka@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> Finally Saw Dogma Now, I'm not necessarily one to obsessively try to reconcile games and movies just because they have the same subject matter, but a lot of Dogma could have existed within In Nomine, and this list is wrong on quite a few counts: Also, not included is that Dogma accepted papal infallibility, which is probably the biggest divergence from IN canon. On Wed, 2 Jan 2002 15:33:14 +0100 "Donato Ranzato" writes: > Top 10 Reasons why Dogma is different from In Nomine: > > 10) No Malakim would befriend a Grigori Reasonable, if you consider Loki to be a Malakite > 9) God is a woman God, like angels and archangels, can be anything He wants...even Alanis Morisette. > 8) Angels believe Jesus was Son of God Some angels beleive this, but by no means all, certainly. > 7) Jesus was a black man There's no condtradiction to this in game canon. > 6) 13th Apostel ('nuff said) Yet again, no contradiction in canon. > 5) Jay and Silent Bob are Prophets (Soldiers of God?) Two words: E li > 4) IN doesn't mention the Last Zion IN doesn't mention a lot of things, but that doesn't necessarily mean they couldn't exist. > 3) In doesn't mention Golgothan Demons ("what Band are you?" "I am a > Shit demon." "I know, but what Band are you?") True here. > 2) Serendipity should be a Lilim Just 'cos she wears an attractive vessel? She fits much more as a servitor of Creation to me. > 1) In In Nomine the Metatron is dead and not a British queer (no offence). Metatron is indeed dead (or Gone, at least). Enough has been said on the "queer" mention already, so I'll refrain from what I would've said. >From Whom It May Concern, Rich Ranallo "Rock and Roll will be the new planetary culture, believe it or not." - -Prof. Michio Kaku ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 15:52:24 EST From: CsHoneyman@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Finally Saw Dogma Didn't someone do a Prince of Butts? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 16:06:10 -0500 From: "Brook Freeman" Subject: RE: IN> Finally Saw Dogma > > All the Mexicans I know have a Mexican accent. Most of the > Americans I > know > > have American accents, but I'm told I have an English accent. > Everyone has > > some kind of accent. > > Yeah, but just as North America covers Canada and Mexico, so > Britain covers > England, Scotland and Wales. Perhaps I should have said _North American_. > Anyway, saying a _British_ accent means precisely nothing, > because there is > no accent which is representative of the whole. England does not equal > Britain, and vice versa, anymore than North America equals the > USA. Sorry, > just one of my pet hates... I'm picking nits here (and wandering far a field, should probably take this off list if it continues further) but it is impossible to speak with an American accent or an English one. These are two large *dialects* to the English language. A native of France speaks the English language with a French *accent*. A native English speaker *cannot* have an accent in English, they speak a dialect of English. If you are not a native speaker you have an accent (e.g. English with a French accent, German with an American accent, etc.) If you are a native speaker you have a dialect (broadly American dialect, English dialect, more specifically Cockney dialect, New York dialect, etc.) It is possible you have both an accent and a dialect (e.g. a Frenchmen who has worked in Oxford for fifteen years probably speaks with both a French accent and an English dialect) Yes, I am aware that this is not the most common usage of these two terms. However as someone who has done theatre work, including some small amount of voice training, where we talked about this sort of thing I am aware of correct usage. Brook Freeman ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 15:12:06 -0600 From: toadpooka@juno.com Subject: IN> Re: "British" accents, and their relation to homosexuality (OT) On Wed, 2 Jan 2002 15:41:05 EST CsHoneyman@aol.com writes: > Funnily enough, my girlfriend (a Texan, for the record) told me that > many American /women/ find the accent sexy. Many American men will often counter any offense by pointing out that the offender "is gay." Even offenses in which the offender steals said American man's woman. no one ever said we had to be logical. As for there being no "British" accent, that's true, but one can still say that someone has a British accent; it just means that they have an accent from a region of the British Isles. It's not incorrect, it's just vague. The same is true anywhere. It's like how someone can say that you've got an American accent without specifying Southern, Western, Minnesota, Chicago, New York, etc. I can even identify accents from different suburbs of Chicago, so I don't take note of someone generalizing an American accent. (For the information of those outside of North America, only people from the US largely call themselves "American." Some Canadians will point out often that they are Americans too, and they're technically correct, it's just not how the majority sees it. People in Mexico or South America will think you're crazy if you call them American, however.) >From Whom It May Concern, Rich Ranallo "Rock and Roll will be the new planetary culture, believe it or not." - -Prof. Michio Kaku ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 15:10:16 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Finally Saw Dogma From: > On Wed, 2 Jan 2002 10:05:16 -0600 "Prodigal" > writes: > > The Golgothan could simply be a Shedim who gained the ability to > > generate its own vessel in the same way that a Kyriotate of Stone does. > > So, a Shedite Sevitor of Poop... Not necessarily a servitor; I see the Golgothan as having gained a Word whose possession allows it to generate that particular type of vessel. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 22:20:28 +0100 From: "Donato Ranzato" Subject: Re: IN> Finally Saw Dogma From: "Prodigal" > Not necessarily a servitor; I see the Golgothan as having gained a Word > whose possession allows it to generate that particular type of vessel. So, maybe a Shedite whose is the Demon of Excess Waste. Or maybe the Demon of Pollution (although that was one of the Four Horsemen in "Good Omens") Donato ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 13:37:54 -0800 From: "Phillip Des Jardins" Subject: Re: IN> Diversions (Was Role Maintainance) > I can see Hell doing it, but not Heaven. Doing this to > an innocent mortal is something that no Archangel would > approve of, while doing it to those who aren't so innocent > is directing demons toward potential Hellsworn. I'd agree withyo, and I would in no way let it fly in my campaigns, but I thought it bore mentioning for those who run darker games. Phillip, the Happy Shiny Mercurian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 16:57:05 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Dogma thoughts God as a woman... Well there's been alot written about this and while even the Bible refers to God as a mother on occasion there was a very strict male God image to represent wisdom, dignity, and lawful ruling aspects as opposed to more nuturing and (in the case of steroetyping) submssive aspects. While one may make some fairly obtuse arguements that since God took Jesus as a form he is Male we can I think safely discount that...truth be told one of the biggest objections isn't god was a woman but the fact God was Alanis Moisette. Alan Rickman sounding gay seems rather odd given he has the deep condemning Jimi Hendrix/British rockstar/drugged out sound to him that is most definately not gay. However when someone wishes to mock something they seem to use that particular adjective almost out of hand. Personally Dogma was my favorite movie by Kevin Smith and it annoys the heck out of me that they arn't going to do a sequel to it such as Jay and Silent Bob vs. the devil. Actually it might be funny to have Jay and Silent Bob as Saints. Jay: I love this place... Laurence: Hello most noble servants of the Lord Most High! Your service here I've come to reward for your holy treatment of the Last Scion. Bob: Cool. Jay: Uh your not like a @@@(@*@ comming onto me are you? Laurence: Uh, no. Jay: Cause like the long hair and reward. Me and Silent Bob are okay with the lifestyle up here...hey we'll even join in with that Blandine and Beleth chick...sepaertaly of course but we hope you'll respect our need to stay the @&@* away from any of your male orgies. Laurence: ... Jaye: Sorry I just heard from that Eli dude about you and Michael, it's okay dude...more tail for me. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 14:04:30 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Finally Saw Dogma - --- CsHoneyman@aol.com wrote: > No such thing as a British accent. Unless you guys want > us to start saying > that Mexicans have an American accent, anyway... Touche. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "It is not the man who has too little, but the man who craves more, that is poor." -- Seneca __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 14:07:03 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Finally Saw Dogma - --- Bevan Thomas wrote: > Well, with all fairness, most of the metaphors used to > describe the > relationship between God and humanity is that of a > bridegroom to a bride. True of the best known metaphors -- but there are some lesser known ones that emphasize the nurturing/feminine aspects. > And a lot of Christian imagery pictures God as a bearded > patriarch. That, I suspect, has more to do with the chauvinism endemic to those cultures than with Biblical or Koranic truth. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "It is not the man who has too little, but the man who craves more, that is poor." -- Seneca __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 23:13:03 +0100 From: "Donato Ranzato" Subject: Re: IN> Dogma thoughts From: "Charles Phipps" > > Actually it might be funny to have Jay and Silent Bob as Saints. > Jay: Cause like the long hair and reward. Me and Silent Bob are okay with > the lifestyle up here...hey we'll even join in with that Blandine and Beleth > chick...sepaertaly of course but we hope you'll respect our need to stay the > @&@* away from any of your male orgies. Wouldn't Jay and Bob feel more at home in Novalis' garden, smoking some funny weed? If Jay would hear about Andrealphus he would probably be the fastest "falling" Saint in existence :-) Donato ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 14:19:40 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Finally Saw Dogma - --- CsHoneyman@aol.com wrote: > Funnily enough, my girlfriend (a Texan, for the record) > told me that many > American /women/ find the accent sexy. It's not limited to American women. A lot of American men LOVE to hear English women talk. Nor is it limited to English accents -- yours truly goes nuts at the sound of Caribbean women's voices. Basically, it's just the lure of the exotic -- which suggests another use for the Accent Discord (at level 1) and a reason why a Servitor of Lust might even _ask_ for it. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "It is not the man who has too little, but the man who craves more, that is poor." -- Seneca __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 16:36:26 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Finally Saw Dogma CsHoneyman@aol.com wrote: > Minor nitpick... > > No such thing as a British accent. Unless you guys want us to start saying> that Mexicans have an American accent, anyway... Mexicans have a Mexican accent, Americans have an American accent, and Brits have a British accent. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 17:24:12 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> IN Undead... At 10:45 PM -0500 12/31/01, CsHoneyman@aol.com wrote: >Hi everyone... This is my first thing to the list, so be gentle with me :o) Woo! And you're not using 6.0! (Don't upgrade! AOL 6.0 _ONLY_ produces HTML email, which is forbidden on the list. I hate being mean to AOLers...) >The Undead in IN seem a bit underpowered, especially the vamps. Does anyone >have any good ideas? Or any ideas at all...? GURPS In Nomine + GURPS Bloodtypes? - --Beth, co-author of GIN ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 17:21:50 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Dogma thoughts At 4:16 PM -0500 12/30/01, Charles Phipps wrote: >This is actually where I think In Nomine breaks down because Impudites are >STILL not allowed to kill people when I have to think violence and breaking >necks is the thing that most Impudites that are created fall for. Impudites of Death are, wholesale. Kobalite Impudites have to make it Funny, and it has to be a "fair" fight for Baalite ones, but hey. If an Impudite wants to _KILL_ and not just "smack silly," there are Superiors for it to go to. (A Mercurian who just wants to smack some humans around, without killing them, gets just as dissonant as one who decides to not just Fall, but open up with an SMG and try to invoke Saminga with the resulting corpses artistically displayed around him. Well, except for the autofire, that is. Autofire can make the dissonance go much faster so you rack up more faster...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 17:46:20 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine goes to Kindergarten At 4:06 PM +0000 1/2/02, Jonathan Walton wrote: [...] >Perhaps varifying verifying. O:> >plans for a 2nd Ed (not likely, and definitely not Oh, I have _PLANS_. It's _SCHEDULE_ I don't have. >enough for most of us)? Varifying the creation of something like a >"Celestial Player's Guide" (something that Beth has hinted will come once >the APG and IPG disappear)? Eh? No, I don't think so. A second edition APG sometime after the current one is out of print, yes, that's something I have on my sneaky, plot-filled little mind. A combined book? No, I don't think that would work unless people want to pay nearly $30 for a 200+ page book.... > Even making a big deal out of the EPG getting >published (planned for this year, though not anywhere on the schedule yet, >grr...) might be enough. Talk to people in charge of Marketing. O:> >Personally, I'm still waiting for poster-sized prints of the Superiors. I'd >love a Perez version of Michael, Laurence, or Khalid on my wall :) I'd settle for 8x10s that I could frame.... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 18:01:26 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: RE: IN> Finally Saw Dogma At 4:06 PM -0500 1/2/02, Brook Freeman wrote: [...] >I'm picking nits here (and wandering far a field, should probably take this >off list if it continues further) Ah, a breath of _sense_. Accents, dialects, and whether an actor's portrayal of a character is "queer" or not are NOT on topic, and threads about them need to GO AWAY NOW if they have not already done so. Sheesh. - --Beth, List Admin http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/listrules.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 17:17:04 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> LR Question At 1:52 AM +0800 1/3/02, Manny Nepomuceno wrote: >In LR a seed is presented where a high-ranking Servitor of Technology pulls >the wool over everyone's eyes by disguising three Impudites as >artifacts. How is it possible for him to do this? After all, a Prince can >recognize his or her own Servitors on sight, and Beleth, Belial and Nybbas >were explicitly named in the seed. They got turned into Living Artifacts, so their status as Servitors might be in question. Besides, the Princes weren't _looking_ for their own people there -- they were looking at Weird Technology Dog&Pony Show, with lots of Smoke and Mirrors. Or so I'd figure. - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. arcangel is nursing a trout with ARMS! ARMS that reach out and try to pound the keyboard! You say "And teeth. Ow." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 17:59:10 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> LR Question At 1:52 +0800 1/3/02, Manny Nepomuceno wrote: >In LR a seed is presented where a high-ranking Servitor of Technology pulls >the wool over everyone's eyes by disguising three Impudites as >artifacts. How is it possible for him to do this? After all, a Prince can >recognize his or her own Servitors on sight, and Beleth, Belial and Nybbas >were explicitly named in the seed. I don't have the published version in front of me, but my original draft of "The Nybbas Computer" says of the demo: "The gathered observers of the major Powers seemed to be impressed." and then goes on to talk about the changes specific Superiors wanted. The intent was that the Superiors sent representatives to the demo, and did not show up in person. (For one thing, would *you* want a Calabite Prince anywhere near a demo version of a delicate piece of equipment...?) The only relevant Prince who might have been there was Nybbas. Yes, he *could* have recognized a Servitor, but this isn't *necessarily* automatic; my presumption is that he'd have had to actually "look closely" at the purported artifact with Superior senses to recognize that it was, in fact, a weird sort of artifact with one of his demons bound into it. It's also possible that the process of binding the demon into the artifact included some sort of cloaking or smokescreen around this fact, which certainly wouldn't have survived *close* scrutiny by a Superior, but might pass if the Superior didn't spend time really looking at the mechanism of the artifact. Remember also, the first rule of public demos -- "Never invite anyone who will ask inconvenient questions about the man behind the curtain." It would also be a bad idea to invite Superiors other than Nybbas and Vapula,since they could presumably use Superior senses to figure out how the NC worked and duplicate it themselves. As far as Nybbas and Vapula go, it might have been a good idea *not* to include them in the demo audience, either, for two reasons: - If the demo tanked, it wouldn't be *right* in front of the Boss, in public. - The observers could be more certain to have been unbiased without a Prince pushing his view of the world on everyone around. This is likely especially true of Nybbas -- if you sent someone to evaluate the project, would *you* trust the report if Nybbas had been personally involved in the dog and pony show? SFX, baby, SFX! Not to mention the warm fuzzy feeling that an Impudite Prince can give everyone in the vicinity.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 12:48:39 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Re: Mail Order - Attunement for Trade > From: Michael Walton > Subject: Re: IN> New Attunement for Marc > > - --- james walker wrote: >> Mail Order > > Interesting. I can see some major game balance issues > with this, though. And I'm sure that Dominic keeps a VERY > close eye on angels with this Attunement. Thanks for the feedback! Care to elaborate on the game balance issues? Dominic keeps a close eye on everyone, of course, but why these guys in particular - or are you referring to the ease with which he can access Trade's records? Cheers, James. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 21:57:37 EST From: CsHoneyman@aol.com Subject: IN> Historical settings I was thinking of putting together a set of historical settings, namely Roman Empire, Elizabethan or Renaissance. Any ideas on Superiors, setting details and so on? And yes, Archangel Beth, I will be changing to a different mail prog asap unless someone can tell me how to turn off the MIME stuff on AOL... (HINT to any AOL users out there...) :o) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 19:28:33 -0800 From: "Phillip Des Jardins" Subject: Re: IN> Historical settings I thought about this one myself. The renaissance itself wouldn't be too interesting from a strictly Celestial standpoint; by then the line-up is almost as is, with only a few Superiors missing and none actually added. Though it would be nice, if only to see Jean armed with some older Attunements, namely some non-technological ones. It always struck me as odd that he has next to no attunements that actually deal with the more literal end of his Word. Love to see what you come up with. Phillip, the Happy Shiny Mercurian Come on now mister Calabite, don't you think a nice cup of tea would be better than burning that building?" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 22:38:47 EST From: CsHoneyman@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Historical settings IN: Stone Age could be interesting... If a little limited. BTW, love the Sig :o) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 23:10:39 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Angels: The System I'm thinking about making some alterations to my next In Nomine game and I was curious how exactly you think they might go over. I call it Angels: The System (Sadly from a complete computer break down, AH! my goddess, my crazy niece, and the Matrix in one weekend) Here's the Changes I'm making for it The Symphony as inconstant More or less the Symphony which I will be running like a computer system is actually maintained by Angels in this world of In Nomine and disruptions to it such as Disturbance and the Death of Celestials on the world of man result in it malfunctioning which results in natural disasters, disease, and of course very weird incidents (you die in a car wreck but your soul isn't properly collected by the System and your a walking sentient corpse). The vast majority of Angels 80% or so and probably a good number of Saints work at maintaining the system with only a rare .01 percent and those angels on specific missions of their division leaving Heaven to deal with matters regarding it's problems on Earth. The Symphony's Accessibility Every Angel can access the Symphony at any time he particularly wants to and they indeed do so often using songs and rites. However in the Modern Age every Celestial on Earth duty is equipped with some method of accessing it more directly which might be your Archangel but ten times more often is one of the operators. The relics allow instant access to information, contacts, and ine of the funnier aspects the creation of instant tethers (called "Access Ports") in this game for transport to heaven or across the Earth through the system. The information is somewhat staggering and disturbing (if one can wade through all the information) which basically includes that everything you will ever do and have done is planned out from birth and altering it is only celestial intervention. God's presence In this particular game I was thinking of making God the Corporate CEO sort of the universe with an office and ready availability to the people of Heaven but the head of the Symphony is usually out to lunch, meeting, or just absent for whatever reason as a fun part of the Game's premise...I'm currently working on the premise. To steal some from In/MV you can often talk to Jesus in the Vice-president but he's a bit obtuse and likely to send you off doing something that seems completely silly at the time. Human Beings as Angels In this campaign the purpose of the universe is to advance humanity to the next state and though humans rarely catch on many angels debate about it...abeit in private that even God is not particularly the most important being in the universe. Human beings thus when they die must move up from Saints to the Lowest Choir (the Grigori are still part of Heaven and very important as the Watchers-they just no longer are allowed to Leave Heaven save for the banished ones) to mercurians etc before you may choose to go up Jacob's ladder.... Seraphim ascension something quite spectacular. Getting a word or becomming an Archangel is equivalent to becomming a Bodvista in Buddhist Lore, you are giving up the peace of eternity to help others by staying on a bureaucratin the Symphony for potentially eons. Ethereals In this campaign Ethereals are eliminated Entirely for the most part as Spiritual guidence for humanity makes it so the majority of gods, faeries, and the like actually are angels of a sort with the corresponding aspect of demons. The Ethereals however actually take their place as among the weakest of Angels (Reliever status) for the most part with notable legendary exceptions. Fitting the larger role of angels in the universe a great number are in charge in the Veil of actually crafting Dreams every night for human regarding their habits and beings. As one might imagine staring at a monitor all day with a bunch of phones linking you to a human's destiny, etc makes a very boring job. Demons The "Shadow System" As lucifer calls it is the collective hijacked system of the world and a virus which parasitically poisons the universe, spreads death, and otherwise advances the cause of Evil. This is just a cute name for the War in Hell which is to bring down the Symphony around the world's ears which would do all sorts of nasty things such as unite the Earth with the universe, destroy everything, or any number of things. Hell remains a prison for the most part and humans achieving their fate remains one of the few accesses Demons can get to the Earth. In a rip from Dante's inferno whenever a human gives himself wholly to evil individual Demon Princes with their 'pirated software' can replace a human being by removing his soul and putting a demon inside it. The only other method involves sorcery (which can be done by demons) and stealing Angel's access to the Symphony. Tethers are very rare and precacious for demons as well given access to the Shadow Symphony. While in In Nomine there is a strong redemptionist element in this world the fate of Hell should Hell stop being revitalized and distracting them is grizzly clear....the corrupted programs must be eliminated. Thoughts? I'm still working out the bugs and how to change specific Archangels to fit things. - -Charlemagne _________________________________________________________________ Join the world s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 23:50:13 -0500 (EST) From: jamoge@wm.edu Subject: IN> Re: Historical Setting I was thinking of putting together a set of historical settings, namely Roman Empire, Elizabethan or Renaissance. Any ideas on Superiors, setting details and so on? snip Hmm... If my canon-radar isn't off, Uriel basically adopted the Roman Empire and fought off the physical manifestation of it's corruption in the Demon Prince Beelzebub? As for Renaissance, Eli. Jean. Raphael (she's still around right?). And Janus. Lots and lots of Janus. We're talking the end of the dark ages, the beginning of a new era, a truly revolutionary period. See above note for Janus? Elizabethan? Dunno. Might be interesting to see Dominican vs. Asmodean servitors trying to manipulate agents of the mortal courts and Church. Variant ideas, Josh Moger ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 20:56:13 -0800 From: "Phillip Des Jardins" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Historical Setting > As for Renaissance, Eli. Jean. Raphael (she's still > around right?). And Janus. Lots and lots of Janus. > We're talking the end of the dark ages, the beginning > of a new era, a truly revolutionary period. See above > note for Janus? Don't have a GMG, but from what I remember *Thanks Daiv* Raphael bought it fighitng against Legion around 840 AD. And while my european history is a bit sketchy, I'm fairly certain the Renaissance happened later. Janus would definately be a force to be reckoned with here, though. If I'm not mistaken, neither Vapula nor Nybbas would be making an appearance, either. Kronos would still be relatively new, Laurence likewise. Phillip, the Happy Shiny Mercurian "Come on now mister Calabite, don't you think a nice cup of tea would be better than burning that building?" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 06:19:32 +0000 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Finally Saw Dogma He was being pretty camp, though ;) jo >From: "Prodigal" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: >Subject: Re: IN> Finally Saw Dogma >Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 14:26:49 -0600 > >From: "Donato Ranzato" > > > > I based it upon the character he played and not on > > real life. > >What was on the screen indicated a complete absence of sexual inclination >on >the Metatron's part. > _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 06:20:45 +0000 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Introduction Hi Welcome to the list. (And if it helps, I thought the Dogma post was funny.) jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 06:23:17 +0000 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Finally Saw Dogma >From: Earl Wajenberg >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: Re: IN> Finally Saw Dogma >Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 15:40:04 -0500 > >Bevan Thomas wrote: > > > Well, with all fairness, most of the metaphors used to describe the > > relationship between God and humanity is that of a bridegroom to a > > bride. >[...] > > And a lot of Christian imagery pictures God as a bearded patriarch. > >Actually, THE commonest metaphor is to picture God as a king, >with father being a close second. Yes, these masculine images >are where the confusion comes from. Doesn't excuse it. > In Jewish tradition, the Torah is usually viewed as female (ie. the relationship between humanity and Torah is supposed to be like that of a bridegroom to a new bride.) IIRC the male pronoun is usually used for God though: that could be either because the male pronoun is more general than the female, or because it's a fairly patriarchal religion. jo _________________________________________________________________ Join the world s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 00:37:28 -0600 From: "Jamie LaFountain" Subject: IN> Brass & Steel In Nomine MUSH Hey folks. I just wanted to let everyone know that we have an officially licensed In Nomine MUSH (a text-based multi-user roleplaying game) called Brass & Steel. The setting is modern day Kansas City, Missouri and the primary theme is the conflict between David and Malfas, though there are some other players in town such as Eli, Marc, Andrealphus and Fleurity. For those who don't know, a MUSH is a plot-oriented, character-driven online roleplaying game. Unlike the "fancier" Ultima Online, Diablo II, Asheron's Call, etc., MUSHes are purely text-based (and FREE TO PLAY ALL THE TIME). And unlike the less sophisticated text-based MUDs which are all about combat and PK (player killing), MUSHes revolve around story telling and plot development. You can connect to a MUSH by telnetting to it with any telnet capable program (including Internet Explorer). I use a MUSH client called SimpleMU (I have no stake in this program and I do not know the programmer, I just happen to like it) which is available at http://simplemu.onlineroleplay.com/ . You can use it "as is" and it's quite functional or you can pay a small shareware fee to unlock some of the advanced features. Unfortunately, if you're a Mac user, SimpleMU doesn't have a Mac version. You can check out some of the Mac compatible MUSH clients at http://www.macorchard.com/mud.html Because so much of MUSHing is dominated by World of Darkness MUSHes, we have been having a great deal of trouble attracting skilled roleplayers and getting plot lines off the ground. We have been open for nearly a year now and things are still pretty quiet. If we can't turn things around soon, we will sadly probably close the doors. I've watched In Nomine products trickle to a near standstill and the "temporary hiatus" message on the In Nomine website has been unchanged for close to a year now. Help us keep one of the best RPGs alive! Come check out the MUSH. Heck, Beth has been known to pop her head in from time to time whenever she finds one of those rare and precious nuggets of the mystical element known as Free Time. If you've never MUSHed but you're interested in checking out the game, let me know and I'd be glad to help you. The telnet address of the MUSH is swing.erisian.net 2323, or 216.127.139.7 2323. Also, we are hosting a three-part seminar on In Nomine in general and our MUSH specifically at the Online Gaming Resource (it's an Out Of Character MUSH that acts as a sort of clearinghouse for other MUSHes and a meeting place for MUSH enthusiasts) on the following dates: Monday, January 14, 2002 from 9:00 p.m. - 10:00 p.m. U.S. Eastern time: General In Nomine and Brass & Steel Theme Tuesday, January 15, 2002 from 9:00 p.m. - 10:00 p.m. U.S. Eastern time: Divine Forces and the Heavenly War Wednesday, January 16, 2002 from 9:00 p.m. - 10:00 p.m. U.S. Eastern time: Infernal Forces and the War Down Below The telnet address of the Online Gaming Resource is eccles.tzo.net 670, or 24.27.38.88 670. If you have any questions, my e-mail address is jlafountain3@attbi.com. Thanks for taking the time to read this. Jamie LaFountain ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 00:40:59 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Finally Saw Dogma From: "Jo Hart" > > He was being pretty camp, though ;) In that scene, true. Especially when he talked about how ridiculous the faces we mortals make are. *g* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 23:48:31 -0800 From: "Phillip Des Jardins" Subject: Re: IN> Finally Saw Dogma > So, a Shedite Sevitor of Poop... > Anyone want to do a writeup of this Prince? I know I don't :) Actually, Moe Lane (I think) came up with the Angel of Manure, who used to be a Shedite under Saminga. I imagine (if he had the word back then) that his attunement then was the same as it is now, which is to take manure as a vessel. Phillip, the Happy Shiny Mercurian "Come on mister Calabite, don't you think a nice cup of tea would be better than burning down that building?" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 06:17:27 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Re: Mail Order - Attunement for Trade - --- james walker wrote: > Care to elaborate on the game balance issues? > Dominic keeps a close eye on everyone, of course, but why > these guys in particular The two issues are linked. The game balance issue boils down to angels getting toys that the rules don't normally allow them to have (I refer specifically to Attunements, but secret Songs qualify, too). For example, a Cherub of Trade could theoretically use Mail Order a few times, wade into a demonic lair and cut loose with the Malakite of Creation, Malakite of Protection, Seraph of War and Smite Attunements. It doesn't even have to be that drastic; a Mercurian of Trade might decide that the Seraph of Flowers Attunement is what he needs to deal with a particular problem. Basically, this Attunement circumvents the restriction that angels can't have Choir Attunements from different Words except for those of their own Choir. As for Dominic keeping an eye on these guys, consider this; if I saw this potential for abuse, do you think that an Archangel would miss it? ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "It is not the man who has too little, but the man who craves more, that is poor." -- Seneca __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2502 ********************************