in_nomine-digest Thursday, January 10 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2508 In this digest: IN> Re: Echoes & Atlantis question IN> Sephiroth IN> IN Atlantis IN> The Tattered Symphony Re: IN> Echoes IN> Demon of Grave Robbing Re: IN> Demon of Grave Robbing IN> pax question Re: IN> Demon of Grave Robbing Re: IN> pax question IN> [Story] Brothers in Arms Re: IN> pax question Re: IN> pax question Re: IN> [Story] Brothers in Arms Re: IN> pax question Re: IN> pax question Re: IN> pax question Re: IN> pax question Re: IN> pax question Re: IN> [Story] Brothers in Arms ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 19:30:20 +0000 From: "cassandra benner" Subject: IN> Re: Echoes & Atlantis question >For example, Raphael's Echo might very well >have been a historical movement rather than an object, and >it might have taken centuries to develop to its fullest -- >if you call it the Dark Ages. >Michael Walton Well technically the dark ages are really no longer called that. They are the Age of Expansion. This is the period when the worlds (well europe and the near east) political upheaval was a complicated mess. The celts, through to the danes and jutes (amongst other types of the vikings), the moors, the ending of the romano greco period all came to a head and thus the (dark ages) age of expansion was born. Now, for all of the significant time frames there i think has been a heavenly/hellish thing happen. Be it baal and his glory cults, michael and the self same warrior/glory cults, through to the book burnings and destruction of the library of alexandria, the near dominance of the christian church (one denomination or another), and so on. Quite bluntly, when ever there is a ripple in the celestial politics it IS reflected in the earthly world, be it a new word bound, a major shift in the power structure of hell, or just a reliever thwapping michael in a contest. Well, thats just how i see it and how i have read the books. Perhaps i am biased. Who knows/who cares. By the way, does any one have an in game thought about atlantis...? Was it an Oannes/Raphael perfect location or what? Til another time, Cas In Nomine @ http://www.angelfire.com/goth/psyber/i-n.html In Nomine yahoo @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/inveritas ADnD forum @ http://www.drunkendwarfinn.co.uk ADnD stuff @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ADandD_Stuff _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 15:59:40 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Sephiroth Well my guess is that a Angel/Demon/Human who doesn't complete the Sephiroth once he starts on it has already more or less got soul-death and destruction awaiting him. I imagine surviving the process and the power it gives you might be enough to keep you alive but if the process is halted then invariably the "posses" will catch up with you and finish you off. Another penalty is probably massive amounts of dischord for the knowledge that you are not completing your metamorphisis. I liked the Odin thing by the way and think it's really kind of cool. I wonder if Ethereals would be able to use the "tree of life" being potentially soul-less beings in and of themselves. It might rather drastically alter the fortunes of war if it was indeed used in such a way....maybe it has been. *looks at God* - -Charlemagne _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 13:33:27 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: IN> IN Atlantis - --- cassandra benner wrote: > By the way, does any one have an in game thought about > atlantis...? Atlantis would make an interesting wrinkle in an IN: Mare Imbrium campaign (which I've heard nothing about in a while, btw...). ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "It is not the man who has too little, but the man who craves more, that is poor." -- Seneca __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 21:44:07 +0000 From: "Jonathan Walton" Subject: IN> The Tattered Symphony Y'know, I was looking at the Tattered webpage today and wondering why I hadn't posted the address on the list yet. Hell, it's already in the INC. Sure, things are still coming in and some thing have yet to be HTMLed, but there's no reason that other people can't go ahead and start wading through the mass of material that we've created. I'm hoping Moe and the others don't mind :) In case you're one of the people who've remained in the dark about this massive, dark, depressing, angsty creation of Moe's (with the help of a few inmates from here on the list), here ya go: - ---- The Introduction By Maurice Lane First off, it's not a Revolution. They already had the Revolution. Lucifer won. Much good it did him. The Lightbringer managed to convince much of Heaven that his killing of Michael demonstrated the Truth of his position. Propaganda to the contrary (in whatever cosmos you prefer), there were quite a few celestials that simply weren't certain that humanity was worth the favor God was apparently showing them. There were more angels sitting on the sidelines than fighting on the field. When Lucifer emerged, and Michael did not, it seemed obvious to most that the Archangel of Light had been right all along. However, certain Archangels and their followers remained stubbornly true to their beliefs. This presented the victors with a problem: heat of battle aside, killing these dissidents would prove ultimately self-defeating. The silent majority of Heaven hardly wanted to see more bloodshed, after all. Convincing the dissidents quickly proved futile, in the main: while a few of the more ambivalent were swayed, the rest held firm. And, of course, simply letting them roam free would merely start the Revolution all over again ... and there were forces - led by Ogiel, the fallen Michael's chief lieutenant - - crouched outside of Heaven now, eager to begin the fight anew. The only realistic solution was Exile. The Loyalist angels were banished forever, locked in a place where they could never see the Light of Heaven. Yves went with them willingly, although not even Lucifer himself could bear to lay hands on him. Indeed, it is said that he and others tried to convince the Exiles to truly surrender up to the last second. Lucifer's only reward for this effort was a sad shaking of the head from Yves ... and the spittle of Novalis in his eye. The others fared no better as their former brothers and sisters were locked away. In the end, the only thing that Heaven could do was to adjust to the new order of things (admittedly, some better than others). And, at first so quietly that no one could hear it, the Symphony began to slowly unravel By the time an increasingly desperate Lilith broke the Exiles out of Hades, the situation was grave. The Symphony had degraded over time: already it was impossible for anyone to reach the Higher Heavens, and many the Host had begun to go mad from their inability to stop the corruption of reality itself. With the help of Ogiel (now a Superior in fact, if not in name), she was able to warp time and space itself and prove her own worthiness for her eventual Word. She found the Exiles ... changed. Of the great ones, Blandine had become silent, David had visibly given up, Dominique had blinded herself, Novalis was cold and Uriel was colder. Only Eli, Janus, Oannes and Raphael seemed still stable. And Yves was dead. A motley bunch to challenge the reconstituted Seraphim Council, the Heavenly Host and Lucifer, Regent of Heaven ... but they were ready to try. They're still trying, despite their losses - and despite the fact that the hidden insanity of Janus was revealed in a way that threatens to make the entire matter moot. The Symphony is still degrading, you see ... and nobody's sure about how to stop it. Nobody's even sure if it's possible to stop it. Welcome to the world of the Tattered Symphony. There are no known demons, no Undead, no awkward Grigori to explain away and almost no ethereal blood on angelic hands. It looks like everyone's doomed, anyway. - ---- http://www.godmachine.org/tattered/ for the whole scoop. Big stuff is still on the way, including Nybbas, Israfel, and Lucifer himself. Big thanks go out to the creators of Tattered (people who have put in hours of time cranking out some amazing stuff): Moe Lane, Eric Burns, Prodigal, EDG, Manny Nepomuceno, Neel Krishnaswami, Rev. Pee Kitty, Matt Walsh, Imran Inayat, Beth McCoy, Charles Smith, James Walker, Ryan Elias, Ben Acosta, Phillip Barkow, and myself, Jonathan Walton. For those interested in getting involved, continuing to develop the Tattered universe, there's information on the page about joining the Tattered Mailing List and becoming a part of things. In the next month or so, I'm also going to be starting up a Tattered PBeM game, based out of the "World Weavers In Nomine" group of games that I'm the World Admin for. Anyone interested can e-mail me to reserve a spot, but further annoucements will be made on the list. There may also be other games starting up (both PBeMs and face-to-face). We'll keep you posted. Later. Jonathan _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 18:34:11 -0500 From: "S.D." Subject: Re: IN> Echoes ...you're setting up shop in my head too, Moe? Great, now I need to build *another* apartment building up there. ^^; (Explaination: about half an hour ago, I was plotting something with 'echoes' of Soul-death. Mostly Superior-level. No details/game mechanics yet, but it was generally that an 'echo' could be raised where a soul-death occured, identifying Choir/Band and Word if Celestial, general 'of-what'-ness if Ethereal, and...don't know what yet for human. Something like a sense of heat and swift wind for an Ofanite of Gabriel, a vague sense that someone's looking over your shoulder and a feeling of chains for a Djinn of Asmodeus, etc. Thus, Moe is clearly the...tenth or so person to set up shop in my head. Apparently, the rent's cheap and the furniture's nice. ^^) ~S.D. Ryukage ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Ask Yves." "I doubt he'd give me a straight answer." [pause] [*eyes* Eli again] "Unless you mean it's Destiny, in which case I will most likely hit you at some point for the pun." "It's still fun to ask." "Besides, hard to track him down if you can't get into the Library." [pause] [mutters] "Though with my apparant luck, he'll sneak up on me within the week. If it's particularly bad, I'll be in Shal-Mari when he does..." Eli, Archangel of Creation, and Jesimiel, Balseraph of Dark Humor, 'Balseraphs Have More Fun' ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 22:26:08 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Demon of Grave Robbing "Grave: A place in which the dead are laid to await the coming of the medical student." - The Devil's Dictionary, Ambrose Bierce. Jeqon Demon of Grave Robbing Djinn "Inspector": Captain of Technology CORPOREAL FORCES: 5 Strength: 12 Agility: 8 ETHEREAL FORCES: 5 Intelligence: 8 Precision: 12 CELESTIAL FORCES: 5 Will: 12 Perception: 8 WORD FORCES - 6 Vessel: Male Human/5, Role/6 (Mortician)/5; Female Human Red Head/6, Charisma +3, Role/3 (Athletic Eccentric English Noblewoman)/6. Skills: Artistry(Embalming)/1, Climbing/3, Dodge/4, Driving/2, Engineering/1, Escape/1, Fast-Talk/1, Fighting/4, Knowledge(Archaeology/4), Lockpicking/1, Medicine/4, Move Silently/6, Running/6, Swimming/1, Tactics/1. Songs: Healing (Corporeal)/6, Motion(All/6). Attunements: Djinn of Theft; Distract; All of Vapula's Attunements; Inspector; The Demon of Grave Robbing. Special Rites: Loot a corpse; Plunder a mausoleum or pyramid; steal a corpse; sell a corpse or skeleton; illicitly remove blood or organs from a corpse. Archaic Rite: Fire a steam locomotive with mummies. Special Abilities: While Jeqon is attuned to a corpse (or part thereof), it does not decay - unfortunately his Vessel decays instead! However this is useful for preserving body parts. Jeqon started as in the service of Valefor. Sent to earth as a ribald, he began by looting the dead from battlefields, before moving on to looting tombs. Valefor sponsored him for the Word of Grave Robbing as much to spite Saminga as anything else; something he didn't bother to explain to Jeqon. Several centuries and countless assassination attempts later, Jeqon jumped ship, realising that his Word would be more powerful under Vapula. When Valefor caught up with his ex-Servitor a few decades later, Jeqon's flippant explanation of "Vapula stole me" resulted in him being slapped into Trauma, but amused Valefor enough for him to leave Jeqon his attunements - although not his Knight Distinction. Serving Technology has been a pleasant time for Jeqon. Although Saminga still wants him dead, earning the Reanimation attunement made his Word much more fun. Also, the countless need for bodies for dissection by medical students has granted his Word a fundamental importance previously lacking, and the discredit this brought the medical establishment made him many friends in Hell. He was able to use that extra importance to make plundering graves - well pyramids, anyway - highly respectable, and finally acquired the status he had previously lacked. Being seen in public with the Demon of Jewel Robberies was the first high point of his career - he was careful to look respectable in his tweeds and pith helmet - and marked him as a demon on the make. The future continues to look good for Jeqon as well. Although the 20th Century was fairly boring, the 21st century promises more. Firstly, transplants have created a black market in body parts - which Jeqon is ideally suited to fulfil. Secondly, the spread of computer games has created a new niche for Jeqon - and granted him a new Role. He has been handing out his Rites to the responsible demons serving Technology & The Media as rewards ever since. =========================================================== Cheers, James. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 19:51:12 -0500 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Demon of Grave Robbing My only question is, what does the Angel of Archeology think of this? - -- Casca "Many people hear voices when no-one is there. Some of them are called mad and are shut up in rooms where they stare at the walls all day. Others are called writers and they do pretty much the same thing." --Margaret Chittenden, writer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 20:27:11 -0500 From: "Tyler Childers" Subject: IN> pax question Would there be any objection to a Ethereal Spirit "evolving" into a Celelstial ArchAngel? From, like , you guys. Or from the Symphony at most? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 18:15:04 -0800 From: "Phillip Des Jardins" Subject: Re: IN> Demon of Grave Robbing > My only question is, what does the Angel of Archeology think of this? I'm envisioning a Seraph of Litheroy putting on some war paint right about now. Phillip, the Happy Shiny Mercurian "Hey! That's not what we use vessels for, mister!" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 19:31:10 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> pax question - --- Tyler Childers wrote: > Would there be any objection to a Ethereal Spirit > "evolving" into a > Celelstial ArchAngel? > > From, like , you guys. HEATHEN! BLASPHEMER! HERETIC! (pause) Sure, go ahead. ;) > Or from the Symphony at most? Well, that'll depend on whether or not YHWH got H/his start the same way in your campaign. Certainly the ethereal gods insist that H/he was once just like them, until he tapped into some cosmic juice or something: if that's true, then somebody /else/ could theoretically learn the same trick, if on a lesser scale... Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 01/01/02(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:59:02 +0100 From: "Donato Ranzato" Subject: IN> [Story] Brothers in Arms Okay, here is my very first In Nomine story. I am not a great writer and on top of that I don't write in my native language. So, please be gentle with me :-) I hope you like this story and I welcome any feedback. Donato - ------------------------------------------ Brothers in Arms A lone figure stood immobile in the thin rays of the setting sun. He looked at the large crater that was created by the massive force of a clusterbomb. A strong was blowing across the dessert sand. He was clad in military clothes covered in dust, grime and sand, his hair in a ponytail, a massive battle-axe strapped to his back. His mind lost in deep thought. In the distance a man walked towards him. The heatwaves from the warm sand made him look like a shimmering mirage. Only when he was just a few paces away did the lone figure look up, a frown played across his forehead. The newly arrived man was clad in an expensive business suit. His skin was flawless and he radiated power and exquisite beauty. His clothes, skin and hair were spotless, not a grain of sand or dust was on it, even though he just walked for miles through the dessert. "What do you want?" the soldier said his voice betraying his anger. "There is no need to be aggressive, my brother. I just came here to talk." The man said. "It has been so long ago that we talked. Do you remember the long discussions we had? I miss them." "That is too bad. I hope you don't think that you can sway me over to come to your side. I kicked your butt once, I can do so again. Come one step closer and I will kick your ass to Kingdom Come. And I mean that literally, my brother." The sarcastic pronunciation of that last word didn't go unnoticed. "Yes, I know. You don't have to remind me of that painful episode." A thin smile appeared in the beautiful face of the man. "But now that you raised that topic, I just want to remind you that your victory over me was not my defeat but in fact made me what I am today. A God." "Blasphemy! You are not a God, Morningstar. You are nothing more than an impostor. A delusional angel that rules over a petty and tyrannical kingdom." "Aaah, but that is what you think. What is more important is what those hairless apes on this world think and believe. They see me as a God, maybe an Anti-God, but still a God that stands on equal foot as our father." "So, what has that to do with me?" The soldier became impatient. "Well, everything and nothing." The Morningstar lit up a cigarette. The sun had now almost disappeared behind the horizon. The flames of the cigarette-lighter lit up his face. In the glow it almost seemed his eyes were like those of a snake. "How come I am a God while you were - and are - more powerful than me? Why are you content with living in the shadow of our dad, while you could carve out a glorious destiny of your own. I know you have questioned the wisdom of staying in Heaven. Because of Yves and Dominic you have decided to spend more time here on earth than up in Elysium. It is all politics nowadays and I know you are disgusted by it." With the last rays of sunlight gone both figures stood silhouetted against the night sky. A million stars glowed in the heavens. "Morningstar, do you really think that those arguments can confuse me enough that I will choose your side? No matter what is going on in Heaven I still fight the good fight. Only the knowledge that Baal is fighting on your side is enough to convince me to stay in Heaven and do everything in my power to stop him. I have vowed to destroy him and you know I will succeed." "Yes, Michael, I know you will succeed. You have never lost a battle and you never will. But I don't want you to come over to my side. You are far too powerful and wise to make such a stupid choice. Yes, you know I speak the truth. Why do you look so surprised? You are still my brother and I love you, no matter what happened in the past. I just want the best for you." The soldier was confused. His resonance told him that his brother was speaking the truth. Even though the man standing opposite of him was the most powerful liar in existence, his perception of the truth was more powerful. "So, what is best for me?" The soldier put all of his mental defences up. "Michael, you are the most powerful being in existence save for our father. You have spend millennia in the lower heavens, quarrelled in the Seraphim Council, being backstabbed by your fellow Archangels and what has it accomplished? Nothing. You know how you can defeat Baal, you know the best strategy to win this War but Heaven is lost in petty politics, infighting, backstabbing and apathy. They don't want to listen to you. I know how it feels as I felt the same so long ago. Believe it or not but I had to rebel. It was't really my choice. Just like a teenager who needs to get away from his parents to start his own life, make his own decisions, so it was my role to give angels and humans the chance to choose their own loves, make their own decisions. When dad created free will, he also created a vacuum in Creation. Somebody had to step in and fill that vacuum. I had to rebel. He must have known." The soldier turned his back towards his brother. "Don't play the victim-role with me. You rebelled because you wanted to play God. You thought you knew better. You didn't like the way Heaven was running things and you came to the conclusion that you had all the answers." The smile disappeared from the face of the man. "And in what way is that different from your situation?" The soldier didn't reply. Minutes went by before he spoke again. "Because I love my father and I don't want to hurt him." "What kind of father is hurt by the decision of his son to go out into the world and start his own life? Michael, you have lived for too long under the yoke of our father. It is time you got your own life. Not by coming over to my side as that would still limit your progress. No, you should carve out your own piece in Creation and do the things you know are wise and that need to be done. You can win this War but only when you are not held back by your colleagues or our father." Michael was silent. "Why do you think Yves is holding you back? Why do you think Dominic tried to limit your influence in Heaven? Because they both know that you are too powerful for them and that your destiny lies elsewhere. They don't want to see you go and that is why they struck a deal to obstruct you in everything you try to do. You will not accomplish anything if you stay in Heaven and you know it. You have known this for a long time. That is why you agreed that young Laurence became the master of the Heavenly Forces. You have trained him well and now he is fit enough to carry your torch. You can step down now in the knowledge that everything is taken care of when you leave. And now that time has come." Michael turned around and looked his brother straight in his eyes. "And you have come to help me with this? Why? What is your stake in this? I know you Morningstar, you do nothing unless it is in your best interests." Now it was the other man's turn to be silent. "Yes, that is true. But not because you think it is. I love you. You are still my brother. I have never forgotten the glorious days when we were together, united in Heaven. We were the most beautiful and powerful angels in Creation. There was nothing we couldn't do. We were the epitome of Heavenly beauty and grace. Yes, you "kicked my butt" but brothers do that all the time and to be true I deserved it. Nevertheless, I managed to find the strength to go out into the world and as a kind of older brother I want to help you now that your time has come. I have made plenty of mistakes and learned a lot from my exile and I don't want for you to make the same mistakes. There is room in Creation for both of us, and father. I give Angels and humans the choice between Good and Evil, you can give them the choice between Right and Wrong. I know that you worry about father but if he really deserves your love than he will accept that his beloved son wants to do what he feels is right. You have to walk your own path. Its the only way you can make a difference. I know you have the strength and bravery to make that decision." Michael was silent for a long while before he spoke again, "Please brother, tell me more..." The end (or is it?) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 07:23:22 EST From: CsHoneyman@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> pax question > --- Tyler Childers wrote: > > Would there be any objection to a Ethereal Spirit > > "evolving" into a > > Celelstial ArchAngel? Didn't you do this already, Moe? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 05:33:20 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> pax question - --- Tyler Childers wrote: > Would there be any objection to a Ethereal Spirit > "evolving" into a Celelstial ArchAngel? According to canon, it can't happen. That is, not unless the Ethereals' version of why God is so powerful is true. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "It is not the man who has too little, but the man who craves more, that is poor." -- Seneca __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 05:48:44 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> [Story] Brothers in Arms Hmmmm. Intriguing... ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "It is not the man who has too little, but the man who craves more, that is poor." -- Seneca __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 09:35:32 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> pax question Tyler Childers wrote: > Would there be any objection to a Ethereal Spirit "evolving" into a > Celelstial ArchAngel? > > From, like , you guys. Or from the Symphony at most? Depends on what you mean by "evolving." The canon includes some "natural" and some "artificial" changes of state for characters: - Relievers and imps naturally develop into angels and demons. - Humans die naturally and thus become disembodied spirits. - Angels can fall "naturally" (that is, by their own efforts) and become demons of the opposite band. - Acquiring new Forces may happen "naturally" -- that is, without anyone but the acquirer doing anything to make it happen -- but I don't recall for sure. - Superiors can fiddle with servitors, within broad limits. - Archangels can redeem demons. - God, Lucifer, and the Seraphim Council can hand out Words and Superior status (or maybe the Council just asks God, Who does the actual handing out). Changing your native realm, like a change from Ethereal to Celestial (not to mention Archangel) is NOT one of the standard changes of state. But this is a game in which God sometimes takes direct action, so, yeah, sure. If God wants to change an Ethereal spirit into an Archangel, it can happen. It'll surprise the, um, Purgatory out of the Seraphim Council, because it's never happened before, but it can happen. The magic word here is "omnipotence." Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:36:58 -0400 (AST) From: Philip Vincent Barkow Subject: Re: IN> pax question On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Michael Walton wrote: > > --- Tyler Childers wrote: > > Would there be any objection to a Ethereal Spirit > > "evolving" into a Celelstial ArchAngel? > > According to canon, it can't happen. That is, not unless > the Ethereals' version of why God is so powerful is true. Which would therefore make it an area of Canon Doubt and Uncertainty as opposed to canon stating it can't happen. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 08:55:38 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> pax question Philip Vincent Barkow wrote: > > According to canon, it can't happen. That is, not unless > > the Ethereals' version of why God is so powerful is true. > > Which would therefore make it an area of Canon Doubt and Uncertainty as > opposed to canon stating it can't happen. Well, yes and no. It's CDaU whether or not celestials are ethereals with some extra juice. However, officially ethereals CANNOT become celestials, just as mortals cannot. As Earl pointed out, though, when God gets involved directly, all bets are off. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:03:58 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> pax question Earl Wajenberg wrote: > > Tyler Childers wrote: > > > Would there be any objection to a Ethereal Spirit "evolving" into a > > Celelstial ArchAngel? [...] > If God wants to change an Ethereal spirit into > an Archangel, it can happen. [...] The magic word here is > "omnipotence." Oh, and of course God can do it fast or slow, just as He chooses, so if "evolving" means *gradually* becoming an Archangel, sure, why not? It'll just make one more difference from the usual rapid change of state when an angel gets elevated to Archangel. (Anyone care to hazzard what that *looks* like? My spontanteous impression is of some solemn ceremony in the chambers of the Seraphim Council, along the lines of, "...and we beseach Thee, Almighty God, to elevate this, Thy servant Pamela, to the station of Archangel, so that she may better serve Thee..." followed by a blast of light from Above and the angel in question now appearing as a slightly dazed new Archangel.) Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 15:13:11 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> pax question >From: Earl Wajenberg >Subject: Re: IN> pax question >Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:03:58 -0500 [snip] >(Anyone care to hazzard what that *looks* like? My spontanteous >impression is of some solemn ceremony in the chambers of the >Seraphim Council, along the lines of, "...and we beseach Thee, >Almighty God, to elevate this, Thy servant Pamela, to the station >of Archangel, so that she may better serve Thee..." followed by >a blast of light from Above and the angel in question now appearing >as a slightly dazed new Archangel.) I always had an impression similar to what Moe wrote for the Superior Ascensions in his Oops Cycle -- a full meeting of the Seraphim Council, the Light Of Heaven shining down at the climactic point, a sudden overwhelmingly harmonious surge in the Symphony, and then it fades... leaving behind Shiny New Archangel with their eyes glowing with awe and their celestial form just plain glowing. - -- Chuckg _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 12:31:39 -0700 From: "Ruth Evers" Subject: Re: IN> [Story] Brothers in Arms Beautiful- subtle- oh, please write more! (I'm jealous!) Kariel, Dominican Mercurian of Flowers, Vassal of War, Petitioner for the Word of Salvation _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2508 ********************************