in_nomine-digest Monday, January 14 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2512 In this digest: IN> Questions about Kyriotates and Shedim Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> Questions about Kyriotates and Shedim Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... IN> Dallas TX Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... IN> London Sourcebook Re: IN> London Sourcebook Re: IN> Neon Genesis Evangelion ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 06:00:43 -0800 (PST) From: Phil Vecchione Subject: IN> Questions about Kyriotates and Shedim Hi, I am a new GM to the game, and only have the IN core rules. But I have a few questions about Kyriotates and Shedim when the possess humans. 1. How do you figure out Body Hits? Is it the Body Hits from the person they possessed, or is it calculated some other way, since Body Hits= (vessel level + corporeal forces) x Str. 2. If a Kyriotate or Shedim possess a human cop, do either get to use the cop's role as a cop, like someone who purchased a the Cop Role during character creation? If so what is the level of the Role for the host, for determining if the Symphony has been disturbed, by the Celestial's actions. Any help would be great. I get this list by digest, so if someone replies, please cc it to my regular account as well, so I don't have to wait all day to see what the answer is. Thanks. ===== ___________________________________________________________ Phil Vecchione E-Mail: dnaphil@yahoo.com ___________________________________________________________ "Are you a people person?" --Tasty Ghoul Ad 2021 Back by popular demand: "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 09:02:41 EST From: CsHoneyman@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... In a message dated 14/01/02 13:59:16 GMT Standard Time, thunderdog_sa@yahoo.com writes: > Yup, the misinformation shows. };> Actually, it's not misiniformation. But your cultural programming shows :p > Which probably annoys the Hindu Pantheon to no end; they lose more Buddhas >that way... Minor nitpick in the offing - Hinduism and Buddhism are separate religions with some very different ideas. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 06:09:32 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... - --- CsHoneyman@aol.com wrote: > Actually, it's not misiniformation. But your cultural > programming shows :p Heh. We'll have to agree to disagree on that one (though I put more faith in archaeologists than televangelists, myself). > Minor nitpick in the offing - Hinduism and Buddhism are > separate religions > with some very different ideas. Quite so. But in IN, that one pantheon covers both religions. That's even true to some degree in the real world; the legends of the Buddha originated with Hinduism, remember. Buddhists are the folks who believe that Siddhartha was indeed the promised Enlightened One just as Christians are those who believe that Y'shua was the Christ. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 Existential fast food slogan: "Why's the beef?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 09:19:53 EST From: CsHoneyman@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... In a message dated 14/01/02 14:11:36 GMT Standard Time, thunderdog_sa@yahoo.com writes: > Heh. We'll have to agree to disagree on that one (though > I put more faith in archaeologists than televangelists, > myself). I don't put any faith in them (archaeologists) - if they have the evidence, who needs faith? I'd be interested in seeing any 'childhood house' of Jesus or at least the documentary evidence, and how they arrived at the conclusion that it was the house, and how they actually arrived at the conclusion that Jesus existed based on such flimsy evidence... Woops. Sorry. I just get going sometimes :o) Quite so. But in IN, that one pantheon covers both > religions. Disgraceful state of affairs. I shall write to my MP and complain. Sorry, that was English humour there. I won't do it again :p > That's even true to some degree in the real > world; the legends of the Buddha originated with Hinduism, > remember. True, although the gods of Hinduism are more like elevated humans than what we would normally call gods per se - it's a common Buddhist belief that the gods are as subject to death and reincarnation as the next creature, and also that gods cannot attain enlightenment. > Buddhists are the folks who believe that > Siddhartha was indeed the promised Enlightened One just as > Christians are those who believe that Y'shua was the > Christ. I dunno about promised... The whole basis of Buddhism is different to Hinduism in the first place. In fact, if you look at it, the whole idea of a personality that strong is antithetical to Buddhism anyway... JK According to the various sects, anyway, the 'Buddha' is either a) a bona fide person gone to nirvana, or b) a cosmic principle. Actually, the whole cosmic principle idea would mesh nicely with the IN universe - maybe the Buddha was actually Yves or one of the other divine avatars in disguise... Is there a patron AA of Buddhism? Could we make one? :o) The AA of Harmony or some such. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 08:37:56 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Michael Walton wrote: > Heh. We'll have to agree to disagree on that one (though > I put more faith in archaeologists than televangelists, > myself). Biblical archeology is an interesting field, but they have not, AFAIK, conclusively proven the existence of Jesus. > > Minor nitpick in the offing - Hinduism and Buddhism are > > separate religions > > with some very different ideas. > > Quite so. But in IN, that one pantheon covers both > religions. Say what? Where do you get that? > That's even true to some degree in the real > world; the legends of the Buddha originated with Hinduism, > remember. Buddhists are the folks who believe that > Siddhartha was indeed the promised Enlightened One just as > Christians are those who believe that Y'shua was the > Christ. I think you need a primer on Buddhism and Hinduism. There is some overlap between their belief systems and mythologies because they both originated in the same country (though Buddhism is a tiny minority in India today), but they are substantially DIFFERENT religions. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 09:37:14 EST From: CsHoneyman@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... In a message dated 14/01/02 14:36:09 GMT Standard Time, amadan@amadan.org writes: > I think you need a primer on Buddhism and Hinduism. There is some > overlap between their belief systems and mythologies because they both > originated in the same country (though Buddhism is a tiny minority in > India today), but they are substantially DIFFERENT religions. > Well said that man. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 18:04:28 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Questions about Kyriotates and Shedim >1. How do you figure out Body Hits? Is it the Body >Hits from the person they possessed, or is it >calculated some other way, since Body Hits= (vessel >level + corporeal forces) x Str. iirc, the Body hits of a Kyrio/Shedite never change, you always use their CorpxStr . . . huh, I guess this makes them weaker than any other celestial. In the core rules, humans have a Vessel rating equal to their Corp forces, no? Personally, I would use that rating as the Flesh-rider's effective Vessel rating. In Night Music and the Corporeal Players Guide, iirc, humans no longer have Vessel ratings, instead they can have levels of Toughness . . . if using these rules, I'd grant the Flesh-rider the benefit of these levels of Toughness. I don't know or care if this suggestions are canon, but they seem sound to me. >2. If a Kyriotate or Shedim possess a human cop, do >either get to use the cop's role as a cop, like >someone who purchased a the Cop Role during character >creation? If so what is the level of the Role for the >host, for determining if the Symphony has been >disturbed, by the Celestial's actions. I don't believe so, according to the rules, but that's a neat idea. Of course, it would make the Flesh-riders even more powerful, as it would make them even more difficult to detect and track. >Any help would be great. I get this list by digest, >so if someone replies, please cc it to my regular >account as well, so I don't have to wait all day to >see what the answer is. Done. - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos est le moyen le plus simple de partager et imprimer vos photos : http://photos.msn.fr/Support/WorldWide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 10:26:07 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... - --- CsHoneyman@aol.com wrote: > I don't put any faith in them (archaeologists) - if they > have the evidence, who needs faith? What, can't a guy use metaphors around here? :> > I'd be interested in seeing any 'childhood house' of > Jesus or at least the documentary evidence Discovery Channel did a special on Jesus a few months ago; that's where I found out about it. The title escapes me at the moment; I'll see if I can track it down. > Is there a > patron AA of Buddhism? Could we make one? :o) The AA of > Harmony or some such. I don't see why not; even in canon, Buddhism is considered a divine religion. There's no canonical AA of Buddhism, of course, but I can't see Novalis objecting to a religion that promotes peace as strongly as Buddhism does. Maybe the Angel of Buddhism works for Flowers. If you want to write up an AA of Harmony (or Enlightenment; that's the way I'd go), feel free. I look forward to reading it. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 Existential fast food slogan: "Why's the beef?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 12:34:29 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Michael Walton wrote: > Discovery Channel did a special on Jesus a few months > ago; that's where I found out about it. The title escapes > me at the moment; I'll see if I can track it down. There are documentaries about Jesus all the time, where archeologists try to trace his life and point out this or that place that's believed to be where he lived or was born or got crucified, etc. It's still mostly speculative, though, and will probably remain so forever. (I kinda doubt we'll ever be able to get a DNA sample....) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 10:32:46 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... - --- David Edelstein wrote: > I think you need a primer on Buddhism and Hinduism. There > is some > overlap between their belief systems and mythologies > because they both > originated in the same country (though Buddhism is a tiny > minority in > India today), but they are substantially DIFFERENT > religions. I never meant to imply otherwise. The two belief systems do share some common origins, however, and even some common doctrine. To say that they're the same relgion is as misguided as to deny the relationship between them. Hinduism and Buddhism are as different -- and as alike -- as Christianity and Judaism. As to the IN connection between them, that has everything to do with the common origins. Just as the first Christians were converted Jews, the first Buddhists were converted Hindus. Those converts made significant changes in their manner of worship, but they did not completely scrap their old belief system (time and geography made more changes, of course; Buddhism in China is a very different thing from Buddhism in India). That connection to the faith of the original converts would give the Hindu Ethereals an "in" with Buddhists. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 Existential fast food slogan: "Why's the beef?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 19:40:10 +0100 From: "Donato Ranzato" Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... From: "Michael Walton" > I don't see why not; even in canon, Buddhism is > considered a divine religion. There's no canonical AA of > Buddhism, of course, but I can't see Novalis objecting to a > religion that promotes peace as strongly as Buddhism does. > Maybe the Angel of Buddhism works for Flowers. If you want > to write up an AA of Harmony (or Enlightenment; that's the > way I'd go), feel free. I look forward to reading it. Maybe each "world religion" is being promoted by some Archangel and they strive to have their religion become the dominant one. The influence of the religions shows the power of the Archangel. Laurence - Christianity Khalid - Islam Novalis - Buddhism Jean - Scientology David - Freemasonry Dominic - Judaism or Christianity (yes, this is different from canon) Eli - Paganism Just some random musings, Donato ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 13:41:16 -0500 (EST) From: Ryan M Roth Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, David Edelstein wrote: > (I kinda doubt we'll ever be able to get a DNA sample....) > Sounds like a good adventure seed. A scientist gets his hands on an old wooden cup with a bit of dried blood in it. He analyzes it, finds that it is unlike any DNA he's ever come across, and decides to clone it. Many, many times. Thus we have: Second Coming: Attack of the Clones Or some such thing :) Ryan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 12:45:38 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Michael Walton wrote: > Hinduism and Buddhism are as different -- and as alike -- > as Christianity and Judaism. No. Far more different. > That connection to the > faith of the original converts would give the Hindu > Ethereals an "in" with Buddhists. Except that you're wrong. See the GMG. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 10:48:09 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... - --- David Edelstein wrote: > There are documentaries about Jesus all the time, where > archeologists > try to trace his life and point out this or that place > that's believed > to be where he lived or was born or got crucified, etc. > It's still > mostly speculative, though, and will probably remain so > forever. (I > kinda doubt we'll ever be able to get a DNA sample....) Gotta agree with you about the DNA sample. As to the locations, they're on firmer ground with some of those (they KNOW where Nazareth and Capernaum were, for example). There's enough evidence out there that looking into the historicity of Jesus is now considered real science. As for the divinity of Jesus, that's still a matter of faith. Of course, that bit of uncertainty is crucial to IN. After all, Celestials know that Jesus existed and many believe that he was indeed divine. Proof to that effect would pretty much win the War for Heaven, so angels have a strong incentive for pointing mortals toward evidence of that nature. Demons have an equally strong incentive for destroying, concealing or discrediting such evidence. In the IN world, the doubt about the existence of Jesus would be at least in part due to demonic interference with objective inquiry. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 Existential fast food slogan: "Why's the beef?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 18:54:19 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... >From: "Donato Ranzato" >Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... >Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 19:40:10 +0100 [snip] >Jean - Scientology Good Lord, *no*. Scientology has nothing to do with science, or any other kind of remotely rational thought. Scientology is the sort of thing that Nybbas and Kobal would come up with after pulling an all-nighter with a case of Chivas, with Kronos contributing a few tweaks of his master's touch. Rather than go massively OT, I'll just direct you to: http://www.xenu.net This site should be able to tell you more about Scientology than you never wanted to know. [snip] >David - Freemasonry David -- IMO, anything that works. David is an Equal Opportunity Community Builder... he could care less why a fraternity of people are brought together, so long as they're: a) not ultimately working against the cause of Heaven and b) together. >Dominic - Judaism or Christianity (yes, this is different from canon) >Eli - Paganism Eli -- my own vision of the Archangel of Creation is that he's not the type to put all of his eggs in *any* one basket. - -- Chuckg _________________________________________________________________ Join the world s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 10:59:00 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... - --- Ryan M Roth wrote: > Second Coming: Attack of the Clones The Malakim will be at your door shortly, Ryan. 0:> ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 Existential fast food slogan: "Why's the beef?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 13:10:42 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Donato Ranzato wrote: > Maybe each "world religion" is being promoted by some Archangel and they > strive to have their religion become the dominant one. The influence of the > religions shows the power of the Archangel. > > Laurence - Christianity Specifically, Catholicism. > Khalid - Islam Yes. > Novalis - Buddhism She probably likes Buddhism, but she likes all peaceful religions (she's undoubtedly fond of Quakers too). > Jean - Scientology Scientology isn't even remotely scientific. Kobal is more likely. > David - Freemasonry Not exactly a religion, but yeah. > Dominic - Judaism or Christianity (yes, this is different from canon) Not really. He approves of both, just considers Catholicism to be the most effective version. > Eli - Paganism Not unless you're claiming that Eli actually supports ethereal worship. What makes paganism more "creative" than any other religion, anyway? And which version of "paganism"? - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 10:57:44 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... - --- Donato Ranzato wrote: > Maybe each "world religion" is being promoted by some > Archangel That may well be so of the divine religions, but I can't see Heaven promoting non-divine religions. That definitely leaves out paganism, and there's even some doubt as to whether Scientology and Freemasonry qualify as religions. As for the prominence of a particular religion indicating the influence of its patron AA, that leaves us with some problems in integrating RL history with IN canon. If that were the case, how did European Christians become so prominent on the world stage during a time (the Age of Exploration) when they were badly outnumbered by Asian Buddhists? And wouldn't that preponderance of Buddhists have made Novalis the most powerful Archangel? And then there's the Eli question -- do you really see him promoting just one religion? 0:> ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 Existential fast food slogan: "Why's the beef?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 13:15:23 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Michael Walton wrote: > As to > the locations, they're on firmer ground with some of those > (they KNOW where Nazareth and Capernaum were, for example). Well yes, and they also know where Bethlehem is. That doesn't prove Jesus was there. > There's enough evidence out there that looking into the > historicity of Jesus is now considered real science. "Looking into" any historical/mythical figure is within the province of science. > Of course, that bit of uncertainty is crucial to IN. > After all, Celestials know that Jesus existed and many > believe that he was indeed divine. Proof to that effect > would pretty much win the War for Heaven, Why? > so angels have a> strong incentive for pointing mortals toward evidence of> that nature. Why? Not all angels do believe that Jesus was divine. > In> the IN world, the doubt about the existence of Jesus would > be at least in part due to demonic interference with > objective inquiry. In a Christian IN world, yes. The actual canonical IN world leaves it as CDaU what "objective inquiry" would really turn up. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 13:21:18 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Michael Walton wrote: > And then> there's the Eli question -- do you really see him promoting > just one religion? 0:> Canonically, he helped foster the early growth of monotheism. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 19:19:58 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... >From: Michael Walton >Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... >Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 10:57:44 -0800 (PST) [snip] >As for the prominence of a particular religion indicating >the influence of its patron AA, that leaves us with some >problems in integrating RL history with IN canon. If that >were the case, how did European Christians become so >prominent on the world stage during a time (the Age of >Exploration) when they were badly outnumbered by Asian >Buddhists? And wouldn't that preponderance of Buddhists >have made Novalis the most powerful Archangel? Maybe she is, but she's just too modest to let anybody else know. *eg* - -- Chuckg _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 14:22:16 -0500 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... >After all, Celestials know that Jesus existed and many >believe that he was indeed divine. Proof to that effect >would pretty much win the War for Heaven, so angels have a >strong incentive for pointing mortals toward evidence of >that nature. Snip Perhaps only in David Edelstein's frightening "Jack Chick In Nomine" world. In canon IN proof of Jesus' divinity would just as likely come from Malphas as it would from Laurence. Josh ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 20:24:07 +0100 From: "Donato Ranzato" Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... From: "David Edelstein" > > Jean - Scientology > > Scientology isn't even remotely scientific. Kobal is more likely. Yes, true. But Sientology does have all these machines and gadgets which supposedly makes you smarter and more in tune with reality. Maybe its Kobal or maybe Jean's version of a divine science makes other people laugh out loud, I mean he is the supreme nerd :-) > > Eli - Paganism > > Not unless you're claiming that Eli actually supports ethereal worship. > What makes paganism more "creative" than any other religion, anyway? And > which version of "paganism"? Well, I wanted to write New Age as that "religion" is about finding "yourself", getting in tune with the "world", being creative and open-minded, using mind-altering substances etc etc. But I wrote down Paganism as nowadays many people consider them the same. Maybe New Age was a better choice. Donato ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 20:32:31 +0100 From: "Donato Ranzato" Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... From: "Michael Walton" > That may well be so of the divine religions, but I can't > see Heaven promoting non-divine religions. That definitely > leaves out paganism, and there's even some doubt as to > whether Scientology and Freemasonry qualify as religions. Mmmh, this topic can become very controversial so I will try to steer away from that. I don't know about Sientology but doesn't Freemasonry mention that they acknowledge the Great Architect of the Universe (aka God, Jehova) and pronounce that they are not a religion but are religious? > As for the prominence of a particular religion indicating > the influence of its patron AA, that leaves us with some > problems in integrating RL history with IN canon. If that > were the case, how did European Christians become so > prominent on the world stage during a time (the Age of > Exploration) when they were badly outnumbered by Asian > Buddhists? Well, maybe politics in Heaven changed some of that.......... And wouldn't that preponderance of Buddhists > have made Novalis the most powerful Archangel? I think she is..... Peace is a powerful word, one that is supported by 99% of all humans, more than War, Honor or Judgement. > And then > there's the Eli question -- do you really see him promoting > just one religion? 0:> Yes, namely New Age as that is a mixture of the more hedonistic and mystical trappings of most word religions. Such a diverse mix that leaves much to the individuel practicioner is exactly what Eli would promote. Donato ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 13:38:55 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Donato Ranzato wrote: > Yes, true. But Sientology does have all these machines and gadgets which> supposedly makes you smarter and more in tune with reality. Maybe its Kobal> or maybe Jean's version of a divine science makes other people laugh out> loud, I mean he is the supreme nerd :-) Talking about Scientology is likely to turn into a TFH (we just had someone implode on the Pyramid In Nomine board over this). Let's just say I cannot imagine any version of Jean except a very, very twisted one being behind Scientology. > Well, I wanted to write New Age as that "religion" is about finding > "yourself", getting in tune with the "world", being creative and > open-minded, using mind-altering substances etc etc. But I wrote down > Paganism as nowadays many people consider them the same. Maybe New Age was a> better choice. That's more a philosophy than a religion, and nowadays it's mostly self-indulgent navel-gazing and a marketing scheme. Actually, I have this amusing notion of Eli showing up on a modern, ultra-liberal college campus and stirring things up by preaching as a born-again Christian... - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 14:44:13 -0500 From: Eric Eves Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Donato Ranzato wrote: > I think she is..... Peace is a powerful word, one that is supported by 99% > of all humans, more than War, Honor or Judgement. Peace, sure. But Flowers? Although you have to give her credit for turning a word about the sexual organs of plants and causing it to represent Peace, Love, and a bunch of other, extremely powerful words. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 19:45:09 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... >From: "Donato Ranzato" >Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... >Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 20:24:07 +0100 > >From: "David Edelstein" > > > > Jean - Scientology > > > > Scientology isn't even remotely scientific. Kobal is more likely. >Yes, true. But Sientology does have all these machines and gadgets which >supposedly makes you smarter and more in tune with reality. Maybe its Kobal *Maybe* it's Kobal? http://www.xenu.net/archive/leaflet/xenuleaf.htm This is the condensed, summarized version of the Secret History Of The Earth and the Secret Potential Of Humankind that Scientologists pay tens of thousands of dollars to eventually be educated in, after years of slogging their way through the 'outer circle' of Dianetics. Kobal must laugh himself sick every time he thinks about this bunch. (The rest of xenu.net has *reams* of source material on Scientology. Where it's not pathetic, it's very disturbing. Scientology, that is.) ObNecessaryINContent -- if you want to create a really chillingly organized demonic cult that will drive your players *nuts* trying to overcome, just take Xenu's material on the Sea-Org and change the names. And 'Dead Agenting' is a great way to show how Hellsworn in the right positions can destroy Soldiers of God and established deep-cover Roles without ever doing anything remotely violent. Well, not /physically/ violent. [snip\ >or maybe Jean's version of a divine science makes other people laugh out >loud, I mean he is the supreme nerd :-) Jean is a very logical, organized, and intelligent entity. He would never be the advocate of something so violently irrational. - -- Chuckg _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 14:46:06 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Donato Ranzato wrote: > I don't know about Sientology but doesn't Freemasonry mention that > they acknowledge the Great Architect of the Universe (aka God, > Jehova) and pronounce that they are not a religion but are religious? As I understand it, yes. (I'm not a Mason, but I'm the grandson of a Worthy Matron of the Eastern Star (a Masonic auxillary), and you pick up things. (Mostly folding chairs in the dining hall, after being drafted to help with the pot-luck supper, but I digress...).) To be a Mason, you have to believe in God; Christians, Jews, and Moslems are all equally welcome. I suspect Deists are, too. I don't know about the various forms of pantheism and philosophical monism; those weren't much of an issue when and where the Masons were organized, or, for that matter, in the Midwestern town where I grew up. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 11:53:00 -0800 (PST) From: Nathan Campbell Subject: IN> Dallas TX Not sure if trolling for games is allowed, but... I bought the IN core book a few months back, and was interested, but not enough to start running a game (I'm pretty bad at GMing). Now a few friends have found the book, and liked it also... Is there anyone in the Dallas/Fort Worth/Denton looking for an eager if new group, and willing to GM? We're housebroken, and reasonably well behaved. Thanks. Please e-mail me, I don't want to clutter up the list. Cheers, Nathan Campbell Jain_Farstrider@Yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 17:25:16 -0500 (EST) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, Donato Ranzato wrote: > Laurence - Christianity Catholicism, actually - the narrower focus is important enough to mention. > Khalid - Islam Obviously. > Novalis - Buddhism I could see it... I could also see Eli being interested in the promoting of Buddhism as well. > Jean - Scientology NO. Scientology started off as a bet between sci-fi authors to see who could create a working religion based completely on fiction, and has become something rather scary. Do a search on them and read a bit; there's nothing Divine about them. And their gadgets (to tie this back to Jean) are just normal, known gadgets, renamed (a polygraph becomes an "engram detector" or some such.) Jean, in canon, doesn't promote religion. He doesn't feel it's necessary. > David - Freemasonry Well, one could argue that Freemasonry is against God - they have more demonic imagery than anything. Personally, I don't think they classify as a religion at all. I see David supporting the Jews, who've endured so many hardships. In canon, I believe Michael supports them as well. > Dominic - Judaism or Christianity (yes, this is different from canon) Naw, he's a Christian. However, though he prefers Catholicism, he's not nearly as focused on it as Laurence. So Dominic would, by default, pretty much be the patron of Protestantism and the related groups. > Eli - Paganism "Paganism" is a broad brush, but is generally defined as "worshipping something besides God". Due to that, I doubt VERY much Eli would promote this. In canon, he promoted Zorostraism (sp?) and has recently been seen working with Reform Jews. - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! "Anything sounds profound if you put it in quotation marks and sign it Anonymous." -- Anonymous ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 19:51:37 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... >From: "Donato Ranzato" >Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... >Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 20:32:31 +0100 [snip] >I think she is..... Peace is a powerful word, one that is supported by 99% >of all humans, more than War, Honor or Judgement. Don't forget that Michael's word of 'War' also encompasses Competition and Struggle in the more generic sense (1) -- and historically speaking, humans are a very, very, *very* competitive bunch. There is a reason that the Firstborn is the most powerful Archangel around... and part of that reason is because his word is an extremely deep and primal part of the human psyche. - -- Chuckg (1) Lucifer's Rebellion and the War between Heaven and Hell has been around for only twenty or so millennia. Michael has been around for all four-billion-plus years of Creation. One thing that's often forgotten about Michael is that he's spent over 99.9+% of his existence not killing anything. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 20:07:31 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... >From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" >Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... >Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 17:25:16 -0500 (EST) > > Jean - Scientology > >NO. Scientology started off as a bet between sci-fi authors to see who >could create a working religion based completely on fiction, According to urbanlegends.com, that one is not true: http://www.urbanlegends.com/religion/hubbard_heinlein_bet.html Scientology was started by one greedy and amoral sci-fi author as a purely cynical exercise in separating suckers from their money. >and has become something rather scary. I agree. It's become something *quite* scary. >Do a search on them and read a bit; www.xenu.net, the one-stop shop for all of your Scientology-expose research needs. >there's nothing Divine about them. But quite a lot Infernal. - -- Chuckg _________________________________________________________________ Join the world s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 21:23:13 +0100 From: "Donato Ranzato" Subject: IN> London Sourcebook Okay, I have some bad news and some good news........ The good news is that I have found my 17 page In Nomine London Sourcebook...... The bad news is that it is a Word document consisting of 17 pages of scanned images of the original sourcebook. This means it is a whopping 14 mb...... If there are people that are interested in this sourcebook than please let me know. I will then put it on some server and give you a direct link to it so you can download it. If you are not interested in it then why are you reading this message :-) Please reply privately...... Cheerio, Donato Ranzato ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 15:05:54 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> London Sourcebook Donato Ranzato wrote: > If there are people that are interested in this sourcebook than please let> me know. I will then put it on some server and give you a direct link to it> so you can download it. Why not just post the link? Actually, I was thinking it would be cool if the INC contained a single page of links to all the different IN locales, cities that have been written up by various GMs. (Maybe there is such a page; I haven't checked lately.) - -David (author of IN New York, IN San Francisco, and IN Dallas) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 16:41:32 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Neon Genesis Evangelion At 8:24 PM -0500 1/11/02, Charles Phipps wrote: >Okay guys the first real test to see if In Anime can actually work. Guys >tell me how to adapt this immortal series of robots, fanservice, and stolen >Christian symbology and names to the heart of the In Nomine universe without >making both seem utterly and completely silly. http://www.eyrie.net/NXE/ O:> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2512 ********************************