in_nomine-digest Thursday, January 17 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2516 In this digest: Re: IN> Paganism as a Divine Religion Re: IN> A quick question for you all... Re: IN> A quick question for you all... Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> Paganism as a Divine Religion Re: IN> Paganism as a Divine Religion Re: IN> A quick question for you all... Re: IN> Paganism as a Divine Religion IN> David E and Laurence Re: IN> David E and Laurence Re: IN> David E and Laurence Re: IN> David E and Laurence Re: IN> David E and Laurence Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> David E and Laurence Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> David E and Laurence Re: IN> David E and Laurence Re: IN> A quick question for you all... Re: IN> David E and Laurence Re: IN> A quick question for you all... Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> A quick question for you all... IN> OK, a couple of things... IN> angel of revolutions... Re: IN> A quick question for you all... Re: IN> A quick question for you all... Re: IN> A quick question for you all... Re: IN> A quick question for you all... Re: IN> Paganism as a Divine Religion Re: IN> David E and Laurence Re: IN> OK, a couple of things... Re: IN> OK, a couple of things... Re: IN> OK, a couple of things... Re: IN> OK, a couple of things... Re: IN> OK, a couple of things... Re: IN> OK, a couple of things... Re: IN> David E and Laurence IN> Malakim, born or made... (Re: David E and Laurence) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:53:19 -0500 From: "John J. Maurer, Esq." Subject: Re: IN> Paganism as a Divine Religion - ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Edelstein" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 2:24 PM Subject: Re: IN> Paganism as a Divine Religion >> Actually, Laurence believes Catholicism is True. I.e., he believes in > the divinity of Jesus Christ, and he also believes that God appoints the > Pope and sometimes speak through him (when the Pope is speaking > infallibly -- I can't remember the formal term). Ex Cathedra Speaks ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:55:52 +0000 From: "cassandra benner" Subject: Re: IN> A quick question for you all... >How many of you think that IN could use an Angel of Students? OK, I know >that's lame... :o) Actually its not lame at all. They would probly work for the Angel of Teachers, who may well be part of Litheroys or Davids group. The Angel of Students would proble have contacts all throughout the celestial world. And no student party would be compelte with out a Creationer turning up with the beers and -other sundry goods- (tm) Christoper would probly help th angel of students other collegue, the Angel of School Children. But what choir would he be? a seraph? or an elohim? Til another time, Cas In Nomine @ http://www.angelfire.com/goth/psyber/i-n.html In Nomine yahoo @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/inveritas ADnD forum @ http://www.drunkendwarfinn.co.uk ADnD stuff @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ADandD_Stuff _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 21:01:25 +0000 From: "cassandra benner" Subject: Re: IN> A quick question for you all... Oops, i forgot to mention WHY david might have the Angel of Teachers. Well School is one of the first institutions we go in to and spend a long time there. It is a place where we must form bonds and loyalties and at times work as a group and so forth. Til another time, Cas In Nomine @ http://www.angelfire.com/goth/psyber/i-n.html In Nomine yahoo @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/inveritas ADnD forum @ http://www.drunkendwarfinn.co.uk ADnD stuff @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ADandD_Stuff _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:02:18 -0600 From: toadpooka@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:43:30 "Perry Lloyd" writes: > Wait, when did Michael get his Word? It wasn't before the Fall was > it? (recoils in horror at the thought) That's the interesting part: Michael didn't get a Word or become an Archangel until he kicked Lucifer out of Heaven. He's the oldest angel, and was one of the last originals to get a Word (except Yves, who got his later, too...I think). >From Whom It May Concern, Rich Ranallo "Rock and Roll will be the new planetary culture, believe it or not." - -Prof. Michio Kaku ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 13:46:35 -0800 From: Daiv Subject: Re: IN> Paganism as a Divine Religion >Daiv wrote: >> And isn't that an interesting idea? Laurence supports >> Catholicism. Not because it is True (in the cosmic, check digit six >> with divine intervention (He is a Superior, they can do stuff like >> that once in a while)) sense, but because it is 'close enough' for >> his purposes. > >Actually, Laurence believes Catholicism is True. I.e., he believes in >the divinity of Jesus Christ, and he also believes that God appoints the >Pope and sometimes speak through him (when the Pope is speaking >infallibly -- I can't remember the formal term). > Hmmm... Unless I am mistaken (and let me say that I am no kind of scholar, so mistakes are likely, and not intentional; I was raised in the Episcopal church, though, so I am not totally ignorant(just mostly)) one of the core, fundamental Catholic doctrines is the forgiveness of sin through confession, and that a person in a state of grace at the time of death will ascend to heaven on Judgement day. In reality (for IN, not real reality) a only a soul who has reached Destiny will go to heaven. Catholicism are totally opposed to the idea of reincarnation (as a matter of Cannon). IN reality, it happens all the time (those souls who do not reach destiny or fate, which is probably a lot of them, either reincarnate or dissipate.) What i am getting at, is the way he is presented, is how he Laurence can reasonably accept that the Catholic Church is "True", when there are so many aspects of its doctrine which are demonstrably False. And as you pointed out, he is not a Seraph. Heck, theres a decent chance you wrote that, since your names on the Laurence chapter, so i am most enthused about not disagreeing with that point. He is a Malakite, and was created that way. So, He does not have to be obsessive about the Truth, as Dominic is, or even really inclined to hold to it, like an ex Seraph Malakite would be (I thought that was Micheal, but I checked and I was wrong, and i do not know of an Archangel who fits that description off the top of my head) (the cannon is that Malakites who used to be a different choir tend to maintain some of the qualities of their previous choir, right? Sort of by force of habit, if nothing else?) Theres my...question, failure to understand, un addressed concern. How can Laurence maintain that the Catholic Church has it right (and, by extension, everyone else has it wrong) when he can see for himself the...flaws in the doctrine? he knows that the church is fundamentally wrong in many areas, and only incompletely right in a very few (and probably right on the nose in some, too.) He does not have to be a Seraph, now or ever to see that, does he? And, is this not an interesting aspect of the game to play with? (which is really the most important question) -Daiv - -- hammer and anvil fire sweat iron and breath forging destiny ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 13:56:32 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Paganism as a Divine Religion - --- David Edelstein wrote: > he also believes that God appoints the > Pope and sometimes speaks through him (when the Pope is > speaking > infallibly -- I can't remember the formal term). I believe it's "ex cathedra," but I'm not 100% sure. > Remember, he's not a Seraph. And some of the above issues > are > sufficiently ineffable that even the Seraph Archangels > don't necessarily know the Truth. Ain't that a kick -- the whole truth of God, the Symphony and Everything is something which even the Archangels have doubts about. Of course, the game wouldn't be much fun if the AA's had all the answers. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 Existential fast food slogan: "Why's the beef?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:00:52 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> A quick question for you all... - --- cassandra benner wrote: > Oops, i forgot to mention WHY david might have the Angel > of Teachers. Your argument is reasonable, but I still see Christopher and Dominic both being willing to contest the claim... and the Angel of Teachers somehow ending up under Yves. 0:> ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 Existential fast food slogan: "Why's the beef?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:15:09 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Paganism as a Divine Religion Daiv wrote: > Hmmm... > Unless I am mistaken (and let me say that I am no kind of > scholar, so mistakes are likely, and not intentional; I was raised in > the Episcopal church, though, so I am not totally ignorant(just > mostly)) one of the core, fundamental Catholic doctrines is the > forgiveness of sin through confession, and that a person in a state > of grace at the time of death will ascend to heaven on Judgement day. > In reality (for IN, not real reality) a only a soul who has > reached Destiny will go to heaven. True. To be honest, I've never been happy with the rules for Fate and Destiny. They work IF the GM picks a standard and adheres to it. The problem is that in canon, a lot of authors have come up with some funky ideas for fates and destinies, which results in a very...idiosyncratic system for deciding who winds up in Heaven and who doesn't. I would strongly suggest dumping any "fates" or "destinies" which don't really involve much of a moral choice on the part of the mortal, or which can represent one snap decision in contradiction to a lifetime of contrary behavior. > What i am getting at, is the way he is presented, is how he > Laurence can reasonably accept that the Catholic Church is "True", > when there are so many aspects of its doctrine which are demonstrably > False. I said he accepts it as being as close as humanity has come to the Truth. > And as you pointed out, he is not a Seraph. Heck, theres a > decent chance you wrote that, since your names on the Laurence > chapter, Well, I'm not the one who made him a Malakite; that was Derek Pearcy. David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 22:18:48 +0000 From: "cassandra benner" Subject: IN> David E and Laurence >From: David Edelstein >Well, I'm not the one who made him a Malakite; that was Derek Pearcy. > >David So, what Choir would you have made Laurance if you was the one given to writting him? Just curious is all. Til another time, Cas In Nomine @ http://www.angelfire.com/goth/psyber/i-n.html In Nomine yahoo @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/inveritas ADnD forum @ http://www.drunkendwarfinn.co.uk ADnD stuff @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ADandD_Stuff _________________________________________________________________ Join the world s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:42:56 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> David E and Laurence cassandra benner wrote: > >Well, I'm not the one who made him a Malakite; that was Derek Pearcy. > > > >David > > So, what Choir would you have made Laurance if you was the one given to> writting him? Malakite. Khalid is the one whose Choir I'd like to change: he really should have been a Malakite, but TPTB made him an Elohite just because they felt that there weren't enough Elohite Archangels. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 22:58:19 +0000 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> David E and Laurence >From: David Edelstein >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: Re: IN> David E and Laurence >Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:42:56 -0600 > >cassandra benner wrote: > > >Well, I'm not the one who made him a Malakite; that was Derek Pearcy. > > > > > >David > > > > So, what Choir would you have made Laurance if you was the one given to> >writting him? > > >Malakite. > I'd have gone Cherub. Defender of the Faith. jo _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:07:44 -0800 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: IN> David E and Laurence Except that he had become overlay dissonant in Final Trumpet. Somehow, I can't think of Khalid harming the faithful he's attuned to (which is what makes a Cherub dissonant, yet?). However, if he was a Malakite, and one of his vows was "I shall support all divine religions, as all of them bring humans closer to God," then I could see how he could become pretty dissonant. > >I'd have gone Cherub. Defender of the Faith. > >jo > >_________________________________________________________________ >Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 23:12:06 +0000 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> David E and Laurence Nono. I meant Laurence as a cherub. jo >From: "Bevan Thomas" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: Re: IN> David E and Laurence >Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:07:44 -0800 > >Except that he had become overlay dissonant in Final Trumpet. Somehow, I >can't think of Khalid harming the faithful he's attuned to (which is what >makes a Cherub dissonant, yet?). However, if he was a Malakite, and one of >his vows was "I shall support all divine religions, as all of them bring >humans closer to God," then I could see how he could become pretty >dissonant. > >> >>I'd have gone Cherub. Defender of the Faith. > >> >>jo >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com >> > > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: >http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 00:07:18 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... >From: "John J. Maurer, Esq." >Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... >Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:51:12 -0500 >Actually it is NOT Cannon Doubt and Uncertanty. That refers to things that >are deliberately kept unknown/unknowable/undetermined by Steve Jackson and >the writers. Examples include: The Nature of God, Jesus, The Upper Heavens, >The Lower Hells and other such things. Very well then. Change it to 'a question as yet entirely unanswered in canon'. > > a) encompassed the concepts of struggle, competition, etc. for as > long >as he's been around >Is this true? I don't recall any cannon mention of this pre-War in heaven He had to have /something/ to do for the first four billion years of Creation other than sit around and look pretty, and it is canon in Sup1 that Michael's personality was not especially transformed by the Fall, so his current mental outlook and nature are and should be indicative of his pre-Fall outlook, outside of the obvious exception of the War itself. > > b) always been the mightiest of the Host > >Also something I didn't know. Sup1, again. - -- Chuckg _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:22:17 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> David E and Laurence - --- David Edelstein wrote: > Khalid is the one whose Choir I'd like to change: he > really should have > been a Malakite, but TPTB made him an Elohite just > because they felt > that there weren't enough Elohite Archangels. Welll... I see the point, but I STILL think that either Grigori or Bright Lilim would have been the way to go for an AA of Faith. Of course, the former might have been too Dark and the latter too Bright for all tastes... Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 01/01/02(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:27:13 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:25:04 EST From: CsHoneyman@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... >Is there an Angel of Revolutions? In canon? Not as far as I know. It's been done, though*... Moe *Not that that should stop you from creating your own, of course. :) ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 01/01/02(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:31:11 -0800 From: Daiv Subject: Re: IN> David E and Laurence >cassandra benner wrote: >> >Well, I'm not the one who made him a Malakite; that was Derek Pearcy. >> > >> >David >> >> So, what Choir would you have made Laurance if you was the one >>given to> writting him? > >Malakite. >-David Interesting. Would you have also made him a born Malakite, or would you like to have done his history / background differently? I ask only our of curiosity, since, to be honest, I really enjoy pretty much everything you have ever written. Also, the three names on the Laurence Chapter are yours, S John Ross, and Derek Pearcy. I have noticed a pretty distinct divergence in styles between the three of you... (note, I like the other two as well, but for entirely different reasons) and, in heaven, do they distinguish between Malakim who were born that way, and those who became Malakim during the Fall? Other than recognizing the age inherent in the latter, of course. - -Daiv - -- hammer and anvil fire sweat iron and breath forging destiny ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 19:14:18 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> David E and Laurence Daiv wrote: > Interesting. > Would you have also made him a born Malakite, or would you > like to have done his history / background differently? I pretty much like the history Pearcy and SJR established for him. > I ask only> our of curiosity, since, to be honest, I really enjoy pretty much> everything you have ever written. Also, the three names on the> Laurence Chapter are yours, S John Ross, and Derek Pearcy. Pearcy wrote the original Laurence in the IN rulebook, SJR wrote the first expanded version for Night Music, and I had to base the more expanded version in S1 on SJR's draft. So everything that's in S1 that wasn't in the main rulebook or Night Music is mine. > and, in heaven, do they distinguish between Malakim who were > born that way, and those who became Malakim during the Fall? Other > than recognizing the age inherent in the latter, of course. Some Malakim might. Certainly the Tsayadim do. (Interesting thought: perhaps the Tsayadim only include "converted" Malakim, considering angels created as Virtues later to be Johnny-come-lately insta-Malakim.) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 21:14:42 -0700 From: "Chris Holland" Subject: Re: IN> A quick question for you all... >Is anyone else at college/university, or are y'all old folks? :o) > >I know that's not specifically a list topic, but I was just curious... I'm a college student going for a Computer Science degree Chris Holland _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 22:46:32 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> David E and Laurence From: "David Edelstein" > > Some Malakim might. Certainly the Tsayadim do. (Interesting thought: > perhaps the Tsayadim only include "converted" Malakim, considering > angels created as Virtues later to be Johnny-come-lately insta-Malakim.) It strikes me that it could be even more interesting if they were all former Seraphim, like their superior. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 15:16:47 +1000 From: "Shane" Subject: Re: IN> A quick question for you all... On 16 Jan 2002, 15:45, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > At 3:31 PM -0500 1/16/02, CsHoneyman@aol.com wrote: > >Is anyone else at college/university, or are y'all old folks? :o) > > > >I know that's not specifically a list topic, but I was just curious... > > Tie it to IN, tie it to IN -- general gaming threads happen all over > the place like puppies and kittens, but IN is right here... Neither! I'm a very young 29 :p. And do tech support for a local primary school. Although, according to an IN-ish dream I had Wednesday morning, I'm a newly fledged seraph in service to (Novalis/Zadkiel/Dominique?) and am the Angel of Nowhere - whatever that means. :) That was one surreal dream - but then again, most of mine are like that. (and as I said to myself when I woke up, how's a new-fledged angel start with a Word anyway?) Cheers, Shane. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 05:42:57 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... - --- CsHoneyman@aol.com wrote: > Is there an Angel of Revolutions? Not until you write him/her up, dude. 0:> ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 Existential fast food slogan: "Why's the beef?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 05:45:16 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> A quick question for you all... - --- CsHoneyman@aol.com wrote: > Is anyone else at college/university, or are y'all old > folks? :o) Hey! Who you calling old?* As to that being a list topic, I'm sure that SJG appreciates the free demographic info on their customer base. }:;:> *Yes, I'm a college graduate. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 Existential fast food slogan: "Why's the beef?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 08:45:10 EST From: CsHoneyman@aol.com Subject: IN> OK, a couple of things... OK, I had a couple of minor choir ideas last night and bashed them out. Any feedback, comments etc appreciated. Also ideas for improvement - they're a bit rough and could use some smoothing out. http://www27.brinkster.com/marchog/awenau.html http://www27.brinkster.com/marchog/mathematici.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 08:46:08 EST From: CsHoneyman@aol.com Subject: IN> angel of revolutions... Blech... I always hate writing the back story. It always sounds so... hammy. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 08:48:16 EST From: CsHoneyman@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> A quick question for you all... > As to that being a list topic, I'm sure that SJG >appreciates the free demographic info on their customer >base. }:;:> Aha! You're right! I'm actually doing them a favour. They should be paying me... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 05:49:34 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> A quick question for you all... - --- cassandra benner wrote: > The Angel of Students would proble have contacts all > throughout the celestial world. Most certainly, considering that the Word encompasses Celestials who want to learn Songs and lore. > But what choir would he be? > a seraph? or an elohim? If the emphasis is on learning and inquiry, either is good (I'd go with Elohite). If the emphasis is on discouraging cheating, Malakite. If the emphasis is on protecting students' impressionable psyches from manipulation by unscrupulous teachers, Cherub. And an Ofanite would make a great Angel of Students if the goal was to inspire people to regard learning as an ongoing process. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 Existential fast food slogan: "Why's the beef?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 07:53:46 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> A quick question for you all... Michael Walton wrote: > As to that being a list topic, I'm sure that SJG > appreciates the free demographic info on their customer > base. }:;:> Not unless they actually are collecting the data from this list and consider people who respond to be representative, both of which would be false assumptions. This is one level above chat-room "M/F?" queries. Please knock it off. I'm sure it's safe to assume that a lot of gamers are college students. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 08:52:54 EST From: CsHoneyman@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> A quick question for you all... In a message dated 17/01/02 13:51:10 GMT Standard Time, thunderdog_sa@yahoo.com writes: > Subj: Re: IN> A quick question for you all... > Date: 17/01/02 13:51:10 GMT Standard Time > From: thunderdog_sa@yahoo.com (Michael Walton) > Sender: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > Reply-to: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > > > If the emphasis is on learning and inquiry, either is > good (I'd go with Elohite). If the emphasis is on > discouraging cheating, Malakite. If the emphasis is on > protecting students' impressionable psyches from > manipulation by unscrupulous teachers, Cherub. And an > Ofanite would make a great Angel of Students if the goal > was to inspire people to regard learning as an ongoing process. I think a Mercurian would be a good one - he'd fit in at the parties, help other students with their assignments, make sure they didn't get all depressed at being far away from home, and so on. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 05:54:20 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Paganism as a Divine Religion - --- Daiv wrote: > What i am getting at, is the way he is presented, is how > he > Laurence can reasonably accept that the Catholic Church > is "True", > when there are so many aspects of its doctrine which are > demonstrably False. Laurence knows perfectly well that the Catholic Church has a lot of things wrong. But he regards them as having more things right than other religions. As someone said in an earlier post, he sees it as being as close as Humans are likely to get. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 Existential fast food slogan: "Why's the beef?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 10:40:55 -0500 From: "Robb Kidd" Subject: Re: IN> David E and Laurence David Edelstein wrote: > Some Malakim might. Certainly the Tsayadim do. (Interesting thought: > perhaps the Tsayadim only include "converted" Malakim, considering > angels created as Virtues later to be Johnny-come-lately insta-Malakim.) Sure. Their perspective: how can a being truly embody the wrath of God if they weren't present to experience the event that pissed Him off? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 10:38:26 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> OK, a couple of things... - --- CsHoneyman@aol.com wrote: > OK, I had a couple of minor choir ideas last night and > bashed them out. Here's my take on them. Awenau: I find it _very_ interesting that everyone who has posted a minor Choir for Gabriel has gone with the inspiration aspect of fire. I would've liked to see a CD results chart, but other than that I like the way you worked the Perception-based Resonance. The Choir Attunement for Fire is primo. Mathematici: I found the Resonance to be unfocused; if it does that many different things, it's too powerful for a minor Choir. It would be better IMO if the Resonance didn't do quite so much (or at least if some of those functions fell under "More Sophisticated Uses"). The Choir Attunement for Stone is really good, but I didn't care for the other two. Both: I tend to be leary of Will-based Resonance for angels; that's usually a demonic thing. As per the main book, angelic Resonances are tools for information gathering. Even the active Resonance of the Ofanim has an information gathering function (navigation). If I were to use either of these IMC, I'd limit the Resonances to the Perception-based functions or alter them to make the Will-based aspects strictly secondary. All in all, a good first foray into this field. Check out www.phargle.com and various list members' websites to see what other people on the list have done -- every single one of the entries for the minor Band of Asmodeus are freakin' scary! ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 Existential fast food slogan: "Why's the beef?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 13:53:34 EST From: CsHoneyman@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> OK, a couple of things... I would've liked to see a CD > results chart, but other than that I like the way you > worked the Perception-based Resonance. The Choir > Attunement for Fire is primo. Thank you :o) I thought about a CD results chart, but it seemed a bit too nebulous a power. It could be done though, I guess. > > Mathematici: I found the Resonance to be unfocused; if it > does that many different things, it's too powerful for a > minor Choir. It does, I agree. I wasn't entirely happy with them, but when you have an idea... I'd like to smooth them over and get the bumps out a bit more sometime in the future. > Both: I tend to be leary of Will-based Resonance for > angels; that's usually a demonic thing. As per the main > book, angelic Resonances are tools for information > gathering. Even the active Resonance of the Ofanim has an > information gathering function (navigation). If I were to > use either of these IMC, I'd limit the Resonances to the > Perception-based functions or alter them to make the > Will-based aspects strictly secondary. Well, I have this theory about that, based on the Menunim from Rev2 (I know I should buy more of the supplements, only the cash is somewhat on the short side at the mo. Mea culpa). Their power is directly related to Dreams, and is to do with promoting that Word. IMO, most minor choirs would do so - the major choirs are too broad in aspect to concentrate directly on any one facet of the Symphony, whereas the minor Choirs serving AAs would be more focused on their Superiors' Words and the promotion thereof. They are correspondingly weaker in general than the major Choirs, but when they're on their home ground - their Superiors' Words - they have an advantage. The minor Choirs are more tuned to the notes which make up their Superiors' Words, and are there to actively promote and protect them. IMO, most minor Choirs would probably be post-Fall, whereas the majors - with the exception of the Malakim, of course - would be pre-Fall. Before the Fall, celestial intervention was frowned upon to a much greater extent that afterwards, so the majors were there simply to observe and take notes on how really cool God was to make all that stuff, or whatever. Afterwards, promoting your Word turned into something majorly big rather than something routine, and so the minors were created. Just an idea. > All in all, a good first foray into this field. Check > out www.phargle.com and various list members' websites to > see what other people on the list have done -- every single > one of the entries for the minor Band of Asmodeus are > freakin' scary! Coo, thanks for that :o) And I would expect Asmodean demons to be. Either that, or of the "Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!" type. I'm thinking something along the lines of causing pain for the scary types, or maybe making celestials unable to go celestial. Hmmm... But for now... "Bring in the comfy chair!" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:01:44 -0500 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> OK, a couple of things... > Both: I tend to be leary of Will-based Resonance for >angels; that's usually a demonic thing. As per the main >book, angelic Resonances are tools for information >gathering. Even the active Resonance of the Ofanim has an >information gathering function (navigation). If I were to >use either of these IMC, I'd limit the Resonances to the >Perception-based functions or alter them to make the >Will-based aspects strictly secondary. Snip Along this line, one thing that's always slightly bothered me is the fact that Kyriotates, one of my favorite choirs, completely replaces a person's mind, driving their host's conscious into the Marches, though I understand that the ability to have multiple viewpoints gives Kyriotates an Angelic comprehension of the Symphony. Has anyone else felt that way? Josh ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:54:50 -0700 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> OK, a couple of things... > out www.phargle.com and various list members' websites to > see what other people on the list have done -- every single > one of the entries for the minor Band of Asmodeus are > freakin' scary! http://www.phargle.com/choirs/ for the direct leap. I actually had a lot of Laurence submissions to put it a long time ago, but my hard drive crashed about a year ago and I lost them all. Do all ya'all still have them? I can scrounge up some time and post 'em if ya like. :-) Ben ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:58:05 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> OK, a couple of things... Josh Moger wrote: > Along this line, one thing that's always slightly bothered me is > the fact that Kyriotates, one of my favorite choirs, completely > replaces a person's mind, driving their host's conscious into the > Marches, though I understand that the ability to have multiple > viewpoints gives Kyriotates an Angelic comprehension of the Symphony. > > Has anyone else felt that way? I have felt that, if Kyriotates didn't have their dissonance condition about not getting their hosts in trouble, they'd look quite demonic -- sort of apprentice Shedim. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 20:05:31 +0000 From: "cassandra benner" Subject: Re: IN> OK, a couple of things... >From: CsHoneyman@aol.com > > every single > > one of the entries for the minor Band of Asmodeus are > > freakin' scary! >Coo, thanks for that :o) And I would expect Asmodean demons to be. >But for >now... > >"Bring in the comfy chair!" The Kata'im also feature in one of the stories on mine/nicks website, the story is called Dogday Sunrise. http://www.angelfire.com/goth/psyber/story.html Hope you enjoy it. Til another time, Cas In Nomine @ http://www.angelfire.com/goth/psyber/i-n.html In Nomine yahoo @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/inveritas ADnD forum @ http://www.drunkendwarfinn.co.uk ADnD stuff @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ADandD_Stuff _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 15:48:19 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> David E and Laurence At 4:42 PM -0600 1/16/02, David Edelstein wrote: >Khalid is the one whose Choir I'd like to change: he really should have >been a Malakite, but TPTB made him an Elohite just because they felt >that there weren't enough Elohite Archangels. > I thought he'd have made a good Cherub, myself. But I wasn't LE at the time. Heck, anything except Mercurian might have been an easier choice. (Not Malakite, though, for the plot line he got. Cherub, or Seraph, would have been my first choices. But Zadkiel was slated for Cherub, and we already had three Seraphim. O:/ ) The S3 version seems to work well, though. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 15:55:49 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Malakim, born or made... (Re: David E and Laurence) At 7:14 PM -0600 1/16/02, David Edelstein wrote: >> and, in heaven, do they distinguish between Malakim who were >> born that way, and those who became Malakim during the Fall? Other >> than recognizing the age inherent in the latter, of course. > >Some Malakim might. Certainly the Tsayadim do. (Interesting thought: >perhaps the Tsayadim only include "converted" Malakim, considering >angels created as Virtues later to be Johnny-come-lately insta-Malakim.) One wonders if, as the First Malakite, Uriel might have been the only Archangel who could "trigger" the Malakite-shift in a willing Servitor... Or maybe _sufficient_ stress on one of Purity's could make them Change on their own. That'd be a nasty little surprise for some demon. Thought that was a Mercurian you had pinned down by Hellsworn? Er, well, that past tense is _so_ appropriate now. (Or at least it should be rumored, I'd think. True or not, it's the sort of thing that little demonlings would hear. O:> ) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2516 ********************************