in_nomine-digest Saturday, January 19 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2519 In this digest: IN> Faith as connection to the Symphony Re: IN> Faith as connection to the Symphony Re: IN> Faith as connection to the Symphony Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> A quick question for you all... Re: IN> A quick question for you all... Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... IN> The Vapugun Re: IN> A quick question for you all... Re: IN> Demon of Coincidences (was a quick question) Re: IN> Demon of Coincidences (was a quick question) Re: IN> Demon of Coincidences (was a quick question) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 18:04:17 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Faith as connection to the Symphony As curious as it may be I think Faith is the perfect word for the Elohim because if they do not determine what is "true" and have an understanding of where to begin objective analysis then at the very base there is absolutely nothing to start at. Just imagine Khalid as the man who before Muhammed was the Angel who said to Socrates "I think therefore I am." You can honestly acknowledge your existence from this point and build on all things but all require miniscule amounts of faith. I think Khalid can even come up with a way of saying even thought is nonexistent if you want to say otherwise. Faith to Khalid is the defination of sanity because without it humanity is merely an animal. However something to investigate and the heart of this topic is the fact that in a musically inclined campaign isn't it possible that emotions such as "it feels right" are actually perceptions of listening to the Symphony? If so the existence of God is objective and the reason Khalid promotes faith is because the various Faiths all lead back to Rome and the greatest of all accomplishments ANY ELOHIM could ever achieve. The objective proving of God (and by nature his benevolence) to all living beings _________________________________________________________________ Join the world s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 18:28:20 -0500 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Faith as connection to the Symphony Just imagine Khalid as the man who before Muhammed was the Angel who said to Socrates "I think therefore I am." snip Hmm? Didn't get the gist of that sentence, and it was Descartes who said "Cogito ergo sum"- I think therefore I am. Josh ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 17:47:04 -0600 From: toadpooka@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> Faith as connection to the Symphony > Just imagine Khalid as the man who before Muhammed was the Angel who > said to Socrates "I think therefore I am." Then Mariel came along and made him forget before he could mention that to anyone. >From Whom It May Concern, Rich Ranallo "Rock and Roll will be the new planetary culture, believe it or not." - -Prof. Michio Kaku ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 00:55:41 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... David replied: >Perry Lloyd wrote: > > It's not enough that the GMG states otherwise, but you, Michael, are >WRONG. > > ha ha ha, ah, David, you crack me up. > >What else do you want me to say when someone makes statements that are >factually incorrect? well, a fact is defined as "something that is generally agreed upon" assuming that Michael was making an assertion about Canon In Nomine (I was under the impression that he wasn't being that specific), then es, he can be wrong regarding what is considered to be Canon (as it has been decided by a small group of people and then agreed upon by a larger group), however, if Michael is making an assertion which is not about Canon In Nomine ... > > Frankly, Michael, I agree with you, it should. Of course, the GMG says >that > > it doesn't but . . . what's the point of having rules if not to be >broken. > >I never said anyone had to follow canon. then the fault likely lies with me, as I was under the impression Michael wasn't specifically discussion Canon/not canon. > > In *my* campaign (which is RIGHT, sfaik), the Chinese Pantheon and Hindu > > pantheon /both/ have Celestial realms and their own Celestial Beings. >WHY? > > Because I prefer to have my gameworld more rooted in the reality of >the > > world's religions. > >I'm not sure how that makes it "more rooted in the reality of the >world's religions," unless you believe the Hindu and Chinese pantheons >both really exist, I believe that many people believe them to exist IMC, and that belief shapes ethereal reality, and corporeal reality reflects celestial reality (as on earth as it is in Heaven - and the Chinese traditionally had a similar thing to this, iirc) Therefore, if I as the GM create separate Celestial realms for other afterlifes, then clearly their presence will be reflected in the reality of earth. No, it's not canon. It's better (for me) than canon. I don't like having only four (4) divine religions in a game where the division between "Good" and "Evil" is the extent to which a person is selfish. (Where *do* you put the delusional killers who slay innocent children, not because they want to, but because they believe God wants them to? They aren't doing it for themselves, but for GOD - or so they think.) but in any case, IN takes a specific stance regarding >the world's religions which obviously isn't going to agree with what >many of those religions believe IRL. sure, I guess. I just don't understand why it bothers to include Buddhism as a divine religion and the exclude, like, all of the other non-Abrahamic religions of the world. (The "reality" of many Christian >sects, for example, is that no non-Christians can go to heaven, yet this >is not true in IN canon.) Of course not, that might offend people. (not meant too seriously) Truth be told, in the original game, based on the premise the the Catholic church (which one you ask? the French on, of course - heh), there is no stipulation that non-Catholics cannot get into Heaven. Just about everyone has a 1 in 12 chance of getting into Heaven right away, a one in three chance of going straight to Hell, and everyone else goes to Purgatory. I like that. (Of course you ignore the chart sometimes, duh) - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos est le moyen le plus simple de partager et imprimer vos photos : http://photos.msn.fr/Support/WorldWide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 01:02:06 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> A quick question for you all... >Is anyone else at college/university, or are y'all old folks? :o) > >I know that's not specifically a list topic, but I was just curious... grad school - age 25 - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________ Discutez en ligne avec vos amis, essayez MSN Messenger : http://messenger.msn.fr/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 01:10:34 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> A quick question for you all... >>Is anyone else at college/university, or are y'all old folks? :o) >> >>I know that's not specifically a list topic, but I was just curious... > >grad school - age 25 Uhhh ... and I've been an In Nomine fan since it landed in my hot little hands in '97 I'm guessing by the (c) date in the book, but I swear I saw a poster for it in '94 (I fell in love with the game when I saw that poster). I've since allowed myself to see other games from time to time, but In Nomine . . . I can't seem to give her up. - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________ Discutez en ligne avec vos amis, essayez MSN Messenger : http://messenger.msn.fr/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 20:11:36 -0500 From: Christopher Pipinou Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... On Sat, 19 Jan 2002 00:55:41 "Perry Lloyd" writes: > well, a fact is defined as "something that is generally agreed > upon" Actually, my dictionary defines it as "something demonstrated to exist, or have existed." If Michael was indeed making a statement regarding Canon, which I got the impression he was, then yes, his facts were mistaken, as they conflict with the Canon in the form of the GMG. > (Where *do* you put the delusional killers who slay innocent children, not > because they want to, but because they believe God wants them to? They > aren't doing it for themselves, but for GOD - or so they think.) If they reached their Destiny, then Heaven. If they reached their Fate, Hell. If neither, they discorporate, some of their Forces recombine with other Forces, and poof, some of those Forces start a happy new life with a new Destiny and Fate. At least, by my reading of the Canon... Best, Chris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 05:20:36 -0800 From: Kish Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Christopher Pipinou wrote: > On Sat, 19 Jan 2002 00:55:41 "Perry Lloyd" > writes: > > well, a fact is defined as "something that is generally agreed > > upon" > > Actually, my dictionary defines it as "something demonstrated to exist, > or have existed." > > If Michael was indeed making a statement regarding Canon, which I got the > impression he was, then yes, his facts were mistaken, as they conflict > with the Canon in the form of the GMG. Exactly so. > > > > > > (Where *do* you put the delusional killers who slay innocent children, > not > > because they want to, but because they believe God wants them to? They > > > aren't doing it for themselves, but for GOD - or so they think.) > > If they reached their Destiny, then Heaven. If they reached their Fate, > Hell. If neither, they discorporate, some of their Forces recombine with > other Forces, and poof, some of those Forces start a happy new life with > a new Destiny and Fate. And most of the time, these delusional killers are far more likely to meet their fate. If believing you were serving God was enough to make it so, the Habbalah would be angels. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 21:07:35 -0700 From: "Ruth Evers" Subject: IN> The Vapugun With apologies to Earthworm Jim and Pepperidge Farm One of Earthworm Jim's arch-nemeses is Bob, the Killer Goldfish ("Des-t-roy! Des-t-roy! Des-t-roy!") Calabim are the Destroyers... So-o-o... We wrote a song for calabim Tiny little calabim The demon snack that smiles back until you bite their heads off... "MMMmmm cala[bim]mari..." Haagenti My best friend & I really shouldn't eat sushi, talk IN & ride the Metro at night. Hope ya laughed! Kariel Dominican Mercurian of Flowers, Vassal of War Turned Eli down for the word of Humour 0 !=) _________________________________________________________________ Join the world s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 12:40:13 -0500 From: Mike Bruner Subject: Re: IN> A quick question for you all... At 01:02 AM 1/19/02 +0000, you wrote: >>Is anyone else at college/university, or are y'all old folks? :o) >> >>I know that's not specifically a list topic, but I was just curious... > >grad school - age 25 Heh, exact match with that here; wonder if the Demon of Coincidences is at work (obviously it's a demonic Word; just a few coincidences makes a conspiracy :)). - -- Mike Bruner-- mbruner18@home.com Before you try to beat the odds, make sure you can survive the odds beating you. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 12:55:56 -0500 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Demon of Coincidences (was a quick question) wonder if the Demon of Coincidences is at >work (obviously it's a demonic Word; just a few coincidences makes a >conspiracy :)). > snip I was wondering about that actually. I could see a demon working their butt off under Kobal or Kronos.... slaving away day after day in Hell and Earth in order to work their way to the top... stepping on everyone they can like a good demon should... eventually getting to the brass ring... And being given the Word of Irony. For about 2.5 seconds. Because EVERY demon given the Word of Irony lasts exactly 2.5 seconds. It's a wonderful way of weeding out the overly ambitious. Josh (Bal?)Seraph of Heresy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 17:43:42 -0500 From: "S.D." Subject: Re: IN> Demon of Coincidences (was a quick question) > wonder if the Demon of Coincidences is at >>work (obviously it's a demonic Word; just a few coincidences makes a >>conspiracy :)). > >I was wondering about that actually. I could see a demon working their butt >off under Kobal or Kronos.... slaving away day after day in Hell and Earth >in order to work their way to the top... stepping on everyone they can like >a good demon should... eventually getting to the brass ring... > >And being given the Word of Irony. > >For about 2.5 seconds. > >Because EVERY demon given the Word of Irony lasts exactly 2.5 seconds. > >It's a wonderful way of weeding out the overly ambitious. [cough] Actually, Superiors 2 says Irony is one of Kobal's seven top servitors (the others being his four Dukes, Satire, and Mockery.) It adds that Satire, Irony, and Mockery have been around long enough that it's easier just to call them by their Words. Other than that, though, neat idea. ^^ Perhaps a form of Irony, instead? (Poetic Irony, Ironic Endings, etc.) ~S.D. Ryukage ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Truth is not determined by majority vote." Doug Gwyn ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 18:12:16 -0500 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Demon of Coincidences (was a quick question) > >[cough] Actually, Superiors 2 says Irony is one of Kobal's seven top >servitors (the others being his four Dukes, Satire, and Mockery.) It adds >that Satire, Irony, and Mockery have been around long enough that it's >easier just to call them by their Words. snip Oh, like I'd let a little thing like canon stop me from letting this idea take firm root... Well, yes I would... usually. Hmm.... Wouldn't it be ironic if Kobal has just let everyone think that for the past 20,000 years or so, and the truth actually is that there is one being with the Word of Irony, he's an angel, he was a servitor of Kobal that didn't Fall, and Kobal has just been trying to either induce Word-friction or over-compensate for a major part of his word not being Hell-controlled? And Eli has been trying to find the Angel of Irony to offer him the Word-promotion of Laughter? And it turns out that the Angel of Irony has been trying to negotiate a peace between the Tsayadim and Ethereals? And the last being to have seen him was the Grigori Archangel of Song? Heh....I'm going to go now... Josh ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2519 ********************************