in_nomine-digest Wednesday, January 23 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2523 In this digest: IN> Nephalim Re: IN> Demon Princes, Multiplicity Re: IN> Re: IN > Furry In Nomine Re: IN> Nephalim Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> Demon Princes, Multiplicity was: Re:IN> the War Re: was: Re:IN> the War Re: IN> Demon Princes, Multiplicity Re: was: Re:IN> the War IN> Greed (was Re: the War) Re: was: Re:IN> the War Re: IN> Demon Princes, Multiplicity Re: IN> OK, a couple of things... Re: IN> the War Re: IN> Demon Princes, Multiplicity Re: IN> Khalid's Choir Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... IN> Books for Haagenti's stomach? Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> Books for Haagenti's stomach? Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> Books for Haagenti's stomach? Re: IN> Books for Haagenti's stomach? Re: IN> Books for Haagenti's stomach? Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... IN> The Deluge IN> Haagenti's Digestive System [was: Re: Books for Haagenti's stomach?] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 19:42:08 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Burzelic Subject: IN> Nephalim Or however it's spelled. I don't have my books with me right now. I was wondering where all the canon material on these wonderful abominations can be found. All I know of is the slight section in the Grigori write-up in the main book. I recall other snippets on Angel-Monkey babies, but don't know if my brain is making them up or if they're legitimate memories. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Jim __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 21:49:30 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Demon Princes, Multiplicity Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 20:48:46 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Demon Princes, Multiplicity >Think of Jordi. In a bad mood. Possessing every >animal on the planet. In a _really_ bad mood. The scary part is, I personally don't have to: Jon Walton did it for me. http://www.godmachine.org/tattered/arch-others-jordi.html ;) Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 01/01/02(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 01:41:18 -0500 From: "Jonathan 'Caraig' McDermott" Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN > Furry In Nomine >Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 12:00:12 -0600 >From: "Cthulhu" >Subject: IN> Re: IN > Furry In Nomine > >Jonathan McDermott wrote: > > >What was the choir of Ophis? > >I think the IPG lists him as being a Balseraph, though I could be wrong in >this (the old "books not with me" flaw). The INcyclopedia seems to be up >and running again, so you could check there. > >Cthulhu Ah, thank you very much! According to the INcyclopedia, Ophis was a Balseraph servitor of Baal, found in the IPG page 11. (Just in case others were wondering. =) - --- ============================================================ Jonathan McDermott http:\\caraig.home.mindspring.com - ------------------------------------------------------------ "And now I feel that... feel that I've been there. I didn't need this. Can somebody help me breathe?" - Nickelback, "Breathe" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:38:59 +0000 From: "Fallen Seraph" Subject: Re: IN> Nephalim >From: Jim Burzelic >I was wondering where all the canon material on these >wonderful abominations can be found. All I know of is >the slight section in the Grigori write-up in the main >book. I recall other snippets on Angel-Monkey babies, >but don't know if my brain is making them up or if >they're legitimate memories. Any help would be >appreciated. Thanks in advance. > details on how they come about can be found in the relevant sections of the IPG and APG (under angelic/demonic reproduction). in the liber canticorum under the Song of fruition, and most importantly, in the Corporeal players guide (which gives force levels and such..). theres probably some in GURPS IN too, but i havent read my copy in ages... - -FallenSeraph "tausend graue M䵳e mit blauen M䵳eh䵳ern" http://www.geocities.com/archangel_nine ICQ: 110193631 _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 05:55:57 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... - --- Kish wrote: > If believing you were serving God was > enough to make it so, the > Habbalah would be angels. You know, there was a hysterical little vignette about precisely that a few months ago...* Moe *I'd link it, but whoever wrote it did so after August 2001. :( ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 01/01/02(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 09:40:54 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Demon Princes, Multiplicity Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > However, IIRC, Superiors start having problems if their > manifestations are too close to each other. (I hope this bit made > it into the GMG in this universe, and not the one three back.) David Edelstein wrote: > I don't believe that was ever mentioned. As I recall it, David, you wrote that Superiors don't "like" to have their different manifestations too close together, but you didn't say why. I think the awfulness of Legion was not so much that he could take multiple hosts, but, as Elizabeth pointed out, that he DEVOURED the hosts, acquired their Forces, and thus started growing exponentially. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 11:53:56 -0600 From: "Cthulhu" Subject: was: Re:IN> the War Josh Moger wrote: >Baal is powerful because: A) He was directly worshipped by a number of >people around the time of the Israelites. Pure, unadulterated, worship >essence is heady stuff. Actually, from my (limited) knowledge of the historical Ba'ali and Carthage, I'd come up with a different theory, which I plan to use in a historical game I'm working on. Assuming that we take Baal as being the "evil but honourable" instance, I really don't seem him *liking* the Ba'ali. Sure he's in charge of war crimes, oppression by force, etc., but by the very nature of some of his attunments (Impudite of the War springs to mind), he's not really one for pointless slaughter. If you're not going to fight someone who can fight back, or if said slaughter isn't going to provide some tactical advantage, then what's the point? Now the Ba'ali were actually fairly peaceable. By which I mean that they didn't start wars, and they got their asses kicked whenever someone else did (again, I'm going on limited information here). And most importantly of all, they didn't try to convert anyone who wasn't keen, not even in the decandent Carthage. If it hadn't been for the whole baby sacrificing, they would have been a decent lot, or at least as decent as you were going to get back then. The reason that they killed babies was that they were totally convinced that if they didn't Baal would come and destroy them. So what we have here is slaughter of innocents who hadn't a prayer of fighting back, with no religious intolerance or use as a military force. Not really Baal's cup of tea. So IMC, what we actually had here was a very, very dissonant (and hence dellusional) Renegade servitor of the War, probably a Habbalite, convinced that setting up a cult to worship Baal was the best way back into the Warlords good books. It gets carried away with the baby sacrifice, and things go downhill from there. We then have angels (the PCs, in my case) and servitors of the War coming in to try and deal with this situation. (Because we all also play World of Darkness games, I plan to have a coven of vampires serving said Renegade, but that's beside the point.) The only thing which really removes this from canon is the listing in the IPG of the Demon of Blood Sacrifices, an Impudite of the War. But I'm not going to let a little thing like that stop me. Opinions or ideas? Cthulhu _____________________________________________ Free email with personality! Over 200 domains! http://www.MyOwnEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 10:26:53 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: was: Re:IN> the War - --- Cthulhu wrote: > Now the Ba'ali were actually fairly peaceable. By which I > mean that they > didn't start wars, and they got their asses kicked > whenever someone else did I suspect that Hannibal would be amused to hear that. > If it hadn't been for the whole baby sacrificing, they > would have been a decent lot I'll defer to those who've done more research on this subject, but I'm not sure that child sacrifice was part of Baal worship. I do know that such sacrifices accompanied the worship of Moloch and Chemosh, who (in IN) were either nasty Ethereals or fronts for Saminga. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 Existential fast food slogan: "Why's the beef?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:50:12 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Demon Princes, Multiplicity At 9:40 AM -0500 1/23/02, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >> However, IIRC, Superiors start having problems if their >> manifestations are too close to each other. (I hope this bit made >> it into the GMG in this universe, and not the one three back.) > >David Edelstein wrote: > >> I don't believe that was ever mentioned. > >As I recall it, David, you wrote that Superiors don't "like" to >have their different manifestations too close together, but you >didn't say why. GMG, p. 99: "Hpw many manifestations are possible depends on Superior, but most find it difficult to maintain more than a handful at a time. Kyro Archangels vcan easily handle a dozen or more at once, while some Superiors, particular;ly Shedite Prionces, don't like to split themselves up at all." All typos and the abbreviation of Kyriotate mine, because typing with one hand is hard. The paragraph there also goes on to say that if a Superior needs undivided attention, such as when confronting another Superior, they may find it necessary to consolodate themselves into a single manifestation -- except Kyriotates. So the basics _are_ in there, and my commentary was based off of rationalizing it. (The "which right hand has the sword?" reflex problem.) - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. arcangel is nursing a trout with ARMS! ARMS that reach out and try to pound the keyboard! You say "And teeth. Ow." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:58:20 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: was: Re:IN> the War At 11:53 AM -0600 1/23/02, Cthulhu wrote: [...] >The only thing which really removes this from canon is the listing in the >IPG of the Demon of Blood Sacrifices, an Impudite of the War. But I'm not >going to let a little thing like that stop me. Didn't the Aztecs do self-sacrifices as well? Things like running a bramble through a hole in their tongues, or self-scarrification? A Blood Sacrifice doesn't have to be a _death_ sacrifice. (Though the Aztecs did that, too.) (I would assume other cultures had their own blood-rituals...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:52:34 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Greed (was Re: the War) At 1:57 AM -0500 1/22/02, Perry Lloyd wrote: >>Of course, the most important struggle in recent time is the War between >(and why is Greed a -minor- word and (Infernal) Fire a major word? >Shouldn't Greed bring far many more souls down to Hell than Fire?) Greed isn't necessarily a minor _Word_. But Mammon is, now, a minor _Prince_. See Superiors 4; basically, he got the sticky end of Princely in-fighting... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:01:46 -0500 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: was: Re:IN> the War > I'll defer to those who've done more research on this >subject, but I'm not sure that child sacrifice was part of >Baal worship. I do know that such sacrifices accompanied >the worship of Moloch and Chemosh, who (in IN) were either >nasty Ethereals or fronts for Saminga. snip Or were themselves Demon Princes. I'm going to take a slightly heretical point of view and say that there have been rises and falls in Hell that no one seems to remember. Makatiel, Mariel, Legion, and Meserach seem to be the only Demon Princes people remember being destroyed, but on the other hand we have beings like Mammon and Magog, incredibly powerful beings who were reduced to little (relatively speaking) or no threat because of past actions. I've always considered Moloch to be a possible Demon Prince who was destroyed due to some power play or another. Just my two bits. Josh ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 11:43:13 -0800 From: Sean McCarthy Subject: Re: IN> Demon Princes, Multiplicity Our spies report that at 07:54 PM 1/22/2002 -0500, William J. Keith wrote: >Hmm... I've also come up with a simpler answer. Perhaps projecting >multiple instantiations is very power-intensive and concentration-consuming >for the Superior, so it's far less efficient than multiple-possession by >the Kyriotate resonance. There's only so many instantiations a Superior >can create, whereas Legion was able to possess, and possess, and >possess.... (In this situation, you might even have Archangels show a >preference for using the Kyriotate resonance over projecting another >instantiation; it's a lot easier.) That could work. The answer I had come up with is that you have to split your attention to do it if you aren't a Kyriotate or someone with access to their resonance. A Superior-level intellect can probably keep a lot of balls in the air at once, but they do spread themselves thinner in doing so. As opposed to a Kyriotate, who applies everything they have to each host at once. Yay multiplicity. >Nice thought-provoking question, Sean! Thank you. I have somewhat of a history in this area, I like to think. I would reference the archives, but last I knew they were broken. Just a quick note to everyone: Over President's Day weekend, OrcCon (twenty-something now, I think) is taking place as the LA Airport Westin by Los Angeles International Airport. I will, as usual, be helping run the In Nomine tournament. If you are already going to the con, or just plan to be in the area and bored, drop by! Sean ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:46:50 EST From: CsHoneyman@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> OK, a couple of things... In a message dated 22/01/02 02:20:23 GMT Standard Time, perrylloyd@hotmail.com writes: > once they're touched up, can I put these on my webpage? (giving you credit, > of course) Knock yourself out, man :o) Anyone else is free to put 'em up in any stage of development, should they wish to, as long as some form of notice is given. Even just putting my email would be fine. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:49:02 EST From: CsHoneyman@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> the War In a message dated 22/01/02 04:55:47 GMT Standard Time, eeves@erskine.edu writes: > Um, does IN canon have his name as "He Who is Like God"? I asked > someone who knows ancient hebrew and has a Ph.D. in Old Testament, and > he assured me that the name translates out as "Who is Like God?" with a > question mark in real life. AFAIK and IIRC (shame they're not TLAs), it was his battle cry, too. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:53:44 EST From: CsHoneyman@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Demon Princes, Multiplicity In a message dated 23/01/02 18:56:25 GMT Standard Time, emccoy@nh.ultranet.com writes: > GMG, p. 99: "Hpw many manifestations are possible depends on Superior, > but most find it difficult to maintain more than a handful at a time. Kyro > Archangels vcan easily handle a dozen or more at once, while some Superiors, > particular;ly Shedite Prionces, don't like to split themselves up at all." > Probably true. As I envisage it, once you get to Superior level, the whole Choir/Band thing hit somewhere high on the irrelevant scale - if you have that much power, you can probably duplicate any resonance effects anyway. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:11:15 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Khalid's Choir >Brook Freeman wrote: > > If you make a conscious decision to believe you say to yourself (for > > example), "I believe that the teachings of the Catholic Church are true >and > > will follow them," without any specific feeling or emotion driving that > > decision. Just make yourself say it and repeat it over and over and >hope > > that you actually come to believe later. > >If you have no intellectual or emotional investment in such a belief, >then that's not faith, but willful delusion. I fail to see the difference. "Willful" implies application of the will, which is both intellectual and emotional in nature (as well as conscious and/or unconscious). If you are consciously choosing to behave in a certain manner, a behavior which will result in unconsciously instilling belief in you, this appears to me to be an intellectual investment (though not the result of any "logical" derivation, but it is a logical step to take if one is intellectually aware of the psychological patterns which describe such effects as this). - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________ Rejoignez le plus grand service de messagerie au monde avec MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com/fr ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:45:19 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... >On Sat, 19 Jan 2002 00:55:41 "Perry Lloyd" >writes: > > well, a fact is defined as "something that is generally agreed > > upon" > >Actually, my dictionary defines it as "something demonstrated to exist, >or have existed." I imagine that one of several definitions, yes. :) > > (Where *do* you put the delusional killers who slay innocent children, >not > > because they want to, but because they believe God wants them to? They > > > aren't doing it for themselves, but for GOD - or so they think.) > >If they reached their Destiny, then Heaven. If they reached their Fate, >Hell. If neither, they discorporate, some of their Forces recombine with >other Forces, and poof, some of those Forces start a happy new life with >a new Destiny and Fate. > >At least, by my reading of the Canon... I mean socially, where do they fit in? "Wow, what was your destiny?" "Serving God directly to the best of my ability." "What did you do?" "I slashed the throats of 23 virgin girls either as they slept or after I had knocked them unconscious with chloroform (sp?)." So, who takes him? Novalis, for his Mercy? Marc, for his business sense? Dominic, for his judgement? - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________ T鬩chargez MSN Explorer gratuitement ࠬ'adresse http://explorer.msn.fr/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:07:22 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... - --- Perry Lloyd wrote: > >On Sat, 19 Jan 2002 00:55:41 "Perry Lloyd" > > >writes: > I mean socially, where do they fit in? > > "Wow, what was your destiny?" > "Serving God directly to the best of my ability." > "What did you do?" > "I slashed the throats of 23 virgin girls either as > they slept or after I > had knocked them unconscious with chloroform (sp?)." Perry, I really do think that this is one of things that the Brightness button is _for_... ;) Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 01/01/02(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:32:34 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... From: "Perry Lloyd" > > "Serving God directly to the best of my ability." > "What did you do?" > "I slashed the throats of 23 virgin girls either as they slept or after I > had knocked them unconscious with chloroform (sp?)." Maybe it's just me, but I fail to see how this could constitute serving God directly in any but the more Dim/Dark campaigns. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:59:52 +0000 From: "cassandra benner" Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... >From: "Perry Lloyd" > > > > "Serving God directly to the best of my ability." > > "What did you do?" > > "I slashed the throats of 23 virgin girls either as they slept or after >I > > had knocked them unconscious with chloroform (sp?)." > >Maybe it's just me, but I fail to see how this could constitute serving God >directly in any but the more Dim/Dark campaigns. > "So, why did you kill them then?" "well, those virgins were in time going to all meet up, and open a brothel. That would be b.a.d. So i killed them to stop the spread of filth, disease and lust in to the world. They in total would have killed aver three hundred men, and ruined a number of familes as they spread AIDS and such like." "oh, ok" Cas *Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be Evil.* In Nomine @ http://www.angelfire.com/goth/psyber/i-n.html In Nomine yahoo @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/inveritas ADnD forum @ http://www.drunkendwarfinn.co.uk ADnD stuff @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ADandD_Stuff _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:03:01 -0500 From: Christopher Pipinou Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... On Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:59:52 +0000 "cassandra benner" writes: > "So, why did you kill them then?" > "well, those virgins were in time going to all meet up, and open a brothel. > That would be b.a.d. So i killed them to stop the spread of filth, disease > and lust in to the world. They in total would have killed aver three > hundred men, and ruined a number of familes as they spread AIDS and such > like." > "oh, ok" To which the response from most Mercurians, or Servitors of Novalis (or even possibly Yves) might be... "So why didn't you just encourage them to go different paths?" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:16:29 -0800 (PST) From: Empress Undauntra Subject: IN> Books for Haagenti's stomach? Hi everyone, I'm new to IN and I want to run an adventure inside of Haagenti's stomach. The working title is "Innard Space". What books would you all recommend? I have the Hardcover IN book, and Heaven & Hell. Also, I have some questions for the powers that be: 1. If your celestial form has been swallowed by Haagenti, can you still descend to the corporeal plane (assuming you have a vessel)? 2. Can you invoke your Archangel/Prince from inside of Haagenti? Thank you very much, Undauntra __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 23:21:34 +0000 From: "cassandra benner" Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... >To which the response from most Mercurians, or Servitors of Novalis (or >even possibly Yves) might be... > >"So why didn't you just encourage them to go different paths?" "Sir, i am a killer, i maim and mutilate, i am not a social worker or a civil servant." Cas *Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be Evil.* In Nomine @ http://www.angelfire.com/goth/psyber/i-n.html In Nomine yahoo @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/inveritas ADnD forum @ http://www.drunkendwarfinn.co.uk ADnD stuff @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ADandD_Stuff _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:42:08 -0800 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: IN> Books for Haagenti's stomach? >What books would you all >recommend? I have the Hardcover IN book, and Heaven & >Hell. Well, the most obvious one would be Superiors 2: Sins of the Flesh, since it has a very long, very detailed write-up of Haagenti. Probably the Game Master's Guide would be a good one too, just because it includes a variety of useful ideas and optional rules (including guides to help the GM determine the powers of superiors and how to play them). > >1. If your celestial form has been swallowed by >Haagenti, can you still descend to the corporeal plane >(assuming you have a vessel)? I'd say no. I don't think anything like it is mentioned, but I think it makes sense. And if they could, it would kinda hamper your adventure, wouldn't it. > >2. Can you invoke your Archangel/Prince from inside of >Haagenti? If Haagenti's currently in Hell, I think archangels would be unable to contact you. If he was somewhere else, and/or your superior is a demon prince, I think you could hypothetically invoke them, but they wouldn't show up unless you were a very important servitor (after all, it would probably start a fight). Actually, Kobal might show up. But he'd probably just crack a smile and then vanish again. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:57:05 -0500 From: Christopher Pipinou Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... On Wed, 23 Jan 2002 23:21:34 +0000 "cassandra benner" writes: > >"So why didn't you just encourage them to go different paths?" > > "Sir, i am a killer, i maim and mutilate, i am not a social worker or a > civil servant." Be that as it may... I still have to find it exceedingly difficult to believe that it was a _Destiny_ to kill a large number of folks who had not yet achieved their Destinies or descended to their Fates. It doesn't make logical sense, unless your campaign involves the number of Angels being so infinitesmal, and the number of Soldiers and Relievers equally so, that if someone has to be sent in to resolve a problem - especially one involving twenty-three separate individuals who will ultimately conspire together to serve Andrealphus and Malphas in a most extensive way - it would be someone who apparently has even less qualms about killing than a Malakite. Your campaign may vary - personally, I have a hard time believing Jack the Ripper achieved his Destiny, irregardless of who his victims were. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 17:08:16 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Burzelic Subject: Re: IN> Books for Haagenti's stomach? - --- Empress Undauntra wrote: > Hi everyone, I'm new to IN and I want to run an > adventure inside of Haagenti's stomach. The working > title is "Innard Space". What books would you all > recommend? I have the Hardcover IN book, and Heaven > & > Hell. > Wow, I am impressed. That would be very cool to take part in. AFAIK, you're treading into new territory as I haven't read Superiors 2 yet, in which the expanded write-up for Haagenti appears. I tried writing up a little motivation for Haagenti but I don't think it really caught the list's attention since I foolishly didn't make my meaning clear. It basically suggested that the reason Haagenti eats so much is that his great maw is actually a gate to somewhere else and that he is , unknown to everyone else, truly the demon of starvation, a cruel curse put on him by Lucifer. > Also, I have some questions for the powers that be: > > 1. If your celestial form has been swallowed by > Haagenti, can you still descend to the corporeal > plane > (assuming you have a vessel)? > I'm not one of the powers-that-be, but I'd imagine not. Once your in, there's no getting out. At least not yet. > 2. Can you invoke your Archangel/Prince from inside > of > Haagenti? > Well, my gut reaction is no. But I like the idea of invoking your Superior, they answer the call, and there before them is Haagenti. Both blink at each other. Mayhem ensues. > Thank you very much, > > Undauntra > You are welcome very much, Jim __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeing new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 17:37:33 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Books for Haagenti's stomach? - --- Empress Undauntra wrote: > Hi everyone, I'm new to IN and I want to run an > adventure inside of Haagenti's stomach. The working > title is "Innard Space". What books would you all > recommend? I have the Hardcover IN book, and Heaven > & > Hell. Superiors 2, Liber Canticorum (to forstall your PCs when they try to get the Hell out of the place via Song use) and Liber Reliquarum (good general thing to have). IN Anime might be useful, too - although I may be just saying that so that people will buy it. :) > Also, I have some questions for the powers that be: > > 1. If your celestial form has been swallowed by > Haagenti, can you still descend to the corporeal > plane > (assuming you have a vessel)? For play balance? I'd say "No": it'd be a short adventure otherwise (after all, who would WANT to be in Haagenti's tummy?). One good handwave would be that when Haagenti eats a physical vessel, the unlucky appetizer would have to make a Will Roll at a hefty penalty to avoid being sucked in, too. Thus, you'd have a lot of celestial forms Inside with no way out. Also, getting out might be difficult may be difficult if where you are isn't exactly _on_ any of the Three Planes... > > 2. Can you invoke your Archangel/Prince from inside > of > Haagenti? I like Jim's answer on this one. Certainly getting eaten by Haagenti would be a good way to break a celestial's Heart, which would make the point fairly moot for dissonant celestials. Of course, if you happen to be a Servitor of a Superior who's also inside Haagenti, well, that's a whole different story... ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 01/01/02(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeing new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 20:46:21 -0500 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Books for Haagenti's stomach? >Of course, if you happen to be a Servitor of a >Superior who's also inside Haagenti, well, that's a >whole different story... > snip Hmmm... Hello there Mariel.... Though, it'd be interesting if it turned out that 'Limbo' is actually Haagenti's gut. Josh "The Word of Haagenti's Stomach!? You gave me the Word of Haagenti's Stomach?!" or in a different way of looking at it... "I'm seneschal of WHAT?!" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:51:57 +1000 From: "Shane" Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... On 23 Jan 2002, 21:45, Perry Lloyd wrote: >>> (Where *do* you put the delusional killers who slay innocent children, >>> not because they want to, but because they believe God wants them to? >>> They aren't doing it for themselves, but for GOD - or so they think.) >> >> If they reached their Destiny, then Heaven. If they reached their Fate, >> Hell. If neither, they discorporate, some of their Forces recombine with >> other Forces, and poof, some of those Forces start a happy new life with >> a new Destiny and Fate. >> >> At least, by my reading of the Canon... > > I mean socially, where do they fit in? As I understand it, having Free Will includes having the ability to say "No" to God - whether that God is real or delusional... But if they're so delusional that their brain chemistry Truly compromises their Free Will, then they don't have the Choice(s) that are required for achieving their Destiny and/or Fate. Either they're stuck with one of the other options (eg reincarnation), or if the IN universe wants to avoid such a box of metaphysical worms, then their Destiny and Fate would be based on some aspect of their Free Will that is not compromised by the delusions - even though it may be associated. Eg, a deluded killer who achieves Destiny by striving to make sure the victims do not suffer any pain, versus a deluded killer who meets its Fate by taking sadistic pleasure in the deaths. > So, who takes him? Novalis, for his Mercy? Marc, for his business sense? > Dominic, for his judgement? I'd suggest Novalis, to help the poor soul cope with a lifetime spent living a Lie forced on it by a defective piece of corporeal matter. Of course, this presumes that the IN universe makes allowances for brain chemistry compromising Free Will. If it doesn't, then... that's another box of worms. Shane. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:57:56 -0500 From: "Tyler Childers" Subject: IN> The Deluge Well, as it stands, I am combining Gurps In Nomine, Call of Cthulhu (covered in the wonderful Chtulhupunk), and Gurps Cabal. Depending on the amount of time, money, and mental resources I will, more than likely put the campaign into the Steampunk era...looking forward to some reworking with Jean, and Valupa. The magic system stymies me a bit. At least the ways to mold them togethor. Should AA, or big Ethereals has access to hermetic magic? I don't think they should. It doesn't seem fair that even humans can use songs, but then the way that the gurps conversion presesents it for canon, songs would just be spells for humans. Or would it? Cthuloid summoning/calling/banishing and the like can be cast by anyone that can read the individual spell. And isn't that just so darn convient for the Elder gods? I will also be working on some major etherials. Cabal presents a much greater viewpoint of the realms. I may place the Deepest of Marches inside Briah. And have Briahtic Eikons with the same scope as Celelstial AA, or DP. The only question I have at that juncture is wheter to use the existing gurps rules for spirits and how they appear on the Corporeal (Assiah) or convert them using essence. They later seems to bridge the gap fairly well. Finally any comments on the standard gurps advantage, Awareness. For hermetic magi and the like from Cabal, would it be nearly the same as Symphonic Awareness? Or a scaled down version. Thanks y'all. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:01:54 -0500 From: "S.D." Subject: IN> Haagenti's Digestive System [was: Re: Books for Haagenti's stomach?] >Hmmm... Hello there Mariel.... > >Though, it'd be interesting if it turned out that 'Limbo' is actually >Haagenti's gut. Reminds me of an odd idea I had about Haagenti. See, first off, Celestials don't have to eat, especially in celestial form. They *can*, and may even enjoy it, (just look at Gluttony, Creation, and/or the Angel of Cooking), but they don't *have* to. So they don't have a corporeal-like digestive system. A *celestial* digestive system, on the other hand, they *do* have. And what would Celestials consume? Essence, of course...and Forces. Mechanics time. A Celestial consumed by Haagenti immediately loses access to his/her/its Vessel, and its Heart becomes 'fogged' if not cracked/broken. Nothing can be seen through it. The Celestial also cannot 'snap' back to the Heart, barring a favorable Intervention. Now, multiply (total personal Forces plus total Word-forces) by Will, and that's how long the Celestial has before Haagenti's digestive system kicks in. note: Celestial Forces determine the unit of time used here. Find the total number, then check your answer against the Geas table for how long. (i.e., one Cel Force = hours, six = years.) For a Superior/equivalent, just use 'decades'. At the end of (total Forces * Will) (appropriate time unit), the Celestial loses the first Force. (And gains the corresponding penalties as if lost in celestial combat.) This Force is almost invariably Corporeal, or at least generally personal, though Word-bound may lose *two* Word-forces instead. Multiply the new number of total Forces by 6 again, and that's how many years before the next one (or two) is lost. Normal pattern is (Word -) Corporeal - Ethereal - Celestial. Continue on until all Forces are lost, and the being is forever gone. For a Celestial consumed by *another* being, the mechanics are approximately the same. However, 'years' may be substituted for 'time frame of choice', depending on who's doing the consumption. (i.e., a Jordian/Creationer/Glutton might take almost the same time as Haagenti since their digestive systems could be assumed to be used as often.) - - Inside Haagenti's Stomach: For purposes of roleplaying, treat as Limbo, though the being remains conscious as long as he/she/it has a Celestial Force, and capable of coherant thought as long as an Ethereal Force remains. Whether or not Will rolls to escape are permitted is up to the GM. The truly unlucky may encounter certain sensations that would banish all hope of escaping. You see, Haagenti *did* consume Oblivion and Sloth, and neither's quite all the way gone yet... ~S.D. Ryukage ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ * Mikage takes off her shirt. This has little to do with Jesus. "If Jesus asked me to take off my shirt, I'd /really/ ask for his ID." "That would be an interesting pickup line. 'Hi. I died for your sins. Show me your boobies.' ...right, right, hell, I know." "Maybe he just wants to check your breathing and your heartbeat. Heal the sick and all." "He can heal the sick without copping a feel." "'Oh, Lord, shall I enter into the kingdom of Heaven?' 'Take off your pants.' '...You're new at this, aren't you?' 'It's his day off. I'm filling in.'" 'Quotes Out Of Context' - Technomancy ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2523 ********************************