in_nomine-digest Thursday, January 24 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2524 In this digest: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... IN> fate and destiny Was: ethereal & odd thought Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> Questions about Malakim oaths Re: IN> the War Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Re: IN> fate and destiny Was: ethereal & odd thought Re: was: Re:IN> the War Re: IN> the War Re: IN> the War IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2523 Re: IN> Haagenti's Digestive System [was: Re: Books for Haagenti's stomach?] Re: IN> Haagenti's Digestive System [was: Re: Books for Haagenti's stomach?] Re: IN> the War Re:IN> Books for Haagenti's stomach? Re: was: Re:IN> the War Re: IN> Books for Haagenti's stomach? IN> The EPG (was Re: the War) Re: IN> The Deluge Re: IN> The EPG (was Re: the War) Re: IN> The EPG (was Re: the War) Re: IN> The EPG (was Re: the War) Re: IN> The EPG (was Re: the War) Re: IN> Books for Haagenti's stomach? Re: IN> In Nomine/DC cross-over (was: a quick question) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:09:29 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... cassandra benner wrote: > >"So why didn't you just encourage them to go different paths?" > > "Sir, i am a killer, i maim and mutilate, i am not a social worker or a> civil servant." "Then since you're not a Malakite, you get to go to Hell." - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 03:14:50 +0000 From: "cassandra benner" Subject: IN> fate and destiny Was: ethereal & odd thought >cassandra benner wrote: > > >"So why didn't you just encourage them to go different paths?" > > > > "Sir, i am a killer, i maim and mutilate, i am not a social worker or a> >civil servant." > > >"Then since you're not a Malakite, you get to go to Hell." Ah i have run my games that dark before, but i was only following on a quote that soem one else started, and i was the only person paying attention to that thread. However... Destiny: Stop the spread of evil in X town. Fate: Kill 23 virgins. Acheive both of these (like in how i followed it on) and PERSON DISOLVES TO THE SYMPHONY or at least thats what i recall of cannon. But cannon dont come round here too often, it dont like the whuppings it gets. Cas *Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be Evil.* In Nomine @ http://www.angelfire.com/goth/psyber/i-n.html In Nomine yahoo @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/inveritas ADnD forum @ http://www.drunkendwarfinn.co.uk ADnD stuff @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ADandD_Stuff _________________________________________________________________ Join the world s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 04:48:50 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... > > > (Where *do* you put the delusional killers who slay innocent children, > > not > > > because they want to, but because they believe God wants them to? >They > > > > > aren't doing it for themselves, but for GOD - or so they think.) > > > > If they reached their Destiny, then Heaven. If they reached their Fate, > > Hell. If neither, they discorporate, some of their Forces recombine >with > > other Forces, and poof, some of those Forces start a happy new life with > > a new Destiny and Fate. > >And most of the time, these delusional killers are far more likely to meet >their fate. If believing you were serving God was enough to make it so, the >Habbalah would be angels. Not quite. It's not the believing yourself to be serving God, it's the selflessness in serving such a belief (after all, the Elohim believe they serve God, too, only their evidence for it is much more credible). No Habbalah is selfless enough be an Elohite, otherwise they'd be one. I'm talking about a delusional state that one acts upon in complete selflessness. Not because you want to. Besides, Habbalah set their own agenda and act out of their own selfish desires. They just delude themselves wholly, rather than partially as the Balseraphs seem to (Balseraphs can choose to change the Lie, which implies a certain separation from the Lie). side-note : Perry's theory of the Western God as tied to the above. [As for Habbalah serving God. If God is omnipotent and is His Will but what the free willed humans do, then the Fall (performed by Angels; who do not have Free Will) was His will ... thus Lucifer serves God's Will and the Habbalah do as well. If this were not true, then would not be omnipotent, and therefore not much of a God. By this theory, God wills the War to be happening, God wills Good and Evil to be at War. To my thinking, this would explain the Holy Land - why there's so much conflict surrounding it and why God does little to stop it. Yahweh was/is the ancient Hebrew god of War, wasn't he? Thus Michael's "he who is like God" name makes all the more sense. Michael represents what God *is* : conflict. Conflict through which we make grow, conflict through which people can learn to live with one another, or learn that that have to agree to disagree. Conflict through which we attain greater political awareness (you mean the U.S.'s policies abroad can have consequences to our own citizen on our home turf!?). Without conflict there can be no peace, no healing, no evolution if you will. Growth requires conflict. BTW, in the European game, Lucifer's original name was Samael and Yves' was Micha묮 Their AA of War is named Michel. (Which explains why Yves is so like God as discussed in H&H, despite the fact that Michael means "he who is like God," not Yves.) YVES (m) "yew" from Germanic iv. This was the name of a 14th-century saint from France. http://www.behindthename.com/y.html YVES: French form of Old German Ivo, "yew wood." http://www.20000-names.com/male_y_names.htm - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________ Rejoignez le plus grand service de messagerie au monde avec MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com/fr ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 05:18:47 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Questions about Malakim oaths > > How much bending or breaking of canon would be involved in granting this > > character a slight delay in taking his third and fourth oaths? > > Bah! Bend, break, fold, spindle and mutilate it to your heart's >content if >that is what works for you. Canon sets a foundation to build upon, and if what you want to build demands a different shaped foundation - change it!! > > And my final related question, would a Reliever fledging as a Malakite >take > > all her oaths at once, or could the fourth oath be the act that >transforms > > the reliever into an angel? > > I would rule that all four Oaths would be sworn once the Reliever >fledges as >a Malakite. They would have enough years as Relievers to think about what >they >would swear anyway. Not that they'd necessarily have much Earth experience upon which to base those oaths ... I'd say it depends on the Archangel. I'd imagine that Eli would demand that the new Malakite choose his oaths right then and there (as they would be forced to grow in new and interesting ways if their oaths were poorly choosen), and I see Dominic allowing his new Malakim some time over which to choose his oaths. After all, it's not like he won't be checking in with them every week (and it's good judgement sfaik to give the Malakim some time to reflect once they get used to their new nature - either that or make them choose all four, letting them know they have XXX months to change their minds). - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos est le moyen le plus simple de partager et imprimer vos photos : http://photos.msn.fr/Support/WorldWide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 05:43:51 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> the War > > Okay ... about Ba'al ... WHY is he powerful again? WHY is THE WAR a > > powerful word? > >Because up until it's finished, it will touch and affect almost everything >going on in the Symphony. > >The War may be very recent, but it is in no way unimportant. As another >example, consider the Media -- that Wrd didn't *exist* two centuries ago, >and yet it's one of the most powerful out there precisely because the Media >touches so many aspects of human life. > >The War between Heaven & Hell touches so many aspects of /all Creation/. > >-- >Chuckg Then we *definitely* need an In Nomine in Space source book. Vapula's asteroid mines, the Planets as ethereal deities (Pluto, Jupiter, c'mon). I dunno, I was thinking about Words being more important by their connection to humanity. The Media was -created- by humanity, but the War was not. Animals- closely connected to humanity, but the War? The War seems to have been centralized mostly in the "West" - as opposed to China, Japan, India, Africa, etc ... sure, sure, those parts of the world have been opened up in the past 200 years, but ... Most of humanity, up until the Islamic population explosion, the expansion of Christianity from Europe to Africa and the New World, was not touched by the Judeo-Christian-Muslium entities ... unless the Archangels and their minions just went by different names, and if that's the case, why the hell haven't we heard about it?! - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________ Rejoignez le plus grand service de messagerie au monde avec MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com/fr ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:13:36 -0800 From: "Brian Rogers" Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... > If believing you were serving God was enough to make it so, the > >Habbalah would be angels. > > Not quite. > It's not the believing yourself to be serving God, it's the selflessness in > serving such a belief (after all, the Elohim believe they serve God, too, > only their evidence for it is much more credible). No Habbalah is selfless > enough be an Elohite, otherwise they'd be one. I'm talking about a > delusional state that one acts upon in complete selflessness. Not because > you want to. Ooh! Ooh! What about a Habbalah with a Discord of Selfless/6? Would he be an Elohite??? Brian - -- _______________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup 1 cent a minute calls anywhere in the U.S.! http://www.getpennytalk.com/cgi-bin/adforward.cgi?p_key=RG9853KJ&url=http://www.getpennytalk.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 00:22:19 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Rogers" To: Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 12:13 AM Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... [snip] > Ooh! Ooh! What about a Habbalah with a Discord of Selfless/6? > > Would he be an Elohite??? Maybe not right away, but with a little time and help, he'd have good odds of making it. - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 16:26:48 -0800 From: Kish Moore Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal AA and an interesting thought... Perry Lloyd wrote: > > >On Sat, 19 Jan 2002 00:55:41 "Perry Lloyd" > >writes: > > > well, a fact is defined as "something that is generally agreed > > > upon" > > > >Actually, my dictionary defines it as "something demonstrated to exist, > >or have existed." > > I imagine that one of several definitions, yes. :) > > > > (Where *do* you put the delusional killers who slay innocent children, > >not > > > because they want to, but because they believe God wants them to? They > > > > > aren't doing it for themselves, but for GOD - or so they think.) > > > >If they reached their Destiny, then Heaven. If they reached their Fate, > >Hell. If neither, they discorporate, some of their Forces recombine with > >other Forces, and poof, some of those Forces start a happy new life with > >a new Destiny and Fate. > > > >At least, by my reading of the Canon... > > I mean socially, where do they fit in? > > "Wow, what was your destiny?" > "Serving God directly to the best of my ability." > "What did you do?" > "I slashed the throats of 23 virgin girls either as they slept or after I > had knocked them unconscious with chloroform (sp?)." > > So, who takes him? Novalis, for his Mercy? Marc, for his business sense? > Dominic, for his judgement? Saminga. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 07:25:06 -0500 From: Christopher Pipinou Subject: Re: IN> fate and destiny Was: ethereal & odd thought On Thu, 24 Jan 2002 03:14:50 +0000 "cassandra benner" writes: > >cassandra benner wrote: > >"Then since you're not a Malakite, you get to go to Hell." > > Ah i have run my games that dark before, but i was only following on a quote > that soem one else started, and i was the only person paying attention to > that thread. > > However... > > Destiny: Stop the spread of evil in X town. > Fate: Kill 23 virgins. And in so doing, spread Nightmares / Fear (Hi Beleth!), forward the cause of Death (Howdy, Saminga! Like your new Tether?), Factions (Malphas, old boy!A little town turns itself against each other blaming one another for the murders! Well done!), probably Dark Humor (massacring in the name of God, not for what has been done, but what might be done. Kudos to you!), and, of course, Fate (a human descended to his Fate, rather than achieving purely his destiny). Find me again how a string of serial killings would help, exactly? "We had to turn the rest of the town to Evil in order to save it, sir!" Hmm. Maybe Belial's involved, too -- the Demon of Pointless Scorched Earth Exercises (a Habbalah?). > Acheive both of these (like in how i followed it on) and > > PERSON DISOLVES TO THE SYMPHONY ..either to reincarnate, or to never again show its face. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 05:36:51 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: was: Re:IN> the War - --- Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Didn't the Aztecs do self-sacrifices as well? Things like > running a > bramble through a hole in their tongues, or > self-scarrification? Yep. > (I would assume other cultures had their own > blood-rituals...) Pharaonic circumscision in Africa (thank you, Magog!), the Sun Ceremony of the Plains Indians... the list goes on and on (but thankfully, I won't). ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 Existential fast food slogan: "Why's the beef?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 05:56:17 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> the War - --- Perry Lloyd wrote: > Most of humanity, up until the Islamic population > explosion, the expansion > of Christianity from Europe to Africa and the New World, > was not touched by > the Judeo-Christian-Muslium entities ... unless the > Archangels and their > minions just went by different names, and if that's the > case, why the hell haven't we heard about it?! Because the writers and designers of games tend to have a Eurocentric mindset. Makes sense when you consider that all of the major game companies are staffed mostly (if not entirely) by Whites. Some companies are making efforts to correct that, but progress is slow. I'd love to see IN take a big step forward on this issue with the EPG -- there's an opportunity for multiculturalism waiting to happen. Of course, Beth and David E. are the only ones who know if that manuscript shows promise in that regard. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 Existential fast food slogan: "Why's the beef?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 09:19:17 EST From: CsHoneyman@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> the War In a message dated 24/01/02 14:05:24 GMT Standard Time, thunderdog_sa@yahoo.com writes: > Because the writers and designers of games tend to have a > Eurocentric mindset. Oy, tell me about it. I'd be very interested in seeing other cultures presented from an insider's perspective, but it always seems to be related from the white middle ager's pov. Ah, no offence to the writers of IN, btw, just that most rpgs seem written by that kind of people. > Makes sense when you consider that > all of the major game companies are staffed mostly (if not > entirely) by Whites. Some companies are making efforts to > correct that, but progress is slow. Same everywhere, no? >I'd love to see IN > take a big step forward on this issue with the EPG -- > there's an opportunity for multiculturalism waiting to > happen. Of course, Beth and David E. are the only ones who > know if that manuscript shows promise in that regard. I'd like to see whether the various pantheons get relegated back to the usual stereotypes... I know it's so people can more easily relate ot it, but it always seems to be: Celtic Faeries, Norse Vikings and the like. I'd like to see the Morrigan and Cernunnos and actual factual druids. And what about the mainland Germanic/English pantheons? They developed from the same roots as did the Norse, but could be quite different. Or the Slavic/Russian gods? They had a god for every day of the week, even... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:45:47 -0500 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2523 - -----Original Message----- From: in_nomine-digest To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Date: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 10:04 PM Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2523 >Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:57:56 -0500 >From: "Tyler Childers" >Subject: IN> The Deluge > >Well, as it stands, I am combining Gurps In Nomine, Call of Cthulhu (covered >in the wonderful Chtulhupunk), and Gurps Cabal. Depending on the amount of >time, money, and mental resources I will, more than likely put the campaign >into the Steampunk era...looking forward to some reworking with Jean, and >Valupa. Egads, I had the same Idea a few months ago! Combining In Nomine and Cabal, at least. I never considered adding the Cthulhu Mythos, but considering Cabal's Qlippothic entities, the Mythos fits in perfectly. >The magic system stymies me a bit. At least the ways to mold them togethor. >Should AA, or big Ethereals has access to hermetic magic? I don't think they >should. It doesn't seem fair that even humans can use songs, but then the >way that the gurps conversion presesents it for canon, songs would just be >spells for humans. Or would it? It's your decision, ultimatly. But I'd make Songs something more powerful then your average Spells, limiting Hermetic Magic to Cabalists, with other Mages using more limited spell magic. One Idea I had was to swipe Sean Punch's "Primal Powers" campaign elements, making Corporeal Forces Chi, Ethereal Forces Psi, and Celestial Forces Magic, each kind of Power Investiture giving a different type of Power; Corporeal Songs would basically be physical Chi Powers, Ethereal Songs would be Psionic Powers, and Celestial Songs would be normal Spells. >Cthuloid summoning/calling/banishing and the like can be cast by anyone that >can read the individual spell. And isn't that just so darn convient for the >Elder gods? If we consider the Elder Gods to be Qlippothic beings, you'll have to explain how they managed to get rituals out there to summon them, since technically, Qlippoth can't be summoned to the Physical Realms. >I will also be working on some major etherials. Cabal presents a much >greater viewpoint of the realms. I may place the Deepest of Marches inside >Briah. And have Briahtic Eikons with the same scope as Celelstial AA, or DP. >The only question I have at that juncture is wheter to use the existing >gurps rules for spirits and how they appear on the Corporeal (Assiah) or >convert them using essence. They later seems to bridge the gap fairly well. >Finally any comments on the standard gurps advantage, Awareness. For >hermetic magi and the like from Cabal, would it be nearly the same as >Symphonic Awareness? Or a scaled down version. Thanks y'all. I'd probably adapt Essence to replace Endurance for most magical effects. As for the Ethereals, I'd make them beings of both Yetzirah and Briah, with the Purity Crusade having been waged to remove all Ethereals from Assiah. But I'd probably make some changes with the Archangels, since the Cabal's Archangels are completly different from In Nomine's Archangels. - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:00:20 -0500 (EST) From: Ryan M Roth Subject: Re: IN> Haagenti's Digestive System [was: Re: Books for Haagenti's stomach?] On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, S.D. wrote: > > See, first off, Celestials don't have to eat, especially in celestial form. > They *can*, and may even enjoy it, (just look at Gluttony, Creation, and/or > the Angel of Cooking), but they don't *have* to. So they don't have a > corporeal-like digestive system. > > A *celestial* digestive system, on the other hand, they *do* have. And what > would Celestials consume? Essence, of course...and Forces. > > Mechanics time. [snipped] This interesting, but I would make the following addition: If you find yourself in Haagenti's stomach, you are in fact at the exact focal point for the entire word of Gluttony. You are literally surrounded by the Word itself, and it bears down on your existence with tremendous force. Spend enough time there, and you yourself start to become...hungry... Mechanics: At the end of the time period (given previously), the Celestial may make a Will+Celestial Forces roll (minus any levels of the Gluttonous Discord the Celestial may have). If successful, nothing additional happens. If failed, the celestial gains a level of Gluttonous. Those beings that cannot resist the urge to devour will eat anything that they come across -- meaning anything that Haagenti has already consumed. Needless to say, it's never pretty in there; just imagine the brightest Mercurian you know of devouring a human corpse and you'll get the idea. The Gluttonous Discord, while within the Stomach, doubles it's penalty to resist eating something -- anything -- but also confers a special ability. Celestials with any level of the Gluttonous discord have the ability to eat other celestials and souls that they can find -- indeed, they can restore one of their forces by consuming two forces of another individual. Treat as combat (assuming the victim doesn't want to be eaten) -- if the gluttonous celestial can tear away two or more forces, he can spend a turn devouring each one, adding to his own forces in a 2:1 ratio. This is only a replacement for forces lost through Haagenti's digestion or to forces devoured by other celestials -- a being cannot exceed his orginal forces through devouring. The reason the force consumption is not a 1:1 ratio is because Haagenti's intestines act to devour the extra force. Thus, Gluttony reaches the zenith of its power within Haagenti's stomach, with celestials constantly trying to devour each other so that they can extend their own lives a bit longer, so that they can eat more, and live a bit longer, to eat more... Those powerful Word-bounds that were eaten by Haagenti are still in there too, devouring all they come across and searching for a way out. ************************************************************************ "Oh yeah? Well if you're really evil, than eat this kitten!" "No! That's just WRONG!" --- The Tick ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:08:32 EST From: CsHoneyman@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Haagenti's Digestive System [was: Re: Books for Haagenti's stomach?] In a message dated 24/01/02 15:02:55 GMT Standard Time, rmr48@columbia.edu writes: > just imagine the brightest > Mercurian you know of devouring a human corpse and you'll get the idea Oooh! Ooh! Subset of the Need Discord - Cannibalism... Or it could even be a new Discord on its own... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:00:31 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> the War CsHoneyman@aol.com wrote: > Oy, tell me about it. I'd be very interested in seeing other cultures > presented from an insider's perspective, but it always seems to be related> from the white middle ager's pov. Damn, am I middle-aged already? :( > Ah, no offence to the writers of IN, btw, > just that most rpgs seem written by that kind of people. And played. There are, of course, non-white RPGers, but not many. (At least in this country. RPGs are pretty popular in Japan, and have some popularity in Korea.) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:42:13 -0600 From: "Cthulhu" Subject: Re:IN> Books for Haagenti's stomach? Empress Undauntra wrote: The working >title is "Innard Space". Aaagh. Beats the "Belly of the Beast" title I've been messing about with. >2. Can you invoke your Archangel/Prince from inside of >Haagenti? I'd say no, unless of course you're a Servitor of Sloth or Oblivion... though quite how sane Mariel or Meserach will be after close on a thousand years in Haagenti's guts is anybodies guess. A year or so back someone wrote up Spud, the Angel of Potatoes, which played with this concept (Haagenti ate Spud by accident while the angel was possessing a cartload of said vegetables). I don't remember who posted it, as I lost the entire contents of my hard drive over Christmas (where I keep, *kept*, my archives), but if anyone could post it again I can see it being useful. And I'd love to get another copy of it myself. Cthulhu _____________________________________________ Free email with personality! Over 200 domains! http://www.MyOwnEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:49:16 -0600 From: "Cthulhu" Subject: Re: was: Re:IN> the War Michael Walton wrote: >> Now the Ba'ali were actually fairly peaceable. By which I >> mean that they >> didn't start wars, and they got their asses kicked >> whenever someone else did > > I suspect that Hannibal would be amused to hear that. :) I'm regarding the Carthaginians and Baali as seperate groups here. The Baali may have been in that city (amongst others), but most of the Carthaginians weren't Baali. Anyway, most of the military might of Carthage came from being rich enough to hire the best mercenaries. Though I will admit that their navy was very impressive. > I'll defer to those who've done more research on this >subject, but I'm not sure that child sacrifice was part of >Baal worship. I do know that such sacrifices accompanied >the worship of Moloch and Chemosh, who (in IN) were either >nasty Ethereals or fronts for Saminga. Please don't anybody take my word as gospel either, I'm only going on stories I've heard. You may well be right Michael. Cthulhu _____________________________________________ Free email with personality! Over 200 domains! http://www.MyOwnEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 15:08:42 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Books for Haagenti's stomach? At 3:16 PM -0800 1/23/02, Empress Undauntra wrote: >Hi everyone, I'm new to IN and I want to run an >adventure inside of Haagenti's stomach. The working >title is "Innard Space". What books would you all >recommend? I have the Hardcover IN book, and Heaven & >Hell. All of them! *ahem* Let's see... Superiors 2: Pleasures of the Flesh, for Haagenti. The Game Master's Guide, for obvious reasons. Possibly helpful: The Infernal Player's Guide might be useful, considering what _else_ is likely to be in there. You Are Here might provide some general inspiriation. >1. If your celestial form has been swallowed by >Haagenti, can you still descend to the corporeal plane >(assuming you have a vessel)? If you are assuming that Haagenti doesn't simply destroy people with a swirling mass of Calabite resonance inside him, then nope -- swallowed is swallowed. >2. Can you invoke your Archangel/Prince from inside of >Haagenti? In general, I'd say no. (Optionally, as noted, you have the other Superior appear in front of Haagenti, whereupon mayhem ensues. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 15:30:18 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> The EPG (was Re: the War) At 9:19 AM -0500 1/24/02, CsHoneyman@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 24/01/02 14:05:24 GMT Standard Time, >thunderdog_sa@yahoo.com writes: > >> Because the writers and designers of games tend to have a >> Eurocentric mindset. > >Oy, tell me about it. I'd be very interested in seeing other cultures >presented from an insider's perspective, but it always seems to be related >from the white middle ager's pov. Ah, no offence to the writers of IN, btw, >just that most rpgs seem written by that kind of people. You realize that the obligatory plug for... oh, the GURPS Wish List, or simply "A 32-pager" is just -waiting- for straightlines like that one, right? >> take a big step forward on this issue with the EPG -- The EPG is more related to _ethereal (player) characters_, not pantheons. Pantheons get some glancing mentions, currently, enough to not vitally need _The Marches_, but if it were going to totally replace The Marches, and add in more material about other pantheons besides the Well Known Ones, as well as all the nice juicy stuff that's in there already... It would probably be a 300 page book, and a trifle expensive. (On the other hand, if the EPG proved popular, and 32-pagers prove popular, 32-pagers on a pantheon or two might be interesting. And there's always stuff like GURPS Aztecs and GURPS Celtic Myth, to back-convert to IN...) IOW, what it currently is now, is rules for _making_ characters, not detailed treatments of existing mythological NPCs. (But all the ones mentioned in The Marches, and the Hindu lot, get at least a passing mention.) Also note that the other co-author is R. Sean Borgstrom (of Nobilis fame, primarily; also did the further expansion of David in Superiors 1), who _does_ go in for the less-traveled stuff. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 15:15:48 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> The Deluge At 9:57 PM -0500 1/23/02, Tyler Childers wrote: >Well, as it stands, I am combining Gurps In Nomine, Call of Cthulhu (covered >in the wonderful Chtulhupunk), and Gurps Cabal. [...] >The magic system stymies me a bit. At least the ways to mold them togethor. >Should AA, or big Ethereals has access to hermetic magic? I don't think they >should. It doesn't seem fair that even humans can use songs, but then the >way that the gurps conversion presesents it for canon, songs would just be >spells for humans. Or would it? In the "canon" for GIN, we intended that Songs are Songs, and spells are spells. Humans can use spells -- and with appropriate Power Investiture and Symphonic Awareness, Songs -- while celestials and ethereals use Songs only. (Songs are based off of spells so that if little nitpicky questions come up about the effects, the GM knows where to look for similar cases that might have more data.) You _might_ want to permit some ethereals to access some of the hermetic magic... or you might not. It's good to keep humans special. O:> >The only question I have at that juncture is wheter to use the existing >gurps rules for spirits and how they appear on the Corporeal (Assiah) or >convert them using essence. They later seems to bridge the gap fairly well. I haven't managed to get through GURPS Spirits or Cabal as much as I'd like, so I'm not sure how to help you here. If Essence converts well, then you might want to just go with that. Adding Essence Control to non-humans is probably pretty easy. >Finally any comments on the standard gurps advantage, Awareness. For >hermetic magi and the like from Cabal, would it be nearly the same as >Symphonic Awareness? Or a scaled down version. Thanks y'all. Symphonic Awareness is actually more akin to a faintly mutated version of Awareness! IIRC, it's slighly longer-range, but detects things differently. If you're blending Cabal, plain Awareness would probably serve quite well to allow them to have Symphonic Awareness. (You could have subtle nuances, but those are more complex than is probably worth it for a game.) If they're using fatigue instead of Essence, though, I wouldn't bundle Essence Control into Symphonic Awareness, but make them learn that skill/power separately. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:52:16 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> The EPG (was Re: the War) - --- Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > IOW, what it currently is now, is rules for _making_ > characters, > not detailed treatments of existing mythological NPCs. Quite so. But I'd still like to see some more detailed treatment of the pantheons and/or the cultures that spawned them just because a)_somebody_ out there will want to play a spirit from one pantheon or another, and b) would you trust the average White kid from the suburbs to know how to play a Loa without offending African-Americans or Afro-Caribbeans? ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 Existential fast food slogan: "Why's the beef?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 17:05:51 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> The EPG (was Re: the War) At 1:52 PM -0800 1/24/02, Michael Walton wrote: >--- Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> IOW, what it currently is now, is rules for _making_ >> characters, >> not detailed treatments of existing mythological NPCs. > > Quite so. But I'd still like to see some more detailed >treatment of the pantheons and/or the cultures that spawned >them just because a)_somebody_ out there will want to play >a spirit from one pantheon or another, and b) would you >trust the average White kid from the suburbs to know how to >play a Loa without offending African-Americans or Afro-Caribbeans? Oh, I want to see more detailed treatments as well! However, I don't think the EPG is quite the place to go into it at the moment. There are simply too many gods and spirits around... However, if it sells well, 32-pagers, yadda yadda. O:> Or someone rich will buy all the copies of The Marches so it will be out of print and I can cheerfully work on a second edition thereof. I would rant more, and more clearly, but the baby is awake and objects to my keyboard use. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 17:01:54 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> The EPG (was Re: the War) Michael Walton wrote: > > would you > trust the average White kid from the suburbs to know how to > play a Loa without offending African-Americans or Afro-Caribbeans? Either I wouldn't or an editor wouldn't, which means they'll stay invisible until a suitable black kid does it. Or until a very convincing white/latino/oriental/other manages to breach this timidity barrier. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 17:29:05 -0500 From: Christopher Pipinou Subject: Re: IN> The EPG (was Re: the War) On Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:52:16 -0800 (PST) Michael Walton writes: > Quite so. But I'd still like to see some more detailed > treatment of the pantheons and/or the cultures that spawned > them just because a)_somebody_ out there will want to play > a spirit from one pantheon or another, and b) would you > trust the average White kid from the suburbs to know how to > play a Loa without offending African-Americans or Afro-Caribbeans? Without offering offense... I'd say, if it works within that campaign, go for it. After all, how many campaigns really get press coverage? If your group's conception of a Loa works well enough that the GM and players are all reasonably okay with it, why worry if it's not precisely accurate? 'Course, were I the GM, I'd expect the player to head on down to the library before playing something that s/he wasn't familiar with... and I'd do the same... Best, Chris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:52:44 -0800 (PST) From: Empress Undauntra Subject: Re: IN> Books for Haagenti's stomach? - --- Maurice Lane wrote: [snip] > For play balance? I'd say "No": it'd be a short > adventure otherwise (after all, who would WANT to be > in Haagenti's tummy?). The PCs, of course. They've just been ordered to scout out the innards on a fact-finding mission. Getting in isn't as easy as it seems either. Sure, Haagenti will eat anything. But it's not that easy to get close to him without someone else noticing and killing you. Besides, there's a world of difference between being swallowed whole and being thoroughly masticated first. Undauntra __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 22:53:13 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine/DC cross-over (was: a quick question) >I am playing an IN-inspired angel in a DCU game now. The game is not a true >cross-over, but here are my observations so far about trying to play an IN >angel in a DCU game: >3. But despite all your brawn, you will never kill or be killed by a demon >as DCU is set in a Nerf gun world. It's real hard to feel you are wrath of >God when you carrying a Flaming Nerf Sword of Justice!(tm) ha ha ha, reminds me of my IN game. Sure, you can kill the Demons' vessels, but be assured, they'll be back. My players are pretty Celestial combat shy, not that I blame them. kewl, thanks for the tidbit. - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________ Rejoignez le plus grand service de messagerie au monde avec MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com/fr ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2524 ********************************