in_nomine-digest Sunday, January 27 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2528 In this digest: IN> What the ... IN> What the ... Re: IN> What the ... IN> Fairy Meat - ethereal playground? IN> Re: IN China? Re: IN> 'What's Eli Doing?' - the low probability answer Re: Heaven's security clearances (was Re: IN> 'What's Eli Doing?') Re: IN> 'What's Eli Doing?' - the low probability answer IN> Divine analogues of Sorcery IN> Is there an official bit in canon... Re: IN> Is there an official bit in canon... Re: IN> Is there an official bit in canon... Re: IN> Is there an official bit in canon... IN> What was Metatron's Word? Re: IN> Is there an official bit in canon... IN> As we were talking about Voodoo and others... Re: IN> Is there an official bit in canon... Re: IN> What was Metatron's Word? Re: IN> What was Metatron's Word? Re: IN> Is there an official bit in canon... IN> Had to be done... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 07:24:42 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> What the ... http://www.consumptionjunction.com/feat/cc/detail.asp?ID=6537 kobal? eli? nybbas? humanity? [Be warned, this page is not for the faint of heart or those easily offended by (dancing) japanese men.] - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________ T鬩chargez MSN Explorer gratuitement ࠬ'adresse http://explorer.msn.fr/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 07:26:54 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> What the ... http://www.consumptionjunction.com/feat/cc/detail.asp?ID=6537 kobal? eli? nybbas? humanity? [Be warned, this page is not for the faint of heart or those easily offended by (dancing) japanese men.] Yatta! The Japanese N'Sync http://64.62.57.31/adult_cdn/01048ABAAMgAAAAEDRce1Ibe3SNK.hK2QvvGUr_kyvD.u8zGsvRfr4G5nODglb7BXPco6_BtIdgms/cj_6537.asf (to link directly to it.) - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________ Rejoignez le plus grand service de messagerie au monde avec MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com/fr ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 02:36:00 -0500 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> What the ... That's.... just *wrong*. - -- Casca (And a surprisingly catchy tune, too. ) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 07:41:06 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Fairy Meat - ethereal playground? http://www.newwavegames.com/minis/kenzer/fairymeat/ - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________ T鬩chargez MSN Explorer gratuitement ࠬ'adresse http://explorer.msn.fr/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 10:56:33 +0000 From: "Jonathan Walton" Subject: IN> Re: IN China? >I dunno. a 32-pager about China in the IN world, I'd buy it. I'm working on it, sheesh! :) Seriously, Sun Wukong (that's the Monkey King for the folks at home) is sitting on my desktop, waiting for me to stop memorizing characters long enough to get the proposal finished. But if it's going to have a chance in the Yama King's Hell of getting published, someone's going to have to buy copies of Genevieve's book. Lots and lots of copies... Later. Jonathan Beijing, China _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 12:31 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) From: jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) Subject: Re: IN> 'What's Eli Doing?' - the low probability answer In article , cglasgow@hotmail.com (Charles Glasgow) wrote: > Or maybe not even Michael -- although I personally lean to > the theory that keeping Michael out of the loop on something > like this only increases the risk that War's forces will > accidentally do something to inconvenience or stumble across > it, and it's not as if you can't trust him to both keep his > mouth shut and be effectively un-interrogatable by anything. There's an important counter-argument. When you know your enemy has a good intelligence operation, it's risky for your commanders to know that they are likely to have special and high-quality intelligence; it may affect their actions. Especially when you're dealing with the First Seraph, who has a fundamental relationship with Truth. You get very paranoid about the possibility of giving clues. I suspect that Michael and Baal, with their staffs, have some capability to deduce each other's motives from their actions. Laurence, as a Malakite, is harder for demons to really understand, and IMHO he's capable of being more self-disciplined than Michael. He's certainly going to be better at acting in ways that constitute lies, and lying to his staff. Book recommendation on this subject: _Fortitude_, by Roger Hesketh. The after-action report on the deception operation for Operation Overlord. - --- John Dallman jgd@cix.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 07:52:53 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: Heaven's security clearances (was Re: IN> 'What's Eli Doing?') - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice Lane" To: Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 11:40 PM Subject: Re: Heaven's security clearances (was Re: IN> 'What's Eli Doing?') [snip] > *Considering the amount of redundant spy agencies > that, say, the USA has, I don't think it's > unreasonable to postulate that Heaven is any better. > Heck, they're probably _worse_: can you imagine turf > fights between rival bureaucracies staffed by immortal > blessed souls? :) In a Dark campaign, sure. In a Bright campaign, or even just a more-light-than-dark campaign, not really -- selflessness is kinda endemic up there, ya? Turf wars, I can imagine existing in mild form. Worse than what's down here? If I understand the IN-verse correctly, the only place that's worse than down here is Hell. And even then, humans sometimes beat out the demons. - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 07:55:27 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> 'What's Eli Doing?' - the low probability answer - ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Dallman" To: Cc: Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 6:31 AM Subject: Re: IN> 'What's Eli Doing?' - the low probability answer [snip] > I suspect that Michael and Baal, with their staffs, have some capability > to deduce each other's motives from their actions. Laurence, as a > Malakite, is harder for demons to really understand, and IMHO he's capable > of being more self-disciplined than Michael. He's certainly going to be > better at acting in ways that constitute lies, and lying to his staff. Goodness, I never suggested keeping Laurence out of the loop -- not only for the reasons you listed but also because he's the commander-in-chief, and therefore is *always* presumed to have the need-to-know. OTOH, the only Seraph with a keeping-his-mouth-shut problem is Litheroy, and that's a Word-problem and not a Choir-problem. For the best example, look at Dominic -- he's a Seraph /and/ specifically tasked with rooting the Truth out of every last angel, and he's still keeping more secrets than almost anybody in Heaven. From both his own side and the others'. - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 14:15:25 EST From: CsHoneyman@aol.com Subject: IN> Divine analogues of Sorcery Or, more to the point, why isn't there one? Has anyone thought of doing Theurgy as an alternative? I mean, there are Saints and the like, but there isn't really any kind of 'magical' equivalent on the side of Heaven. And there should be, IMO; after all, what is a prayer or Mass/whatever but an attempted act of magic? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 14:26:44 EST From: CsHoneyman@aol.com Subject: IN> Is there an official bit in canon... ... about Atheists? I mean, according to IN, are we all off to Hell or what? I'd look but I can't find my books... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 14:38:54 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Is there an official bit in canon... >... about Atheists? I mean, according to IN, are we all off to Hell or what? >I'd look but I can't find my books... Nope, atheists can go to Heaven as long as they fulfill their Destiny and not their Fate, and so on, just like all other humans. Yves proposed the whole monotheism thing starting with the Jews a few thousand years ago, but it's not mandatory. Some angels, especially the really devout ones, tend to twitch about that, but canon allows atheists in. William ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 17:31:16 EST From: CsHoneyman@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Is there an official bit in canon... If only we could get xians to admit it... Heh. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 08:08:26 -0800 From: Kish Subject: Re: IN> Is there an official bit in canon... CsHoneyman@aol.com wrote: > > ... about Atheists? I mean, according to IN, are we all off to Hell or what? Belief in God is irrelevant to afterlives in IN. If you meet your destiny (which may have nothing to do with religion), you go to Heaven, and if you meet your fate (which may be very religious itself) you go to Hell. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 19:25:56 EST From: CsHoneyman@aol.com Subject: IN> What was Metatron's Word? Does anyone know? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 19:11:46 -0500 From: Christopher Pipinou Subject: Re: IN> Is there an official bit in canon... On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 08:08:26 -0800 Kish writes: > CsHoneyman@aol.com wrote: > Belief in God is irrelevant to afterlives in IN. If you meet your > destiny (which may have nothing to do with religion), you go to Heaven, > and if you meet your fate (which may be very religious itself) you go to > Hell. In the Infernal Player's Guide, they mention Tchort, the Balseraph who holds the Word of Atheism, which he manages to continue to promote even in Hell... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 19:33:46 EST From: CsHoneyman@aol.com Subject: IN> As we were talking about Voodoo and others... I thought I might as well post the link to the Yahoo! Faiths and Practices section so people could research stuff if they wanted to. http://dir.yahoo.com/Society_and_Culture/Religion_and_Spirituality/Faiths_and_ Practices/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 22:57:20 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Is there an official bit in canon... Christopher Pipinou wrote: > In the Infernal Player's Guide, they mention Tchort, the Balseraph who > holds the Word of Atheism, which he manages to continue to promote even> in Hell... http://www.amadan.org/Innomine/Tchort.html - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 00:07:26 -0500 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> What was Metatron's Word? >Does anyone know? snip Don't know how canon this is, but I don't think a lot of celestials were word-bound until after the Rebellion. There was Lucifer, Gabriel, Oannes, Janus, etc. Beings who encompassed a part of the physical element of the world. Others, like Baal, might have promoted some more 'complex' ideas, things that were taking shape with humanity. But Michael, I believe, didn't have a Word until the Fall, when God saw that such a Word was needed. The Metatron, existing before the Fall as it did, didn't so much have a Word as a function. It was the Voice of God. God communicated via this being, a celestial that might have existed more in the Higher Heavens than it did below Jacob's Ladder. Course, that last bit is pure conjecture and not canon. Josh ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 22:31:31 -0700 From: Timothy Groth Subject: Re: IN> What was Metatron's Word? Personally I always thought that the Metatron was more of a thing than a person. Sort of like a reverse bull horn so that things that God said could be heard on a normal scale. What Lucifer did was sort of tear the tongue out of God so that God could no longer give guidance safely. Sure God could now do things and prophets could sort of pick up on it before it happened but no longer could God actually discuss things with angels. However in two campaigns I was involved in he was a Worded Archangel. The first was one I ran and he was Archangel of the Voice, embodying God's literal proclamations. Anything he said God meant (where as Gabriel channeled what God felt). In the other one that I played in for a little while he was the Archangel of Communion, representing the link between the Divine and everything else. Meaning that Lucifer had essentially won when he had killed him and was now just waiting for heaven's dying spasms to stop. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 00:09:00 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Is there an official bit in canon... From: > ... about Atheists? I mean, according to IN, are we all off to Hell or what? Atheists, like everyone else in IN, only wind up in Hell if they meet their Fates. Likewise, they only end up in Heaven if they achieve their Destinies. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 10:52:41 -0500 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: IN> Had to be done... Inspired by a game at Moe's house... ===================== Wishlat Balseraph of The Media Demon...of...over..ACTING Corporeal Forces: 3 Strength: 6 Agility: 6 Ethereal Forces: 4 Intelligence: 9 Precision: 7 Celestial Forces: 4 Will: 10 Perception: 6 Vessel: Kevin St. Paul (Acting Coach)/4, Status/4 Skills: Artistry (Writing)/2, Dodge/5, Emote/6, Fighting (Dramatic, Flashy Martial Arts)/2, Knowledge (Acting)/6, Large Weapon (Fencing Foil)/3, Savior/Faire/4 Songs: Attraction (Corporeal and Celestial)/4, Charm (Corporeal)/3, Light (Ethereal)/5, Motion (Corporeal)/2, Thunder/3 Attunement: Balseraph of the Media, Balseraph of Dark Humor, Knight of Influence, Captain of Swank, Demon...of...over...ACTING Demon...of...over..ACTING: Somewhat limited in usage, but still put to great effect. Wishlat must spend 3 Essence at a performance given by one of his students that takes place in front of an audience of 50 or more. On a successful roll against Will, the audience will be spellbound by the performer. Reviews will be favorable, the crowd will be adoring fans, and that performance will always be remembered as the defining moment when an actor "Made it big." Yes, you heard the name of his Word correctly. And unless you are a Knight or Higher, you *damn* well better pronounce it that way you just heard it. Wishlat was just the average Balseraph of the Media with the usual dreams of power, adoration, money, pet Lilim, etc., etc. When he finally got the Big Break from Nybbas, he found himself on Earth as an acting coach. This may sound a bit unusual to those who have some knowledge about the Media. Sending a demon to coach a bunch of talking monkeys on performing seems almost a punishment detail. Wishlat, however, took to it with a passion. HE would be noticed in this job. HE would send new talent into the bloody feeding pool that is The Media! HE would...over..COME! His strategy was simple. And God help everyone, it worked. In every class, he had at least one person that had acting talent that was equivalent to a rock. This person would earn the Balseraph's attention. Wishlat would work his Resonance on him, pushing hard to prove conclusively that he was truly a gifted actor. And given the average personality of people that choose the acting profession, Wishlat didn't even need to push them that hard. It was more of a gentle forward pressure applied between the shoulder blades. Ever since then, the ranks of actors on screen and stage were growing with the people that studied at the St. Paul Institute of Theatrical Arts. They are flamboyant, loud, obnoxious and they overact (Excuse me; I mean over...ACT). And the crowds love them. Comedians love to lampoon them, which increases their fame. Entertainment reporters flock to them and the open loathing of the critics drive up the ticket sales. Somewhere in the middle of all of it, Wishlat earned the attention of Nybbas and Kobal at the same time. This kind of attention focused on one demon ends one of two ways. Luckily for Wishlat, it was the good kind. The Demon Princes invited Lucifer to a performance of one of Wishlat's students where the Balseraph was in attendance. The sight of Wishlat encouraging the crowd to adore the hack on stage convinced the First Balseraph that a promotion was warranted. He went backstage and congratulated Wishlat with his Word. Recognition from Lucifer has only reinforced Wishlat's image of himself. He *knew* that he was special above all other Servitors of the Media. His rapid rise to power only proves it! And ever since, his acting school has been filled with young hopefuls that the demon cheerfully offers up as a sacrifice to the masses. In case it wasn't obvious enough, the word "modest" was burned out of Wishlat's dictionary long before he came to Earth. He is arrogant, secure in his belief of superiority, and every bit of praise towards him is treated as something that is owed to him. Most other demons of The Media prefer to keep their distance from Wishlat and deal with him only when he has a new actor to promote. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2528 ********************************