in_nomine-digest Tuesday, January 29 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2531 In this digest: Re: IN> Suffragan Archangels Re: IN> Suffragan Archangels & Restricted attunements IN> Mammon vs Haagenti Re: IN> Suffragan Archangels IN> Word promotion Re: IN> [ADMIN] Socks, people. (Re: Is there an official bit in canon...) IN> Angels in the Deadlands. IN> Suffragan and Grand Dukes IN> Xianity Re: IN> Is there an official bit in canon... Re: IN> Fairy Meat - ethereal playground? Re: IN> Is there an official bit in canon... Re: IN> The EPG (was Re: the War) Re: IN> Suffragan Archangels & Restricted attunements Re: IN> Xianity Re: IN> Xianity was Re: IN> Xianity Re: was Re: IN> Xianity Re: was Re: IN> Xianity Re: was Re: IN> Xianity Re: was Re: IN> Xianity Re: was Re: IN> Xianity Re: was Re: IN> Xianity Re: was Re: IN> Xianity IN> Altered Ethereals Re: IN> Mammon vs Haagenti Re: IN> Altered Ethereals Re: IN> Word promotion Re: IN> Suffragan Archangels & Restricted attunements Re: IN> Suffragan Archangels & Restricted attunements Re: IN> Suffragan Archangels & Restricted attunements IN> One name for "Choir/Band" Re: IN> Suffragan Archangels & Restricted attunements Re: IN> Suffragan Archangels Re: IN> One name for "Choir/Band" Re: was Re: IN> Xianity IN> A Word for Choir/Band IN> Interior art IN> Coming to a city new you ? Re: IN> Interior art Re: IN> Divine analogues of Sorcery Re: IN> Interior art Re: IN> Interior art ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 00:45:23 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Suffragan Archangels >From: Maurice Lane >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: Re: IN> Suffragan Archangels >Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 16:22:09 -0800 (PST) [snip] >*Obviously, Kobal's backup is named Albert. > >(pause) > >Think about it. *OUCH* Somebody's getting himself a daisy-cutter for Easter, Moe... - -- Chuckg _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 20:03:56 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Suffragan Archangels & Restricted attunements Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >Are restrictions supposed to be by Archangelic decree or by > >Word mechanics? Or is it specified? > > Word mechanics, I believe it is heavily implied. Otherwise you'd certainly have Demon Princes (and a few Archangels) who'd occasionally "cheat." In my own non-canonical worldview, taking a Choir/Band attunement of another Choir/Band means being imbued with something of the essence of that Choir/Band. (Damn, we really need an official term for "Choir/Band.") So for example, a Seraph with his Archangel's Malakite Choir Attunement should be expected to be a little more militant and honorbound than most Seraphim, an Impudite who takes his Prince's Djinn Band Attunement should be more obsessive and sulky than most Impudites, etc. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 02:02:21 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Mammon vs Haagenti http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A46869-2002Jan27.html Score one for Greed? Mammon should try to improve his relations with the Media to a much greater extent. Maybe, just maybe, Nybbas would be willing to return the favor. - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________ Discutez en ligne avec vos amis, essayez MSN Messenger : http://messenger.msn.fr ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 20:15:51 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Suffragan Archangels Interesting idea. Not too dissimilar to what I had in mind regarding some of the "maintenance workers" in Cathedrals and Principalities, powerful Servitors who are responsible for running a large chunk of a Superior's Domain. (That'll show up on a web page sooner or later, when I have the time to finish my writeup on the celestial planes and Domain mechanics, i.e., Stuff that SHOULD Have Been in Heaven and Hell.) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 02:44:04 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Word promotion It just hit me the other day. I was trying to think of ways to encourage my PCs to be more ... proactive in supporting their Words, instead of merely pushing back the forces of Darkness in a manner appropriate to their Word. You Are Here! (http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/youarehere/) I mean, the book is all about various possible locations in the IN Universe and the celestial forces at work there ... it's practically a guide or hint book for PCs on ways they could be promoting their words!!! (and things of the enemy to watch out for). Wow! On a sidenote, are the places described in this book Canon? I'm thinking specifically of the areas described as existing on the Celestial plane. - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________ T鬩chargez MSN Explorer gratuitement ࠬ'adresse http://explorer.msn.fr/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 02:54:13 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> [ADMIN] Socks, people. (Re: Is there an official bit in canon...) >Christianity isn't for flaming any more than other religions. So this >discussion can die NOW. On _both_ sides. Christianity was being flamed and I missed it?! Aw, man ... - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "The power of Christ compels you!" _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos est le moyen le plus simple de partager et imprimer vos photos : http://photos.msn.fr/Support/WorldWide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 22:01:15 -0500 From: "Tyler Childers" Subject: IN> Angels in the Deadlands. This keeps on getting sicker and sicker. I was handed a copy of Gurps Deadlands today. I must put this in my campaign. I have the basic ideas to cross pollinate IN with it. Now I am just looking for flavor. The gist is that the manitou are basically ethereal spirits corrupted by Infernal forces. Deadlands seems like a wonderful playground for Valupa, Saminga, and perhaps my fave DP Haggenti. It also looks like a great place for Eli and Jean to stomp around in. The City of Lost Angels is just too good not too use. It's addition of Holy Men, and bible thumpers, not to mention the Fear Levels in the Weird West, make it for ripe ground to plant my IN, Cthulhupunk and Cabal seeds. Now I just have to find ways to get them to Atlantis. This is gonna be a blast. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 23:05:11 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Suffragan and Grand Dukes I like the concept (Heck Michael was a Suffragan for 5 billion years until he tossed Lucifer off the top of the hill) but I think your going the wrong track with attunements and rites which are by nature aspects of the symphony one becomes attuned too. In effect an attunement to an angel is adding something to a person that defines there personality to a specific concept. In such a case the Archangels without words are likely to be considered "Grand Seraphim" in sort of a way if you want to put them a place on the council. But not necessarily are they any weaker either they simply all share the same word in a different way which is in effect "Good" or in General "Evil". To that end I suspect that these Archangels would work better as people who grant attunements based on individual personality traits and rites that they detect a person is fond of and frankly if a person is leaning towards too much a specific concept then they kindly point that person towards the appropriate archangel. and Vice Versa for Dominic with a Servitor who takes the time out as a Seraph to promote peace at a local rally, send a letter campaign to the police to crack down on violence, and hunt demons while investigating the local angel's pimping racket. As for Grand dukes if you wanted to make them extremely powerful you might have them instead become Lucifer's personal "Secret Police" basically beings who sole motivation is to promote evil in Lucifer's name. Unfortunately this makes a campaign VERY dark very quickly as suddenly there is an "angelic equivalent" of beings who serve under another willingly - -Charlemagne _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 23:07:22 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Xianity Yes indeed it is a nice shortage but if you want a theory the basic simialarity (abeit the sheer hate directed is far less in thsi comparison) is rather similar to Negro and the average African American. Technically Negro means Black so what's the problem? Well in Xianity you quite simply have Christ removed from Christianity. Sort of the whole reasoning behind Xmas. Remember Futurama? "We should get a Christmas tree." "A what?" "I think he means an Xmas tree." - -Charlemagne _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 07:59:06 +0000 From: "Jonathan Walton" Subject: Re: IN> Is there an official bit in canon... >... and you use the the >term "Christian" instead of xian. That usage just confused me. "Xian" in Chinese (second tone, I think) means "immortal," "god," or "spirit". Then it's pronouced "sheeyihn" (as one syllable). But you can probably guess what language my mind has been working in lately ;) Later. Jonathan (still in Beijing) _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 08:27:57 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Fairy Meat - ethereal playground? >Fairy Meat could serve as a great example of what happens when >once-benign Ethereals had to seek out refuge on Beleth's side of the >Marches. Almost every "race" in the game used to be a happy-go-lucky >bunch of beings until something happened to make them bad (except the >gnomes, they were almost always bastards). > >On Sat, 26 Jan 2002 07:41:06 "Perry Lloyd" >writes: > > http://www.newwavegames.com/minis/kenzer/fairymeat/ Ahhh ... now to convince my friend Graham not only to purchase the game plus minuratures (sp?) but also work with me to create the ultimate Fairy Meat-IN crossover battle scenario!! Any ideas where we could find suitable miniaturues for relievers? Granted, we could just paint some of the fairy miniatures to be relievers ... - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________ Rejoignez le plus grand service de messagerie au monde avec MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com/fr ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 08:31:51 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Is there an official bit in canon... > > "Okay, who invited Malphas onto the list?!" > >The Discordians--who else? better than the Accordians [shudder] - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________ Discutez en ligne avec vos amis, essayez MSN Messenger : http://messenger.msn.fr/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 08:47:21 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> The EPG (was Re: the War) >At 7:12 PM -0500 1/27/02, Josh Moger wrote: >[I & Sean McCarthy wrote: > > >>> No EPG playtest yet. > >> > >>Should be relatively soonish, though. > > >These words... they conjure in my mind the belief that such a book is, if > >not finished, in the works to be done so... [...] > >The EPG is, far as I know and subject to Interventions, in a stage of "Some >minor tweaks, some extra chrome, and we can do playtest." Getting the extra >chrome shouldn't take too long. Yes, especially with the recently promoted Demon Prince "Cromos" at the task!! - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________ T鬩chargez MSN Explorer gratuitement ࠬ'adresse http://explorer.msn.fr/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 05:57:22 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Suffragan Archangels & Restricted attunements - --- David Edelstein wrote: > In my own non-canonical worldview, taking a Choir/Band > attunement of > another Choir/Band means being imbued with something of > the essence of that Choir/Band. [snip] a Seraph with his > Archangel's Malakite > Choir Attunement should be expected to be a little more > militant and > honorbound than most Seraphim, an Impudite who takes his > Prince's Djinn > Band Attunement should be more obsessive and sulky than > most Impudites, etc. That makes perfect sense. I'll have to incorporate that into my campaign (whenever I get to run one again). ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 Existential fast food slogan: "Why's the beef?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 09:03:56 EST From: CsHoneyman@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Xianity In a message dated 29/01/02 04:09:40 GMT Standard Time, charlemagne1980@hotmail.com writes: > Well in Xianity you > quite simply have Christ removed from Christianity. Sort of the whole > reasoning behind Xmas. It's not a matter of hatred, it's simply shorthand. If you can't deal with it, it's your problem. It's from the Greek letter form of khristos. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 10:32:28 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Xianity Personally, I, a Christian, don't have a problem with "Xian" except that it's spelled exactly the same as a particular Chinese culture. But I suppose context will take care of that. I recall reading published letters of C. S. Lewis, in which he used the abbreviations "Xian," "Xn," and "Xty." Lewis was quite solidly Christian, but then he was also very well- versed in Greek and medieval Latin. It *is* true that "Exmas" has or had a vogue as a slightly flippant nickname for "Christmas," but I really doubt that "Xmas" originated as an attempt to "x-out" the "Christ" in "Christmas." I'd be willing to bet that it originated in an effort to save space, like most abbreviations. Dragging this thread, kicking and screaming, back toward IN, some demons probably *do* favor the term "exmas" and similar things, if they can be delivered in a flippant, belittling way, but then there are probably lots of angels that like adorning their possessions with Christian symbols, such as the chi-rho, which predates even the cross, and is various interlacings of the characters X and P. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 10:46:10 EST From: CsHoneyman@aol.com Subject: was Re: IN> Xianity The abbreviation was the point. As it's apparently so offensive to use an abbreviation, that's the last I'll say on it. Good idea on the demon bit, though - I wonder how much demons were involved in making church festivals so pagan-influenced. It must've annoyed the hell (heaven? Heh) out of Uriel... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 10:57:51 -0500 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: was Re: IN> Xianity >Good idea on the demon bit, though - I wonder how much demons were involved >in making church festivals so pagan-influenced. It must've annoyed the hell >(heaven? Heh) out of Uriel... snip I always understood it was the other way around. Christianity succeeded in assimilating the cultures that it spread to, effectively re-creating the origins of the festivals and holidays so as to give them a Christian slant and draw off the worship of pagan gods. Which would actually fit perfectly with Uriel and his crusade. He wipes out the Ethereal manifestation while Christians swallow up the Corporeal side. Either way, Ethereal worship is wiped out, allowing for Heaven to gain the upper hand and more divine essence. Unless of course you subscribe to my heretical post a few thousand back that Uriel was unwittingly working for an Ethereal god going by the name of Jesus. Josh ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 11:08:08 EST From: CsHoneyman@aol.com Subject: Re: was Re: IN> Xianity In a message dated 29/01/02 16:00:05 GMT Standard Time, jamoge@wm.edu writes: > > I always understood it was the other way around. Christianity succeeded in > assimilating the cultures that it spread to, effectively re-creating the > origins of the festivals and holidays so as to give them a Christian slant > and draw off the worship of pagan gods. Which would actually fit perfectly > with Uriel and his crusade. He wipes out the Ethereal manifestation while > Christians swallow up the Corporeal side. Either way, Ethereal worship is > wiped out, allowing for Heaven to gain the upper hand and more divine > essence. Maybe in the more cosmopolitan areas. Country people effectively just changed a few bits here and there and went on as per usual; they may not have been openly worshipped as gods anymore, but worship isn't strictly necessary, is it? IIRC, belief is what counts - so maybe Ethereals changed form slightly, but remained in altered forms. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 11:09:44 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: was Re: IN> Xianity CsHoneyman@aol.com wrote: > Good idea on the demon bit, though - I wonder how much demons were > involved in making church festivals so pagan-influenced. It must've > annoyed the hell (heaven? Heh) out of Uriel... Actually, I'd see it as a Urielite (or at least Heavenly) plot running the other way -- what C.S. Lewis called "baptizing" something pagan and making it Christian. Take an old pagan holiday like Yule or the Saturnalia and Christianize it by making it the celebration of Christ's birth. Repeat for Halloween, etc. It's part and parcel with building churches where old pagan temples used to be and re-casting pagan figures as apocryphal saints. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 11:14:53 EST From: CsHoneyman@aol.com Subject: Re: was Re: IN> Xianity In a message dated 29/01/02 16:14:02 GMT Standard Time, earlw@mc.com writes: > Actually, I'd see it as a Urielite (or at least Heavenly) plot > running the other way -- what C.S. Lewis called "baptizing" something > pagan and making it Christian. Take an old pagan holiday like > Yule or the Saturnalia and Christianize it by making it the > celebration of Christ's birth. Repeat for Halloween, etc. > > It's part and parcel with building churches where old pagan temples > used to be and re-casting pagan figures as apocryphal saints. Sometimes it works... And sometimes you end up with Voodoo... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 11:24:02 -0500 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: was Re: IN> Xianity > >> Actually, I'd see it as a Urielite (or at least Heavenly) plot >> running the other way -- what C.S. Lewis called "baptizing" something >> pagan and making it Christian. Take an old pagan holiday like >> Yule or the Saturnalia and Christianize it by making it the >> celebration of Christ's birth. Repeat for Halloween, etc. >> >> It's part and parcel with building churches where old pagan temples >> used to be and re-casting pagan figures as apocryphal saints. > >Sometimes it works... And sometimes you end up with Voodoo... A canon Ethereal religion that supports Heaven and produces divine essence... Josh ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 11:27:23 EST From: CsHoneyman@aol.com Subject: Re: was Re: IN> Xianity In a message dated 29/01/02 16:26:45 GMT Standard Time, jamoge@wm.edu writes: > A canon Ethereal religion that supports Heaven and produces divine > essence... Well, yeah. Good point. Heh. But it'd still be a bit much for Uriel, IMO. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 12:00:47 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: was Re: IN> Xianity CsHoneyman@aol.com wrote: > Good idea on the demon bit, though - I wonder how much demons were involved> in making church festivals so pagan-influenced. It must've annoyed the hell> (heaven? Heh) out of Uriel... It probably did annoy Uriel, but making Church festivals "pagan-influenced" was a deliberate decision by the Church, in an attempt to assimilate the old religions. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 10:50:02 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: IN> Altered Ethereals - --- CsHoneyman@aol.com wrote: > Maybe in the more cosmopolitan areas. Country people > effectively just changed > a few bits here and there and went on as per usual Or had a few bits changed for them, but that's essentially correct. Not that the formerly pagan cultures didn't get some of their stuff into Christianity; the Germanic "Gott" is where we get the word, "god." > worship isn't strictly necessary, is > it? IIRC, belief is what counts - so maybe Ethereals > changed form slightly, but remained in altered forms. IN supports precisely this view -- all of the Ethereals have changed from their previous forms, if only to get less powerful. Many of them also adapted to draw Essence from different worshippers as the cultures that spawned them died out. It's mainly historians and mythographers who remember Usire, Aset and Heru, but everyone knows who you're talking about when you say Osiris, Isis and Horus. When worship from the Kemeti dropped off, the Greeks picked up the slack (didn't help them when the Romans moved in, though). Likewise, the Loa made a similar adaptation to their worshippers being transplanted from their native lands and forcibly converted to Christianity. The August Prosperity Collective changed so as to draw some Essence (however meager) from manga, anime and sentai TV shows while the Faerie did the same in regard to fantasy literature. Basically, those pantheons that adapted best are the most prosperous while those that didn't change are mere shadows of what they once were. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 Existential fast food slogan: "Why's the beef?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 10:56:16 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Mammon vs Haagenti - --- Perry Lloyd wrote: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A46869-2002Jan27.html > Score one for Greed? Nah, this looks like Malphas to me. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 Existential fast food slogan: "Why's the beef?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 15:50:53 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Altered Ethereals At 10:50 AM -0800 1/29/02, Michael Walton wrote: > IN supports precisely this view -- all of the Ethereals >have changed from their previous forms, if only to get less >powerful. As a side-note, there's a comic book/graphic novel called _Sheba_. It's about a little cat-mummy who wakes up in a world where _her_ gods have faded. It's very keen. It includes some bits where Isis is telling Anubus to go put his human head on and wear this Roman armor, because they're coming to an agreement with the Roman gods... It's by Walter S. Crane IV. Amazon.com has the first volume... http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/097018140X/qid=1012337028/sr=1-29/ref=sr_1_2_29/104-0216412-7926375 (Ew, whattta mouthful.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 15:38:55 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Word promotion At 2:44 AM -0500 1/29/02, Perry Lloyd wrote: >You Are Here! (http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/youarehere/) [...] >On a sidenote, are the places described in this book Canon? I'm thinking >specifically of the areas described as existing on the Celestial plane. I consider them to be minor canon -- i.e., if some implication of them _really_ breaks the setting, then I'll change them, but otherwise... Well, the Eighth Virtue showed up as an adventure seen element in Superiors 1. I don't think any of the celestial locations are likely to bite us in the teeth to have, and are likely to add flavor. (Mind, they're probably only going to be alluded to in any book that happens to do so, because it would be a bit mean to _require_ YAH to be bought. Tempting, but mean. O:> ) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 15:34:53 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Suffragan Archangels & Restricted attunements At 8:03 PM -0600 1/28/02, David Edelstein wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> >Are restrictions supposed to be by Archangelic decree or by >> >Word mechanics? Or is it specified? >> >> Word mechanics, I believe it is heavily implied. > >Otherwise you'd certainly have Demon Princes (and a few Archangels) >who'd occasionally "cheat." Especially Eli, Janus, and... oh, anything. >In my own non-canonical worldview, taking a Choir/Band attunement of >another Choir/Band means being imbued with something of the essence of >that Choir/Band. (Makes sense to me... My other suggestion for those who want to break with the canon on that, mostly, is that they'd have to pay 10 points for it -- in essence, buying it as a Servitor Attunement. So you could then have the Cherub of the Wind with the Malakite of Creation attunement, if you really want.) >(Damn, we really need an official term for "Choir/Band.") Why do you think I pounced on Disfavored so happily, for Outcast/Renegade? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 15:58:01 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Suffragan Archangels & Restricted attunements David Edelstein wrote: >(Damn, we really need an official term for "Choir/Band.") "Chorus"? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 16:15:09 -0500 From: Eric Eves Subject: Re: IN> Suffragan Archangels & Restricted attunements Earl Wajenberg wrote: > > David Edelstein wrote: > > >(Damn, we really need an official term for "Choir/Band.") > > "Chorus"? > How about "flavor?" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 16:16:43 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> One name for "Choir/Band" David Edelstein wrote: >(Damn, we really need an official term for "Choir/Band.") Earl Wajenberg wrote: > "Chorus"? Eric Eves wrote: > How about "flavor?" Or, to continue the musical metaphor, "Key"? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 17:29:58 -0400 From: pbarkow@is2.dal.ca Subject: Re: IN> Suffragan Archangels & Restricted attunements On 29 Jan 02, at 16:15, Eric Eves wrote: > > > Earl Wajenberg wrote: > > > > David Edelstein wrote: > > > > >(Damn, we really need an official term for "Choir/Band.") > > > > "Chorus"? > > > > > How about "flavor?" > Hmm, Malakite flavor my favorite. ^_^ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 16:33:14 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Suffragan Archangels At 4:05 PM -0700 1/28/02, Timothy Groth wrote: >>Or, for that matter, Kronos' Balseraph Attunement does exactly the same >>thing. Assuming any Archangel would be willing (hello uber-Low Contrast), >>could a Balseraph of Fate take an appropriate *Choir* Attunement? > >Well I think being aligned even partially to an angelic Word would >not be a good thing for a demon. I did something like that in one of my games. It had the effect of making the demon *incredibly* dissonant, as the Symphony kept slicing its way into the demon's personal Symphony. That particular demon ended up being redeemed, but I'd think becoming a mass of discord and ultimately destroyed by the Game for consorting with the enemy would be as or more likely. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Mercurian of Revelation (candidate for the Word of Obscurity) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 16:41:06 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> One name for "Choir/Band" At 4:16 PM -0500 1/29/02, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > >> How about "flavor?" > >Or, to continue the musical metaphor, "Key"? Singular "Opus." Plural "Opera." - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Mercurian of Revelation (candidate for the Word of Obscurity) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 14:00:14 -0800 From: Sean McCarthy Subject: Re: was Re: IN> Xianity Our spies report that at 12:00 PM 1/29/2002 -0600, David Edelstein wrote: >It probably did annoy Uriel, but making Church festivals >"pagan-influenced" was a deliberate decision by the Church, in an >attempt to assimilate the old religions. The way you put it just struck me...could Janus have been involved? Thinking about it, I realize there is a whole lot of story potential in having either all/most or even just a few of the servitors of the Wind be concerned with making changes in religion in specific. In that way, you might cast Laurence and Janus as either allies or blindly meddling in each others' business to cause the Reformation. More to the point..if you take Uriel-as-true-believer, would he eventually have come to active antagonism with Janus if he had stayed around? Would that scrutiny, added to whatever is already present, have brought more light onto the Janus/Valefor matter? Most importantly, did Yves forsee this? Could we have yet another secret reason people wanted Uriel out? Or, if you want to be really paranoid, was Uriel goaded into the Purity Crusade so that he WOULD NOT be around or at least in a position to interfere with Janus later? Sean ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 14:38:13 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: IN> A Word for Choir/Band How about, "Ensemble?" ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 Existential fast food slogan: "Why's the beef?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 15:26:19 -0800 (PST) From: Empress Undauntra Subject: IN> Interior art I was leafing through my shiny new IN book, and I noticed something about the interior art. In defiance of the long-standing tradition of cheesecake gaming art, IN has some excellent specimens of beefcake. Was this intentional? Is it intended as a political statement about the demographics of gaming? Is it a carry-over from INS/MV? Don't get me wrong; I'm not complaining. I'm just wondering if I can look forward to more of the same in the other books. (And if so, which ones?) Random question while on the topic of male-appearing celestials as sex objects: Why is it always Laurence? Is there anything in canon that says he's the "sexy one"? I've noticed a lot of fiction that casts him as a naive sex object. I'm looking at his write-up in the book, and I don't see where it describes him as irresistable. Naive, yes: he's described as idealistic and young. And the accompanying picture is quite tasty. But really, Michael's picture is just as attractive if not more so, yet I don't see "Lilim drooling after Michael" stories all over the net. Jennifer __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 23:33:20 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Coming to a city new you ? http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/01/29/satellite.fall/index.html Ahh ... Any bets on which Tether it lands on? [Exactly -how much- trouble would a celestial get in (according to Canon) for publically flying up to meet it as it enters the atmosphere to stop it's deadly decent, superman style ...] - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________ Rejoignez le plus grand service de messagerie au monde avec MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com/fr ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 23:33:51 +0000 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> Interior art >Don't get me wrong; I'm not complaining. I'm just >wondering if I can look forward to more of the same in >the other books. (And if so, which ones?) I'd suggest Superiors 1. >Random question while on the topic of male-appearing >celestials as sex objects: Why is it always Laurence? I wondered about that too. I think it's because Lilim are always supposed to have this thing for Malakim (and no one has ever explained that one to my satisfaction either). But then why Laurence and not David? Possibly because Laurence has the same appeal that Spock had in *Star Trek* -- everyone thinks he's unattainable, so of course they want him. >But really, Michael's picture is just as >attractive if not more so I agree. Janet Anderson (Thank you for bringing up a cheerful subject.) _________________________________________________________________ Join the world s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 23:34:10 -0000 From: "Adam Benedict Canning" Subject: Re: IN> Divine analogues of Sorcery > Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 16:10:51 -0500 > From: Earl Wajenberg > To emulate the theurgical, white-magic side, it may only be > necessary > for an Archangel to grant a Soldier command authority over some > angels. Add to this something like Celestial Song of Tongues to > "conjure" with, and you're done. The Kabbalisct Chariot mysteries [Merkava] don't really require the command element. Which are simply stated as inviting angels round for Tea and prying into the state of your soul by weeks of fasting. The dialling chant to access the phoneline to heaven the Kabbalists have managed to decode from their analysis of the Torah is obviously a wee bit less time efficient than standard invocation [Litheroy is despairing, he worked it out in minutes, even if Yves warned him humans would take longer.]. Though it would probably work on any angel. In a dark universe the time delay is just a method of weeding out casual callers. No compulsion, just a supernatural note to say would you come round and talk. Of course there is the consideration that the really holy might talk the angel into granting them supernatural abilities, but that's covered within the rules for songs and attunements. Adam P.S. While the relevant texts don't record it Eli is partial to blackcurrant muffins with his Earl Grey, Laurence takes his tea with the full Japanese tea ceremony, which is why it has proved so difficult historically to get his attention this way. :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 16:43:30 -0700 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> Interior art > attractive if not more so, yet I don't see "Lilim > drooling after Michael" stories all over the net. Thank god. > Jennifer I think it's the nature of the people on this list, rather than anything in the books. Besides, Laurance has the whole naive thing you mentioned, and that makes him instant sex-symbol in this boy-band decade. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 17:46:06 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Interior art - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Empress Undauntra" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 5:26 PM Subject: IN> Interior art > Random question while on the topic of male-appearing > celestials as sex objects: Why is it always Laurence? > Is there anything in canon that says he's the "sexy > one"? I've noticed a lot of fiction that casts him as > a naive sex object. I'm looking at his write-up in the > book, and I don't see where it describes him as > irresistable. Naive, yes: he's described as idealistic > and young. And the accompanying picture is quite > tasty. But really, Michael's picture is just as > attractive if not more so, yet I don't see "Lilim > drooling after Michael" stories all over the net. That's because Michael isn't the impossible challenge. Laurence is. Lilim (well, many Lilim) pride themselves on their seduction skills -- it's not so much about attraction as it is about control, about manipulation, about the ability to successfully grab 'em and pick 'em for your own convenience. And anybody who could possibly seduce the Perfect Malakite, the most incorruptible incarnation of Honor in the entire Symphony short of God himself, has obviously got to be the *ultimate* Lilim. (1) That's why they want him. Not because he's drop-dead gorgeous (although he is), but because bagging him would be the ultimate proof of Lilim superiority. - -- Chuckg (1) Which explains why *Lilith herself* is one of the Lilim jockeying for position in the "Get Laurence under my spell" campaign -- and that is canon, read her comment about him in the Superiors' Opinions section of her write-up. After all, there's no way Mother could ever let herself be shown up by any of her daughters... ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2531 ********************************