in_nomine-digest Wednesday, January 30 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2532 In this digest: IN> Even more WTC Mammon fun IN> Laurence at work ... maybe Re: IN> Coming to a city new you ? Re: IN> Interior art Re: IN> Laurence at work ... maybe Re: IN> A Word for Choir/Band Re: IN> Even more WTC Mammon fun Re: IN> Laurence at work ... maybe Re: IN> A Word for Choir/Band Re: IN> Laurence at work ... maybe IN> I never drink... wine. Re: IN> Interior art Re: IN> Interior art Re: IN> I never drink... wine. Re: IN> Interior art IN> Gluttony RE: IN> Coming to a city new you ? IN> It looks like the ethereals are trying new tactics (Crossposted to Pyramid) IN> Re: Gluttony Re: IN> A Word for Choir/Band Re: IN> Interior art Re: IN> Interior art Re: IN> Interior art Re: IN> Interior art Re: IN> Interior art Re: IN> Re: Gluttony Re: IN> Interior art Re: IN> Re: Gluttony Re: IN> Interior art Re: IN> Interior art Re: IN> Coming to a city new you ? Re: IN> Interior art Re: IN> Re: Gluttony Re: IN> Coming to a city new you ? IN> Choir/Band Groupings Re: IN> Coming to a city new you ? Re: IN> Interior art ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 23:45:39 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Even more WTC Mammon fun http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/01/29/wtc.insider.theft/index.html damn, man, somebody best send a seraph or two over there to find out what the hell is going on. - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________ T鬩chargez MSN Explorer gratuitement ࠬ'adresse http://explorer.msn.fr/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 23:55:26 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Laurence at work ... maybe http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/01/29/town.satan/index.html Florida town casts out Satan INGLIS, Florida (CNN) -- If he's thinking of visiting Florida's west coast, Satan might want to steer clear of Inglis. The mayor of this small fishing village in Florida has declared the Prince of Darkness persona non grata -- in essence, telling him to go to the devil. "Satan, ruler of darkness, giver of evil, destroyer of what is good and just, is not now, nor ever again will be, a part of this town of Inglis," Mayor Carolyn Risher says in a proclamation, which was issued on official town stationery. ... The American Civil Liberties Union says the proclamation clearly violates the separation of church and state. "This is the most extreme intrusion into religion by a public official that I have ever seen in my 27 years as a director of the ACLU," said Howard Simon, executive director of the ACLU of Florida _______ Yeah. Either this is perfect for a deadly serious game, or this is the work of Kobal's minions ... either way, either/both Asmodeus and Dominic may be sending out a team to investigate ... - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________ Rejoignez le plus grand service de messagerie au monde avec MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com/fr ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 15:59:31 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Coming to a city new you ? - --- Perry Lloyd wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/01/29/satellite.fall/index.html > > Ahh ... Any bets on which Tether it lands on? Oh, it's not War-related. Belial is just arranging the fireworks for Lucifer's birthday. 0;> ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 Existential fast food slogan: "Why's the beef?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 20:00:18 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Interior art From: "Empress Undauntra" > > Random question while on the topic of male-appearing > celestials as sex objects: Why is it always Laurence? I know a lot of women who love men with great leg and posterior development, and that's something fencers seem to have in spades. Plus, he's like Lancelot without the moral failings. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 21:44:59 -0500 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Laurence at work ... maybe > >Yeah. Either this is perfect for a deadly serious game, or this is the work >of Kobal's minions ... either way, either/both Asmodeus and Dominic may be >sending out a team to investigate ... > > >-Perry snip Kobal is really going out of his way to make a tether these days... Josh ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 22:00:26 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> A Word for Choir/Band > How about, "Ensemble?" > >===== >Michael Walton I like that one. It's the first one so far that's a synonym for both Choir and Band. Nomination seconded! William ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 22:08:42 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Even more WTC Mammon fun >http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/01/29/wtc.insider.theft/index.html > >damn, man, somebody best send a seraph or two over there to find out what >the hell is going on. > >-Perry Smells more like Valefor to me. It's not only theft, it's theft from the needy, by those who were supposed to be helping them. From a Demon Prince's point of view, getting caught might be better than getting away with the cash -- this way, they steal people's trust. Valefor likes it when someone manages to make off with the less obvious stuff. William ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 21:24:32 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Laurence at work ... maybe Perry Lloyd wrote: > "Satan, ruler of darkness, giver of evil, destroyer of what is good and > just, is not now, nor ever again will be, a part of this town of Inglis," > Mayor Carolyn Risher says in a proclamation, which was issued on official > town stationery. And Lucifer laughs. > The American Civil Liberties Union says the proclamation clearly violates > the separation of church and state. And Kobal laughs. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 19:27:32 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Burzelic Subject: Re: IN> A Word for Choir/Band - --- "William J. Keith" wrote: > > How about, "Ensemble?" > > > >===== > >Michael Walton > > I like that one. It's the first one so far that's a > synonym for both Choir > and Band. Nomination seconded! > > William > I, too, like ensemble. Key was also good. I really liked Opus and Opera. A few other suggestions: Timbre(s) Pitch(es) Okay, I thought I had more. But those are my additions. Jim __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 19:24:11 -0800 From: Daiv Subject: Re: IN> Laurence at work ... maybe >Perry Lloyd wrote: >> "Satan, ruler of darkness, giver of evil, destroyer of what is good and >> just, is not now, nor ever again will be, a part of this town of Inglis," >> Mayor Carolyn Risher says in a proclamation, which was issued on official >> town stationery. > >And Lucifer laughs. > > >> The American Civil Liberties Union says the proclamation clearly violates > > the separation of church and state. > >And Kobal laughs. > >-David Maplphas, merely smiles (having no sense of humor). - -- hammer and anvil fire sweat iron and breath forging destiny ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 21:06:27 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> I never drink... wine. Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 10:47:02 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton >- --- Maurice Lane wrote: > Every time a gap opened up in the lines for > a moment, six or eight humanoids dressed all in black > would dart through. Oddly, their appearance would go > unnoticed by Nybbas' defenders... until the raiders > uncrossed their arms from across their chest and > ripped out someone's jugular from behind. > > That's just _wrong_, Moe. The Malacammies have >been alerted. Two things: one, 'Malacammies'? Is that like a blackwing version of the British female commando from Street Fighter? ;) Two, yeah, I never got around to posting these guys, huh? Better fix that... Moe Vampyres Ethereals Corporeal Forces: 2 Strength: 4 Agility: 4 Ethereal Forces: 2 Intelligence: 4 Precision: 4 Celestial Forces: 3 Will: 6 Perception: 6 Vessel: human/2, +1 Charisma Skills: Dodge/2, Emote/3, Fast-Talk/1, Fighting/3, Lying/1, Move Silently/2, Savoir-Faire/2, Seduction/3 Songs: Calling (Corporeal/1), Charm (Ethereal/1, Celestial/2), Darkness (Ethereal/1), Draining (Corporeal/1), Form (Ethereal/1), Healing (Corporeal/1), Might (Corporeal/3), Numinous Corpus (Claws/1, Wings/1), Shadows (Corporeal/1), Sleep (Ethereal/1) Disadvantages: Addiction/1 (blood), Angry/1, Fear/2 (Fire) Attunements: Vampyre Vampyre: Drinking blood allows these ethereals to temporarily boost their characteristics: every pint of blood drained allows the Vampyre to raise one characteristic by 1 (to a maximum of 12) for ten minutes. Blood may be internally 'stored' by the Vampyre for up to a week before use: the ethereal may store up to (total Forces) pints. Unfortunately, blood is officially deemed a moderately addictive, tough withdrawal drug (see page 124 of the Corporeal Players Guide for details). Many Vampyres have this Addiction at maximum levels... It's funny how things turn out. Used to be, the life of an ethereal vampire was right out of Hobbes: that is, nasty, brutish and short. Between genocidal angels, greedy demons, mad sorcerers, those pathetic loser Undead Evil Twins and screaming, screaming humans, one got used to the furtive life, for as long as it lasted. And let's not even get into what one had to look like to get ahead on the corporeal plane. White skin, stringy hair, extremely large fangs - and that's if you were lucky. There was that smell problem, too. Then, gloriously, it all changed, thanks to that wonderful, wonderful, wonderful Stoker fellow. Suddenly, vampirism stopped being a metaphor for disease and starting being one for unwholesome sex. With that came all the associated psychological baggage, true - but, all in all, ethereals generated from modern perceptions of the concept were hardly ready to complain about the shift, as it let them get out of the crypts and into the nightclubs. Things just got better and better after that. Thanks to modern tastes (and the depredations of Undead Vampires), there's enough randomized belief floating around to sustain quite a few Vampyres. Note the use of the 'Y': the ethereal versions consider themselves to be distinctly superior to the Undead of the same name, and try to emphasize the difference whenever possible. It's easy to see their point: Undead Vampires are half-failures, barely able to clutch at a clearly inferior version of immortality, while Vampyres are perfectly adjusted to be what humanity wants them to be. That's an important thing to recognize, incidentally. Vampyres are excitingly attractive predators because that's the way modern society portrays them. There are humans out there that would eagerly offer their veins to one, no questions asked or conditions made. Of course, it's precisely those humans that are feeding the majority of Vampyric-bound Essence, so the ethereals have a vested interest in keeping them alive and healthy... and for the rest, well, blood is blood and discretion is a good idea. Nobody really notices drained rats. The above are the nice things about being a Vampyre. There are still problems. First off, belief is a double-edged sword: theoretically, all Vampyres should need to survive would be belief. Unfortunately, by now it's impossible for them to disassociate themselves with the need for blood: the lack of it not only causes withdrawal, but also keeps them from exhibiting superhuman feats of physical or mental strength. The latter problem concerns them a bit more than the former. There are also the remnants of folklore: although Vampyres may no longer have to automatically cower before religious symbols (many, many do, though), they still have a universal fear of fire. They are working on discouraging that belief, too, but haven't have much luck. This has done nothing to improve their fairly bad tempers (the last lingering remnant of the days when they were avatars of the Beast). Second, there are the other players. Angels are, if anything, more homicidal these days. Ethereal predators on humanity were bad enough: evolved, clever ethereal predators are worse. No matter how sophisticated, how urbane or how careful a Vampyre might be, to the Host they're just another parasitical tumor just waiting to be excised with a flaming sword. Even Servitors of Flowers are inclined to be hard-nosed (helped, no doubt, by the fact that Vampyres cannot even be remotely considered to be humans). Demons aren't much better, frankly. At best, they expect Vampyres to immediately obey Hell; at worst, they treat the ethereals as competitors. Serving Hell is always an option, of course: many of the nastier examples of the breed would theoretically have no problem with the concept. The problem, however, is that usually Vampyres are given to Nybbas - and if there's anything that these ethereals hate, it's popular entertainment. It's just so tacky. There's also the minor difficulty that Saminga invariably destroys any Vampyre he notices (which, admittedly, might be a while), presumably because he finds their mere existence an affront to his own creations. And, of course, other ethereals are jealous of Vampyres, so they naturally can't be trusted, either. This leads to the third and worst problem Vampyres face: themselves. Individual Vampyres have a wide range of personality traits, ethical standards (or lack thereof) and outlooks on life, but there's a strong streak of arrogance running through the entire breed. Even 'good' Vampyres believe, at heart, that the rules simply do not apply to them: this can make keeping a low profile a bit awkward. All in all, they actually don't live too much longer than their bestial 'ancestors' did. They do get out more often, though, which might be seen as an overall improvement... ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 01/01/02(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 21:42:54 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Interior art - --- Charles Glasgow wrote: > (1) Which explains why *Lilith herself* is one of > the Lilim jockeying for > position in the "Get Laurence under my spell" > campaign -- and that is canon, > read her comment about him in the Superiors' > Opinions section of her > write-up. After all, there's no way Mother could > ever let herself be shown > up by any of her daughters... (opens mouth) Even if... (closes mouth) (pause) I'll skip the leadup this time, and go right to the MWMBWAHH-HAH-HAH-HAH-HAHHH!!!!! ;) Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 01/01/02(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 13:23:16 +0000 From: "Fallen Seraph" Subject: Re: IN> Interior art >From: "Charles Glasgow" > > Random question while on the topic of male-appearing > > celestials as sex objects: Why is it always Laurence? > > Is there anything in canon that says he's the "sexy > > one"? I've noticed a lot of fiction that casts him as > > a naive sex object. > >And anybody who could possibly seduce the Perfect Malakite, the most >incorruptible incarnation of Honor in the entire Symphony short of God >himself, has obviously got to be the *ultimate* Lilim. (1) > >That's why they want him. Not because he's drop-dead gorgeous (although he >is), but because bagging him would be the ultimate proof of Lilim >superiority. And then theres the _Other_ connotations of his word... (snigger) "It's the Oaths. Chicks Love the Oaths...." - -FallenSeraph "tausend graue M䵳e mit blauen M䵳eh䵳ern" http://www.geocities.com/archangel_nine ICQ: 110193631 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 05:35:03 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> I never drink... wine. - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > 'Malacammies'? Is that like a > blackwing version of the British female commando from > Street Fighter? ;) Actually, it's a Blackwing version of Camarilla vampire LARPers. Crossing one's arms over one's chest is the LARP signal for invisibility (which is what I thought you were referring to here). I'm frankly surprised that you left rpg's out of your Vampyre write-up. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 Existential fast food slogan: "Why's the beef?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 05:36:57 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Interior art - --- Fallen Seraph wrote: > And then theres the _Other_ connotations of his word... > (snigger) > > "It's the Oaths. Chicks Love the Oaths...." You know, sometimes a sword is just a sword... };> ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 Existential fast food slogan: "Why's the beef?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:07:49 -0500 (EST) From: Ryan M Roth Subject: IN> Gluttony If there was ever a collaboration between Gluttony and the Media (beyond commericals, of course) this is it: http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/WolfFiles/wolffiles.html The fact that the next one will be televisied on Fox should prove Nybbas's involvement. Ryan R. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:26:14 -0500 From: "Adams, David" Subject: RE: IN> Coming to a city new you ? - --- Perry Lloyd wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/01/29/satellite.fall/index.html > > Ahh ... Any bets on which Tether it lands on? Oh, it's not War-related. Belial is just arranging the fireworks for Lucifer's birthday. 0;> It's falling on Inglis, FL. Lucifer doesn't take kindly to being thrown out of a town. Unfortunately the Angel of Temptation(?), also called Satan, is rather confused as to why he was thrown out of a perfectly good town. Dave Renegade Calabite of Hardcore freelancing and for hire just talk to my Lilim agent. About to launch an infernal attack on Nickelodeon for taking away Invader Zim. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 08:45:37 -0600 (CST) From: ben@hiwaay.net Subject: IN> It looks like the ethereals are trying new tactics (Crossposted to Pyramid) It appears that they've realized if you can't beat them, sue them. http://www.theonion.com/onion3803/judge_orders_god.html Of course, with the top notch legal team of Marc and Dominic representing God, I'm pretty sure the ruling will be overturned. What I'm really wondering is whether the ethereals will try to subpoena Uriel, and how someone would serve it. :-) Ben, Elohite of Eli Angel of Neat Ideas ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 22:54:26 +0800 From: " Cameron McCurry" Subject: IN> Re: Gluttony Ryan M Roth said unto us: >>If there was ever a collaboration between Gluttony and the Media (beyond commericals, of course) this is it .... All in favor of flogging the TV execs that sat around and figured that this would be a good idea? No, wait; that would probably become a show as well. Nuts. - -- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 10:00:26 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> A Word for Choir/Band I'll add my vote for "Ensemble." Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 10:04:52 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Interior art Prodigal wrote: > Plus, he's [Laurence] like Lancelot without the moral failings. Then he's like Gallahad, Lancelot's son, who had no noticable moral failings, and was put forward on this list as an Ethereal Archangel, once... Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 10:06:14 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Interior art I think the interior art may run to beefcake more than cheesecake because angels are more often thought of as male than female (although there is a strong tradition in Western art for portraying them as sexless-to-feminine). Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 10:30:35 EST From: Galen Silversmith Subject: Re: IN> Interior art > Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 15:26:19 -0800 (PST) > From: Empress Undauntra > Subject: IN> Interior art > Random question while on the topic of male-appearing > celestials as sex objects: Why is it always Laurence? > Is there anything in canon that says he's the "sexy > one"? I've noticed a lot of fiction that casts him as > a naive sex object. I'm looking at his write-up in the > book, and I don't see where it describes him as > irresistable. Naive, yes: he's described as idealistic > and young. I think that is it, directly; that he's _Naive_. For some reason, this culture has a virgin fetish, and this (along with the rest of Laurance's bonus points for a conquest) make him an ideal target. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 07:35:54 -0800 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: IN> Interior art And who's also chaste, which would be a big let-down for all the bright lilims. > >Then he's like Gallahad, Lancelot's son, who had no noticable >moral failings> >Earl - -Bevan - ------- "We've always been under siege. The 'Real World' keeps shoving us into corners -- so we've built some worlds of our own. Now whoever's controlling this... wants to take those worlds away. Well, I call that interplanetary war." -T. Campbell, "Fans: the Fandom Menace" _________________________________________________________________ Join the world s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 07:37:59 -0800 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: IN> Interior art In Islam, one of the great heresies is to imagine female angels (which is kinda ironic, as Israfel, one of the four big Muslim angels, is a woman in In Nomine). In Christianity, Gabriel is accepted to be pretty much the only female angel (and even she flip-flopps between male and female). >From: Earl Wajenberg >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: Re: IN> Interior art >Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 10:06:14 -0500 > >angels are more often thought of as male than female > >Earl - -Bevan - ------- "We've always been under siege. The 'Real World' keeps shoving us into corners -- so we've built some worlds of our own. Now whoever's controlling this... wants to take those worlds away. Well, I call that interplanetary war." -T. Campbell, "Fans: the Fandom Menace" _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:45:36 -0500 From: Eric Eves Subject: Re: IN> Re: Gluttony > All in favor of flogging the TV execs that sat around and figured that this would be a good idea? > No, wait; that would probably become a show as well. Nuts. > -- So? You're saying that the flogging of TV execs wouldn't make a good show? Perhaps if you make it a game show, where the contestant who flogs them most effectively wins valuable prizes. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:48:12 -0500 From: Eric Eves Subject: Re: IN> Interior art Bevan Thomas wrote: > > In Christianity, Gabriel is accepted to be pretty much the only > female angel (and even she flip-flopps between male and female). What brand of Christianity is this? Every Christian doctrine about angels /I/ ever heard of describes them as being genderless. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:53:57 -0500 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Gluttony >> All in favor of flogging the TV execs that sat around and figured that this would be a good idea? >> No, wait; that would probably become a show as well. Nuts. >> -- > >So? You're saying that the flogging of TV execs wouldn't make a good >show? > >Perhaps if you make it a game show, where the contestant who flogs them >most effectively wins valuable prizes. Dunno if that'd fall under Dark Humor or Divine Fire... Josh ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:20:40 -0800 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: IN> Interior art > >Every Christian doctrine about angels /I/ ever heard of describes them >as being genderless. Well, they are technically genderless, but the art still presents them as masculine. Except for Gabriel, some of the time. And a couple of angelologys have described Gabriel as female, alone of all the hosts of Heaven. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 12:30:14 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Interior art Bevan Thomas wrote: > Well, they are technically genderless, but the art still presents > them as masculine. Hm. The Medieval and Renaissance art I've seen usually shows angels as "masculine" only in that they don't have evident breasts. The build is almost always delicate, the face always beardless. One could try to guess based on shoulder and hip width, but they usually wear these voluminous robes... According to the Thomas Aquinas, by the way, angels had no bodies and had position but no extension -- making them "point particles" in modern terms. Their apparent bodies were crafted by shaping and coloring air. Oh, and they could all teleport. According to Renaissance Neo-Platonists, angels did have bodies of a sort, but these were pure air or ether, capable of arbitrary shapeshifting. This is the model Milton uses. I think he was the one who also depicted angels as having only one sense, but it acted in every part of the angelic body and included all the functions of all five human sense; thus a Miltonic angel could see out of its elbow, if it happened to want to have an elbow. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 12:50:36 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Coming to a city new you ? At 23:33 -0500 1/29/02, Perry Lloyd wrote: >http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/01/29/satellite.fall/index.html > >Ahh ... Any bets on which Tether it lands on? > >[Exactly -how much- trouble would a celestial get in (according to Canon) >for publically flying up to meet it as it enters the atmosphere to stop it's >deadly decent, superman style ...] That thing's not exactly a basketball like Sputnik -- I don't think any celestial short of a Superior could use brute force like that and get any real effect out of it. On the other hand, a clever application of Cel. Song of Machines, and you a) don't have any obvious stuff for the mundanes to worry about, and b) it falls *right* where you want it to go when you give it just a *little* push. (OK, so maybe that's stretching the Song a bit far.) Besides, the amount of damage this thing is going to do is pretty minimal, it looks like. If you want something effective, try using falling rocks. You can make a pretty good-sized hole with a relatively small meteoroid, and they're probably a bit easier to target than something that has all kinds of irregular structure that falls apart chaotically under re-entry stress. And for those who like long-term plans, you can always have someone go out to the Kuipier Belt and give a little, precisely-calculated nudge to one of those comets out there. So it's maybe a little difficult to get a celestial out there, and it takes a few thousand years to take effect. Wanna bet Vapula hasn't read Lucifer's Hammer...? - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 12:59:22 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Interior art At 15:26 -0800 1/29/02, Empress Undauntra wrote: >Random question while on the topic of male-appearing >celestials as sex objects: Why is it always Laurence? Black wings and the fact that he's a real challenge, I think. If Uriel were still around, it would probably be him, instead. >Is there anything in canon that says he's the "sexy >one"? The LE's opinion is probably some of the source of that -- she's a fencer.... (Well, she fenced in college, at least.) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 10:37:41 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Re: Gluttony - --- Josh Moger wrote: > >Perhaps if you make it a game show, where the contestant > who flogs them > >most effectively wins valuable prizes. > > Dunno if that'd fall under Dark Humor or Divine Fire... You remember The Dukes of Hazard? Miami Heat? V.I.P.? Punishing TV execs is definitely Gabriel's work. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 Existential fast food slogan: "Why's the beef?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 10:44:49 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Coming to a city new you ? - --- Walter Milliken wrote: > Besides, the amount of damage this thing is going to do > is pretty minimal, it looks like. I seriously doubt that a 3.5 ton object moving at multi-Mach speed would do minimal damage on impact. Good thing that it's supposed to break up on reentry -- but Corp Shields could prevent that... > Wanna bet Vapula hasn't read Lucifer's Hammer...? Read it? He was probably wondering who leaked one of his Armageddon contingency plans to Mortals! ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 Existential fast food slogan: "Why's the beef?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 13:20:22 -0700 From: "Ruth Evers" Subject: IN> Choir/Band Groupings I shared this with my gaming group Sunday... A Suite of Seraphim A Chorus of Cherubim A Fleet of Ofanim An Ensemble of Elohim A March of Malakim (Yes, Moe, it's really an Oh, S***!!!, but that's not printable) A Concatenation of Kyriotates A Melange of Mercurians A Jig of Grigori or a Waltz of Watchers a brood of balseraphs a din of djinn a conflagration of calabim a horde of habbalah a Lot of lilim a sickness of shedim an illness of impudites _________________________________________________________________ Join the world s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 20:56:51 -0000 From: "Merior" Subject: Re: IN> Coming to a city new you ? Walter Milliken wrote: > And for those who like long-term plans, you can always have someone go > out to the Kuipier Belt and give a little, precisely-calculated nudge to one > of those comets out there. So it's maybe a little difficult to get a > celestial out there, and it takes a few thousand years to take effect. > Wanna bet Vapula hasn't read Lucifer's Hammer...? > Well, judging by the ammount that Sparky is screaming I think that I won't try taking you up on that one... - - Merior (merior@talk21.com) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:53:25 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Interior art At 3:26 PM -0800 1/29/02, Empress Undauntra wrote: > In defiance >of the long-standing tradition of cheesecake gaming >art, IN has some excellent specimens of beefcake. [questions snipped] The SMIF art, I presume? No clue why he chose to do that. But I'm glad he did... O:> >Don't get me wrong; I'm not complaining. I'm just >wondering if I can look forward to more of the same in >the other books. (And if so, which ones?) Hmmmmm..... The Rev Cycle, actually, has a fair number of good SMIF bits in it. It also gets Ramon Perez, whose work -- even when I disagree *cough*dominic*cough* with the portrayal -- is always detailed and nice. (And his Gabriel is just KEEEEEEN.) >Random question while on the topic of male-appearing >celestials as sex objects: Why is it always Laurence? Because he's unobtainable, with a naive innocence that invokes the predatory-protective instincts. That he tends to be drawn as a bit of a "hottie" helps foster this, as well. (And once it becomes a cliche, the running joke fodder perpetuates it.) See, Laurence, you flirt at him and he gets all confused/twitchy/refuses politely (depending on the author); flirt with Michael, and he might take you up on it. Which might be fun, but is less... "safe." That, and the tradition of Malakim having Good Views because they work out so much. Which is, really, in the way of being another running joke. [mental note: have Malakite character who is paunchy. Probably Creation. Deadly Doritos of Doom!] At 11:33 PM +0000 1/29/02, Janet Anderson wrote: >>Random question while on the topic of male-appearing >>celestials as sex objects: Why is it always Laurence? > >I wondered about that too. I think it's because Lilim are always supposed >to have this thing for Malakim (and no one has ever explained that one to my >satisfaction either). It's not all of them -- it's just the ones they catch. (Possibly because it annoys the Malakim?) Or, more cogently, the theory is that Malakim are the "flip side" of Lilim. Self-Geases that last forever, etc. The other aspect that probably nails a fair number of redeemed is the ability to look at them as Those Scary, Terrifying, Boogyman Angels -- who are, if the vignette in the main book is to be believed, utterly terrifying to the average demon -- are now _protectors_. That which one feared above nearly all else is now that which one can hide behind. (Frankly, I suspect that dark Lilim go after Malakite centerfolds not necessarily because the Malakim are cute -- but because getting a _real_ picture of one is dangerous, and so they're rare, and rarity causes value. And Lilim understand ALL about value!) >But then why Laurence and not David? Possibly because >Laurence has the same appeal that Spock had in *Star Trek* -- everyone >thinks he's unattainable, so of course they want him. That, and he's the "Holy Grail" of Lilim hucksters. Think about it: you can get a 'nude pic' of David with a little work and a telephoto lens (or remote camera...). Can you get something like that of THE High Swordie himself? At 5:46 PM -0600 1/29/02, Charles Glasgow wrote: >That's why they want him. Not because he's drop-dead gorgeous (although he >is), but because bagging him would be the ultimate proof of Lilim >superiority. That too! - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2532 ********************************