in_nomine-digest Monday, February 4 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2537 In this digest: IN> Who made who? Part 1 Re: IN> Who made who? Part 1 Re: IN> Deluge Background Re: IN> Who made who? Part 1 IN> Who Made Who? part 2 Re: IN> Who Made Who? part 2 Re: IN> Who Made Who? part 2 Re: IN> New Attunements (Really, This Time! ;^) ) Re: IN> Who made who? Part 1 Re: IN> Deluge Background Re: IN> Who made who? Part 1 Re: IN> Who Made Who? part 2 Re: IN> Who made who? Part 1 IN> New Discord ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 18:22:38 -0800 From: Vaughn Romero Subject: IN> Who made who? Part 1 Howdy fellow purveyors of canon and heresy, I've been mulling over the origins of the various archangels and demon princes/princesses for my own little heresy and have some gaps that perhaps y'all can help me fill in. I'm looking for information on a couple of things: What words AAs held before the Fall, any canon statements about AA or DP origins, and opinions about my observations. - --Vaughn NOTES * My heresy assumes that God only directly created Yves and the first seven angels. All other archangels and consequent demon princes/princesses are the creation of some other AA or DP. * Key (C) = Canon. Origin that I am fairly confident is canon. (C?) = Canon? Origin that may be canon but I have doubts about. (MH) = My Heresy. Origin that I concocted for my heresy. These ideas are currently in favor. Feel free to comment on them. (?) = Help. Origin that I concocted but feel iffy about and need your help with. * Format AA/DP Name (Word before fall / Word after fall) created by CREATOR (Note). Comments. THE BIG LIST OF WHO MADE WHO The first beings ================ A. Yves (Destiny) created by GOD (C). Canon says he a choirless soul acting as an archangel. B. Metatron (Voice of God) created by GOD. Canon says he was unseen but acted as God's mouthpiece. 1. Michael (None / War) created by GOD (C). In (MH) Michael is a wordless AA embodying struggle before the fall. 2. Lucifer (Light / ?) created by GOD (C). Lucifer in (MH) has a definite mission, but that's a post for another time. 3. Baal (Valor / The War) created by GOD (C) 4. David (Stone) created by GOD (C) 5. Eli (Creation) created by GOD (C) 6. Uriel (Purity) created by GOD (C) 7. Gabriel (Fire / Divine Fire) created by GOD (C) The second batch ================ Asmodeus (? / The Game) created by DOMINIC (C?) or URIEL (?). Asmodeus is described as being an early servitor of Dominic in S1, but the early creation date listed in the GMG makes me wonder if one of the original angels could have created him. Whoever created him, I assume that Asmodeus' Pre-fall word was something like Law or Order. I see Purity being a good fit because it would definitely concern itself with accurately codifying the order of things. Also I see Asmodeus with a 'letter of the law' nature rather than a 'spirit of the law' nature, which I associate more with the Purity. Asmodeus would have been especially hated for being a (or the only) fallen angel of Uriel, but after surviving the crucible of Uriel's wrath he would be one strong SOB. Also, being a creation of Purity would explain his fanatical hatred of traitors. I don't prefer Dominic as the creator theory because I use the Ben Kenobi vs. Anakin Skywalker aspect elsewhere. Beleth (Fear / Nightmares) created by MICHAEL (MH). Fear promotes struggle because one must overcome it to become stronger. Also look at Michael's howl attunement and you see the connection. This also neatly explains Michael's S1 view of Blandine; he wishes that Blandine had been more like his own creation Beleth. Not to mention it gives Lucifer a special reason to have recruited Beleth - she was one of Michael's creations. Blandine (Dreams) created by LUCIFER (MH). Like Light, Dreams embody hope and are made of insubstantial stuff. This would perhaps explain why Lucifer didn't court Blandine - she was already one of his. Perhaps Lucifer assumed (incorrectly) that Blandine would join him during the rebellion and he therefore spent his energies converting Beleth instead. This would make Blandine's anger at Lucifer all the greater if it were her father that stole Beleth away. A case can also be made for Gabriel or Yves being Blandine's creator. Dominic (Judgment) created by GABRIEL (?). Gabriel would have originally created Judgment to promote Fire's punishment and cleansing aspects. Dominic's codification of the word of God would have also been in line with the prophetic nature of fire. Dominic's need to ensure that the punishment fits the crime can be explained as his equating injustice with cruelty. Given this origin story, Dominic would have perhaps struggled to put his personal feelings aside during Gabriel's heresy trial. You can view the outcome of the trial as evidence either of Dominic's resolve to support his word fairly or as evidence that he overcompensated and was harder on Gabriel than he needed to be. Cases can also be made for Lucifer or Uriel as the creator. Jean (Lightning) created by ELI (?). Lightning is both a primal force and an instrument of creation. In his youth, Jean would have been able to sow his Creationer wild oats with his primal force aspect, but now the mature Elohite embraces his role as the regulator of technology to ensure that creation benefits humanity. That Jean doesn't seem to think highly of humanity can be explained as his love of Creation over those who actually do the creating. A case can also be made for Gabriel as the creator. Kobal (Laughter / Dark Humor) created by ELI (?). Laughter creates all kinds of good things, and creating good things is Eli's mission. The merry prankster is also known to be creative in his methods. This story seems like a good fit. I don't have my copy of S2 yet (it's in the mail) so I don't know if there is a canon origin story. Malphas (? / Factions) created by DAVID (C). If Malphas had a pre-fall word, it was probably something like community or unity. Either that or it was something to do with the movement of earth, friction, or pressure. In either case, I seem to recall that Malphas was a former servitor of David doing his best to undo his dad's work. Raphael (Knowledge) created by YVES (MH). He who named God would have certainly had a part in the creation of Knowledge. Knowledge promotes informed choices and can help people achieve their Destiny. Also I seem to recall that Yves took over Raphael's responsibilities when she died. As her father, it seems only right for him to continue her legacy. 3. The third batch ================== Belial (? / Fire) created by GABRIEL (C). Yet another good parent and bad child situation. Belial strives to be the only holder of the word of Fire, but I wonder if he really has it in him to kill his Father (now Mother). I see him using cruelty to slowly drive Gabriel mad hoping that she will destroy herself. Then he would be 2 for 0 on archangel deaths. Novalis (Flowers) created by LUCIFER (MH). Light promotes growth and comforts humans. Lucifer created Novalis to spread his word to the Earth, and depending upon how cynical you are, to promote either peace or weakness in Heaven. Like her father, Novalis is intense in her beliefs, so much so that she refused to follow her father when he changed missions. This origin also helps explain why Novalis' election to archangel status was so contentious. Andrealphus (Love / Lust) created by KOBAL (?). I can see Laughter and Love going hand and hand. In fact, Laughter without Love is pretty much a good definition of what Dark Humor is today. I can also see why Lust and Derision (through degradation) would continue to go hand in hand. I'm waiting for my copy of S2 to arrive to see what canon view exists on the origins of Love/Lust. Janus (Wind) created by RAPHAEL (?). The Wind can diffuse knowledge where it needs to be and it can be the voice that sparks a necessary change. In this capacity the Wind might have been the precursor to Revelation. In this scenario, Janus would have had two angels he cared for taken away from him - Oannes and Raphael. Maybe the key to Janus' personality is discovering that he doesn't see what he does as stealing but rather as taking things back. I'm sure he takes back from Belial whenever he gets the chance. Jordi (Animals) created by YVES (MH). All life has a Destiny, and someone would need to shepherd the lives of the animals from Earth to Heaven. Yves is also the only one I can think of that is ineffable enough to relate to Jordi. This origin would also explain why Jordi would not have completed his plan to destroy humanity - he would have known that it would lead to his Fate or at least away from Destiny. Oannes (Waters) created by DAVID (MH). Water shapes rock and shelters life. It is an element that is strongest when united and also unites the humans who travel upon it or seek its sustenance. Oannes would have had her father's patience and strength. After her death, David would have likely honored her by refusing to replace her until there was a need. Short of a second Demon Prince of Oceans, however, David is not likely to replace her. Saminga (? / Death) created by MALPHAS (?). Who understands a Kyriotate better than another Kyriotate? Pre-Fall I really have no good reason for Malphas to have created Saminga, but post-Fall it is a very Malphas thing to do to create something that will only cause chaos and division. Marc (Trade) created by RAPHAEL (C?) or MICHAEL (?). I can't recall where I think I saw a canon reference to Marc as a servitor of Raphael, but I know that the trade of information would have supported Raphael's word quite well. It might also explain Marc's penchant for going after unattainable women (Lilith) - he never got over his mother's death, and seeks to fill the void. Michael can also be a likely creator as War understands supply lines and that there is more than one way to win a war. And of course, if you ask any business man they will tell you that business is war. To be continued... - - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - There is life, there is death And the difference between either one is one single breath ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 17:27:53 -0800 From: Kish Subject: Re: IN> Who made who? Part 1 Vaughn Romero wrote: > > Howdy fellow purveyors of canon and heresy, > > I've been mulling over the origins of the various archangels and demon > princes/princesses for my own little heresy and have some gaps that perhaps > y'all can help me fill in. I'm looking for information on a couple of > things: What words AAs held before the Fall, any canon statements about AA > or DP origins, and opinions about my observations. > > The second batch > ================ > Asmodeus (? / The Game) created by DOMINIC (C?) or URIEL (?). Not Dominic. Dominic wasn't a Superior when Asmodeus was created. > Malphas (? / Factions) created by DAVID (C). If Malphas had a pre-fall word, > it was probably something like community or unity. Either that or it was > something to do with the movement of earth, friction, or pressure. In either > case, I seem to recall that Malphas was a former servitor of David doing his > best to undo his dad's work. He was an Archangel, though Word is unknown, and I'm pretty sure creator is, too. Magog was a former Servitor of David. > Saminga (? / Death) created by MALPHAS (?). Who understands a Kyriotate > better than another Kyriotate? Pre-Fall I really have no good reason for > Malphas to have created Saminga, but post-Fall it is a very Malphas thing to > do to create something that will only cause chaos and division. Saminga was a Wordless angel, and Malphas hates him now, in any event. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 11:01:49 -0500 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: Re: IN> Deluge Background - -----Original Message----- From: in_nomine-digest To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Date: Sunday, February 03, 2002 8:11 PM Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2536 >Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 20:09:04 -0500 >From: "Tyler Childers" >Subject: IN> Deluge Background > >Crossposted to the gurps yahoo group > >The Deluge. > >A campaign using the Gurps worldbooks, In Nomine, Cabal, Cthulhupunk and >Deadlands. > >The basics are as follows. >There is the Four Realms, and something Outside them as well. >God, in canon In Nomine, is an ascended ethereal. Actually, it's "Canon Doubt and Uncertainty" whether or not GOD is an Ethereal or not. The Ethereals certainly think so, but they can't prove it, and it's probably just jealous scuttlebutt anyway. (Snips the rest of the Background) Not bad... But not quite how I'd have approached it. My approach would have involved changing the elements of In Nomine quite a bit, however. First off, GOD exists... and is the mysterious Godhead dwelling in Atziluth. The Angels are it's direct servents, dwelling in the Heavens directly surrounding the Godhead. There are four of them, under control of the Four Hosts, each one commanded by the Archangel Lords: Uriel, the Pure Lord of Stone, Gabriel the Kind Lord/Lady of Waters, Raphael, the Wise Lord of Air, and Michael, the Brave lord of Fire. The other Archangels are sub-commanders, each in service to one of the main Lords. My concept of the Archangel Lords and their Hosts is inspired by Gurps Magic's "Magic Affinities" rules, where each Element is tied to a number of Spell Colleges. Hence, my version of Uriel is more like a mix of David and Jean (as taskmaster Engineer) in attitude, since Earth influences the colleges of Earth, Making and Breaking, Enchantment, Body Control and Technology. His focus is on Defense and Support, making the fortifications of Heaven as well as Arming it's troops. Gabriel, who's colleges of influence would be Water, Healing, Animal, Plant and Food, would focus mainly on peaceful activities to heal and preserve Humanity and Nature, being more like Novalis in personality. Raphael, Archangel Lord of Wind, would control the colleges of Air, Communication and Empathy, Mind Control, Knowledge, Protection and Warning, Sound and Gate. With more of Jean and Litheroy's Intellectual attitudes, his focus would be to explore and categorize all of creation, as well as provide Intelligence to Heaven's armies. Michael, Archangel Lord of Fire, would be the commander of Heaven's offensive forces, leading the charge against Demons, Qlippoth, Rogue Eikones, Dangerous Sorcerors and any other threat to the Cosmic Order. With the colleges of Fire, Illusion and Creation, Light and Darkness, Movement and Gate under his command, he would wage the endless war against Heaven's foes. I'd put the various other Archangels under the command of the Big Four, serving as their Lieutenants, with spell colleges mixed and matched; Laurence, Archangel of the Sword, would serve under Michael's Host, while Jordi would serve Gabriel. The Abyss would be Hell, but Lucifer would not rule in Hell. At least not all of it. Hell would be dominated not only by the Qlippoth (surviving ruins of God's previous attempt at Creation), but by other Demons predating the fall of Lucifer (Once one of Michael's chief Lieutenants), like Ahriman and Pasuzu. Lucifer's Demon Princes would rise and fall as time went on, and would rely mainly on manipulation and deceit over direct confrontration with Heaven's forces. The "Ethereals" Would be every critter between Assiah and Atziluth, with whom Heaven's interactions would be complex; some are friendly, others neutral, and some downright Hostile. Not sure if I'd include the Purity Crusade in this version, though. I may do some more work on this later... - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 22:24:56 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Who made who? Part 1 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kish" To: Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 7:27 PM Subject: Re: IN> Who made who? Part 1 > > Malphas (? / Factions) created by DAVID (C). If Malphas had a pre-fall word, > > it was probably something like community or unity. Either that or it was > > something to do with the movement of earth, friction, or pressure. In either > > case, I seem to recall that Malphas was a former servitor of David doing his > > best to undo his dad's work. > > He was an Archangel, though Word is unknown, and I'm pretty sure creator > is, too. Magog was a former Servitor of David. Malphas was a former Servitor of David as well -- he was the Kyriotate Angel of Fractures, IIRC. - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 21:38:41 -0800 From: Vaughn Romero Subject: IN> Who Made Who? part 2 Here's part 2. Enjoy. - --Vaughn NOTES * My heresy assumes that God only directly created Yves and the first seven angels. All other archangels and consequent demon princes/princesses are the creation of some other AA or DP. Except... yeah, her. * Key (C) = Canon. Origin that I am fairly confident is canon. (C?) = Canon? Origin that may be canon but I have doubts about. (MH) = My Heresy. Origin that I concocted for my heresy. These ideas are currently in favor. Feel free to comment on them. (?) = Help. Origin that I concocted but feel iffy about and need your help with. * Format AA/DP Name (Word before fall / Word after fall) created by CREATOR (Note). Comments. THE BIG LIST OF WHO MADE WHO PART 2 5. Servitors gone bad ===================== Beelzebub (? / Corruption) created by SAMINGA (?) or URIEL (?). The GMG says Uriel destroyed Beelzebub, so perhaps it was personnel, but it is also just as likely that Saminga created both Princes of Corruption. Demogorgon (Destruction) created by BELIAL (C?). The GMG says Belial destroyed Demogorgon, and given Demogorgon's word its not unreasonable to assume that Belial created him as well. The world is probably a happier shinier place without him. Gebbeleth (? / Secrets) created by RAPHAEL (MH). I'd say Gebbeleth was part of the original fall. His big secrets were probably that there was going to be a rebellion in Heaven and some books that "wandered" out of Heaven's library. He often partnered with Mariel to make things go away and ensure that things remained secret. Genubath (? / Rapine) created by JANUS (MH). There is a fine line between taking for noble reasons and taking things for selfish reasons. Genubath crossed the line and fell. Magog (Fortitude / Cruelty) created by DAVID (C). The GMG and S1 agree that Magog was a Kyriotate of Stone that went bad trying to strike at Saminga. In (MH) Saminga is a creation of Malphas that in this case lived up to expectations and managed to get an angel to Fall. Mariel (? / Oblivion) created by RAPHAEL (?) or YVES (?). Mariel was so focused on making knowledge go away that it seems reasonable that her creator would be Knowledge or the Namer of Things. For consistency with Gebbeleth, Raphael makes the sense. Mammon (Creation-related / Greed) created by ELI (C). See write-up in S4 for details. In (MH) I'd say that Mammon one was one of the many angels of Creation who cared more about what he created than who he created it for. In this regard he is similar to the (MH) version of Jean. Vephar (Oceans? / Oceans) created by OANNES (C). The GMG says he was a former Servitor of Oannes. 6. Born into the War ==================== Alaemon (? / Secrets) created by LITHEROY (C) or ASMODEUS (C) or KRONOS (C) or MALPHAS (C). See the S4 write-up for details. Pick your favorite conspiracy and run with it. I kind of like the double agent of Michael option. Christopher (? / Children) created DAVID (C). The GMG timeline has a blurb about it. I wonder if Christopher kept the don't strike first rule of his father? Sometimes you have to be proactive to protect the innocent. Grigori, The (Didn't Exist / Varies) created by GOD (C). S1 write-up of David mentions the Grigori were created by GOD. Lilith (None / Freedom) created by GOD. The simple story is God made a human: a perfect human, with perfect free will, which she exercised to leave Eden. Later, this perfect human freed Lucifer and the demons from Hell and through some canon hand waving earned a word. The interesting bit is the earning a word part, but until new Superiors book get written, insert your favorite heresy here. Haagenti (Didn't exist / Starvation? then Gluttony) created by MESERACH (?). Actual details in S2. The IN Core book implies that Meserach got his come uppance. Jesus Christ (Didn't exist / Sacrifice?) created by GOD (?). Technically not an AA but if actually the son of God then for all practical purposes would be on par or greater than one. Add CDaU to taste. Khalid (Faith) created by URIEL (C). See S3 for details. Kronos (Didn't Exist / Fate) created by GOD (MH). In (MH) Everyone has a Destiny and a Fate. Everyone. Think about it. Laurence (Didn't exist / Sword) created by URIEL (C). The details are well documented in S1. Legion (Didn't Exist / Corruption) created by SAMINGA (C). The GMG timeline has a blurb about it. He was just as pleasant as Saminga is now, but more dangerous. Litheroy (? / Revelations) created by YVES (?) or RAPHAEL (?). I don't have a book on Litheroy to back up these claims but either creator would seem reasonable to me. I'd appreciate any references or information people can provide. Makatiel (? / Disease) created by SAMINGA (C?). Saminga seems to make the most sense but I could see a case being made for Malphas or perhaps a foolish Baal. Did all the big nasty demons come from Saminga's slice of Hell? Prolific little bugger if so. Meserach (? / Sloth) created by MALPHAS (MH). Who else would want to be on the same side of Sloth? Besides he was probably the first one cheering when Haagenti devoured him. Valefor (Didn't Exist / Theft) created by Ethereals (MH). My story has Valefor born from the hopes and fears of the Ethereals during the Purity Crusade. In an effort to preserve his existence after the Purity Crusade he decided on a dangerous gamble to become a celestial. He snuck into Heaven (and raised no alarm since he was an Ethereal) and stole Nostradamus' prophecies. He then found Lucifer, had the famous chat, found Genubath's heart (my version has Lucifer tell him where it is), and ate the heart to become a celestial. As an ethereal Valefor would have assumed the identity of his creators. Since he is now living with a stolen soul, Valefor has managed to stabilize his identity but he occasionally still manifests the rage of Rapine. Zadkiel ( ? / Protection) created by DAVID (C?). I don't have the books describing Zadkiel but my memory brought up the name David for some reason. I'd appreciate any references or information people can provide. 7. Johnny Come Lately ===================== Fleurity (Didn't Exist / Drugs) created by HAAGENTI (C). See S4 write-up for details. Fleurity and his father get along as well as back-stabbing nutcases possibly can. Haagenti will probably remain from eating the Habbalite as long as he doesn't over shadow Gluttony. Furfur (Didn't Exist / Hardcore) created by BELIAL (C). The GMG timeline has a blurb and the Night Music adventure has a write-up. Furfur is everything you would come to expect out of a former Servitor of Fire. Nybbas (Didn't Exist / The Media) created by VAPULA (C). See S2 write-up for the VH1 "Before They Were Demon Princes" special. Vapula (Technology) created by KRONOS (C). See S4 write-up for details. As you'd expect from a creation of Kronos, Vapula is nasty, brutish, and probably not short-lived enough. - - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - There is life, there is death And the difference between either one is one single breath ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 21:45:10 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Who Made Who? part 2 - --- Vaughn Romero wrote: > Here's part 2. Enjoy. > Laurence (Didn't exist / Sword) created by URIEL > (C). The details are well > documented in S1. (LEVEL IV NON-CANON ALERT!) Just so you know, it can really hurt people's heads when they find out that Laurence's personal Forces came from Uriel... and Novalis. :) (/LEVEL IV NON-CANON ALERT!) Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 01/01/02(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 20:41:46 -0800 From: Kish Subject: Re: IN> Who Made Who? part 2 Vaughn Romero wrote: > Haagenti (Didn't exist / Starvation? then Gluttony) created by MESERACH (?). Confirmed that he was created as a gremlin by Meserach. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 05:48:30 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> New Attunements (Really, This Time! ;^) ) I like Laurel Crown a lot. There's a Flowers Attunement tht Michael would probably approve of. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "In a world without women, what would men become?" "Scarce, ma'am. Mighty scarce." -- Mark Twain __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 21:09 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) From: jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) Subject: Re: IN> Who made who? Part 1 In article , vaughn_r@pacbell.net (Vaughn Romero) wrote: > Asmodeus (? / The Game) created by DOMINIC (C?) or URIEL (?). Uriel, IMHO, and I reckon Dominic was by Uriel too. That makes it more straightforward for Asmodeous to have been in service to Dominic. > Beleth (Fear / Nightmares) created by MICHAEL (MH). Fear promotes > struggle because one must overcome it to become stronger. Maybe.... > Blandine (Dreams) created by LUCIFER (MH). Like Light, Dreams embody > hope and are made of insubstantial stuff. OK with me! > Dominic (Judgment) created by GABRIEL (?). Nah - Uriel, to have someone to explain how to others how to tell the difference between the pure and the impure. > Jean (Lightning) created by ELI (?). Lightning is both a primal force > and an instrument of creation. Or could have been Oames, or Janus, or anyone really. He didn't acquire a word for a long time after his creation. > Kobal (Laughter / Dark Humor) created by ELI (?). Laughter creates all > kinds of good things, and creating good things is Eli's mission. OK if it doesn't clash. > Raphael (Knowledge) created by YVES (MH). He who named God would have > certainly had a part in the creation of Knowledge. OK. > Belial (? / Fire) created by GABRIEL (C). Yet another good parent and > bad child situation. OK, if you don't feel you're getting too many of that situation. > Novalis (Flowers) created by LUCIFER (MH). Light promotes growth and > comforts humans. Maybe... or could have been Eli, I reckon. > Andrealphus (Love / Lust) created by KOBAL (?). I can see Laughter and > Love going hand and hand. Again, could have been Eli. > Janus (Wind) created by RAPHAEL (?). Or David, or Yves. > Jordi (Animals) created by YVES (MH). All life has a Destiny, and > someone would need to shepherd the lives of the animals from Earth > to Heaven. OK with me. Anyone else noticing this getting like the meta-game of Glorantha? The game of trying to figure it all out? - --- John Dallman jgd@cix.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 16:21:42 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Deluge Background At 8:09 PM -0500 2/3/02, Tyler Childers wrote: >Crossposted to the gurps yahoo group > >The Deluge. > >A campaign using the Gurps worldbooks, In Nomine, Cabal, Cthulhupunk and >Deadlands. > >The basics are as follows. >There is the Four Realms, and something Outside them as well. >God, in canon In Nomine, is an ascended ethereal. Erm, eh, wha? That's not canon. It's canon that the ethereals SAY he's an ascended ethereal, but the celestials say the ethereals are a buncha deluded, jealous little escaped dream fragments. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 16:27:07 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Who made who? Part 1 At 6:22 PM -0800 2/3/02, Vaughn Romero wrote: >The second batch >================ >Asmodeus (? / The Game) created by DOMINIC (C?) or URIEL (?). Dominic is not an Archangel at the time Asmodeus is his right-hand Cherub, so is unlikely to have created him. I believe canon is silent, thus far, upon Asmodeus' origin. I believe he was not Word-bound at the time of his Fall, though. >Jean (Lightning) created by ELI (?). Lightning is both a primal force and an I think it's more implied in the APG that Jean and Raphael are creations of Yves. Not outright stated, but implied. >Belial (? / Fire) created by GABRIEL (C). Yet another good parent and bad (I need to re-read the books, but the baby is in the arms. *sigh* Is Gabriel named as his _creator_ or his _Archangel_? With relievers around who might or might not have been created by any Archangel, it's entirely possible that Eli just "dripped" a lot of relievers who then went off to work for other Archangels. I'm not sure it says Gabriel _made_ Belial.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 16:37:15 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Who Made Who? part 2 At 9:38 PM -0800 2/3/02, Vaughn Romero wrote: >Demogorgon (Destruction) created by BELIAL (C?). The GMG says Belial >destroyed Demogorgon, and given Demogorgon's word its not unreasonable to >assume that Belial created him as well. The world is probably a happier >shinier place without him. I believe it's implied or stated that Demogorgon served Belial, but with demonlings crawling about from nobody knows where, it's quite possible that he just signed on when he was a wee snot. O:> (In some of our stuff, Who Created Who memetics can be very important. I thus get pedantic.) >Legion (Didn't Exist / Corruption) created by SAMINGA (C). The GMG timeline >has a blurb about it. He was just as pleasant as Saminga is now, but more >dangerous. I thought there was a blurb... or was that in Pyramid? To the effect that Legion was Fallen? Augh, I canna get my books! Augh! >Makatiel (? / Disease) created by SAMINGA (C?). I don't recall a canon origin for Disease. > Fleurity and his father get along as well as back-stabbing nutcases >possibly can. I love that line. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 17:35:52 -0500 From: Christopher Pipinou Subject: Re: IN> Who made who? Part 1 On Sun, 03 Feb 2002 18:22:38 -0800 Vaughn Romero writes: > > Dominic (Judgment) created by GABRIEL (?). ... > Cases can also be made for Lucifer or Uriel as the > creator. How about Eli, as a possible creator for Dominic? After all, once you've made something, you need someone to say whether it's a good creation or not... an artist needs critics so as to improve. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 20:47:00 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> New Discord Called out sick today: spent most of it either asleep or staring blearily at the fifteen or so half-finished projects on my desktop. Couldn't finish any of them. I hate that mentally bloated feeling - especially when it's on a feedback loop. So, I just closed my eyes and let whatever was going to bubble up from my s u b conscious bubble up. Sorry about that. :) Moe Odd Man Out (Celestial) This Celestial Discord does not interfere with daily Essence accumulation, but it remains a headache and a half, anyway. It only appears in celestials that have been exposed to some sort of reality-warping episode in the past: thus, Odd Man Out was quite rare before the rise of Vapula. In game terms, the most obvious manifestation of this Discord is how it skews Interventions. At the beginning of every game session, the GM secretly rolls 666: the number rolled is the character's new favorable Intervention roll, and the reverse is the unfavorable Intervention. Thus, if the GM rolls 4,5 and CD2 for an angelic character, then until further notice the player gets a Divine Intervention on 4,5 and CD2 and an Infernal Intervention on 2,1 and CD4. A PC with this Discord must use three dice of different colors/sizes, in order to distinguish between (to use the example above) a roll of 4,5 and a roll of 5,4. The level of Discord determines how many times per game session the PC's Intervention numbers reset. As a general rule, those with Odd Man Out are unaffected by Interventions rolled by others, for good or bad - hence the name. However, they are affected when their current favorable/unfavorable Intervention number comes up, at the GM's discretion. For example, if the above example is used, half (determined randomly) of any 4,5 and CD2 rolls made in the presence of the PC will be a Divine Intervention. Incidentally, the GM is solemnly urged to not use the excuse of a roll of 3,3 CD3 to make the poor PC's life an exercise in insanity... Reaction penalty: -3 per 2 levels. Add another -3 reaction modifier if the PC is currently benefiting from normally unfavorable Interventions. ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 01/01/02(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2537 ********************************