in_nomine-digest Thursday, February 7 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2539 In this digest: Re: IN> Generic Title Re: IN> Fwd: What if the fall didn't happen? Re: IN> Lilith and Asmodeus's love child Re: IN> Generic Title Re: IN> Generic Title Re: IN> Generic Title Re: IN> Generic Title Re: IN> Generic Title Re: IN> Generic Title IN> Lilith and Asmodeus's love child IN> I am troubled Re: IN> Generic Title Re: IN> I am troubled Fwd: Re: IN> Who made who? Part 1 IN> Fwd: Looking for PBEM players Fwd: Re: IN> Generic Title IN> Fwd: The Day the Earth Stood Still Re: IN> Fwd: The Day the Earth Stood Still Re: Fwd: Re: IN> Generic Title Re: IN> Generic Title Re: IN> Who Made Who Purity & Asmodeus (was Re: IN> Who made who? Part 1) IN> Pre-Fall Malphas Re: IN> I am troubled IN> New Iron Rev ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 11:19:10 +0000 From: "cassandra benner" Subject: Re: IN> Generic Title >Comments welcome. I _do_ so like getting in certain >AA's heads: whether I've succeeded is, as always, >subject to debate. >Moe Hmm a femanine jean... We both went a different way with jean in the same day. I'd not even read your email 1st. BUT... Lightening, is seen as inherently male. Check out Thor and the other mythic gods, all very male... Cas *Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be Evil.* In Nomine @ http://www.angelfire.com/goth/psyber/i-n.html In Nomine yahoo @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/inveritas ADnD forum @ http://www.drunkendwarfinn.co.uk ADnD stuff @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ADandD_Stuff _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 05:44:56 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: What if the fall didn't happen? > It means that, as well as unborn children > being scanned by > >ultrasound for deformities, newly-born children are > scanned by Servitors of > >Destiny for Destiny and Fate - and nobody will blame a > parent afraid of the > >Fate of its child for choosing to have the child killed, > reincarnated, and > >hopefully brought back to life with a more clement Fate, > or an easier >Destiny. I can't see this working for two reasons. 1) I don't think that Destiny and Fate change between incarnations, so killing someone and letting them reincarnate wouldn't fix this; 2) Unfallen Humans would likely be more compassionate than those in real life (part of the Fall was choosing selfishness over selflessness), and thus would likely not condone the killing of an unborn child just because (s)he had a really nasty Fate. More likely that parents would be warned so that they could raise the child in a manner that would encourage him/her to achieve Destiny. Cherubim would certainly be assigned to such children as well. > >(Humans outgrew the Garden of Eden eventually, but it > still exists, as a > >sort of tourist attraction. Although the original Tree > of Knowledge is out > >of bounds, and even more so the Tree of Life, replicas > are available and are > >regularly visited by school children.) This is perfect. > >I'm very interested in what happens to the human mind if > humans do not know > >the difference between good and evil For one thing, they wouldn't have what we would recognize as evil impulses. Think of it in terms of very young children; they sometimes do wrong, but they don't understand why it's wrong or even that it is wrong. They certainly don't do wrong things out of malice. > women don't > >have to suffer pain during childbirth. (Can anyone with > more biblical > >knowledge remind me of other consequences of *not* being > thrown out of the >Garden of Eden?) Work wouldn't be as odious; no thorns (which sprang up after the Fall according to Genesis) or the metaphorical equivalents thereof. People would still have to work for a living, but nobody would hate their job. > OTOH, it means that humans are remarkably stunted. I disagree. Without some of the moral baggage that RL Humans carry around, they would be free to advance in areas that we don't even have the conceptual equipment to conceive. Rather than having no truly enlightened types, such enlightenment would probably be more common (though I admit that my own bias is at work here). Don't confuse innocence with ignorance. > (I'm assuming here that > >angels don't know good and evil *either* Why? Angels didn't need to eat of the Tree to know Good and Evil in IN canon. Unless the parallel world has the Fate and Destiny of angels tied more closely to those of Humans than canon does, there's no reason to assume that angels are as innocent as Humans are. > >I think there is no such thing as true love (or for that > matter love at > >all), because love requires you to consider someone else > as at least, if not > >more, important that yourself, which is clearly > nonsensical and unfair. I definitely have to take issue with this one. As a new parent, I often find myself choosing to put the needs of my son over my own. In terms of transmitting my genes to another generation, doing so to insure his survival makes perfect sense. And in the even simpler terms of loving my child, I really don't care whether or not it's fair. My son benefits from my love and care, and I benefit from being able to express that love. Now imagine a world where that sort of altruism is _universal_. No way can I call that stunted. > poverty, if it arose because of your own mistakes, is > >both justified and required; there is no charity for > those that have failed. > >In this world, beggars in the street will not be abused, > but they will be > >required to perform if they want to get paid. True, but see my comments above about work. Chances are, the only poor people in an un-Fallen world would be those who refuse to work. And you're right; for those, there would be no charity. > Ethereals are effectively indistinguishable from stage > >actors in this world. Odysseus performs at one of the > most popular stage > >shows every evening, and *every evening* he manages to > escape Scylla *and* > >Charybdis. If he didn't, people would stop believing in > him, and he'd stop > >getting the Essence (also known as: he would stop > appearing in the major theatres.) I _like_ this. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "In a world without women, what would men become?" "Scarce, ma'am. Mighty scarce." -- Mark Twain __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 05:46:41 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Lilith and Asmodeus's love child - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > Oh, come _on_, Michael. I think /that/ particular > issue pretty much went through the window right from > the start. 0:> Touche. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "In a world without women, what would men become?" "Scarce, ma'am. Mighty scarce." -- Mark Twain __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 05:51:45 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Generic Title I really, really enjoyed this, Moe. I was amazed that you played it so straight -- then I got to the end. Nice work. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "In a world without women, what would men become?" "Scarce, ma'am. Mighty scarce." -- Mark Twain __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 05:55:04 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Generic Title - --- cassandra benner wrote: > Lightening, is seen as inherently male. NOT male; masculine. Big difference. One is biology, the other is outlook. That difference explains why some Celestials have a gender preference. The biology doesn't matter but the attitude does. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "In a world without women, what would men become?" "Scarce, ma'am. Mighty scarce." -- Mark Twain __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 09:43:39 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Generic Title cassandra benner wrote: > Lightening, is seen as inherently male. > Check out Thor and the other mythic gods, all very male... And Fire isn't? (Hestia/Vesta and the like hardly count. They just tend the fire; they aren't the fire themselves.) Look at Agni and Haephestos. But then look at Gabriel. But it hardly matters to Jean what associations humans choose to make in their mythologies, unless it crops up in the course of work somehow. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 21:00:29 +0000 From: "nick sands" Subject: Re: IN> Generic Title >From: Michael Walton NOT male; masculine Aww, dont bog me down with semantics, you know what i meant. >From the top of my head, with out looking at books, i cannot think of one deity that is female that represents lightening. Air and water, i recall a few goddesses for, but not fire and earth. (lightening i include as a fire minor set). In canon it stats why gabby went from masculine through to femanine. Anyways im whittering Cas *Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be Evil.* In Nomine @ http://www.angelfire.com/goth/psyber/i-n.html In Nomine yahoo @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/inveritas ADnD forum @ http://www.drunkendwarfinn.co.uk ADnD stuff @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ADandD_Stuff _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 13:19:02 -0800 (PST) From: Jennifer Shih Subject: Re: IN> Generic Title - --- cassandra benner wrote: > Lightening, is seen as inherently male. > Check out Thor and the other mythic gods, all very > male... Ah, but in these modern times archetypes can change. Example 1: Sailor Jupiter. Lightning and plant powers. Example 2: Storm of the X-Men. Lightning and wind powers. Both examples are female, occasionally so much so as to defy gravity. Jennifer __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 13:33:20 -0800 (PST) From: Jennifer Shih Subject: Re: IN> Generic Title - --- nick sands wrote: > Air and water, i recall a few goddesses for, but not > fire and earth. I am not a scholar of comparative religions, but as I recall (correct me if I am wrong): Brighid, Celtic goddess of fire and the forge and poetry Pele, Hawaiian fire goddess. Sekhmet, Egyptian goddess of heat, fire, and the desert. Oh yeah, and one I forgot for lightning (which isn't always grouped with fire): Oya, goddess of lightning and wind. Jennifer __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 16:48:43 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Lilith and Asmodeus's love child [No way would I allow a non-Superior to do this; the Superior state change alone should be protection against it. If Ahriman were himself a Prince, he might be able to pull it off -- but the first time he tried it on Michael or David would be his last. That sort of violation is exactly the sort of thing that Superiors are willing to soul-kill each other over.] Well the general idea is that such an ability isn't necessarily the ability of your typical Rank n' file demon nor did I actually want to insinuate that that it was actually an ability he ACTUALLY had. In truth it's merely rumored Ahrimane posseses the ability much like that Eli is actually Jesus Christ. As for trying it on Michael and David, he probably never tried it but...Uriel? Perhaps Dominic at various points? [Nowhere in canon does it say that Lilith loves evil.] Counterpoint nowhere does it NOT say that Lilith loves evil. After all she creates the Lilim primarily for the forces of darkness, enslaves them from birth to suit her purposes, she freed all the Demons from Hell to run rampant on the Earth, furthermore she's at least been rumored to kill babies/pregnant women/and snuggle up to anyone she can catch... So maybe she's perhaps best given a bit of a wide birth. I can't help but shake the feeling part of Lilith's defense is because people like the leggy femme fatale idea more than the idea of an Infernal Word that sounds dubiously wicked (much like Nybbas) [She loves _freedom_. While she's basically selfish, she's not on Hell's side so much as she is on her own side. Lilith serves Hell because she feels that it's in her best interests to do so, not because she loves evil.] Asmodeus LOVES the Game, Nybbas LOVES the Media, Belial loves Fires, Vapula loves Technology. No one not even Asmodeus and Baal are really on Hell's side so much as their own side....it's in fact the very point of being a demon, it's not so much you have any loyalty to these people it's just it's the only game in town you haven't been thrown out of. In any case the idea of Asmodeus and Lilith being consorts goes way back to Hebrew myth and the fact they WERE at some point in history made me think that it might be cool to examine what their kid would be like....I'd originally envisioned some far less...malignant but it strikes me a combination of both is probably the purest expression of evil (the only thing Asmodeus and Lilith have in common past mutual attraction to power and physical attraction) in existence. Not to mention also it explains somewhat why Asmodeus hates the Lilim beyond his word, as a Djinn he's still obsessed with her. - -Charlemagne _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 14:38:58 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Burzelic Subject: IN> I am troubled I have begun running a game for a friend of mine. Right now it's only one player. More are expected but don't have the time right now. Anyway, my one player is a Cherub of War. I have run one complete story, which saw the cherub infiltrate and depose whatever demons (a single Shedim of the War) were recruiting Hellsworn from and debasing a fight club. Beyond this, I haven't the faintest idea of what to do. I know this sounds like a generic plead for plot hooks, but I am more looking for advice on how to quickly put together adventures. Or maybe not even quickly, just how to take what's in front of me and bake a tasty cake. Thanks in advance, Jim __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 15:14:20 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Generic Title - --- nick sands wrote: > Aww, dont bog me down with semantics, you know what i > meant. Can't help it, I'm incurably semantic. };> > Air and water, i recall a few goddesses for, but not fire > and earth. I believe that there is a Hindu fire goddess, but I can't recall the name just now. As for earth goddesses, Gaia is a duh. Some authorities might also count Jord (the giantess who is Thor's mother in Norse mythology). Iris is a rainbow goddess from Greek mythology, which gives her associations with both rain and the Sun. Eos is goddes of the dawn, also Greek mythology. I could find more given half an hour, but that's enough to make the point. I agree that fire and the Sun are usually associated with masculine deities, but usually isn't the same as always. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "In a world without women, what would men become?" "Scarce, ma'am. Mighty scarce." -- Mark Twain __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 18:29:47 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> I am troubled At 2:38 PM -0800 2/6/02, Jim Burzelic wrote: >Right now it's only one player. More are expected but >don't have the time right now. Anyway, my one player >is a Cherub of War.[...]I know this >sounds like a generic plead for plot hooks, but I am >more looking for advice on how to quickly put together >adventures. Or maybe not even quickly, just how to >take what's in front of me and bake a tasty cake. Hmmmm.... Well, you can keep it "small scope," where you have your Cherub and the various "human interest plot threads" (which can be purely mortal; if he doesn't want to attract attention he can't handle, even a mere bunch of thugs can be a bit of a nuisance). Or you can go epic, and gradually involve the Cherub in more and more "big" stuff, boosting it into the limelight (and garnering Distinction), maybe even up to minor Word-bound Protector of the City... For plot hooks, I suggest the INC, www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles and Pyramid ($15 a year! ) which has some IN adventures in it. (I'm thinking the Cable-Rats one...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 18:33:58 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Fwd: Re: IN> Who made who? Part 1 >Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 14:46:00 -0600 >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Non-member submission from [David Edelstein ] ( www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/lists.html details the posters-l option... O:> ) >Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 14:44:59 -0600 >From: David Edelstein >Subject: Re: IN> Who made who? Part 1 > >Charles Glasgow wrote: >> >> >From: "Prodigal" >> >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >> >To: >> >Subject: Re: IN> Who made who? Part 1 >> >Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 09:28:55 -0600 >> Wasn't there also something in David's Uriel writeup that hinted that maybe >> the reason Uriel's servitors had 'Cannot Fall' was not because of inherent >> Word-protection, but because carrying more than one note (or in extremis, >> maaaaaaaybe two notes) of dissonance was a capital crime for Servitors of >> Purity? IOW, Uriel was merely fanatically vigilant about purging the ranks >> of his Servitors of even the *slightest* Falling risks? > > >That's a rumor, just as it's a rumor that Malakim in general CAN Fall, >but get eradicated before it can happen (see the main rulebook!). > >My Uriel writeup is currently "proto-canon," meaning it has been >approved by a prior Line Editor and has more or less been used as a >model since then, but has yet to officially appear in any IN >publications. > >http://www.amadan.org/Innomine/Uriel.htm > >-David > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 18:33:02 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Fwd: Looking for PBEM players >Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 09:08:31 -0600 >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Non-member submission from ["Janet Anderson" ] > >From: "Janet Anderson" >Subject: Looking for PBEM players >Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 15:07:21 +0000 > >After some turnover, I now have a stable and committed group of players (I >hope!), but only three of them, and I would like to have one or two more. >If interested in a Bright, High-Contrast, almost entirely canon PBEM game >that runs Tuesday-Thursday between 9:00 pm and 11:30 pm Eastern time, please >contact me at dorigen@hotmail.com. > >Janet Anderson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 18:34:47 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Fwd: Re: IN> Generic Title >Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 14:55:03 -0600 >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Non-member submission from [David Edelstein ] >Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 14:53:56 -0600 >From: David Edelstein >Subject: Re: IN> Generic Title > >Maurice Lane wrote: >> Second, Jean has found that appearing in female form >> has increased the overall efficiency of 'her' female >> Soldiers and Saints by a significant portion, without >> a corresponding drop in efficiency among 'her' male >> Soldiers and Saints. It is in the Archangel of >> Lightning's best interest to encourage the proper >> intellectual development of the human race whenever >> possible: one obvious avenue is to fully eliminate the >> odd human habit of under-educating 50% of their >> available population. Even leaving out the dubious >> morality of such behavior, humanity can hardly afford >> the loss of efficiency. > > >The problem is, this is only true in non-industrial countries, >generally. In modern, technologicially advanced countries (such as the >US, UK, most of Western Europe, etc.), the current generation of women >tends to be better-educated and performs better academically than males, >on average. The number of women in hi-tech is WAY up, and still >climbing. This is somewhat less true in Asia, but my anecdotal evidence >suggests that while women in serious technological jobs there are fewer >in number, they tend to produce more. > >I suppose one might argue that Jean assuming female form to >"inspire/empower women" helped start this trend, but it seems a dubious >claim. As for the majority of the world where women remain second-class >citizens, frankly I doubt Jean concerns himself much with the Third >World. Not that he wouldn't like to see more of the world be educated >and modern, but he works with those segments of humanity that already >have a clue, and lets other Archangels try to bring the rest of the >world up to speed sociologically. > >-David > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 18:36:02 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Fwd: The Day the Earth Stood Still >Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 16:31:28 -0600 >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Non-member submission from ["Jo Hart" ] > >From: "Jo Hart" >Subject: The Day the Earth Stood Still >Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 22:30:17 +0000 > > > >"Hello, Washington?" > >"Hello, London?" > >"Hello, Paris? Notre-Dame, do you read me?" > >"Hello, Masada?" > >The tethers were down. All over the world, phones rang unanswered. > > > >===#=== > >In a dusty hotel room, Alisha watched the Archangel. He had been drinking >hard since dawn, but she was nothing but an automaton and thus unable to >feel concern even when he turned with damp eyes and dashed her pretty face >out with the clawfoot hammer. > >He ran a sweat-soaked palm through his hair (brown, black, yellow, dyed, >curled, does it matter anymore?) and stared out towards the sun. "How was I >to know?" > >===#=== > >Lilith arched her back and screamed soundlessly. The tendons in her throat >stood out like cables, and her throat was already raw. She hung, lacerated, >on a cybernetic crucifix. Needles and wires had been connected into her >limbs and into her vital organs. In some segments, flesh had been peeled >back to give the probes better access. > >But there was worse than this. Worse than even the knives and the needles >was the feeling that something had been taken away. Something that she >couldn't put her finger on, but she knew it was important. > >Meanwhile, a gauge moved, a white-coated figure touched a dial, and she >began to scream again. > > > >===#=== > >"He screwed me over," Eli explained with a shrug. "He screwed the world >over. And now we have to do something about it. We're the only ones on >Earth, so that means it'll just have to be you and I." > >Dominic sighed, and wished privately that he'd laid in some extra >paracetamol. It had been a very trying morning. > >===#=== > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Join the worldí³ largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. >http://www.hotmail.com > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 19:09:59 -0500 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: The Day the Earth Stood Still I believe a general eye-brow raising is in order. Hope there's more though. The bit with Lilith was nicely written. And I guess the question is: Was it Vapula or Jean? Josh ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 20:18:32 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: IN> Generic Title - --- Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 14:55:03 -0600 > >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: > Non-member submission from [David Edelstein > ] > > >Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 14:53:56 -0600 > >From: David Edelstein > >Subject: Re: IN> Generic Title > As for the majority of the world where women > remain second-class > >citizens, frankly I doubt Jean concerns himself > much with the Third > >World. I'd agree that he'd probably PREFER to ignore the Third World as much as possible, but I wouldn't say that he actually can. Vapula doesn't, after all: indeed, the underdeveloped nations must be prime fodder for Technology. All those countries without an industrial infrastructure, and willing to be pragmatic about getting one. So what if a new factory wrecks the local ecosystem. or if that chemical plant is constantly threatening to explode? It's a small price to pay for Progress... IOW, It's unwise to let Vapula have his head: Jean probably spends a lot of time and effort keeping his opposite number from screwing up the world more than he already does. This probably entails a lot of visits to a lot of low-tech areas (so that they don't become NO-tech areas). Might as well engage in a little social engineering, once she's here... But, as always, YMMV. ;) Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 01/01/02(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 20:32:58 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Generic Title - --- Earl Wajenberg wrote: > But it hardly matters to Jean what associations > humans choose > to make in their mythologies, unless it crops up in > the course > of work somehow. Well, it may be more important in campaigns where God is an ethereal: in that case, AA's would be probably able to draw Essence in the same manner as an ethereal god, so they'd have to stay fairly static in their usual forms. Probably. Maybe. I think. Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 01/01/02(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 20:42:05 -0800 From: Vaughn Romero Subject: Re: IN> Who Made Who "Charles Phipps" wrote: >I think this more or less is a perfect genealogy for Heaven/Lilith and makes >the most sense. While I don't necessarily agree with the "perfect" part, I am glad for your insights and comments. This whole exercise reminds me of that story where a group of blind men try to describe an elephant - everyone has a completely different view of the beast, but everyone is certain their view is the correct one. >From my view of the elephant, God doesn't have such a direct hand in creation after He completes the first wave of angels. My bias is born from a desire to glean or confabulate some additional flavor to the game. "What would archangel X be like if she were created by archangel so and so?" I like this approach better than granting God so much efficacy because I can better understand the first batch of archangles than I can the Ineffable Gender-Neutral Supreme Being. I mean, we have 4+ books on the nature and character of the archangels whereas we only have a few pages in the GMG about God. Perhaps this is just my lazy nature speaking - I like re-using other people's good ideas rather than having to start from scratch. We can't all be Moe's, David Ed's, or Archangel Beth's you know! So the moral is... Finish the Superiors series! Oh, and keep those elephant reports coming in. They've been most helpful. - - Vaughn - - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - "Today, a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration; that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively; there is no such thing as death; life is only a dream, and we're the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather." Bill Hicks, Soldier of Fleurity or Soldier of Revelations? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 21:03:06 -0800 From: Vaughn Romero Subject: Purity & Asmodeus (was Re: IN> Who made who? Part 1) Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >A: they can jump. B: they can stop being Servitors (as Khalid and >Laurence both have; they are now attuned to their _own_ Words, and >do not have the former protections of the Word of Purity...). And >C: dissonance tended to get _frowned_ upon, so there were few who >were in danger in the first place... Hmm. It sounds like if want old Azzie to be a former servitor of Purity, I'll need to have some good reasons why he didn't become a little celestial grease spot long before the Fall. There is always hand-waving (It worked for Lilith's word after all!). Well, before I consign Azzie origins to Heretical Doubt and Uncertainty, what about these little ideas? Perhaps: * Pre-Fall Uriel was less stringent about dissonance. Perhaps reassigning a dissonant servitor, say Asmodeus, to a lesser angel, say Dominic, was intended to be a punishment and a sign to clean up one's act. Uriel would have tightened up the rules significantly after the Fall. From that point on I imagine that angels with dissonance soon became Little Celestial Grease Spots. - -or- * When Asmodeus was assigned to Dominic he lost some of the "benefits" of Purity, namely he wasn't watched as closely and Dominic had to learn the 'watch thy servitors closely' lesson the hard way. I love confabulation. I just need the right challenge. Speaking of which, hasn't it been a geological epoch since the last Iron Rev competition? Has that particular horse been beaten to death or would people mind a reunion tour? We could have the "When Hell Freezes Over" competition. - - Vaughn - - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - "Today, a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration. That we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death. Life is only a dream, and we're the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather." Bill Hicks, Soldier of Fleurity or Soldier of Revelations? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 23:42:23 -0800 From: Vaughn Romero Subject: IN> Pre-Fall Malphas "Charles Phipps" wrote: >Actually I was under the impression that Malphas was the first Kyriotate. I like this idea. How's this for an outline of the pre-Fall Malphas? - - Vaughn * * * MALPHAS KYRIOTATE OF STONE Angel of Fission "The World is locked in stone and needs to be broken out." Don't get confused by the modern association of fission with nuclear power. The original meaning of the word - "a splitting or breaking up into parts" (Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary 2002) - has more than just negative connotations. In the early years of Creation, Malphas used fission to split the earth's crust into tectonic plates, to teach plants to break CO2 into breathable oxygen and free carbon, and provided the very first life forms a means of reproduction. The first Kyriotate, Malphas was also the first angel to learn how to split his consciousness and see himself in a multiplicity of forms. For most of Creation, Malphas had no vessels in which to work on the Corporeal plane, and therefore had to learn many songs and attunements in order to carry out God's designs for the world. Mostly, Malphas used his abilities to bring strength to the world by tearing down the old and rebuilding from the parts. Malphas also applied this methodology on himself. When not busy molding the Earth he would continually attempt to find new modes of identity and ways of being by possessing or imitating his fellow angels. Angel of Fission: In addition to the standard Kyriotate resonance, which Malphas created, Malphas learned to channel essence from other angles and use it to split corporeal matter. The upper limit of Malphas' ability would have only been limited by the amount of essence Malphas had been given to channel. You can assume that it took the combined essence of the then Host, or a large portion of them at least, to split the Earth's crust. Acting on his own, Malphas could probably split up to (10, 100, 1000?) pounds of matter per essence spent. This resonance became the Elohite choir attunement when Malphas was elevated to archangel. - -Dissonance- It is dissonant for angels of fission to go more than two days without splitting up some matter on the earth. A missed day can be made up for with two acts of fission on the next day. - -Choir Attunements- Seraph: Seraphs of Fission had the ability to determine what the consequences of splitting any object would be. The CD of resonance roll determined how much information about the consequences the angel could discover. Cherub: The Guardians of fission could attune to object and know how much force it would take to break an object. The CD of the resonance roll would determine how accurate the Cherub's estimate would be. Ofanim: Malphas' Wheels of could use their resonance to find the weakest part of an object and know how best to split it. CD of resonance roll determines how much information about an objects weaknesses the Ofanite learns. Elohim: Literally Powers, these angels could voluntarily act as essence batteries holding an amount of additional essence equal to their resonance roll CD times the angel's celestial forces. Elohim could hold this essence for up to celestial forces hours if completely immobile or up to celestial forces minutes if moving. Malakim: This is a pre-Fall write-up, there are no Malakim of Fission. If you're a creative type, you can invent your own resonance. Kyriotates: The most talented angels of their choir, Kyriotates of Fission could split themselves into more instances than any other angel. Dominations of Fission could divide themselves into total forces + celestial forces parts or hosts. Each extra parts or hosts had an effective power of 1 force. [This is probably too powerful of a game effect, but you get the idea. Feel free to modify this to a more reasonable level.] Mercurians: The Friends of Fission were the first angels to extend the word of Fission to interactions between beings. With a perception roll, the Mercurian could determine what event or actions would break harmonious relationships between two beings. The Friends of Fission were supposed to use their attunement to prevent social interactions from degenerating because of factionalism. Obviously that plan didn't work out. - -Servitor Attunements- Force of Many: A servitor with this attunement could channel essence given from other angels and use it to power resonances or songs. The angel could store additional essence equal to his or her celestial forces. This bonus is cumulative in the case of Elohim. Rift: The angel receive a +1 bonus to the target number on all attempts to split or divide matter. - -Distinctions- Divisionary: Divisionaries receive a +1 bonus to the CD of all attempts to split or divide matter. Master of Erosion: Angels with this distinction will can look at any object and know when it will wear down, break, or fission if left to natural forces. During Creation, Angles of this rank often used this distinction to determine what objects needed their direct attention and what objects could be left to Nature's timeline. - -Notes- Obviously, this write-up assumes that Malphas has transformed from an entity of brute force and direct action (like any good servitor of Stone), to one of subtlety who uses other people to do his nasty work. Why abandon this direct power you may ask? Well, Malphas did want to try all kinds of different view points and ways of being. This view point is as good as any. - - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - While you can bum a sig, it's awfully hard to light one. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 09:31:48 +0100 From: "Donato Ranzato" Subject: Re: IN> I am troubled From: "Jim Burzelic" > I know this sounds like a generic plead for plot hooks, but I am > more looking for advice on how to quickly put together > adventures. Or maybe not even quickly, just how to > take what's in front of me and bake a tasty cake. I read a great tip for plot hooks sent to this list a couple of weeks ago, namely to use one of the more legendary events/items mentioned in the bible to use as a basis for the scenario (e.g. Samsons hair, Veronica's veil, etc.). Apparantly In Nomine Satanis/Magna Veritas gave this tip to come up with some instant plothooks. Or just open your bible at random and take what is written there as the basis of your story or campaign. Donato ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 05:49:32 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: IN> New Iron Rev - --- Vaughn Romero wrote: > hasn't it been a geological epoch since the last Iron Rev > competition? Has > that particular horse been beaten to death or would > people mind a reunion > tour? We could have the "When Hell Freezes Over" > competition. Sounds good to me. Judges? ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "In a world without women, what would men become?" "Scarce, ma'am. Mighty scarce." -- Mark Twain __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2539 ********************************