in_nomine-digest Sunday, February 10 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2541 In this digest: Re: IN> Getting Nowhere Re: IN> Getting Nowhere Re: IN> Getting Nowhere Re: IN> Getting Nowhere IN> Greetings ... and advice sought Re: IN> Greetings ... and advice sought Re: IN> Greetings ... and advice sought Re: IN> Is there an official bit in canon... IN> Superior book Speculatios (Re: Greetings ... and advice sought) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 12:30:43 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Getting Nowhere >Is it possible for a celestial with an intact Heart and a vessel >to deliberately go to Limbo? If so, how? > >Earl Start in the corporeal realm; spend five minutes preparing oneself mentally; then make a Will roll. If successful, the Vessel vanishes (lost) and the celestial is in Limbo. Resolve exit as normal. William ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 16:38:21 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Getting Nowhere At 12:30 PM -0500 2/8/02, William J. Keith wrote: >>Is it possible for a celestial with an intact Heart and a vessel >>to deliberately go to Limbo? If so, how? >> >>Earl > >Start in the corporeal realm; spend five minutes preparing oneself >mentally; then make a Will roll. If successful, the Vessel vanishes (lost) >and the celestial is in Limbo. Resolve exit as normal. What he said. This is in GIN (probably locatable via the index, tell me if it's not), or Heaven & Hell. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 16:39:12 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Getting Nowhere Okay, so to get into Limbo, you have to burn a vessel. And, as I recall, you can create your own new vessel in Limbo, by accumulating enough Essence over enough time. If you stayed in long enough, could you make more than one vessel? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 16:52:03 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Getting Nowhere At 4:39 PM -0500 2/8/02, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Okay, so to get into Limbo, you have to burn a vessel. >And, as I recall, you can create your own new vessel in Limbo, >by accumulating enough Essence over enough time. If you stayed >in long enough, could you make more than one vessel? Nope. You can only create a vessel in the process of getting _out_ of Limbo. Then you go Poof, out in your new vessel, right where you left... Or close, depending on what's parked there at the moment. O:> If you have extra Essence left over from creating the vessel, you get to keep it (up to normal maximums, of course). That's celestials, anyway. Ethereals might be weird -- they have their Essence cache... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 18:59:15 -0500 (EST) From: Paul Watson Subject: IN> Greetings ... and advice sought Hello, I've been lurking on the list for a couple days now, and figured I'd poke my head up and introduce myself. I've played some 30-40 different RPGs over about the last 20 years. I found out about In Nomine when I went to www.sjgames.com to see what's new in GURPS (yeah, its been awhile since I did much with GURPS). I've perused several fan sites, read a bunch of articles from Pyramid, and pretty much every review I can find. I must say, I'm very impressed with what I've read. So, I'm preparing to take a chunk of my annual bonus and drop it on a few In Nomine books. I'd probably be better off just buying the main rule book and going from there, but if I order more than $50 worth from Cyberdungeon, shipping and handling is free (I've had no luck finding it in the local stores). Basically, what I'm looking for is some feedback on which books to get in addition to the main rule book. It seems to me that this might be one of those recurring list topics, so feel free to send the replies to me in private email. The GM Guide seems like a natural choice, and I'm also thinking of picking up the Corporeal Players Guide. I'm planning on having the players start out with human characters who have no idea what's really happening in the world (in fact, I'm not even planning on telling the players they're playing In Nomine; I'll just ask them to create some regular people and go from there ;). But is the CPG really needed, or will I find much of what I need in the main rules? After the initial phase in the campaign, I'm planning on having the players create new angelic characters, so the Angelic Players Guide seems like a good choice. But should I also pick up the Infernal PG, to flesh out the protagonists? Are there any of the other books, like the Liber series, or the Superiors, which would be essential? The mail order place I'll be doing business with lists the GM Pack as in stock, while SJ Games lists is as out of print. If I'm going to pick it up, now's the time. A screen is a screen, and I tend not to use them, but I'm wondering if the 32 page booklet is worth getting. I've read that the sorcery system described in the Corporeal Players Guide is a greatly revised version of the system from The Marches. Is this part of a trend, newer books supplanting the information in older? Is there any talk about creating a second edition of any of the books in the foreseeable future? Thanks, Paul ______________________________________________________________________ Web-hosting solutions for home and business! http://website.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 20:08:24 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Greetings ... and advice sought At 6:59 PM -0500 2/8/02, Paul Watson wrote: >Basically, what I'm looking for is some feedback on which books to get in >addition to the main rule book. It seems to me that this might be one of those >recurring list topics, so feel free to send the replies to me in private email. (I don't mind seeing them here. O:> ) >The GM Guide seems like a natural choice, [...] >the Corporeal Players Guide. >I'm planning on having the players start out with >human characters [...] is the CPG really needed, It is really needed. You _could_ go with the main rules, but you'd have to do a _lot_ of fudging. The system is really not set up for non-celestial power levels, and the CPG helps you work with that a _lot_. (The other option is to do it with GURPS IN.) >the Angelic Players Guide seems like a good choice. The APG is half good, and half, er, well.... I wasn't the LE and there is stuff in there which is up against the wall. The art is also particularly sub-par, inside. (Ignore the Check Digit tables in the APG. They will probably die someday.) On the other hand, the only way I get to revise the thing is if it sells out. O:p >But should I also pick up the Infernal PG, to flesh out the >protagonists? The IPG is a lot better -- but it's up to you if you think you need it. It does include rules for redemption, which might be useful if your PCs want to go around being soppy at demons. O;> > Are there any of the other books, like the Liber series, or the >Superiors, which would be essential? Hmmmm... Essential, no. Very useful? Probably. A rundown follows at the end. O:> >The mail order place I'll be doing business with lists the GM Pack as in stock, >while SJ Games lists is as out of print. The GM Pack has one of the best packaged adventures in it (though do check the errata pages online), and 2 Superiors, Litheroy and Alaemon. I'd advise getting it. You can ebay it if you don't like it. O:> >I've read that the sorcery system described in the Corporeal Players Guide is a >greatly revised version of the system from The Marches. Is this part of a >trend, newer books supplanting the information in older? Yes. >Is there any talk about creating a second edition of any of the books Ohyeah... >in the foreseeable future? Not really -- I don't know when things are going to be sold out, etc. O:< A Listing Of Books (You can also search for these things on rpg.net -- there are a fair number of reviews around.) A note: the Superiors books contain... 1) the 2 pages that were in the main book, per Superior (to avoid having to book-swap), 2) the 10 pages that formed the initial expansion (if any), and then 3) an additional chunk of pages so that the total is about 30, detailing how the Servitors' lives tend to function. They also have about 10 pages of adventure seeds, with 1-4 seeds being directed _directly_ at Servitors of each featured Superior. Superiors 1 is Michael, Laurence, David, and Dominic. It's the first of the series, and there are one or two rough spots in it, but it's pretty good, I think. O:> Superiors 2 is Kobal, Andrealphus, Haagenti, and Nybbas. Only Kobal has had any initial expansion, of that lot. Superiors 3 is Gabriel, Blandine, Yves, and Khalid (Archangel of Faith, appeared in Rev 5, Final Trumpet.) Khalid, despite being a Minor Superior, gets a full 30-odd page writeup because as written for FT, he was... a fairly direct 'port from the much-more-satirical French In Nomine Satanis/ Magna Veritas game. Superiors 4 is Vapula, Valefor, Alaemon, Fleurity, and Mammon. The last three there have about 12-15 pages each, being Minor Superiors. (Alaemon contains "spoilers" for Feast of Blades, the GM pack adventure.) The Libers are... Liber Canticorum: Gobs More Songs; the ones from the main book are included so that there will be less book-swapping. Also rules to learn and devise new Songs. Liber Reliquarium: Gobs More Relics, inc. the ones from the main book, for the reasons given above. Relic creation is also covered. Liber Castellorum: the book of Tethers. This has a lot about creating and using Tethers, and a section of example "Tether Seeds." A Major Tether, an Unusual Tether, and a Generic (drop anywhere) Tether for each major Superior. Also adventure seeds revolving around Tethers. First book I edited, and I am quite fond of it. My spouse remarked that it, and in particular the Unusual Tethers, fleshed out the interpretation of Words interestingly. Liber Servitorum: the book of characters, with a short section on Roles, a longer one on Servants, and a 2-page appendix with suggestions for Needs, Dis/Honorable Deeds, fates, and destinies, for the brain-frozen GM to grab when needed. Sorry, you're on your own with Mercurians... O:> The characters listed can be NPCs or PCs -- the ones which are PC-balanced are marked with a cross (upside down for demons). There are angels, demons, ethereals, and humans (inc. non-mundane ones and undead). I don't call this one VITAL, but it can be very very useful. You Are Here: Around the World in 666 Days Not technically a "Liber" (Liber Mundi?), this is a book full of adventure seed settings. Or setting adventure seeds, or something. No stats, but a bunch of places you can use for flavor, or to be the focus of a plot. I've heard one person rave about it that many of the places can be 'ported to other game systems easily. O:> In Nomine Anime: great fun, anime style. A 32-page book, comic-book size pages, lots and lots of text and few illustrations. If you hate anime, though, skip it. Then there's the Rev Cycle. Note that when the Revelation Cycle was conceived of, and during most of its implementation, I was not the Line Editor. O:> I will, of course, be delighted when any or all of these sell out. Rev 1: Night Music Most notable for In Nomine Austin, where a Truce reigns. (I suppose to explain why no one's blown up this little gaming company... O;> ) This is not a typical city, so it might be a bit misleading to have it as the first book, but ah, well. It includes the initial expansions of Laurence (fully expanded in Superiors 1) and Saminga, as well as introducing Fleurity (Sup4) and Christopher, AA of Children. There are a bunch of NPCs, too, and an adventure wherein a demon may become a Prince... There's stuff about Soldiers, Saints, drugs, diseases, and undead in it, but aside from the undead characters, this is revised and much nicer-looking in the CPG. Rev 2: The Marches A description of the Marches, including the initial expansions of Blandine (S3), Beleth, Gabriel (S3), and Belial. Included are the minor Choir of Menunim (S3) and Pachadim. There's also a chunk about ethereals, and the surviving pantheons from the Purity Crusade. And sorcerers, which is vastly fixed in the CPG. Oh, and there's an adventure/setting thing, which, er, I don't find to be that author's best work. O:> Rev 3: Heaven & Hell Expansions for Dominic (S1), Asmodeus, Yves (S3) and Kronos. Large chunks of stuff about Heaven, Hell, and Limbo. Much errata for the NPC characters, but probably the very most useful of the Rev Cycle, still. O:> The adventure is based a bit closely on a real life setting, but seems to be fairly self- contained and playable. Minor Superiors of Zadkiel (AA of Protection) and Mammon (S4). Rev 4: Fall of the Malakim Expansions for David (S1) and Lilith. Details on Geas mechanics. Bright Lilim given Choir Attunements and celestial form description. In Nomine Los Angeles. The archives (best searched via google.com, maybe) include a lot of the, er, holes in the setting. NPCs galore. 2 adventures -- a side-plot one, and a major one. I suggest, if you run it, dropping the PCs into the setting around the time as the NPC Seraph, and making them accompany him when it's required that they get out of town for plot purposes... There is a bit of a cliffhanger on the main plot here. Rev 5: Final Trumpet The art in this is the best, I'd say, of the whol Rev Cycle. O:> It has expansions for Michael (S1), Baal, Kobal (S2), and Malphas. Minor Superiors of Khalid (S3) and Magog, Prince of Cruelty. A big huge mega-adventure involving the possible advent of Armegeddon. Some people have complained that PCs are not given enough to do in this. O:/ Others like it. It's a bit of a YMMV and may come across as a rail-road job. But the book is really beautifully illustrated! O:> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 19:40:25 -0800 (PST) From: Jennifer Shih Subject: Re: IN> Greetings ... and advice sought - --- Elizabeth McCoy wrote: [much snippage throughout] > Superiors 1 is Michael, Laurence, David, and > Dominic. > Superiors 2 is Kobal, Andrealphus, Haagenti, and > Nybbas. > Superiors 3 is Gabriel, Blandine, Yves, and Khalid > Superiors 4 is Vapula, Valefor, Alaemon, Fleurity, > and Mammon. Heaven, Hell, Heaven, Hell. I see a pattern here. I also notice which Superiors are left. Based on these flimsy observations, I will now predict the subtitles of the next two Superiors books: Superiors 5: Things that start with the letter "J" Superiors 6: Things that start with the letter "B" How close am I? "J"ennifer (Hey, can I be in Superiors 5?) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 20:16:35 -0500 From: damienw@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> Is there an official bit in canon... On Sat, 26 Jan 2002 14:38:54 -0500 "William J. Keith" writes: > Nope, atheists can go to Heaven as long as they fulfill their > Destiny and > not their Fate, and so on, just like all other humans. Yves > proposed the > whole monotheism thing starting with the Jews a few thousand years > ago, but > it's not mandatory. Some angels, especially the really devout ones, > tend > to twitch about that, but canon allows atheists in. For a non-official but surprisingly non-heretical example, just look at Moe Lane's "Marxists in Heaven" post from a bit back. - --- damienw[et]juno.com "To kill a man between panels is to condemn him to a thousand deaths." - Scott McCloud ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 18:41:52 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Superior book Speculatios (Re: Greetings ... and advice sought) At 7:40 PM -0800 2/8/02, Jennifer Shih wrote: >--- Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >[much snippage throughout] >> Superiors 1 is Michael, Laurence, David, and >> Dominic. >> Superiors 2 is Kobal, Andrealphus, Haagenti, and >> Nybbas. >> Superiors 3 is Gabriel, Blandine, Yves, and Khalid >> Superiors 4 is Vapula, Valefor, Alaemon, Fleurity, >> and Mammon. > >Heaven, Hell, Heaven, Hell. I see a pattern here. I >also notice which Superiors are left. Based on these >flimsy observations, I will now predict the subtitles >of the next two Superiors books: > >Superiors 5: Things that start with the letter "J" *snicker* Superiors 5 is going to be either: Pillars and Wildcards (working title): Janus, Jean, Marc, Litheroy, Zadkiel. or Peace and Nature (working title): Eli, Novalis, Jordi, Christopher. >Superiors 6: Things that start with the letter "B" It's likely to be The Manipulators (working title): Beleth, Kronos, Lilith, Malphas. Or, depending, War and Violence (working title): Baal, Belial, Asmodeus, Saminga. Maaaaaaaaaaybe Magog squished in there. >How close am I? > >"J"ennifer (Hey, can I be in Superiors 5?) Remind me, and I'll see about suggesting someone in S5 have a Role or actual name of Jennifer... O;> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2541 ********************************