in_nomine-digest Sunday, April 14 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2600 In this digest: RE: IN> Weird thoughts RE: IN> Weird thoughts IN> Re: In Nomine Medieval? Re: IN> Weird thoughts Re: IN> In Nomine-Medieval Re: IN> Weird thoughts IN> Quick question about cherubs RE: IN> Weird thoughts Re: IN> Quick question about cherubim Re: IN> Weird thoughts IN> Recovered Remnants Re: IN> Quick question about cherubim RE: IN> The Humanists (was Re: Weird thoughts) RE: IN> Weird thoughts Re: IN> The Humanists RE: IN> Weird thoughts Re: IN> In Nomine-Medieval? IN> New Servitor of Asmodeus Re: IN> Weird thoughts Re: IN> Weird thoughts Re: IN> In Nomine-Medieval? Re: IN> Quick question about cherubim Re: IN> Weird thoughts Re: IN> In Nomine-Medieval? IN> Historical Re: IN> Historical IN> Break Moe's Brain Contest Winners ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 10:08:19 -0500 From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" Subject: RE: IN> Weird thoughts - -----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth McCoy [mailto:emccoy@nh.ultranet.com] - ->Less than Celestial, more than Human. > More -- and less. A mortal human will still survive the death of the > body. A remnant will not. (Further, most humans have at least a > LITTLE Will and Perception, which most Remnants don't.) From a Celestial point of view, there is no "body death" because it's just a vessel. It's like your car. And no Celestial ever "survives" Soul death. You take away all the Forces of a Celestial and it's just gone. Does it go to the Higher Heavens? Lower Hells? No one knows. So either Remnant or full on Archangel, if you lose all your Forces you're gone. Humans, when their physical form dies, become celestial beings. But if you strip away all their remaining Forces, they are just as "gone" as a Remnant. I would think, from a Celestial's POV, a Remnant has a chance of someday healing. Someday recovering. It may be the same chance as a ten year coma victim has of spontaneously reviving, but it's a chance. A human, no matter what, is still just another bald monkey in the demon mindset. A tool, a toy, an obstacle or what ever, but I just don't see any demon wanting to be one. Not after seeing how they get treated in Hell. - ->More importantly to the topic at hand, voluntarily stripping off Forces for - ->the purpose of becoming Human sounds painful and damaging to me. I don't - ->see any demon, no matter how much they want God's "approval" being able to - ->reduce themselves in power. > Demons are insane -- some of them even want to change Words to better ones, > if they don't like being the Demon of Small Things That Squish Underfoot! > Admittedly, losing a Word is like ripping your arm off slowly without > painkillers, but... Letting yourself be stripped of one word to take on a greater word is hardly a reduction in power. It might be painful, but there is a significant and immediate gain. Payment is something that demons could understand. Sacrifice is not. - ->Selflessness is required to humble yourself. What you are proposing - ->requires the Habbalah Habbalite. The Singular is Habbalite. I could revoke your rite by claiming I was speaking about the entire Choir but you snipped out the rest of the sentence and I don't have my last post available any longer I can't recall how I was using it. - ->trust that even in a reduced or weakened state that - ->God will protect him. > Or you could come at it from the other side -- a Habbalite crazy enough > to believe that this is a _macho_ thing to do. "Whazza matter, tattoo-boy? > Too scared?" This I like. Habbalah who do it to prove how tough they are. Kind'a like the way tuff-guy gangsters in old movies would burn themselves to prove how loyal they were. Ritualistic scarification of the soul probably costs a Force or two if it's done correctly. > Not _ALL_ Habbalah are going to have this brand of lunacy, but while > Habbalah all claim to be angels (and presumably the vast majority will > not let themselves believe anything else, especially not out loud where > the others might hear), they're hardly united on exactly what they're > doing in Hell or how they should do it. A small, REAL crazy splinter > "sect," formed around a charismatic Habbalite could easily form. No contest. I think it makes a great curve to throw at a campaign. My debate began when it was suggested that this would be a widespread phenomenon. > Now, if the charismatic leader can maintain this for _long_ enough... > Who knows when this started? Who knows how many might be on Earth, even > now? *cue evil laughtrack* Charismatic Habbalah Cults on the loose. I could see Kobal having a good time with this idea. And while I had never thought of them being much of a "togetherness" group in Hell, I can see them bunching up in groups who's insanities supported one another. The ultimate in codependency issues. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 10:40:45 -0400 From: "Brian C. Petery" Subject: RE: IN> Weird thoughts >More importantly to the topic at hand, voluntarily stripping off Forces for >the purpose of becoming Human sounds painful and damaging to me. Revalations IV, p. 21, under "The Secret Ingredient" it states that Lilith incorporates Forces into her being, and when they have absorbed enough of her nature she uses them to create Lilim. Also, in the opening viginette of Revalations III the Shedite Carpus has its Forces stripped and bound to the offspring it created with the assistance of an angel. >"You, Caprus, will have your Forces stripped and then addad to those of your >offspring. The product will be Bound into a corporeal body." It has also been stated (can't find the reference) that humans cannot become demons. Instead their Etherial Forces are srtipped and added to a demon with out "processing." It's not impossible to do what has been suggested, but I've only ever heard of Demon Princes doing it. Yours in Virtuality, BC Petery http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 10:57:00 -0400 From: "Jeremy Smith" Subject: IN> Re: In Nomine Medieval? > > Cities are becoming more and > > more prominent as disease ridden sources of freedom > > Not necessarily. One needn't have been a serf in the >fields to have one's freedom curtailed; indenture, arranged >marriages and governmental oppression all survived in the >fledgling cities (the latter even increased). The rise of >the middle class -- and the forces that drove it -- >suggests that Marc and Mammon were the major players here. >And the adjective "disease-ridden" suggests that Makatiel >(if he was still around in that time period -- no books >with me again) was another power behind urbanization. > Yes, but the point is that your freedoms were generally much less curtailed in the city than the countryside-better to be an oppressed taxpayer than an oppressed serf. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 11:14:52 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Weird thoughts From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" > > I would think, from a Celestial's POV, a Remnant has a chance of someday > healing. There aren't any canonical examples of a remnant ever recovering that I know of. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 12:16:56 -0400 From: "Brian C. Petery" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine-Medieval >I decided to set the campaign in 1234 Europe. >Gunpowder exists in China, >but firearms are not in use yet. Actually gunpowder was in use since the tenth century, but only rarely. It was used to send sabotted arrows (I'm serious) through knightly armor, undercut fortress walls in conjunction with mining, and as a projectile in catapults. It wasn't until cannons came into popular use after the fall of Constantinople that it became popular. It was also *very* hard to make reliable guns before the Renaissance. Remember, there is a Demon of Gunpowder (can't find his reference), and the servitors of Jean will need to thwart him. Come to think of it, you could build an entire campaign about Jean vs Vapula, with the angels as "Men in Black" trying to suppress "forbidden technology." (Can you say FNORD?) =;> Or has the Archangel of Lightning been assigned technology yet? Maybe the actions of his Servitors will gain him this consideration. How about a campaign set before (or without) Uriel's rampage? Not to rah-rah for the other guys, but the Ars Magica game has lots of medieval boogams for Angels and Demons to run into. Yours in Fear and Loathing, BC Petery http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 11:25:48 -0500 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Weird thoughts - ---- Original Message ----- From: "Prodigal" To: Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 11:14 AM Subject: Re: IN> Weird thoughts > There aren't any canonical examples of a remnant ever recovering that I know > of. Which sparks a random thought in my mind as to what the fallout would be if one ever *did* recover. (Divine Intervention, natch) How would the rest of Heaven react? How would Hell react? Which Archangels and Demon Princes would jump which way? The last time an "impossible" celestial event (a Malakite falling) was thought to be happening, the celestial realms went collectively insane. So what kind of mass hysteria would show up at this latest miracle? If the fuel needs more fire *slaps self in head as pun-ishment*, Gabriel can be heard muttering something appropriately cryptic and panic-provoking about the event. Whether she does it the day after the no-longer-Remnant returns or the day before is your choice. And for *real* player punishment... [Insert Archangel Here] -- "We have a documented, confirmed account of a Remnant being restored to health. They just reported back in to their Superior after several decades' worth of absence. *waves down startled objections* Yes, we are *certain*. We have the original loss of Forces confirmed, we have a sighting of this Remnant having been met since then and he was clearly remnant, and we are positive that that is the same celestial who just showed back up, Celestial Forces back in place. We even tracked down and debriefed the person that this no-longer-Remnant had originally lost their Celestial Forces combatting *with*." *players ask questions* "Your mission? To bring this no-longer-Remnant in for debriefing and examination." *players ask what's the catch* "Did I ever say that this ex-Remnant was an *angel*?" - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 19:41:12 +0200 (CEST) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Unni_Sol=E5s?= Subject: IN> Quick question about cherubs Sorry, I just don't have the patience to read though the whoe digest;) Feel free to email me the answer(s) privately in case this is a oh-no-not-again-boooooooring topic..:) Will a cherub become dissonant if his angelic Attuned One gets his vessel killed? And no, this cherub is _not_ attuned to the vessel, thankyouverymuch! :) - -- Stercus, stercus, stercus, moriturus sum! Unni Sol峼/div> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 16:39:36 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: RE: IN> Weird thoughts At 10:08 AM -0500 4/13/02, Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW) wrote: >> Demons are insane -- some of them even want to change Words to better >ones, >> if they don't like being the Demon of Small Things That Squish Underfoot! >> Admittedly, losing a Word is like ripping your arm off slowly without >> painkillers, but... > > Letting yourself be stripped of one word to take on a greater word is >hardly a reduction in power. That doesn't make it less traumatic. A Word is _part_ of a being. It's really more than an arm -- it's a heart. If you think that allowing someone to remove your heart, without anesthetics, just so a new one can be plugged is something that even demons consider without qualms... >It might be painful, but there is a >significant and immediate gain. Payment is something that demons could >understand. Sacrifice is not. Well, as EDG notes, the "payment" is that they pretend to be human, and God loves humans, so God loves _them_ (again). It's not a selfless act. >->Selflessness is required to humble yourself. What you are proposing >->requires the Habbalah > > Habbalite. The Singular is Habbalite. > >I could revoke your rite by claiming I was speaking about the entire Choir >but you snipped out the rest of the sentence and I don't have my last post >available any longer I can't recall how I was using it. You were using it singularly. That's why I couldn't stand it anymore. O:> I didn't snip the rest, just interspersed -- it's down there. | V >->trust that even in a reduced or weakened state that >->God will protect him. Thus, "the habbalah" was being equated to "him." It's plural. O:> >No contest. I think it makes a great curve to throw at a campaign. My >debate began when it was suggested that this would be a widespread >phenomenon. Widespread is relative, anyway. If there are a few loons who've spread all over Hell, it can be wide-spread, because you can only crush a cell at a time, and all the other cells... Heresy! Heresy! - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 16:49:11 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Quick question about cherubim At 7:41 PM +0200 4/13/02, Unni Sol峠wrote: >Sorry, I just don't have the patience to read though the whoe digest;) >Feel free to email me the answer(s) privately in case this is a >oh-no-not-again-boooooooring topic..:) > >Will a cherub become dissonant if his angelic Attuned One gets his vessel >killed? Yes. The only _possible_ exception to this _MIGHT_ be if the Attuned One is a Malakite; they don't suffer Trauma. However, they do suffer all the pain associated with death-wounds, and losing a vessel _is_ a bit of a nuisance. If the angelic Attuned is not in the vessel at the time (such as a Body Bag or Song of Possession), the GM is encourage to be merciful _IF_ the Cherub treats this as at least somewhat disturbing. It may not be dissonant from one standpoint, but it could be seen as a 'failure to keep the promise (to protect)' from another. (Cherubim get dissonant for betrayal, too, remember.) A Cherub PC who treats it with appropriate distress is more likely to get off than one who shrugs. (Shrugging is Djinny. Dissonance is the in-game mechanism by which roleplaying is encouraged/enforced/mandated . ) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 16:43:59 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Weird thoughts At 11:14 AM -0500 4/13/02, Prodigal wrote: >From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" >> >> I would think, from a Celestial's POV, a Remnant has a chance of someday >> healing. > >There aren't any canonical examples of a remnant ever recovering that I know >of. More to the point, I think I've stated that while it is theoretically possible that an Intervention might produce that (IF THE GM WILLS IT; an Intervention could produce other results, as well!), it's hardly guarenteed. You can treat a Remnant like a 'walking coma,' if you want, but most celestials think of Remnants like the walking _dead_. Zombies. Something that was destroyed and the husk left behind doesn't _lie down_. You can take a Remnant and give it new Celestial Forces, but the product is a new being, more like a 'child' of the Remnatized celestial who has a few dim memories of being a Remnant. (OTOH, this is a reasonable way to have a character who 'used to be human,' if you have a player who'd get into the idea better that way. Simply decree that this was a Remnant who slipped into its Role, and was discovered in time; the viewpoint of the new celestial might be akin to 'died and was reborn as an angel/demon.') - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 16:57:02 -0500 From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" Subject: IN> Recovered Remnants - ---- Original Message ----- From: "Prodigal" > There aren't any canonical examples of a remnant ever recovering that I know of. The version of Thor in "No Dinero" is not only damn close to recoverd, but an example of his recovered self is given a write up as well, if I recall things correctly. Even as a Remnant, he has Celestial Forces and is far superior to Humans. I don't have my books while I'm out to sea so I can't give direct quotes on it. Please forgive me if I am misremembering. But I think that pretty much qualifies the situation as a "possibility" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 23:07:35 +0200 (CEST) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Unni_Sol=E5s?= Subject: Re: IN> Quick question about cherubim On Sat, 13 Apr 2002, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > A Cherub PC who treats it with appropriate distress is more likely to > get off than one who shrugs. (Shrugging is Djinny. Dissonance is the > in-game mechanism by which roleplaying is encouraged/enforced/mandated > . ) :) Definitely no problem. The cherubim on my gaming group are so full of Angst and Protectiveness that the Attunes Ones are planning to found "The Supportive Society For Attuned Ones Of Overprotective Cherubim"... - -- Stercus, stercus, stercus, moriturus sum! Unni Sol峼/div> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 17:26:27 -0500 From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" Subject: RE: IN> The Humanists (was Re: Weird thoughts) With much snipping down of good points to get to the crux of my disagreement. - -----Original Message----- From: EDG [mailto:anthoch@earlham.edu] As the original poster, I'm going to try to clear this up. Please note that while the Humanists themselves are certainly not canon, anything I say here is canon WITHIN THE CONCEPT, simply because it's my idea. :P > I don't see how stripping away your own Forces can be considered anything > other than a redcution in power. This is true. Temporal power is definitely decreased. However, becoming a human allows the demon to bask again within God's love, and maybe - just maybe, if they're good enough at it - to get back into Heaven. (Note that this is almost never the case - at least, not on the first go- round. I imagine that any successful Humanist's fate is going to be "have been a demon", so that even if they achieve their destiny they'll either reincarnate or disperse. On the *second* go-round, though...) (Not that any of them know this.) - -EDG Right. Except to get back into God's good graces they only need walk to a Divine tether and ask for redemption. If they are already so sure they want back into Heaven's light then they only need to ask for forgiveness. This is dangerous, but much more of a safe bet than to hope that by reducing their power that they might find forgiveness. If they are from before the Rebellion than they know the Hellish Propaganda of demons being killed on sight is a lie. The Humanist plan requires them to hope that no other demon finds them before they have a "natural death" and to hope that no angels find them and stomp them down. And then they have to hope that they lived a good enough human life to make up for their evil. So I find fault with the premise because of the risk involved for no known payout. And Despite you saying otherwise, it is a reduction of power. A humbling of their nature. Doing it as a disguise doesn't make it any less of a humbling experience. If they were accepting the condition for a temporary length of time for a specific purpose then it would be understandable. Doing it for "forever" is humbling their nature. This is so far beyond the scope of selfishness required to be a demon that the ones you're talking about should have already redeemed, or at least become renegades. I really think this is an important aspect of the game. If Selfishness is not maintained as one of the driving forces in the demonic mindset than the game can very quickly degenerate into who can commit the worst atrocity. It becomes every bad thing that the Religious Right says Role Playing games are. I think it reflects badly on the game when things degenerate into the sort of behavior I find in the "World of Darkness" crowd. I used to like those games until they lost the philosophical focus of the first few printings. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 17:37:04 -0500 From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" Subject: RE: IN> Weird thoughts - -----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth McCoy [mailto:emccoy@nh.ultranet.com] At 10:08 AM -0500 4/13/02, Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW) wrote: >> Demons are insane -- some of them even want to change Words to better >ones, >> if they don't like being the Demon of Small Things That Squish Underfoot! >> Admittedly, losing a Word is like ripping your arm off slowly without >> painkillers, but... > > Letting yourself be stripped of one word to take on a greater word is >hardly a reduction in power. > That doesn't make it less traumatic. A Word is _part_ of a being. It's > really more than an arm -- it's a heart. If you think that allowing someone > to remove your heart, without anesthetics, just so a new one can be plugged > is something that even demons consider without qualms... I think she sums up my debate against the idea very well. If losing a Word is so traumatic, then how much more traumatic is Force stripping? I would think it would take a very obvious and immediate benefit, something tangible or at least readily apparent, to have an Angel go through this sort of trauma. Sure, they'll do it if ordered because they have faith in their superior. But for a demon to do it? No way. Ya'll have different opinions, but I just don't see it. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 21:58:36 -0000 From: "EDG" Subject: Re: IN> The Humanists At 05:26 PM 4/13/02 -0500, you wrote: > Right. Except to get back into God's good graces they only need walk to a > Divine tether and ask for redemption. If they are already so sure they want > back into Heaven's light then they only need to ask for forgiveness. You're missing the point. They do not want to be angels. Angels are, at the MOST, second best. They want to be best. The ONLY way to do that is to be human. (Besides which, redemption on that basis *will not happen*. You have to be sincerely penitent and desperately want to work for the forces of God on behalf of Heaven. These are characteristics that the Humanists, in general, do not possess.) > This is dangerous, but much more of a safe bet than to hope that by reducing > their power that they might find forgiveness. They don't want forgiveness. They want love. > If they are from before the Rebellion than they know the Hellish Propaganda > of demons being killed on sight is a lie. How? If they're from before the Rebellion then one of the *largest single impacts in their life* was seeing *tens of thousands of their friends* SLAUGHTERED by the angels. > The Humanist plan requires them to hope that no other demon > finds them before they have a "natural death" and to hope that no angels > find them and stomp them down. How? If they're human, they're human. All they have to do is avoid saying "Yeah, and I used to be a demon", and nobody's going to be able to do anything to them. > And then they have to hope that they lived a good enough human life to make > up for their evil. So I find fault with the premise because of the risk > involved for no known payout. The payout is that they'll be human, and thus receive the FIRST AND FOREMOST love of God Himself. Remember: Just because you wouldn't do something doesn't mean that it's wrong for *everybody else*. > Despite you saying otherwise, it is a reduction of power. A humbling of > their nature. Doing it as a disguise doesn't make it any less of a humbling > experience. If they were accepting the condition for a temporary length of > time for a specific purpose then it would be understandable. Doing it for > "forever" is humbling their nature. This is so far beyond the scope of > selfishness required to be a demon that the ones you're talking about should > have already redeemed, or at least become renegades. It is a reduction of their power. When the Humanists have succeeded, they are humans - five-Force humans. With no ability to control the expenditure of Essence. With no ability to use Songs. With no attunements, or rites, or resonance, or dissonance. It is *not* humility. You seem to be confusing "humility" with "voluntary reduction of power". "1. The state or quality of being humble; freedom from pride and arrogance; lowliness of mind; a modest estimate of one's own worth; a sense of one's own unworthiness through imperfection and sinfulness." (Webster's Unabridged, 1998) The Humanists are in no way free from pride or arrogance. They are so arrogant, in fact, that they think that they can fool God Himself. (Whether or not they are right has yet to be demonstrated.) And you have yet to demonstrate how this is not selfishness in its extreme. > I really think this is an important aspect of the game. If Selfishness is > not maintained as one of the driving forces in the demonic mindset than the > game can very quickly degenerate into who can commit the worst atrocity. It > becomes every bad thing that the Religious Right says Role Playing games > are. As do I. On the other hand, demons *on a regular basis* commit atrocities that we, as humans, couldn't even conceive. > I think it reflects badly on the game when things degenerate into the sort > of behavior I find in the "World of Darkness" crowd. I used to like those > games until they lost the philosophical focus of the first few printings. .. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 18:26:38 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: RE: IN> Weird thoughts At 5:37 PM -0500 4/13/02, Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW) wrote: >I think [Beth] sums up my debate against the idea very well. If losing a Word >is so traumatic, then how much more traumatic is Force stripping? Less, I'd say. I'm not making that canon, mind, since I don't have to. But considering how Forces can be lost in combat -- and gained back on one's own, the comparison is more likely to be a Very Bad Hangnail versus one's living, beating heart. Which doesn't mean that losing a Force is _easy_ or _trivial_ or "merely uncomfortable." It's very painful. But losing a Word is much, MUCH, _MUCH_, _*MUCH*_ worse. >But for a demon to do it? No way. Ya'll have different opinions, but I >just don't see it. Demons are insane in many different ways. Just because one, a few, or even many demons do X does not mean ALL demons would do X. (And, as noted once before online, Habbalah have no monopoly on Delusions, just as Balseraphs have none on lying. They just happen to be _known_ for it...) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 17:47:55 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine-Medieval? Jeremy Smith wrote: > > I am almost certain that someone has at least given some thought to running > an In Nomine campaign in the Middle Ages here. The two simply seem to fit > together rather well, and are a welcome respite from the "Oh no! The > Armageddon approaches!" campaigns. Actually, during the Middle Ages, the belief that Armageddon was imminent was at least as prevalent as it is now. I don't see why angels and demons would think any differently. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 18:55:32 -0400 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: IN> New Servitor of Asmodeus Galsiph Impudite of the Game Captain of Integrity The Demon of False Witness Corporeal Forces: 5 Strength 12 Agility: 8 Ethereal Forces: 6 Intelligence 14 Precision 10 Celestial Forces: 4 Will 10 Perception: 6 Vessel: Middle aged man/2 Middle aged woman/2 (Both have Charisma of +3) Role: Shaun McGregor. Attorney 4/5 Lisa Hidori. Psychologist 3/3 Skills: Computer Operation (2), Dodge (4), Knowledge (Law/6 Psychology/5), Emote (4), Fast-Talk (3), Fighting (2), Savoir-Faire (3), Seduction (4), Small Weapon (Knife/2) Songs: Binding (3), Charm (Coporeal/2, Celestial/5), Essence (Ethereal/4), Motion (Celestial/5), Retribution (Celestial 4), Shields (Corporeal and Ethereal, both 3) Attunements: Impudite of The Game, Impudite of Fate, Humanity, Knight of Judgment, Captain of Integrity, Demon of False Witness Demon of False Witness: Once per day with a successful Will Roll, Galsiph can add his Celestial Forces to the target number of anyone who is bearing false witness for him. Galsiph must have the person charmed first before using this ability. This bonus applies to how convincing the testimony that is being given by the person. The most obvious question that has been asked time and again (And out of the earshot of Superiors) is: "Why an Impudite?" Basically, the Word is not something that would fit a Balseraph. Having a Balseraph openly admit that they promoted falsehood would go against their world view and would lead to a Servitor failing in his duties. With an Impudite, they could rely on charm to get the right kind of testimony without having to worry about a framework of lies falling apart and jarring their personal Symphony. Galsiph has the dubious honor of being one of the most openly loathed Servitors of The Game from Dominic's angels. The mere mention of his name is enough to make even the more peaceful members of Judgment reach for weapons. Other demons of The Game grant him grudging respect and Servitors of other Demon Princes have had need for his services. He first came to Earth in the middle of the 12th Century. As a loyal Servitor of The Game, he rooted out treason in his fellow demons (Whether it was there or not) and served for many years with distinction. He began to serve in human courts as a lawyer and quickly learned how easy it could be to dupe people. With the right words in the right ears, and convincing testimony, you could get even the most vile of people released from prison. It was his defense of a murderer in 19th Century France with the testimony of witnesses that had been paid or threatened to give their testimony that granted him the Word of False Witness. The Lightbringer had been in the audience and watched Gelsiph's deft manipulation with considerable interest. So Galsiph took to these new duties with a passion. He views himself as the embodiment of the phrase "It's not whether you are innocent or guilty; just if you have the better lawyer." He mostly restricts his duties to providing "eyewitnesses" to cases where a criminal needs to be released (Such as a demonic Servitor or particularly important Soldier). The testimony he manages to get, the "proof" that he can provide and his supernatural Charm make it quite easy to convince a jury of someone's innocence. Of course, the Servitor or Soldier must agree to assist either Galsiph or The Game at a later time... Needless to say, Galsiph's existence is considered one of the worst atrocities to exist on the Corporeal plane in the eyes of Dominic's angels. Several Seraphim on Earth began to collaborate on ways to kill him that would even make an Elohite uncomfortable. Galsiph takes the threats in stride for now. He has access to a Body Bag and a few loyal bodyguards to shorten the life of any angels that attempt to kill him off. Asmodeus considers Galsiph to be an effective tool in the courtroom. He has seen the Taker emerge victorious in several trials that had him matching wits with Dominic's angels. And Galsiph chuckles as he sees people view courts as nothing more than a source of justice for those who can afford it. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 17:38:22 -0600 From: "Wade Lahoda" Subject: Re: IN> Weird thoughts - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth McCoy" > > Letting yourself be stripped of one word to take on a greater word is > >hardly a reduction in power. > > That doesn't make it less traumatic. A Word is _part_ of a being. It's > really more than an arm -- it's a heart. If you think that allowing someone > to remove your heart, without anesthetics, just so a new one can be plugged > is something that even demons consider without qualms... Of course, it's not like trying to remove your /own/ arm, as someone else said. Sure, it might be painful, and you might have an idea of how painful - but it's a lot easier to say "Strap me down and do it, no matter how much I scream" than it is to willfully go all the way through. But I imagine once you've convinced Lucifer to change your Word, no Demon would ever think of saying "Umm, I've changed my mind, oh Darkest of Dark Lords." In short...it's something they might aspire to because they can rationalize the pain will be worth it - and the decision is made when they aren't suffering said pain. Right? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 19:52:13 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Weird thoughts > >Which doesn't mean that losing a Force is _easy_ or _trivial_ or "merely >uncomfortable." It's very painful. > >But losing a Word is much, MUCH, _MUCH_, _*MUCH*_ worse. > I was under the impression that, without some serious Superior power intervening, it wasn't possible. After all, at a certain point a worded celestial loses its own forces before its Word forces. Josh ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 19:55:29 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine-Medieval? >Jeremy Smith wrote: >> >> I am almost certain that someone has at least given some thought to running >> an In Nomine campaign in the Middle Ages here. The two simply seem to fit >> together rather well, and are a welcome respite from the "Oh no! The >> Armageddon approaches!" campaigns. > >Actually, during the Middle Ages, the belief that Armageddon was >imminent was at least as prevalent as it is now. I don't see why angels >and demons would think any differently. > >-David Really? I figured it was a great deal like angels and demons snickering at the televangelists who proclaim the End to be just around the corner. A) they'd know long before the humans and B) human religion makes some really funny and inane doctrine and proposals at times. Then again you could have the heretical cult of angels who believe that the year 1000 will see the second coming of Uriel. Josh ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 00:33:28 +0000 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> Quick question about cherubim >The cherubim on my gaming group are so full of >Angst and Protectiveness that the Attunes Ones are planning to found "The >Supportive Society For Attuned Ones Of Overprotective Cherubim"... *Chortle* Janet Anderson _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 20:43:07 -0400 From: "Steven E. Ehrbar" Subject: Re: IN> Weird thoughts From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" > I would think, from a Celestial's POV, a Remnant has a chance of someday >healing. > GIN 16 -- "Remnants cannot be repaired -- even if a Superior could replace the tattered remains of the soul, the result wouldn't be the same entity, but a new being who had vauge memories of being a Remnant." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 20:55:17 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine-Medieval? Josh Moger wrote: > Really? I figured it was a great deal like angels and demons snickering at > the televangelists who proclaim the End to be just around the corner. A) > they'd know long before the humans and B) human religion makes some really > funny and inane doctrine and proposals at times. B is true, but A isn't necessarily true. While celestials can hear Gabriel's trumpet, they don't know the next time it's going to blow. I imagine quite a few angels and demons do occasionally read the "signs" and come to believe the End is Nigh. I seem to recall some reference to celestials getting caught up in millenial fever back around 1000 A.D. But I can't remember now if that was in canon or in one of my non-canon works. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 21:15:27 -0500 From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" Subject: IN> Historical I dunno if it's all the talk of medievalism or that I just watched Clint Eastwood in "Pale Rider" but has anyone thought about a game setting using the old west? There goes Judge "Hang 'em High" Dominic, escorting the new school m'arm, Miss Beth. Over at the Shady Rest Saloon you've got Mizzuz Blandine, I hear she's sells a drink that'll knock a strong man right out. And that there's Sheriff Laurence, walking with Mister Marc who owns the General Store. Just coming in on his weekly run is that Pony Express boy, Janus. I hear he's good friends with the injuns that are lead by that Chief Jordi Eagle Claw. At noon the train'll be in and it's engineer, Jean, will tell ya all the happenings in the big city. Maybe he might even have some mail for that settler fellah, David, or some physics for the Nurse, Novalis. Yeap, this ol' town sure sees a lotta action. Why just last week the Lucky Lucifer Gang come riding in from Hades Gulch and caused a mess o' trouble. "Big Game" Azzie and his boys, Black Baal and crazy "Burn 'em up" Belial made a big fuss, shooting up the stage coach. Then there was that time when "Slap Happy Vappie" blew up the bank safe and took out the back wall of the place too. An' don't even get me started about that Valfer fellah, he ain't nuthin but a low down, dirty hos' theif. Actually... I can see Marc being a Riverboat gambler type as well as a store keeper. But I've always been a fan of Brett Maverick. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 23:09:51 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Historical Only if we get a Brisco County, Jr. soldier of God (probably IST Michael). Josh ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 22:01:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Break Moe's Brain Contest Winners I am pleased to announce that I have FINALLY updated the webpage in general and put up most of the BRB contest entries in particular (I'm still trying to track a couple down: feel free to email them. *Please*). The page is at: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/BMB.html It was not the easiest contest to judge: there are apparently many ways to hurt somebody's brain, as exemplified by your entries. It took a couple of days to work out a sliding scale of brain-hurting, and even then the competition was heavy. So, even if you didn't win, remember: they ALL caused brainburn. Anyway: the winners. In third place, we have Josh Moger's A Statement of Purity: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine/guest/Purity.htm A fine example of the "Caused actual hairs to stand up on my head" type of brainburn. In second place is Matthew Gerber's Consider the Word: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine/guest/ConsiderWord.htm This one caused the type of brainburn normally experienced during mental vertigo from imagining the effect that this notion would have on play... And, our winner: Casca's Undead Sun: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine/guest/UndeadSun.htm ...simply because I actually said aloud "Where in God's Name did THAT come from, and why couldn't have I thought of it first?" when I read it. Again, thanks for breaking my brain for my birthday, everyone, and rest assured that I'll be -sure- to return the favor... ;) Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/13/02(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2600 ********************************