in_nomine-digest Monday, April 15 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2602 In this digest: Re: IN> Re: In Nomine Medieval? Re: IN> Recovered Remnants Re: IN> I need a picture Re: IN> Historical Re: IN> Historical Re: IN> sigh... Re: IN> Historical Re: IN> Historical Re: IN> Historical Re: IN> Historical IN> Cowboys and INjuns was: Re:Historical Re: IN> Cowboys and INjuns was: Re:Historical Re: IN> Cowboys and INjuns was: Re:Historical Re: IN> Cowboys and INjuns was: Re:Historical IN> IN:Wild West Re: IN> IN:Wild West Re: IN> IN:Wild West Re: IN> IN:Wild West Re: IN> Recovered Remnants RE: IN> Historical RE: IN> Cowboys and INjuns was: Re:Historical RE: IN> Cowboys and INjuns was: Re:Historical IN> Words of Dubious Worth IN> Lightning Remnant RE: IN> IN:Wild West Re: IN> Cowboys and INjuns was: Re:Historical Re: IN> Words of Dubious Worth IN> For Valefor perhaps IN> A few unrelated questions Re: IN> A few unrelated questions Re: IN> Cowboys and INjuns was: Re:Historical Re: IN> IN:Wild West Re: IN> Cowboys and INjuns was: Re:Historical Re: IN> Words of Dubious Worth Re: IN> IN:Wild West Re: IN> In Nomine-Medieval? Re: IN> Weird thoughts Re: IN> Recovered Remnants Re: IN> A few unrelated questions ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:05:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Re: In Nomine Medieval? - --- Jeremy Smith wrote: > Yes, but the point is that your freedoms were generally > much less curtailed > in the city than the countryside-better to be an > oppressed taxpayer than an oppressed serf. As a taxpayer, I find that point debatable. ;> ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 "In film, the director is God. In documentaries, God is the director." - -- Alfred Hitchcock __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:13:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Recovered Remnants - --- "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" wrote: > The version of Thor in "No Dinero" is not only damn close > to recoverd, but > an example of his recovered self is given a write up as > well, if I recall > things correctly. Even as a Remnant, he has Celestial > Forces and is far superior to Humans. Then he's not really a Remnant, at least not in the sense that Celestials think of such. Thor's also an Ethereal, and they're a special case -- since they're created by human belief, there is at least a possibility that human belief can repair the damaged ones (which is why Uriel didn't just kill off Ethereals, he made a concerted effort to stamp out the religions that spawned them). And Thor does have active worshippers in the modern age; neo-Nazis count, ya know. ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 "In film, the director is God. In documentaries, God is the director." - -- Alfred Hitchcock __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:17:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> I need a picture - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > I'm getting a new computer, you see - and it > apparently already has a name ("Heresy"*). I'll need > an appropriate background picture, of course: does > anybody know where I can find a bitmap of one of those > "No" symbols? You know, the circle with the diagonal > line running through it? > > (pause) > > Great. Now does anyone know where I can find one that > has devil ears and a tail?** Do you have Photoshop? Once you have the International Negation Symbol, you can use that program to modify the picture to taste. ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 "In film, the director is God. In documentaries, God is the director." - -- Alfred Hitchcock __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:33:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Historical - --- "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" wrote: > > I dunno if it's all the talk of medievalism or that I > just watched Clint > Eastwood in "Pale Rider" but has anyone thought about a > game setting using > the old west? Oh, yeah, you've been watching waaaaay too much Eastwood. But I'm surprised you missed referring to that shady Miss Lilith who runs the bordello... ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 "In film, the director is God. In documentaries, God is the director." - -- Alfred Hitchcock __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:34:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Historical - --- Charles Glasgow wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > Gabriel (not Gabrielle) gets to be the town's > hellfire-and-brimstone > preacher then, I take it? *g* Which would make that nice Mr. Fleurity the salloon keeper. ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 "In film, the director is God. In documentaries, God is the director." - -- Alfred Hitchcock __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:35:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> sigh... - --- Patrick None wrote: > I'm sure this comes up all the time, but does anyone > have a Nephilim > write - up that isn't Nephilim as Fallen Grigori? Not until you do it, Patrick. 0;> ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 "In film, the director is God. In documentaries, God is the director." - -- Alfred Hitchcock __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:37:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Historical - --- Unni_Sol峠 wrote: > *sigh* I haven't seen enough westerns to get all the > archetypes here - but > we _are_ in sore lack of a doctor. Preferably a hard > drinking one. Any > suggestions? Why, that would be that nice Doc Yves what takes such good care of everbody... ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 "In film, the director is God. In documentaries, God is the director." - -- Alfred Hitchcock __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:39:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Historical - --- Unni_Sol峠 wrote: > On Sun, 14 Apr 2002, Maurice Lane wrote: > Dang! Who'll do the preachin' then? Rev. Khalid, perhaps? ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 "In film, the director is God. In documentaries, God is the director." - -- Alfred Hitchcock __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:42:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Historical And lest we forgot, the townsfolk and the bandits from Hades Gulch got together to deal with the threat of Colenol Legion and his redlegs. Sure was brave of the former schoolmarm Miss Raphael to give her life to end his reign of terror... ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 "In film, the director is God. In documentaries, God is the director." - -- Alfred Hitchcock __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 17:01:52 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Historical > And lest we forgot, the townsfolk and the bandits from >Hades Gulch got together to deal with the threat of Colenol >Legion and his redlegs. Sure was brave of the former >schoolmarm Miss Raphael to give her life to end his reign >of terror... Hey! Anyone heard from Captain Oannes? I haven't heard a word from him since he and that nice Demo boy went fishing a few years back. Josh ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 21:16:58 +0000 From: "cassandra benner" Subject: IN> Cowboys and INjuns was: Re:Historical >Hey! Anyone heard from Captain Oannes? I haven't heard a word from him >since he and that nice Demo boy went fishing a few years back. Got me a letter from Miss Mary Ell a few weeks back, be blasted if'n i recall what it was about though. I hear the cook over at the Tied Hog dinner does a mean steak, piles up the plater for ya too. And dont forget that young 'Lithe' Roy is getting his printing press set up and is asking all kinds of questions.. Mayor 'Stoney' David will be wanting to meet most of the folks round here.. Likes them all to get along nicely he does. Some Snoop from the city is wanting an interview with the Devils Gulch Gang, goes by the name of Al.E.Mon. A man shouldnt have to many dots in his name i tells ya. Cas *Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be Evil.* In Nomine @ http://www.angelfire.com/goth/psyber/i-n.html In Nomine yahoo @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/inveritas ADnD forum @ http://www.drunkendwarfinn.co.uk ADnD stuff @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ADandD_Stuff _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 18:01:29 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Cowboys and INjuns was: Re:Historical >Some Snoop from the city is wanting an interview with the Devils Gulch Gang, >goes by the name of Al.E.Mon. >A man shouldnt have to many dots in his name i tells ya. > > Better'n that fella that used Miss Mary Ell useta follow around. What was his name? Geb. E. Leth, wasn't it? And has that lazy, sack of horse manure Messy gotten around to shoeing that new mare I got from Jordi Eagle Claw? Ol' Five-eyed Josh (remember? I got one blinded by that darned fool Slappy Vappy. Man should say something, before he lights a block of magnesium on fire.) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 18:06:06 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Cowboys and INjuns was: Re:Historical (Simply because once it entered my head, it refused to leave until I obliged it and wrote it down.) Oh, near plumb forgot, anyone heard what happened to that crazy Lane boy they hadta take to the asylum a month ago? Boy was spreading the strangest stories... Josh ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 18:17:18 -0700 From: "Patrick None" Subject: Re: IN> Cowboys and INjuns was: Re:Historical Shouldn't the sheriff be black? The first black sheriff? Patrick ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 15:46:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Burzelic Subject: IN> IN:Wild West Welcome to the town o' Symphony. My name's Litheroy. But you can call me Roy, most everyone does. I'm the local ragman. That is, most everyone calls me a muckraker or gossip monger. I prefer the title, Purveror o' the Truth. If yer none too busy, you can plant a seat and I'll spin ya the hist'ry of this ol' town. Way back when this land was nothin' but unexplored wilderness, the soon-to-be founder o' this here town came through. He took one look at the scene and as if t'were nuthin' took to formin' it up right. Lickity-split he had the town done up in a week's time. Brought a passel o' folks in to upkeep it, and settled down at the Northern end o' town. In those days it seemed we'd always have blue skies. But as luck would show us, tain't nuthin' goes up, which don't come down. But I gittin' ahead o' myself. Y'see the Founder had some help in workin' the land and irrigatin' it and settin' ever'thing up proper. These folks were the first o' the town's settlers. After the Founder hisself, came Yves, a learned man who knew the name o' just about ever'thing you could lay an eye on. Then there was Mr. Lucifer Morningstar, a right dapper fella who had a penchant fer runnin' on at the mouth on account o' his Gift o' Gab. 'Long with Lucifer came Michael, a no non-sense kinda soldier who took to honest work and friendly competitions o' physical exertion. Some other folks to note were, Rev. Gabriel, ol' David the Miner, Judge Dominic and his Legal Assitant Asmodeus, Metatron with the newspaper "The Voice", and Eli the Jack of All Trades. There's a whole lot more but we don't have time to get into them all now. I'm itchin' to tell ya the juicy parts. The town o' Symphony started growin' like weeds on a cow patch and the Founder says it's 'bout time we had us a real settlement fer folks from all around to come and call home. With the land bein' fertile and what have you it tweren't long afore there was people all over the place. Heck, you couldn't hock to a spitoon without someone gittin' in the way. Then they'd start all kinds a ruckus. That's about when Lucifer Morningstar got hisself to thinkin'. "All these folks ain't respectin' nothin'. Not the Land, not the critters, not us townies, not even the Founder. Not to mention their takin' advantage of our hospitality and'd be nothin' without us." he started sayin' one day. These words started rufflin' a few feathers on account of alotta the original citizenry felt similar-like. The Founder, he just looked up and proposed that they have test. They would take a couple brand new folks and put 'em out in a frontier home and see what they make o' themselves. Well, everyone agreed to it and they set out to test the people. The first couple didn't work out so well. A man named Adam and a lady named Lilith were put to the test. Adam was a right good test subject, but Lilith warn't used ta the lifestyle of the frontier and she said, "No thank you." and up n' left. Well, that was a bit of pickle. So they tried again. Adam was still up to it and this time was paired up with a woman named Eve. By and bye, the test was underway. At first it was goin' smoothly but then some townsfolk couldn't help but pitch in their two cents. Somebody done leave the couple an apple-pie and thought nobody'd see it. Durned fools. Anyway, this threw out the whole exercise and Lucifer said it'd have to be done again. The Founder said if ya'll couldn't leave well enough alone, ya'll can deal with my decisions as is, and leave them folks be. And that was the end o' that. Er so we thought. Turns out, ol' Morningstar'd had enough of what he thought was bein' pushed around. Started droppin' flies in the ointment and other unpleasantness, and afore a body could do a thing, he got hisself a riot. Lucifer was a tricky one and had it all mapped out too, he had already killed Metatron ta keep "The Voice" from goin' against his plan. After that, he got a whole third o' the town rallied to his side. They were raisin' trouble and set the town to war. We fought the best we could, but the battle was really swayed when Michael stepped into the road with the mantle o' the Law pinned to his vest. He sauntered right past ever'one straight up to Morningstar. To say they tussled would be an understatement, to say they clashed still ain't right, to say they feverishly onslaughted one another in a battle-royale unseen of before and since would be closer to appropriate. And even before the dust could settle Michael threw Lucifer toward the southern end of town where a deep gulch lay just beyond the railstation. Some say, Lucifer Morningstar didn't touch the ground until he lay at the bottom of said gulch. And when he did he was froze stiff on account the gulch was so deep it was icy. Anyway, ever'one turned to watch Lucifer take flight and when he fell out of sight, Michael turned to the paralyzed turmoil and said, "All of you who are truckin' with that Devil will join him in that pit. Now you can go of yer own volition or you can have the boot. Choose. Now." We never seen a dissent-intendin' mind here in Northern Symphony again. Next I'll tell ya all about tween then and now. My throat's parched let me pour us a couple o' lemonades. (to be cont.) Hope yer enjoyin' ma yarn, Jim __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 20:27:32 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> IN:Wild West Ahhh... the comforting feeling of being wrapped in a global network of cracked people with wonderfully abby normal minds and imaginations. And how many other gaming systems can be stretched like taffy to fit any given scenario? Josh ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 20:27:16 -0700 From: "Patrick None" Subject: Re: IN> IN:Wild West Unknown Armies. But by the end of the session, everyone wishes it couldn't be. Patrick :) . > > > And how many other gaming systems can be stretched like taffy to fit any > given scenario? > > > Josh > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 20:48:37 -0400 From: Eric Eves Subject: Re: IN> IN:Wild West Josh Moger wrote: > And how many other gaming systems can be stretched like taffy to fit any > given scenario? All of them. Some are just easier than others. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 21:38:40 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Recovered Remnants From: "Michael Walton" > > And Thor does have active worshippers in the modern age; > neo-Nazis count, ya know. They are not the only ones who worship Thor in the modern day*, but now that I've said that for the record, I will confine any further discussion to offlist replies. *I'm not one, but I know some Asatru whose opinions of the Nazis are even lower than my own. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 23:40:45 -0500 From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" Subject: RE: IN> Historical - -----Original Message----- From: Josh Moger [mailto:jamoge@wm.edu] Hey! Anyone heard from Captain Oannes? I haven't heard a word from him since he and that nice Demo boy went fishing a few years back. Josh He got et up by a white whale. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 23:58:30 -0500 From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" Subject: RE: IN> Cowboys and INjuns was: Re:Historical > Some Snoop from the city is wanting an interview > with the Devils Gulch Gang, goes by the name of > Al.E.Mon. A man shouldnt have to many dots in > his name i tells ya. Was he a reporter? I thought he was with the Pinkertons. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 23:47:38 -0500 From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" Subject: RE: IN> Cowboys and INjuns was: Re:Historical - -----Original Message----- From: Patrick None [mailto:deadairis@hotmail.com] Shouldn't the sheriff be black? The first black sheriff? Patrick Only if the GM is Mel Brooks. Blazing Heavenly Saddles?? Now my brain hurts. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 00:13:16 -0500 From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" Subject: IN> Words of Dubious Worth Since we're no longer talking about stripping words... - -----Original Message----- From: Unni Sol峠[mailto:solas@pvv.ntnu.no] Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 11:06 AM On Sun, 14 Apr 2002, Maurice Lane wrote: > Ahem. It's an interesting concept for a demon (I'm > seeing something like a sentient crash test dummy*?), > but I -entirely- fail to see how Silly Rubber Monsters > can be even remotely considered an Infernal Word... > Anyone with children would disagree with you, I think.:) Media is Evil, and Media promotes (amongst other things) Silly Rubber Monsters. And they cost a lot of money. And All The Other Kids Has One. Or several....;) Unni Sol峼/div> I have children. I know 'zactly what you're talking about. Those freakin' Ninja Turtles toys drove me crazy. There has to be a Demon who sits around and promotes the newest toy craze each year. Tickelme Elmo, Furbie, Power Rangers, Pokemon. Christopher probably hates him. Demon of Shopping Madness? Demon of Toy Crazes? Demon of Marketing Schemes? Obviously he works for Mammon, unless some less than bright servitor of Admodeus took the idea of being part of "The Game" a bit too literaly. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 00:25:14 -0500 From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" Subject: IN> Lightning Remnant This is a combination of Remnant chat, Spock's Brain and a conversation about robbing banks. Adventure seed? An older, but not so powerfullish Servitor of Lightning reduced to Remnant hood is found by some Servitors of Valfor. They find the nearly zombiefied shell after a freak power surge screwed up one of their B&E jobs. They discover that if they dump like six Essence into him at one surge that it makes him spew out a small scale EMP. Not too much, just enough to frazzle all electronics within forty of fifty yards. It'll kill radios and fry anything with a circuit board that is turned on. Now they just walk up to the door of a bank, make the Remnant pop off a pulse and they have shorted out every defense the bank has. External monitoring would just read as a power outage, and since the buildings next door would have the same, police investigation might be slow, if any. If nothing else, they won't be on film so they can run in and grab a lot before police respond. If they're smart enough to not park too close to their new partner. Or is this just too much coffee and too long at sea making me think weird things? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 23:53:03 -0500 From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" Subject: RE: IN> IN:Wild West > And how many other gaming systems can be stretched like taffy to fit any > given scenario? > > > Josh > > I'm not sure, but I know about half a dozen folks who use IN stuff in Amber Diceless. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 00:54:15 -0700 From: "Patrick None" Subject: Re: IN> Cowboys and INjuns was: Re:Historical > Shouldn't the sheriff be black? > The first black sheriff? > Patrick > > Only if the GM is Mel Brooks. > > Blazing Heavenly Saddles?? > > Now my brain hurts. > > Well, I figure that his quote is from Mel Brooks... And he is *Dark* humor. Patrick ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 01:37:19 -0400 From: "Steven E. Ehrbar" Subject: Re: IN> Words of Dubious Worth Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW) wrote: >Demon of Shopping Madness? >Demon of Toy Crazes? >Demon of Marketing Schemes? > >Obviously he works for Mammon, unless some less than bright servitor of >Admodeus took the idea of being part of "The Game" a bit too literaly. > Nah. Mass-market desire for toys that either get forgotten or broken is more Haagentian in nature. Mammon will of course be cooperating in the mechandising deals, but his nearest minon to the demand end is the Demon of Baseball Card Collecting, convincing kids to collect complete sets of mint-condition baseball cards. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:23:10 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> For Valefor perhaps okay, I haven't gotten -anything- from the list in the past week or so, I'm guessing that -yes- it's still running, but that I've been bumped off of it again ... somehow. Anyway, I came across this : http://forbes.com/home/2002/04/10/0410pow.html thought of Valefor, thought of you. - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________ T鬩chargez MSN Explorer gratuitement ࠬ'adresse http://explorer.msn.fr/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 04:05:33 -0600 From: Julian Mensch Subject: IN> A few unrelated questions There's a bunch of general things on different topics that I've wanted to ask about, and I thought I'd bunch them together to avoid crowding the list with multiple, very short posts. So here goes... 1. In the Vampire: the Masquerade novel trilogy, _Masquerade of the Red Death_, the author draws upon a lot of Hebrew mythology and esoterica. One of the most interesting stories was an origin for the /shedim/ (unrelated to the Band per se; the word in Hebrew is simply synonimous with general demons). Specifically, the author postulated that before God made this world, he made other, failed creations tied to the Qlippoth. These broken universes ("broken spheres," if I remember the novel correctly) were locked out of our creation in a very Lovecraftian style, and the blasphemous mistakes that dwelled therein occasionally escaped to plague our world -- the shedim, or alien horror-styled fire demons. Now, since this was a WoD novel it obviously gives a skewed version of the true mythology. I was wondering if anybody on the list could point me toward a more official description of this legend, as it ties into a Heresy project that I've been working on for In Nomine. I highly suspect that thesource is /The Alphabet of Ben Sira/, because the incompetant God motif very much fits with that work's tone, but I don't have a full copy of that work, and don't really know where to get one, or even if it really is the source. So I thought there were several bright minds on the list, and it couldn't hurt to ask... 2. I got the APG several months back, and I just have to say that I like it a great deal. I'm not trying to provoke our gracious ListAdmin here, but I know that there are some familiar names on the author list, and I wanted to point out that a minority at least do like the work there -- including the expanded resonances. I am especially enamoured of the Cherub expansion; IMO being able to know what your Attuned is doing puts the Cherub resonance of the same level as that of the other Choirs, and Nemesis attunements are just keen. And I'm also partial to the Mercurians knowing what it takes to gain someone's trust; I'm almost tempted to make that their main resonance and the core table into their -2 table. It very much fits with the role of the ministering angel, and it's nicely creepy for low-contrast games. Altogether, I think that the expanded resonances give the Choirs a more organic feel, where you actually resonate for Truth or Devotion or Relations instead of Detecting Lies, Tracking People or Scaning People's History. Having multiple, diverse powers just seems more natural to me, somehow -- like the resonance was for a _concept_ and the powers were just an outgrowth of that. I will admit that the Kyrio resonance tables seemed munchy -- with their already powerful resonance, they didn't need better information gathering powers than the Seraphim or Elohim! And the Elohim kinda got screwed on new resonance powers, IMO... Anyway, enough. Suffice it to say that, with no hostility to the book's detractors, I wanted to compliment the authors. This said, I'm now tempted by the IPG, but I know it's very different, trying to avoid the "mistakes" of the APG. What I wanted to ask was whether it has A) a detailed psychology section, like the APG; B) a section describing the Princes' manner in meetings, like the APG, and C) if it has any expanded resonances, and what they're like detail-wise in contrast with the APG. I know there are no check digit tables, but I was wondering if there's any significant new resonance crunchiness at all. The only thing I've heard about is Lilim sensing specific Needs at -2, and that seems to be fairly minor. 3. Fall of the Malakim. From what I've heard, it's to be avoided as a book, especially for me since I can't stand linear adventures. But I've also heard that it has rules expansions that are _really necessary_ to run the Lilim, as the current main-book rules seem a little, well, off. (Compose 6 Geas/1 into 1 Geas/6? I don't think so!) Are these rules reprinted else- where, and if not how essential are they? 4. Speaking of Malakim and the APG, the one lone detail that struck me as really off about that book was the "judging people by their own standards" thing in the Malakim writeup. It just finishes talking about how they are moral objectivists (which I liked) and then seagues into explaining that no Virtue killed Hitler because he thought he was doing the right thing. This seems really wierd, given that they would likely have similar problems killing most Balseraphs and many other demons, and they would be required to punish humans plagued by guilt for basically normal things that social ostracism ("It must be my fault!") or sexual fantasy. This seems to push the Choir into very dark territory, and I don't think that's what the author (David E., IIRC) seemed to have in mind in the rest of the writeup. So I'm gathering that I misunderstood what is being said somehow. Could someone perhaps explain this paradox? 5. In terms of getting a grasp on the actual world (as opposed to base setting info) of In Nomine -- that is, important named NPC's, geographical detail on different cities, etc.), which book is better: You are Here or the Liber Castellorum? Which has the most canonical information and details about the details of the war, what's going on where, who controls what cities and so forth? To use another referance, which of these books most accurately maps to being "_A World of Darkness_" for In Nomine? And which comes the highest recommended. 6. Islamic Wierdness -- who has some? It seems there's a lot of Hebrew and Christian legendary, esoterica and out- right folklore on the Web, but not as much for Islam. Does anybody have any good sites to recommend for info on the more mystical, legendary or outright bizairre side of this religion -- in other words, things that make good IN plot hooks? I'd love to hear about any wierd Muslim legends along with (to keep it on topic) thoughts on how they might work in the world on In Nomine. One final kudos -- another book I got a while back was Superiors 3, the only one of that series that I own, and I'm really impressed. Khalid and Yves really stand out, though the entire book is great. Gabriel seems a little bit unheroic, but I think there's a lot of interesting stuff that can be done with her as well, and Blandine really adds a lot to the setting in a subtle way. So I just wanted to give my complements on good work. - -- Julian Mensch ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 07:23:51 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> A few unrelated questions Julian Mensch wrote: > highly suspect> that thesource is /The Alphabet of Ben Sira/, > because the incompetant God motif very much fits > with that work's tone, but I don't have a full > copy of that work, and don't really know where > to get one, or even if it really is the source. > So I thought there were several bright minds on > the list, and it couldn't hurt to ask... There's this wonderful invention called the Internet -- maybe you've heard of it? It lets you find lots of things quickly. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/9004107673/qid=1018873044/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_1_2/102-4970318-8306503 - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 05:31:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Cowboys and INjuns was: Re:Historical - --- Josh Moger wrote: > Oh, near plumb forgot, anyone heard what happened to that > crazy Lane boy > they hadta take to the asylum a month ago? Boy was > spreading the strangest > stories... Dang shame, that. Hope that nice Miss Jaymie Ell can get him all mended up. 0;> ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 "In film, the director is God. In documentaries, God is the director." - -- Alfred Hitchcock __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 05:35:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> IN:Wild West Oh, what we have wrought... More, please! ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 "In film, the director is God. In documentaries, God is the director." - -- Alfred Hitchcock __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 05:39:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Cowboys and INjuns was: Re:Historical - --- Patrick None wrote: > Shouldn't the sheriff be black? > The first black sheriff? "A Blackwing Sherriff?!?" "Hey, it worked in 'Blazing Seraphim'..." ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 "In film, the director is God. In documentaries, God is the director." - -- Alfred Hitchcock __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 05:45:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Words of Dubious Worth - --- "Steven E. Ehrbar" wrote: > Nah. Mass-market desire for toys that either get > forgotten or broken is more Haagentian in nature. Nybbas might want a piece of that action, too. > Mammon will of course be cooperating in the > mechandising deals, but his nearest minon to the demand > end is the Demon of Baseball Card Collecting Or maybe the Demon of Collectible Cards... that would give him M:tG, Pokemon and DBZ as well. ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 "In film, the director is God. In documentaries, God is the director." - -- Alfred Hitchcock __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:52:33 +0200 (CEST) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Unni_Sol=E5s?= Subject: Re: IN> IN:Wild West Wonderful! I'm eagerly awaiting the next part:) - -- Stercus, stercus, stercus, moriturus sum! Unni Sol峼/div> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:28:19 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine-Medieval? R L wrote: > > Imagine London 1345 (must check exact year but I think it was -45), > the plague is breaking out again...some people are talking about > witches and the devils influence... and here are these people > walking around untouched by the disease and displaying strange > powers.... Want to burn some witches? Look no further! (Actually it > seems they mostly didn't look further...) The prime witch-burning time was the Renaissance, actually, not the Middle Ages. The Medievals burned heretics, and did not trouble themselves much about witches; if they were educated, they mostly didn't believe witches had any powers, but were just self-deluded and/or used mundane poisons; if they weren't educated, witches were just part of the landscape, and not so big a part as they were in the Renaissance. An IN celestial that was careless enough to display unusual powers in the Middle Ages would have about equal chances of being taken for a saint or a hedge-wizard of some species (or a fay) .. which might be what they intended. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:28:15 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Weird thoughts At 7:52 PM -0400 4/13/02, Josh Moger wrote: >> >>Which doesn't mean that losing a Force is _easy_ or _trivial_ or "merely >>uncomfortable." It's very painful. >> >>But losing a Word is much, MUCH, _MUCH_, _*MUCH*_ worse. >> > >I was under the impression that, without some serious Superior power >intervening, it wasn't possible. After all, at a certain point a worded >celestial loses its own forces before its Word forces. Exactly. That's why I consider it would have to be a _worse_ experience than losing a Force. It's something that takes the effort of those who _give_ Words, not something that happens in battle... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:33:06 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Recovered Remnants At 1:20 AM -0500 4/14/02, Prodigal wrote: >From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" >> >> But I think that pretty much qualifies the situation as a "possibility" > >Thor is only restored to any semblance of his original self when the hammer >a number of his forces are bound to is returned to him. Thor, IIRC, wasn't a Remnant. He lost his _Ethereal_ Forces, not his Celestial ones. You're thinking of Tancred (or whatever his name was), the Purity Remnant chasing after him. Thor gets better with his hammer because, well, Ethereal Forces are as repairable as a GM feels they should be. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:49:11 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> A few unrelated questions As a note, you might want to check out the archived reviews at www.rpg.net -- you're asking a lot of questions which are actually answered there. [...] > What I wanted >to ask was whether [the IPG] has A) a detailed psychology >section, like the APG; Yes. >B) a section describing the >Princes' manner in meetings, like the APG, Yes. >and C) >if it has any expanded resonances, and what they're >like detail-wise in contrast with the APG. Off the top of my head and not looking at the book... Calabim get a check digit table (_one_ CD table, and their original resonance doesn't depend on it anyway), to try to do _subtle_ damage. Shedim get a way to "ooze" without having to go celestial every time they take over a new host. Lilim get to sense specific Needs, bind knowing people to promises, and something else I'm blanking on. O:> Specific Needs range from obvious ones to non-obvious ones -- the -2 is for an obvious one. Habbalah get some rules for sensing emotions, which I think the main book alludes to, but doesn't go into. This vestage of their Elohite nature helps them believe they're demons. O:> Balseraphs get to build on their lies to extend the duration. Impudites get to build up networks of Essence-sources. Djinn get something related to extending the duration of attunements, which I forget the exact mechanics of at this time. (Note that we tried to cram all the _good_ modifications into GIN; Ofanim get corporeal speed, Cherubim get Nemisis, and some of the IPG stuff found a home. It was hard. We were using a shoehorn there.) >3. Fall of the Malakim. From what I've heard, it's to >be avoided as a book, especially for me since I can't >stand linear adventures. But I've also heard that it >has rules expansions that are _really necessary_ to >run the Lilim, as the current main-book rules seem >a little, well, off. (Compose 6 Geas/1 into 1 Geas/6? >I don't think so!) Are these rules reprinted else- >where, and if not how essential are they? Check out the sample text for FotM -- some of that is actually there. >4. Speaking of Malakim and the APG, the one lone detail >that struck me as really off about that book was the >"judging people by their own standards" thing in the >Malakim writeup. That's on the chopping block. The person who put it in there made a case for it in email that was not bourne out in the actual treatment. If I recall correctly (it was years ago), the premise was that Malakim respect honor even if they don't agree with it, and are therefore likely to cut a little "slack" (i.e., not smite immediately) if they sense someone _has_ honor of some kind. (This is why they hate Balseraphs, who change their minds umptyzillion times, and only have honor when it's convenient.) The execution, and especially the Hitler example, did not convey this well. O:p >5. In terms of getting a grasp on the actual world (as >opposed to base setting info) of In Nomine -- that is, >important named NPC's, geographical detail on different >cities, etc.), which book is better: You are Here or >the Liber Castellorum? Which has the most canonical >information and details about the details of the war, >what's going on where, who controls what cities and >so forth? To use another referance, which of these books >most accurately maps to being "_A World of Darkness_" >for In Nomine? And which comes the highest recommended. The Liber Castellorum is half "how you make a Tether" and half thumbnails of a "Strong, Unusual, and Generic" Tether for each major Superior. (There's also a handful of adventure seeds.) The Strong and Unusual Tethers are almost always placed specifically in the world. The Generic one is a 'drop anywhere' Tether. You Are Here is full of basically generic corporeal locations, which can be used in just about any location. The ethereal and celestial locations, on the other hand, are places I consider canonical unless someone shows me that they're seriously broken and I agree with the assessment. City-control is basically, well, not an issue that's come up. There's some stuff in Night Music and FotM about who controls what, but otherwise it's up to the GM. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2602 ********************************