in_nomine-digest Tuesday, April 16 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2605 In this digest: Re: IN> sigh... Re: IN> IN:Wild West Re: IN> Cowboys and INjuns was: Re:Historical Re: IN> Historical IN> Adeste, Ludores Re: IN> A few unrelated questions IN> Second star to the right, and straight on until morning Re: IN> Wild West Re: IN> Second star to the right, and straight on until morning IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2604 Re: IN> sigh... IN> Words of Dubious Worth IN> Laurence and the Pope RE: IN> A few unrelated questions RE: IN> Force Stripping IN> Lets go be evil Re: IN> Laurence and the Pope Re: IN> Laurence and the Pope Re: IN> Lets go be evil Re: IN> Laurence and the Pope Re: IN> Laurence and the Pope Re: IN> Laurence and the Pope Re: IN> Laurence and the Pope Re: IN> Laurence and the Pope Re: IN> Laurence and the Pope Re: IN> Laurence and the Pope Re: IN> Second star to the right, and straight on until morning Re: IN> Lets go be evil Re: IN> Laurence and the Pope RE: IN> Weird thoughts IN> Beth, of Many Words (RE: Historical) Re: IN> Cowboys and INjuns was: Re:Historical ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 19:40:21 -0700 From: "Patrick None" Subject: Re: IN> sigh... > At 2:49 AM -0700 4/14/02, Patrick None wrote: > > I'm sure this comes up all the time, but does anyone have a Nephilim > >write - up that isn't Nephilim as Fallen Grigori? > > The In Nomine Nephilim _aren't_ Fallen Grigori. They're what happens > when a celestial-human crossbreeding goes horribly wrong. Right, but there's a writeup in the Collection of them as Fallen Grigori:( Somewhere. >See the > Corporeal Player's Guide. O:> > Yay! Thanks, I will. > > --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor > Patrick "Oh, this is so unexpected! I don't know who to thank! Well, God of course...and Satan!" -Stewie, Family Guy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 20:04:01 -0700 From: "Patrick None" Subject: Re: IN> IN:Wild West > > > Unknown Armies. But by the end of the session, everyone wishes it couldn't > > be. > > Funny you should mention that... my game last night was an IN/UA crossover. > It actually had Moe cowering in the corner. I suspect he was dong that more > to mollify me than out of horror, but still... > > -- Casca Ehhh! Can we get more detail? Specifically, what In Nomine elements did you bring in? IN is very human centered, but the emphasis is on playing Angels or Demons. Even though they may not effect humanity as much as Vampires in WoD, they are non-human things around which a lot of the world revolves. Where, Unknown Armies is very much a game where humanity, and human enemies and allies, are at the core of just about everything. Not to be jumpy; I'm just interested:) Patrick ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 20:10:30 -0700 From: "Patrick None" Subject: Re: IN> Cowboys and INjuns was: Re:Historical > --- Patrick None wrote: > > Shouldn't the sheriff be black? > > The first black sheriff? > > "A Blackwing Sherriff?!?" > > "Hey, it worked in 'Blazing Seraphim'..." I suppose I deserved that... On a less Weird West note, does anyone have any interesting notes about the Chinese labor camps in early California? Thanks, Much-posting Patrick ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 18:12:21 -0700 From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: IN> Historical I don't suppose anyone's mentioned Jan the Engineer? We're not really sure if he's a "resident" of Symphony or not, but boy does he make a lot of noise driving that locomotive into town and out of it... Never stays for very long, and likes shaking up folks while he's here. Personally I don't believe them rumors of his thieving ways, since he's always been a gentlemen when he visits. Tony Z - -- "The King with half the East at heel is marched from lands of morning; His fighters drink the rivers up, their shafts benight the air, And he that stays will die for naught, and home there's no returning." The Spartans on the sea-wet rock sat down and combed their hair.--A.E. Housman ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 03:10:58 -0000 From: "Chris Anthony" Subject: IN> Adeste, Ludores Two parts, this time. (Just 8k, too!) - -EDG - -- Gabriel was barely audible over the din of the restaurant - these people weren't being cruel, but they had no class at all - but Dominic could still make out her words, barely, as he pulled at a banana shake. "I think this is going to work out," she said, smiling. Dominic treasured that; it was rare that anybody smiled anymore, and it was nice to see Gabriel in a good mood. "I'm sure I would have been notified if any difficulties had arisen," he replied, and took another gulp of the yellow concoction. "In any event, at last count we're up by five, so I don't think anybody upstairs is going to complain much if the pace slows. I know I won't." She looked quizzical. "I'm sure you're starting to feel the backlash. It's like a billion rubber bands suddenly snapped back into place - for every vacant Word. Tethers all over the world are starting to feel the effects. I understand that one of Saminga's actually exploded when his Forces dissolved." Gabriel stifled a laugh. "Where do you get your numbers, though?" she asked in a musical voice. "Mine say three. We have Vapula and Nybbas - I'm sorry, Siyachel - but I'm told that Hell has two new Princes as well." Dominic's eyes widened. "What two?" he asked, his voice hollow. "We know about Mariel," replied Gabriel. "The other... opposes me. But I don't know how, yet." She sighed, and took a great bite out of a complimentary breadstick. "My information network is not as thorough as some." Judgment nodded. "I understand. Don't worry. My agents will get to the bottom of this." He reached over and took Gabriel's hand. "You won't be harmed, I swear it." Gabriel smiled. "I hope not." She took a bill out of her pocket, dropped it on the table without looking at it. "It's enough," she assured Dominic. "Go on. I know you have things to do." He smiled gratefully and headed for the bathroom; a moment later, a gong sounded in Gabriel's ears and he was gone. She leaned back, regarding the table before her. Dominic's meal was fastidiously tidy; she could spy no indication, other than a light shine on the ceramic, that there had ever been lobster bisque in the bowl, and all of the bread crumbs had managed to land directly in his napkin, which was folded neatly by his place on the table. Hers, by contrast, was a mess - but then, what could you expect from king crab? She wiped a dot of vinegar from her sash and turned to stand when a tall man in a business suit she recognized stepped up to her chair. "Long time, babe," said a deep, gravelly voice, and Gabriel knew instantly who it was without looking up. "How's life treatin' ya? Min' if I sit down? No? Good. Nice t'ing you have goin' on with Eyes dere, huh? Glad yer enjoyin' yerself." His accent always thickened when he was upset by something. "Look, I got somethin' I gotta say, an' den I'm gonna let you 'lone, okay? I 'preciate that yer gett'n' back inna da fold, but ya coulda leas' tol' me. Now I look like an idiot fer messin' wit' his Tedders, ya know?" Gabriel reached over the table and lay her hand on Belial's. "Bee... do you remember what love feels like?" Belial coughed. "Sure I do, babe. An', God, I don' wanna soun' like a jerk, but you coulda picked someone better for yer sanity, y'know?" Gabriel laughed and stood up. "Thanks for your concern, Bee. I'll be okay. And you don't look like an idiot. I have to run - take it easy? Okay." Belial tried to catch the breath caught in his throat before she left, but by the time he'd finished choking it was too late. He slumped, dejected, into the seat. "Someone like *me*," he muttered. - -- "This has all gone wrong," said one Djinn irritably. "We lost Nybbas before I even knew who he was, and Vapula not a day later. I let the Glutton do all the work, and when I try to help, he leaves for a week!" She shook her head. "It's more than I can bear." "More beer?" asked the other, hopefully, holding out a mug. "What for? Nothing helps," the first whined. "For all I know he's been out in the Forest of Allusion for the last week, bribing Alaemon with He-knows-what to keep his location secret." "Haven't you checked his Heart?" The first Djinn glared at the second. "I don't even know where he keeps the accursed thing. For all I know, it's hidden in the Forest too. Look, Zapan, all I know is that Haagenti's gone missing for six days, which - I think - is longer than anyone's been gone without being dead. I don't like this one bit; Haagenti's the lynchpin that's holding everything together. Well - him and my dagger. Without *that*, we wouldn't be in the position we're in now." Zapan frowned. "Forgive me for being so bold, but wouldn't you have an attachment to the dagger?" Mariel laughed bitterly. "No! Isn't it grand? Haagenti told me he'd never be out of sight, so I didn't have to worry about it! Idiot that I was. Now I can't find him, I can't find the dagger, and the whole accursed plan is dying faster than Saminga! I should have chosen a patsy that wouldn't run off." >From the door to the Leroy Brown came the sound of a man clearing his throat. Both Djinn looked over at once, and nearly jumped; Haagenti stood in the doorway, arms folded, a grim look on his face. "Patsy, eh?" Mariel stared for a moment. "Ha-ha-Haagenti! What a pleasure it-" "Hush, Mariel. There is no need to explain. In a game like this, everybody thinks they're playing everybody else. Zapan, for instance, has this grand idea about the two of you being together, forever, the cold of your oblivion freezing anything that passes through those damned Gates." He laughed. "As if the two of you could wrest power from the Nemesis." Zapan sneered. "The Nemesis grows weaker by the day. He does nothing but write in that book, taking no interest in the affairs of Hell. What should he care if we freeze it over?" Haagenti laughed. "I should think that he would be rather displeased. After all, this has been his home for uncounted years. Why should he want it violated so?" "Didn't you hear?" Zapan was almost shouting. "He isn't paying attention! Too distracted by his precious book. He'll never even know the difference." Mariel could see Zapan's eyes changing. "Steady, Zapan, this way is madness," she cooed. "Never!" The Prince of Ice took a deep breath. "I am cool. I am focused, not a madman, like some here. I am a glacier. A glacier that will roll over Hell, razing it, reforming it in our image!" "You leave me no choice," murmured Haagenti, plucking Mariel's dagger from its sheath beneath his cloak. "If you've chosen to oppose my order..." Zapan's eyes widened. "You wouldn't," he whispered. Haagenti grinned nastily. "And with a fresh application of the alkephage," he said, advancing. "Shall we dance?" Zapan fell to the floor, cowering. "No," he said. "I will not challenge you." "Offer me your allegiance." "Yes." Zapan was shaking. "Offer me your life." "I am yours to command, O Haagenti." "Offer me everything." Haagenti's eyes were dark with a fury beyond imagination. "Anything I can give." Haagenti whipped his head around, glaring at Mariel, his eyes boring into her soul. "I want my brother back," he whispered, and turned, stalking out of the room. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 05:16:25 +0000 From: "Jonathan Walton" Subject: Re: IN> A few unrelated questions Beth covered the others but... Personally, I'd hartily recommend Liber Castorellum (sp?), since it's one of my favorites, and develops a part of the IN cosmology that's not really covered anywhere else. But then again, I play with the Eden Ban most of the time, so Tethers tend to be more important in my campaigns. Still, since the example tethers are spread all over the world, they do provide a kind of "WoD"-esque overview of some of the more important locations, at least Corporeally. If you want Celestial and Ethereal locations, you're going to have to go with You Are Here. Later. Jonathan _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:18:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Second star to the right, and straight on until morning Did you ever look up to watch the clouds? That's a rhetorical question, of course: most people have, especially when it comes to those really thick cumulus clouds that drift against the sky, ponderously yet majestically. You can't help looking, really. Kids do it all the time, to look for faces or shapes: more adults than one would think do it, too, when they think nobody's watching. It's just that the clouds look so blessed solid, even when you know that they're just water vapor that's decided to be communal. You'd think that you could stand on those clouds and get the view of your life. The racial memory of humans never ceases to impress angels. Rudders These artifacts, despite the name, resemble nothing more than a large ship's sailing wheel mounted upon a long pole. When activated, they have the ability to make cloud-stuff solid - more or less. Each level of the artifact will allow a cloud to support up to half a ton of ... well, the word doesn't translate well into English. Suffice it to say that the material in question is what makes vessels and artifacts special: call it 'gossamer' and be done with it. Being more made of rougher clay, humans cannot thus normally avail themselves of this unique form of transportation... but those with Symphonic Awareness can see gossamer, and can even learn how to incorporate it into their bodies. In game terms, the ability to take advantage of Rudders (but not use them directly) is an 'Attunement' worth 5 points. Rudders not only stabilize cloud-stuff: they can direct it, as well. This mostly allows the riders to use the prevailing winds to best effect, but a skilled user may tack and sail on the many cross breezes that layer the atmosphere. Pilot (Cloud-ship) defaults to Perception -4: a successful use allows for three-dimensional changes equal to (CD) degrees. Multiple Rudders may be used for finer control: add all CDs together for the angle change, but the main Piloting roll is at -1 for every two extra Rudders. Cost: 12 per level. Any artifact may be given the Feature: "can be mounted on cloud-stuff" for 5 points. Essence Cost and Disturbance: none. Apparently, even the Symphony can have its fancy struck. Rudders can't be used anymore, alas; humans can now journey above the clouds, which makes hiding the artifacts ... problematical. But they had their day, once. Before the Fall, Heaven used them to create vast fleets of cloud ships, wandering the globe to safely observe and rejoice in the infinite complexity of the Creation below them. It is not for nothing that humanity has traditionally placed angels as dwelling on clouds. After the First Incursion, well, the cloud ships were no longer entirely safe for idle pleasures - but they could be used for more martial tasks. The wars in the skies were epic in their scope: entire weather fronts would be one vast battleground as Heaven and Hell met and did battle for the souls of humanity. It is also not for nothing that humans shiver at thunder. At its peak, the Meeting of Sea and Sky was one of the busiest Guilds in Heaven. Run jointly by Servitors of Wind and the Waters, the scene inside was invariably one of barely controlled chaos, as hundreds of angels busily coordinated armadas of research and war above six continents. It was a point of pride for the Meeting's sky captains to come periodically to talk of the latest voyage, compare battles and drop off mementos of their journeys on Earth (and, for the more daring ones, the Marches). Today, the physical Guildhall still exists, but much reduced. The atmosphere there today is about as close to somber as one can get in Heaven: while there is still a small amount of travel in the Ethereal plane, the glory days are behind the Meeting. Many of the captains still visit, though, and will tell their stories to any that would listen. Indeed, it seems sometimes that they seem to be waiting for something. Perhaps for a time when man will not be looking up at the clouds - or at least not be surprised to see armed angels sailing them... Perhaps. ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/13/02(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:06:03 +0800 From: Manny Nepomuceno Subject: Re: IN> Wild West Hey, >And Stinky Dave can be the crazy old prospector. I had him in mind as the local blacksmith, but that's just me :) ;) Manny Neps http://www.geocities.com/angeloffools ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:08:13 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Second star to the right, and straight on until morning He he hee... Anyone get the image of Janus wearing a very ornamental admiral's uniform while piloting at the forefront of a cloud armada? Josh ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:16:22 -0400 From: "Jeremy Smith" Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2604 Thanks for the campaign ideas. I actually seriously considered setting it in the time of the Black Death (would be especially interesting given all the research coming out now saying that the Black Death was probably NOT caused by the bubonic plague). However, I opted for more of a time of political unrest, crusades, and knights instead. As for the apocalypse, I meant that it didn't actually happen in the 13th century. However, many people believed that it was iminent in that time (Symbolic Apocalypsism was becoming especially popular), and I don't see why that can't include a few angels and demons. Calling your political opponents the Beast or the anti-christ was an accepted practice in those days. And thanks for the tips on the firearms. I actually have Vapula as a fairly low worded (Alchemy) servitor of Kronos, basically serving as a demon in the sorcery structure. A demon of gunpowder would be good though. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 14:08:35 From: "Michael Cleveland" Subject: Re: IN> sigh... > > I'm sure this comes up all the time, but does anyone have a Nephilim >write - up that isn't Nephilim as Fallen Grigori? > On a tangent, preferably Nephilim who are "alternate" - such as >technology >Nephilim, created via as alternate a method as technology Zombies? > Thanks, > Patrick http://www.blackivorytower.com/~firefly/neph.htm This one came out of a campaign that was an In Nomine - Call of Cthulhu crossover. Might work for you. Hope you like Michael _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:28:06 -0400 From: "Brian C. Petery" Subject: IN> Words of Dubious Worth >There has to be a Demon who sits around >and promotes the newest toy craze each year. Rex, The Demon of Cool, Balseraph Baron of the Media. Works for Nybbas. Can be found in the scenario "A Very Nybbas Christmas, Part 1." http://www.sjgames.com/pyramid/sample.cgi?139 (Evil! EVIL!!!) Also, Wahtsi, Impudite Knight of the Media (Nybbas), Demon of Collectible Card Games http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/INChar/Demons/Impudite.Wahtsi.html Yours in Triviality, BC Petery http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:39:19 -0400 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: IN> Laurence and the Pope One of the biggest events rocking the Catholic Church in the past year or so (aside from the abuse charges) is the fact that people are already getting ready to select Pope Jean Paul II's successor. There are currently two major factions selecting candidates. The first is the conservative faction, which likes the Catholic Church the way it is. The other is a more reformist faction which believes the Church should now allow women priests and for all priests to marry if it is their choice. Pope Jean Paul II is of the conservative faction. Now, with the charges of child abuse being raised against some catholic clergy members (which, to be honest, is something the Catholics have always been accused of by detractors) has raised questions about the marital status of priests. If they were allowed to wed, would these kinds of events still happen? Now, in Superiors 1, in Laurence's expanded write-up, it's said that Laurence is pleased with Jean Paul II's works as a pope. That, and the fact he's been a Catholic supporter since the middle ages, might make him come off as more conservative then reformist. On the other hand, he once inspired Luther to question Catholic authority, in an attempt to create positive reforms when he felt the church had become corrupted. With the hightened intelligence of a Superior and a more generalized view of the war between Heaven and Hell, would he try to help the Church preserve it's conservative values in the face of a rapidly changing world, or recognize that the church needs to reflect Chrisitan morality with a more modern attitude, and hence support the Reformists? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:42:22 -0400 From: "Brian C. Petery" Subject: RE: IN> A few unrelated questions >From: Julian Mensch >Subject: IN> A few unrelated questions >Compose 6 Geas/1 into 1 Geas/6? >I don't think so! You better believe it. IN p.149, paragraph 1. "Favors are cumulative. If a person owes a Lilim two Geas/3 favors, she may call them both in at once, resulting in one Geas/6 favor!" Wee! I'm a Rules Lawyer! BC Petery http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:07:00 -0400 From: "Brian C. Petery" Subject: RE: IN> Force Stripping >The idea presented was "If" we strip our Forces then "maybe" God will love >us like he does them. Hey! What happens to all those stripped Forces? I've got a few characters who'd like to be on the "Force Disposal Crew." Now all we need is a Balseraph of Lust to make it fun... Indeed, the FDC might be the people encouraging the belief that Force stripping will bring you closer to God. Yours in Fear and Loathing, BC Petery http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:11:53 -0400 From: "Brian C. Petery" Subject: IN> Lets go be evil >>I do still feel strongly that a discouragement of the "Lets go be evil" >>style of play is necessary. I've seen it crop up in games before and I >>feel >>it's effect ruined several White Wolf products for me. >May I heartily agree with this -- and *my* bad experiences with it were with >my first IN game, where the players were supposed to be *angels ...* Tell your players "If you want to be a jerk you have to design a new character who is a jerk." Of course, that can encourage munchkinism. Help! I'm typing and I can't logoff! BC Petery http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:11:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Laurence and the Pope - --- Rolland Therrien wrote: > > With the hightened intelligence of a Superior and a more > generalized view of > the war between Heaven and Hell, would he try to help the > Church preserve > it's conservative values in the face of a rapidly > changing world, or > recognize that the church needs to reflect Chrisitan > morality with a more > modern attitude, and hence support the Reformists? I suspect that he'd be with the Reformists; making Earth more like Heaven is something that I can't see Laurence disapproving of, and Heaven allows angels to have relationships (not to mention relations) with each other. ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 "In film, the director is God. In documentaries, God is the director." - -- Alfred Hitchcock __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:26:36 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Laurence and the Pope Perhaps Laurence would not favor either side, but would encourage both sides to proceed with honor -- with fairness and honesty and a steadfast effor to discern the will of God. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 15:27:59 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Lets go be evil >From: "Brian C. Petery" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: In Nomine >Subject: IN> Lets go be evil >Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:11:53 -0400 >Tell your players "If you want to be a jerk you have to design a new >character who is a jerk." > >Of course, that can encourage munchkinism. I have had a recent success with getting good performance out of a player who usually doesn't play well with others. In the past four out of five games, his character was the broody loner with zero team spirit (and in neutral-to-evil games, the most dedicated backstabber.) So when my latest campaign (it's GURPS "Quantum Leap meets the Matrix meets Flight 13", for a capsule description) started I told everyone "submit a one-paragraph description of what you want your character to be", and then I took their wish lists and made all the characters myself. And the guy who habitually plays the broody loner got a broody loner -- with a sense of duty, as well as a couple of plot hooks inserted into his backstory that made some connections between him and the rest of the team. Gratifyingly enough, he role-played the character as written quite well. And the rest of the team had no problems either, because while nobody got stuck with a character that they hadn't ordered, enough minor nips and tucks were made in the process so that a) the team's abilities and capabilities synergized like greased gears and b) nobody could hope to get the job done, or even survive the main opposition, alone. While the only person who really knows what they want to roleplay is the player, the only person who really knows what the campaign can and cannot survive having in it is the DM. So the challenge was to find a method of character generation that combines the both. "Player requests, DM builds to order with tweaks" seemed to work all right. Of course, it is a) a lot of extra work and b) leaves the DM option to future accusations of "You set me up to die!", so I won't say that this method is for everyone. Heck, I'm still in the middle of proving whether or not it works, we've only had four sessions so far. But it is a suggestion. - -- Chuckg _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 15:32:32 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Laurence and the Pope >From: Earl Wajenberg >Subject: Re: IN> Laurence and the Pope >Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:26:36 -0500 >Perhaps Laurence would not favor either side, but would encourage >both sides to proceed with honor -- with fairness and honesty and >a steadfast effor to discern the will of God. If Laurence believes in 'ex cathedra', then he'd definitely fly this one "hands-off" -- it's not the Archangel of the Sword's place to take a man who is inspired by the Holy Spirit and try to influence the decision-making process around him. Of course, using resonance pings to detect dishonorable behavior and prevent it from also trying to influence the decision-making process is entirely all right, no? (Let's not also forget Dominic's finger in this particular pie - -- he's juuuuuuust about as Catholic as Laurence is.) And I pity the Servitor of Factions who even tries to go *near* this one. And you know that they're trying. - -- Chuckg _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:53:09 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Laurence and the Pope (Let's not also forget Dominic's finger in this particular pie >-- he's juuuuuuust about as Catholic as Laurence is.) I'm not sure how canon that is. Wasn't it said in the GM's guide that Dominic favors Catholicisim not so much because of the religious aspects, as the fact that it's so well organized? Josh ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:01:26 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Laurence and the Pope Charles Glasgow wrote: > (Let's not also forget Dominic's finger in > this particular pie -- he's juuuuuuust about as Catholic as Laurence is.) Not really. Dominic is a monotheist who believes the RCC is the best vehicle to bring Godliness to humanity. His personal theological beliefs are pretty much pure Old Testament. Laurence, OTOH, is a devout Catholic personally and politically. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:14:46 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Laurence and the Pope >From: David Edelstein >Subject: Re: IN> Laurence and the Pope >Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:01:26 -0500 >Not really. Dominic is a monotheist who believes the RCC is the best >vehicle to bring Godliness to humanity. His personal theological beliefs >are pretty much pure Old Testament. Laurence, OTOH, is a devout Catholic >personally and politically. I stand corrected. Thank you. OTOH, I'd still hate to be the Servitor of Factions assigned to the Vatican detail... I'm sure Judgement is giving the Sword all the assistance it needs re: the counter-subversion efforts. - -- Chuckg _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:28:27 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Laurence and the Pope Charles Glasgow wrote: > OTOH, I'd still hate to be the Servitor of Factions assigned to the > Vatican detail... I'm sure Judgement is giving the Sword all the > assistance it needs re: the counter-subversion efforts. No doubt, though just the fact that the Vatican is one of the most important places on Earth to the Archangel of the Sword is reason enough to make most demons cringe at the thought of going there. But I doubt Malphas spends much energy trying to infiltrate the Vatican itself. Looks like Andrealphus has been doing more damage to the Church lately, and he didn't need to go anywhere near Rome. - -David (too bad "a Demon Prince made us do it" doesn't work in the real world) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 12:41:34 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Laurence and the Pope >Charles Glasgow wrote: > >> OTOH, I'd still hate to be the Servitor of Factions assigned to the >> Vatican detail... I'm sure Judgement is giving the Sword all the >> assistance it needs re: the counter-subversion efforts. > >No doubt, though just the fact that the Vatican is one of the most >important places on Earth to the Archangel of the Sword is reason enough >to make most demons cringe at the thought of going there. > >But I doubt Malphas spends much energy trying to infiltrate the Vatican >itself. Looks like Andrealphus has been doing more damage to the Church >lately, and he didn't need to go anywhere near Rome. >-David (too bad "a Demon Prince made us do it" doesn't work in the real >world) Hmmm... Keeping people from being able to claim shedite possession might be another good reason to keep the War secret. Josh ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 17:08:39 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Laurence and the Pope >From: "Josh Moger" >Subject: Re: IN> Laurence and the Pope >Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 12:41:34 -0400 >Hmmm... Keeping people from being able to claim shedite possession might be >another good reason to keep the War secret. Cookie! Cookie! - -- Chuckg _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:19:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Second star to the right, and straight on until morning Too, too cool. I can't see Blandine abandoning these for use in the Marches. ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 "In film, the director is God. In documentaries, God is the director." - -- Alfred Hitchcock __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:24:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Lets go be evil - --- Charles Glasgow wrote: > While the only person who really knows what they want to > roleplay is the > player, the only person who really knows what the > campaign can and cannot > survive having in it is the DM. So the challenge was to > find a method of > character generation that combines the both. "Player > requests, DM builds to > order with tweaks" seemed to work all right. I've had more success with letting the players tell me what they wanted and saying "yes" or "no" based on what I saw that concept doing to the campaign. Saves me a lot of work, it does. ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 "In film, the director is God. In documentaries, God is the director." - -- Alfred Hitchcock __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:59:12 -0400 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: Re: IN> Laurence and the Pope > Now, with the charges of child abuse being raised against some catholic > clergy members (which, to be honest, is something the Catholics have always > been accused of by detractors) I hope that you are not implying that the only reason these priests are being accused of raping children is because of detractors. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:46:55 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: RE: IN> Weird thoughts At 6:09 PM -0500 4/15/02, Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW) wrote: >My point was, either way it's not the sort of thing your average Demonic >personality type would consider without some direct and immediately >recognizable benefit. Average, no. But then, there are enough demons around that even an "out there" lunatic fringe can seem big enough to be... well, something greater than just a _few_ loons. (And in the initial premise, it was mostly the First Fallen who were members of this particular loony fringe -- it could be argued that, having changed state once (Falling isn't entirely pleasant either), they'd be both more amenable to lunacy, and more desperate to regain What They Had Before Only Without Having To Say I'm Sorry.) >That's all I ever meant to say in this debate. My personal opinion that >Remnanthood is a recoverable state is obviously against the general opinion, I'm sorry, but it's against CANON. I'm the Line Editor. I get to say things like that. Remnants are Walking Dead, just like zombis. Unlike zombis (probably), you can use the bits to create a NEW celestial which will have _some_ memories of being a celestial. The only way around that is an appropriate Intervention, which MIGHT AT THE GM'S OPTION actually return the Remnant to its original state. >but I still say Mira (who is possibly repairable in Final Trumpet) is hoped >to be able to give the PCs clues and does have hazy memories of the >incidents surrounding her near destruction. She has an Ethereal Force from Mira I, which has some memories on it. She is not the same being. > Thor is called a "Remnant" in >No Deneiro, Ethereal or otherwise, He shouldn't be. I can't find where he's called that. TANCRED, the Purity Servitor who is stalking him, IS a Remnant, but Thor isn't. If you find a page ref for calling Thor a Remnant, please tell me, so I can errata it. >[...] I like it as a possibility. Oh, that's fine. It's even perfectly good for your own campaigns, but it's not canon. (I've been known to play kick the canon myself a time or two, but I like people to be clear on what _is_ canon...) >the idea of a Remnant as a PC pretty much needs to involve his "road to >recovery" or the PC will have no progression, no evolution, no development >and be thus a fairly uninteresting character. Remnants are not generally good characters... O:> Former Remnants, who remember, say, their Role-life (post Remnant-hood), are perfectly good characters. >I do still feel strongly that a discouragement of the "Lets go be evil" >style of play is necessary. Depends on the group. Around here, it tends to sink to the level of "Let's be obnoxious" and that's about the worst it gets. Though I'm sure that the NPC demons we've messed with have other ideas... (The Kyrio of Lightning has some fondness for driving demons' cars into large bodies of water.) - --Elizabeth McCoy, In Nomine Line Editor (arcangel@io.com) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:50:38 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Beth, of Many Words (RE: Historical) At 6:18 PM -0500 4/15/02, Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW) wrote: >I don't know the List Beth well enough to make such an assessment. I was >basing it off the Tattered Universe Beth of the Library, which if I >understand everything is a wry nod at List Beth, but I won't make claims on >other people's works. Wry nod? _Wry Nod_? *SNIFFLE* I wrote it myself! (Once Moe said I ought to.) >If there is a canonical Beth of Archives, I haven't seen that sourcebook, On the INC. Both the Archangel and the Princess. Not canonical. - --Beth, Archangel of Archives http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/INChar/Angels/Arcangel.Beth.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:54:46 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Cowboys and INjuns was: Re:Historical At 8:10 PM -0700 4/15/02, Patrick None wrote: > On a less Weird West note, does anyone have any interesting notes about the >Chinese labor camps in early California? Hrm. My best suggestion would be to... A: google for it (www.google.com) B: Grab GURPS Old West C: Mine the bibliography of the above (I'm sure it's got a bibli...) D (or B, depending): Check the library? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2605 ********************************