in_nomine-digest Thursday, April 18 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2608 In this digest: IN> The Demon of Corporate Scandals Re: IN> Picking up trouble Re: IN> Can't find... Re: IN> What Jordi's been up to lately Re: IN> Picking up trouble IN> old topic? Re: IN> IN:Wild West (Part 2) RE: IN> Recovered Remnants Re: IN> A Gentle Touch RE: IN> A Gentle Touch IN> Laurence and the Pope Re: IN> Laurence and the Pope RE: IN> Recovered Remnants Re: IN> Wild West Re: IN> Wild West Re: IN> IN:Wild West (Part 2) Re: IN> Wild West Re: IN> Wild West Re: IN> Wild West IN> Lilim Celestial appearance Re: IN> Lilim Celestial appearance Re: IN> Can't find... Re: IN> Lilim Celestial appearance Re: IN> Lilim Celestial appearance Re: IN> Lilim Celestial appearance IN> 20 Questions for Ex-demonling PC's. IN> Seneschal Question Re: IN> Lilim Celestial appearance Re: IN> Seneschal Question Re: IN> Seneschal Question IN> Iolanthe DP Opinions IN> I Took The One Less Travelled By ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 21:58:40 -0700 From: edenesque@juno.com Subject: IN> The Demon of Corporate Scandals Confufixor Shedite Baron of the Vault Demon of Corporate Scandals Corporeal Forces: 2 Strength 2 Agility 2 Ethereal Forces 5 Intelligence: 12 Precision: 8 Celestial Forces: 5 Will: 12 Perception: 8 Songs: Empathy (Ethereal)/6, Charm (Celestial)/6, Attraction (Ethereal)/6, Machines (Ethereal)/6, Numinous Corpus (Acid/5, Claws/5, Barbs/4, Tentacles/5), Light (Celestial)/4 Shields (Ethereal, Celestial)/5, Deception (all)/4, Oblivion (Ethereal)/4, Healing (Celestial)/6. Attunements: Shedite of Secrets, Lucifer's Document Shredder, Seal of the Confessional, Baron of the Vault, Demon of Corporate Scandals. Demon of Corporate Scandals: Once a day, Confufixor may engage his host in a Contest of Wills. If he succeeds, his host either forgets or inconvienently confesses to one act of business-related crime (like suddenly confessing to a corporate crime at a press conference). History: Confufixor is a recent addition to the ranks of the Conspiracy, but he represents a major coup for the Prince of Secrets. Confufixor was a Shedite who fledged in Mammon's service in the 682 B.C. and spent centuries climbing his way through the ranks of Greed. Like other Mammonites, he firmly believed that greed was good and that nothing mattered but getting ever-more profits. Over the ages, Confufixor was a slow but steady riser, amassing a private fortune, several attunements and Songs, and even more forces. Though Mammon is a stingy Prince, Confufixor managed to earn up to twelve Forces in his service (starting from the basic seven). By the 12th Century, he had bought himself a Barony and by the 16th century he was a senior director of the Bank. Since the Acquisition was a joke back then, Confufixor was able to skim profits secretly for years, keeping his own fortune high while still enjoying power and wealth within the ranks of Greed. Then came the Crash of '29 and the Witch Hunts. Once the Acquisition began to crack down, Confufixor found himself in a spot. He took to drifting about in Shal-Mari and Stygia to avoid the Acquisition. In 1933, he went topside...and didn't come back down until the 21st century. Confufixor decided to make his own mission: corrupt the heads of the new corporations that were emerging, and use them to promote the principles of Greed, thus proving useful to Mammon still. This was a mixed blessing. Although he did good enough work to get Mammon to sponsor him for the Word of Corporate Scandals (it seemed that many of the corporate heads he rode over the years had a bad tendency to get themselves ousted in spectacularly bad examples of corruption and greed during or after he possessed them), Confufixor still did not feel safe from his Prince's audits. He began to secretly look for somewhere else to go to, to keep his profits. As is well-known, Alaemon is always on the look-out for new secrets to hold over his fellow Princes. Confufixor figured that the Conspiracy was the best place to hide out from Mammon and to keep his precious profits safe. Confufixor discreely let the word get around that a certain high-ranking demon was interested in switching Superiors. Sure enough, the Conspirators swarmed. A shattering of his Heart, a little fast-talking to Alaemon himself, and Confufixor was a Shedite of Secrets. As a slap in the face to Mammon, Confufixor was instated as a Baron of the Vault, with several attunements, a new Heart, and the granting of the Songs of Deception and Oblivion. Confufixor's recent notable success (the Enron debacle), has only further widened the rift between himself and his ex-boss. Some suspect that somewhere Lucifer is chuckling over Mammon's sudden reversal. Of course, the Acquisition is not amused.... Personality: Greedy as ever, Confufixor still lives by the principles of his former Word, but now he feels oddly more secure. With his belief that he can ditch the Acquisition in the Conspiracy, Confufixor now feels safe and secure enough to begin dreaming his dreams of greater heights, and perhaps even supplanting his former master. After all, Mammon is obviously on the outs. Perhaps its' time for a new Prince of Greed, one with an understanding of the darkness in the hearts of humankind... ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:16:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Picking up trouble - --- "Brian C. Petery" wrote: > Oh No! Tranced! He was stalking Thor! My character > (Free Lilim) now has > Thor's hammer! So what if she can barely lift it, > it's still the only part > of Thor still alive(?). (waving to third-party poster) Hey, Dave! I think I've found out where the bloody hammer is: Casca hid it in another campaign! (turning back) Umm... I don't suppose that we could borrow it for a little while? Just until my party's own private Armageddon's over? ;) Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/13/02(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:26:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Can't find... - --- Jim Burzelic wrote: > Also, could someone explain to me the whole > "Consider..." line of stuff in the INC? I get what > it > is, but when did it start and what spurned it on? Well, IIRC I spawned the original thing, but I didn't really mean to. 'Consider Ivy' was just supposed to be a weird little take on Novy for people who wanted someone else besides the usual suspects for their hidden spymistress. After that, it went spontaneous: the conceit was apparently deemed useful as a method of getting a handle on the personality of particular Superiors (and others). I think that we covered them all, eventually. Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/13/02(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:34:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> What Jordi's been up to lately - --- Eric Bertish wrote: > http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/04/15/super.antcolonies.ap/index.html > > This sort of thing makes me wonder just how many > animals Jordi could possess > at one time, given both his Kyrio attunement and the > sheer number of Forces > he has.... Two answers: #1 (Silly) I believe that the technical phrase is 'a sh*tload'.* 2# (Possibly frightening) Well, if we just go with swarms of bugs... all of them. Yup, that means that every time that you stepped on an ant, you've stepped on the Archangel of Animals. No wonder he's so annoyed with humanity. Moe *I dunno if that /could/ be codified better. Maybe every animal within a half a mile radius of his earthly manifestations? ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/13/02(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 23:33:37 -0600 From: "Wade Lahoda" Subject: Re: IN> Picking up trouble - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice Lane" > Umm... I don't suppose that we could borrow it for a > little while? Just until my party's own private > Armageddon's over? "Own private Armageddon"? I like that. It's sort of like "Your own personal Jesus." Hrm, there's something there. I just can't articulate it right now. =) A. Wade Lahoda ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 07:49:33 -0700 From: "Patrick None" Subject: IN> old topic? Again, I'm sure this has come up before - and I don't have the book of songs - but, is it possible to just use the celestial song of motion to fling opponents? For example, just teleport your foe UP? Does that count as 'somewhere the user has been' if its sixty feet above the street, or does the caster have to been on the EXACT spot they're teleporting things? Would a target such as a person count as being "held" and get a strength roll to resist? Thanks! Patrick ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 05:55:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> IN:Wild West (Part 2) The Savages? That'd be the folks out Marchton way, right? o;> ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 "In film, the director is God. In documentaries, God is the director." - -- Alfred Hitchcock __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 05:57:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: RE: IN> Recovered Remnants - --- thorrbjorn93 wrote: > Umm, most of Thor's active modern age worshipers > absolutely detest neo-nazis > (http://www.webcom.com/~lstead/nid.htm). I'll expand on > this slightly in private e-mail. By all means, elaborate. I'd like to hear about it. > And speaking of In Nomine ... Inspired by the section of > the GMG that > provides variations on the Canon for Protestant, > Catholic, Jewish and > Islamic oriented campaigns, I've been working on some > ideas for canon > variations which expand the role of polytheism. I'd like to see this, too. ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 "In film, the director is God. In documentaries, God is the director." - -- Alfred Hitchcock __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 06:00:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> A Gentle Touch I _love_ this. Thanks, I now have a plot seed for a convention demo (my last one didn't go off due to scheduling problems, but thanks anyway to all those who sent me angels and links to same). ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 "In film, the director is God. In documentaries, God is the director." - -- Alfred Hitchcock __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 07:35:28 -0500 From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" Subject: RE: IN> A Gentle Touch - -----Original Message----- From: William J. Keith [mailto:wjk150@email.psu.edu] Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 9:21 PM To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Subject: IN> A Gentle Touch Mark Douglas is a sculptor in, if you'll pardon the description, the heroic mold. You just reminded me of a line from a song. "His gentle ways of sculpting souls took me years to understand" >From "Leader of the Band" which I can't remember who did. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:23:14 -0400 From: "Brian C. Petery" Subject: IN> Laurence and the Pope > From: Josh Moger > Back to the drawing board. So don't put the demon in a role where he must answer questions. When taking down a repressive regime you send in spies as janitors. Torturers rarely clean up after themselves. The janitor literaly knows where all the bodies are buried. Or use a lilim. Give the man a hand and he walks away with a Geas. So what if a Celestial sees Discord. What are they going to do? * [Angel] "I am an angel of Dominic and that man is Discordant." [Humans] "Why don't you step this way. You can have a nice lie down." [Angel, assuming Celestial form] "I am an angel of Dominic and that man is Discordant." [Humans sing] "Hosanna! Hosanna! Hosanna!" Angel sighs and returns to human form. After a while things settle down. [Angel] "I am an angel of Dominic and that man is Discordant." [Humans] "I get the angel part, what's Discordant?" [Angel] "Uh... Out of tune with the Symphony." [Humans] "Symphony?" Angel sighs again and gives the long version. [Humans] "So he's Discordant, and the only form of Discord a human can pick up is a Geas from a Lilim." [Angel] "Right." [Humans] "So what do we do about it? How do we get the Geas off him so we can vote?" [Angel] "Uh..." * If the afflicted individual were not allowed to vote the Geas would dissipate. A Geas that becomes impossible to fulfill will vanish, causing a final note of dissonance/damage. However, sore losers will try to make as many people as possible believe it was an "illegitimate election." See the current U.S. president as an example. Yours in FNORD, BC Petery http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 14:42:34 +0000 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Laurence and the Pope >From: "Brian C. Petery" >Subject: IN> Laurence and the Pope >Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:23:14 -0400 >So don't put the demon in a role where he must answer questions. > >When taking down a repressive regime you send in spies as janitors. >Torturers rarely clean up after themselves. The janitor literaly knows >where all the bodies are buried. In the Vatican, said "bodies" are metaphorical and not literal. And besides, where you really clean up is using relievers and/or gremlins and Binding them into Vessel/1 -- Desk. (Or alternatively, Vessel/1 -- Desk Lamp, Vessel/1 -- Potted Plant, etc.) And then hit the office supply companies... >Or use a lilim. Give the man a hand and he walks away with a Geas. > >So what if a Celestial sees Discord. What are they going to do? Get him transferred? [snip] >[Angel] "I am an angel of Dominic and that man is Discordant." Actually, it's probably more like: [Angel] "I am an angel of Dominic and that man is Discordant. He appears to have been geased." [Soldier of God, who also happens to be in a senior post in Vatican internal security] -- "I'm on it." - -- Chuckg _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:32:41 -0600 From: Julian Mensch Subject: RE: IN> Recovered Remnants << > Umm, most of Thor's active modern age worshipers > absolutely detest neo-nazis > (http://www.webcom.com/~lstead/nid.htm). I'll expand on > this slightly in private e-mail. By all means, elaborate. I'd like to hear about it. >> www.religioustolerance.org is absolutely the best site in existance for researching anything religious, from fringe movements to mainstream Christian sects. Their page for Asatru is right here: http://www.religioustolerance.org/asatru.htm It has more clear and easily digestable information than anyone can summarize in a list-post. And unlike many sites run by Asatru followers, it gives an unbiased and remarkably free of new-age romanticism look at the religion. Overall, I think it's among the best Asatru intro sources on the web. In Nomine Content: The extent of accurate preservation of the "old ways" in RL Asatru (as opposed to more Hellenic or Gaelic varieties of paganism, which tend to be more heavily modernized) smacks of stronger etherial intervention by the Norse Pantheon in the IN world. They seem to tend and guide their worshippers more carefully than the Olympians or the Fae. One wonders why they're allowed to get away with this. Perhaps after Asatru was perverted to serve Nazi beliefs during WW2, they struck up some kind of pact with Heaven - -- make sure your followers stay on the straight and narrow, morally speaking, and we'll let you collect some Essence from them. Given the moral virtues Asatru claims to promote, I can certainly see a Bright version of David supporting them; Odin would get along remarkably well with Stone, all things considered. (All of this flies in the face of the writeups of Norse stuff in H&H, but to be blunt that portrayal does not appeal overly much to me.) - -- Julian Mensch ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 14:04:42 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Wild West > That's why the kids call 'im Sam Hate. Dang! I thought for sure that somebody would've gotten this reference. Hasn't anyone here ever played Werewolf: the Apocalypse? - -- Casca "Many people hear voices when no-one is there. Some of them are called mad and are shut up in rooms where they stare at the walls all day. Others are called writers and they do pretty much the same thing." --Margaret Chittenden, writer ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:30:58 -0600 From: "Wade Lahoda" Subject: Re: IN> Wild West - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Bertish" > > That's why the kids call 'im Sam Hate. > > Dang! I thought for sure that somebody would've gotten this reference. > Hasn't anyone here ever played Werewolf: the Apocalypse? See, I play a lot of Werewolf. And when I saw that, I thought to myself "Nah, can't be a refereance to that. No one would /dare/ bring up that on an In_Nomine listserver - must be an In Nomine referance I don't get." But you *were* refering to the Skinner? The most famous Kinfolk/Ghoul/Skindancer/Mage ever? Well, I don't think he'd be Saminga. He'd be the Balseraph of Kronos who has bought his attunement multiple times in order to get every Angelic resonance, and also got Asmodeus' Humanity attunement so he could go to earth and become a Soldier of Hell, and then convince Angels to make him a Soldier of God, and then smuggle a Heart up to heaven so he could die and go to heaven as a mortal soul, where he'd convince Laurence that he was actually a human soul so he could get sent back to earth as a saint, and then start a cult up around himself so he starts generating essence flow directly to himself because he's now become an Ethereal god. Then he'd get himself force stripped so he'd be a Remnant and immune to Perception-based resonances. Only then would he involve Saminga - to make him an Undead, making sure the extra Forces grafted on were Celestial so he'd have Will and Perception, but since he'd still be technically a Remnant, he'd still be off the Celestial radar.. Sam Hate just wouldn't be content in the In Nomine universe unless he were an Angel/Demon/Hellsworn/Soldier of God/Saint/Ethereal/Remnant/Mummy. I'm glad In Nomine doesn't get people who want to be 'crossbreeds' of different character types. I'm glad the metaphysics of the game make it doesn't even *occur* to people to make 'crossbreeds', never mind putting them into print. A. Wade Lahoda ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 11:46:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Burzelic Subject: Re: IN> IN:Wild West (Part 2) Right on. Jim - --- Michael Walton wrote: > The Savages? That'd be the folks out Marchton > way, > right? o;> > > ===== > Michael Walton, #US2002023848 > "In film, the director is God. In documentaries, > God is the director." > -- Alfred Hitchcock > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 14:47:28 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Wild West >> That's why the kids call 'im Sam Hate. > >Dang! I thought for sure that somebody would've gotten this reference. >Hasn't anyone here ever played Werewolf: the Apocalypse? > Read too much about, but not played. I thought you were making some sort of reference to Samhain. Josh ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 16:09:21 -0400 From: Eric Eves Subject: Re: IN> Wild West Eric Bertish wrote: > > > That's why the kids call 'im Sam Hate. > > Dang! I thought for sure that somebody would've gotten this reference. > Hasn't anyone here ever played Werewolf: the Apocalypse? *cough*-ashtray-*cough* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:49:09 -0700 From: "Marcus Evenstar" Subject: Re: IN> Wild West Wade Lahoda wrote about the IN: WW version of Sam Haight: [Starts as multi-attuned Balseraph of Kronos using Humanity to become both a Soldier of Hell and Heaven. Then it becomes more complex involving importing Hearts to Heaven and deceiving Laurence.] As noted elsewhere, Sam didn't survive the fourth cross-over with any kind of mobility. However, he is the only known ashtray with Sphere magicks; just a bit of Forces, Prime and Correspondence gives you an ashtray that lights your smoke and never needs cleaning. In this particular scenario, he was spotted when he asked about the saint job. Now he's the spittoon in the marshall's office. No-one's chaw ever misses hitting it, it doesn't smell foul and never needs cleaning. Laurence is pleased that he's finally found the right spot for him. Marcus "P' Ting!" Evenstar ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 16:54:29 -0400 From: "Brian C. Petery" Subject: IN> Lilim Celestial appearance I haven't seen this in the INC: It says in the IN rule book that the Celestial form of a Lilim looks like their corporeal form. But my Lilim has four human Vessels and a handful of vermin Vessels. Does this mean that when Lilith creates a Lilim she gives them a vessel and that's what they look like forever, or do they look like the last vessel they wore, or is it some weird amalgam of all their vessels? The first option seems the simplest, and the most simplistic. It also presents the question: What if you loose your last vessel and have to make a new one in limbo? Does it look like your C-form or does your C-form change? The second option would deeply annoy Asmodeus. Showing up in Hell looking like someone else would be a kind of Celestial disguise kit. The third option would please Kobal. I can imagine him giving Armadillo/6 vessels to Free Lilim who trade for favors. Help! I'm typing and I can't logoff! BC Petery http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 15:46:10 -0600 From: Timothy Groth Subject: Re: IN> Lilim Celestial appearance I think it says they look like their favorite vessel. IIRC that's how it is for Mercurians, Impudites, Malakim and Grigori as well. I also think celestial identification, especially for Superiors, isn't that dependent upon appearance (I assumed the celestial form descriptions were for terrified mortals cowering before glowing beings). Finally I'm sure there are all sorts of ways to disguise yourself in Hell, regardless of how identification is done. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 16:26:28 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Can't find... At 1:05 PM -0700 4/17/02, Jim Burzelic wrote: >--- Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> At 12:15 PM -0700 4/17/02, Jim Burzelic wrote: >> >What was the name of the Archangel of Song? >> >> There's no canon on that yet. > >Ah dangit! I was gonna use it in my next Wild West >thing. Shoot. So call her Song or Melody. O:> There's some not-quite-canon stuff about "Art, the Angel of Art, whose Word is his name" running around loose. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 18:12:25 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Lilim Celestial appearance At 4:54 PM -0400 4/18/02, Brian C. Petery wrote: >I haven't seen this in the INC: > >It says in the IN rule book that the Celestial form of a Lilim looks like >their corporeal form. But my Lilim has four human Vessels and a handful of >vermin Vessels. She chooses which vessel she wants to look like. "I'm Going To Hell" (prizewinning racehorse and Demon of Gambling Debts) has been known to appear in Hell as a green racehorse, with horns, and some Geases around her hooves and neck. Or so I'd generally say. O:> If you've lost _one_ of your vessels, it would be hard to use its form. If you've lost all your vessels, then either use the form of the last one you had, or the one you spent the most time in. Yes, Gamesters grind their teeth a lot. O:> - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. arcangel is nursing a trout with ARMS! ARMS that reach out and try to pound the keyboard! You say "And teeth. Ow." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 15:29:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Lilim Celestial appearance - --- Timothy Groth wrote: > I think it says they look like their favorite vessel. I remember something about green skin and horns, but otherwise that seems right. > I'm sure there are all sorts of ways to > disguise yourself in Hell, regardless of how > identification is done. I don't believe that there's any canonical way to disguise a Celestial form. If there were, there would be a way to hide Dissonance and Discord -- and you'd best believe that both Judgement and the Game would clamp down on that real quick. ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 "In film, the director is God. In documentaries, God is the director." - -- Alfred Hitchcock __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 18:32:59 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Lilim Celestial appearance > >--Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. >arcangel is nursing a trout with ARMS! ARMS that reach out and try to pound the keyboard! >You say "And teeth. Ow." > snip Which reminds me of a question I've been meaning to ask for a while now. I've seen two thing written about Iolanthe, Demon Princess of Cute, Moe's Superior gifts list and the very temporary bit on the Collection about the Iolanthe/Archangel opinions. Which brings the question to mind: Has there been a bit on Iolathe/Demon Prince opinons written yet, and if so, where could I possibly find it? Thanks, Josh ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 11:27:33 +1000 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> 20 Questions for Ex-demonling PC's. As requested, this has been cross-posted from the Pyramid IN board: If a demon has worked his way up from being a demonling, he likely has a history several centuries old. Here are a few questions to help flesh out his Infernal past: The Damned: Was he ever beaten up by a human? Tricked? Befriended? What did he learn from them about the Corporeal Realm? Did he hang around a Shedite, to exploit the terror it generated in humans? Does he resent knowing that he was once weaker than they are, or just gloat now that the tables are turned? Other demonlings: How many of his acquaintances have survived? How many fates has he avoided by not repeating the mistakes of those who didn't? How has the high mortality rate affected the way he interacts with others? Are any of them still demonlings? Or doesn't he know/care, having lost contact with them long ago? Skills: Which of his skills did he learn in Hell? Was he taught any of them, or has he learnt them all the hard way? Mind games: what was the longest period he spent under the resonance of a Balseraph, Habbalite or Impudite? How did he finally become free? Friendship: Did he have any friends? Or has repeated use of the Impudite resonance persuaded him that friendship is a joke? How many 'friends' has he betrayed - or have betrayed him? Debt: What have Lilim Geased him for? How long was it before they called the Geas in? (And how many did he still have when he became a demon?) And what did they want? Stuff: What sort of things did he manage to acquire while a demonling? How did he hide them, and how long did he typically get to keep them before someone stronger took them off him? Essence: What did he use his essence for as a demonling? Did he squander it as soon as he got it, or hoard it and end up being drained by an Impudite? Does he still spend stuff (not just essence) as soon as he gets it to stop it being stolen? If not, why not? Songs: Did he ever try to learn any Songs by spying on demons, or paying for them to be used on him? Did he try to research a Celestial Song? What was it supposed to do? (Remember, it would need an affiliation bonus for "Infernals" for them to have even the slightest chance). Did he fail, or just give up? (Remember that trying to research a Song would be the Infernal equivalent or writing a book - lots of demonlings would talk about their intention to do so, and many would make a start, but there wouldn't be much to show for it). Pain: How badly has he been hurt by the Calabite resonance? How about to other forms of combat? Has he ever lost Forces because of this? Is his Discord (if any) the result of losing his last Corporeal/Ethereal Force? Will-Wars: Has he ever fought a Will-War? If so, against who? A Damned Sorcerer? A fellow demonling? A demon who ordered him to do so, to ensure his loyalty? What was he used for while a Servant? The Game: What was he first accused of? How did he prove his "innocence"? What did he bribe the local Gamesters with to keep them of his back? His first Corporeal Force: Why? (Remember, they're not much use in Hell) Did he have it when first created? Had he learnt a Corporeal Song, and wanted to be able to perform it? Was he aiming for Corporeal duty, perhaps as a familiar? Or was it his 7th Force, only taken by necessity? Words: What Words have tried to recruit him? [Especially those who share a Principality with his Prince] How did he react to Drugs? Gluttony? Lust? Was he enticed to try these Words, or was he mindraped by Attunements? Choosing a Prince: Did he get a choice? (Alternatively, he may have been stuck with a Prince who doesn't share his Principality with rivals, or drafted). If he did, why did he choose that Prince? Loyalty: How did he first prove his loyalty to his Prince? What showed that there was no risk of him Redeeming or betraying his Superior? (Remember, only a chosen handful are assigned to Corporeal service, so security checks would be even tighter than normal). When did he first go to the Corporeal plane, and who took him there? Was he Summoned by a Sorcerer, or sent there by his Prince? Was he ever a Familiar? If so, what was his master like? When 6 Forces strong: - -Assuming he's not a Habbalite, how did he avoid the Habbalah brainwashing teams? Does he still think of religion as a "Habbalite delusion"? Does that affect how he reacts to Heaven's Redemption Squads? - -If he is a Habbalite, what does he think about those who recruited him? That they are holy angels, who brought him to the truth? Or has he spurned them as theologically corrupt? Choosing his Band: Did he consider any other Bands? What made him finally decide on his current Band? Was the decision influenced by Resonances? Does he regret his decision? Cheers, James. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 21:58:54 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: IN> Seneschal Question It's a question that's been bugging me for a while, though I just bought the Liber Castellorum so it's been pushed to the forefront of my thoughts. Basically, Word-Bound Seneschlas become their Tethers. However, unlike other Words, which typically have a potentially infinite lifetime and can be expanded to Superior-status concepts, Tethers are fixed Words which, in the vast majority of cases, last only a few centuries at most. Other than those created by powerful natural events, how many Tethers on earth are even a millenium old? Wouldn't all but the youngest celestials regard these as fleeting things, something you wouldn't want to be bound to? This question first struck me when I saw that a Malakite Seneschal was Word-bound to the Treaty Oak, and is in decline with it. But no matter what you do to a liveoak, it will have a lifespan of a few centuries at most before it succumbs to natural age. An immortal celestial Word-bound to a living Tether has instantly been put under a soul-death sentence! Okay, so as long as the celestial himself lives, they can keep the Tether (barely) in existence by living themselves. But they are a shell of who they were, and all but the most powerful Tethers will succumb to this eventually. The obvious way out is to Word-strip the Seneschal. If they have protected a Tether well, and it has existed for centuries of a useful expected lifetime and made an impact for its master's Word on the world around it, why lose a dedicated and effective Servitor? Of course, this is incredibly painful for the recipient, and the Liber Castellorum explicitly suggests it is not done often, and to angels never without their consent, which is almost never given. Huh? It would seem that being a Word-bound Seneschal would be a complete garbage job. Sure, you get the perks of being a Seneschal, but it's only for a finite time, and you are (or were, at least) an immortal being. Only the most selfless of angels would volunteer for what was sure to be a death sentence, and a lot of unwilling demons would be looking for a way out. If at all possible, Word-bound Seneschals would be bucking to have their Word expanded to some concept the Tether embodies, so they could get out of there and have some other poor stiff get the sword of Damocles hanging over their head. There would be a lot of Attuned Seneschals out there, rather than Word-Bound ones. I want to stick to a canon campaign, but the LCast seems to have Word-bound Seneschals of Tethers that are going to last a few centuries at mot. If I were a Superior, I'd Word-bind a Servitor only to strong natural Tethers, like a volcano or an intermittent one like Hurricanes, or to one that will not wax and wane for untold millenia, like Abel's Grave or Gabriel's field at Bethlehem. In summary, the notion of Word-binding Seneschals to Tethers seems way too common and is far too sought-after a Word. Am I laboring under a misapprehension? William ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 22:01:49 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Lilim Celestial appearance >Which brings the question to mind: Has there been a bit on Iolathe/Demon >Prince opinons written yet, and if so, where could I possibly find it? > >Thanks, > > >Josh Yes, try the mailing list archives if they're available. I have it as posted to the list on December 16 of 2000. William ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 21:10:20 -0500 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Seneschal Question - ----- Original Message ----- From: "William J. Keith" To: Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 8:58 PM Subject: IN> Seneschal Question [snip] > In summary, the notion of Word-binding Seneschals to Tethers seems way too > common and is far too sought-after a Word. Am I laboring under a > misapprehension? Personally, I don't like Word-bound Seneschals at all, because of the reason you mentioned -- the sucker is doomed to die, the only question is how many centuries. (And to all save the youngest Superiors, the term "century" denotes a relatively *short* span of time.) When I DM and the question comes up, I just give all the Word-bound abilities to Attuned Seneschals... which makes Seneschal duty a lot more desirable and Tethers of all varieties just a wee bit tougher to deal with, which keeps Tethers as a place where the action usually *isn't* unless the attackers have amassed a *significant* concentration of forces or else are entirely out of their tiny little minds. IMC. - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 22:10:04 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Seneschal Question > at all possible, Word-bound Seneschals would be bucking to have their Word > expanded to some concept the Tether embodies, so they could get out of > there and have some other poor stiff get the sword of Damocles hanging over > their head. Now seems as good a time as any to toot my own horn: http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/INChar/Angels/Malakite.Zuriel.html - -- Casca "Many people hear voices when no-one is there. Some of them are called mad and are shut up in rooms where they stare at the walls all day. Others are called writers and they do pretty much the same thing." --Margaret Chittenden, writer ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 22:12:32 -0400 From: EDG Subject: IN> Iolanthe DP Opinions At 10:01 PM 4/18/02 -0400, you wrote: >Yes, try the mailing list archives if they're available. I have it as >posted to the list on December 16 of 2000. Iolanthe's Demon Prince Opinions are in Digest 1975. http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/digests/2000/12/1-1975.txt In your browser (not in the digest search!), perform a search for "Princess Iolanthe" on that text file and the post should come up. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 22:53:13 -0400 From: EDG Subject: IN> I Took The One Less Travelled By Very short. (4K) - -EDG - -- For the first time in a long time, Haagenti found himself with nothing to do - with nowhere to go. Contrary to Mariel's understanding of events, Haagenti had killed everybody he needed to. Kobal had been an unintended consequence - but then, that was what came of leaving your cohorts in the dark for most of the operation. Unfortunately, if Mariel found out the truth, she would stop at nothing to rip Haagenti limb from limb. Not that she didn't have the right - after all, according to what she knew, she'd been trapped in his gullet for untold centuries - but it would certainly put a crimp in Haagenti's plan if she were to kill him now. He smiled idly, his fingertips caressing the pommel of the dagger. One thing left to do, and the cycle that had begun seven centuries prior would finally be completed. He still wasn't sure how Lucifer had foreseen all of the catalystic events - the destruction of California, the defection of Vapula, Nybbas, and the unnamed third - but Haagenti felt that he was doing a good job of taking advantage of the whole thing. Then again, there was that book of Lucifer's. Perhaps all of this was happening simply because the Nemesis willed it. Haagenti smiled. He didn't mind being a tool, so long as he was being used by a master craftsman. The Forest of Allusion drew near. Of course, Alaemon had been in on the entire plan from the beginning - it was the only way he could have known everything that he did, and the only way that he could have had Vephar's last remaining Forces prepared for a reincarnation. Never mind that Alaemon had not even yet been created when Vephar had died; the Prince of Secrets kept his own counsel as regarded his sources. The Forest was constructed as a great maze, the trees forming barriers that none - not even the Calabite Princes - could penetrate. Above, the canopy formed an impregnable barrier over the entire forest; the only way to the ruined temple at the center that served as Alaemon's home was to work the maze, whose layout changed for each creature who entered it. One could never be certain of the way in - which was, of course, just the way Alaemon liked it. Naturally, there was an easy way out - but just as naturally, it didn't lead back in... Haagenti stood for several moments at the entrance to the Forest, considering. The dagger was Alaemon's price, and Haagenti had no further use for it; still, it might be a handy device to keep until he was finished with his quest. On the other hand, he had promised it to the Prince of Secrets, and he was reluctant to renege on any deal, even now. In his mind's eye, Lilith appeared before him. "You," she said sternly, "have made a deal. Vephar's Forces for the last remaining shard of Mariel's Heart. The dagger has served its purpose. What need have you for it now?" Haagenti nodded, and Lilith disappeared. He laughed softly and stepped into the Forest of Allusion, fallen leaves crackling beneath his feet as, before him, a cold wind blustered down the corridor of trees. Oddly, his finger itched. He looked at it - the scratch he'd received from the light fixture in the Grand Laboratory. Haagenti's ichor ran cold. He stared for several long moments at the scratch, now a vicious red, and laughed hollowly. Turning to head back to his home, he discovered nothing but another corridor behind him. He was trapped - he should have known better than to step into Alaemon's domain without precautions. There was nothing to do but proceed. Haagenti clutched the dagger, carved of the last remaining shard of Mariel's Heart, and walked off into the Forest. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2608 ********************************