in_nomine-digest Sunday, April 21 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2609 In this digest: Re: IN> I Took The One Less Travelled By Re: IN> Seneschal Question Re: IN> Iolanthe DP Opinions IN> Top Ten No-Nos for Kronos Re: IN> Lilim Celestial appearance Re: IN> Seneschal Question Re: IN> Seneschal Question Re: IN> Seneschal Question Re: IN> Seneschal Question IN> Laurence and the Pope IN> Seneschal Question IN> Recovered Remnants Re: IN> Seneschal Question Re: IN> Seneschal Question IN> Callahan... Re: IN> Callahan... Re: IN> Laurence and the Pope IN> Crossbreeds (Re: Wild West) Re: IN> Lilim Celestial appearance Re: IN> Lilim Celestial appearance Re: IN> Callahan... Re: IN> Seneschal Question Re: IN> Callahan... Re: IN> Callahan... Re: IN> Crossbreeds (Re: Wild West) IN> "You're a Mercurian WHAT?!?" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 03:26:46 +0000 From: "Daniel Gallagher" Subject: Re: IN> I Took The One Less Travelled By Well, it took a little while but another great work, dude. Explains why everyone went down so easy. Still looking forward to more, Dan _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 23:47:54 -0700 From: "Patrick None" Subject: Re: IN> Seneschal Question - ----- Original Message ----- > > > [snip] > > In summary, the notion of Word-binding Seneschals to Tethers seems way too > > common and is far too sought-after a Word. Am I laboring under a > > misapprehension? I read that, and freaked out about it, and I think this is my UA upbringing - shrugged it off. Tethers such as the Old Oak: intrinsic to its Word is its life cycle. When the Oak itself dies of natural causes (or, had it) then the Word reaches its completion and 'blips' out. There aren't many non-Tether words that can reach their totality and fulfillment without one side or the other *winning.* I extend this a bit to most tethers that have any sort of life cycle, but to me it seems that a Tether that used to be strong and is weak now isn't a bum assignment, because the Seneschal is so strongly linked to the Word. The Seneschal, fundamentally, ebbs and flows with the Tether as naturally as humans age, and reproduce. On the other hand, most non Tether words are suck, if they go the way of the dodo in mass culture - like the Demon of Steam Power. Not happy. Consider Tethers the "steady" upper management post. Anyways. Reading straight from canon, you're completely correct:) Patrick (apologizes for the emotion if necessary) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 23:47:54 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Iolanthe DP Opinions Thank you so much. Josh ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 00:48:02 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: IN> Top Ten No-Nos for Kronos Top ten things never, ever, under any circumstances, for fear of your very soul to say to Kronos: 10. Wow, you're kinda wrinkly. 9. Just how close are you and this Yves guy? 8. So... are those laugh lines? 7. ::After Kronos uses his attunement and tells someone their Fate, turning to him and saying: "Cool! Okay, now do me!" 6. Ever gotten a wedgie? 5. Have you tried a facial cream? 4. Are you Jesus? 3. No, I'm serious, I think I can count those things to get your age... 2. You think we were Destined to be together? And the number one thing never, ever, under any circumstances, for fear of your very soul to say to Kronos: 1. Wait, Fate, does that mean you're Atropos, and Lilith and Beleth are Lachesis and Clotho? Josh (It's amazing the things you can find when you're searching through the archives. Course, I only found the idea for this top ten list. Was one actually ever made?) ------------------------------ Date: 19 Apr 2002 07:45:49 +0200 From: Thomas Weinbrenner Subject: Re: IN> Lilim Celestial appearance Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > At 4:54 PM -0400 4/18/02, Brian C. Petery wrote: > >It says in the IN rule book that the Celestial form of a Lilim > >looks like their corporeal form. [...] > If you've lost _one_ of your vessels, it would be hard to use its > form. If you've lost all your vessels, then either use the form of > the last one you had, or the one you spent the most time in. And what does a Lilim look like who never had a vessel? - -- Thomas Weinbrenner ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 05:17:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Seneschal Question - --- "William J. Keith" wrote: > > It would seem that being a Word-bound Seneschal would be > a complete garbage > job. Sure, you get the perks of being a Seneschal, but > it's only for a > finite time, and you are (or were, at least) an immortal > being. Only the > most selfless of angels would volunteer for what was sure > to be a death sentence, Angels, being selfless, might well be willing to do this... > and a lot of unwilling demons would be looking > for a way out. ...and a demon might get such a Word as punishment. I'm sure that several Princes use this method to "reward" Servitors who are effective enough to be threats but who have not yet outlived their usefulness. ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 "In film, the director is God. In documentaries, God is the director." - -- Alfred Hitchcock __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 13:44:11 +0000 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Seneschal Question >From: Michael Walton >Subject: Re: IN> Seneschal Question >Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 05:17:00 -0700 (PDT) [snip] > ...and a demon might get such a Word as punishment. I'm >sure that several Princes use this method to "reward" >Servitors who are effective enough to be threats but who >have not yet outlived their usefulness. Aren't Tethers supposed to be Very Important centers of activity? And isn't there an obvious danger in a system that deliberately selects the chief caretakers for such activity centers to be disgruntled and desperately looking for a way out? Now there's a variant IN campaign for you -- one where demonic Seneschals are busy betraying their Princes left and right, usually (but not always!) to other Princes, in return for eventually getting unstuck from the Anchor O' Slow Death that they've had their feet nailed to. - -- Chuckg _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:16:22 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Seneschal Question Charles Glasgow wrote: > Aren't Tethers supposed to be Very Important centers of activity? And > isn't there an obvious danger in a system that deliberately selects the > chief caretakers for such activity centers to be disgruntled and desperately > looking for a way out? A Tether is like any other Word -- when you're bound to it, it becomes a part of you, and you have not only a vested interest, but an instinctive obsession, to protect and promote it. A Prince would probably not assign an overtly disgruntled or disloyal Servitor to a Tether, but he could very well assign a talented and promising Servitor who is just a little TOO ambitious. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 15:27:34 +0000 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Seneschal Question >From: David Edelstein >Subject: Re: IN> Seneschal Question >Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:16:22 -0500 >A Tether is like any other Word -- when you're bound to it, it becomes a >part of you, and you have not only a vested interest, but an instinctive >obsession, to protect and promote it. True... but there are so many things you can do with (or talk indiscreetly about) with what goes *through* and *near* a Tether, without ever actually destroying your Tether itself. >A Prince would probably not assign an overtly disgruntled or disloyal >Servitor to a Tether, but he could very well assign a talented and >promising Servitor who is just a little TOO ambitious. A definite point. However, even with the "instinctive" urge you allude to above... well, as our favorite Superior interaction stories (both canonical and otherwise) outline, just because you're Word-bound doesn't mean that you can't have really creative ways of working off a grudge... Besides, I thought Hell's classic methods for dealing with an overly ambitious servitor were to set him up (1) to fall into a dire situation that he needed a massive bail-out to survive, then provide said bail-out... and charge usurious rates. Or 'demote' him for his 'failure'. (Which still leaves a disgruntled, pissed-off, talented and ambitious Servitor standing behind the Prince in question, of course... but at least he's not a senior Seneschal.) - -- Chuckg (1) Any Demon Prince who can't do this as easily as Servitors of Novalis plant trees ought to turn in the Principality and go jump in the Soul Chasm. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:46:03 -0400 From: "Brian C. Petery" Subject: IN> Laurence and the Pope >And besides, where you really clean up is using relievers and/or gremlins >and Binding them into Vessel/1 -- Desk. (Or alternatively, Vessel/1 -- Desk >Lamp, Vessel/1 -- Potted Plant, etc.) And then hit the office supply >companies... and they say *God* is in the details... Hey! That explains why my rassenfrassen stapler keeps spitting staples at my face! A Cali bite in the making. Anybody know how to exorcise office equipment? >Actually, it's probably more like: > >[Angel] "I am an angel of Dominic and that man is Discordant. He appears to >have been geased." > >[Soldier of God, who also happens to be in a senior post in Vatican internal >security] -- "I'm on it." Actually I was thinking that it would be before the assembled Cardinals, but you're right, it's probably an old trick. No doubt all the members of the Swiss Guard have the Ofanim of Judgement attunement. No resonance required, anyone can use it. That would make them all Soldiers of God. No wonder they're so exclusive. I can't think of a clever tagline, BC Petery http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:46:04 -0400 From: "Brian C. Petery" Subject: IN> Seneschal Question >Only the most selfless of angels would volunteer >for what was sure to be a death sentence, and a >lot of unwilling demons would be looking for a way out. Likely Celestials don't think about death the way corporeal beings do. They are acknowledged to have non-corporeal attitudes about sex and reproduction. I've run out of things to say, BC Petery http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:46:04 -0400 From: "Brian C. Petery" Subject: IN> Recovered Remnants >In Nomine Content: The extent of accurate preservation >of the "old ways" in RL Asatru (as opposed to more >Hellenic or Gaelic varieties of paganism, which tend to >be more heavily modernized) smacks of stronger etherial >intervention by the Norse Pantheon in the IN world. They >seem to tend and guide their worshippers more carefully >than the Olympians or the Fae. I wonder if it isn't just that comic book. I forgot to ask him if he reads his own series. Does he get an Essence from all the readers? The Collective seems to. And could Essence be gathered from an RPG? I'll Shut Up Now, BC Petery http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 18:59:27 -0000 From: "Chris Anthony" Subject: Re: IN> Seneschal Question "Brian C. Petery" said: > Likely Celestials don't think about death the way corporeal beings do. They > are acknowledged to have non-corporeal attitudes about sex and reproduction. Right. Mortals often think of death as a transition - from Earth to Heaven, say. Celestial death is distinctly different. If a celestial dies, they *die*. Forces disbanded, scattered into the Symphony, end of story. If they're amazingly lucky, they lose all of their Celestial Forces first and get to keep on living as a Remnant (although whether that's good or bad luck is a matter of personal opinion). So yes, celestials do think of death differently than mortals do, because (as far as anyone knows) there isn't a Heaven or Hell for dead celestials. On the other hand, what if there is? What if all of the disbanded Forces rejoin on an even higher plane of existence? And what happens if you die *there*? Is it infinitely recursive? Or do you get a plane where nobody can die, period? - -EDG "It's turtles all the way down." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 18:59:24 +0000 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Seneschal Question >From: "Brian C. Petery" >Subject: IN> Seneschal Question >Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:46:04 -0400 >Likely Celestials don't think about death the way corporeal beings do. They >are acknowledged to have non-corporeal attitudes about sex and >reproduction. Yes, but *soul*-death is something that Celestials take at least as seriously as humans do corporeal death. Even more seriously, I'd think. Some humans at least believe that there is life after death. Celestials, OTOH, ain't exactly known for believing that there is life beyond soul-death... (Digression -- Celestial attitudes on Corporeal death run from "I'd really rather not. It hurts like crazy, Trauma sucks, and have you seen what new Vessels *cost*?" on up to "And for my next trick, I'm going to crash an even *bigger* truck full of dynamite into *another* Infernal Tether! WHOO-HOO!" (1) - -- Chuckg (1) Do I even need to point out which Choir the speaker is here? *eg* _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 16:00:25 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: IN> Callahan... Due to the recent overdose of Spider Robinson... I was wondering if anyone has done a write-up on the collective Creation/Flowers/Destiny/(non-canonical, and very Moeish) Gusto tether at Callahan's bar? Just a thought. Josh (What do you mean we can't make Mike Callahan a Grigori?) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 20:16:38 +0000 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Callahan... >From: "Josh Moger" >Subject: IN> Callahan... >Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 16:00:25 -0400 >(What do you mean we can't make Mike Callahan a Grigori?) With the way he keeps going to Harm... err, Heaven and back? He obviously ain't nobody who the Inquisition has any especial interest in... Besides, remember Callahan's famous empathy, and his "monolithic calm", and that "US 40 is shorter than his temper". He's clearly an Elohite. Callahan's family... * Michael Callahan -- Elohite of Flowers. Probably Distincted. * Sally McGee -- Ofanite(?) of Creation. * Mary Callahan Finn -- Cherub of Protection. Don't ask me how the heck to fit in Michael Finn. I just can't think of a *thing*... Oh, and as for the Patrons? So far I have Jake Stonebender as a Creationer (either Soldier, Saint, or angel, I can't decide), but that's about it. Oh, I also have Long-Drink as a Redeemed servitor of Kobal (or a Renegade one who's a very good Redemption candidate in progress), but again, that's about it. - -- Chuckg _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:36:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Laurence and the Pope - --- "Brian C. Petery" wrote: > Hey! That explains why my rassenfrassen stapler keeps > spitting staples at my > face! A Cali bite in the making. Anybody know how to > exorcise office equipment? There's a chant that works with computers; "Om Mani Pentium" or something like that. };> ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 "In film, the director is God. In documentaries, God is the director." - -- Alfred Hitchcock __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 18:42:36 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Crossbreeds (Re: Wild West) At 12:30 PM -0600 4/18/02, Wade Lahoda wrote: [...] > I'm glad In Nomine doesn't get people who want to be 'crossbreeds' of >different character types. I'm glad the metaphysics of the game make it >doesn't even *occur* to people to make 'crossbreeds', never mind putting >them into print. I dunno -- I think we got some cross-Choir stuff a while back, on the list... But the metaphysics of things do ensure that crossbreeds are kept to a minimum, and thank the stars for that, 'cause it saves my sanity. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 19:01:52 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Lilim Celestial appearance At 10:01 PM -0400 4/18/02, William J. Keith wrote: >>Which brings the question to mind: Has there been a bit on Iolathe/Demon >>Prince opinons written yet, and if so, where could I possibly find it? >Yes, try the mailing list archives if they're available. I have it as >posted to the list on December 16 of 2000. Or http://www.io.com/~arcangel/Prince.Iolanthe.html - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. arcangel is nursing a trout with ARMS! ARMS that reach out and try to pound the keyboard! You say "And teeth. Ow." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 19:08:14 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Lilim Celestial appearance At 7:45 AM +0200 4/19/02, Thomas Weinbrenner wrote: >And what does a Lilim look like who never had a vessel? A somewhat "fuzzy around the edges" female form, first appearing as a green 'copy' of Lilith (only without the PRINCESS HERE impact) and taking on additional characteristics as the Lilim develops more of her own unique personality. If Lilith cares to, she can imprint certain personality aspects (in a general way) that predispose a Lilim to, for instance, want a sneaky, lean, boyish vessel... (This generally requires use of Theft Forces, of course, just as Buxom Lilim often have some Lust ones.) Impudites are much the same, but with wings and not green. O:> (Why, yes, I have thought on that matter... O;> ) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 19:14:07 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Callahan... At 8:16 PM +0000 4/19/02, Charles Glasgow wrote: >Don't ask me how the heck to fit in Michael Finn. I just can't think of a >*thing*... Ethereal god, formerly enslaved to Nightmares? - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. arcangel is nursing a trout with ARMS! ARMS that reach out and try to pound the keyboard! You say "And teeth. Ow." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 17:51:17 -0600 From: "Wade Lahoda" Subject: Re: IN> Seneschal Question - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Anthony" > So yes, celestials do think of death differently than mortals do, because (as > far as anyone knows) there isn't a Heaven or Hell for dead celestials. > > On the other hand, what if there is? What if all of the disbanded Forces > rejoin on an even higher plane of existence? And what happens if you die > *there*? Is it infinitely recursive? Or do you get a plane where nobody can > die, period? Or, of course, you get to a plane where if you die, you get reborn on this plane - as a human. Such an origin for human souls, and a soul-recyclying Symphony would certainly be a good reason why God said humans were special. A. Wade Lahoda ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 17:01:28 -0700 From: Daiv Subject: Re: IN> Callahan... >At 8:16 PM +0000 4/19/02, Charles Glasgow wrote: > >>Don't ask me how the heck to fit in Michael Finn. I just can't think of a >>*thing*... > >Ethereal god, formerly enslaved to Nightmares? I am Shiva, destroyer of wor... Oh, wait, i need to make a toast. - -- hurricane winds blow tempest that has no eye damn those butterflies ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 18:57:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Callahan... - --- Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > At 8:16 PM +0000 4/19/02, Charles Glasgow wrote: > > >Don't ask me how the heck to fit in Michael Finn. > I just can't think of a > >*thing*... > > Ethereal god, formerly enslaved to Nightmares? Good Lord, people. I'm half toasted at the moment (a coworker of mine had a going away party tonight), and the answer is obvious. Mr. Finn is quite obviously a product of Vaputech that's managed to overcome his programming* and reassert his essential Malakite of Protection nature... ;) Moe *Hardwired, no less. There's a _reason_ why Tartarus has no beer. ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/13/02(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 22:01:04 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Crossbreeds (Re: Wild West) Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > I dunno -- I think we got some cross-Choir stuff a while back, on the > list... Here: http://www.amadan.org/Innomine/celestialvariants.html But in fairness, there are reasonable arguments for proposing a less rigid classification of celestials. Not quite the same as trying to see how many WoD critters you can stuff into one character concept. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 22:11:54 -0700 From: "Phillip DesJardins" Subject: IN> "You're a Mercurian WHAT?!?" Okay, this was kicking around in my head for a while now, so I thought I'd try it out. I've got some Word-bound I might post soon as well. Helam Mercurian Friend of the Lord's Troops Corporeal Forces: 4 Strength: 8 Agility: 8 Ethereal Forces: 5 Intelligence: 9 Precision: 11 Celestial Forces: 5 Perception: 10 Will: 10 Vessel: Burly human male/4 +2 Charisma Skills: Chemistry/4, Computer Operation/3, Detect Lies/2, Dodge/6, Driving/3, Electronics/4, Engineering/3, Fast-Talk.4, Fighting/6, Knowledge (US legal system/6), Lockpicking/4, Lying/4, Move Silently/5, Ranged Weapon (Pistol/4), Savoir-Faire/6, Small Weapon (Knife/6) Songs: Charm (All/4), Healing (Corporeal/6), Numinous Corpus (Acid/4, Claws/6, Feet/6, Tail/4, Wings/6), Possession/6, Shields (All/6), Plagues (Celestial/5) Attunements: Seraph of the Sword, Ofanim of the Sword, Mercurian of the Sword, Hunt Demons underestimate Mercurians. Y'see, even though they know that Mercurians are allowed to be violent towards demons, the fact is most Mercurians never learn enough combat skill to be a threat. Helam is an example of that rarest of creature, the Mercurian demon hunter. Don't laugh. Laurence trusts him. If anything, his resonance as a Mercurian makes him potentially far more usefull than a Malakite. He acts as a free agent, going wherever Laurence sends him. Once there, he investigates suspected diabolical activity for a while, using his resonance to guide him as much as it can(The Mercurian resonance can't tell you if someone's a demon, but I imagine it can give you a few pointers to finding out if they are or not). Once he's confirmed someone as being a demon, then he strikes. He knows who your friends are. He knows your job. He knows your hobbies. He knows your interests, what most people call you and possibly your favorite beer. And then he sets to destroying these, one by one. His eccletic list of skills represents the various tactics he has to employ in order to set about doing this, but in general his modus operandi follows a simple pattern. He destroys relationships, gets people fired from jobs, foils any plots in motion, and generally takes the demon's Role and sends it crashing and burning. The best part is that most demons are paranoid enough that when it happens they'd assume that it's other demons that are the source of their problems: after all, they're "The only ones who know enough about my operations to do it." This usually leads to further chaos as they lash out at their allies, and gives Helam more targets for later. And yes, after it's all over he does go in and kill the demon, usually with the help of whatever Malakim are available. That way when they come out of Trauma, they get to explain to their boss how the Hell their earthly operations got so far off-track. And for the record he does practice similar activities on Hellsworn, minus the killing part. It helps to teach any potential demonic underlings that it isn't worth the price. The moral of the story: Demons shouldn't overlook Mercurians. Especially Mercurians who are welcome at the Eighth Virtue. Phillip, Mercurian of Novalis, the Happy Shiny Mercurian "The world needs a hug." ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2609 ********************************