in_nomine-digest Sunday, May 5 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2623 In this digest: Re: IN> experience, time spent alive Re: IN> [Novalis] Angel of Euphemism Re: IN> [Novalis] Angel of Euphemism Re: IN> [Novalis] Angel of Euphemism RE: IN> Invocation (was: Zapan, Demon Prince of Ice) Re: IN> [Novalis] Angel of Euphemism IN> Month of Mayflowers: Soldiers or Gardeners? IN> Sorcerers IN> A Sequel... IN> Dueling Sequels Re: IN> Dueling Sequels Re: IN> Dueling Sequels Re: IN> Dueling Sequels Re: IN> Dueling Sequels Re: IN> Dueling Sequels Re: IN> Dueling Sequels IN> Seraphim of Flowers (Was Re: Dueling Sequels) Re: IN> Dueling Sequels RE: IN> Dueling Sequels RE: IN> Dueling Sequels Re: IN> Seraphim of Flowers (Was Re: Dueling Sequels) IN> The Demon of Pain (Nightmares) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 22:14:18 -0400 From: "Patrick None" Subject: Re: IN> experience, time spent alive <> Cool. All good points:) I think, again, I'm just too fundamentally UAish to think of it that way. I really only figured that the only way the War made sense to me was that if Heaven was crippled due to political infighting. Otherwise, Michael would suck it up, realize that War includes the ineffable, and Destiny is ineffable. Dominic would utilze his judgement to realize that a good public image makes enforcement easier, not harder. Khalid would have, in good Faith, simply noted that perhaps his approach to the War wasn't suited for the position of Commander, and moved on. To me, the only reason Heaven *hasn't* gotten its act together is that pretty much every member of it that *can* interact with the Corporeal plane (ie, PCs and their Superiors) is far too human. Michael won't, for example, simply accept that an Angel should have a Word because "Yves says so." Or, if he would, it undercuts a lot of the reasoning for his status w/ Yves. He probably has someone who has been doing something similar for hundreds if not thousands of years - lets get a Word contest up. And while Yves is the oldest being, Michael is a close second, and at the Core of the War faction. Sorry if I come off as just being arguemntative, I am, but hopefully in a constructive way. I'm almost 2 months deep into running (after about 4 months of planning) my first IN game, so I appreciate veterans to pick apart my thoughts, and rebuild them as shambling monstrosities of neatness. :) Patrick -EDG > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 17:25:07 -0300 From: "vez o'rama" Subject: Re: IN> [Novalis] Angel of Euphemism >From: "Patrick None" >Subject: Re: IN> [Novalis] Angel of Euphemism >Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 12:35:33 -0400 > Probably a Habbalite or Balseraph of Factions, IMINC. Hrm. Interesting. :) I think I'd still stick with Nybbas, IMINC, but Factions is certainly workable and fun! :) Hey, I have an idea. Why don't we make two infernal Word candidates for Euphemism and make _them_ fight over it? ;) Hope your campaign kicks butt, - - vez _________________________________________________________________ Join the world s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 22:50:42 -0400 From: "Patrick None" Subject: Re: IN> [Novalis] Angel of Euphemism > > Hrm. Interesting. :) > > I think I'd still stick with Nybbas, IMINC, but Factions is certainly > workable and fun! :) Well, my hideously useful GF informs me that the word "Euphamism" comes from a Grek playwriter who wrote terrible, terrible tragedies, but in a kind of upbeat way. She was more informed about it, but in any case, that's why I made him older. "Euphas." > > Hey, I have an idea. Why don't we make two infernal Word candidates for > Euphemism and make _them_ fight over it? ;) > Oh. :) See note to EDG regarding why i'm so argumentative. Sorry:) > Hope your campaign kicks butt, > thanks! > - vez > Patrick ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 17:31:02 -0400 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> [Novalis] Angel of Euphemism At 10:50 PM 5/3/02 -0400, you wrote: >Well, my hideously useful GF informs me that the word "Euphamism" comes from >a Grek playwriter who wrote terrible, terrible tragedies, but in a kind of >upbeat way. > She was more informed about it, but in any case, that's why I made him >older. "Euphas." Nota bene: either your girlfriend's pulling your leg, or someone's pulled hers. "Euphemism" (note the spelling) is a direct derivative of two Greek words: "eu", good or auspicious, and "phemos", speech. Euphemisms are therefore auspicious words or phrases (presumably used in place of less-auspicious words or phrases). ObIN: Now *that* would make an interesting demon - the Demon of Misetymology, a Impudite of Fate whose Word-attunement is the ability to use his Impudite of Fate attunement on the written or spoken word... - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 19:20:28 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: RE: IN> Invocation (was: Zapan, Demon Prince of Ice) At 5:08 PM -0400 5/3/02, Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW) wrote: >From: Perry Lloyd [mailto:perrylloyd@hotmail.com] >> >>Why bother having invocation of your Superior when you can just flee Earth >>at any time? > >I've often had this question. Okay, Trauma sucks, but it isn't as bad as >Soul Death, so why not fight until you're Vessel is trashed instead of >"going Celestial" and taking the risk of an attack that could really destroy >you? That's what a lot of celestials figure -- though sometimes, if you know your opposition isn't going to be able to get more than a lick or two in, it's better to skedaddle with Vital Information or whatnot. And, it should be noted, it does take a Will+CelForces roll to get celestial (and it's "+CelForces" because otherwise most angels are stuck looking like ponces when trying to impress humans*) -- and it's a straight _Will_ roll (only) to get back to your Heart. Angels tend to hang around looking like ponces. O:> >And why would Malakim and Cheurbim worry about physically tough vessels when >the real damage occurs on a Celestial level? Your average Imp or Mercurian >would, Celestially, kick the wings off most Malakim I've seen written up. Not all battles are celestial -- as noted, many demons (or angels, for that matter) are likely to avoid going celestial becaues they don't want to die permanently. (Though in Hell, Trauma can be pretty dangerous if you have enemies who can 'pay their respects' while you're unconscious...) Not to mention that there are things like Hellsworn, or just plain old muggers -- corporeal sturdiness is just useful on Earth! Cherubim need to be able to protect their corporeal charges. Malakim need to be able to dish out damage -- and then come back and dish it out s'more... (Darn Malakim, they're like roaches; keep comin' back.) (* This happened once, when we forgot to add CelForces.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 20:18:21 -0300 From: "vez o'rama" Subject: Re: IN> [Novalis] Angel of Euphemism >From: EDG >Subject: Re: IN> [Novalis] Angel of Euphemism >Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 17:31:02 -0400 > >At 10:50 PM 5/3/02 -0400, you wrote: >ObIN: Now *that* would make an interesting demon - the Demon of >Misetymology, a Impudite of Fate whose Word-attunement is the ability to >use his Impudite of Fate attunement on the written or spoken >word... Oooo. I like. :) - - vez _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 13:01:53 +1000 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Month of Mayflowers: Soldiers or Gardeners? Laurence's hostility to Novalis has some interesting effects for humans serving Flowers, given that they report to both Superiors. Of course, Laurence doesn't actually commandeer the Gardeners - that wouldn't be appropriate. But if he thinks that it would help Heaven to have more Soldiers fighting forest fires, it's only natural that the request go to Novalis. Similarly, Gardeners will be asked to consider becoming paramedics, and expected to at least have Medallion level first aid certificates, or asked to watch over pacifistic Christian churches (those who do so commendably may be granted Laurence's baptism Rite). This slowly draws the gardeners into formal organisations which fall under Laurence's Word - and only those Gardeners who do so are likely to ever get Rites or attunements of The Sword. And some of Laurence's attunements are very useful to Gardeners: Purity of Purpose is the one most desired, of course. Holy Fortitude is the one most often granted - any gardener who choses to become a paramedic can hope to acquire it one day, especially if they join the (secret branch of) The Knight's of St John, and openly belong to St. John's Ambulance Brigade: Laurence is openly pleased that one of his knightly orders is still nominally in existence and working for Heaven, and watches over it's mortal members. Every now and again, a Gardener acquires Scabbard - and it's understood by everyone that the attunement is so that they can get rid of weapons, not use them: a Gardener who works with juvenile delinquents can end up Scabbarding thousands of knives during their career. Still, 'misuse' of the attunement has been irritating Novalis no end. A Gardener with Hunt or Blade Blessing has almost certainly been transferred permanently to The Sword. What is causing problems between Flowers and The Sword is the existence of Soldiers of Flowers (none of whom use the title Gardeners) with the Divine Absolution attunement. They're very rare; partly because Laurence will not grant the attunement lightly, generally only if the individual has a Distinction (or for Soldiers, a couple of attunements); partly because he won't grant it to anyone with fewer than 25 Soul hits; but they're more common than among any other Superior's Soldiers! The reason is simple, of course. Laurence "understands" that Novalis' Servitors can acquire dissonance when killing a demon isn't necessary, but furthers Heaven's purposes, and he doesn't want Novalis' angels "unjustly" punished. The light penances applied to the angels involved encourages Angels of Flowers to be happier with violence than Novalis approves of - and that violence is habit forming. Of course, any Soldier with this attunement does report back who he has used the attunement on and why (generally while recovering) so the benefiting angel will eventually be asked to join The Sword: generally directly after being reprimanded by Novalis for unnecessary violence. Cheers, James. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 13:11:04 +1000 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Sorcerers > Which brings up the idea of Hatiphas hunting down the best sorcerer's Hell > has seen and hasn't had to soul kill, and beginning them on a force-bonding > and ritual learning regimen. > > Hmm... What happens again when you strip infernal forces off of... say... a > Shedite and you staple (CELESTIAL STAPLES! NEW AND IMPROVED!) them to a > human soul? They gain the ability to acquire the Band attunement of the demon, if it's not Restricted (mind you, it takes a DP to do this). CPG describes this in detail. One of the reasons for the rarity of Blessed Sorcerers is that they fulfil the criteria to become ghosts: having 2 Celestial Forces and having met their Destiny. Hatiphas would encourage them to become Ghosts (with the aid of the Demon of Ghosts, who I'm in the process of writing up). Of course, as this costs them a Force, they can't use Sorcery any more - enter Hatiphas with Oathtaking... Cheers, James. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 15:15:40 +1000 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> A Sequel... I enjoyed reading The Lanceolate Leaf, but a couple of things have been bugging me. This story is about them; and why I expect Laurence to continue to consider the Word of Flowers to be - at best - irrelevant. Of course, this is coming from the POV of Nightmares, so there's no way it could be considered a balanced viewpoint! ======================================================= "Meet you at the Haloes?" 'Check. How's he doing?' A chuckle. "He's learning...come and join in." Hanging up, the chuckling Djinn looked around the apartment. It looked nice. Very nice. He'd been careful not to disrupt that. Anything out of the ordinary would have spoilt the effect. He'd moved things around - a little. Just enough to let the owner know that their home had been violated. Helping himself to a cup of coffee, he waited for his attuned angel to arrive. - --- ~What the...oh. Reggie.~ Rose had just arrived home, a Gardener in tow. Finding a Djinn in his living room wasn't what he'd expected. Still, it could be worse - and soon would be... "Hello Rose - pleased to see me?" The angel tried to manage a smile. ~I should be.~ The Djinn noted the evasion with amusement - the Seraph was learning fast. "I felt the need to talk, so I thought I'd impose on you. You don't have a problem, with that? I can leave if you want..." ~No, that's fine...I'm glad you came to me! I was hoping that we could talk.~ "Oh, I don't want to talk to *you*, angel. You've been endangering our corporeal operations, you see. Very annoying. We need to plan for the future. But there's something special about not being able to fight in your presence. So I've invited all of the demons who I normally can't talk to face to face to join me in your living room - we can have a nice, peaceful discussion on how to work together against Heaven." Rose looked at him in disbelief, and then smiled. ~Yes, why not. It won't hurt for your friends to learn how beneficial resolving things by talking can be.~ Silly demon, she thought. Have you forgotten my resonance? Divulge all of your plans in front of me - and as everyone there will know that I can't lie, I can drop uncomfortable truths into the conversation. "No, it won't will it? No one gets hurt in your presence. Don't you just love that?" Reggie turned towards the nameless Soldier. "I'm sitting in front of you - a demon - with centuries of cruelty behind me. I know thousands of things to do to my victims, ways to torture their bodies in incredible agony, and I can't use any of them. As long as Rose is here, you're safe; safe from every physical agony known to Man - or Angel - or Demon. Completely safe...there's nothing I can do about it." "Do you feel safe?" The Soldier was shaking. Rose spoke: ~ He's telling the truth, for once. He can't hurt you..~ "I didn't say that, halo!" the Djinn hissed. ~No, I did. You're safe, protected by the Word of Flowers.~ "Yes..." the Djinn continued, in his hissing voice. "I'm safe, too. Very special, that feeling. No one in Hell feels like this. No one. They can all be killed. I can't be. As long as Rose is here...I'm safe. There's no way to get rid of me.." The Soldier was no fool. He couldn't remain within a few feet of Rose for the rest of his life: true safety meant getting rid of Reggie. But that was impossible; the Djinn was as safe as he was. And the Djinn could follow Rose; he'd heard rumours of the Djinn ability to track people. Reggie looked into the Soldier's face, and read the Fears... "Actually" He said in a quiet, musing voice "you *can* spend the rest of your life within a few feet of Rose." No fool, the Soldier realised that all that required was for him to die the moment he was no longer protected. Reggie leaned back. "Why don't you make a pot of tea? Given that we can't fight, we may as well be sociable." He felt happy. Nightmares wasn't about to doing horrible things to people. Death, The War, Fire - they would be helpless here, unable to hurt their victims. But Nightmares - Nightmares was about what *could* happen. Quite frankly, a defenceless victim was no fun at all, because if it could happen, it would. No false hopes, no dread, no worries - just pain. Quite boring. Where was the anticipation, the dread? Here - sitting in a Flowerchild's living room, bending the brain of her loyal human lackey, preparing him for a night in Beleth's realm. And watching the angel slowly understand... "Tell me, Rose - do you speak Helltongue? When demons from all over the world need to talk, it's the only language we have in common. No? Well, I could always teach you - it wouldn't cause you that much dissonance.." The bell rang. "My fellow demons are here. We will plot and plan in a language you do not understand, and our planning will hurt Heaven. Calling for help won't achieve anything: whether the police or a squad of Malakim: they cannot fight in your presence, so we will ignore them. Your Soldier will either leave - and be an easy target; or stay, and be so horrified by what we are that he will be easy prey when he sleeps." "And then...you will have failed. For I know what you fear: returning empty handed, having failed in your chance to prove to The Sword that you are actually useful. Were they here instead of you, things would be different. A knight in shining armour: that's something to drive away Nightmares." "But not you." Cheers, James. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 02:29:02 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: IN> Dueling Sequels > I enjoyed reading The Lanceolate Leaf, but a couple of things have been >bugging me. This story is about them; and why I expect Laurence to continue >to consider the Word of Flowers to be - at best - irrelevant. >Of course, this is coming from the POV of Nightmares, so there's no way it >could be considered a balanced viewpoint! Heh... no doubt, many would think an angel of Flowers this ineffectual. As has been pointed out on the list before, though, effective pacifism requires a great deal of, well, *planning*. I'd like to continue your scenario for a bit here (I feel kind of like I'm in a PBEM without a GM. ;^) Heh.) - ----------------- Two Lilim, a Balseraph, and a Shedite riding some hobo had arrived. Helltongue bounced around the room, harsh syllables cutting the warm air. Rose looked about. The Balseraph was typical of his kind -- well-dressed, snide mien. The Lilim were dressed as streetwalkers, but nevertheless managed to hold their sensual graces. Rose got up, and motioned to the Soldier to follow. Reggie looked up. "Where are you going, halo? Siddown!" "Or you'll what?" Rose asked calmly. Nothing, of course. "Try not to kill each other while I'm in the kitchen...." Rose headed for the kitchen, the Soldier following her. "Oh God, Oh God," mumbled the Soldier. "They're gonna do it...." "No, they won't. Reggie won't, at any rate. Nightmares is more about threats than following through," said Rose. "Pass me the kettle, will you?" "Tea?! You're making tea for those...!" shouted the Soldier. Loud enough to be heard, and laughed at, by the demons in the living room. "Yes, tea. We could hardly fight off the lot of them, not that that would help anyway." Rose pulled out the tin of tea leaves, started water on boiling, and looked into the room. "Put that knife somewhere else, will you?" she called out. The Shedite looked over at the Lilim that had been toying with a stiletto, and Reggie got the idea she'd wanted him to get. The longer she stayed in this kitchen, the longer they were without her protection. She took her time about adding a bit of lemon, and this and that. Reggie was satisfyingly relieved when she walked back into the room. She took the opportunity to walk back in, soothing the tensions that had sprung up while she was gone. She passed out teacups and biscuits, playing to the Balseraph's vanity and the Lilims' sense of style - -- even Reggie and the Shedite took one, gently persuaded by her soft air, although the Shedite gulped his down messily. Rose sat down in her chair again as the demons continued to plot and plan, sipping their tea and eating her homemade biscuits. It wasn't long before, as she'd suspected he would, the Shedite nodded off. Gluttony had taken its toll, and the Shedite had gotten a much larger dose of the soporific into his system. Reggie and the other three figured it out quickly, of course, but it was already too late. In a few minutes, all five of them were passed out on her living room floor. "You see, Bob?" said Rose, flipping through their belongings and eyeing an interesting ruby pendant one of the Lilim was wearing, a possible artifact. "Quite impotent, when the proper precautions are taken. Now, what *shall* we do with them?" - ------- Or ------- Rose listened carefully to everything the demons said, and waited patiently until they had left. She did her best to calm down Bob, then made a phone call to the nearest Tether of Destiny, and waited at her desk. A few hours later, her request arrived. *flicker* She looked down. There on her desk, in neat handwriting, was the translation of everything she had heard. There was also a note from her friend. "Rose, glad to be of service. Ever since you helped Redeem me, I've been having a blast. Being a Kyriotate's ever so much better than being a Shedite, and Yves is the *best*. If the demons are going to make this a regular thing at your house, let me know and I'll drop by afterwards to rummage through your memories again. Love, Yrtl. P.S.: Bob'll relax. Just trust his natural instincts." - ------- Or ------- Reggie looked down at the bleeding hole that had just appeared in his chest. "Oh dear," said Rose, knitting in the corner. "Thierry does so like his sniper rifle. Laurentians can be quite hasty, at times. We were recently assigned to work together, did you know?" Another silenced shot thwipped through the apartment, and a Lilim sported a chest wound as Reggie slumped over and the others fled. "Bob can fix that if you like, dear, he knows the Song of Healing. It won't cost much -- that's a pretty little reliquary you're wearing...." - ------- Or ------- The demons were mostly leaving. Rose looked up. "Wait, Reggie. Can we talk? Alone?" Reggie snickered. "What for -- bargaining for your litle Soldier's dreams?" "I'd very much like to protect them, yes." The other demons left. "Well, tough. He can spend tonight screaming, and maybe one of my colleagues will find him and have a litle fun." Reggie looked over at the Soldier. "Rose can't follow you into the Marches, you know." Rose sighed. Stall him a bit longer, anything to get the other demons further away. "Surely there can be something else you'd rather have. You know I consider humans more important than myself...." She left it open, to bait him into filling the blank. It worked. A few minutes later, she dropped the stall and quickly sang a Celestial Song of Charm, powered with as much Essence as she dared spend. "Now, then, Reggie. Your plans, the ones you were laying tonight. Wouldn't I be ever so frightened if I actually knew what they were? Wouldn't your deviousness and cruelty just terrify me? Why don't you tell me what all you were planning?" She signaled, and Bob whipped out his notebook. Very useful, Bob was. - ------------------- You get the idea. My point in each of these responses is this: pacifism can appear soft and useless, but a prepared pacifist is an effective agent for many causes -- and their effectiveness is not least from the fact that they are often underestimated. To be sure, they are denied a particular route of solution, and their enemies can take this into account and plan for it. But this simply prods them to be all the more creative in their tactics. William ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 17:22:59 +1000 From: "Shane" Subject: Re: IN> Dueling Sequels On 5 May 2002, 2:29, William J. Keith wrote: (various good scenarios snipped) > You get the idea. My point in each of these responses is this: > pacifism can appear soft and useless, but a prepared pacifist is an > effective agent for many causes -- and their effectiveness is not least > from the fact that they are often underestimated. To be sure, they are > denied a particular route of solution, and their enemies can take this > into account and plan for it. But this simply prods them to be all the > more creative in their tactics. There's also another interesting little fact about Seraphim (of Flowers or otherwise) that Reggie the Demon has missed - the Seraphim Resonance for Truth doesn't require the user to understand what is being said... yep, that's right. Rose won't understand a word being said - but the Symphony knows all, and it is the Symphony that Rose is consulting for help in learning the Truth. Depending on how well she does, Rose may gain anywhere from an inkling (okay, the shedite thinks it lied to the lilim, aka CD1) to the whole Truth (wow, the shedite thinks it lied to the lilim, felt its first statement was the most false, it lied because it wants payback for a trick it thinks the Lilim played on it, it believes the truth to be that the painting at the little shop on sixth and apple is a cursed relic and that when the lilim steals it she'll get Discord, but it doesn't actually know the Truth, and the Truth is that the painting is one of Eli's and does *Superior fuzziness* and also *ineffable stuff*, aka CD6). Now imagine if Rose had the Seraphim of Judgement choir attunement. :) Cheers, Shane. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 15:43:47 +0000 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> Dueling Sequels >There's also another interesting little fact about Seraphim (of Flowers >or otherwise) that Reggie the Demon has missed - the Seraphim Resonance >for Truth doesn't require the user to understand what is being said... >yep, that's right. Rose won't understand a word being said - but the >Symphony knows all, and it is the Symphony that Rose is consulting for >help in learning the Truth. Are you sure this is right? I don't think so; I think the Seraph has to understand the language. (Hello, Beth? This is something I may actually need to know for my game ...) Janet Anderson _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 12:02:42 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Dueling Sequels > Now imagine if Rose had the Seraphim of Judgement choir attunement. :) Add Seraph of Revelations and it gets even scarier: Uber-perception *and* you get to pick your CD. That's a combo I'd be very reluctant to let a player have. - -- Casca "Many people hear voices when no-one is there. Some of them are called mad and are shut up in rooms where they stare at the walls all day. Others are called writers and they do pretty much the same thing." --Margaret Chittenden, writer ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 12:04:09 -0400 From: Mike Bruner Subject: Re: IN> Dueling Sequels >------------------- > You get the idea. My point in each of these responses is this: >pacifism can appear soft and useless, but a prepared pacifist is an >effective agent for many causes -- and their effectiveness is not least >from the fact that they are often underestimated. To be sure, they are >denied a particular route of solution, and their enemies can take this into >account and plan for it. But this simply prods them to be all the more >creative in their tactics. Besides the innate flaw in the demon's plan to begin with; he acted like angels called in would be unable to fight, which neglected the obvious ploy of them surrounding the demons and then the Seraph of Flowers dropping the attunement right as Heaven's soldiers are in position (and after the Redeemed servitor in the reinforcements listens in to every word in the conversation). Or for the particularly cruel, let the Seraph keep the attunement up and grab the demons as they exit; since they can't fight, they've got nothing they can do except cower inside and hear every escapee die horribly. Mix in Songs to prevent supernatural flight and pump Essence to the Seraph inside if needed, and there's your nightmare for you! :). And in the unlikely event normal reinforcements weren't available (I can't figure out WHY any angel could resist the idea of demons gathering on YOUR home ground and lingering there for a while so you have time to set up a serious ambush, but let's assume for the sake of argument this happens), I would imagine having demons, of all beings, talking peacefully about their issues because of you would make a great modifier to an invocation attempt for Novalis ;-). Mind you, the scenario in question isn't implausible if you're dealing with inexperienced demons. Makes a great adventure seed (pun intended) for PC angels to be responding to such a "hostage scenario"; see just how much damage they can do to the forces of Hell from this one stupid move. Make sure the demons in question are expendable NPCs or have some sort of good excuse (like being invited to the meeting without knowing the whole "angel" angle Reggie had), because any Demon Prince who hears his servitors were dumb enough to deliberately talk about their plans in front of an angel, no matter what "angle" they thought they had against said angel, will turn them into a smear of Forces on the ground faster than you can blink... - -- Mike Bruner-- mbruner18@comcast.net Give a hobbit a fish and he eats fish for a day. Give a hobbit a ring and he eats fish for an age. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 03:00:12 +1000 From: "Shane" Subject: Re: IN> Dueling Sequels On 5 May 2002, 15:43, Janet Anderson wrote: > >There's also another interesting little fact about Seraphim (of Flowers > >or otherwise) that Reggie the Demon has missed - the Seraphim Resonance > >for Truth doesn't require the user to understand what is being said... > >yep, that's right. Rose won't understand a word being said - but the > >Symphony knows all, and it is the Symphony that Rose is consulting for > >help in learning the Truth. > > Are you sure this is right? I don't think so; I think the Seraph has to > understand the language. (Hello, Beth? This is something I may actually > need to know for my game ...) First I should apologise for "yep, that's right". On re-reading, I sound awfully snobbish :p. I'm basing it on the description in the core book, "there are two sorts of truth to consider: the truth as the speaker understands it, and the absolute Truth as the Symphony knows it, the actual fact of the way things are" and "Once a Seraph invokes his resonance, the next thing he hears which relates a fact or expresses an opinion will be scrutinized for accuracy with respect to the speaker's point of view in the Symphony and, if the Seraph is lucky, as it relates to the Truth at large." (p94) Also "Divine resonance acts through an angel's Perception, reflecting his ability to attune himself to the Symphony and see meaning in its myriad patterns. The greater an angel's perceptive senses, the more likely he is to pull signal out of the noise of existance." (p56) Seraphim resonate for truth and Truth; it seems to me that while the source may /appear/ to their /mundane/ senses as noise (in this case, an unknown language) this doesn't make the patterns of that noise any less a meaningful part of the Symphony. For example, whether I say "my cat has brown fur" in english, "meine katze hat braunen pelz" in german, "mi gato tiene piel marron" in spanish, or "mon chat a la fourrure brune" in french (all courtesy of Google's translation software so excuse any machine mangling), the essential Truth of the statement remains the same. Shane. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 10:09:12 -0700 From: Kish Subject: Re: IN> Dueling Sequels Mike Bruner wrote: > > Besides the innate flaw in the demon's plan to begin with; he acted like > angels called in would be unable to fight, which neglected the obvious ploy > of them surrounding the demons and then the Seraph of Flowers dropping the > attunement I don't think it can be dropped. I could be wrong. Someone with an official word? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 13:19:41 -0400 From: EDG Subject: IN> Seraphim of Flowers (Was Re: Dueling Sequels) At 10:09 AM 5/5/02 -0700, you wrote: >I don't think it can be dropped. >I could be wrong. Someone with an official word? This doesn't exactly answer your question, but http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/faq/celestial_faq.html#rule-angels-seraphim-002 states that Seraphim can't ignore their own peace aura because "it's a part of them". - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 13:27:12 -0400 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Dueling Sequels At 03:00 AM 5/6/02 +1000, you wrote: >For example, whether I say "my cat has brown fur" in english, "meine >katze hat braunen pelz" in german, "mi gato tiene piel marron" in >spanish, or "mon chat a la fourrure brune" in french (all courtesy of >Google's translation software so excuse any machine mangling), the >essential Truth of the statement remains the same. I have two solutions to this (because, frankly, otherwise Seraphim would have no need for the Language skill or Corporeal Tongues): a) the Symphony responds in the language being spoken. Nyah, nyah. b) it depends on the check digit. 1 - The speaker does or does not think he's lying. You might not know what he does or doesn't think he's lying *about*. 2 - The speaker thinks X statement is most false, if he's lying. The Symphony simply gives "shades" to statements from white (absolute truth) to black (absolute falsehood), without necessarily translating them. 3 - The speaker chose to lie because of X reason. The Symphony tells you this so you can understand; this might give you an understanding of the general gist of it, from inference. 4 - The speaker believes the truth to be X. The Symphony tells you this so you can understand it; if he's told the truth as well, then you know what he's said. If he's told a lie, then you know the *opposite* of what he's said. 5 - The speaker does or does not know the Truth. This has nothing to do with what he's said, and so the Symphony's response (aside from the previous four CD responses, which you *also* get) won't translate for you. 6 - You know what the Truth is. Here, the Symphony will likely not only tell you the Truth but give you a rough approximation of what he said, so that you can tell the difference. Personally? I prefer the first option. There's a *reason* for the Language skill and the Corporeal Song of Tongues. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 13:38:59 -0400 From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" Subject: RE: IN> Dueling Sequels - -----Original Message----- From: EDG [mailto:anthoch@earlham.edu] Personally? I prefer the first option. There's a *reason* for the Language skill and the Corporeal Song of Tongues. - -EDG Not everyone is a Seraph. DS1 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 13:44:09 -0400 From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" Subject: RE: IN> Dueling Sequels - -----Original Message----- From: Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW) - -----Original Message----- From: EDG [mailto:anthoch@earlham.edu] Personally? I prefer the first option. There's a *reason* for the Language skill and the Corporeal Song of Tongues. - -EDG Not everyone is a Seraph. DS1 Apologies. I sort of answered that snidely. Been out to sea too long is the only defense I can offer. We pull in, after eight weeks at sea, in about two hours and everybody is a bit off center. But the song of Tongues is useful for other choirs and it is useful for Seraphs that don't want to resonate their way through every conversation with someone that doesn't speak a language that they know. I've never considered that a Seraph had to speak a person's language to resonate the Truth of a statement. I don't know that I've written out exactly what each check digit level would allow, but judged by the particular situation. Mostly I'd say I agree with the levels of comprehension you listed in the previous message. DS1 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 13:55:46 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim of Flowers (Was Re: Dueling Sequels) > This doesn't exactly answer your question, but > http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/faq/celestial_faq.html#rule-angels-seraphim - -002 > states that Seraphim can't ignore their own peace aura because "it's a part > of them". My VO4 game features a Flowerchild, and I let her expand or contract the effect with a successful roll. She'll never be able to turn it off, but it goes from "just affecting herself, and maybe someone she's in contact with" to "full area of effect with her at the center". Otherwise, the party'd either ditch her or kill her... Any word on when we can expect Superiors 5, Beth? - -- Casca " Here's the truth, which you know in your heads and hearts already: Ineffective, unfocused violence leads to more violence. Limp, panicky, half-measures lead to more violence. However, complete, fully-thought-through, professional, well-executed violence never leads to more violence because, you see, afterwards, the other guys are all ead." -- Gen. Richard E. Hawley (Ret) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 15:12:03 -0400 From: EDG Subject: IN> The Demon of Pain (Nightmares) Lack of inspiration alert! (5/20) - -EDG Hagrias Djinn of Nightmares Knight of Restlessness Demon of Pain Corporeal Forces: 3 Strength: 8 Agility: 4 Ethereal Forces: 6 Intelligence: 12 Precision: 12 Celestial Forces: 4 Will: 8 Perception: 8 Suggested Word-Forces: 6-8 Skills: Artistry (Dreamscapes/6), Detect Lies/2, Driving/2, Emote/6, Escape/4, Fighting/6, Knowledge (Anatomy/4, Music Theory/6, Psychology/4, Torture/4), Language (English/3, Italian/6), Large Weapon (Sword/3), Lying/2, Move Silently/4, Ranged Weapon (Handgun/4, Rifle/4, Shotgun/4), Running/6, Singing/6, Small Weapon (Claws/2, Knife/6), Tactics/2, Tracking/6 Songs: Charm (All/3), Dreams (Celestial/6), Entropy (Ethereal/6), Form (Ethereal/3, Celestial/3), Light (Ethereal/3), Motion (Ethereal/3), Tongues (Ethereal/3) Vessels: Human male/6, Human male/4 Roles: "Giuseppe diValle", opera composer and singer/6/5 (associated with the Vessel/4) Attunements: Djinn of Nightmares, Dream Walking, Terror, Demon of Pain Artifacts: Several relics/3, all operas, all with the Ethereal Song of Entropy Rites: Cause someone to dream of their own death. Demon of Pain: Hagrias does not take dissonance when he inflicts Mind Hits upon someone to whom he is attuned, so long as he and the victim are both in the victim's dreamscape. Hagrias is a strange Djinn: he seems to actually enjoy his work. Some call it the effect of Discord, although Hagrias does not have and has never had Discord. Some call it a mind warped by an imperfect fledging, which is also not true; although Hagrias is an honored demon now, he once worked for Heaven as a Cherub of Song, and Fell when his Archangel was Outcast. Where once he brought peace to dreamers, now he terrorized them; where his songs once soothed and comforted listeners, now they ate away at their victims' minds. Hagrias still loved Song - but if Heaven wanted no part of Song, then Hagrias was content to use it against them. Hagrias interprets his Word differently than many would; he sees it as his duty to bring anguish to humans, instead of actually hurting them. The threat or implication of pain is often more effective than the pain itself, and besides, people in the hospital can't come to his performances. To this end, he has crafted several relics whose corporeal presence takes the form of an opera. These relics do not need to be present to be invoked (they can be within Hagrias's total Forces * 100 yards), and must be performed all the way through to be effective; their power is to use the Ethereal Song of Entropy, at level 3, upon (100 * Essence spent) listeners. Giuseppe diValle is a reclusive composer, typically only appearing in public for performances. He is extraordinarily well-known, especially among society's elite, for not only being a writer of operas but a tremendous singer; diValle always has a part in his own shows, ranging from the male lead to an aging servant. Although his operas have themes of death, pain, mayhem, and inconsolable sadness, they are lauded for their uncanny power, which leaves the audience perhaps even more drained than the performers. The few critics he has point out that several cases of severe depression and paranoia have been linked to these operas, and that there are rumors going around that at least one member of the audience commits suicide within 24 hours of each performance. In his spare time, Hagrias is busy visiting the dreamscapes of his attuned, whom he chooses anew after every performance. In these, he typically appears as his secondary vessel, a tall, thin, gaunt man, whose details seem different to everybody but who always represents unspeakable anguish to the viewer. Here he is free to bring pain to his attuned, and those he visits almost *always* remember the nightmares he creates. (Hagrias is an NPC of medium power. He could show up anywhere, as Giuseppe diValle, to give a performance; alternately, rumors could begin going around about the tall, gaunt man who's started appearing in everyone's dreams. In a confrontation on the corporeal plane, Hagrias has quite a few skills, and on the celestial plane is a little tougher; it is in the Marches, however, that he really shines, and that he prefers to confront his attackers.) ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2623 ********************************