in_nomine-digest Tuesday, May 7 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2625 In this digest: Re: IN> [Novalis] Angel of Euphemism Re: IN> Seraphim of Flowers (Was Re: Dueling Sequels) Re: IN> Dueling Sequels Re: IN> Dueling Sequels Re: IN> Seraphim of Flowers (Was Re: Dueling Sequels) IN> Forcasting Stuff IN> Shedim (Re: Dueling Sequels.) Re: IN> A Sequel... Re: IN> Seraphim of Flowers (Was Re: Dueling Sequels) RE: IN> The Demon of Pain (Lust) Re: IN> Seraphim of Flowers (Was Re: Dueling Sequels) Re: IN> Seraphim of Flowers (Was Re: Dueling Sequels) Re: IN> Seraphim of Flowers (Was Re: Dueling Sequels) Re: IN> Seraphim of Flowers (Was Re: Dueling Sequels) IN> I admit that she'd be difficult to portray in a game... Re: IN> I admit that she'd be difficult to portray in a game... Re: IN> I admit that she'd be difficult to portray in a game... Re: IN> I admit that she'd be difficult to portray in a game... Re: IN> "Experience", time spent alive, and angel promotion... was The Angel of Specialists Re: IN> I admit that she'd be difficult to portray in a game... Re: IN> I admit that she'd be difficult to portray in a game... Re: IN> Alternate Factions IN> Crosstraining, Part I ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 17:33:16 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> [Novalis] Angel of Euphemism > ObIN: Now *that* would make an interesting demon - the Demon of > Misetymology, a Impudite of Fate whose Word-attunement is the ability to > use his Impudite of Fate attunement on the written or spoken word... Writeup! Writeup! WRITEUP!!!! - -- Casca "Many people hear voices when no-one is there. Some of them are called mad and are shut up in rooms where they stare at the walls all day. Others are called writers and they do pretty much the same thing." --Margaret Chittenden, writer ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 14:47:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim of Flowers (Was Re: Dueling Sequels) - --- Janet Anderson wrote: > I suspect this attunement wasn't run through playtesting > very thoroughly. It's not nearly as broken as all that. Remember that anyone can beat it without a roll just by getting out of range. This also gives the Seraph the option of allowing necessary violence to happen simply by walking away from a fight -- something which Novalis expects her angels to do pretty frequently anyway. ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 If your principles don't inconvenience you from time to time, you don't really have any. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 18:10:45 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Dueling Sequels >Say, does the Corporeal Song of Tongues translate Helltongue? It lasts for >hours and causes no disturbance. Nope. G:IN explicitly says so. >"I still don't like this ship. I have a queer feeling about it." >Chief Officer (of the Titanic) Henry Wilde, in a letter to his sister. > >BC Petery William ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 18:05:57 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Dueling Sequels At 5:22 PM +1000 5/5/02, Shane wrote: >On 5 May 2002, 2:29, William J. Keith wrote: > Rose won't understand a word being said - but the >Symphony knows all, and it is the Symphony that Rose is consulting for >help in learning the Truth. This only works with Really High check digits, I tend to rule. (And EDG's little CD chart is about the way I'd break it down, too. When'd he get some of my headguts?) I might be even more harsh. O:> Now, if you don't want that... they get that Mrapghw Shwarsh is the biggest lie, but if they don't know Helltongue they don't know what that is... But hey, they can always point out the lies and promote a bit of harmless ... truth. >Now imagine if Rose had the Seraphim of Judgement choir attunement. :) Seraphim of Judgment are really 'orrible, bless their pokerspined little hearts. O:> At 12:02 PM -0400 5/5/02, Eric Bertish wrote: >Add Seraph of Revelations and it gets even scarier: Uber-perception *and* >you get to pick your CD. > >That's a combo I'd be very reluctant to let a player have. *shudder* No kidding... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 18:05:04 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim of Flowers (Was Re: Dueling Sequels) At 1:19 PM -0400 5/5/02, EDG wrote: >At 10:09 AM 5/5/02 -0700, you wrote: > >>I don't think it can be dropped. >>I could be wrong. Someone with an official word? > >This doesn't exactly answer your question, but >http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/faq/celestial_faq.html#rule-angels-seraphim-002 >states that Seraphim can't ignore their own peace aura because "it's a part >of them". It's always been my take that it can't be dropped, no. However, GMs are free to change this, and I'd also likely suggest that certain attunements and Songs that work at a distance aren't violent -- but could be lethal, if done right. Other house rules, such as being able to shrink it, are perfectly reasonable as well. Mind, giving a Kyriotate of Flowers the Seraph of Flowers attunement can have all sorts of keen effects. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 18:00:23 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Forcasting Stuff At 1:55 PM -0400 5/5/02, Eric Bertish wrote: >Any word on when we can expect Superiors 5, Beth? It depends on how well the rest of the line -- especially the EPG -- sells. And if you don't want me to suggest things like RPG.net reviews of your favorite books (with, say, ways to use the data in someone's d20 game as well), then don't hand me straightlines like that! - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 18:18:01 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Shedim (Re: Dueling Sequels.) At 11:09 AM +1000 5/6/02, james walker wrote: >> Rose sat down in her chair again as the demons continued to plot >> and plan, sipping their tea and eating her homemade biscuits. It wasn't >> long before, as she'd suspected he would, the Shedite nodded off. Gluttony >> had taken its toll, and the Shedite had gotten a much larger dose of the >> soporific into his system. >Causing Rose dissonance. Not for drugging them; for killing the Shedite's >host. Enough soporifics to render a Shedite unconscious (which boots him out >of his host) will be instantly fatal for the poor hobo. Eh? No, that's not right. You can render a Shedite unconscious, whereupon, in 30 minutes, it's booted out of the host. This does not necessarily cause the host's death! It depends on if the Shedite has higher Strength and Corporeal Forces than his host, and by how much. Anyway, even so, the forces of Good have 30 minutes to get Bob out of there, or possessed by a big Kyriotate (call a Tether!), or festooned with Force Catchers (if he didn't already have one!). Then, there's a Shedite who will need to zip off to find another host, while Rose uses a Song of Healing on the hobo. (And, mind, even if the hobo dies -- she didn't use violence as a first resort. _Novalis_ might or might not get spanky on Rose's little Seraph tail, but unless Rose hadn't _thought_ about some way to spare the hobo -- it wasn't violence as a first resort.) Novalis might do something like pat her on the head for getting all the demons, and then nail her with a level of Merciful or something, to encourage her to think harder about fragile humans. >Also, as a Glutton, the Shedite will have used his Consume on both Rose and >Bob - both to avoid his daily dissonance, and as a habit from dealing with >demons of Drugs & Poison. There's a reason Gluttons aren't all addicts. Unless the Shedite had already done that previously. Not to mention that it _can_ be resisted. >If anyone will be drugging people, it'll be the demons giving Rose - and >possibly each other - doses of crack cocaine: the simplest way to recruit >for Drugs is causing Addictions. I think Rose could refuse. O:> >Also, remember that this cuts both ways - a demon with a sniper rifle can >pick off Seraphim of Flowers at will. (Oh, sure. It's the Kyrios of Flowers with that attunement who are a real pain. There you are, siting on one pigeon, and another lands on your shoulder.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 18:26:48 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> A Sequel... At 8:24 PM -0700 5/5/02, Michael Walton wrote: > An interesting idea, but not workable. All Rose would >have to do is call in the Malakim -- and then leave. The >demons would know that; they'd either hightail it out of >there or get chopped to pieces. No, no, no, why bother calling the Malakim? Pick up the phone, call a Tether. Explain the situation. (If you were sent in there without perfectly true codewords, then shame on your superiors!) If they cut the phone lines, smile sweetly, hold your flowerpots, and blow all your Essence. Mama Novalis is probably overkill, but then again, capturing a half-dozen demons, alive where they can be questioned and then handed over to redemption squads, might be something Novalis'd like. It does show a bit less imagination than, say, drugging their tea does, though. Mama Novalis likes it better if you can deliver the snoozing demons to a Tether yourself, so she doesn't have to show up. O;> (Hmmm... I can tell the Novalis writeup is going to need a Dirty Tricks section. Things like Tea relics, with Song of Sleep in them, or other stuff to make sure that anyone who thinks a Flowers Seraph is a pushover will be... er... proven wrong.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 18:52:57 -0400 From: Mike Bruner Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim of Flowers (Was Re: Dueling Sequels) At 02:47 PM 5/6/02 -0700, you wrote: >--- Janet Anderson wrote: > > I suspect this attunement wasn't run through playtesting > > very thoroughly. > > It's not nearly as broken as all that. Remember that >anyone can beat it without a roll just by getting out of >range. This also gives the Seraph the option of allowing >necessary violence to happen simply by walking away from a >fight -- something which Novalis expects her angels to do >pretty frequently anyway. People talk about "going out of range", but by my read that could take some serious moving, considering it's a yard per +1 to resist. Even with your standard 9 Force Seraph, I'd think the distance you'd need to move for a successful check might take some time to reach or be impossible if in tight quarters. And again, by the setup it is harder for the average angel to resist than the average demon, which to me is inexcusable in a angelic power (unless you run a Dark campaign and Novalis has a hidden interest in making sure every angelic group is forced to resort to nonviolence first, no matter the risk to the angels in question...). - -- Mike Bruner-- mbruner18@comcast.net Give a hobbit a fish and he eats fish for a day. Give a hobbit a ring and he eats fish for an age. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 17:22:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: RE: IN> The Demon of Pain (Lust) Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 09:15:56 -0400 From: EDG Subject: RE: IN> The Demon of Pain (Lust) >>At 03:03 PM 5/2/02 +0200, you wrote: >>Moe did an angel of Kinky Sex, and it works really, >>really well. I would imagine that this here >>balseraph would be in all sorts of agony as soon as >>that malakite gets her hands on the demon..;) Yup. :) >And she'd *love* it despite herself... ;) And imagine the look on Kandiel's face when she realizes this... ;) Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/13/02(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 20:52:28 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim of Flowers (Was Re: Dueling Sequels) >Mind, giving a Kyriotate of Flowers the Seraph of Flowers attunement can >have all sorts of keen effects. ... :9 I have got to put a Kyriotate in a game soon, preferably with one of these neat things to do with them that keep popping up on the list. so far, I've seen: Kyrios of Lightning tricks with materials Kyrios of Wind with Swipe Kyrios of Flowers with the Seraph Attunement I suppose the Kyrios themselves would be gratified at their multiple uses in a game. ;^) >--emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor >RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ William ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 20:12:57 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim of Flowers (Was Re: Dueling Sequels) From: "William J. Keith" > > ... :9 I have got to put a Kyriotate in a game soon, preferably with one > of these neat things to do with them that keep popping up on the list. It just occurred to me that a 10-force Kyrio of the Sword with Scabbard could be scary. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 23:01:52 -0400 From: "Patrick None" Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim of Flowers (Was Re: Dueling Sequels) > Kyrios of Lightning tricks with materials > > I suppose the Kyrios themselves would be gratified at their multiple uses > in a game. ;^) > My game (set in hilly, bike messenger ridden, traffic snarled and weird street packed SF) has a tether to the Wind that is the Nations oldest bicycle messenger service. For whatever reason (its a War Story), the Kyrio Seneschal has the lightening attunement, which he's been quietly using to spy on the rest of SF for the decade he's had it - sending a force into a car stereo or palm pilot and just letting those Forces circulate, listening. Is this okay, via the rules? Does he make a big disturbance? Or are Kyrioate of Jean the most hideous spies of all? Or something. Patrick ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 21:31:14 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim of Flowers (Was Re: Dueling Sequels) Mike Bruner wrote: > People talk about "going out of range", but by my read that could take some> serious moving, considering it's a yard per +1 to resist. Even with your> standard 9 Force Seraph, I'd think the distance you'd need to move for a> successful check might take some time to reach or be impossible if in tight> quarters. You don't bring Seraphim of Flowers into tight-quarter combat situations. > And again, by the setup it is harder for the average angel to > resist than the average demon, which to me is inexcusable in a angelic > power ANY power which is resisted by Will is easier for the average demon to resist than the average angel. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 19:29:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> I admit that she'd be difficult to portray in a game... ...but that's not /my/ problem. :) Moe PS: Need I say that this isn't exactly the most serious NPC that I've ever written up? ;) Sachluph Cherub Friend of the Gardeners Angel of Profanity Corporeal Forces: 3 Strength: 6 Agility: 6 Ethereal Forces: 6 Intelligence:12 Precision: 12 Celestial Forces: 5 Will: 9 Perception: 11 Word-Forces: 5 Vessel: petite human female/3, +2 Charisma Skills: Artistry/6 (poetry), Dodge/6, Emote/6, Knowledge (Invective/6, Literature/3, Research/6), Languages/3 (Lots), Savoir-Faire/6, Singing/3 Songs: Charm (All/2), Harmony (All/3), Healing (All/3), Shields (All/3), Tongues (All/6, virtuoso) Attunements: Cherub of Flowers, Mercurian of Flowers, Cherub of Revelations, Cherub of War, Crown of Joy, Nothing But Flowers, Friend of the Gardeners, Angel of Profanity Angel of Profanity: Sachluph is very, very good at swearing. She is so good, in fact, that when she really gets going (makes a Precision roll at -2) she can cause everyone within earshot to stop and listen, openmouthed, to her exquisite command of language and colorful imagery. All listeners must make a Will Roll at -4 to shake off the effects: if Sachluph has a hand free and gesturing, the roll is at -6. Rites: Spend a ten minutes swearing at something that deserves to be sworn at, without repeating yourself once and with at least three original phrases made up on the spot. Obviously, you've never actually listened to Servitors of Flowers when they're off duty - otherwise, that eyebrow wouldn't be up. There is a legitimate reason that Heaven in general and Flowers in particular support this Word. What might help clear things up is that the concept involved is somewhat hard to properly translate into English: 'profanity' is merely the best of a set of not really suitable words used to describe what Sachluph does for a living. The Word could be better translated as "Use of colorful language to relieve tension and provide a safe expression for potentially dangerous violent impulses", but that's a bit of a mouthful. 'Profanity' works, more or less: you just have to shed the negative connotations. Look, if it's a problem, just shift all the letters over one and call her the Angel of Qspgbojuz, or anything else that helps with the cognitive dissonance. The limitation inherent in all corporeal tongues isn't exactly Heaven's fault, you know. Anyway... Servitors of Flowers need to be able to swear. It's part of their general tension-relief techniques: working for Novalis can sometimes be a bit internally stressful. Dedicating yourself to peace doesn't mean that you magically lose all those violent impulses, after all - and s u b limating them never ends well. Much better by far to have a recognized, therapeutic outlet that doesn't cause any physical harm, and is even poetic, in it's own special way. All of this leads up to why the Glades has an annual Oath-making Night, and the local champions routinely trounce why all outsiders that sign up to compete. Sachluph was one of those champions: indeed, she was *the* champion, even before she got her Word. Nobody could even come close to her for over a century (lots tried, though): some people are just good at certain things, and there's no rational explanation why. The Cherub was so good at it, in fact, that the only way that Novalis could think to give the others a chance was to sponsor her for the Word of Profanity. Needless to say, the Council... actually, the Council pretty much collectively shrugged and rubberstamped the petition. They were wise enough to see the benefits of a safety valve, after all. Michael did do some pro forma grumbling, but that got shut down fairly quickly when Sachluph smiled sweetly at him and offered to provide a rebuttal - in private. Unfortunately, Superior-level shielding prevented an increasingly interested Seraphim Council from hearing anything except the dull hum of Sachluph's voice from the adjacent room where she and Michael adjourned. Said hum quickly raised in volume over the next hour until it had reached a crescendo of sound, followed by dead silence for at least a minute. After that minute, the Council Chambers was filled (at one remove, no less) with the whooping laughter of the Archangel of War: he wasn't actually staggering when he walked back in (Michael never staggers), but there might have been just a little bit of unsteadiness as he honest-to-God chortled his way back to his seat. Sachluph's promotion was a formality after that (although that formality was perhaps marred by a low voice chuckling, "True! It was all True!" throughout). Since then, if anything Sachluph has gotten better at evoking her Word. She is never crude, and never mean - - but she is incredibly good at getting her point across, and is given the respect due a true virtuoso. Sachluph has done her best to make her Word useful to Heaven in general: she is the author of the standard work on human insults, profanity (of course), cursing, swearing, blasphemy, imprecation and general invective. That's why she has the Attunement from Litheroy: the one from Michael should be self-explanatory. Indeed, the Cherub is one of the few Servitors of Flowers automatically welcome anywhere that Warriors gather. Indeed, her only problem with them is that, when she gets started, they keep shouting, "Slow down! Slow down!" as they frantically jot down the choicer phrases in little notebooks. Oh, well, it keeps them out of fights when she's around. ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/13/02(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 22:45:00 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> I admit that she'd be difficult to portray in a game... > Sachluph > Cherub Friend of the Gardeners > Angel of Profanity I think the cognitive dissonance would be greater if she were a Seraph. ;;;) > Vessel: petite human female/3, +2 Charisma I'm sure you meant to say Vessel: little old lady with crocheted shawl/3, right? > Songs: Charm (All/2), Harmony (All/3), Healing > (All/3), Shields (All/3), Tongues (All/6, virtuoso) Which is the song that gets stuff stuck in your head? Ethereal plagues, I think? She needs that one. - -- Casca " Here's the truth, which you know in your heads and hearts already: Ineffective, unfocused violence leads to more violence. Limp, panicky, half-measures lead to more violence. However, complete, fully-thought-through, professional, well-executed violence never leads to more violence because, you see, afterwards, the other guys are all ead." -- Gen. Richard E. Hawley (Ret) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 22:55:05 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> I admit that she'd be difficult to portray in a game... Forgot this: Under certain circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer. - - Mark Twain, a Biography - -- Casca " Here's the truth, which you know in your heads and hearts already: Ineffective, unfocused violence leads to more violence. Limp, panicky, half-measures lead to more violence. However, complete, fully-thought-through, professional, well-executed violence never leads to more violence because, you see, afterwards, the other guys are all ead." -- Gen. Richard E. Hawley (Ret) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 19:59:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> I admit that she'd be difficult to portray in a game... - --- Eric Bertish wrote: > > Sachluph > > Cherub Friend of the Gardeners > > Angel of Profanity > > I think the cognitive dissonance would be greater if > she were a Seraph. ;;;) It was a tough call. > > Vessel: petite human female/3, +2 Charisma > > I'm sure you meant to say Vessel: little old lady > with crocheted shawl/3, > right? Another tough call, but I suppose that she's got access to another Vessel by now. :) > > Songs: Charm (All/2), Harmony (All/3), Healing > > (All/3), Shields (All/3), Tongues (All/6, > virtuoso) > > Which is the song that gets stuff stuck in your > head? Ethereal plagues, I > think? She needs that one. I think I know the one that you're talking about: that'd be amusing to add. I really should go through the Liber Cant, and muck around generally with the Song levels anyway. > " Here's the truth, which you know in your heads and > hearts already: > Ineffective, unfocused violence leads to more > violence. Limp, panicky, > half-measures lead to more violence. However, > complete, > fully-thought-through, professional, well-executed > violence never leads to > more violence because, you see, afterwards, the > other guys are all > ead." -- Gen. Richard E. Hawley (Ret) > Sing it, brother. :) Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/13/02(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 09:49:28 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> "Experience", time spent alive, and angel promotion... was The Angel of Specialists Janet Anderson wrote: > Earl Wajenberg, have I mentioned to you what impeccable taste in > literature you have? :) Thank you kindly. Chesterton is a great source for zippy little quotes, as I trust the previous examples show. Slipping the phrase "G. K. Chesterton" to any decent search engine will get you long lists of such quote. He even has a second-order IN tie-in, in the manner of the "N degrees of separation" game. One of Percy's inspirations, mentioned in the main book biblio, is Gaiman's "Sandman" (for gritty modern fantasy, I suppose, not to mention the theological connections and some creatures resembling Uber-Wordbound). One of the Sandman characters, Fiddler's Green, deliberately took the appearance of G. K. Chesterton when it sojourned on Earth, and seemed to have rather the same personality. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 22:42:42 -0500 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> I admit that she'd be difficult to portray in a game... - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice Lane" To: "IN List" Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 9:29 PM Subject: IN> I admit that she'd be difficult to portray in a game... [snip] > Indeed, her only problem with them is that, when she gets > started, they keep shouting, "Slow down! Slow down!" as > they frantically jot down the choicer phrases in little > notebooks. What kind of Servitors of War are these? You're supposed to improvise! You adapt! You overcome! And at the very @**!%#!! least, the second or third @#$&^(&^$^%@@#!! time around you display the @&%$&&&*#$%!!!! wit to come armed with a @!^)*$%!%$!%%!!! tape recorder. :-) - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 00:58:26 -0300 From: "vez o'rama" Subject: Re: IN> I admit that she'd be difficult to portray in a game... >From: Maurice Lane >Subject: IN> I admit that she'd be difficult to portray in a game... >Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 19:29:51 -0700 (PDT) >Sachluph >Cherub Friend of the Gardeners >Angel of Profanity "Oh bull dookey. Darn. Eep. Sugar. A-diddley." - - The Angel of Euphemism, upon hearing of Sachluph's successful petition. :) Of course, you know, shortly thereafter he was smiling happily and _trying_ to put a positive spin on the whole thing. ;) - - vez _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 22:48:32 -0700 From: WonderGecko Subject: Re: IN> Alternate Factions On 06.05.2002 12:17 PM, "Earl Wajenberg" wrote: > Maurice Lane wrote: > >> Ehh. I've always disliked the War/Peace breakdown: >> all of the Archangels want to see the end of Hell, >> after all. A better dichotemy for Heaven would be >> Force / Persuasion: > > A classic factional division for Heaven would be Justice vs. Mercy. I don't know who it is who's been taking the stand (curse my memory) that the incredible...friction...between the factions in Heaven seems a little...out of place. I mean, it's Heaven, after all! But Justice vs. Mercy seems to make much more sense to my little mind than Peace vs. War. Force vs. Persuasion is interesting, too, but Justice vs. Mercy seems to summarize it better. > > For Hell, an interesting division would be between the World > and the Flesh -- that is, between what Dorothy L. Sayers called > the "respectable" sins (avarice, envy, pride) that masquerade as > virtues, and the "unrespectable" ones (wrath, gluttony, lust) > that make a naked appeal to desire. Or between Destruction and > Corruption. Ooo, very interesting. *carts it off to mull* Now, does anyone have an idea where, outside of Warehouse 23, I might be able to acquire the core rulebooks? >.< I think I have learned all that I conceivably can by scrounging around on the 'Net. Which is no small amount! - --Kim, Angel of Random Enthusiasm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 23:37:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Crosstraining, Part I Crosstraining, Part I "You have to admit, it's an odd request." Laurence nodded. "Yes, Lord Marc, I suppose that it is. But a necessary one." The two Archangels were sitting in Marc's personal tent in the Bazaar. While the Archangel of Trade has a very nice Cathedral, there's something to be said for keeping one's finger firmly on the pulse of one's Word, and the beat was always easier to hear at ground level. Even in Heaven, it takes time for the latest gossip, rumors and news to percolate their way up Marc's Tower: it never hurt to be on the scene. Besides, the coffee seller three stalls down was the best in Heaven, and showed no interest in joining Trade's personal staff: perforce, Marc went to the mountain. The Archangel of Trade stirred his coffee absently as he contemplated his guest. "Lord Laurence, I am of course always at your disposal. But still..." Marc waved, his hand encompassing the busy Traders around him - "Why do you want an internship?" Laurence surprised him by actually chuckling, faintly. "So that I can get more work out of you, of course." The resulting raised eyebrow was eloquent. Laurence chuckled again. "It is actually very straightforward, Lord Marc. Quite recently, I was in a situation where I was asked for advice by one of my Servitors on a matter that... I had actually very little experience. As it turned out, my advice was not actually needed; he merely wanted someone to make appropriate noises while he worked out what he was going to do anyway. He did so, and his solution was honorable, and we are here to provide inspiration for those angels who serve us, so it would seem that everything worked out well." The Archangel of the Sword's face lengthened slightly. "However, it occurred to me afterwards that, if it had been necessary to actually give the cou n s el that is my duty and privilege to provide, things might not have gone so well. I am expected to be a font of answers, as are you, and as are all of our colleagues: with that responsibility comes another - to actually be a font of answers. I should be expert, or at least not completely unversed, in everything that touches upon my duties - and my duties involve every aspect of the War. "And there is quite a bit about the War that I have no or little direct experience in. Before my elevation, I concentrated on one Word, one arena, one mindset; since then, I have been frankly so busy dealing with the forest that very few trees have gotten my personal attention." Laurence's face cleared. "However, things are finally - finally - starting to come well in hand, and I can afford to 'fill in the blanks', as it were." "Thus your visit?" "Thus my visit, Lord Marc. I know your value to the War. You have continually provided the Council with the information and resources that we all need so badly, and have never frivolously used the power that it gives you. I respect your work. I appreciate it. I rely on it." Laurence stood. "But I do not really understand it, and if we are to win I must learn to understand it." He waved one wing hastily. "Not as well as you do, of course! No, that would hubristic of me. But I can at least try to learn something about how and why you do things. If nothing else, it will allow me to weave your work more thoroughly into the larger tapestry of the War." The faint smile was back. "And perhaps avoid giving you foolish orders. I am sure that you have gotten some from me in the past, even if you are too polite to say so." Marc repressed his own smile, out of that very same politeness. The tent was silent for a time. "There will have to be some ground rules established, Lord Laurence." The Archangel of the Sword nodded. "But, of course." Marc did smile this time. "Don't be too quick to agree. First off: if we're going to do this, you'll have to act like a Trader, not the Archangel of the Sword. That means following my lead on everything that isn't an honest to God actual military emergency. This is about how I do my job, not how you would do my job. I know that you trust me, so I'm not really worried about that, but I want to say it for the record. Agreed?" "Of course, Lord Marc. My oath on it, if you wish." "Actually, I'll take you up on that - and it'll be for your sake, not mine. That leads me to my second condition: you were planning to do this with the rest of the Council, correct?" At Laurence's nod, Marc went on: "Good idea, as long as it doesn't come back to haunt some of us." The Archangel of Trade stood and looked out at the Bazaar for a moment, then turned. "You've trusted me to do my job, without asking me how I do it, or what ... ambiguities I've had to embrace in order to do it. I don't see that lack of oversight enduring for too long, under the circumstances. You will see me do certain things that I know that you'll disapprove of, but you have to keep on trusting me - and I have to trust that you won't use that knowledge to persecute me later, or my people. Practically speaking, if you do, nobody else will let you see what they really do for the War, anyway, so it's in your best interest to agree. Agreed on that, too?" Laurence was more hesitant this time before replying. "I... reserve the right to point out what I conceive to be a grievous error." His voice grew stern. "I will not tolerate treason, either - not that you have ever given me reason to think that of you, of course." Marc snorted. "No, no treason - but there will be squirming involved. That oath you promised earlier will apply here, as well. You will see at least evil - - and, unless we or humans are actually threatened by it, you have to let the choice about ending it be mine." The Archangel of Trade raised his hand. "I swear on my own part that this will only apply when you're with me on a lesson, and will end when we're done. Will that do?" The pause was long. "If my education is successful, then I will be letting the lesser evil go in order to fight the greater one. Irritating, but sometimes necessary. Very well, Lord Marc, I so swear." Marc grinned. "That brings us to the last and final condition. It's just Marc, Larry." He held out a hand. "Welcome to the team. "Now, let's go talk to your cook." ... One week later, the two Archangels found themselves on Earth. Marc had found it surprisingly easy to convince Laurence to choose appropriate clothing, but the posture was still a problem. "For Heaven's sake, Larry, there isn't anyone within a thousand miles that could even make you raise a sweat. You can relax. Here, have a soda." Laurence raised an eyebrow. Marc idly wondered which Archangel had first introduced the facial gesture: it had been so long ago that even Superior-level memories weren't helping, much. "Well, perhaps you won't, then. But try to blend in more, at least. We want to be inconspicuous." The Archangel of the Sword shrugged slightly. "True, Marc... but it is hard. This has been the first time in a thousand years that I have encountered one of - Them - without immediately reaching for a blade, and I did not enjoy the experience the last time." "Who did, Larry? Not us, not them - and I still think that they would have ambushed us afterwards if they dared, the cowards." Marc smiled crookedly at Laurence's narrowing of the eyes. "I never said that I liked any of Them, just that I have no problems with selling Them the knives to stick in each other's backs. I also recognize that a few of Them can be... ambiguous, in their own turn. Business is business - but get the signatures in advance, and make sure that They don't break the contract. Besides, only one of Them can negotiate worth a - well, only one of Them can negotiate well, and she won't be here today." Marc looked up. "Ah. Here he comes." The Archangel of Trade most carefully did not say anything about behaving. Laurence gritted his teeth as the Prince of Gluttony sat down on the other end of the picnic table. Haagenti was making an effort to fit in on his own, but there was still a lingering hint of that hateful smell. Old cheese and older blood... Haagenti snorted. "I will be damned. You actually got him to sit still for this." Marc's voice was light, and faintly mocking. "Under strict conditions, Haagenti. You remember them?" "Sure. Come right here, go right back to Hell when we're done, no snacking on the way - or back - and no getting any cute ideas, or Mr. Boy Scout here cuts me twenty new mouths." Haagenti hastily went on as Laurence began to grow cold, "And no smart-ass comments, either now or later. That one just slipped out. I guess that I'm sorry about that. Hey, I brought you something..." He plopped a dingy, crumbling bag on the table. It took all of Laurence's self-control to not visibly react as the Prince of Gluttony pulled out - a wrapped gold plate. "Washed and everything, just like always. I should say, this year's was really, really good..." Haagenti squinted at Laurence. "Well, maybe I shouldn't say." He turned to look at Marc. "So, you called me. What do you want?" "What we both want, of course. Belial's head on a platter." The Prince snorted. "Not quite. Not that I don't like barbeque, but if you think that I'm ready to go for broke, think again. Besides, he keeps that cra... he keeps Gabriel distracted, and that's good for my side and bad for yours. We'll work out who eats who after the War's done." Marc leaned back: incredibly, he smiled. "Well, you asked me what I want, and I told you. What I'm willing to settle for... that's a different story. Do you know that he just got some new Tethers in?" "Yeah. He's been keeping quiet about them. I don't know where they are, though." "I do - and he even knows that I know." Haagenti grew still. "Keep talking." "It's fairly simple. I tell you, you take them out, he blames me, I ... well, suffice it to say that I've got that angle covered if he tries to retaliate. You get to screw him over and keep your hands clean, I get to report that Belial's latest expansion went down in flames and he gets to look like the idiot that he is. It won't win the War, but it will make both of us feel all tingly inside. I don't see the downside." "I do. How many Tethers are we talking about?" "Ten." The Prince of Gluttony laughed: his teeth were surprisingly good. "Ten? Ten? No way I'll do ten. One, sure, two, probably: four, if you made it worth my while. But ten is too rich for my blood, no matter how much I hate the scumbag. Go find yourself another patsy." Haagenti stood up to leave. As he turned, Laurence quietly said, "You have not heard what is in it for you personally." ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/13/02(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2625 ********************************