in_nomine-digest Wednesday, May 8 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2628 In this digest: IN> re: shield artifact Re: IN> Silly question IN> Crosstraining, Part II IN> A Sequel... Re: IN> David and Peace IN> A Sequel... Subject: IN> David and Peace IN> Superior Coffee IN> David and Peace Re: IN> A Sequel... IN> Dueling Sequels Re: IN> Superior Coffee (Warning. The Non-Canon light is on.) RE: IN> A Sequel... Re: Re: IN> Superior Coffee (Warning. The Non-Canon light is on.) IN> Wallpaper - continued Re: Re: IN> Superior Coffee (Warning. The Non-Canon light is on.) Re: IN> Dueling Sequels Re: IN> Superior Coffee (Warning. The Non-Canon light is on.) Re: IN> Superior Coffee (Warning. The Non-Canon light is on.) IN> Superior Coffee Prefernces Re: IN> Superior Coffee (Warning. The Non-Canon light is on.) Re: IN> Superior Coffee (Warning. The Non-Canon light is on.) IN> Two Windy attunements Re: IN> Silly question Re: IN> Crosstraining, Part II Re: IN> Crosstraining, Part II Re: IN> Wallpaper - continued IN> Better a Kyrio than an Archer. Re: IN> Wallpaper - continued Re: IN> Wallpaper - continued IN> And yet more wallpaper! Re: IN> And yet more wallpaper! Re: IN> Crosstraining, Part II Re: IN> A Sequel... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 11:52:24 -0400 From: "Patrick None" Subject: IN> re: shield artifact Ohhh, tres sexy! Michael (ahem, IMINC) hands out a lot of Fight enhanced brass knuckles or Small Weapon enhanced small knives, with the Trackable and Immediatly Recognizable as an Artifact flaws. Since the campaign revolves around undermining the Flowers faction of San Francisco without just attacking them, its worked out. Angels of Michael wander around, Demons see 'em, fights ensue, its all the Demons fault. Well, he can only stay in an inanimate object for a few minutes, and has to make a roll to possess the next thing on the list. Eventually, he's going to get an Infernal Intervention... Otherwise, yes. Kyriotates of Lightning are wicked spies. O:> Thanks! ")_ ^_^ Patrick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 08:12:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Silly question - --- Chris Anthony wrote: > If he uses the Celestial Song of Shields (with a > Reliquary to generate the > requisite Essence), would it then be a case of not being > able to see the forest for the tree? ;) If the any angel of Flowers has a Role working in a flower shop and uses Nothing But Flowers to hide in the woods, it's a case of not being able to see the florist for the trees. 0;> ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 If your principles don't inconvenience you from time to time, you don't really have any. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 11:17:30 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Crosstraining, Part II Ummm... In Liber Canticorum, under the Corporeal Song of Succor, it says that Manna is one of the few substances Haagenti will not eat. "I don't want the whole world, I only want your half." - They Might Be Giants Pete, Demon of Misinformation http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/IN/pete.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 11:17:55 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> A Sequel... >"You used me as bait, in order to kill," Rose sputtered in his outrage. > >"Just as a venus flytrap does," Azzur replied calmly, "But if it helps salve >your conscience, we don't plan on killing any of the other Hellspawn we >captured, although I'm certain that they will wish that we'd just killed >them, before we're through. They're far more valuable to us as sources of >information than as corpses." BIG MISTAKE!!!! The Seraph of Flowers Atunemnt requires a will roll to take /Violent Action/. Many people assume that just because they are not killing or injuring that are not acting violently. * >From the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language: vi_o_lence n. 1. Physical force exerted for the purpose of violating, damaging, or abusing. 2. The act or an instance of violent action or behavior. 3. Intensity or severity, as in natural phenomena; untamed force. 4. Abusive or unjust exercise of power. 5. Abuse or injury to meaning, content, or intent. 6. Vehemence of feeling or expression; fervor. * "damaging" and "injuring" are used only once, each. Wrestling and Akido are both classified as Martial Arts. The commando style raid above would be termed an "assault." A more likely result of the raid would be the Djinn's head turning into a cloud of red mist, the angels bursting in and, much to their surprise, being unable to bring force to bear on the demons. Peace means just that: PEACE. Munchkin go home. Infact the more I think about it, there is no mention of violent /physical/ action. The Djinn of Nighmares might not be able to try frightening Soldier Bob. Emotional violence, doncha know. People think trees are helpless because they can chop them down, but when car meets tree it's the car that needs to be hauled away. "I still don't like this ship. I have a queer feeling about it." Chief Officer (of the Titanic) Henry Wilde, in a letter to his sister. BC Petery http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/ Doodle Doodle Dee, Wubba Wubba Wubba, BC Petery http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 12:22:32 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> David and Peace >For some reason I'm reminded of the Marine Corp slogan "Semper fi." I think >David would interpret that phrase differently than he used to. Consider that >the two younger Cherubim archangels, Blandine and Novalis, remained loyal to >their original mission, while David did not. Coincidently neither Cherub >gets along well with David now, or he with them. I'm not sure if there is >any intended deep meaning to be derived from that detail, but it is >interesting that there are *no* masculine-aspected Cherubim Archangels. I >wonder how the peace/war, judgment/mercy factions in Heaven would change if >there were a masculine-aspected Cherub archangel around? Hmm, that is >another post for another time, I'm all Vaklemp, talk amongst yourself... > >Vaughn There's Christopher, but he's minor and found in Night Music, so that's understandable. (Zadkiel, another minor one, is also female, and I'm pretty sure she's a Cherub, too.) Yah, there are no major masculine-aspected Cherub Archangels. Loyalty is certainly a big part of the ideals of Stone; in Sup1 it says that many angels of stone take deep vows of loyalty to their comrades and to David, in a sort of combination of the Malakite and Cherub way. But you raise an excellent point; *nobody* sees loyalty like a Cherub, and I think this makes a good component to the nasty relations between Blandine and Novalis, and David. Something interesting to consider is what would happen if Blandine or Novalis took on a male aspect for some reason. In Sup3, it never mentions Blandine taking a male form, in explicit contrast to Sup1 taking at least a sentence or two to describe the female forms of several Archangels. Hmm... perhaps in some societies where a traditionally male shaman was said to be the one connected to the dreamworld? William ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 12:53:45 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> A Sequel... >The question then becomes "Will losing track of the demon that organised >the gathering in the seraph's apartment outweigh the benefits of >capturing >its companions, and preventing the demons from further terrorising the >soldier staying there with the seraph?" The Demon in Charge is obviously an idiot. Vessel killing him to intimidate the others might be a sound tactical move. Did you remember to Spell Check today? BC Petery http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 12:53:45 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: Subject: IN> David and Peace /But didn't the name for Botzwank's home world mean "That which holds our roots in safety"?/ -Leader Idow, "Illegal Aliens" Yours in Triviality, BC Petery http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 12:53:45 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Superior Coffee >>Relic: Jean's Flask >>The kind of coffee >>the flask makes depends on what level it is.... >Aye, but can it do Irish, and how much do they cost the blessed souls? "Black as the devil an sweet as a stolen kiss." -Valefor ("*Sigh* No cream, two sugars." -Valefor a second later) "Piping hot with tobasco sauce." -Belial Help! I'm typing and I can't logoff! BC Petery http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 12:53:45 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> David and Peace >If you just consider, for example, a drug addict, there is >almost no overlap in the two angels' methods. I'd see >Davidians including a pummeling of the addict's supplier >in their array of techniques, whereas the Flowerchildren >are probably going to be looking into more formal rehab. >Since guiding and protecting humanity is after all the >core mission of angels on Earth, I can see this leading >to the two Superiors' mutually poor opinions. Then again there is the British method. Government Rehab required addicts to go to a government doctor to get their drugs. It has been compared to asking your mom for a fix. Just think: Embarrassed Straight. Help! I'm typing and I can't logoff! BC Petery http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 12:34:35 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> A Sequel... From: "BC Petery" > > > >"Just as a venus flytrap does," Azzur replied calmly, "But if it helps salve > >your conscience, we don't plan on killing any of the other Hellspawn we > >captured, although I'm certain that they will wish that we'd just killed > >them, before we're through. They're far more valuable to us as sources of > >information than as corpses." > > BIG MISTAKE!!!! Not at all. > vi_o_lence n. > 1. Physical force exerted for the purpose of violating, damaging, or > abusing. The only physical force being used was to restrain. > 4. Abusive or unjust exercise of power. Neither of which applied to how the demons were being captured. > "damaging" and "injuring" are used only once, each. Wrestling and Akido are > both classified as Martial Arts. The commando style raid above would be > termed an "assault." No, it would be termed an "arrest." And it is possible for someone to be arrested non-violently. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 13:37:28 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Dueling Sequels > Marc buys up the shops on either side of the Alley, gets approval to build a [snip] > Infernal tether dies - phut. And Fleurity hands the ball to Mammon! With Nybbas blocking he's going for the end zone! Ooh, better yet! Fleurity builds a GNC, an Eckerd's Drugs, one of those diet clinics that sells diet drugs... Oh wait, it was a tether to Fear. Maybe it would move on with the junkies. In Heaven and Hell there are two circuses the travel around North America. I have the strength of ten because my Heart is intact. Pete, Demon of Misinformation http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/IN/pete.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 15:33:33 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Superior Coffee (Warning. The Non-Canon light is on.) >>>Relic: Jean's Flask >>>The kind of coffee >>>the flask makes depends on what level it is.... > >>Aye, but can it do Irish, and how much do they cost the blessed souls? > >"Black as the devil an sweet as a stolen kiss." -Valefor >("*Sigh* No cream, two sugars." -Valefor a second later) > >"Piping hot with tobasco sauce." -Belial > "Bushmills 1608"- Fleurity "Hey, that was my order."- Eli "Sure, it might be slightly radioactive, but my flask has better bean-to-coffee taste ratio."- Vapula ::grumbling:: "I haven't been able to get a good cup of coffee on Earth ever since that moron at McDonald's scalded herself."- Gabriel "Are you kidding me!? That case launched CourtTV! Gimme a quintuple expresso!"- Nybbas "Be careful, you can have too much of a good thing."- Blandine "Yeah, but have you seen what happens after they burn out?"- Beleth "I think that's what she was refering to. Double latte, whipped cream, sugared rim, and a cinnamon stick."- Novalis "The same."- Michael ::blink... shrug:: "Black."- David "Got any biscotti? Donuts? Crumb cakes? Shoot."- Haagenti "I'll trade you a brownie... Oh, I'll have an Irish. Put it on my tab."- Marc "Oh, don't worry about that, Marc, I can cover you. Cuban blend for me."- Lilith ::still stunned from the revelation that Nybbas is behind his favorite channel::- Dominic "Will you order already? Hey there. I want a latte, a shot of expresso, not on the side, but added in because that way the coffees really start working together, after which I'll take three cappuchinos and a mocha, then give me another expresso, but this time make it a Nybbas special followed with some of those heavily sugar-laced chocolate brownies and then Jamaican Blue to wash those down. And can you hurry, I've got an appointment in the Mid West to get to in about six minutes."- Janus. "Nah, don't worry about the coffee. Can you just give me about 2000 sugar cubes?"- Jordi ::animating a dozen anthills:: "Herbal tea, please"- Laurence ("Darnit Laurence, it's a coffee shop! Enjoy yourself!"- Novalis) ::wistfully:: "I remember once sitting in a cafe in Paris with Raphael and Lucifer drinking coffee while the the morning sun peaked over the horizon and we all sighed together as we felt essence refill our souls... ::looks around:: oh... uhmm... I probably shouldn't have said that."- Yves ::pouting:: "Why wasn't I invited?"-Kronos "Because you only drink that icky, Turkish coffee, huggle-buns."- Andrealphus ::To himself for the past five minutes:: "I can't make that order, Novalis did... but on the other hand Michael did ask for it... but Novalis... Flowers... But Michael..."- Baal ::looking haggard:: "Do you realize how much essence it's taking to fuel Josh's imagination to write this list? Gimme what Va- I mean Janus ordered."- Kobal "I really haven't had a taste for coffee since Moe's Iron Rev story. I'll take a hot chocolate."- Asmodeus ::blink:: "So what you're telling me... is that coffee is made from coffee beans. But how do they squeeze the coffee out of the beans?"- Saminga Josh ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 15:42:06 -0400 From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" Subject: RE: IN> A Sequel... Snipping and splicing so that a single line of thought may be maintained. Prodigal and I have been debating an issue. - -----Original Message----- From: Prodigal [mailto:res0axj6@verizon.net] > Did you read ANYTHING in my last reply to you beyond what you quoted above? Yes. Anything I didn't comment about did not seem pertinent to the discussion at hand. If you feel otherwise, please attribute it to the debate. From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" > P Given that you seem to think that all the demons were vessel-killed, I P think you may have misread my original post to this thread. > > Did I ever say that? P You wrote about vessel killing in the plural in your last reply to me, so P you at least seemed to. Well, when you consider that there is no way I know of to force a demon to redeem, and no way I know of to force them to become celestial, then after you have drained them of anything you consider valuable, your only choice left is to release them or vessel kill them; I do not see that vessel killing in plural is incorrect. But it wasn't pertinent to the discussion so I didn't bring it up. If I am wrong, please explain how you will harmlessly handle the handful of captured demons without creating more evil or allowing it to escape to hell. >B No; I never said that. I said I don't know why a Swordie or any >B member of the War Faction would ever consider vessel killing >B the only solution to every problem. P How is this apropos to what I wrote, which involved a single vessel being P killed, in order to facilitate the capture of a number of other demons? Because your Swordie killed without reason, without thought, and without considering the ramifications of his actions. I did not see that he showed any consideration for handling the difficulty in any other fashion. If he worried about it for months ahead of time while using the Novalite as a stalking horse, I didn't see it portrayed. Okay, my points in this debate have been twofold. The first is a continuation of an earlier debate about vessel killing. I see it as a limited and very short term answer, and sometimes as creating more problems than it resolves. Yes, vessel killing a demon makes his master annoyed with said servant. So the demon ends up in hell for a decade or two, or even a double dozen decades. This is short period for entities who have existed for time periods that can be measured in geological terms. Killing a vessel when you don't have an idea of what that demons plans are and how they are progressing is very short sighted in my opinion. That is my opinion. I do not say it has to be your opinion. If you wish, we can continue to debate my opinion -vs- your opinion off list, but I am concerned about annoying the rest of the list with a continuance of this particular issue. Second: I can easily see a War Faction angel reacting as you have depicted. I also see it as a losing way of fighting the war. And I will debate most vehemently that it will quite annoy Novalis. Did the Swordie in question know what the Seraph planned? If he was using her as a stalking horse, it is not very likely. Maybe the Seraph had made a resonance at some point and knew a "TRUTH" about one of the demons. Maybe Seraph KNEW that by showing herself to be willing to face a house full of demons and remain calm and assured in their presence would lead one of the demons to redemption. And by redeeming one, she would have a line on possibly redeeming them all. Maybe not, but maybe so. The Swordie didn't know. And that one bullet ruined everything. Sent the demons running, or even if captured, totally removed any chance of a future encounter bringing one of them to Heaven. I believe that this would really get Novalis' panties in a bunch. What if it was to redeem one of the human hellsworn servants? Again, my belief of the proper portrayal of Novalis is that even one human soul saved from Hell is worth the risk, or even vessel loss, of her Seraph. The human soldier of Heaven would go on to Heaven if he was killed, the Seraph would go to her heart. Neither one was in true danger, only at risk of their physical form. One bullet, thoughtlessly fired, doomed a soul to hell. What a nice thing to have on your Swordie's resume. Yes, I can see where the Swordie might not care. He vessel killed a Demon with a distinction, he captured several other demons that were forced to give information to Heaven, and then vessel killed them. Victory! Go Swordie! All it cost him was a single bullet, and the entirety of what ever plans a trusted angel in service to Novalis had been making. And since even with promises of safety, it probably took the Seraph months or maybe even years for her dialogues with the demons to reach this stage, it's not like it was very important to her anyways. DS1 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 12:46:13 -0700 From: Arovyn Subject: Re: Re: IN> Superior Coffee (Warning. The Non-Canon light is on.) On Wed, 8 May 2002 15:33:33 -0400 Josh Moger wrote: "Are you kidding me!? That case launched CourtTV! Gimme a quintuple expresso!"- Nybbas Ouch. Espresso. There's no x in espresso. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 15:49:10 -0400 From: "S.D." Subject: IN> Wallpaper - continued http://www.angelfire.com/rebellion/in_nomine/images/blandine_hope-is-the-thing-with-feathers_800x600.jpg Blandine this time. Image again by Michael Whelan, Choir image taken from - somebody's website; if you recognize it, let me know and I'll credit you - and shrunk, Dreams symbol from Tafka J's sheets. Poem is Emily Dickenson, 'Hope is the Thing with Feathers'. Incidentally, doubleclicking the link works fine for me, but that could just be because I've opened the site repeatedly by way of Angelfire before opening it through the link. Copy-and-paste seems to be the best way for everyone else... And as long as I'm here anyway... If you like the main images I've been using, http://www.glassonion.com/ is Michael Whelan's art page, with galleries and more. It's harder to use now that they redesigned it, but still interesting. ~S.D. Ryukage ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ sleep, sleep, little one, sleep what shall you fear when i am here? sleep, little one, sleep chamomile and catnip, rosemary and primrose is all that we see or seem but a dream within a dream? if the world is sleeping then let them not arise for when the dreamers waken, the dream they're holding dies oh god if i'm dreaming make it stop and take me home 'Mercy Street' ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 15:58:39 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: Re: IN> Superior Coffee (Warning. The Non-Canon light is on.) > >On Wed, 8 May 2002 15:33:33 -0400 Josh Moger wrote: >"Are you kidding me!? That case launched CourtTV! Gimme a quintuple >expresso!"- Nybbas > >Ouch. Espresso. There's no x in espresso. I'm rexcovering frxm exams. Thxt's excuse for exerything buxt mxurder. Jxsh ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 16:09:01 -0400 From: "Steven E. Ehrbar" Subject: Re: IN> Dueling Sequels james walker wrote: >Marc buys up the shops on either side of the Alley, gets approval to build a >mall > "Malls. I like malls. Teenagers want, need, hunger for the latest thing. In six months they'll want, need, hunger for a new thing. And Nybbas takes most of the price and spends it on teaching them to want, need, hunger more. /Consumer/ism. "And, of course, food courts. Mmmm." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 16:14:59 -0400 From: "Steven E. Ehrbar" Subject: Re: IN> Superior Coffee (Warning. The Non-Canon light is on.) Josh Moger wrote: >"Got any biscotti? Donuts? Crumb cakes? Shoot."- Haagenti > "Okay, then the 64-ounce mocha, quadruple sweet. Make it two. No, sixteen. I mean, four dozen." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 13:16:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Superior Coffee (Warning. The Non-Canon light is on.) And yet you forgot... "Well, Sam, they get the flavor out of the bean this way... (Litheroy) "One cream, one sugar. As hot as you can make it. [pause] And put a lid on it. (Zadkiel) "Decaf. That other stuff will stunt your growth." (Christopher) "Black! And make it scalding, baby!" (Furfur) ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 If your principles don't inconvenience you from time to time, you don't really have any. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 13:17:07 -0700 From: Daiv Subject: IN> Superior Coffee Prefernces You know i had to, right? The Offanite Angel of Coffee, at one time or another, has had opportunity to find out how each of the Heavenly superiors likes his / her coffee. Blandine - Decaf Christopher - Does not drink much, but likes the occasional Cafe Mocha with extra whipped cream, and sprinkles. David - Likes it ground really, Really fine, and then made "Strong enough to defend itself." Dominic - Will try anything. Once. Eli - "You want WHAT in your coffee?" Gabriel - Dark roasted Pure Kona. Janus - "I will have what he's having." Jean - Sextuple espresso. To go.<*> With a Chocolate covered espresso bean chaser. Jordi - Cherry Beans. Khalid - Whatever you give me will be fine, I am sure. Laurence - What is Micheal drinking? Litheroy - Ask him yourself, he will tell you what is in it. In detail. But get a cup if you can, this is what John was drinking. Marc - Whatever is on sale today. Micheal - Betcha I can get Laurence to drink this! Novalis - has her own blend, which she grows herself in her garden. Yves - He just smiles, and somehow, there is a cup of coffee, in his hand, as though there were no other place it could possibly be.... -Daiv, Tech Writer in service to Coffee. - -- God Of tech support drunken master haiku geek butterfly victim ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 16:15:43 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Superior Coffee (Warning. The Non-Canon light is on.) > "Black! And make it scalding, baby!" (Furfur) Wouldn't he prefer to use the grounds like dipping tobacco? - -- Casca "Many people hear voices when no-one is there. Some of them are called mad and are shut up in rooms where they stare at the walls all day. Others are called writers and they do pretty much the same thing." --Margaret Chittenden, writer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 16:24:15 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Superior Coffee (Warning. The Non-Canon light is on.) ::Smack myself in the forehead:: Dinnae forget, but just couldn't come up with them. Yours work great. Josh > And yet you forgot... > > "Well, Sam, they get the flavor out of the bean this >way... (Litheroy) > > "One cream, one sugar. As hot as you can make it. >[pause] And put a lid on it. (Zadkiel) > > "Decaf. That other stuff will stunt your growth." >(Christopher) > > "Black! And make it scalding, baby!" (Furfur) > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 16:30:36 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: IN> Two Windy attunements Inspired by a conversation I had with my girlfriend last night, wherein I realized that Janus does not have any extra Servitor attunements, even non-canonical ones. Alternate Elohim Powers of the Wind may, with a Perception roll, determine how the loss of something will affect someone they have previously resonated. This allows them to remove the harmful or stasis-inducing from the lives of humans. (in the interest of equal time, herein follows the obligatory Theft version: Habbalah of Theft may, with a Perception roll, determine how the loss of something will affect someone they have previously resonated. This allows them to cause the most harm to humans by stealing what is precious and cherished.) Rade For a cost of 1 Essence, the angel move at the same speed as an object he is currently touching for as many minutes as he has Corporeal Forces. The angel must touch the item before the ability can activate; however, after that touch is not required. (Note to my VO4 players: these attunements are allowed. Robb, please post on the website.) - -- Casca "Many people hear voices when no-one is there. Some of them are called mad and are shut up in rooms where they stare at the walls all day. Others are called writers and they do pretty much the same thing." --Margaret Chittenden, writer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 15:55:05 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Silly question At 8:12 AM -0700 5/8/02, Michael Walton wrote: >--- Chris Anthony wrote: [Casca Wrote] >[...]a case of not being able to see the florist for >the trees. 0;> *****GROAN***** The hurting, the hurting! Augh! Sadists! Augh! Who would have known the Angel of Puns was a Fallen Flowers Elohite!? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 15:56:07 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Crosstraining, Part II At 11:17 AM -0400 5/8/02, BC Petery wrote: >Ummm... > >In Liber Canticorum, under the Corporeal Song of Succor, it says that Manna >is one of the few substances Haagenti will not eat. Clearly this is chocolate with just enough Manna in it to give it a little 'zing,' like eating those poisonous fish slivers? emccoy@nh.ultranet.com, Uppity Wynch http://brie.bmsc.washington.edu/people/merritt/books/Eye_of_Argon.html "rumoured to contain hoards of plunder, and many young wenches" Mike [falsetto]: "We're tired of these degrading patriachical slurs! From now on we demand to be called 'wynchys.'" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 16:38:56 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Crosstraining, Part II > Clearly this is chocolate with just enough Manna in it to give it a little > 'zing,' like eating those poisonous fish slivers? Pufferfish, aka Fugu. There's a Japanese saying that goes "I would like to eat Fugu, but I would also like to live." - -- Casca "Many people hear voices when no-one is there. Some of them are called mad and are shut up in rooms where they stare at the walls all day. Others are called writers and they do pretty much the same thing." --Margaret Chittenden, writer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 16:58:12 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Wallpaper - continued At 3:49 PM -0400 5/8/02, S.D. wrote: >http://www.angelfire.com/rebellion/in_nomine/images/blandine_hope-is-the-thing-with-feathers_800x600.jpg > >Blandine this time. Image again by Michael Whelan, Choir image taken from - >somebody's website; if you recognize it, let me know and I'll credit you - Looks like http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/Angelic/choirs/ to me... (I'd photoshop it into grayscale to fit with the pic, myself.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 16:59:41 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: IN> Better a Kyrio than an Archer. Does anyone else see Sam and Al on "Quantum Leap" as a Kyriotate of Destiny and Mercurian of Lightning that messed with something they shouldn't have in the Halls of Progress? Josh (Or did I just ask the novice question of the year?) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 17:05:17 -0400 From: "S.D." Subject: Re: IN> Wallpaper - continued >>http://www.angelfire.com/rebellion/in_nomine/images/blandine_hope-is-the-thing-with-feathers_800x600.jpg >> >>Blandine this time. Image again by Michael Whelan, Choir image taken from - >>somebody's website; if you recognize it, let me know and I'll credit you - > >Looks like http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/Angelic/choirs/ to me... That's where I got it Thanks. >(I'd photoshop it into grayscale to fit with the pic, myself.) That'd be neat...except I don't have Photoshop. ^_^;; Or any good graphic-edit program. I've been doing these via Paint. ~S.D. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 17:13:49 -0400 From: "S.D." Subject: Re: IN> Wallpaper - continued >>(I'd photoshop it into grayscale to fit with the pic, myself.) > >That'd be neat...except I don't have Photoshop. ^_^;; Or any good graphic-edit program. I've been doing these via Paint. But I do have access to Angelfire's GIFWorks! ^^ Forgot about that. Edited version of the wallpaper is up - same address. http://www.angelfire.com/rebellion/in_nomine/images/blandine_hope-is-the-thing-with-feathers_800x600.jpg ~S.D. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 17:39:50 -0400 From: "S.D." Subject: IN> And yet more wallpaper! I'm in a productive mood today. ^^ Here's Gabriel. Poem is a bit of the Dies Irae, background image is yet another Michael Whelan, Fire symbol from Tafka's sheets and edited by me, Ofanite symbol ... again, I don't remember whose website I got it from, but I'll give credit if anyone recognizes it. http://www.angelfire.com/rebellion/in_nomine/images/gabriel_dies-irae_800x600.jpg That'll be all for today, I think. I'm out of big enough images. ^^ ~S.D. Ryukage ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "And the first angel sounded the trumpet and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood." Revelations 8:7 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 14:59:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> And yet more wallpaper! Ahhhh... I like this one enough to actually use it as wallpaper. Now all I need is to get my computer back. 0:< ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 If your principles don't inconvenience you from time to time, you don't really have any. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th! http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 18:09:33 -0400 From: Mike Bruner Subject: Re: IN> Crosstraining, Part II At 04:38 PM 5/8/02 -0400, you wrote: > > Clearly this is chocolate with just enough Manna in it to give it a little > > 'zing,' like eating those poisonous fish slivers? > >Pufferfish, aka Fugu. > >There's a Japanese saying that goes "I would like to eat Fugu, but I would >also like to live." Then of course there's Dave Barry's suggestion (based on how popular it seemed melons were in Japan), that for a true hit in Japan you should genetically engineer a cross between a black widow spider and a melon to produce a melon that will kill you if prepared incorrectly ;-). Although this brings up an interesting thought about Haagenti; is there anything out there which is actually poisonous to him or would make him sick? I would imagine everything possible has been tried by enemies at some point, given how easy administration would be to arrange. Maybe make an adventure out of the unusual results of one such attempt - God knows what would happen if Haagenti could be made to actually THROW UP (would that release things/persons long thought gone, or would exposing the rest of the universe to that black hole in his guts cause all of Creation to be sucked in?). Imagine the panic as the PCs struggle to find 50,000 gallons of Pepto-Bismol in order to prevent catastrophe... - -- Mike Bruner-- mbruner18@comcast.net Give a hobbit a fish and he eats fish for a day. Give a hobbit a ring and he eats fish for an age. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 17:25:21 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> A Sequel... From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" > > Anything I didn't comment about did not seem pertinent to the > discussion at hand. As per your request, I will be quoting pertinent sections as needed. But I would argue that your decision as to what parts of what I wrote were pertinent was based on faulty assumptions. > Well, when you consider that there is no way I know of to force a demon to > redeem, and no way I know of to force them to become celestial, then after > you have drained them of anything you consider valuable, your only choice > left is to release them or vessel kill them; I do not see that vessel > killing in plural is incorrect. The Sword angel in my piece only killed one demon's vessel. Others were responsible for taking custody of the captives from him, so references to vessel killing in the plural where he is concerned are incorrect. And even if the captive demons are eventually vessel killed, he is still no more guilty of that than the policeman who captures a murder is guilty of the murderer's execution. As for the "You either have to let them go or kill their vessels" argument, I would suggest that you are presenting a false dichotomy. Methods for holding celestials captive have been posted to the list before. I expect that Jean has any number of devices that can prevent beings from entering the Marches while asleep; while these would prove deleterious to humans, nothing (except hypothetical rarity) would prevent them from being used in tethers where no humans would be expected to sleep. Use a force-catcher as a way of keeping the shedite captive while releasing its host, then use the devices preventing access to the marches in the cells of the demons, and between those and the will shackles you have a way of keeping them captive for as long as need be. > If I am wrong, please explain how you will > harmlessly handle the handful of captured demons without creating more evil > or allowing it to escape to hell. You are wrong, but the reason why you are wrong is that you are assuming that the angel of the Sword I wrote about would be the one carrying out whatever the final fate of the captives turned out to be. > >B No; I never said that. I said I don't know why a Swordie or any > >B member of the War Faction would ever consider vessel killing > >B the only solution to every problem. > > P How is this apropos to what I wrote, which involved a single vessel being > P killed, in order to facilitate the capture of a number of other demons? > > Because your Swordie killed without reason, without thought, and without > considering the ramifications of his actions. Wrong. Reason: The djinn of Fear is working to instill terror (particularly in the form of a sense of helplessness) in both the soldier and the seraph. Thought: Azzur was ordered to watch over the seraph, and to protect it against the demons that knew about where she lived, and about the human soldier in her care. While the djinn was not presenting a physical threat, it was still presenting a clear and present danger. Ramifications: As I wrote in a previous reply, regarding vessel killing the djinn: "Because if the demon is sent back to Hell, whenever it recovers from Trauma it will have to explain why it A: Lost the vessel assigned to it, B: Caused a number of other demons to be captured by angels and taken in for interrogation, and C: Was dealing with demons loyal to superiors hostile to its own in the first place. None of which are going to be terribly comfortable for it. And if it does have a spare vessel ready, it then has to deal with the possibility that the Game is going to want to find it for questioning." > I did not see that he showed > any consideration for handling the difficulty in any other fashion. If he > worried about it for months ahead of time while using the Novalite as a > stalking horse, I didn't see it portrayed. Then you should have asked what the context of the one small scene I wrote was, rather than proceeding from a negative assumption about it. > Yes, vessel killing a demon makes his master annoyed with said servant. So does a demon working with demons whose masters are hostile to its own. That was why the djinn chose the seraph's apartment, remember? Because it was a place where demons whose masters were hostile to each other could plan together in safety from each other. > Killing a vessel when you > don't have an idea of what that demons plans are and how they are > progressing is very short sighted in my opinion. When you know at least part of its plans, however, then you weigh the loss of intelligence that could be gathered from one demon against the gain of intelligence that will be gathered from every other demon in the apartment, coupled to rescuing the soldier and seraph from them. > I can easily see a War Faction angel reacting as you have depicted. I also > see it as a losing way of fighting the war. And I will debate most > vehemently that it will quite annoy Novalis. Novalis' membership in the Peace camp makes it giving her some measure of annoyance is a given; it's whether her cherubic appreciation for saving others from harm will outweigh that which is the question to me. > Did the Swordie in question know what the Seraph planned? If he was using > her as a stalking horse, it is not very likely. In the vignette to which I was replying, the seraph was not presented as having *any* plans, Robert. The only one presented as having a plan was the djinn of Fear which invaded the seraph's home, and did its best to terrify her and the soldier in her care. That was the context within which I was working. > And that one bullet ruined everything. Sent the demons running, or even if > captured, totally removed any chance of a future encounter bringing one of > them to Heaven. That would depend on exactly how they are treated by their interrogators, would it not? > What if it was to redeem one of the human hellsworn servants? What human Hellsworn servants? I only remember there being demons in the original vignette. The only human aside from the soldier of Flowers I can recall is the shedite's host. > Again, my > belief of the proper portrayal of Novalis is that even one human soul saved > from Hell is worth the risk, or even vessel loss, of her Seraph. What of leaving her soldier to the mercies of Beleth's demons? Because ensuring that the soldier was pushed as far as possible toward Hell's side of the marches certainly seemed to be on its agenda. > The human > soldier of Heaven would go on to Heaven if he was killed, the Seraph would > go to her heart. Neither one was in true danger, only at risk of their > physical form. To the contrary, the human's mind and sanity would be at risk once asleep. Losing all one's Mind hits is one of the ways that discords can be gained, is it not? > One bullet, thoughtlessly fired, doomed a soul to hell. What a nice thing > to have on your Swordie's resume. What soul, other than that of a demon that was likely created there? > Yes, I can see where the Swordie might not care. He vessel killed a Demon > with a distinction, he captured several other demons that were forced to > give information to Heaven, and then vessel killed them. No, he did not. You could have asked what he was going to do with the captives, you know, rather than just assuming the worst. When he said "when we get done with them," he was speaking of the Sword's organisation in general, not of himself and his companions in particular. > All it cost him was a single bullet, and the entirety of what ever plans a > trusted angel in service to Novalis had been making. And since even with > promises of safety, it probably took the Seraph months or maybe even years > for her dialogues with the demons to reach this stage, it's not like it was > very important to her anyways. The demons were coming to her apartment with the express purpose of plotting against heaven in the assumption that they would be safe while doing so, and to inflict terror on both the seraph and the soldier under her care. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2628 ********************************