in_nomine-digest Thursday, May 9 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2631 In this digest: Re: IN> The Hyacinth Brotherhood RE: IN> A Sequel... Re: IN> The Hyacinth Brotherhood RE: IN> A Sequel... IN> The Cage IN> Violence in RPGs (was IN> A Sequel...) IN> A Sequel... IN> From Haagenti's gullet... Re: IN> A Sequel... Re: IN> A Sequel... Re: IN> A Sequel... Re: IN> A Sequel... Re: IN> A Sequel... Re: IN> Violence in RPGs (was IN> A Sequel...) Re: IN> Violence in RPGs (was IN> A Sequel...) IN> The Demon Conservation League IN> A Sequel... Re: IN> A Sequel... Re: IN> Violence in RPGs (was IN> A Sequel...) Re: IN> A Sequel... Re: IN> A Sequel... Re: IN> The Demon Conservation League Re: IN> Crosstraining, Part II {Potential INdigestion} Re: IN> Crosstraining, Part II {Potential INdigestion} Re: IN> Violence etc Re: IN> Violence in RPGs (was IN> A Sequel...) Re: IN> Violence in RPGs (was IN> A Sequel...) IN> Ethereal Player's Guide In Playtest Re: IN> Crosstraining, Part II IN> Novaline Location.. Feild of Lilies Re: IN> Violence in RPGs (was IN> A Sequel...) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 10:50:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> The Hyacinth Brotherhood Out of curiosity, why the name (which I thought was going to be a Novalan thing, given this month's theme)? ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 If your principles don't inconvenience you from time to time, you don't really have any. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th! http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 13:56:15 -0400 From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" Subject: RE: IN> A Sequel... - -----Original Message----- From: Chris Anthony [mailto:anthoch@earlham.edu] For an illustration of this principle, consider the government of the United States. While the President may be the Commander-in-Chief of the United States military, it takes Congress to declare war, martial law, &c. And there are plenty of agencies that operate outside of the military (such as the Central Intelligence Agency) while still operating under the aegis of the President and the federal government, and who don't always appreciate military "assistance". Just a thought. - -EDG And as a 20 year career service person, I can assure you there are times when we wish we were not brought into situations which could have been handled without the loss of life. Might does not make right and I would think that in Heaven of all places this thought would have a place of honor. DS1 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 13:59:08 -0400 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: Re: IN> The Hyacinth Brotherhood > Out of curiosity, why the name (which I thought was going to be a > Novalan thing, given this month's theme)? Borrowed it from the "Language of Flowers." Hyacinth represents sorrow. Specifically, purple hyacinth so I took a few liberties. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 18:09:05 -0000 From: "Chris Anthony" Subject: RE: IN> A Sequel... "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" said: > And as a 20 year career service person, I can assure you there are times > when we wish we were not brought into situations which could have been > handled without the loss of life. Might does not make right and I would > think that in Heaven of all places this thought would have a place of honor. Please forgive me for phrasing that poorly. I do understand your point and wish I'd brought it up in my post. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 14:12:04 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> The Cage >That moment of >being trapped will, they presume, inflict >Dissonance on the Princess of Freedom. More likely Shiloh gets bonked-out (ala TFOS) by the Demon Princess. No, not silly enough. Lilith says, "I'll do you a favor, I won't blast you,>That moment of >being trapped will, they presume, inflict >Dissonance on the Princess of Freedom. More likely Shiloh gets bonked-out (ala TFOS) by the Demon Princess. No, not silly enough. Lilith says, "I'll do you a favor, I won't blast you, so you now owe me a Geas/6." Sillier still. Lilith sends a scout, then has Haagenti take her place. It is dissonant for Freedom to be /forced/ to do something. If she goes along for the ride you've got a whole different ball game. And what the HELL is a "Redemption Squad" anyway? Sounds like Brain Washing. I keep getting visions of a group of angels glueing feathers to a demon's wings, and saying, "Now doesn't that feel better?" Too Novalis? OK, Michaelite: "Say it! (Punch) Say it! (Slap) Say 'Feathered wings are good things!'" Help! I'm typing and I can't logoff! BC Petery http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/ so you now owe me a Geas/6." Sillier still. Lilith sends a scout, then has Haagenti take her place. It is dissonant for Freedom to be /forced/ to do something. If she goes along for the ride you've got a whole different ball game. And what the HELL is a "Redemtion Squad" anyway? Sounds like Brain Washing. I keep getting visions of a group of angels glueing feathers to a demon's wings, and saying, "Now doesn't that feel better?" Too Novalis? OK, Michaelite: "Say it! (Punch) Say it! (Slap) Say 'Feathered wings are good things!'" Help! I'm typing and I can't logoff! BC Petery http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 14:15:11 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Violence in RPGs (was IN> A Sequel...) [Changing the thread name to keep it clear of Bregeron's] >> vi_o_lence n. >> 1. Physical force exerted for the purpose of violating, damaging, or >> abusing. >The only physical force being used was to restrain. But it is a /violent force/ none the less. Just because it doesn't require a Band-Aid doesn't make it nonviolent. Just because it doesn't cause a disturbance in the Symphony doesn't make it nonviolent. >> 4. Abusive or unjust exercise of power. >Neither of which applied to how the demons were being captured. In who's opinion? Laurence or Novalis? Remember, it is Novalis' attunement. >> "damaging" and "injuring" are used only once, each. Wrestling and Akido >>are >> both classified as Martial Arts. The commando style raid above would be >> termed an "assault." >No, it would be termed an "arrest." And it is possible for someone to be >arrested nonviolently. Being arrested nonviolently is called surrendering of your own free will. If someone yanks you out of your chair, wrestles you to the floor and cuffs you, they've acted violently towards you. (I'm assuming the demons didn't cooperate.) The Seraph's Attunement doesn't distinguish between legal & illegal or just & unjust. It may be /legal/ for the Police to use force to arrest someone, but that doesn't make it /nonviolent/. *sigh* The whole raid would be a pointless failure anyway. The Angels wouldn't be able to keep the demons from going celestial and fleeing to their Hearts anyway. It's not like the Angels could attack them Celestially while they are in the area of Seraph's attunement. I think the best way to measure if an action is violent is to ask, "Would Gandhi do that?" >Michael Walton, #US2002023848 > If your principles don't inconvenience you >from time to time, you don't really have any. No one ever said Peace was easy. (Sorry to drag you into this Michael.) Yours in Virtuality, BC Petery http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 14:14:20 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> A Sequel... >From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" >... after you have drained them of >anything you consider valuable ... Hey! Are we talking torture here? Flowers don't play that game. Rose's anger and frustration keeps seeming more and more justified. >From: "Patrick None" > but if you look at it as a cold war, vessels and roles as incredible >outsources, and Hell actually being a Bad Place... Actually in a Cold War you don't kill enemy agents. The enemy would just put a new agent in place, one whom you will have to ferret out all over again. Instead you document them and attempt to turn them. I've run out of things to say, BC Petery http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 14:10:36 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> From Haagenti's gullet... >Although this brings up an interesting thought about >Haagenti; is there anything out there which is actually >poisonous to him or would make him sick? This reminds me of the Red Caps from WoD's Fairies. They can eat anything without harm (on a successful die roll). (I think. I don't care enough to dig it out and look.) >You see, in my imagination, Haagenti has many stomachs >and gizzards, connected by a non-Euclidean tangle of >intestines. Some of the stomachs are more entropic >than others, and a few are actually livable. There's a >thriving lost city of swallowed celestials in the >largest hospitable stomach, scavenging through >Haagenti's partly digested meals for useful materials. Now we know how the Professor got batteries to keep the Damn Radio running. Oh sit right back and you'll hear a tale, A tale of a awesome gulp... He don't call Kobol his brother for nothin'. "We don't morally censure you, we just want the money." -Michael Palin, The Blackmail Sketch Pete, Demon of Misinformation http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/IN/pete.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 13:33:10 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> A Sequel... From: "Patrick None" > > Novalis works for God. God said Laurence is in charge of the War. This is > part of the War. Laurence, by definition of his Word and Choir, does not > have to *ask.* he is the commander. not Novalis. Exactly. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 15:30:16 -0400 From: "Patrick None" Subject: Re: IN> A Sequel... > I would still think that the War Party would be more > concerned with the long term benefit of finding a way to trap or catch a > demon in Celestial form and go for total annihilation than simple vessel > destruction, but it's a moot point. That the War Party will use violence to > attain it's goals is a given. > So does the Peace faction. > > I in no way stated that the Djinn was not dangerous. I said the situation > did not warrant blowing his brains out and spattering them across the blouse > of the seraph. Actually, you pointed out that there wasn't a threat - not an immediate one. > Lucifer didn't think he needed to ask either. I think there is far too many > proofs to list that show Laurence is capable of making decisions that are > not always the most correct. Certainly members of the War Party have quotes > in their write ups that indicate times when they have questioned his > decision making process. Actually, Lucifer talked to Metatron all the time. Regardless of whether he always makes the right decison or not, Laurence is the Command of the Armies of God (CAG). Laurence has also shown a remarkable ability (re his writeup in Sup 1) to incorporate things other then "Swords. And...em...guns!" Really, look at his NPCs from Liber Servitorum. As far as your arguement *immediatly* below, it applies just as easily in reverse. If Novalis is irratated that the War faction - the faction that God has to a large degree personally appointed (War, and promoting Laurence not Novalis) - is interferring in her plans, then shouldn't she put her Word to the side and put Heaven first? Ie, tell Laurence? This > is not to say that every issue should be decided by debate in the Seraphim > Council, but perhaps before an angel interferes with another angel's plans, > they might consider asking what is going on first. Even if the angels in > question are Archangels. > > > Advancing *their* word at the expense of Heaven. > > Sounds like a good campaign idea. A very violent one as well. I hope that > you give peaceful resolution some hope of working, but it's your campaign so > do what you will. No, that sounds like canon, I think. Regard the (Superior 3?) panel on why Gabriel and Dominic HAD to go down the way they did, because of their words. We know that Michael is pushy and unlikable because, fundamentally, he IS conflict. Archangels put their Word in front of everything or they become hairy balls of Dissonance. > > I did, however, probably oversimplify my position on vessel killing and will > recant it in part. I will not recant my position that a servant of Novalis > would rarely consider her role or vessel more important than the life of a > human or the chance of redemption of a demon. > I don't think that that doesn't apply to a servitor of Laurence, also. I'm not even sure how its relevant. Novalis isn't the Archangel of Redemption any more then David is the Archangel of Gangs - they're things they're interested in, but not things that are integral to them. I think Laurence, if anyone, probably thinks more of the importance of humans and redeemed demons then anyone, due to his desire to Win. Again, Sup 1. > > I do. It works very well for me. But if it doesn't work for you then you > are not required to subscribe to my opinion. Neither am required to > subscribe to yours. I will debate the issue of how considering vessels as > expendable, if somewhat expensive, resources if you feel it worth your time. What *isn't* an expendable resource? I mean, if the lose of a vessel, role, associated ties to society, associated protections for the humans attached, isn't a *significant* loss to Heaven, what is? I mean, sure. We can build more ships, and tanks, and recruit more soldiers. but we don't go throwing away armed forces because we can. > > But if the actions of the Sword gain a single INCH and lose a MILE, then > such continued, unthinking, actions will ultimately lose the War for them. > And the Swords should consider that before attacking. The general that > doesn't consider the ramifications involved in taking an action is doomed to > failure. They probably did. Six (?) demons captured? The Shedites host freed? Political points gained against the Peace faction - both for the Swords getting the (invaluble) data from the captured demons, and because then Dominic gets to have a "talk" with the Seraph who had an appartment full of Demons - and if the whole thing is quiet enough, the oppertunity to insert doubles long enough to destroy each of the Demons work on Earth? That seems like more gain then the loss of an upset Seraph of Flowers who didn't FYI the CAG that she had "dibs" on those demons, and no one should kill them. > Oh. Certainly. But the issue presented to me was that there was some means > of dealing with the demons that Novalis would not find upsetting. Only the > Djinn was "killed" and my protestations of the scene were supposed to be > salved by the idea that the demons were only being captured, not killed. > > But your solutions are all viable and appropriate to a violent resolution. > They are not appropriate to Novalis and I feel she would find using her > servants as bait for such as an action designed to upset her. > > DS1 More likely, her feelings were tossed aside. The Sword and Flowers, fundamentally, have things they *can't* agree on - and stay true to their Words and Angelic nature. Patrick ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 13:37:48 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> A Sequel... From: "Chris Anthony" > > Laurence is the Commander of God's Armies - *not* necessarily the > Archangel "in charge of" the War. Everything in canon I've seen has left me with the impression that there is no difference between being one and being the other. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 15:35:57 -0400 From: "Patrick None" Subject: Re: IN> A Sequel... > Hey! Are we talking torture here? > > Flowers don't play that game. > Rose's anger and frustration keeps seeming more and more justified. > Even my (you may have gathered) dark game doesn't have *Laurence* torturing people - or dominic, for that matter. No, I was thinking the Inquistor attunement, and repeated applications of the Seraph attunement, songs to reduce the demons ability to not tell the truth... > > Actually in a Cold War you don't kill enemy agents. The enemy would just put > a new agent in place, one whom you will have to ferret out all over again. > Instead you document them and attempt to turn them. > I put this down as a "sting" - the Sword saw an oppertunity to clean out a whole Cell, find out who they know, and start really taking things apart. My thoughts being (running canon rules) humans have essentially NO chance to fight back against the hammer of demonic resonances. The longer they're ON Earth, the worse things get, and its impossible to repair damage at the rate they can DO damage. Regard that in a Cold war, not everyone is an "agent." The Swords on Earth are usually less "secret agents" - in my mind - and more commando forces, designed to get the information necessary to slow demonic operations as much as possible. > > I've run out of things to say, > > BC Petery > http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/ > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 15:53:56 -0400 From: "Patrick None" Subject: Re: IN> A Sequel... I think the difference is that Laurence has to "play ball" with the politics of Heaven. He can demand all he wants, but the "Armies of God" is more nebulous then "in charge of the War" - which would both upset Michael, and give him more concrete power. I imagine its semantic context as being richer in Angelic. Patrick Splitting hairs for linguistics > From: "Chris Anthony" > > > > Laurence is the Commander of God's Armies - *not* necessarily the > > Archangel "in charge of" the War. > > Everything in canon I've seen has left me with the impression that there is > no difference between being one and being the other. > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 14:04:39 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Violence in RPGs (was IN> A Sequel...) From: "BC Petery" > > >The only physical force being used was to restrain. > > But it is a /violent force/ none the less. I have to disagree. So does the Mirriam-Webster dictionary, for that matter: Restrain: 1 a : to prevent from doing, exhibiting, or expressing something b : to limit, restrict , or keep under control 2 : to moderate or limit the force, effect, development, or full exercise of 3 : to deprive of liberty; especially : to place under arrest or restraint > >> 4. Abusive or unjust exercise of power. > > >Neither of which applied to how the demons were being captured. > > In who's opinion? Laurence or Novalis? Remember, it is Novalis' attunement. It is possible for someone to be arrested without any violence being inflicted upon them. > >No, it would be termed an "arrest." And it is possible for someone to be > >arrested nonviolently. > > Being arrested nonviolently is called surrendering of your own free will. No, it's being arrested without any violence taking place. As it stated in my original reply to this thread, the Sword angels moved in and began cuffing demons within moments of the djinn's vessel being killed. > *sigh* The whole raid would be a pointless failure anyway. The Angels > wouldn't be able to keep the demons from going celestial and fleeing to > their Hearts anyway. In that case, the gathering of demons would be a pointless failure anyway. The demons wouldn't be able to keep the seraph from summoning Novalis before they could take a single action. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 12:14:27 -0700 From: Kish Subject: Re: IN> Violence in RPGs (was IN> A Sequel...) Prodigal wrote: > > From: "BC Petery" > > *sigh* The whole raid would be a pointless failure anyway. The Angels > > wouldn't be able to keep the demons from going celestial and fleeing to > > their Hearts anyway. > > In that case, the gathering of demons would be a pointless failure anyway. > The demons wouldn't be able to keep the seraph from summoning Novalis before > they could take a single action. Of course they wouldn't. Would /anyone/ here claim there's a nonviolent way of stopping Rose from summoning Novalis? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 15:19:12 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> The Demon Conservation League >Hell is immeasurably worse on failure then >Heaven, and it doesn't seem like the DPs have a >very nice policy regarding unavoidable situations. Yet another reason for demons having a high will. There are two schools of thought on this subject: 1) DPs don't trash servitors on a whim because good help... Excuse me, competent help is hard to find. 2) DPs can build a servitor to their own specifications. Trash one and build another with the Forces. Different DPs will use different management structures. Saminga tends to be a #2, while Baal or Furfur might let you off is you did some damage going out. Of course, if you've been staring at your Heart for over a year now... "I have the strength of ten because my Heart is intact." -Pete Pete, Demon of Misinformation http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/IN/pete.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 15:19:17 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> A Sequel... >From: "Patrick None" > So, you don't think Nightmares has any impact on the war? since the Djinn >was setting up a Nightmare situation, and you say there was no threat - are >you simply saying that Nightmares (and by extension, Dreams) have no impact >on the War and can be safely ignored? Good point. Soldier Bob was under Novalis. Now his Angel has been shown to be weak, almost powerless, against the forces of violence. Doubt and angst lead to Nightmares. And then there's nothing like gore for a visceral, instinctive reaction. A Vessel seems human unless you check the GI tract. That Djinn's head exploding all over the room, the smell of the blood, finding bits of brain in your hair, shards of glass in your clothes... The confusion of having the door kicked in and loud, shouty men beating people up, only to find out that these are ANGELS... The stuff of Nightmares? I think Beleth would be pleased. I can't think of a clever tagline, BC Petery http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 16:33:16 -0400 From: "Patrick None" Subject: Re: IN> A Sequel... Well, possibly. But if the overall solution is no gore, then well...yeah, the servitors of the Sword and the War are SOL, aren't they? Certainly (thinks...ow) the Malakite of Etiquette should have a few STERN words with the strike team. "In her own *home?* Well, I am *very* dissappointed in you. I...I am speechless. I only hope that you offered to clean up for her. "What was that? You commented that her apartment looked *better* with some red? I am ashamed. What are you, Servants of War? NO. You are servants of the *Sword.* Go apologize." On the other hand, maybe the Swords knew that the Soldier seeing that Heaven would *fight* for him was just what he needed to get his 7th force, and become a Saint. I mean, as long as we're tossing out "what ifs." Patrick possibly posting too much in one day. > The confusion of having the > door kicked in and loud, shouty men beating people up, only to find out that > these are ANGELS... > > The stuff of Nightmares? > I think Beleth would be pleased. > > > I can't think of a clever tagline, > > BC Petery > http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/ > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 19:37:23 -0000 From: "Chris Anthony" Subject: Re: IN> Violence in RPGs (was IN> A Sequel...) Kish said: > Of course they wouldn't. Would /anyone/ here claim there's a nonviolent > way of stopping Rose from summoning Novalis? I can think of three off the top of my head, although all but one depends on your definition of "violent" (and the third might require a bit of rules interpolation). - - Song of Possession. If Rose isn't using her body at the moment, she can't very easily summon Novalis to it. - - Celestial Song of Tongues. Initiate a Denial of Service attack against Novalis (although this requires that the demons have a) a Lot Of Essence, and b) met Novalis before), which admittedly might bring Novy down on their heads anyway. - - Celestial Song of Shields. I would rule that Invocations can't get out of one either. Just a thought. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 14:48:31 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> A Sequel... From: "BC Petery" > > Good point. Soldier Bob was under Novalis. Now his Angel has been shown to > be weak, almost powerless, against the forces of violence. Doubt and angst > lead to Nightmares. Possibly, although it is also possible that seeing the demon that was attempting to terrorise him and the angel he worked for pay a very immediate and very messy price might prove comforting, or at least steel his resolve in the struggle against Hell. Regardless, submitting a request for one or more angels of Dreams to guard Bob's dreamscape is in order, as would be a request that Rose contact her higher-ups in Flowers' organisation about getting counseling for Bob would be in order. > The confusion of having the door kicked in and loud, shouty men beating people up, Except for the total lack of any kind of "beating up" or shouting taking place... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 14:49:22 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> A Sequel... From: "Patrick None" > Certainly (thinks...ow) the Malakite of Etiquette should have a few STERN > words with the strike team. > "In her own *home?* Well, I am *very* dissappointed in you. I...I am > speechless. I only hope that you offered to clean up for her. "We did leave a detachment behind to do exactly that, sir. And we used the song of healing to repair the damage to the window and furniture." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 16:49:48 -0400 From: "Patrick None" Subject: Re: IN> The Demon Conservation League > 1) DPs don't trash servitors on a whim because good help... Excuse me, > competent help is hard to find. > > 2) DPs can build a servitor to their own specifications. Trash one and build > another with the Forces. I swing more to the first, but (in order to give trauma real bite for my game) have made it a very harsh line as far as vessels and such. Competent help doesn't get sent back to Hell. Heaven is more lenient, combat Roles are more lenient, etc...but the overall effect (post one vessel killed NPC) is that people are way less "well, its just my vessel" - their PC won't be destroyed or shipped to the Lake of Blood for one vessel killing, but all that cool stuff you were working on is screwed in your absence, and people are on the lookout for your type of behavior. > > Pete, Demon of Misinformation > http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/IN/pete.html > > Patrick ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 14:44:06 -0500 From: "Cthulhu" Subject: Re: IN> Crosstraining, Part II {Potential INdigestion} Gregg Forge wrote: > Or, as one coworker put it, "Japanese food is an experiment >in population control." This came on the heels of a discussion >of both fugu and, of all things, the number of mocchi-related >deaths that occur in Japan. > > Which leads to the most potentially horrific idea of all; >Saminga not only has a brain...but a sense of humor! Which means we have room for a whole cohort of Avery-a-likes (the former Demon of Hot Sauce from *Night Music*), only a lot more compotent.... mExcellent. I love finding new ways to break a Superiors' stereotype servitors, if only to confuse my players. Speaking of which... Dalm Balseraph of Gluttony Corporeal Forces - 2 Strength 4 Agility 4 Ethereal Forces - 3 Intelligence 6 Precision 6 Celestial Forces - 3 Will 6 Perception 4 Vessels: Human Adult Male/2 Roles: Veterinarian/4 ("Robert Seery") Skills: Chemistry/3, Dodge/1, Driving/1, Knowledge (Animals)/4, Medicine/3, Ranged-Weapon (pistol)/3, Savoir-Faire/3 Songs: Entropy (Corporeal/2), Healing (Corporeal/4), Shields (Celestial/3) Attunements: Balseraph of Gluttony, Consume Dalms' job is an odd one in Hell, particularly for a demon in the service of Haagenti. It all started when a high-up in Gluttonys' organisation had to report to the Prince that the Purple Crystal had died out. The Purple Crystal is, or rather was, a species of beetle in the Amazon, which made a rather delicious paste when ground up with certain herbs and oils, to which Haagenti was rather partial. By the truckload. The high-ups replacement realised that in order to assuage his Princes ire, they would need to make sure that as few species as possible became extinct, so that when the roar "Bring me a platter of !" went up, they wouldn't have to explain why that particular item wasn't available today, or indeed ever, o most Dread and Magnificent Prince. So a small number of not terribly important Gobblers were assigned to Corporeal duty with explicit instructions to make sure things don't die out (the high-up managed to brush this one past Haagenti while he was particularly engrossed in spaghetti one evening). Dalm was one of these - placed in a zoo with a Panda in it to keep it safe and hopefully find a mate. His Role allowed him to get other endangered creatures brought into the Zoo for him to keep an eye on, and he began to do quite well. His only real wish was that someone would teach him the Corporeal Song of Fruition. He's still waiting. The only problem that arose with this was from Dalm himself. His instructions were very clear on the notion of eating anything in the Zoo - don't do it or else. Having now spent several years looking after the animals he has begun to grow ... fond of them, although he will not admit it. Indeed, he's begun to slip into the mindset of a Servitor of Jordi; humans are causing all the problems here, not the animals. Eat the humans. Dalm hasn't actually eaten an animal in three years. He's probably a decent candidate for Redemption. Any Malakim or Seraphim resonating on him will discover that he becomes genuinely upset when anyone tries to harm "his" animals, and will always try to protect them. Dalm is aware that he may be slipping further and further away from Haagenti's general modus operandi, and is pretty nervous about it. He doesn't like the idea of his zoo being a pantry, but he hasn't gotten past discomfort over the idea yet. Actual rebellion has not even occurred to him. Socially, Dalm is a Balseraph. People who he likes like him, people who he doesn't don't. He comes across as a little bit obsessive about the animals, and works very long hours, but this only makes him seem dedicated to the other workers. Most of them are too busy with their own problems; Dalm does need to obey Haagenti's dissonance conditions, though he normally does so while trawling malls or street markets. He doesn't like disturbing the Symphony, and always carries a tazer in case things get physical. He also ignores almost every Symphonic disturbance he hears unless ordered otherwise. He's keeping a very low profile, and will try to not get involved in anything potentially awkward; Celestial or otherwise. Cthulhu _____________________________________________ Free email with personality! Over 200 domains! http://www.MyOwnEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 15:26:47 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Crosstraining, Part II {Potential INdigestion} From: "Cthulhu" > > Dalm BRILLIANT! Words cannot adequately express exactly how much I enjoyed this... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 21:30:04 +0000 From: "cassandra benner" Subject: Re: IN> Violence etc >Of course they wouldn't. Would /anyone/ here claim there's a nonviolent >way of stopping Rose from summoning Novalis? *ahem* song/relic/mc gubbin of song of silence. Centered in the seraph. "oh my, the seraph cant talk, what a shame, means she cant call out in angelic to momma, and its not violent either..." Semantically it is violent because it is affecting the seraph directly, but only if you center the effect on the seraph. Cas *Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be Evil.* In Nomine @ http://www.angelfire.com/goth/psyber/i-n.html In Nomine yahoo @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/inveritas ADnD forum @ http://www.drunkendwarfinn.co.uk ADnD stuff @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ADandD_Stuff _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 17:25:43 -0500 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Violence in RPGs (was IN> A Sequel...) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Anthony" To: Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 2:37 PM Subject: Re: IN> Violence in RPGs (was IN> A Sequel...) > - Song of Possession. If Rose isn't using her body at the moment, she can't > very easily summon Novalis to it. Wouldn't she just be able to summon Novalis anyway? Invoking your Superior *can* be helped by verbal and somatic components, but IIRC it doesn't *require* them. So long as you can think, you can pray. > - Celestial Song of Tongues. Initiate a Denial of Service attack against > Novalis ... with Superior multi-tasking? What would be the point? Besides, a Superior can always recognize its own Servitors when it hears and/or sees them, automatically. It would not be far-fetched to state that such automatic recognition of your own Word-subordinates also extends to incoming celestial communications. [snip] > - Celestial Song of Shields. I would rule that Invocations can't get out of > one either. True, but IYC *anything* can happen. Rules arguments tend to talk about 'default canon' campaigns sheerly by necessity, because house rules is whatever you wants 'em to be anyway. - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 22:36:20 -0000 From: "Chris Anthony" Subject: Re: IN> Violence in RPGs (was IN> A Sequel...) Charles Glasgow said: > Wouldn't she just be able to summon Novalis anyway? Invoking your Superior > *can* be helped by verbal and somatic components, but IIRC it doesn't > *require* them. So long as you can think, you can pray. Without my books with me: IIRC, the Song of Possession leaves the possessed angel in the Marches. I may be mistaken, however. > ... with Superior multi-tasking? What would be the point? I tend to assume that regardless of Superior multi-tasking, there is a "central processor", so to speak. > Besides, a Superior can always recognize its own Servitors when it hears > and/or sees them, automatically. It would not be far-fetched to state that > such automatic recognition of your own Word-subordinates also extends to > incoming celestial communications. See your comment, below. > True, but IYC *anything* can happen. Rules arguments tend to talk about > 'default canon' campaigns sheerly by necessity, because house rules is > whatever you wants 'em to be anyway. Sorry for the inclarity. It wasn't necessarily an IMC comment so much as a comment about an unclarified aspect of the game. Let me rephrase. "Because I don't recall it being specified in canon, it does not seem far- fetched to me to assume that Invocations are blocked by the Celestial Song of Shields." - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 18:34:26 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Ethereal Player's Guide In Playtest ...at Pyramid. $15 for a year. www.sjgames.com/pyramid/ Be sure to read the rules for playtests. I'm an even worse Djinn Tyrant Editor than I am a Djinn List Admin. O:> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 18:32:30 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Crosstraining, Part II At 5:30 PM -0500 5/8/02, Prodigal wrote: >From: "Mike Bruner" >> >> God knows what would happen if Haagenti could be made to >> actually THROW UP > >My God! The lost Monet! *laugh* - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 22:21:57 +0000 From: "cassandra benner" Subject: IN> Novaline Location.. Feild of Lilies She stood there, in the fields, her children stood away from her. Wearing her dress, made from the leaves of lilies. On of the minister stood there, monotone voiced, intoning the achievements of the one who was gone. After it was done, some one touched her shoulder. Firm, strong hands found hers. Covered in calluses, smeared in paint and dried clay. Don t worry love, he ll come back. She sobbed and sighed. No, he won t. He ll never come back. I wish that he hadn t said what he had. We parted on bad words. I watched him die. I didn t stop him. I didn t try. Yeah, you re right. He wont come back, not as if that will stop you looking for him though will it He gripped her hand tightly, and walked away. No, not it won t. She said when they had all left her. She left a wreath of lilies by the headstone. A beacon for her child to find, if he ever wanted to come home. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Not everyone who is a Flower child and needs a fleck of violence in his or her life goes to War. Some just plain Fall. When this happens, Novalis is deeply wounded. Firstly, by the fact that one of her servitors, one that she created, feels the need for violence, secondly because they didn t talk to her about the rising urge in them, and thirdly for not noticing it herself. When the Heart shatters, she keeps some of the pieces. Though they may be dead, inert material, they still form what was one the center of the angel. The angel, or rather by now, the demon, still has an intrinsic connection to them. Though they deny it, and ignore the true symphony, and listen only to the shattered twisted symphony of a demon. She takes the fragments and weaves them in to a wreath of lilies, and places them in a field, near the edge of heaven and the marches. It s a way for the demon to find his way home and know he ll always be wanted there. Cas *Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be Evil.* In Nomine @ http://www.angelfire.com/goth/psyber/i-n.html In Nomine yahoo @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/inveritas ADnD forum @ http://www.drunkendwarfinn.co.uk ADnD stuff @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ADandD_Stuff _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 17:55:24 -0500 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Violence in RPGs (was IN> A Sequel...) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Anthony" To: Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 5:36 PM Subject: Re: IN> Violence in RPGs (was IN> A Sequel...) > Without my books with me: IIRC, the Song of Possession leaves the possessed > angel in the Marches. I may be mistaken, however. So? She invokes Novalis in the Marches, Mom shows up and asks her what's wrong, Rose tells her... ... and five seconds later, the Archangel of Flowers drops on the house like a falling meteor and *everything* hostile shuts down. >From the Marches to the 'burbs is a durn short trip for a Superior. > > ... with Superior multi-tasking? What would be the point? > > I tend to assume that regardless of Superior multi-tasking, there is > a "central processor", so to speak. Actually, Superiors multi-task like Kyriotates do. > > Besides, a Superior can always recognize its own Servitors when it hears > > and/or sees them, automatically. It would not be far-fetched to state that > > such automatic recognition of your own Word-subordinates also extends to > > incoming celestial communications. > > See your comment, below. Doesn't *quite* apply -- the text in the GMG re: automatic Superior recognition went specifically out of its way to mention non face-to-face methods of communication, like telephones. [snip] > Let me rephrase. > > "Because I don't recall it being specified in canon, it does not seem far- > fetched to me to assume that Invocations are blocked by the Celestial Song of > Shields." Does anybody have their Liber Canticorum handy? I went to find mine, and the bloody thing's grown legs and walked off -- again. (Anybody ever wonder where Eli borrows his RPG supplies from when he does a pick-up game? Answer -- my book boxes!) - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2631 ********************************