in_nomine-digest Friday, May 10 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2632 In this digest: Re: IN> Violence in RPGs (was IN> A Sequel...) IN> Fwd: Silly question Fwd: IN> The Twelve 'Mods' of Christmas? Re: IN> My brain hurts... RE: IN> A Sequel... Re: IN> Ethereal Player's Guide In Playtest IN> Liber Servitorum (Re: A Sequel...) Re: IN> Dueling Sequels OT: SJGames down? (Was Re: IN> Ethereal Player's Guide In Playtest) Re: IN> A Sequel... Re: IN> Ethereal Player's Guide In Playtest Re: IN> Violence in RPGs (was IN> A Sequel...) Re: IN> Ethereal Player's Guide In Playtest Re: IN> Ethereal Player's Guide In Playtest IN> Etiquette (Re: A Sequel...) IN> The Twelve 'Mods' of Christmas? Re: IN> Liber Servitorum (Re: A Sequel...) IN> Re: Haagenti's digestion RE: IN> A Sequel... RE: IN> A Sequel... IN> INcessantly Silly questions Re: IN> Re: Haagenti's digestion IN> Oh, you'd be wanting URLs? RE: IN> Ethereal Player's Guide In Playtest RE: IN> Ethereal Player's Guide In Playtest Re: IN> Oh, you'd be wanting URLs? Re: IN> Oh, you'd be wanting URLs? Re: IN> My First Artifact: the Wand of Many Bodies RE: IN> A Sequel... RE: IN> A Sequel... Re: IN> Gabriel wallpaper ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 16:06:01 -0700 From: Kish Subject: Re: IN> Violence in RPGs (was IN> A Sequel...) Chris Anthony wrote: > > Charles Glasgow said: > > > Wouldn't she just be able to summon Novalis anyway? Invoking your Superior > > *can* be helped by verbal and somatic components, but IIRC it doesn't > > *require* them. So long as you can think, you can pray. > > Without my books with me: IIRC, the Song of Possession leaves the possessed > angel in the Marches. I may be mistaken, however. Can't you invoke a Superior in the Marches? (And then give Novalis the address of the apartment. Depends on how fast you presume a Superior can move, of course.) > > ... with Superior multi-tasking? What would be the point? > > I tend to assume that regardless of Superior multi-tasking, there is > a "central processor", so to speak. I have this image of a demon sending a Celestial Song of Tongues message to Novalis, and she pops into existence two feet away from him, "Yes...? What do you want?" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 19:27:43 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Fwd: Silly question >Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 13:40:56 -0500 >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Non-member submission from [Kamika-Z ] (Posters-l, posters-l -- www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/lists.html . O:> ) >Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 13:35:50 -0700 >From: Kamika-Z >Organization: Tailswish Studios - www.tailswish.com >Subject: IN> Silly question > >> >> >>- --- Gregg Forge wrote: >>>> But if they happen to do some volunteer work in a >>>> field where /pisum/, / >>>> dolichos/, /abrus/, or /cicer/ are grown, and they use >>>> the Nothing but Flowers >>>> attunement to conceal themselves, is it a case of not >>>> seeing the Florist for the peas? >> >> [sigh] OK, I deserved that... >> > Not as much as I expect a certain IN fan to make use of the >Corporeal Song >of Whirled Peas to show their displeasure...:) > >>>> ...if a pea falls on a Florist, and no one >>>> is around to hear it... >> >> Urk! Rube Goldberg jokes! I must've been really bad in >>a past life. 0:> > > Speaking of past lives... > > Should a Soldier of Flowers (per se) wish to be reborn into a plant >vessal, just for the purpose of brightening some Tether somewhere and >providing more lucid conversation for the Celestials that work there than the >average potted plant, and they chose a vessal of /Dianthus caryophyllus/, does >this constiture reincarnation? > > And for THAT matter, if someone tells a lengthy, elaborate bit of a >tale, making the summarizing bit at the end into a 'punchline' that is equal >parts pun and popular slogan, and part of it involves a Afghan vessal of Jordi, >does he get essence when it gets called a 'Shaggy Dog Story'? > > Kamika-Z, diving for cover... > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 19:25:25 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Fwd: IN> The Twelve 'Mods' of Christmas? >Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 07:03:36 -0500 >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Non-member submission from [Kamika-Z ] > >Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 06:58:41 -0700 >From: Kamika-Z >Organization: Tailswish Studios - www.tailswish.com >Subject: IN> The Twelve 'Mods' of Christmas? >> >> >>>Josh >>>>(You know the Basement browsing ability for Warehouse 32? How every item >>>>starts with "You open a box at random to find..."? Wouldn't an IN version >>>>work if you just substituted for the above: "Haagenti is split open to >>>>show..." >>> >>> >> >>~/o "On the first day of Christ-mas, I found in Haa-gen-ti/A host of Jordi in a pear tree!" o/~ >> >>{ "..."} >> >> ~S.D. Ryukage >> >~\o "On the second day of Christ-mas, I found in Haa-gen-ti... > > 2 old /Playboys/, and a host of Jordi in a pear tree!" o//~/ > >~\o "On the third day of Christ-mas, I found in Haa-gen-ti... > > 3 TVs, 2 old /Playboys/, and a host of Jordi in a pear tree!" o//~/ > >~\o "On the fourth day of Christ-mas, I found in Haa-gen-ti... > > 4 Human Skulls, 3 TVs, 2 old /Playboys/, and a host of Jordi in a pear >tree!" o//~/ > >~\o "On the fifth day of Christ-mas, I found in Haa-gen-ti... > >FIVE....ATOM BOMBS!!! > > 4 Human Skulls, 3 TVs, 2 old /Playboys/, and a host of Jordi in a pear >tree!" o//~/ > >~\o "On the sixth day of Christ-mas, I found in Haa-gen-ti... > > 6 battle axes, > > FIVE....ATOM BOMBS!!! > > 4 Human Skulls, 3 TVs, 2 old /Playboys/, and a host of Jordi in a pear >tree!" o//~/ > >~\o "On the seventh day of Christ-mas, I found in Haa-gen-ti... > > 7 unusued condoms, 6 battle axes, > > FIVE....ATOM BOMBS!!! > > 4 Human Skulls, 3 TVs, 2 old /Playboys/, and a host of Jordi in a pear >tree!" o//~/ > >~\o "On the eighth day of Christ-mas, I found in Haa-gen-ti... > > 8 sleeping potions, 7 unusued condoms, 6 battle axes, > > FIVE....ATOM BOMBS!!! > > 4 Human Skulls, 3 TVs, 2 old /Playboys/, and a host of Jordi in a pear >tree!" o//~/ > >~\o "On the ninth day of Christ-mas, I found in Haa-gen-ti... > > 9 hits of acid, 8 sleeping potions, 7 unusued condoms, 6 battle axes, > > FIVE....ATOM BOMBS!!! > > 4 Human Skulls, 3 TVs, 2 old /Playboys/, and a host of Jordi in a pear >tree!" o//~/ > >~\o "On the tenth day of Christ-mas, I found in Haa-gen-ti... > > 10,000 fried chickens, 9 hits of acid, 8 sleeping potions, 7 unusued >condoms, > > 6 battle axes, > > FIVE....ATOM BOMBS!!! > > 4 Human Skulls, 3 TVs, 2 old /Playboys/, and a host of Jordi in a pear >tree!" o//~/ > >~\o "On the eleventh day of Christ-mas, I found in Haa-gen-ti... > > 11 old windup clocks, 10,000 fried chickens, 9 hits of acid, 8 >sleeping potions, > > 7 unusued condoms, 6 battle axes, > > FIVE....ATOM BOMBS!!! > > 4 Human Skulls, 3 TVs, 2 old /Playboys/, and a host of Jordi in a pear >tree!" o//~/ > >~\o "On the twelth day of Christ-mas, I found in Haa-gen-ti... > > 12 PISSED Superiors, 11 old windup clocks, 10,000 fried chickens, 9 >hits of acid, > > 8 sleeping potions, 7 unusued condoms, 6 battle axes, > > FIVE....ATOM BOMBS!!! > > 4 Human Skulls, 3 TVs, 2 old /Playboys/, and a host of Jordi in a pear > > treeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!" o//~/ > > Kamika-Z, who bets you can guess who those 12 are! > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 19:38:48 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> My brain hurts... At 9:59 PM -0400 5/8/02, Josh Moger wrote: >Friggin brilliant. Loved the idea of "You are what you eat." Would fit >with Haagenti eating Mariel. > >Hmm... redeem Mariel... > >Which makes me wonder- what word did Meserach have before his Fall? He might not have had one at all -- not all of the first Princes did. Belial, for instance. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 19:46:32 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: RE: IN> A Sequel... At 1:19 AM -0400 5/9/02, Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW) wrote: >As far as Will Shackles, Force Catchers and other means of containing demons >goes, just how many centuries were you planning on holding the demons and >where is Heaven's jail at? The cells beneath Notre Dame, probably. No, no, they're not canon. I should hunt them up again. They're a bit creepy. Mostly they're used for Hellsworn, until they agree to have their infernal Force stripped from them. If this takes a while, hey, there's the Corporeal Song of Entropy. A nice little hotel-room (carefully designed to prevent easy suicide), three meals a day, all the novels you can read (from the list provided, of course), and piped-in music if you want it. Even guarenteed dreamscape space in special linked niches in Blandine's ethereal section of Tower! For as long as you resist the Force-stripping. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 19:45:13 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal Player's Guide In Playtest >...at Pyramid. > >$15 for a year. www.sjgames.com/pyramid/ > >--emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor >RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ Not getting it. In fact, though somebody else has probably already started the screaming, I'm not getting *any* sjgames site. The front pages are all an auction site, and nothing else seems to exist. William ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 19:48:10 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Liber Servitorum (Re: A Sequel...) At 2:48 AM -0400 5/9/02, Patrick None wrote: >On the other hand, mad props to the author of the laurence NPCs from the >Servitor book. Which one? I know I wrote one of them, but I don't recall, at the instant, who the other author(s) were. O:> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 19:51:42 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Dueling Sequels At 5:10 AM -0700 5/9/02, Gregg Forge wrote: >>In case anyone wants an all-in-one reference, here are the pairs. When I >>write A/B, I mean that A is hostile to B; I'll make note of which are the >>mutuals just after the main list. They are alphabetized by the >>originator, alphabetized by recipient within those. As a note, for the purposes of 'combos Laurence might assign,' the most important ones are the Sword biases -- if Laurence thought the best team for a job was a Seraph of Flowers and a Seraph of War, well, he _is_ Commander of the Host. (More likely, that'd be a Mercurian of War and a Seraph of Flowers, mind, but you get the picture.) Of course, he'll have to balance the 'useful combination of abilities' factor with the 'will fight like wet hens on a bad hair day' factor, but hey, it could be entertaining as a one-shot... O:> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 23:55:57 +0000 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: OT: SJGames down? (Was Re: IN> Ethereal Player's Guide In Playtest) >From: "William J. Keith" >Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal Player's Guide In Playtest >Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 19:45:13 -0400 >Not getting it. In fact, though somebody else has probably already started >the screaming, I'm not getting *any* sjgames site. The front pages are all >an auction site, and nothing else seems to exist. Same here. You are definitely not alone. - -- Chuckg "I feel a grave disturbance in the Force." _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 19:03:23 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> A Sequel... From: "Elizabeth McCoy" > > >where is Heaven's jail at? > > The cells beneath Notre Dame, probably. With transportation provided by the Flying Cathedral, naturally. ;:;) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 19:04:21 -0500 From: Andrew Hackard Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal Player's Guide In Playtest At 07:45 PM 05/09/02 -0400, William J. Keith wrote: >Not getting it. In fact, though somebody else has probably already >started >the screaming, I'm not getting *any* sjgames site. The front pages >are all >an auction site, and nothing else seems to exist. We're undergoing a server move at the moment; that's just a placeholder page. - -- The meaning of life can be revealed <*> hackard@io.com but never explained. -- Kenneth Rexroth ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 20:25:42 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Violence in RPGs (was IN> A Sequel...) At 10:36 PM +0000 5/9/02, Chris Anthony wrote: >Charles Glasgow said: > >> Wouldn't she just be able to summon Novalis anyway? Invoking your Superior >> *can* be helped by verbal and somatic components, but IIRC it doesn't >> *require* them. So long as you can think, you can pray. > >Without my books with me: IIRC, the Song of Possession leaves the possessed >angel in the Marches. I may be mistaken, however. It does. (Where, mind, the Seraph can also invoke Novalis. And, er, her Peace Aura goes with _her_. >"Because I don't recall it being specified in canon, it does not seem far- >fetched to me to assume that Invocations are blocked by the Celestial Song of >Shields." Which aren't mobile, unlike the other two kinds. The Seraph could walk out and, well, short of putting a Djinn in front of the door ahead of time, there'd be nothing the demons could really do about it. Well, besides Possession, which has its own hazards. Mama Novalis very likely WOULD be wroth if she were not invoked, with a Soldier left to the "mercies" of a roomfull of demons. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 20:31:39 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal Player's Guide In Playtest At 7:04 PM -0500 5/9/02, Andrew Hackard wrote: >At 07:45 PM 05/09/02 -0400, William J. Keith wrote: >>Not getting it. In fact, though somebody else has probably already >>started >>the screaming, I'm not getting *any* sjgames site. The front pages >>are all >>an auction site, and nothing else seems to exist. > >We're undergoing a server move at the moment; that's just a placeholder >page. I _think_ it's back up by now? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 19:38:59 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal Player's Guide In Playtest From: "Elizabeth McCoy" > > > >We're undergoing a server move at the moment; that's just a placeholder > >page. > > I _think_ it's back up by now? The nntp server isn't yet, but at least now I know why I can't connect. And my thanks to Andrew for letting us know about the server being moved. Having an explanation for things like this helps make them more bearable. :) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 20:21:06 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Etiquette (Re: A Sequel...) At 4:33 PM -0400 5/9/02, Patrick None wrote:> Well, possibly. But if the overall > Certainly (thinks...ow) the Malakite of Etiquette should have a few STERN >words with the strike team. > "In her own *home?* Well, I am *very* dissappointed in you. I...I am >speechless. I only hope that you offered to clean up for her. > "What was that? You commented that her apartment looked *better* with some >red? I am ashamed. What are you, Servants of War? NO. You are servants of >the *Sword.* Go apologize." You, now... You get a cookie. That's a nice one. emccoy@nh.ultranet.com, Uppity Wynch http://brie.bmsc.washington.edu/people/merritt/books/Eye_of_Argon.html "rumoured to contain hoards of plunder, and many young wenches" Mike [falsetto]: "We're tired of these degrading patriachical slurs! From now on we demand to be called 'wynchys.'" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 00:57:38 GMT From: "Gregg Forge" Subject: IN> The Twelve 'Mods' of Christmas? >>>Josh >>>>(You know the Basement browsing ability for Warehouse 32? How every item >>>>starts with "You open a box at random to find..."? Wouldn't an IN version >>>>work if you just substituted for the above: "Haagenti is split open to >>>>show..." >>> >>> >> >>~/o "On the first day of Christ-mas, I found in Haa-gen-ti/A host of Jordi in a pear tree!" o/~ >> >>{ "..."} >> >> ~S.D. Ryukage >> ~\o "On the second day of Christ-mas, I found in Haa-gen-ti... 2 old /Playboys/, and a host of Jordi in a pear tree!" o//~/ ~\o "On the third day of Christ-mas, I found in Haa-gen-ti... 3 TVs, 2 old /Playboys/, and a host of Jordi in a pear tree!" o//~/ ~\o "On the fourth day of Christ-mas, I found in Haa-gen-ti... 4 Human Skulls, 3 TVs, 2 old /Playboys/, and a host of Jordi in a pear tree!" o//~/ ~\o "On the fifth day of Christ-mas, I found in Haa-gen-ti... FIVE....ATOM BOMBS!!! 4 Human Skulls, 3 TVs, 2 old /Playboys/, and a host of Jordi in a pear tree!" o//~/ ~\o "On the sixth day of Christ-mas, I found in Haa-gen-ti... 6 battle axes, FIVE....ATOM BOMBS!!! 4 Human Skulls, 3 TVs, 2 old /Playboys/, and a host of Jordi in a pear tree!" o//~/ ~\o "On the seventh day of Christ-mas, I found in Haa-gen-ti... 7 unusued condoms, 6 battle axes, FIVE....ATOM BOMBS!!! 4 Human Skulls, 3 TVs, 2 old /Playboys/, and a host of Jordi in a pear tree!" o//~/ ~\o "On the eighth day of Christ-mas, I found in Haa-gen-ti... 8 sleeping potions, 7 unusued condoms, 6 battle axes, FIVE....ATOM BOMBS!!! 4 Human Skulls, 3 TVs, 2 old /Playboys/, and a host of Jordi in a pear tree!" o//~/ ~\o "On the ninth day of Christ-mas, I found in Haa-gen-ti... 9 hits of acid, 8 sleeping potions, 7 unusued condoms, 6 battle axes, FIVE....ATOM BOMBS!!! 4 Human Skulls, 3 TVs, 2 old /Playboys/, and a host of Jordi in a pear tree!" o//~/ ~\o "On the tenth day of Christ-mas, I found in Haa-gen-ti... 10,000 fried chickens, 9 hits of acid, 8 sleeping potions, 7 unusued condoms, 6 battle axes, FIVE....ATOM BOMBS!!! 4 Human Skulls, 3 TVs, 2 old /Playboys/, and a host of Jordi in a pear tree!" o//~/ ~\o "On the eleventh day of Christ-mas, I found in Haa-gen-ti... 11 old windup clocks, 10,000 fried chickens, 9 hits of acid, 8 sleeping potions, 7 unusued condoms, 6 battle axes, FIVE....ATOM BOMBS!!! 4 Human Skulls, 3 TVs, 2 old /Playboys/, and a host of Jordi in a pear tree!" o//~/ ~\o "On the twelth day of Christ-mas, I found in Haa-gen-ti... 12 PISSED Superiors, 11 old windup clocks, 10,000 fried chickens, 9 hits of acid, 8 sleeping potions, 7 unusued condoms, 6 battle axes, FIVE....ATOM BOMBS!!! 4 Human Skulls, 3 TVs, 2 old /Playboys/, and a host of Jordi in a pear treeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!" o//~/ Kamika-Z, who bets you can guess who those 12 are! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 21:14:50 -0400 From: "Patrick None" Subject: Re: IN> Liber Servitorum (Re: A Sequel...) heh:) Zenan, the Elohite, was great because she was indicative of what Laurence NEEDS - angels of the Sword who know how to analyze vast situations and recognize necessary elements. The SCA thing was a nice touch, very INie. Paltiel, the Ofanite, was great because he's a *good* angel. Especially in my (dark) game, I'm looking forward to him, or someone like him, more then the stick of trauma or vessel loss, to show the Angels how messed up its become, and the Demons how bad they've gotten. Both PCs combined are a) not just guys with swords and b) really telling about how Laurence is trying to change how the War is fought, and how he tries to keep his Angels on the ball. Really, his "disciplinary measures" with both angels are pretty deep for the living incarnation of the Sword, no? Regards, Patrick > At 2:48 AM -0400 5/9/02, Patrick None wrote: > >On the other hand, mad props to the author of the laurence NPCs from the > >Servitor book. > > Which one? I know I wrote one of them, but I don't recall, at the > instant, who the other author(s) were. O:> > > > --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor > RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 01:29:30 +1000 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Re: Haagenti's digestion > Although this brings up an interesting thought about Haagenti; is there > anything out there which is actually poisonous to him or would make him > sick? > > Snip > > Okay, I actually wanted to answer this section of the e-mail semi-seriously. > I'm assuming that Haagenti, being the purely entropic Calabite that he is, > doesn't so much have intestines or a stomach to poison as he does have a > holding area where his entropy breaks his food down to the component forces. So, an Indestructible Superior level artifact, which as a special ability granted indestructibility to everything in his digestive system, would probably causes his resonance to backlash. This could result in: Haagenti taking the dissonance; his resonance going wild, and digesting everything within a few miles of him; or triggering the vomit action of devour, with the entropy expressing itself in the vomit. None of these options are pretty. You know, if Marc & Lilith were to persuade both sides to "do lunch", this would be an excellent way for Kobal to bring negotiations to an end. Cheers, James. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 13:50:32 -0400 From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1\(SW\)" Subject: RE: IN> A Sequel... - -----Original Message----- From: Patrick None [mailto:deadairis@hotmail.com] > Now, if you can blow off blowing your cover, then you're not looking at it > as a Cold war. Temporary setbacks build up - since, while angels and demons > may live millenia, there is no (cannon) view of them not acting on a moment > to moment basis, living at the same speed humans do. > Sure. If your fundamental concept is that getting sent to Trauma and > screwing up what you were sent to do isn't a big deal, then its really hard > to justify any of the War factions. Correct. I think I may have overstated myself in that. I do understand that vessels don't come cheap, but I also feel that there are times when an issue, or even a single human, can be considered more important than an angel's vessel. I would still think that the War Party would be more concerned with the long term benefit of finding a way to trap or catch a demon in Celestial form and go for total annihilation than simple vessel destruction, but it's a moot point. That the War Party will use violence to attain it's goals is a given. > So, you don't think Nightmares has any impact on the war? since the Djinn > was setting up a Nightmare situation, and you say there was no threat - are > you simply saying that Nightmares (and by extension, Dreams) have no impact > on the War and can be safely ignored? No. I just don't feel the situation presented to us in the scene under discussion required or even asked for such violent resolution. There was no immediate need to kill the Djinn. And unless the sniper had implanted listening devices, he had no means of knowing a verbal threat was being posed to the seraph. I in no way stated that the Djinn was not dangerous. I said the situation did not warrant blowing his brains out and spattering them across the blouse of the seraph. > Novalis works for God. God said Laurence is in charge of the War. This is > part of the War. Laurence, by definition of his Word and Choir, does not > have to *ask.* he is the commander. not Novalis. Lucifer didn't think he needed to ask either. I think there is far too many proofs to list that show Laurence is capable of making decisions that are not always the most correct. Certainly members of the War Party have quotes in their write ups that indicate times when they have questioned his decision making process. More importantly, only God is infallible. Everyone else, every AA and every Reliever and every angel in between, including the Malakim, can make a mistake. And with that in mind, they should be aware that other individuals might have advice on an issue, or might have a plan that could work. This is not to say that every issue should be decided by debate in the Seraphim Council, but perhaps before an angel interferes with another angel's plans, they might consider asking what is going on first. Even if the angels in question are Archangels. > This is what, IMINC, the description of no one appreciating the Swords > until they come calling for help. The Swords have WAR to fight, and if the > other Words can't even bother to check in with regular status reports, then > its their own fault for not cooperating to the fullest with their commander. > Advancing *their* word at the expense of Heaven. Sounds like a good campaign idea. A very violent one as well. I hope that you give peaceful resolution some hope of working, but it's your campaign so do what you will. > I don't think you've said that "violent solutions sometimes are not > correct." You've pretty much completly panned Laurence, but more so the > entire concept of "killing vessels" being important. I fail to see how I have said anything else. I have repeatedly said that I thought the sniper scenario was overly violent for the situation stated. I have said I understand that Swordies will use such tactics, but that it was not always the best answer. I did, however, probably oversimplify my position on vessel killing and will recant it in part. I will not recant my position that a servant of Novalis would rarely consider her role or vessel more important than the life of a human or the chance of redemption of a demon. > And I don't think the concept of the game works if you say that "killing > vessels is a temporary at best solution," while failing to look at how the > War is fought. I do. It works very well for me. But if it doesn't work for you then you are not required to subscribe to my opinion. Neither am required to subscribe to yours. I will debate the issue of how considering vessels as expendable, if somewhat expensive, resources if you feel it worth your time. > As long as individual Archangels are more concerned (understandably) with > their Word then the War, then they might get their agendas interferred with > to win the War. If an Angel has a room full of Demons and gets upset that > the Swords (or Lightening, or the Game) sees this as a chance to get an INCH > ahead, then they should have thought of that *before* not telling the > Swords. But if the actions of the Sword gain a single INCH and lose a MILE, then such continued, unthinking, actions will ultimately lose the War for them. And the Swords should consider that before attacking. The general that doesn't consider the ramifications involved in taking an action is doomed to failure. >> Which means of sending them to Hell are you proposing? Letting them go or >> Vessel killing them? Because I believe the issue was holding them without >> doing either. > Yeah, but I think that reaming them for info and sending 'em to trauma is > ideal. Booby trap their Role, too. Oh. Certainly. But the issue presented to me was that there was some means of dealing with the demons that Novalis would not find upsetting. Only the Djinn was "killed" and my protestations of the scene were supposed to be salved by the idea that the demons were only being captured, not killed. But your solutions are all viable and appropriate to a violent resolution. They are not appropriate to Novalis and I feel she would find using her servants as bait for such as an action designed to upset her. DS1 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 20:14:23 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: RE: IN> A Sequel... >I fail to see how I have said anything else. I have repeatedly said that I >thought the sniper scenario was overly violent for the situation stated. I >have said I understand that Swordies will use such tactics, but that it was >not always the best answer. *cough* I think that the trees may have been overshadowed by the forest here, just a tad. Not all Laurencians will do the exact same thing under the exact same initial circumstances. Not even Laurencian Elohim. Laurence's orders are binding under pain of dissonance, but sometimes his orders are "Use your best judgment." (Or some varient.) While that scenerio might have been overly violent -- or might not have, depending on the Seraph and demons in question -- it really can't be taken as a metaphore for "What Would Laurence Do vs. What Would Novalis Do?" It _can_ be taken as a plausible "yes, we gave you a backup without telling you, because we wanted to assess both your capabilities and that of the enemy -- and we know that Seraphim often can't lie worth beans so we wanted genuine surprise if anyone spotted US and mentioned it to you" tactic. Though, really, one should have a Laurencian Cherub attune to the Seraph at a distance for that one; gives a better sense of how much "peacenik stupidity" is endangering the attuned. (Yes, Servitors of Laurence probably tend to have attitudes like that towards Flowers' Servitors, if not openly voiced, or all-pervading.) But that particular action... Well, if you posit that Laurence DID or DID NOT order such a thing, it's going to be perfectly correct for your campaign. I'm hardly going to rule canon on it! So, er, you are probably both right and can we please cool down now? I fail to see any new angles being brough to the discussion anymore. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 01:13:59 GMT From: "Gregg Forge" Subject: IN> INcessantly Silly questions >>But if they happen to do some volunteer work in a >>field where /pisum/, /dolichos/, /abrus/, or >>/cicer/ are grown, and they use the Nothing but >>Flowers attunement to conceal themselves, is it >>a case of not seeing the Florist for the peas? > >[sigh] OK, I deserved that... > Not as much as I expect a certain IN fan to make use of the Corporeal Song of Whirled Peas to make their displeasure known...:) >>...if a pea falls on a Florist, and no one >>is around to hear it... > >Urk! Rube Goldberg jokes! I must've been really >bad in a past life. 0:> Speaking of past lives... Should a Soldier of Flowers (per se) wish to be reborn into a plant vessal, just for the purpose of brightening some Tether somewhere and providing more intelligent conversation for the Celestials that work there than the average potted plant, and they chose a vessal of /Dianthus caryophyllus/, does this constitute reincarnation? And for THAT matter, if someone tells a lengthy, elaborate bit of a tale, making the summarizing bit at the end into a 'punchline' that is equal parts pun and popular slogan, and part of it involves a Afghan vessal of Jordi, does he get Essence if/when it gets called a 'Shaggy Dog Story'? Kamika-Z, diving for cover... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 20:30:04 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Haagenti's digestion From: "james walker" > > triggering the vomit action of devour, with the entropy expressing itself in > the vomit. Haagenti was Mr. Creosote? It all makes sense now... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 23:32:57 -0400 From: Archangel Beth Subject: IN> Oh, you'd be wanting URLs? It's not linked yet, as I type this, so... http://www.sjgames.com/pyramid/login/playtest/ethereal/ - --Beth, Tyrant Editor ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 20:59:21 -0700 From: Vaughn Romero Subject: RE: IN> Ethereal Player's Guide In Playtest >I *still* don't see an In Nomine Ethereal Player's Guide. This isn't punishment for that whole unseemly Christopher emasculation thing is it? Hey, we can't all own Night Music, but I can make up for it with a purchase of the CPG. Vaughn - - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - Is there an owners manual in a Fnord Taurus? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 20:43:37 -0700 From: Vaughn Romero Subject: RE: IN> Ethereal Player's Guide In Playtest Did I blink at the wrong moment or can I not see the playtest files because of the fnords? This is the list I see... Steve Jackson Games Car Wars: Arena Book 1 - Discussion Group GURPS Age of Napoleon - Files - Discussion Group GURPS Blue Planet - Files - Discussion Group GURPS Modern Firepower - Files - Discussion Group GURPS Traveller: Humaniti - Files - Discussion Group GURPS Uplift 2/e - Files - Discussion Group GURPS WWII: Iron Cross - Files - Discussion Group Hellboy Sourcebook and Roleplaying Game - Files - Discussion Group Ogrethulhu - Files - Discussion Group Transhuman Space: Deep Beyond - Files - Discussion Group Transhuman Space: High Frontier - Files - Discussion Group ...and no matter how many times I look at it, I *still* don't see an In Nomine Ethereal Player's Guide. Oh! I get it, I have to believe in it before it can exist. Darn Ethereals. Vaughn - - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - "I've looked in the Bible, and I can't find the words chocolate or Easter Bunny anywhere in there. Are y'all looking at the same book I am? Are y'all Gideons?" - Bill Hicks ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 03:24:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Oh, you'd be wanting URLs? - --- Archangel Beth wrote: > It's not linked yet, as I type this, so... > > http://www.sjgames.com/pyramid/login/playtest/ethereal/ > > --Beth, Tyrant Editor > It is, now. - --Maurice Lane, Vaguely Authoritarian Lead Playtester ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/13/02(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th! http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 07:18:39 -0400 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: Re: IN> Oh, you'd be wanting URLs? > --Maurice Lane, Vaguely Authoritarian Lead Playtester It could have been worse. It could have been Maurice Lane, Vaguely Authoritarian Playtester Utilizing Lead Authority (VAPULA for short) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:20:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Ryan M Roth Subject: Re: IN> My First Artifact: the Wand of Many Bodies [ Just a few additional points I forgot to add to the orginal post. These all apply to the standard version of the wand. ] The effect of the Wand can be resisted with a Will roll at -2, assuming the target sees the 'attack' coming and decides that he doesn't want it to happen. The target doesn't need to know what the wand is to resist the effect. However, if the target isn't aware of the 'attack,' i.e., the target is blindsided, the Will roll penalty increases to -6. Normally, the NC songs are in effect for the CD number of hours, during which time the singer can turn the effect on and off at will. The wand modifies this: the target is unable to turn the effect off. The wand holder can, though, by pointing the wand at the target again and willing the song to end. This, however, ends the song -- more Essence must be spent with the wand to reactivate the NC on the same target, regardless of the original song duration. If the song isn't turned off by the wand holder, the song will end at its normal duration. It is rumored that there are version of the Wand which have the added ability of increasing the song durations by 4 times -- the first of these Wands was made by Servitors of Dark Humor, who wanted to 'curse' a certain glib Magpie with a two-foot-long tongue for a full day. The Pranksters kept hitting the Thief repeatedly, and it took a full week before he realized what was happening. The Magpie later stole the Wand and traded it to a Servitor of Lust, who found the effect rather...tasty. When used, there are no visual or audio pyrotechnics associated with the Wand -- no beams of light or flashes or noises that will reveal the wand holder's position if he is hidden. The wand can be used by anyone who knows any of the NC songs. There are no special commands either. If the business end of the wand is pointed at someone else when the holder sings the song, the wand activates. This can (and has) lead to unintentional misfires. Be careful -- nothing is quite as annoying as using your last note of Essence to give the demon chasing you the wings you intended to use to fly away. Ryan Roth ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:26:30 -0400 From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" Subject: RE: IN> A Sequel... - -----Original Message----- From: BC Petery [mailto:bpetery@bellatlantic.net] >> From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" >> ... after you have drained them of >> anything you consider valuable ... > Hey! Are we talking torture here? > Flowers don't play that game. > Rose's anger and frustration keeps seeming more and more justified. I most certainly did NOT say that. I agree with your point of view very strongly. It has been the cause of all my ranting this week. >> From: "Patrick None" >> but if you look at it as a cold war, vessels and roles as incredible >>outsources, and Hell actually being a Bad Place... > Actually in a Cold War you don't kill enemy agents. The enemy would just put > a new agent in place, one whom you will have to ferret out all over again. > Instead you document them and attempt to turn them. Another point I agree with completely. This is why you don't just whack every demon you see. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do that thing. DS1 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:29:35 -0400 From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" Subject: RE: IN> A Sequel... - -----Original Message----- From: Prodigal [mailto:res0axj6@verizon.net] >> From: "Patrick None" > >> Novalis works for God. God said Laurence is in charge of the War. This >> is >> part of the War. Laurence, by definition of his Word and Choir, does not >> have to *ask.* he is the commander. not Novalis. > Exactly. Disagree most vehemently. They are still equals. Demanding obedience in an emergency? Yes. Demanding unquestioned, unthinking, unyielding loyalty? Only if he wants to be the next Lucifer. DS1 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:40:35 -0400 From: "Ruth Evers" Subject: Re: IN> Gabriel wallpaper Sorry, neither Gabriel nor Blandine are working for me (the links, I mean- Lilith's worked just fine, but I'm having trouble w/cut & paste as well) Hope to see them soon! Kariel 0 =) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2632 ********************************