in_nomine-digest Thursday, May 16 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2641 In this digest: Re: IN> [Novalis] Sweatin' in the Summer Time Re: IN> Laurence and the Brights... Fw: IN> A Matter of Faith Part II Re: IN> Laurence and the Brights... Re: IN> Laurence and the Brights... Re: IN> Laurence and the Brights... Re: IN> The Hyacinth Brotherhood Re: IN> ADMIN][ About Pictures on the IN List IN> New Discords, Huzzah! Re: IN> New Discords, Huzzah! Re: IN> New Discords Re: IN> Good Omens Re: IN> Good Omens RE: IN> Good Omens Re: IN> Good Omens Re: IN> Good Omens IN> War Faction and Elohim IN> little query Re: IN> little query Re: IN> Good Omens Re: IN> Laurence and the Brights... IN> Angel of the Home Re: IN> Good Omens RE: IN> Laurence and the Brights... Re: IN> Good Omens Re: IN> Good Omens Re: IN> Good Omens Re: IN> Good Omens Re: IN> Good Omens Re: IN> Good Omens Re: IN> Angel of the Home Re: IN> Angel of the Home Re: IN> Laurence and the Brights... Re: IN> Laurence and the Brights... IN> Magog Re: IN> Good Omens Re: IN> Magog Re: IN> Angel of the Home Re: IN> Good Omens RE: IN> Magog ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 20:30:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> [Novalis] Sweatin' in the Summer Time Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 22:04:27 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> [Novalis] Sweatin' in the Summer Time >[Since I've given up hogging the list elsewhere.] > >Glapan This got a laugh out of me. Moe PS Was this some sort of personal exorcism? :) ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/13/02(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 22:34:34 -0500 From: "Gregg Forge" Subject: Re: IN> Laurence and the Brights... > > >Think of the extent he GOES to in order to get every > > >Bright that manages to enter Heaven. > > > > Said 'extent' consists of putting in a request to the Seraphim Council >and > > having a well-written pile of paperwork each time. This is idiocy? At > > worst, it's a minor waste of his time... no, wait, Superior multitasking >and > > a very large and well-organized office staff. It's not even that. > >And the Brights havea very useful ability, which could (in the right hands) >be a terrifyingly effective weapon against the other side. So of course >he'll try to get each of these extremely rare celestials; he'd not be a >good >commander if he didn't at least make the attempt. > ...regardless of the fact that, for one thing, there's the reputation of Malakim to keep in mind, even though they are still freshly NotDemonā„¢, coupled with the nature of Lilim to not want confinement or the level of anal-retentive (IMHO! Only IMHO!) hierarchy that only BlackWing could really get into... Kamika-Z ...though that is subject, greatly, to the contrastometer... _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 23:43:56 -0400 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: Fw: IN> A Matter of Faith Part II *Kicks his message along to make sure it reaches the list* - -----Original Message----- From: Rolland Therrien To: In Nomine Mailing List Date: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 1:14 AM Subject: Re: IN> A Matter of Faith Part II >Personally, I see nothing wrong with having Israfane and Khalid meeting for >a debate concerning the matter of religion... But there's one vital thing >that should be remembered... > >Khalid is an Elohite Superior. That means that when he uses his resonnance, >he can automatically get Check Digit 6, right? Which means he'll look at >Israfane and automatically understand the calabim's current emotional state, >his strongest emotions and the motivation behind them, and how he'll respond >to any two actions (giving him a choice of actions to perform). And Khalid >can do this repeatedly throughout the debate. > >Khalid won't be falling for any mindtrap anytime soon, especially since he's >lost the fanatical blinders from "Fall of the Malakim". > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 22:47:27 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Laurence and the Brights... From: "Gregg Forge" > > > > So of course he'll try to get each of these extremely rare celestials; > > he'd not be a good commander if he didn't at least make the > > attempt. > > ...regardless of the fact that, for one thing, there's the reputation of > Malakim to keep in mind Regardless in your opinion, perhaps. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 02:35:19 -0500 From: "Gregg Forge" Subject: Re: IN> Laurence and the Brights... >From: "Gregg Forge" > > > > > > So of course he'll try to get each of these extremely rare celestials; > > > he'd not be a good commander if he didn't at least make the > > > attempt. > > > > ...regardless of the fact that, for one thing, there's the reputation >of > > Malakim to keep in mind > >Regardless in your opinion, perhaps. > So you would say that he DOES take this into account, then, in his immediate demands? Or that it is only my opinion that he does not? Kamika-Z, who also will note that there's still the restriction issue... _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 03:09:31 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Laurence and the Brights... From: "Gregg Forge" > > > > > > ...regardless of the fact that, for one thing, there's the reputation > > > of Malakim to keep in mind > > > >Regardless in your opinion, perhaps. > > So you would say that he DOES take this into account, then, in his > immediate demands? When a potentially invaluable weapon becomes available to Heaven's forces, at least putting in a requisition request is the duty of a good commander. Ergo, Laurence puts in a request for each of the extremely rare Brights that make it to Heaven. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 06:15:22 -0400 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: Re: IN> The Hyacinth Brotherhood Maurice Lane said unto us: > > > Interesting notion. Has anybody ever gotten away from them? And have > they ever tried to go after a Eternal Swordie? As written, they are a relatively new organization. I would imagine that they have yet to really go after someone in the Order but the Brotherhood would definitely be a challenge. After all, they have a level of cooperation that you usually don't see with demons. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 06:50:50 -0400 From: "S.D." Subject: Re: IN> ADMIN][ About Pictures on the IN List >>Given this, I'll be taking down my wallpapers by...Saturday at the >>latest. > >I think you're missing the point. You expose yourself *and* SJ Games to >trouble if you represent Whelan's artwork as In Nomine wallpaper. >Please take them down *now*. No, I wasn't missing the point. I understood there'd be trouble, but *RL matters* meant that I might not be *able* to get back into Angelfire any sooner than Saturday to delete them. However, since I had extra time this morning, they're down now. ~S.D. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 05:25:58 -0700 (PDT) From: W S Subject: IN> New Discords, Huzzah! *throws thoughts at the wall, whee!* Scapegoat (Ethereal) An older, rarely seen Discord, Scapegoat tends to strike across the boundaries fairly evenly- although it has a slightly higher occurance rating among Malphas and Novalis' crews. Within a number of yards equal to the level of the Discord, /everyone but the Celestial/ gains a level of Anger equal to the level of Scapegoat, directed at the afflicted Celestial. Meaning that at high levels, it's fairly difficult to actually go out in public... Gremlin-itis (Ethereal) Almost exclusivly occuring among Jean and Vapula's groups, this Discord has also manifested in older celestials- primarily the ones who gripe about 'newfangled wiggits'. It manifests itself as a series of minor mental blocks that reduce the effectiveness of any attempt at using technology more modern than a carriage. Whenever a roll involves using some piece of technology, a penelty equal to the level of the Discord is subtracted from the target number, and any failed rolls add the Discord's level to the CD. In addition, a natural CD of 6 on a failed roll will simply destroy a computer or similiar complex device (including many modern cars!) Hotshot (Celestial) Far and away, Michael's crowd grabs this particular Discord- although it's also relativly common among the Wheels and demonkind in general. It compels the Discordant to prove, at every instance, that they are /the best/ at something. It can be a game, dealmaking, or (most generally) combat. The celestial should choose some stimulus, approved by the GM, when they get a level of Hotshot. Whenever either someone else demonstrates the least ability at something, OR they /claim/ more than a beginner's skill, the Discordant celstial must make a Will roll minus the Skill level of the person they are accusing (it's harder to resist a good challenge). Furthermore, when engaged in a contest related to one of their stimuli, the Hotshot /must/ risk (-1 target, +1 CD) with each action as they try to show off. Insomniac (Ethereal) This mostly appears among Blaindine and Beleth's folks, although any Celestial who commonly frequents the Marches is prone to bouts of Insomnia. Toss and turn as they might, such celestials find it almost impossible to get and stay asleep by willing it. The Will check to get to sleep, the Song of Dreams, and any roll made while in the Marches is at a penelty equal to the level of the Discord! As a note, this Discord usally accompanies Need (Sleep). Loud (Corporeal) This Discord simply makes someone obnxiously loud- it's as if a microphone were on them at all times. Even when they try to moderate themselves and be quiet, they usally fail. When the Celestial attempts to do anything in a quiet or soothing fashion, they are at a penelty equal to the level of Loud they possess. If they are trying to be /silent/ or go unnoticed, double the penelty. There is a much more rarely seen Celestial version which causes any Disturbance created by the celestial to be multiplied by the level of the Discord! The elast thing they do can easily be heard clear across town. Role Reveresal (Celestial) This particular discord is most commmonly imposed on Celestials from their Superiors, as they try and teach their prodigals to maintain their Role a bit better in the future. It constricts a Celestial's supernatural powers and prowess- but also enhances mundane skills related to the Role the Celestial currently has. Any supernatural power of the afflicted (including Resonances, attunements, songs, activating artifacts- anything a 5 forces human /couldn't/ do) is at a penelty equal to the level of Role Reveresal. Any roll related to the celestial's current Role, however, is at a bonus equal to Role Reversal. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 05:44:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> New Discords, Huzzah! - --- W S wrote: > Scapegoat (Ethereal) Seems to me that this one should be a Celestial Discord, but that's just my opinion. > Gremlin-itis (Ethereal) Jordi might hand this one out as punishment to angels who break his Dissonance conditions. > Hotshot (Celestial) I see munchkin potential in this; as a GM, I wouldn't let a starting PC take it. > Insomniac (Ethereal) Heh. > Loud (Corporeal) Ouch! > Role Reveresal (Celestial) Bwahahahaha! I really want to see this one in play... ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 If your principles don't inconvenience you from time to time, you don't really have any. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 07:11:21 -0700 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: Re: IN> New Discords hehehe. It's been a while since we've seen new Discords. >>Scapegoat (Ethereal) Within a number of yards equal to the level of the Discord, /everyone but the Celestial/ gains a level of Anger equal to the level of Scapegoat, directed at the afflicted Celestial. Meaning that at high levels, it's fairly difficult to actually go out in public... That sounds a bit more crippling than normal. Discords usually don't affect people around the Celestial. >>Gremlin-itis (Ethereal) I agree with Michael's statement that Jordi would definitely hand this one out to his errant angels. >>Role Reveresal (Celestial) This was definitely my favorite. I can see it as being humbling towards some Celestials. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 10:20:26 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Good Omens > I was wondering if someone has done write-ups from the two celestials > from the book "Good Omens", namely Aziraphale and Crowly. > > My campaign is located in London and I was thinking of introducing > the two. I don't know of a write-up, but Aziraphale is identified as one of the cherubim at the gates of Eden, so you at least have his choir. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 16:31:58 +0200 From: "Donato Ranzato" Subject: Re: IN> Good Omens From: "Earl Wajenberg" > I don't know of a write-up, but Aziraphale is identified as one of > the cherubim at the gates of Eden, so you at least have his choir. I thought that maybe people had already done write-ups and I didn't want to start another thread but it seems I was mistaken. So, I will do the write-ups myself. I would make Aziraphale a Cherub with a role/3 Antiquarian bookseller. Crowley I am not so sure about but I would make him an Impudite with a Role/1. I guess that Aziraphale serves Destiny and Crowley The Game. If people are interested I can sent the write-ups to the list when they are finished. Donato ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 10:58:28 -0500 From: "Brook Freeman" Subject: RE: IN> Good Omens > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > [mailto:owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com]On Behalf Of Donato Ranzato > Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 9:32 AM > To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > Subject: Re: IN> Good Omens > > > From: "Earl Wajenberg" > > I don't know of a write-up, but Aziraphale is identified as one of > > the cherubim at the gates of Eden, so you at least have his choir. > > I thought that maybe people had already done write-ups and I > didn't want to > start another thread but it seems I was mistaken. So, I will do the > write-ups myself. > > I would make Aziraphale a Cherub with a role/3 Antiquarian bookseller. > Crowley I am not so sure about but I would make him an Impudite with a > Role/1. I guess that Aziraphale serves Destiny and Crowley The Game. Crowley seems to buck the system just a little too much to be The Game, I'd be more inclined to go with Dark Humor or Fate. > If people are interested I can sent the write-ups to the list > when they are > finished. I know I'd love to. Brook ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 09:03:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Kelly Pedersen Subject: Re: IN> Good Omens - --- Donato Ranzato wrote: [SNIP] > I would make Aziraphale a Cherub with a role/3 > Antiquarian bookseller. > Crowley I am not so sure about but I would make him > an Impudite with a > Role/1. Actually, if you stick to canon, Crowley's a Balseraph. One of the more well known ones, in fact. Check the story: Crowley is identified as the serpent who got Adam and Eve to eat the apple. Canon identifies such as Ophis, a Seraph (later Balseraph, of course), in Baal's service. It can even work, too, since I don't think we've heard what actually happened to Ophis afterwards. The normal assumption is that he was rewarded (and Baal _did_ name a distinction after him), but if he had Crowley's personality, that might not follow. So, yeah, my vote is for Balseraph, but one who's got a reasonably consistent worldview, and doesn't use his resonance much at all. > I guess that Aziraphale serves Destiny and > Crowley The Game. I could see Fate, myself, although he seems to prefer Destiny's approach of caring for everybody to Kronos' usual method of focusing on major Fates. See his cellphone-shutting down tactic in the beginning. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 12:15:08 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Good Omens Destiny and Fate are generally good Words to give literary celestials being adapted to IN. One tries to get you into Heaven, the other into Hell, and that's the general function of literary celestials. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 12:48:34 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> War Faction and Elohim >>Ever notice that both the Elohim Superiors are clear members of the *War* >>Faction? >This is an interesting statement. Khalid is, certs. But is Jean really >_War_ faction? I've always thought of Jean as "support personel," not directly involved in the shooting but tending to Logistics, Intel and, of course, R&D. I doubt he gets too close to being a "Military Industrial Complex." (Read: War for the sake of a Profitable Business.) There is no question that he shoots, shoots straight and shoots in quantity. There's just some that wish he'd shoot more often. But that's Lightning for you. "Think, think, think, think, think think think." -Winnie the Pooh BC Petery http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 12:48:31 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> little query >Assuming that that Superior knows about it... point in case being the Bound >discord (combined with Mute, and a Panda vessel. I love Dark Humour plots*. >:) Well, if you're just trying to annoy the Servitor/Superior don't forget to strip the Songs of Tongues and Calling... Damn, they can still try to summon their Superior. The Song of Seals only lasts CD + (realm)F in minutes. But then again, it's someone else's Superior performing the song. That just might last a while. >Umm... is there a difference between Force-stripping and loosing a Force >from Soul Hits? I think so. The Soul Hit method causes the Force lost to be dissapated into the Symphony. Stripping allows the Superior to keep the Forces. And now that I think about it, nothing was ever said about the disposition of Mira's lost Forces. >Inflicting Discord really seems to be _altering_ a creatures Forces, >albeit in a minor way, and I would regard that as being somewhat harder >than just severing them. Dissonance being an internal problem rather than an external one? I can see that. Probably best to say that Dissonance is an internal conflict between a Celestial's actions and Word. More dramatic. More pathos. "One man's angst is another man's pathos." -Pete - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- And now for something completely different: The VapuTek Discord Cannon (TM). The perfect relic for the Celestial who already has three Flaming Swords (blue, green, purple; Collect 'em all!), The Thor Action Set (hammer, belt and gauntlet), an Unholy BAR .50, a Limbo Stick and a MacNorma's Doorman. "I'm not being silly! I'm being profoundly silly!" -Pete Pete, Demon of Misinformation http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/IN/pete.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 18:01:18 +0000 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> little query >From: BC Petery >Subject: IN> little query >Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 12:48:31 -0400 >Well, if you're just trying to annoy the Servitor/Superior don't forget to >strip the Songs of Tongues and Calling... Damn, they can still try to >summon their Superior. If you're capturing and forcibly inflicting Discord upon the poor sucker anyway, remember that Geas is a Discord. Geas/6 -- "Do not invoke your Superior". (Alternatively, Geas/6 -- "Don't even try to get out of this one.") And enough Celestial Charm so that he totally blows his Will roll when you hit him with it. - -- Chuckg (Geasa. They're not just for Lilith anymore. :-) ) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 13:41:48 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Good Omens Kelly Pedersen wrote: > Actually, if you stick to canon, Crowley's a > Balseraph. If you stick to canon, Crowley and Aziriphale don't exist, so that's a moot point. Crowley's personality doesn't even remotely fit that of a Balseraph. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 13:47:35 -0500 From: "Gregg Forge" Subject: Re: IN> Laurence and the Brights... > > So you would say that he DOES take this into account, then, in his > > immediate demands? > >When a potentially invaluable weapon becomes available to Heaven's forces, >at least putting in a requisition request is the duty of a good commander. >Ergo, Laurence puts in a request for each of the extremely rare Brights >that >make it to Heaven. You're not answering the question. There is no doubt that he's been made well-aware of the fact that, given the creator of the Lilim, in the first place, and the nature of the Lilim, regardless of whether they are Bright or not, is in nearly direct opposition to the rigidly Malikite heirarchy that Laurence maintains ( A Malakite Archangel running a Malakite's dream organization ). While a good general, of course, makes use of any and all weapons immediately, this particular over-requisition of an already scarce resource seems...well...he's not the only Archangel. It seems more than a little selfish, to me. Not that Malakim are exactly incapable of Selfishness... Kamika-Z, still waiting for an answer; does he take it into account or not? _________________________________________________________________ Join the world s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 19:56:53 +0100 From: "Stephen McIlvenna" Subject: IN> Angel of the Home Geniel, Angel of the Home, Cherub Vassal of Flowers CORPOREAL 5 Strength 10 Agility 10 ETHEREAL 6 Intelligence 12 Precision 12 CELESTIAL 5 Will 10 Perception 12 Vessel: Middle-aged female/3; Role: 'Jenny Smith' Estate Agent/3, Status 5 Skills: Artistry (Interior Design)/3, Dodge/2, Emote/3, Fighting/1, Knowledge (Architecture)/3, Savoir Faire/2, Seduction/2 Songs: Dreams (Coporeal/4, Celestial/3), Empathy (Ethereal/3), Harmony (Ethereal/3), Healing (Corporeal/3, Ethereal/3), Laughter (Corporeal/1), Seals (Corporeal/5, Ethereal/4, Celestial/5), Solace (Ethereal/3) Attunements: Cherub of Flowers, Cherub of Stone, Cherub of Dreams Special Rite: Enable somebody to spend two hours in relaxation. Also: Spend eight hours successfully protecting a sleeper from active forces of danger (Dreams); Build, by hand, a one-room stone house large enough to sleep two people comfortably (Stone); Spend two hours tending to a human in need (Protection) "Danny closed his front door, blocking out the sounds of early evening traffic. He dropped his briefcase in the hall and hung his coat on its peg. Wearily he made his way to the living room, started a CD playing and collapsed into his favourite chair. He closed his eyes to listen to the music and forget about the stresses and demands of his day. It was good to come home." Geniel is one of the oldest Servitors of Flowers. In fact, she fledged as a Cherub of Stone and changed Superior shortly after Novalis gained Archangel status. Stone's concepts of strength and defence were shaped by Flowers' belief in nurturing and support to influence the convictions that define her Word. She has served it faithfully for many thousand years - never gaining a truly prominent role in Celestial politics, but quietly supporting humanity and backing up a range of other Heavenly Words. The Angel helps people find the home best suited to them and works to defend it as a place of security and rest. Geniel recognises the many obstacles people face in their lives and views home as a place of refuge - a blessing from God where they can regroup and gain His strength to face the challenges from other aspects of their lives. To the Cherub 'home' is defined as that place where a person has the greatest sense of belonging and where they feel comfortable to be themselves with no fear of hostility from the rest of the world. For most people this means the dwelling they live in. For some it extends to their local neighbourhood or an entire city. For others it may refer to the hours they spend with friends at the weekend or that private period on the train journey between family and office life. For a few the only place they feel truly at home is in the isolation of their Dreamscape. Geniel recognises all these as falling within her Word and endeavours to give people the ability to find that place of rest and gain strength from it. Most Servitors of Stone initially frown upon the Angel of the Home, lumping her in with other Servitors of Flowers as weak and over-protective of humanity. However those who get to know her realise her Word is about enabling people to face the hardships of life, not avoid them. Indeed Geniel takes exception to those who would try to hide at home and who lack the courage to face the world. It should also be noted that David has not removed his Choir attunement and has, in fact, granted access to one of his advanced Rites since she left his service. Geniel has very strong ties with the Angel of Neighbourhoods and Angel of Families and a good working relationship with most Servitors of Protection and those Servitors of Dreams who guard sleepers. The angel likes to monitor those in her charge as they Dream but is sensible enough to seek help from the true experts of the Marches if trouble arises. Her main opponents are those who pose a threat to the security and peace of a person's home, whether that source be mundane or Infernal in nature. She was initially slow to spot the extent to which the Media had invaded people's homes (television seemed to do such a good job of letting people relax in the evening), but has stepped up her vigilance in recent years. Antagonism is growing between Geniel and a rising Servitor of Trade who is promoting the concept of remote-working. Advances in communication and computing technology are being backed by Marc as tools to allow people to avoid the stresses of long commutes and to pursue busy careers while spending less time away from their families. Geniel only sees that the burdens of office-life are being brought into people's homes and has witnessed one too many arguments when children returning from school try to play with Mummy while she's working. Marc is trying to get his young Servitor Word-bound, which could only increase tension with the Angel of the Home. Stephen http://www.btinternet.com/~s.mci/innomine/inindex.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 14:57:53 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Good Omens I'd have pegged Crowley for an Impudite. Note that he takes care that none of his miracles actualy kills anyone human. The snake vessel was just part of the assignment. That means not identifying him with Ophis, or changing Ophis to an Impudite with a snake vessel. But both of those are fairly small tweaks to canon.Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 15:08:24 -0400 From: "Adams, David" Subject: RE: IN> Laurence and the Brights... From: Gregg Forge While a good general, of course, makes use of any and all weapons immediately, this particular over-requisition of an already scarce resource seems...well...he's not the only Archangel. It seems more than a little selfish, to me. Not that Malakim are exactly incapable of Selfishness... It would be rude to deny the Brights their choice of superior. From what I gathered, redeemed Angels are allowed to choose their superior. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 15:12:04 -0400 From: "Patrick None" Subject: Re: IN> Good Omens Is canon that big a deal in a setting where Metatron still lives, theres apparantly one angel and one demon in all of England, and Tibetians stalk the Earth Below? Patrick ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 14:30:34 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Good Omens From: "Earl Wajenberg" > > I don't know of a write-up, but Aziraphale is identified as one of > the cherubim at the gates of Eden, so you at least have his choir. And it explains perfectly why he never wanted anybody to buy a book from his shop. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 12:35:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Kelly Pedersen Subject: Re: IN> Good Omens - --- Patrick None wrote: > Is canon that big a deal in a setting where > Metatron still lives, theres > apparantly one angel and one demon in all of > England, and Tibetians stalk > the Earth Below? No, not really. I was just pointing out a thing that could be helpful in pegging his nature, if one was to do a writeup of him. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 14:40:22 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Good Omens From: "Brook Freeman" > > Crowley seems to buck the system just a little too much to be The Game, I'd > be more inclined to go with Dark Humor or Fate. I'd go with Dark Humor, since Kronos wasn't a prince until long after Crowley had been posted Earthside. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 14:42:04 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Good Omens From: "Kelly Pedersen" > > Canon identifies such as Ophis, a Seraph In the book, the name of the demon who does the dirty work is Crawley. And Crowley acts far more like an impudite than a balseraph... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 12:49:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Kelly Pedersen Subject: Re: IN> Good Omens - --- David Edelstein wrote: > Kelly Pedersen wrote: > > Actually, if you stick to canon, Crowley's a > > Balseraph. > > If you stick to canon, Crowley and Aziriphale don't > exist, so that's a > moot point. Of course, this arguement could be used to justify ignoring any Band or Choir for them, or Superior, or anything. Its just one more data point potentially tying the two worlds together. > Crowley's personality doesn't even remotely fit that > of a Balseraph. Does his personality really resemble _any_ Band that closely? He doesn't lie pathologically, or think he's always telling the truth (As an aside, _can_ Balseraphs make use of the Lying skill without using their resonance? According the main rulebook, they still think they're as truthful as Seraphs, which would seem to indicate that they _have_ to use their resonance whenever they lie. But I dislike the idea of limiting the players that way. Any canon on this?). But he's also not particularly uncaring, or possessive about his personal things (witness his willingness to sacrifice his car when things got messy), so Djinn doesn't fit. He doesn't appear to be randomly destructive, or to have an aura of entropy, so Calabite doesn't really work. He doesn't think he's an angel, not is he interested in punishing humans and sorting out the weak from the strong, so Habalite is out. Lilim might work... He does enjoy tempting people. But he's not particulary mercenary, and he does favors without particularly expecting returns. Shedite is right out, I think. He doesn't like many of the purely nasty things humans do, and there's the obvious problem that he has a vessel, not a host. Impudite might work, as others have pointed out, due to his desire not to kill humans. OTOH, he's not noticably any more charming than a normal person, and he doesn't go out of his way to make friends with humans, either. In short, I'd say that Crowley doesn't really display _any_ of the more extreme personality traits of any of the major Bands. I could see a player play a demon like him with almost any band except a Shedite. My primary picks for his band would be, in fact, a tie between Impudite and Lilim, followed by an unusually non-deluded Balseraph. "Doesn't remotely resemble" is, too me, rather too strong. Unless, of course, Balseraphim _can't_ lie without using their resonance, in which case I would have to agree with you. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 15:51:41 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Angel of the Home Very good. I could almost see this Word becoming an Archangel. It's at least as important and multi-faceted as the Sword. One suggestion: How about the name "Bethel," meaning "House of God"? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 12:57:21 -0700 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: Re: IN> Angel of the Home Great bit of work. In my opinion, she would be more suitable as a Servitor of Stone than Flowers, but either one works nicely. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 14:58:23 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Laurence and the Brights... From: "Gregg Forge" > > > So you would say that he DOES take this into account, then, in his > > > immediate demands? > > > >When a potentially invaluable weapon becomes available to Heaven's forces, > >at least putting in a requisition request is the duty of a good commander. > >Ergo, Laurence puts in a request for each of the extremely rare Brights > >that make it to Heaven. > > You're not answering the question. That's because your question is irrelevant to the question I *am* answering. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 20:07:00 +0000 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Laurence and the Brights... >From: "Prodigal" >Subject: Re: IN> Laurence and the Brights... >Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 14:58:23 -0500 >That's because your question is irrelevant to the question I *am* >answering. Indeed. And another thing I did not understand was the implicit accusation that Laurence is 'denying them free choice' or something. Let us yet again underline the point that Laurence is making *requests*, not demands. Sometimes, the requests are granted. Other times, they are refused. At which point Laurence shrugs and continues on with his work. Again... this is idiocy? - -- Chuckg (PS -- incidentally, where is it said that the other Archangels *don't* rush to put in their own requests when a newly-redeemed Bright Lilim is ready for first assignment? Brights are not just valuable and scarce resources to Laurence, they're valuable and scarce to *everybody*.) _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 16:09:25 -0400 From: "Adams, David" Subject: IN> Magog Anyone out there know of a good write-up of Magog? I am looking for the Habbalah of Cruelty attunement to flesh out a character I have in the works. Thanx Dave Commuting in DC is enough to drive just about anybody to violence ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 15:26:12 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Good Omens Kelly Pedersen wrote: > Of course, this arguement could be used to justify > ignoring any Band or Choir for them, or Superior, or > anything. Its just one more data point potentially > tying the two worlds together. The point is that if you say Crowley was the serpent in Eden, you're already changing canon, so there's no reason to try to make Crowley be the same Band as Ophis. > Does his personality really resemble _any_ Band that > closely? He's plausible as an Impudite (and somewhat less so as a Djinn or a Lilim). He's not plausible as a Balseraph. > (As an aside, _can_ > Balseraphs make use of the Lying skill without using > their resonance? No. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 15:28:25 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Magog "Adams, David" wrote: > > Anyone out there know of a good write-up of Magog? I am looking for the> Habbalah of Cruelty attunement to flesh out a character I have in the works. You don't like the published one? - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 20:27:28 +0000 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> Angel of the Home >Great bit of work. In my opinion, she would be more suitable as a Servitor >of Stone than Flowers Just what I was thinking. I especially like the fact that not only is her Word something that can be supported by all of Heaven (even the hard cases like Jordi and Dominic have their lairs and judges' chambers), but by some of Hell also -- Lilim in Shal-Mari, for instance. Janet Anderson _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 16:29:28 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Good Omens >> I guess that Aziraphale serves Destiny and >> Crowley The Game. > >I could see Fate, myself, although he seems to prefer >Destiny's approach of caring for everybody to Kronos' >usual method of focusing on major Fates. See his >cellphone-shutting down tactic in the beginning. Crowley might actually make a good demon of the Media, with their focus on spreading the corruption around to the masses, bit by bit. However, that doesn't seem to be the viewpoint of his bosses and colleagues, who are very much into the traditional "one soul at a time" schtick. So I'd say, yeah, he's with Fate at the moment, but bucking for a transfer (very carefully). William ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 16:35:13 -0400 From: "Adams, David" Subject: RE: IN> Magog From: David Edelstein You don't like the published one? Didn't know there was one. I only have three books, GURPS IN, YOU ARE HERE and Sup. 1. Now if someone would be so kind as to tell me which book the published one is in, I can continue on my merry way. Dave ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2641 ********************************