in_nomine-digest Saturday, May 18 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2644 In this digest: Re: IN> little query Re: IN> Laurence and the Brights... IN> Balseraphs (Re: Good Omens) Re: IN> Balseraph resonance IN> [Admin smackdown] Re: Good Omens Music RE: IN> Laurence and the Brights... Re: IN> Those Pesky Balseraphs of Fate... Re: IN> Balseraph resonance Re: IN> little query Re: IN> little query Re: IN> Those Pesky Balseraphs of Fate... Re: IN> Balseraphs (Re: Good Omens) IN> Smackdown Re: IN> Angel of the Home IN> Lucifer's Word Re: IN> Lucifer's Word RE: IN> Laurence and the Brights... Re: IN> Balseraph resonance Re: IN> Balseraph resonance Re: IN> Lucifer's Word Re: IN> Lucifer's Word Re: IN> Lucifer's Word IN> The Book of Job IN> IN. Guildhall of the Free Lilim Re: IN> Good Omens Re: IN> Balseraph Resonance IN> Ethereal/Sci fi armada and Spin Offs.. (tm) Re: IN> Good Omens Re: IN> Ethereal/Sci fi armada and Spin Offs.. (tm) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 14:25:17 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> little query > Only Lilith and the Lilim can Geas. But it shouldn't be too hard for a > Superior to twist an arm or two. I thought any Superior could inflict any Discord, and that Geas was on the Discord list. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 13:37:44 -0500 From: "Gregg Forge" Subject: Re: IN> Laurence and the Brights... >LADIES AND GENTLEMEN! >PERFORMING FOR A LIMITED TIME ONLY! >LET'S HEAR IT FOR... > >LAURENCE! >AND! >THE! >BRIGHTS!!!!! > *starts up the band, and suddenly, Laurence strides onto stage* I am the very model of an Archangelic Malakite, o/~ I never will submit to hell, I'm mighty handy in a fight! o/~ My blades all gleam, and well, it seems, that though I'm Heaven's General o/~ My ears oft sting, and sometimes ring, with 'He'll never match Uriel...'o/~ *sigh* I'm patron of the Catholic Church, a wise and sacred ediface! o/~ My Servitors and I strive to keep it worthy of God's Good Grace! o/~ I'm Black-Winged, Valiant, Handsome, Bold, and Guarenteed to never Fall o/~ No matter how many of Lilith's Offspring Redeem from her Hall! o/~ *and thusly did the Lilim Echo, all done up in lacey lingerie* He's Black-Winged, Valiant, Handsome, Bold, and Guarenteed to never Fall o/~ No matter how many of us girls redeem from our Mother's Hall...o/~ > >"Dissent is not sacred; the right of dissent is." -Thurman Arnold > >BC Petery >http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/ Damnit, now I have to write the whole accursed thing... Kamika-Z, needing to exorcise G&S from his head... _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 15:14:48 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Balseraphs (Re: Good Omens) At 12:49 PM -0700 5/16/02, Kelly Pedersen wrote: >(As an aside, _can_ >Balseraphs make use of the Lying skill without using >their resonance? According the main rulebook, they >still think they're as truthful as Seraphs, which >would seem to indicate that they _have_ to use their >resonance whenever they lie. But I dislike the idea of >limiting the players that way. Any canon on this?). Sorry -- in a Balseraph's own mind, he speaketh truth. If he speaks something he _KNOWS_ is not true (i.e., uses Lying skill), then he will take dissonance, just as if he were a Seraph. As a house-rule, you could always have the Bal make a non-resisted resonance roll, affecting _itself_ only, so that it would show up as deluded instead of lying -- but no one would have any compulsion to believe it. Use Emote, though, not Lying -- even in that case, the Balseraph isn't lying. It's just living in its dreamworld without sharing the dream. O:> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 15:19:48 -0400 From: "Steven E. Ehrbar" Subject: Re: IN> Balseraph resonance Patrick None wrote: >Fair enough. I suppose that I'd read Lying to include the sort of human >version of Balseraphs, who are crazy enough to believe what they're saying a >moment at a time. really, I do understand the logic of why balseraphs don't >get to use the Lying skill. it just seems that it means hell's greatest >liars are, once you hit that statistically vital 7 Will, kinda crappy liars. > "On an unsuccessful resonance roll, a successful Detect Lies will reveal the Balseraph is lying (ignore the check digit in this case)" - IPG, p.27. Accordingly, as near as I can tell, to detect that a Balseraph is lying, you need to make *both* the resistance roll _and_ a Detect Lies roll. Now, of course, somebody sucessfully making on a Detect Lies roll will still fail half the time against somebody sucessfully using Lying, since the check digit comes into play. But you need to succeed twice against Balseraphs, and if you fail the first time, you can't help but believe them. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 15:52:34 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> [Admin smackdown] Re: Good Omens Music At 8:32 PM -0400 5/16/02, Patrick None wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" >To: >Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 8:25 PM >Subject: RE: IN> Good Omens > > >> Has anyone besides Queen done a "Best of Queen" album? >> > >Tchaikovsky's "another one bites the dust" >William Byrd's "We are the champions" >Beethoven's "I want to break free" >the best of the lot - Vaughan Williams "Fat-Bottomed Girls." >Courtesy of Crowleys Car Recordings, Good Omens, London. Ahem! Forbidden thread alert! This has nothing to do with IN, and is full of music stuff. Two strikes against it. Listrules, everyone! - --Beth, List Admin http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/listrules.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 16:25:18 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: RE: IN> Laurence and the Brights... At 11:24 PM -0500 5/16/02, Gregg Forge wrote: >> > then >> > Laurence demands they be requisitioned to him >> > immediately >> ...but not this. As was posted earlier, Laurence >>requests that the Bright be assigned to him. If he were to >>demand it -- especially in his capacity as Commander of the >>Armies of God -- I doubt that there would be much argument. >> > THAT part remains, for lack of a better term, not-so-spelled out; by MY >reading, he demands, which is nothing more than a rather vocal and emphatic >request. *ahem* From my reading of it, which, er, hopefully has some value... The semantics are important. He requests it, he does not _command_ it. Also note that the whole thing was carefully written to ensure that Heaven didn't sound too nicey-nice. The tone of the game, while more good/bad definied than the original book (or the original, yes, Perry), is still aiming at "gray enough that people can run with it either way. This means that the request is as strident or calm as the GM wills, and is obeyed as much or little as the GM wills. If the GM is running IN backwards, then OF COURSE the runt with the Sword always gets his Lilim, and you don't want to know what he does with them... (See Tattered for even more on this, or the BalProp (ask in email, state you are 18+).) If the GM is running IN very black and white, then the request is more along the lines of an information point: "Please see if the new angel would be willing to join my organization; Princes are so very feudal, she may not realize she has a choice. Of _course_ she can come over for a 'trial period' to see if she gets along here." In either case, it is, indeed, a REQUEST. Not a demand, not a command. It's a bit of plot to be embroidered on or given a cursory glance and tossed to one side ("After weeks of deliberation, you are assigned to X. We resume the game in the coffee shop, afterhours, discussing the latest assignment from Joiel's immediate superior."), as the needs of the plot, campaign, and player dictate. [...] > Good point, and one that I had underestimated; while the Seraphin Council >is the oldest, wisest organization of Judgement, they do take into account >the desires of those whom they hold hearing over. [...] And probably err more on the side of caution, actually. C.f. the Bright of Creation IST Flowers, in the Liber Servitorum. (Who, some feel, illustrates the 'culture clash' that some redeemed have...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 16:26:59 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Those Pesky Balseraphs of Fate... At 3:40 PM -0700 5/16/02, W S wrote: >Kronos' Balseraphs gain the dissonance and attunement >of a Choir. Here's two questions, one a bit more >general than the other. > >1) Can a Balseraph buy this Attunement more than once? No. > (Also applicible more generally- if an Attunment can >be used in multiple ways upon purchase, can it be >bought more than once?) It depends; find me all the attunements like that and I'll see if there's a common thread or not. O:> >2) Why do Seraphim-Balseraphim gain dissoance for >invoking their Balseraphic resonance? Because a Seraph knows TRUTH, and a Balseraph tries to _make_ truth. So the Bal resonates and then the Seraph side of him says, "You LIAR!" and bam, he's got self-contradiction and eats dissonance. (Now, the suggestion of using the Balseraph resonance to impose something already _believed_, much like the Divine Logic attunement -- sure, why not? It's true enough that the Bal believes it already. The Seraph side won't have a qualm with that.) If it ever gets changed, it'll be in whatever book has Kronos in it. Or else it'll get a better explanation. I'm not going to worry much about it at the moment. The EPG is posing enough interesting question that I'm mulling over. O:> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 16:32:01 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Balseraph resonance At 1:29 AM -0400 5/17/02, EDG wrote: >At 12:56 AM 5/17/02 -0400, you wrote: > >I've been operating on a serious inaccuracy here: I can't find anywhere >that actually says that using the Lying skill generates dissonance in a >Balseraph. Oh well. :) Actually, it says they _can't_, because they never think they're lying. I think this is being relaxed to, "Well, sure. If they want to eat dissonance like a Seraph." I suppose we could always errata the IPG. >> If I'm another demon, and its a Balseraph? Sure. I'll keep making Will >>rolls. If I roll a 666, it won't hurt me, and I know that Bal will have to >>eat dissonance. > >Yeah, but if you roll a 111, it *will* hurt you... and that Bal will only >have to eat dissonance if he's actually using his resonance on you. However, on this respect, I think I'd say that you get a Will roll only as needed. Still, if you fail it, you don't realize that you failed it. O:> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 16:41:34 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> little query At 2:16 PM -0400 5/17/02, BC Petery wrote: >>>Assuming that that Superior knows about it... point in case being the Bound >>>discord (combined with Mute, and a Panda vessel. I love Dark Humour plots*. >>>:) > >>If you're capturing and forcibly inflicting Discord upon the poor sucker >>anyway, remember that Geas is a Discord. > >Only Lilith and the Lilim can Geas. But it shouldn't be too hard for a >Superior to twist an arm or two. It's a Discord, it's technically within the realm of Superiors to impose it, Lilim or not. Indeed, the GMG, p. 99, specifically mentions them. (Though if the Servitor is not your own, the Servitor must agree to it!) Game Master's Guide. Very useful. On the other hand, see also Discord Bracelets, from the Liber Reliquarum... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 16:45:53 -0400 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: Re: IN> little query > It's a Discord, it's technically within the realm of Superiors to impose > it, Lilim or not. Indeed, the GMG, p. 99, specifically mentions them. > (Though if the Servitor is not your own, the Servitor must agree to it!) So how did Wrenchnail get a Geas to Furfur in Night Music? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 16:46:54 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Those Pesky Balseraphs of Fate... >>2) Why do Seraphim-Balseraphim gain dissoance for >>invoking their Balseraphic resonance? > >Because a Seraph knows TRUTH, and a Balseraph tries >to _make_ truth. So the Bal resonates and then the >Seraph side of him says, "You LIAR!" and bam, he's >got self-contradiction and eats dissonance. > >--emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor >RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ Does the Seraph side of him get this information from the Symphony at large, or from the Bal's personal symphony? See, I've put a Balseraph NPC villain in before, and I probably will again, but I've approached the Balseraph resonance very gingerly, using a lot of Fast-Talk and self-resonance. (Besides, the villain's goal in that campaign was to nab a Hellsworn, so mind-control was a no-no.) The question in this is, is there a tiny part of a Balseraph that still knows what other people would call the objective truth? I wouldn't think so -- but every time I try to think about playing it that way, I start worrying that my Bal NPC is about to pile on Delusions by the handful. Obviously a Bal is obligated by his nature to believe his Resonance while it's in effect. But what about afterwards? I see no particular reason why a Bal would want to change his latest vesion of reality until it becomes incovenient for him. Or does it "wear off" of him just like it does his target? For that matter, how do people play the effect wearing off? Suddenly? Slowly? Here, take a scene. Bal resonates a local law enforcement officer, who decides to agree: "These aren't the droids we're looking for." Five minutes after they've gone by, what happens? Does he start to wonder why the hell he just agreed with the old geezer and moved on? Or does he just remember stopping a car with a couple of droids in it, deciding for some obvious reason that they weren't the droids being sought, and waving the occupants along, ho hum, boring day? What about the Bal -- those weren't the droids the troopers were looking for, okay. After his resonance wears off, he sees another trooper. Does he worry a little, inside, that the trooper is after his droids? Or is he still personally convinced that the trooper won't care, because those aren't the ones? Honestly, I could see it going both ways, or even more than one way with different people depending on the Will, Perception, and Intelligence of the victim. But I was curious as to what the general effects played were. William ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 12:55:07 -0800 From: "Brian Rogers" Subject: Re: IN> Balseraphs (Re: Good Omens) I've always felt that a Balseraph could say pretty much whatever it wanted, but only rolled when it inflicted it's false truth on others. For instance, Lemuela the Balseraph, in her Role as Alexis Noble, P.R. Consultant, can walk up to someone and say, "Hi, I'm Alexis Noble," without having to make a Resonance roll. For second and a half it took her to say the words, she believed it. If she didn't invoke her Resonance on the person, that person might say, "But aren't you Lemuela the Balseraph?" and she would know she was, though she might choose to continue the lie, enforcing it with her Will. "No. Like I said, I'm Alexis Noble." "Oh, sorry, my mistake." I may have said it before, but I've always imagined a Balseraph's mind and a swirling, constantly shifting pool of lies and half-truths centered around a core of selfishness and paranoia. They believe what they want for exactly as long as it's convenient to them. They can make others believe it, too, but that takes a deliberate act of Will. The impression I've got is that their self-delusion ability is not really meant to be a drawback. Their main flaw is the ability of others to resist their Resonance, not their inability to actually lie. Sure, they'll become Dissonant if they deliberately lie, but no Bal would ever do that. It would be so much easier to create a convenient truth for a few seconds or minutes. I decided this because it would be easier on both the player and myself (as GM) to not have to enforce both a Seraph and Balseraph dissonance condition on the poor PC. Just my 0.664563 Czech Republic Koruny, Brian > > Sorry -- in a Balseraph's own mind, he speaketh truth. > If he speaks something he _KNOWS_ is not true (i.e., > uses Lying skill), then he will take dissonance, just > as if he were a Seraph. > > As a house-rule, you could always have the Bal make > a non-resisted resonance roll, affecting _itself_ > only, so that it would show up as deluded instead > of lying -- but no one would have any compulsion > to believe it. Use Emote, though, not Lying -- even > in that case, the Balseraph isn't lying. It's just > living in its dreamworld without sharing the dream. O:> > > > --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor > RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ > > > - -- _______________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 19:19:35 -0400 From: "Patrick None" Subject: IN> Smackdown Darn it. Umm. I meant to also include: "The Car." Celestial artifact, indestructable. A variety of vehicles have been bound into the general shape of the artifact which is "The Car." Believed to be the detrius of Eli's week long fascination with cars, each of these artifacts is a perfectly normal, usually vintage car. They get a little better milage then you might expect, and parts tend to be easy to find. However, after a (3d6 period in days) all cassettes, CDs, DVDs, 8tracks, MP3s, or any other form of audio medium left in the car transform into "the best of Queen." Disturbingly, they transform into the album "the best of Queen," while being performed by the artist of the original cassette, CD, etc. Canny Celestials have taken to looking for Spyders whose otherwise very classy drivers can be seen bopping their head to full orchestras performing "We are the Champions." Rumor persists of what happened after Vapula got ahold of one of the Cars - a monstrous, indestructable, movable wreckage that speaks in half Japanese half English to warn its driver of non-existant threats, whose airbags are rubber sacs that fire on the freeway, and whose parts are only available from one supplier, in Japan. Known victims of the car include: The cars effect causes no disturbance, and nothing short of driving a Car over an open gateway to the inner depths of Hell itself will cause any damage to the Car. Patrick Owie, owie, owie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 23:57:52 +0000 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> Angel of the Home > >, but by some of Hell also -- Lilim in Shal-Mari, for instance. > >The Guildhall of the Free Lilim never seemed like a home to me. Well, it wouldn't seem like a home to me, either, but to a demon ... the operative words here "a place where you feel safe." The definition of "safe" being relative, compared to the rest of Hell. Janet Anderson _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 20:19:55 -0500 From: "JamesStein" Subject: IN> Lucifer's Word This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C1FDE0.35775840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Generally, it's taken for granted that Lucifer's Word is Light He is, = after all, the Lightbringer, the Morningstar, etc. I've just been pondering, and I think that a word just as appropriate = for Lucifer, and perhaps one with just as much (or maybe more?) power = would be that of Life. I generally run Heaven and Hell as being diametric opposites of one = another. It is doubtful that everyone runs their campaigns this way, or = views the conflict in that fashion (depending, really, on how much = contrast you include in your game). But, assuming you've got a fair = amount of contrast... Heaven had the Angel of Death. This would lead me to believ that Hell = would have an Angel of Life.=20 For a moment, one would wonder how Life could be something infenal...and = yet, it goes back to Lucifer's role as the tempter. God said that all of = life is a trial, a test, a leap of faith. Life =3D Temptation, = essentially. However, I'm not sure whether I'd say that Temptation falls = under Life, or Life under Temptation.=20 Considering Life a stronger word (personal opinion), and Temptation = falling under it... I think that the devil might easily have the word of = Life. Just pondering how this would screw with the Novalines, who are always = against taking lives...=20 - -- - -------------------------------------------------------- "How did you get so Smart?" "Oh, I read eight or nine books a week. ... Also, I do a lot of speed" - ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C1FDE0.35775840 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Generally, it's taken for granted that = Lucifer's=20 Word is Light He is, after all, the Lightbringer, the Morningstar,=20 etc. I've just been pondering, and I think = that a word=20 just as appropriate for Lucifer, and perhaps one with just as much (or = maybe=20 more?) power would be that of Life. I generally run Heaven and Hell as = being diametric=20 opposites of one another. It is doubtful that everyone runs their = campaigns this=20 way, or views the conflict in that fashion (depending, really, on = how much=20 contrast you include in your game). But, assuming you've got a fair = amount of=20 contrast... Heaven had the Angel of Death. This = would lead me=20 to believ that Hell would have an Angel of Life. For a moment, one would wonder how Life = could be=20 something infenal...and yet, it goes back to Lucifer's role as the = tempter. God=20 said that all of life is a trial, a test, a leap of faith. Life =3D = Temptation,=20 essentially. However, I'm not sure whether I'd say that Temptation falls = under=20 Life, or Life under Temptation. Considering Life a stronger word = (personal=20 opinion), and Temptation falling under it... I think that the devil = might easily=20 have the word of Life. Just pondering how this would screw = with the=20 Novalines, who are always against taking lives... -- --------------------------------------------------------"How=20 did you get so Smart?" "Oh, I read eight or nine books a = week. ...=20 Also, I do a lot of speed" - ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C1FDE0.35775840-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 17:40:30 -0700 (PDT) From: W S Subject: Re: IN> Lucifer's Word I've actually given a good bit of thought to this, along with a couple of my friends. We've come up with a couple of canidates. A) Darkness. Duh. B) Light. Also duh. C) The Self. In the In Nomine universe, Selfish versus Selfless is one of the defining characteristics- the individual as opposed to the collective. My personal pick for Lucy's Word is either the Self or Selfishness- which thereby feeds directly on every act which weakens Heaven. D) Abstract Concepts. A somewhat silly idea, and one I'd rather save for a Prankster who asked for too broad a Word the first time. E) God/the Symphony. First of all, it's not like he'll suffer Word-Death. Second, it helps explain how Lucifier is able to do things no one else can, such as grant Words- even to humans. Third, the irony strikes me as intensely amusing, and the ultimate way to pervert the Symphony from the inside out. (Slight problem- how would the First have given himself this Word if the Word is what lets him give Words... my head hurts...) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 21:04:15 -0500 From: "Gregg Forge" Subject: RE: IN> Laurence and the Brights... > > THAT part remains, for lack of a better term, not-so-spelled >out; by >MY reading, he demands, which is nothing more than a >rather vocal and >emphatic request. > >*ahem* From my reading of it, which, er, hopefully has some value... Well, at the peril of disrepect, DUH! :) We -can't- argue with ye. At least, in regards to canon. Though I -would- consult on the question of whether an interpretation is possible, or absolutely not. >The semantics are important. He requests it, he does not _command_ it. Oh, yes! I agree with that! However, his request comes with rather thinly (or not, depending on campaign) veiled overtones, which would imply a question of one's loyalty to the cause of Heaven. I will clearly note that such is not IN the book; there's still loose enough interpetation room for HOW his requests come across. >Also note that the whole thing was carefully written to ensure that >Heaven didn't sound too nicey-nice. The tone of the game, while more >good/bad definied than the original book (or the original, yes, >Perry), is >still aiming at "gray enough that people can run with it either way. *ahem* Hooray for gray! (^_^) Add bleach or dye to taste! >This means that the request is as strident or calm as the GM wills, >and is obeyed as much or little as the GM wills. If the GM is running >IN backwards, then OF COURSE the runt with the Sword always gets his >Lilim, and you don't want to know what he does with them... (See Tattered >for even more on this, or the BalProp (ask in email, state you are >18+).) > Whoa, whoa, whoa...now, I'm not THAT vicious about his requests! Well, actually...er, no. Still, even in a regular setting, Laurence will have - -very- well thought-out, enumerated, lengthy document of why he should get them, almost to the point of (in a more comedic campaign) going the Lt. Fuzz route (for those who read Beetle Bailey). >If the GM is running IN very black and white, then the request >is more along the lines of an information point: "Please see if the >new angel would be willing to join my organization; Princes are so >very >feudal, she may not realize she has a choice. Of _course_ she >can come >over for a 'trial period' to see if she gets along here." > I like that approach, actually. However, I also would see that any attempt to refuse the request, given some of the issues that Laurence has had in the past with cooperation, it could be taken as an affront if he were to be outright refused. I don't think of Laurence as being super-thin-skinned; given some of the opinions held about him, I see him being rather no-nonsense, occasionally to excesses. Of couse, that's another thing left more than a little open to interpretation. >In either case, it is, indeed, a REQUEST. Not a demand, not a >command. >It's a bit of plot to be embroidered on or given a cursory glance and >tossed to one side ("After weeks of deliberation, >you are assigned to X. >We resume the game in the coffee shop, >afterhours, discussing the latest >assignment from Joiel's immediate superior."), as the needs of the plot, >campaign, and player dictate. > Alright. As it is so noted quasi-officially, I will at least concede the point, as by the ruling it's a request; not a subtley implied order, or a political leaning, but a simple request, leaving all other potential subtleties, subterfuges, and skullduggery to further interpretation as needed. > >[...] > > Good point, and one that I had underestimated; while the >Seraphin >Council is the oldest, wisest organization of >Judgement, they do take into >account the desires of those >whom they hold hearing over. [...] > >And probably err more on the side of caution, actually. C.f. the Bright of >Creation IST Flowers, in the Liber Servitorum. (Who, some feel, >illustrates the 'culture clash' that some redeemed have...) > I just realized I'd forgotten to include 'and aren't necessarily as anal-retentive as the Archangel who heads it'. :) I also just realized that a prior statement from another post is now rendered incorrect; I am missing only Liber Servitorum and Rev4. This must be remedied. Kamika-Z ...especially if I'm going to be so debate-prone... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 23:06:38 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Balseraph resonance > Now, of course, somebody sucessfully making on a Detect Lies roll will > still fail half the time against somebody sucessfully using Lying, since > the check digit comes into play. But you need to succeed twice against > Balseraphs, and if you fail the first time, you can't help but believe them. If the resisting entity is a PC, then the GM should make the Will roll for him/her -- asking if they wish to spend Essence, but without announcing whether it is a success or failure -- and then state "You think he is lying" or "You think he is telling the truth." Sort of like when the Thief checks for traps in D&D: you don't say "There are no traps," you say "You *detect* no traps". - -- Casca "Many people hear voices when no-one is there. Some of them are called mad and are shut up in rooms where they stare at the walls all day. Others are called writers and they do pretty much the same thing." --Margaret Chittenden, writer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 23:11:56 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Balseraph resonance > Asmodeus, choking down a chuckle: Yes, yes Baal. Your troops will cover the > left flank. Thank you Baal. <> Get five legions on > the left flank, Baals "tricked us" again. This assumes that Bals use their Resonance all the time. Far, far better to tell the truth 90% of the time, and lie/Resonate only when it's critical. Otherwise, everyone will disbelieve you on general principle. - -- Casca "Many people hear voices when no-one is there. Some of them are called mad and are shut up in rooms where they stare at the walls all day. Others are called writers and they do pretty much the same thing." --Margaret Chittenden, writer ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 02:16:32 -0300 From: "vez o'rama" Subject: Re: IN> Lucifer's Word >From: "JamesStein" >Subject: IN> Lucifer's Word > >Generally, it's taken for granted that Lucifer's Word is Light He is, after >all, the Lightbringer, the Morningstar, etc. Ack. I thought Lucifer was the Prince of Lies? :) - - vez _________________________________________________________________ Join the world s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 22:41:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Lucifer's Word - --- JamesStein wrote: > Just pondering how this would screw with the > Novalines, who are always against taking lives... ...unnecessarily.* Moe *What is defined as 'unnecessarily' will, of course, vary by campaign and personal taste. :) ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/13/02(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 06:05:06 +0000 From: "cassandra benner" Subject: Re: IN> Lucifer's Word >Ack. I thought Lucifer was the Prince of Lies? :) > >- vez Noop, Thats the fault of the Demon of Typos. Forgot to type the F when he was typing the Morningstars resume, and it just kinda stuck. Toodles Cas _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 09:56:40 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> The Book of Job Get your Bibles, Mark Twain & Wizard of Oz as e-texts at The Gutenberg Project! I couldn't find this while the Job thread was running, but better late than never. It's a free site, so be nice. ************* Public Domain books available as e-texts at The Gutenberg Project http://www.gutenberg.net/ or if you prefer ftp (and who doesn't?) Host: ftp.ibiblio.org User ID: anonymous Password: your_e-mail@site.tag Directory: /pub/docs/books/gutenberg/ Pick up the GUTINDEX.ALL file and see if they have what you want. ************* "Data, Watson, data. I cannot make bricks without clay." -Sherlock Holmes "Let's get it on!" -Mills Lane Pete, Demon of Misinformation http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/IN/pete.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 09:56:39 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> IN. Guildhall of the Free Lilim >(Imagining a SF/F/Shriner's/Tailhook convention that never ends. >Oh! The cleaning bills!) So... Who does clean the rooms? Do they need cleaning? And what happens if a forgetful demon leaves an artifact in the room? No lost & found here. Pay Lilith a Geas to get your gear back. "We don't morally censure you, we just want the money." -Michael Palin, The Blackmail Sketch Pete, Demon of Misinformation http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/IN/pete.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 14:29:16 +0000 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Good Omens Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 13:41:48 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Good Omens >Kelly Pedersen wrote: >>Actually, if you stick to canon, Crowley's a >>Balseraph. > >If you stick to canon, Crowley and Aziriphale don't exist, so that's a >moot point. I didn't know that Crowley and Aziriphale were specifically cited as characters who don't exist In Nomine game world. >Crowley's personality doesn't even remotely fit that of a Balseraph. Way to state an opinion as though it were God-given objective truth. ;) - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________ T鬩chargez MSN Explorer gratuitement ࠬ'adresse http://explorer.msn.fr/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 15:02:39 +0000 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Balseraph Resonance >Seraph-Balseraphs tend to be miserable creatures. > >- -EDG How so? They can determine whether or not anyone is lying to them and then they can then turn around and convince those people of what they believe (of "The Truth"). On top of that, neither Balseraphim or Seraphim lie, so there's no conflict there. Is there some sort of canon ruling on this or something? - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________ Rejoignez le plus grand service de messagerie au monde avec MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 11:11:09 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Ethereal/Sci fi armada and Spin Offs.. (tm) >*chuckle* >Hmm, do you reckon there is a bunch of lilim who go round making the _nerds_ >fantasies, all for a geas or three... Wow! Lilim following the SF/F convention circuit! Reminds me of the Deadheads who used to follow the Greatful Dead on tour. Balseraphs could be the Cardassians. >Kosh and the other vorlons seeming to be advanced forms of Kyriotates.. >Or some variant of the Mercurians [snip] Can't be Mercurians, Kosh's replacement (whatshisname) was remarkably brutal towards the younger races, and tried to kill Sheridan near the end of the Shadow War. "It is NOT silly! It is PROFOUNDLY silly!" -Pete Pete, Demon of Misinformation http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/IN/pete.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 11:15:42 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Good Omens From: "Perry Lloyd" > > >Crowley's personality doesn't even remotely fit that of a Balseraph. > > Way to state an opinion as though it were God-given objective truth. ;) Given that he's one of the people who writes for the game, it comes at least close. ;) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 11:20:47 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal/Sci fi armada and Spin Offs.. (tm) From: "BC Petery" > > >Kosh and the other vorlons seeming to be advanced forms of Kyriotates.. > >Or some variant of the Mercurians > [snip] > > Can't be Mercurians, Kosh's replacement (whatshisname) was remarkably brutal > towards the younger races, and tried to kill Sheridan near the end of the > Shadow War. Malakim. Possibly dissonant ones, but that seems the choir most close to the Vorlon outlook to me. I found the thought of the White Star fleet coming into being in the Marches quite amusing, given how Sheridan ended the Shadow war by telling both sides to bugger off to the Rim... ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2644 ********************************