in_nomine-digest Monday, May 27 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2654 In this digest: Re: IN> The Give "Carson a Word" Thread IN> Angelic Band Attunments IN> Cathedrals, Word-Bound, and Tethers - Odd Questions IN> New Song Re: IN> New Song Re: IN> New Song IN> Essence, the currency of the divine? IN> Lucifier's Lack of a Word Re: IN> Essence, the currency of the divine? Re: IN> Essence, the currency of the divine? Re: IN> the Angel of Hate Re: IN> the Angel of Hate Re: IN> Essence, the currency of the divine? Re: IN> Essence, the currency of the divine? Re: IN> the Angel of Hate RE: IN> the Angel of Hate Re: IN> Essence, the currency of the divine? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 11:20:17 +0000 From: "carson young" Subject: Re: IN> The Give "Carson a Word" Thread Wow, I have no idea what that one means. I don't think I could pronounce it in english, not to mention Helltongue. Until he finds out what psuedomymaty is, this is Carson, Demon of Evil Game Mastering > > > >>From: BC Petery > >>Carson, Demon of... > >"psuedomymaty in the face of greatness" >Trust me, it sounds better in Helltongue. > > > >Cas >*Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be Evil.* > >In Nomine @ http://www.angelfire.com/goth/psyber/i-n.html >In Nomine yahoo @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/inveritas >ADnD forum @ http://www.drunkendwarfinn.co.uk >ADnD stuff @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ADandD_Stuff > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 09:11:11 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Angelic Band Attunments >Djinn of Flowers: like Novalis' Cherubim, Stalkers of >Flowers can take on the pain of others -- but instead of >physical pain, they absorb psychological pain. Aww... I was going to make Djinn physical therapists. "Walk it off, kid. Heh." >Shedite of Flowers (Restricted): Ever notice how dandelions seem to duck when you go over them with a lawn mower? "I still don't like this ship. I have a queer feeling about it." Chief Officer (of the Titanic) Henry Wilde, in a letter to his sister. BC Petery http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 06:54:03 -0700 From: Arovyn Subject: IN> Cathedrals, Word-Bound, and Tethers - Odd Questions I have some odd question. A long time ago, back when the game first came out, I horribly misunderstood Cathedrals, Word-Bound, and Tethers in a really bad way... Back before Liber Castellorum said Word-Bound can't stabilize their own Tethers and before Heaven and Hell said that only Archangels and Demon Princes have Cathedrals, the game I ran worked like this: My party consisted of a whopping two angels - a Malakite of War and a Mercurian of Dreams. They made an odd pair, but seemed to compliment each other rather nicely. Given a chance for a Word, the Malakite took the Word of Redemption (having put several demons on the path of Redemption, it seemed fitting, and this was *well* before the GMG came out). The Mercurian took the Word of the Mind (and yes, I know just how potent that really is, and it's a neat little tale of how he pulled it off). At the time, I didn't understand how things worked, so the following happened: Each had a very small Cathedral form in Heaven. The Malakite had a tether in a church and the Mercurian had a tether in a small portion of the Smithsonian. After Heaven and Hell came out, I let them keep their minor Cathedrals. After Liber Castellorum came out, the game had more or less winded down. But it did lead to some interesting questions: 1. The Cathedrals are rest notes indicating the perfect expression of a Superior's Word, and the Lesser Archangels (and it says Lesser in H&H) which are often extensions of their Superior's (what Superior?!?). This makes absolutely no sense to me. My own take was that each Word a celestial held had a rest note like that in Heaven and Hell. But the power of a given Word determined its size. A Superior Word would be a huge "building" (depending on the Superior, of course) and a lesser Word-Bound would have a very small shack or maybe upwards of a small mansion-sized place. In canon, how exactly does a Cathedral form? Were they gifts from God and Lucifer (thus only Superiors getting one), or are they really manifestations of the Word - rest notes in the Symphony that form when a celestial is bound? I lean towards the latter. 2. Liber Castellorum states that Tether loci can form for a lesser Word-Bound, but where exactly does one appear for them? If they don't have a Cathedral, then where would it be? I suspect near their Heart, but then how would one know what Word it's forming for? It's all a bit confusing to me, even after re-reading it. Of course, it is only a sidebar. If lesser Word-Bound had their own Cathedral (even if a small builidng attached to their Superior's), it would make infinitely more sense to me. Thoughts, ideas, answers...? Arovyn ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 11:35:34 -0400 From: EDG Subject: IN> New Song I'm trying to figure out how best to balance this. I think I've got a good way to do it - but suggestions are welcome. - -EDG The Song of Serendipity (Secret: Eli, Vapula) Nobody knows quite who discovered the Song of Serendipity; although they are the only two Superiors who knows the Song, Eli denies having created it and Vapula alternately claims full credit for and disavows any knowledge of the Song. Although there are three Songs of Serendipity - one for each realm - they each essentially have the same function: the singer of a successful Song of Serendipity gains the skill they most need on their next roll that uses one of the appropriate attributes, at a level equal to the check digit of the Song roll. What skills can be granted depends on the version of the Song being sung: the Corporeal Song grants skills based on Strength and Agility, the Ethereal Song grants skills based on Intelligence and Precision, and the Celestial Song grants skills based on Will and Perception. The singer does not need to know what the appropriate skill is to use the Song; the Symphony takes care of that. The duration of the Song of Serendipity is a number of hours equal to (7 - the check digit); this is not how long the skill lasts, but the amount of time until the character makes his next roll. If he does not make a roll before the Song expires, the benefits are lost. The Song of Serendipity *will* work with existing skills, by adding the check digit of the Song roll to the existing skill level. This can raise skills above 6 for the purposes of calculating the target number. As with skills that the performer does not possess, however, the Song lasts only until the next roll the performer makes with the appropriate attribute. There is a catch, however: the Song not only requires 1 Essence but will drain the rest of the Essence from the performer. (In other words, at the end of the performance, the singer will be completely drained of Essence, regardless of how much he had when he began.) However, for every Essence past the second that the Song drains, the check digit rises by 1. Essence Requirement: 1 + all (see text) Degree of Disturbance: 1 + the check digit ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 11:54:46 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> New Song EDG wrote: > > I'm trying to figure out how best to balance this. I think I've got a good > way to do it - but suggestions are welcome. Being drained of all Essence is a pretty steep cost for a relatively minor ability. I'd also avoid having too many effects be based on the CD. My suggestion is to drop the Essence-draining effect, and just say the duration is until the next sunrise or sunset, whichever comes first. (This is supposed to be a mystical/Symphonic connection ability, after all.) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 11:31:33 -0700 From: Arovyn Subject: Re: IN> New Song On Sun, 26 May 2002 11:35:34 -0400 EDG wrote: The Song of Serendipity (Secret: Eli, Vapula) - ---I'd recommend adding Yves to the list. Serendipity seems to be his forte. There is a catch, however: the Song not only requires 1 Essence but will drain the rest of the Essence from the performer. (In other words, at the end of the performance, the singer will be completely drained of Essence, regardless of how much he had when he began.) However, for every Essence past the second that the Song drains, the check digit rises by 1. - ---A bit steep here. That's a LOT of Essence for an effect that doesn't last too long. Especially if you consider it being sung by a Word-Bound with several Word Forces. Maybe a good cost would be 1+Check Digit and keep the duration, or drain half of their Essence and let it run for until Sunrise/Sunset. My two cents. Arovyn ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 14:43:39 -0700 (PDT) From: W S Subject: IN> Essence, the currency of the divine? Mmm... mental failure to understand reality occuring. :) In Nomine, as do many energy-based systems, posits Essence as a sort of celestial currency. Celestials spend it and bargin with it and use it up. Outcasts and Renegades go on dangerous missions for Essence, covertly delievered by a secret suporter. Essence is treated, in every way, like corporeal money. Err... What? A) Essence is non-divisible. A point of essence is as small as it gets. You can give away fractions of points. That makes a point of Essence analogous to penny in function, although not in value. B) Celestials have a very limited maximum supply of Essence. Imagine if you could only hold nine pennies- how much more valuable are they to you now? And if you've already got nine, why would you try to get more? C) Essence regenerates on it's own. 90% of the time a Celestial is on Earth, they shouldn't be making noise or spending Essence. Your typical angel or demon should be able to perform at least one Rite a day, in addition to Sunrise/Sunset. So now, in addition to having only nine pennies, I'll give you one or two more a day, no matter what. Sure, having Essence would be important for time critical missions, but it seems... odd that Essence acts as a currency of the Divine or the Damned. Why any sane Outcast or Renegade would accept a dangerous mission (a mission in which they will likely /need/ Essence to perform Songs, bump skills, etc) instead of relaxing for a week or two is beyond me. Without some way of storing excess Essence, even if it's not easily attainable, I don't really 'get' how Essence is meant to serve the role that it seems to. Recommendations (Possible solutions!) Celestial Banks: I can fairly readily see Marc and Lilith both opening Essence banks, where angels and demons come by once a week or so and make a deposit- leaving themselves almost but not quite tapped out. The deposits would be routed to massive banks of reliquires. Of course, a small, nominal fee would be charged (Probally 1 points for every ten- or even more) during withdrawls. (This seems a bit comical, probally working better in a bright, low contrast game). Also, Outcasts and Renegades in Limbo could sometimes have massive transfers wired over, at the request of a signed authorization person... Inner Reserves: Angels and demons, through concentrated effort, can 'lose' some of their Essence, storing it... elsewhere. This Essence becomes an essential part of the Celestial's Symphony, but is no longer as readily accesible to them. Instead, they can either perform a simple Rite once a day (unique to each Celestial, and shouldn't take more than a minute or two) to draw one point back, or a more complex and dangerous affair (something taking several hours, or even days, which makes a lot of noise- but lets the celestial in question tap the full reserve at the end of it). This also helps explain how Limbo-trapped folks can hold on to so much Essence. - --- However, these options provide PCs with a LOT more potential Essence. Since their opponents should be on equal footing, this shouldn't be too much of a problem. And, if you running game of unfair advantage to one side or the other, only allowing the enemies such options (or allowing a harsher version for the PC's side) could prove very, very mean... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 15:07:20 -0700 (PDT) From: W S Subject: IN> Lucifier's Lack of a Word Wow. It was there, staring at us the whole time. And no one saw it. We all assumed that Lucifier gave himself or was granted a new Word upon Falling. That he used some mystic Balseraph THING to do this. Think how unusal the circumstances surrounding the first Fallen were. Some were Superiors at the Fall. They had Words. Falling and Redeeming is one of the few things that can Wordstrip a Celestial. When they landed in Hell, they were Wordless. But the ones who were Superiors were still Superiors. They were Wordless Superiors. It seems so obvious in retrospect. Lucifer has always been so ready to grant Words to just Fallen Superiors. It didn't take long at all before the War and Lust and Nightmares had been given out. And he would have made Khalid the Prince of Fanaticism in a heartbeat. And yet, no whisper is spoken of the First of the Fallen's Word. He is titled the Prince of Darkness, of Lies, and some say, still of Light, or Free Will or Self. The truth, as it often is, is more obvious. Lucifier doesn't HAVE a Word. He is a Wordless Superior. A Superior who has been steadily building up his power since the Fall, a Superior who would risk making his Princes more powerful than himself in the short to more firmly establish his power in the long- he is, in otherwords, privy to the powers normally limited to God precisely BECAUSE he has no Word. And one who jealously guards his unique status by offering Words to any Fallen Superior. And, by extension, neither does God. Further evidence: Unless I'm misremembering, Yves hadn't adopted his own Word of Destiny until after that Fall- and he granted Michael and company their Words at their creation. Further posit: The Seraphim Council's decision to 'grant a Word' is more an asking of God 'Hey, could you stick a Word on this guy?'. I know God can directly grant a Word- but has the (cannon) Council ever failed to? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 18:33:53 -0400 From: "Steven E. Ehrbar" Subject: Re: IN> Essence, the currency of the divine? W S wrote: >Without some way of storing excess Essence > Like, oh, reliquaries? >Celestial Banks: I can fairly readily see Marc and >Lilith both opening Essence banks, where angels and >demons come by once a week or so and make a deposit > Actually, the Bank of Hell, where you can deposit essence, is run by Mammon. Marc probably has something analogous set up in Commerce Park. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 16:04:47 -0700 (PDT) From: W S Subject: Re: IN> Essence, the currency of the divine? > Like, oh, reliquaries? Except Reliquries are both relativly rare and limited in amount of essence they can hold. IMO, one feature of a real economy is a lack of ceiling in the medium of exchange. > Actually, the Bank of Hell, where you can deposit > essence, is run by > Mammon. Marc probably has something analogous set > up in Commerce Park. > Really? Ah. Well, alrighty then. Next- celestial charge cards! ;) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 04:14:16 +0000 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> the Angel of Hate ______________________________________ Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 06:50:24 -0500 >From: David Edelstein >Subject: Re: IN> The Angel of Hate > >Vaughn Romero wrote: >>Given that an angel can hold a word view different from the way humans >>think >>about it, isn't BC Petery correct to say that there could be an Angel of >>Hate? Granted, I still think any such angel would Fall or beg for death >>because human attitudes about hate are currently so woefully un-angelic. >>IMHO any Angel of Hate has a big uphill battle. > >IMO, the Seraphim Council would never grant such a Word. "Divine Wrath," >"Righteous Vengeance," "Punishment," yes. "Hatred," no. > >- -David _______________________________________ Hate? Hate as a Divine, as found in ze Bible : Deuteronomy 16 Worshipping Other Gods 21 Do not set up any wooden Asherah pole [1] beside the altar you build to the Lord your God, 22 and do not erect a sacred stone, for these the Lord your God hates. http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=DEUT+16:21-23&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on _____________________ Psalm 31 5 Into your hands I commit my spirit; redeem me, O Lord , the God of truth. 6 I hate those who cling to worthless idols; I trust in the Lord . 7 I will be glad and rejoice in your love, for you saw my affliction and knew the anguish of my soul. http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=PS+31:5-7&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on _____________________ Psalm 45 6 Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom. 7 You love righteousness and hate wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy. 8 All your robes are fragrant with myrrh and aloes and cassia; from palaces adorned with ivory the music of the strings makes you glad. http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=PS+45:6-8&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on ______________________ Psalm 97 9 For you, O Lord , are the Most High over all the earth; you are exalted far above all gods. 10 Let those who love the Lord hate evil, for he guards the lives of his faithful ones and delivers them from the hand of the wicked. 11 Light is shed upon the righteous and joy on the upright in heart. http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=PS+97:9-11&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on ______________________ Psalm 119 103 How sweet are your words to my taste, sweeter than honey to my mouth! 104 I gain understanding from your precepts; therefore I hate every wrong path. http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=PS+119:103-105&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on _______________________ Isaiah 61 7 Instead of their shame my people will receive a double portion, and instead of disgrace they will rejoice in their inheritance; and so they will inherit a double portion in their land, and everlasting joy will be theirs. 8 "For I, the Lord , love justice; I hate robbery and iniquity. In my faithfulness I will reward them and make an everlasting covenant with them. 9 Their descendants will be known among the nations and their offspring among the peoples. All who see them will acknowledge that they are a people the Lord has blessed." http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=ISA+61:7-9&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on _________________________ hrm, the Koran... The Children of Israel verse 17:38 ("All this-- the evil of it-- is hateful in the sight of your Lord.") http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran/koran-idx?type=DIV0&byte=429259 The Believer [40.35] ("Those who dispute concerning the communications of Allah without any authority that He has given them; greatly hated is it by Allah and by-those who believe. Thus does Allah set a seal over the heart of every proud, haughty one.") http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran/koran-idx?type=DIV0&byte=733153 The Elevated Places [7.166] ("Therefore when they revoltingly persisted in what they had been forbidden, We said to them: Be (as) apes, despised and hated.") http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran/koran-idx?type=DIV0&byte=227087 _____________________________ Hrm ... While Christianity does express the idea of loving those who hate you, there certainly does seem to be a basis for the idea of the Lord/God/Allah hating those who worship other Gods, as well as those who deny his Instructions. Then again, this game isn't really based on religious texts. (right?) It's just Superheroes and Supervillians using Judeo-Christian-Islamic culture as a springboard. 8P - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________ Discutez en ligne avec vos amis, essayez MSN Messenger : http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 23:58:12 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> the Angel of Hate Perry Lloyd wrote: > While Christianity does express the idea of loving those who hate you, > there certainly does seem to be a basis for the idea of the > Lord/God/Allah hating those who worship other Gods, as well as those who > deny his Instructions. > Then again, this game isn't really based on religious texts. (right?) > It's just Superheroes and Supervillians using Judeo-Christian-Islamic > culture as a springboard. Tsk. Making a point with sarcasm should only be attempted by skilled professionals. Doing a word-search in a Biblical database hardly addresses the substance of the argument, which is that the "Angel of Hate," as depicted, and using only the bald, unqualified word "Hate" as his descriptor, doesn't fit with a Heavenly perspective very well unless one is running a campaign with the brightness level turned way down. Now, if you're running a variant of "In Nomine by the Book" based on a radical fundamentalist interpretation of Christianity, something like what Fred Phelps preaches, then an "Angel of Hate" would probably fit quite well. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 22:18:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Essence, the currency of the divine? - --- W S wrote: > Without some way of storing excess Essence, even if > it's not easily attainable, I don't really 'get' how > Essence is meant to serve the role that it seems to. That's why Outcasts and Renegades don't go on dangerous missions for Essence -- at least not at first. First they go on dangerous missions for Reliquaries. ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 If your principles don't inconvenience you from time to time, you don't really have any. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 22:26:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Essence, the currency of the divine? - --- W S wrote: > Except Reliquries are both relativly rare and limited > in amount of essence they can hold. But having three Reliquary/3's doubles a 9-Force Celestial's Essence capacity. Useful no matter how you slice it. > IMO, one feature > of a real economy is a lack of ceiling in the medium > of exchange. The problem you get with that (in RL, at least) is that a currency that has no hard resource to back it is effectively worthless. Essence, OTOH, is a perfect medium of exchange; it's indivisible, easily measureable, has tangible value and there's lots of it. The limiting factor is how much an individual Celestial can hold -- and Marc and Mammon are both well aware of inflation and the laws of supply and demand. Maybe Reliquaries are uncommon because neither side wants to devalue their currency. ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 If your principles don't inconvenience you from time to time, you don't really have any. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 22:29:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> the Angel of Hate Interesting examples, Perry. Now tell me, how accurate are those translations? Remember, none of the sources you quoted are originally in English. Does the word translated as "hate" in each source really mean that in each language? ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 If your principles don't inconvenience you from time to time, you don't really have any. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 00:10:57 -0600 From: Julian Mensch Subject: RE: IN> the Angel of Hate > Then again, this game isn't really based on religious > texts. (right?) It's just Superheroes and Supervillians > using Judeo-Christian-Islamic culture as a springboard. Is this such a bad thing? I'm glad the choose secular values of right and wrong for Forwards IN, because if they had tried to use more strongly Biblical value systems, the moral objectivism would have come off as a farce to the non-religious. And to paraphrase Eric Alfred Burns, if the War is a farce, it doesn't generate much drama. If you want a more baroquely religious IN, thrn sure, make hate "righteous" and damn pagans to Hell (as most of your quotes refer to). But (interesting as that idea is) canon has a good dramatic reason for not going there. And the clash of secular values with religious imagery makes for some wonderful comedy, like Moe's Angel of Kinky Sex, or the logically inevitable Demon of Fundamentalists. :) - -- Julian Mensch ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 05:25:16 -0700 (PDT) From: W S Subject: Re: IN> Essence, the currency of the divine? - --- Michael Walton wrote: > --- W S wrote: > > Except Reliquries are both relativly rare and > limited > > in amount of essence they can hold. > > But having three Reliquary/3's doubles a 9-Force > Celestial's Essence capacity. Useful no matter how > you > slice it. I'm not arguing useful- but if all you can carry is 18 pennies instead of nine, then each penny is still more valuable than a basic unit of current can be. Simply increasing the ceiling doesn't eliminate it- Each person can only have some finite amount of Essence, even if that finite cap is pretty damn big. > The problem you get with that (in RL, at least) is > that a > currency that has no hard resource to back it is > effectively worthless. Essence, OTOH, is a perfect > medium > of exchange; it's indivisible, easily measureable, > has > tangible value and there's lots of it. The limiting > factor > is how much an individual Celestial can hold -- and > Marc > and Mammon are both well aware of inflation and the > laws of > supply and demand. Maybe Reliquaries are uncommon > because > neither side wants to devalue their currency. While I agree about Essence being the perfect theoretical medium of exchange (it has the ultimate backer- the Symphony :)- well, an example. The least a store can charge for anything is 1 Essence. You go to Commerce Park where stuff like artifacts are for sale. How much Essence does an artifact cost? It's certainly more valuable than even a week's worth of total rest and recharging, and would probally have a cost upwards of twenty or thirty Essence /at least/ (for something like a Dodge/1 Talisman). What's the seller going to do with the excess Essence though? Unless he can use it right there, as it's coming in, it'll just bleed out into the Symphony. And before you posit reliquiries again, they are too damn rare for everyone, or even most people, to double or treble their Essence capacity with them. > > ===== > Michael Walton, #US2002023848 > If your principles don't inconvenience you > from time to time, you don't really have any. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2654 ********************************