in_nomine-digest Sunday, June 2 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2660 In this digest: Re: IN> Renegade? What's that? RE: IN> Songs of Limbo IN> Songs of Limbo Re: IN> Renegade? What's that? Re: IN> Songs of Limbo IN> Is combat in IN too draggy? IN> Why Malakim are Corporeal Monsters Re: IN> Renegade? What's that? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 22:18:41 -0400 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: Re: IN> Renegade? What's that? > Posit: Asmodeus is not stupid. > > What Game, therefore, is he playing? He's just playing -The Game-... You see, It's one thing to simply kill all Renegades on sight. But that's just treating the symptoms of Treason and Sedition, not handling the disease. For every Renegade that actually breaks his heart and runs out of Hell, there are most certainly thousands more who're too afraid to take that step, are waiting for the right time, or want to do some more damage to Hell before jumping ships. Remember, in Asmodeus' Relations write up, it says: "...some Inquistors might let treason in a Hostile force fester a bit longer, "just to see who we can smoke out".." It's perfectly reasonnable to assume that Asmodeus doesn't personally go and soulkill every single Renegade simply because some of those Renegades are too useful to simply kill outright: - -Maybe Renegade Calabim whatsisname can inspire a few more near-Renegades to take the step forward and reveal themselves to be Real Renegades, at which time The Game snaps them up. - -Perhaps Redeemed Wannabee manages to escape The Game, thinking he brings to Heaven vital information on Baal's future plans for Terrorist operations... when in fact all he has is a pile of Bull the Gamesters put together to mislead Heaven's tacticians, distracting them from the REAL next big operation... - -Maybe the Renegade in question is one of Valefor's Thieves, who decides to snitch out some of Valefor's secrets to the Gamesters in exchange for a Free Ticket out'a Stygia - -The Renegade's Prince could have planned for the Demon to go off on his own, as part of a greater conspiracy, in which case Asmodeus will find out and "get his cut" as it were, in exchange for non-interference. Of course, no matter what the scenario, Asmodeus merely -delays- the Renegade's punishment... No matter what, sooner or later, Gamesters are sworn to bring the Renegades back for Trial, Judgement and Execution... Besides, what Stalker can resist playing with his prey? - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 03:43:48 -0400 From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" Subject: RE: IN> Songs of Limbo Songs of Limbo - Increases the Singer's ability to twist and wiggle. All versions cost one Essence, but require a successful dance or acrobatics check to perform. Corporeal : Increases the singer's ability to dance by the check digit for a number of hours equal to their Corporeal Forces. Duration is increased to their entire Forces if the music being played has steel drums or has a Caribbean style. Duration is doubled if singer is wearing a Hawaiian shirt or a grass skirt. Ethereal : Allows the singer to argue or debate in a tortuous and twisty fashion, adding the check digit to all Fast Talk and Lying rolls for a number of hours equal to the singer's Ethereal Forces. Instead of the regular effect, Kobalites who perform the Ethereal version and spend all the Essence they currently have can choose to argue like Bugs Bunny, effectively convincing anyone of anything for their Forces in minutes unless the victim can make a Will roll with the amount of Essence spent as a penalty. Celestial : Allows the singer to twist and bend under the Symphony, adding the check digit as a penalty for any Seraph, Elohim or Malakim resonance made on the singer for a number of minutes equal to the check digit. This does tend to piss the Symphony off, and if the singer fails to perform it correctly, or the angel trying to resonate actually succeeds despite the penalty imposed, the singer will take Soul Hits equal to his Forces plus the Angels Forces plus the amount both Celestials spent in Essence as the Symphony lays a smack down on him for trying to pull a fast one. The Demon who rolls a Divine intervention rarely survives. The Angel who rolls a Divine intervention has some 'splaining to do. The Corporeal version is a favored song of Eli's servitors. The Ethereal one is favored for both Asmodeous and Kobal's servitors. Every demon wants to know the Celestial version, but few are willing to actually try and use it. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 14:57:40 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Songs of Limbo From: Kish >> Limbo Song of Projection (Secret) >> Your mind is projected into Limbo. You seem to pass out for CD minutes >> Corporeal time. Intellectually you have all the time in the world to think. >> >> This Song cannot be canceled prematurely. (So don't use it in combat.) >If you have all the time in the world to think no matter the check >digit, but higher check digits incapacitate you for longer, 1 is the >best possible check digit, and a lower check digit is always better than >a higher one. Yes, I know. Limbo is a strange and mysterious place. (Muah. Muah... Bwa-ha-ha-ha!) =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-= From: Michael Walton >Eeyah! PC's making their own Primordial Clay -- that's >one I'd be really careful with. As for LProj, I can see >philosophical types getting a lot of mileage out of it. Actually the Limbo Song of Creation was a bit "off the cuff." I saw the write up in L.Reliq. and thought . o O (Hey, I wonder which theoretical Limbo Song would be best for sucking that stuff through...). 5 minutes later and I had decided on the Song of Creation. I really don't recommend letting this particular Song loose in your campaign. It would actually be rather difficult to "invent" it using the New Song creation rules in L.Cant. (Superiors with the canon Songs of Creation would have an edge, buy they can make Vessels without it.) It, or it's results, might make an interesting McGuffin. ADVENTURE SEED Scene: Shielded Briefing room. Dominic/Asmodeus/whoever speaks: "Your mission is to find out where all this Primordial Clay is coming from. If you mention this mission to anyone not currently in this room I will personally hunt you down and destroy you. It's that important." ADVENTURE SEED Or even BETTER! When's the last time you saw the movie, "It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World"? Renegades, Outcasts and Free Lilim race to find the (now deceased) singer's stash of Clay! (Muah. Muah... Bwa-ha-ha-ha *koff-koff-wheeze*... Just keep an eye on Spencer Tracy.) =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From: "William J. Keith" >It's a neat thought -- and there's a throwaway line about an actual Song of >Limbo, which seems to toss its users into Limbo -- but you can't perform a >Song for a Realm in which you have no Forces. Limbo doesn't have Forces; >it doesn't have *anything*. Curses! Foiled again! No Wait! I Have It! Since Limbo doesn't have anything, if you _had_ Limbo Forces you _wouldn't_ be able... No, that'll never work. AH-HA!! Since there are no Laws Of Reality in Limbo, there is nothing to say that you _cannot_ do something! ...whatever... (Limbo _is_ a strange and mysterious place. If you want to wander away from the canon, it's not too far and the laws of Limbic reality _are_ different. Celestial Forteanisim anyone?) I've run out of things to say, BC Petery http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 15:40:04 -0400 From: Mike Bruner Subject: Re: IN> Renegade? What's that? At 05:45 AM 5/31/02 -0700, you wrote: >--- W S wrote: > > Posit: Asmodeus is not stupid. > > > > What Game, therefore, is he playing? > > The one where he conducts himself in a manner that >doesn't draw every single Archangel in Heaven down on his >head. If Azzie were to take down every single Renegade or >Redeemed in the manner that you suggest, that might well be >enough of an annoyance for Heaven to decide that it was >time for another Prince to go down. And considering >Azzie's unpopularity in Hell and the fact that other >Princes use Renegades for missions that require plausible >deniability, he couldn't count on backup from his own side. Not to mention that even with their vast stores of Essence, Superiors don't have an infinite amount of it. If Azzie is hopping around popping Renegades, he's going to be bleeding Essence like crazy, which makes him even MORE vulnerable to another Superior. I think there are plenty of logical reasons Azzie couldn't do it (if nothing else, I'd imagine if there WEREN'T such reasons the other Superiors would be suspicious). Still, one might wonder why he hasn't done so in a few more critical cases at least; doing it a few times would certainly scare other demons away from going Renegade wondering if they'd be one of the few. So it's possible in fact Azzie IS playing a different game than what it appears. Like I noted a while back, his Word like Baal's is one of the ones that will lose most if not all of its power if he "wins"; no other players, no more Game to play (picture a post-Victory Azzie trying desperately to stay alive by playing solitaire :)). Even if that consideration doesn't apply, if he did such a good job catching Renegades, no demon would do it and he'd wind up looking irrelevant in Hell (no Renegades means no flashy show trials and such as symbols of the Game's power, and if he tried to take his victims completely from loyal demons the rest of Hell would unite against him in short order). Not to mention if the Demon Princes need to use Renegades from time to time to cover their tracks, no Renegades means no deniable pool of labor. Maybe it suits his purpose to keep things loose enough for a few Renegades to cut free now and then, so he keeps his efforts to catch them reserved to his servitors. After all, Asmodeous respects a good player; if the demon in question runs well enough to avoid the already considerable obstacles against going Renegade, why not spot him the round in recognition of his or her talents? Not like he won't win the whole Game in the long run... - -- Mike Bruner-- mbruner18@comcast.net Give a hobbit a fish and he eats fish for a day. Give a hobbit a ring and he eats fish for an age. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 15:41:27 -0400 From: "Steven E. Ehrbar" Subject: Re: IN> Songs of Limbo BC Petery wrote: >From: "William J. Keith" > > >>It's a neat thought -- and there's a throwaway line about an actual Song of >>Limbo, which seems to toss its users into Limbo -- but you can't perform a >>Song for a Realm in which you have no Forces. Limbo doesn't have Forces; >>it doesn't have *anything*. >> >> > >Curses! Foiled again! > >No Wait! I Have It! Since Limbo doesn't have anything, if you _had_ Limbo >Forces you _wouldn't_ be able... No, that'll never work. > > Limbo is nothingness; thus, everyone has infinite Limbo forces, but they do nothing for a character outside of Limbo, except qualify them to sing Limbo songs. In Limbo itself, though, the infinite number of Limbo Forces is how a character can store an unlimited amount of Essence. Perhaps there is at least one Being Who lacks Limbo forces -- God. As He is Infinite, He does not contain any Nothingness. And then, perhaps, the source of Lucifer's current great powers is that, when he Fell, he somehow lost his Limbo Forces . . . ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 14:10:18 -0700 (PDT) From: W S Subject: IN> Is combat in IN too draggy? *takes aim at a hornet's nest* So, my GM ran a fairly combat-lite campaign, which was pretty fun. However, the few times we did get into combat, the pace became really slow. Not because the mechanics were complex- the d666 system is very nice in that regards :) But, rather, it just drug on.. and on... and on. When your typical celestial will have around 20 or 30 hits (in whichever realm you want, and easily more in a realm they specialize in) and most of the PCs in the party were doing basically straight CD damage (one had a Flaming Sword, and one had NC: Claws- the other two healed and fed Essence, or made straight-up attacks)- the combat took a REALLY long time. Especially since it was Celestial, and we'd stuck a Shield around the *!@#$@ Sheddite to keep it from running (Hate... Sheddim... ;) Possible solutions? None come to mind! Celestial combat takes a long time to really resolve, if both parties stay to duke it out. Possibly reducing the Celestial Hits to just the sum of Will and Perception would help (as opposed to CelF * Will), but perhaps not. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 14:18:52 -0700 (PDT) From: W S Subject: IN> Why Malakim are Corporeal Monsters So I was thinking about combat lately... Someone asked why Malakim are so heavily Corporeal-based. After all, it's Celestial Forces you need to really inflict damage. And besides, without a relible way to force a foe to celestial combat, they can always flee. Suggestion: A celestial, when their vessel dies, doesn't get 'blasted' into Trauma. Rather, they appear, unconcious and in Celestial form, and begin to slow ascend as their Hearts call to them. However, it requires at least (10 - CelF) to 'unconciously' ascend- meaning that a just killed Celestial is extremely vulnerable for that brief period of time. They can /not/ defend themselves (Roll attacks for CD, and add +1 Power). Suddenly, it makes sense for Malakim to be about equally Corporeal and Celestial, slightly favoring the flesh- the better to bit the Hell out of demons and inflict some real, lasting damage. :) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 08:59:26 +0000 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Renegade? What's that? Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 03:22:08 -0700 (PDT) From: W S Subject: Re: IN> Renegade? What's that? >I've heard that the Superiors in INS/MV were less >powerful... how so? :) It might resolve some of this >non-sense for me. In INS/MV (1) Celestials do not have Hearts, therefore they can't tracked by their Hearts. (2) There is the Great Game, rules of which are unknown to the player. Presumably there are certain rules which the Superiors cannot break (such as disruptive time travel, time travel is perfectly fine, so long as Earth's History isn't messed up) (3) Superiors -very very rarely- manifest on Earth in all their glory. Instead, the envoy Avatars who, while quite powerful, aren't Superiors and can be killed (though given their insane power, it's unlikely, some sample Power Point (Essence) pools: Varnay: 51 Jurassic-Mouth: 49 Lucien: 57 Pimprenelle: 52 And their stats are upper limit, where appropriate. - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________ Rejoignez le plus grand service de messagerie au monde avec MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2660 ********************************