in_nomine-digest Thursday, June 13 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2674 In this digest: Re: IN> Shamans PT1 Re: IN> Shamanism PT2 RE: IN> Worded Angel of War Re: IN> A new Minor Choir (Part 1 of 2) IN> Shamanism PT3 Wolf Eagle & Cat IN> RE: Techinal Difficulties Re: IN> Minor Interventions Re: IN> Shamans PT1 RE: IN> Shamans PT1 Re: IN> Shamanism PT2 Re: IN> Shamans PT1 Re: IN> Shamans PT1 Re: IN> Relic: Vitanda Necklace Re: IN> RE: Techinal Difficulties Re: IN> RE: Techinal Difficulties Re: IN> Yet more Undead RE: IN> Stones of David Re: IN> Stones of David Re: IN> Stones of David IN> Superior Victory: Reliquarium RE: IN> Relic: Vitanda Necklace RE: IN> Shamans PT1 RE: IN> Shamans PT1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 10:38:37 -0400 From: "Roger Williby" Subject: Re: IN> Shamans PT1 I think the best route is to have shamans be servitors of ambiguous ethereal spirits. The whole thing clashes when you try to involve angelic presence. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 14:40:28 +0000 From: "cassandra benner" Subject: Re: IN> Shamanism PT2 >This is an interesting concept. Thankyou. >But my question is: Why? *grins* Why does man climb the highest mountain? Why does man worship something he cannot see or experiance? Why do pairs of sucks suddenly become sinuglar when put in to a washing machine? *more seriously however..* Because no one else has on this matter. There is far to little stuff about jordi. And this is a shame, until the pint he gets a big old write up he will be misunderstood, misrepresnted, and used as -just the co warrior who hates humanity-. >Why bother >creating an entirely new catergory of character/Sorceror (as you seem to >be doing)? I like doing things like that. And Shamnism really doesnt exist in IN at the moment, whether it will once the EPG is fianly playtested and released is a different matter altogether. I write things that i would like to play, or that my players would like to play. >It makes more sense to me to simply call these guys/gals >Jordi's Soldiers, Soldiers-in-Training, and/or Saints. Yup, you can, or you can play them as Ethereal soldiers who get this powers (when they are presented on the list) from the etheral Totemic Spirits. Jordi can given >them all the special Songs he feels like in order to duplicate any powers >you had planned to describe for them. Which would then be doing exactly the same thing as im doing here but calling it another name, and making them work as normal soldiers. Shamsn are a srcerer type, just as the necromancer, or the alchemist are. They were totally missing from the In system, unless you have a player play a soldier of what ever totem, and say the songs they get are gifts from the totem/spirit. Perosnally i wouldnt want a leopard shaman tossing the song of light about, but to give them better reflexes, speed and sunnign senses is what a leopard has, these are things that the totemic icons would gift, not songs or attuntments. >In addition, I don't really see Jordi restricting his favor on basis of >geneology. He doesnt have to restrict it at all, but in my game this is how i';d run it, im just tossing out ideas hear, the fact that you have views on this matter means your thinking about it, and you might have ideas on how to run shamans in your game with your own rules, which is a good thing, after all, we play rpg's to have fun, and if we dont like the new edition of the rules released we stick to the rules edition we do like cos we have fun with it. "Yes, you truly understand animals, young human. You >understand their place in the Cycle, and yours. You have spent your life >promoting my Word and teaching others to do so as well. However, since >you are French, I can't reward you. You should have been born Navajo -- >think about that the next time you reincarnate." Just think of those souls who finally get to heaven, and when questioned at the gates they get all miffed cos they was born in the wrong country.. Just like joan of arc was born a girl instead of a boy, if she was a he perhaps history would be very different.. >Now, Jordi might be more >inclined to reward people from those cultures because of their history of >respecting animals, *nods* Exactly. >but I don't Jordi will turn away someone who really >exemplifies the behavior he wants all humans to follow. if they really exepmlify it they will pass the tests and stuff and become a shaman (or a soldier). I did mention in PT2 that he looks in to thier soul, to quote: "So how does he decide what totem animal to gift the powers of to the shaman to be? Well, resonating them with all of his available choir resonance s he figures out what animal they most connect with, then he takes in to account the physical qualities of the shaman" This is a very short way of saying he looks at them and thinks long and hard on what animal they truly connect with, and then allows that person to be closer to that animal (and thus god IMG), and gifts them with things that are associated with the common views on shamans and the catalogued powers of the said shamans (then you throw in the whole IN mechanics to get real powers that actually work, as opposed to poeple saying they met what ever totem in a dream). >Especially since there are so few of them. Yup, out of all the soldiers jorid has, i think that less than 5% would become a shaman, but thats just in my games. Its all well and good careing for animals and looking after them and freeing them from labs like the soldiers would, but to truly connect is what the Totemic Shaman is all about. >Ryan R. Thank you for your comments and feed back, they are much appreciated. Cas *Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be Evil.* In Nomine @ http://www.angelfire.com/goth/psyber/i-n.html In Nomine yahoo @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/inveritas ADnD forum @ http://www.drunkendwarfinn.co.uk ADnD stuff @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ADandD_Stuff _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 10:44:23 -0500 From: "Brook Freeman" Subject: RE: IN> Worded Angel of War > To take it a step further, a play could be written specifically for the > purpose of having multiple layers of actors acting liek actors who are in > another play and so on, just to generate all that additional essence. I'm > sure this wouldn't work, but wouldn't it be fun? It's called "Six Characters in Search of an Author" by Pirendello (sp?) When we did it the six 'characters' from an author's unfinished play when to a reporatory company doing live television (with real cameras on stage that were being projected onto screens at the back of the stage) and more cameras in the audience also being projected and THEN the local public broadcast channel came and shot that all for real live television broadcast (and the can repeats later). So that's what actors playing characters playing actors for a camera that is being filmed by a camera that is being filmed by another camera and being broad cast for what 8 times the essence? Brook Freeman ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 11:55:26 +0200 From: Mark Subject: Re: IN> A new Minor Choir (Part 1 of 2) Well I think they're too powerful for a minor choir!!! And... well I don't like them so much, 'cause they're not so original, they simply mimics the other choirs... Mark the Habbalah ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 16:37:21 +0000 From: "cassandra benner" Subject: IN> Shamanism PT3 Wolf Eagle & Cat (((This was 9.3k in note pad format, so its just borderline ok for size. If it does transpire that it comes out larger, then i appoligoes a great deal to the list and to Beth, boss of the list))) Ok, heres where the nitty gritty comes in. It's mechanics all the way here. I'll present it like I did the Sorcerous Souls stuff. Remember, these guys are Sorcerers, and as such, use their powers as rituals. Each culture calls on the power of the spirits in a different way, so make sure the player (and yourself as a gm) does a bit of research on the background of the culture the character comes from, and how they go about gaining the ritual powers. The default skill for the Shamanic powers is Knowledge: Totem. If you dont think this will work in your games then change it to Knowledge: Occult. Here are the first three totems for you to look over. In my time as an occultist these are the some of the more popular totems that people claim to have as a guide. It is not at all a comprehensive list, but it is a start. These will be the first 3 of nine that I post to the list. Others I will post directly to either the yahoo group, or to the web page with all the IN stuff that others and I have written. Wolf Traditionally seen as a hunter and a warrior, perceived as fierce, savage hunters, yet paradoxically they are seen as noble beasts. Those who are taken by wolf often become loners. Only happy amongst other wolves, for the pack is all that matters to them. Pack however in this sense can mean those that the character is closest to, be it family, other real wolves, or friends with whom the character spends a lot of time. Rituals of the Wolf 1: Sense of the Wolf With a successful roll the character gains +2 perception for CD hours. 2: Voice of the Wolf With a successful roll the character can converse with a pack of wolves. However, this does not mean they will automatically be friendly to him. The CD determines the amount of minutes the player can talk to them for before the ritual ends and he must cast it again if he needs to continue talking to the wolves. 3: Speed of the Wolf With a successful ritual roll, characters can double their speed for running for CD minutes. (Note: this can only be used once per hour, as the stress put on the heart can be dangerous) 4: Pride of the Wolf With a successful ritual roll check the character can make others feel humble and awed before them. This effect lasts for CD minutes. This can be halved if the person watching successfully makes a willpower roll. A successful resist against a CD of 1 means the effect has no use on the person watching the character/wolf and can act as normal. 5: Howl of the Wolf Effect 1 With a successful ritual roll the player lets out a loud howl, and instils fear in his enemies. The CD determines the effect on the victim. 1-2: The victim must succeed a will check or be mildly scared of approaching that character, or engaging in combat with them. Success means that the ritual has no effect on that particular victim. 3-4: The victim must succeed a willpower check or feel an over whelming compulsion to get away very fast. If they succeed they are treated as per CD1-2 (but having failed the willpower roll) 5-6: If the victim fails a willpower roll, they will be frozen to the spot (for corporeal forces of the shaman seconds X2. Once that time has passed, they will be considered as per CD 3-4 (only having failed the will roll) If they succeed then they are considered as per CD 3-4. Effect 2 This will allow the shaman to call CD wolves to him from the surrounding area, however he must still use Voice of the Wolf to communicate with them. 6: Form of the Wolf The Shaman has finally mastered the full range of the Wolf Rituals and can now bodily change in to the form of a wolf. This is considered as a Vessel level equal to the CD of the ritual roll for the determination of Body Points They gain all the attributes of a wolf, including +2 to perception. Whilst in this form they gain +3 to the CD of any other Wolf Rituals they perform. The ritual will only last for up to Corporeal Forces in hours, but it may be ended voluntarily. Eagle Highest flying of all other birds, no living thing is closer to the heavens. With a great hatred of evil and a great mistrust of technology the Eagle shaman is one of the greatest advocates of returning back to a green way of life. Those who find they have angered an Eagle shaman will find they are subjected to gorilla style tactics, and a great deal of loss of face in the publics eye. Rituals of the Eagle 1: Sight of the Eagle The characters perception doubles for CD minutes. This is only for sight based perception rolls however. As a side note, no eagle shaman has bad vision; they never need to wear glasses or contact lenses. This ritual cannot be used in conjunction with any kind of vision enhancing tool, such as binoculars, low light goggles or periscopes. 2: Voice of the Eagle The shaman can communicate with other eagles by talking to them, but must make a successful ritual roll to ascertain a CD. The CD determines the amount time (10 minutes per CD rating) the shaman can communicate with eagles. This does not ensure that the eagles will pay any attention to him, only that he can talk to them, to be understood by them and understand when they respond. 3: Call of the eagle With a piercing shriek the shaman can call out to all the eagles in the area to come to him. However, not all of them may do so, after all eagles are for the most part solitary creatures. The amount of eagles is determined by the shamans corporeal + the CD of the ritual roll. The shaman will still need to use Voice of the Eagle to communicate with them however. 4: Cry of the Eagle With a shriek the shaman echoes his voice from place to place, causing the victim of the ritual to become confused for CD rounds as he looks around for source of the noise. Successful perception checks will half this time. 5: Journey of the Eagle To use this ritual the Shaman must have the Lucid Dreaming skill at at least level 5. They enter a trance that lasts for up to 8 -CD hours. Whilst in this trance they can commune to the Totem Spirit of the Eagle. In other words, the call out to Jordi, or an angel of jordi to come and help them. The shaman can ask for information, for corporeal help or for healing. The information is answered by an enigmatic Vision, which the shaman must then decipher for himself. If they ask for healing they may be healed via a song, or be pointed out to an area where healing herbs and plants grow, allowing them to heal them selves. If they ask for more corporeal help, an angel might be spared to help out, otherwise a reliever in the vessel (level equal to the CD) of an eagle will be sent. 6: Flight of the Eagle The shaman is able to take on the form of an eagle, gaining all the attributes that are associated with an eagle. They gain +3 to perception, the ability to fly, and are able to talk to other eagles freely. The ritual will only last for up to Corporeal Forces in hours, it may be ended voluntarily however. Whilst in this form they gain +3 to the CD of any other Eagle Rituals they perform. Cat (Domestic) The most accepted animal in the world, considered by some to be a god, or the children of the gods. Yet by others it is considered to be a cruel killer, toying with its catch. A vain and critical creature, which has a penchant for curiosity. Rituals of the Cat 1: Grace of the Cat With a successful ritual roll the shaman gain a bonus +2 to his Precision and Agility for CD minutes. As a side note, falling damage is automatically halved, and of the shaman makes a successful agility check, they tae only 1 point of damage from the fall, managing to land safely. The height that a cat shaman can fall safely from is equal to his total Forces multiplied by his Corporeal forces in yards (or meters), anything over this amount means that half damage is taken if the shaman makes a successful agility check, if they fail they take the normal full amount. 2: Voice of the Cat The shaman can talk to a number of cats equal to his Ethereal forces. They will understand what the shaman says, and when they respond he will be able to understand them in return. This effect only lasts for CD minutes. 3: Claws if the Cat The nails on the shamans hands harden and deal an additional CD wounds for the next attack. For all successive attacks it is at -1 per round, until the effect wears off. As a side note, the nails of the cat shaman never chip or break. They remain in good condition at all times. 4: Hiss of the Cat When entering combat the shaman can make his opponent think twice about attacking. With a successful ritual roll the shaman can force the enemy make a willpower roll, minus the CD of the ritual roll, or turn and flee the cat shaman. This effect will only work on one opponent at a time however. 5: Walk of the Cat With a successful ritual roll the shaman has the ability to climb vertical walls equal to CD times his own height with no modifiers. They need no special equipment to do this, but a running start will provide them with +2 agility to add to the climb roll. A failed agility roll means that the shaman nearly makes it, but lands safely providing the height fallen from is no more than double the amount provided by the Grace of the Cat ritual. 6: Form of the Cat The shaman, may with a successful ritual roll, take the form of any domesticated cat. When the do so, they gain +2 Precision, +3 Agility and any other abilities associated with cats. They gain a +2 to all CD's when using other Cat rituals whilst in this form. Cas *Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be Evil.* In Nomine @ http://www.angelfire.com/goth/psyber/i-n.html In Nomine yahoo @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/inveritas ADnD forum @ http://www.drunkendwarfinn.co.uk ADnD stuff @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ADandD_Stuff _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 17:30:09 -0400 From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" Subject: IN> RE: Techinal Difficulties > For the record, I didn't send this out again. > I don't know why I got this twice, but I have noticed over the past month > of so that I occasionally get duplicate copies of posts that were sent out > a day or so prior. Is there something wrong with the list server, Beth? I've been getting them too, but thought it was a Hotmail thing. I've also noticed that I will get responses to a thread before I get the initial post much later in the day, or the day after. So far this has not happened to the same person twice in a row, as far as I can tell. - -- Casca And here I thought it was just the Navy e-mail messing my stuff up again. My problems with doubled e-mails or shuffled arrivals is due to the various holding registers that the Navy has to use while my ship does not have a direct satillite link. It's a first in last out buffer, so something that has been held for a day waits while something that was held just for a few hours goes out first. I dunno if the same applies to Hotmail. DS1 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 13:18:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Minor Interventions IIRC, the playtest rules for IN included 333 as an Ethereal Intervention. It was removed in the final version, no doubt because of the greatly reduced power of Etherereals. I reinstated IMC with two stipulations 1) Ethereal gods can only intervene in the Far Marches, and the exact form of the Intervention depends on which Pantheon's realm is closest; 2) A 333 in a Dreamscape represents intervention by the subconscious mind of the _dreamer_, which effectively has Superior-level power within those confines. ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 "Be aware that most people are operating on a highly condensed version of the 10 Commandments... the part about murder." -- Mark Bricklin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 10:26:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Shamans PT1 - --- cassandra benner wrote: > Totemism is used inconjunction with the worship of the > Great Earth Mother. In Europe, maybe. Not in most of Africa and definitely not in Australia or Polynesia. > The totemic shaman (as represented here) knows that there > is an over arching > power to the universe, and that the animals are the way > for him to > understand the power on a more personal level. On this we agree. The animal is symbolic natural forces and universal principles. This is the basis of totemic belief (not necessarily totemic magic; in some tribes, all members had totems, not just the shaman). ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 "Be aware that most people are operating on a highly condensed version of the 10 Commandments... the part about murder." -- Mark Bricklin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 10:28:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: RE: IN> Shamans PT1 - --- cassandra benner wrote: > *nods* sounds good, mind if i throw this in to the final > errated version ? Notatall. :) ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 "Be aware that most people are operating on a highly condensed version of the 10 Commandments... the part about murder." -- Mark Bricklin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 10:34:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Shamanism PT2 - --- cassandra benner wrote: > Those three are the most common in western society, and > they are the first 3 of many that i will write up. [snip] > Unless SJG makes a more comprehensive book about the > different faiths and > things for IN and how they interact in the presented main > rule book presentation of the game. > (ie not overly fluffy & not all dark and gothique and > tortured) I understand. I recall having commented once on the tendency toward eurocentrism in the gaming industry (and I distinctly remember that some list members weren't at all happy about it...). Fortunately, gaming sources aren't the only ones out there. There's a really good site that was posted to the list once before (www.religioustolerance.org, if I've got the URL right) that has all sorts of great info on various belief systems. I recommend it as a resource for any IN GM. ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 "Be aware that most people are operating on a highly condensed version of the 10 Commandments... the part about murder." -- Mark Bricklin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 10:39:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Shamans PT1 - --- Roger Williby wrote: > I think the best route is to have shamans be servitors of > ambiguous ethereal > spirits. The whole thing clashes when you try to involve > angelic presence. Not necessarily. Jordi, David and Novalis are the only AA's I can see participating in it (well, maybe Eli -- but who knows what sort of totems he'd come up with), but a Shaman could be an effective variant of a White Sorcerer. The flipside is that Shamans can also be Hellsworn. For example, Hawaii has two "flavors" of kahuna; the kahuna lapa'au (who is mainly a healer) and the kahuna ana-ana (who works through spells and curses). The latter doesn't work as servant of Heaven. ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 "Be aware that most people are operating on a highly condensed version of the 10 Commandments... the part about murder." -- Mark Bricklin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 18:46:22 +0000 From: "cassandra benner" Subject: Re: IN> Shamans PT1 >From: Michael Walton >--- cassandra benner wrote: > > Totemism is used inconjunction with the worship of the > > Great Earth Mother. > > In Europe, maybe. Not in most of Africa and definitely >not in Australia or Polynesia. Its the common view of totemism in general. Which is sadly the bulk fault of the fluffy modernisation of the american indian tradition in to western society. > On this we agree. The animal is symbolic natural forces >and universal principles. This is the basis of totemic >belief (not necessarily totemic magic; *nods* However, the belief part would spawn the Ethereal Totem Spirits i think. With Jordi keeping a watchfull eye are few on it he could steer it so that the Great Oneness gets the essence generated from a good amountof any totemic practices. >in some tribes, all >members had totems, not just the shaman). *smile* This is something i'll be covering on the webpage, and on the yahoo group, seeing as we dont want this list to be to overly killed by totemic talks.. Til then i'll cheerfully respond to the posts that come in as i get them if im online at the time. The next Major part fo the totemic stuff will com in about 8 hours. Im keeping 8 to 12 hours inbetween the major posts, so it allows folks to respond to other things and post stuff still on other topics with out the totemic stuff becoming to much in the mail box for them. This is inkeeping of the List Guidelines i think. Cas *Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be Evil.* In Nomine @ http://www.angelfire.com/goth/psyber/i-n.html In Nomine yahoo @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/inveritas ADnD forum @ http://www.drunkendwarfinn.co.uk ADnD stuff @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ADandD_Stuff _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 15:40:23 -0400 From: "S.D." Subject: Re: IN> Relic: Vitanda Necklace > I can't see Heaven using these; an Artifact that can >cause innocent angels to Fall just for associating with an >Outcast doesn't really strike me as serving Heaven's cause. > I know, the point is to get them to go away before the >real Dissonance shows up -- but there are reasons for not >doing that. I know, but as I said, part of the point was to reflect the practice of vitanda - excommunication of *anyone* who associates with the wearer. I was thinking of making part of the effect 'impossible to switch sides while carrying vitanda dissonance'... > Especially if one serves an Archangel who uses >Outcasts for covert ops. At the very least, these things >would be another sticking point between Michael and Dominic. Oh, definitely. Like I said, the Divine ones work best for Bal (or Dark/Backwards) Dominic. ~S.D. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 15:43:40 -0400 From: "S.D." Subject: Re: IN> RE: Techinal Difficulties The copies are getting really bad now. Maybe half my last group of messages from the ML were repeats from a day or so ago, and I've gotten five copies of several different ones now. Does anyone know what's going on with the server? ~S.D. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 16:07:24 -0400 From: "Roger Williby" Subject: Re: IN> RE: Techinal Difficulties I'm with you on that. Most of the messages I am getting are all things I've seen two, three, or four times before. This seems to have a cumulative effect and is getting worse. I don't know what kind of issue would cause this error but I hope that they fix it soon. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 16:38:37 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Yet more Undead At 10:11 PM -0700 6/7/02, Maurice Lane wrote: [...] >You see, while individual sprigs of >Vampire Ivy may not be so tough, nobody ever >encounters just one sprig. These buggers usually hunt >in packs of about, say, twenty or so. > >That tends to change the tactical situation a bit. As the angel poured the gasoline over her head and lit a match, she muttered, "Sometimes, it's REAL good to be an Ofanite of Fire..." *FOOOMP* "Shame about the shirt, though." (*hee hee hee* Moe, that's twisted. So, what does Friend of the Gardeners do to these things? Crown of Joy?) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 17:46:58 -0400 From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" Subject: RE: IN> Stones of David - -----Original Message----- From: Maurice Lane [mailto:moelane_1999@yahoo.com] - --- "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" wrote: > > "You've got the Stones of David" > > This might refer to the little David > that slew Goliath, Being a refined individual who _NEVER_ goes for jokes that involve male sexual organs, I will of course refrain from pointing out that the above sentence can be taken in a completely ribald (dare I say, kinky?) way...* Moe I've never quibbled, if it was ribald. I would devour where others merely nibbled. As the Judge remarked the day that he aquited my Aunt Hortence To be smut it must be ut - terly without redeeming social importance. "Smut" Tom Leher Who surely was possesed by a Shedite of Andy's when he wrote it. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 17:04:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Stones of David - --- Amanda Kilgore wrote: > Or aren't you ready to tell the list about your > little > campaign? There is nothing little about my campa... Umm, never mind.* Moe *Actually, I'm still looking for a free minute or twenty to write it all out... ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/13/02(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 22:20:50 +0000 From: "James Bacon" Subject: Re: IN> Stones of David How do I get taken off this list? Beware he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 05:53:51 -0700 (PDT) From: W S Subject: IN> Superior Victory: Reliquarium It had seemed like such a good idea at the time. Joriel, the Power of Creation, couldn't quite understand where it had broken down. But it was undeniable now- the Symphony was getting quieter, unable to take the strain. And Reliquarium was only getting larger. What had been intended as a simple way of rapidly recharging the Host with the vital energy of Creation was simply taking over. Several years ago, there was an Elohim of Creation. With Eli on hiatus, he was free to persue his own efforts. And, in this case, those efforts were a bit ecclectic and wide reaching. He would resolve the constant power crisis that afflicted angels on Earth. With the Elohim's special gift for crafting reliquaries, it shouldn't be that hard. A year into that impossible job, he could actually feel himself getting frustrated. This would take forever. And there was so little return on the Essence he used versus got for the first long while. Although the first few reliquaries he'd crafted had sped that problem up. But even so... He took a break to contemplate the problem. And when the solution hit, it was so obvious. He would make a new reliquary, imbued with his own gift for making reliquaries. This one would make three more, with it's own Essence. Thesse three would make three more- etc, etc. Soon, they would be producing so much Essence that the Archangels could freely offer a new Rite (breathing, usable an unlimited number of times daily) to the entire Host. And to ensure that Hell would never manage a dangerous gamble to rid Heaven of the new tool, it should be unbreakable, ever. Visions of being granted a Word for his efforts danced through Joriel's head at the prospect of providing such a tool for the Host. A year later, he had to wonder. Where had it gone so wrong. Reliquarium functioned exactly as he'd intended. The only thing was, he'd never really wondered where Essence came from. And had never considered there might be a finite supply. New members to Reliquarium were appearing ever microsecond. Unbreakable artifacts, there was nothing to be done now but wait, wait for the eternal rest. - --- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 11:50:07 -0400 From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" Subject: RE: IN> Relic: Vitanda Necklace - -----Original Message----- From: S.D. [mailto:dragon48@mail.ptd.net] Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 6:57 AM To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Subject: RE: IN> Relic: Vitanda Necklace >My question is why? Are servitors of Judgment/The Game supposed to trick >Outcaste's into wearing these things? Do vitanda get handed out to >angels/demons that are suspected of being close to tripping/going renegade? >"Put this on or else! Refusal is dissonant! Trust the computer!" No. These are for angels/demons who were *sentenced* to banishment. The whole thing is supposed to be for those deemed too dangerous to other angels/demons but also too dangerous to simply Outcast/whatever-the-Infernal-is-'cause-Renegade-doesn't-work. It also kind of reflects my opinion of excommunication *and* deliberate Outcasting - what's the point when the net effect is to put the person beyond the Church/Heaven/Hell's reach permanently? The necklaces do that as strongly as possible, but at least they let Judgment/the Game *track* the wearer for future note. It also works very very well with BalDominic. };-) ~S.D. Ryukage *** I thought both Dominic and Asmodeous hated Outcasts and Renegades and sought to destroy them? I could see other Superiors that might consider Outcasting as a punishment, but not Dominic. Asmodeous might if he had some plot ongoing, to catch other offenders, but I really don't see Judgement being a fan of this. DS1 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 16:04:33 -0400 From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" Subject: RE: IN> Shamans PT1 - -----Original Message----- From: cassandra benner [mailto:casiopia@hotmail.com] >Why would the culture of a different continent call to someone who >is third or fourth generation Irish? >From all the sites online about -traditional- irish craft, youd think that the americans invented it... Bearing inmind thatwhat we know and do these days is not really what it was like in the old days, even the order of bars ovates and druids say this. They happiliy admit that they do not at all represent what the druids once were. We only have very fragmentary evidence of what the various tribes and clans do. Much of it was written by the people they were opposed by as well, so it is with a strange respect/contempt, and the writting of it is very skewed. *** What has American's love of all things Celtic have to do with my question? What does history's treatment of the Druids have to do with my question? If a third generation-born-in-Ireland black person felt the spiritual call to find harmony with nature and man, why would he have to do it in the style/rituals of Africa? I have met black people who were born and raised in England, I don't think it's a big stretch of imagination to say there are some in Ireland too. And sure, it is quiet possible that they respect their African heritage and might feel the call of nature in the form of African styled totems. But why does it HAVE to be that way? Why is it limited in that fashion? Why does a person's skin color matter to Jordi, when he sees mankind as nothing but a bunch of hairless apes? Does Jordi hold human style prejudices? Or does he think that humans should be classified as different species according to their skin color? I fully understand that MOST shamans will be called to be such because they have grown up in a culture which still respects their ancient past, and is still closely tied to their native culture, but all tribes had methods for adopting new members and in a world as mixed as ours a person could very easily identify more strongly with the people he grew up with than with people on a continent that he has never visited and knows nothing about. Why should the type/style/totem of Jordi that calls to a person be a matter of their genetics? Should it not instead be a matter of their soul? Or are you saying black people have different souls? DS1 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 16:27:38 -0400 From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" Subject: RE: IN> Shamans PT1 - -----Original Message----- From: cassandra benner [mailto:casiopia@hotmail.com] >>Archangels are the ones who set the limits on who and how their servitors >>are limited. >Yup, exactly. >Not as if every angel has access to every resonance is it... >See what im getting at here? No. I don't. And I don't think you understood my question. Jordi's only limits on what he can do for his servants are only those limits Jordi chooses to allow. But that's not the point; when discussing attunements/resonances/gifts/songs/whatever that JORDI himself is creating, then Jordi can give it to a hamster if he wants. So a human's bloodline/great-grand parents/genetics should in no way limit that which Jordi wants to do. I could also debate that every Archangel does have access to ever resonance, so long as he is willing to bargain with another Archangel, but that should be a different topic. >>Jordi only allowing a person of a particular bloodline to be >>his servants seems to be a severe limitation. >Its not him limiting it, but the persons own beliefs. This is MY key point. If a person has beliefs that lead him to a spiritual decision, then it should be THOSE beliefs that guide how it manifests. Sure, an Archangel could force a person to accept a mantel which did not fit with their belief structure, but that would be just begging for them to screw up. So IF a person wished to follow the path of Celtic spirit, or of Amerindian spirit, or African spirit, AND that person had a true calling for it, studied it, was raised within the bounds of the correct culture; WHY should they be forced to the yoke of a different cultural belief system simply because they were born a particular skin color? >England as a countries really hasn't had non white people in it for very long, >it was only with the wars that there was an influx of African and Caribbean >families, as well as the Indian families. >Whilst our culture has merged some what with theirs we still do view them >with fear, restraint and suspicion. I would hope that archangels were above such prejudicial sentiments. DS1 ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2674 ********************************