in_nomine-digest Tuesday, June 18 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2678 In this digest: Re: IN> Mr Pumpkinhead RE: IN> Mr Pumpkinhead Re: IN> Mr Pumpkinhead Re: IN> Yet more Undead Re: IN> Yet more Undead Re: IN> Confused about de Marches. Re: IN> Yet more Undead Re: IN> Shamanism PT3 Wolf Eagle & Cat RE: IN> Relic: Vitanda Necklace Re: IN> Shamans PT1 IN> Jumping Malakim... (Re: Shamanism: Limits set) Re: IN> Dominic's Kitten Re: IN> Shamanism: Limits set Re: IN> fan material IN> [ADMIN] Check for HTML! Re: IN> Jumping Malakim... (Re: Shamanism: Limits set) IN> Ethnic backgrounds of Archangels? Re: IN> Shamanism: Limits set Re: IN> Jumping Malakim... (Re: Shamanism: Limits set) Re: IN> Ethnic backgrounds of Archangels? Re: IN> Jumping Malakim... (Re: Shamanism: Limits set) Re: IN> Ethnic backgrounds of Archangels? RE: IN> Relic: Vitanda Necklace Re: IN> Jumping Malakim... (Re: Shamanism: Limits set) Re: IN> Ethnic backgrounds of Archangels? Re: IN> Dogma (mild spoilers) Re: IN> Ethnic backgrounds of Archangels? Re: IN> Ethnic backgrounds of Archangels? Re: IN> Ethnic backgrounds of Archangels? Re: IN> Ethnic backgrounds of Archangels? Re: IN> Ethnic backgrounds of Archangels? Re: IN> Jumping Malakim... (Re: Shamanism: Limits set) Re: IN> Ethnic backgrounds of Archangels? Re: IN> Ethnic backgrounds of Archangels? IN> Ethnic backgrounds of Demon Princes(s's)? Re: IN> Ethnic backgrounds of Demon Princes(s's)? IN> Mr Pumpkinhead Re: IN> Ethnic backgrounds of Demon Princes(s's)? Re: IN> Ethnic backgrounds of Demon Princes(s's)? Re: IN> Ethnic backgrounds of Archangels? Re: IN> Ethnic backgrounds of Archangels? Re: IN> Ethnic backgrounds of Archangels? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 11:35:10 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Mr Pumpkinhead G N E Z D A wrote: > I was informed by someone on Brass and Steel mush that > there was a character with a pumpkin for a head in a Lewis Carroll > story? I don't think so, but "Jack Pumpkinhead" is a recurring character in the Oz books, created in volume 2 by Ozma. He may be the inspiration for Marvin, the pumpkin-headed handyman of the Dreaming in Neil Gaiman's "Sandman" series. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 11:38:46 -0400 From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" Subject: RE: IN> Mr Pumpkinhead This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C21615.11540B00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" - -----Original Message----- From: G N E Z D A [mailto:gnezda@netadvantage.com.au] Hmm... okay, how's about this addition to the Clay artifact... I was thinking of giving him a pumpkin for a head and hair made out of steel wool. I was informed by someone on Brass and Steel mush that there was a character with a pumpkin for a head in a Lewis Carroll story? **** I can't say if Lewis Carroll did or not, but the Oz series has a character called "Jack Pumpkinhead" that is in every book after the second and is almost exactly like your proposed description. DS1 - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C21615.11540B00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" -----Original Message----- From: G N E Z D A [mailto:gnezda@netadvantage.com.au] Hmm... okay, how's about this addition to the Clay artifact... I was thinking of giving him a pumpkin for a head and hair made out of steel wool. I was informed by someone on Brass and Steel mush that there was a character with a pumpkin for a head in a Lewis Carroll story? **** I can't say if Lewis Carroll did or not, but the Oz series has a character called "Jack Pumpkinhead" that is in every book after the second and is almost exactly like your proposed description. DS1 - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C21615.11540B00-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 11:50:39 -0400 From: Robb Kidd Subject: Re: IN> Mr Pumpkinhead * Earl Wajenberg (earlw@mc.com) wrote: > I don't think so, but "Jack Pumpkinhead" is a recurring character > in the Oz books, created in volume 2 by Ozma. He may be the > inspiration for Marvin, the pumpkin-headed handyman of the Dreaming > in Neil Gaiman's "Sandman" series. Merv Pumpkinhead - Agent of D.R.E.A.M. (A Sandman spin-off by Bill Willingham. Quite humorous.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 15:43:44 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Yet more Undead At 8:02 PM -0400 6/12/02, Eric Bertish wrote: >> This is when you spend lots of Essence to make your >> Will roll? (You could always try a Song of Possession > >One thing you must know about Moe is that dice hate him. Especially if it >has to do with combat. > >And he doesn't *have* the Song of Possession. And Invictus won't have it, >either, unless he can give me a damn good explanation why it isn't ignoble. Take over demon vessels. Remove them from their demon friends. Release them in a Heavenly Tether. This way they are able to make the decision to redeem unfettered by the fear that their demonic associates will betray them. Besides, said demonic associates _already_ saw Joe Demon walking into a Heaven Tether, apparently without coercian. So now all the waiting for them to think Joe Demon is a traitor has been gotten over with. It's a kindness to the poor things. Really. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 15:40:45 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Yet more Undead At 4:51 PM -0400 6/12/02, Eric Bertish wrote: >> I hope you know that the idea of MOE running a Malakite of the Sword >> makes my brain ache... > >Actually, it's not that far of a leap. Look at his Laurence fiction and >you'll see he has a good take on it. > >Except when he's being exceptionally silly or ridiculously munchkin. *laugh* Yes, but the thought that he could contain himself from either of those, for long periods of time... I mean, I'd think he'd explode! O;> >> Are you going to be at the next Arisia? O:> > >Doubt it, unless someone pays my way. I'm trying to save up for one of those >"once per lifetime" expenses. >Now, if there are any cons in the DC/Richmond/Baltimore area, I'll try to be >there. ;) Hey, Boston isn't _that_ far away, right? O;> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 15:46:57 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Confused about de Marches. At 5:44 PM -0700 6/12/02, W S wrote: >A) In the Marches, is there an ethereal and celestial >form? I remember there not being such. Given that, >what demarks ethereal from celestial combat? No ethereal form. Yes celestial form sort of. What demarks it is, well, what kind of hits are being dealt out. Sure, someone could be trying ethereal combat while the other is dishing out soul hits... Might be a good idea, if you're better at ethereal combat -- if you do enough Mind hits, the blighter goes unconscious. >B) Can or can not those in the Marches enter >Dreamscapes? Can Dreamscapes be impacted in any way >by those in the Marches? Use Songs of Dreams or Dreamwalking or the innate abilities of ethereals. >B2) If not (as I recall), then why does >Dream/Nightmare patrol the Marches? Because they have the Songs of Dreams and Dreamwalking. >C) Can a celestial enter Heaven or Hell while Dreaming >on Earth? Yes. >If so, what happens? Their vessel just >remains asleep while they meander about their homes? Yes. If they want their vessels, they can make another Will roll -- this is in Superiors 3. >If not, how are Dreamers and Fears supposed to get >home without taking dissonance? Tethers are also okay to go celestial in. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 15:45:09 -0400 From: "ebertish" Subject: Re: IN> Yet more Undead > *laugh* Yes, but the thought that he could contain himself from > either of those, for long periods of time... I mean, I'd think he'd > explode! O;> Sometimes he does. However, he tries to get it out of his system with pre-game smack talk. It's become almost ritualistic. Plus, he gets to be a demented GM the day before, so that helps too. - -- Casca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 16:01:00 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Shamanism PT3 Wolf Eagle & Cat At 4:37 PM +0000 6/13/02, cassandra benner wrote: >(((This was 9.3k in note pad format, so its just borderline ok for size. If >it does transpire that it comes out larger, then i appoligoes a great deal >to the list and to Beth, boss of the list))) Coming in at 12K. FYI. - --Beth, List Admin http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/listrules.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 15:51:59 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: RE: IN> Relic: Vitanda Necklace At 6:57 AM -0400 6/13/02, S.D. wrote: > > >>My question is why? Are servitors of Judgment/The Game supposed to trick >>Outcaste's into wearing these things? [...] > >No. These are for angels/demons who were *sentenced* to banishment. For angels, I can see this. For demons? Er, well, my view of the canonical Asmodeus (i.e., if your game thinks otherwise, GO WITH IT! KICK THE CANON!) is that he'd rather have a Renegade in hand, being tortured for the cameras and providing an Example of Why Treason To Hell Is Bad. Not exiled. So while he might want to trace Renegades, this would require a Djinn, not a relic. Now, equipping a Shedite with something like this, only conealable, and then going in to 'frame' demons with Dissonance... That's Gamestery. And, of course, if _Lucifer_ decreed that someone should be "exiled from Hell," Azzie'd like something like that. But, er, that's a campaign plot, not an everyday thing. Mmmm, plot! O:> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 16:06:43 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Shamans PT1 At 6:46 PM +0000 6/13/02, cassandra benner wrote: >Im keeping 8 to 12 hours inbetween the major posts, so it allows folks to >respond to other things and post stuff still on other topics with out the >totemic stuff becoming to much in the mail box for them. >This is inkeeping of the List Guidelines i think. Sorry, it's not. 24 hours would be in keeping with the list guidelines. If in doubt, or often even if not in doubt, it's always a good idea to re-read them, too. - --Beth, List Admin http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/listrules.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 16:12:47 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Jumping Malakim... (Re: Shamanism: Limits set) At 4:46 AM -0700 6/14/02, W S wrote: >Who just had another awful idea. Dark Malakim are >insane, Discord wracked monsters... and they can't >Fall... but what if a Malakim were to try and Jump? This may well be one reason why Malakim are SO strict about policing themselves... Don't be a dissonant Malakite at the Eighth Virtue. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 16:24:24 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Dominic's Kitten At 11:14 AM -0400 6/14/02, Roger Williby wrote: >Is Dominic's kitten canon? And what is its name? I have seen three or four >different stories mentioning the kitten and each calls it by a different >name. Can I get a final word on this? All cats have at least three names... Have you not read T.S. Eliot? O:> (And, as noted, no -- non canon kitty. It's one of those List things.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 16:29:40 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Shamanism: Limits set At 6:33 PM -0500 6/14/02, Gregg Forge wrote: >> > But hey, why isnt there a black AA? >> >> Because my version of Raziel isn't canon. 0;> >> > If you get a chance, e-mail me. In a fit of almost >Kobal-worthy snideity, I took a moment to cast up a >snarkishly quasi-tasteless IN da Hood, a la Keenan [...] Just remember, no casting calls on the list. Off-list, and a URL to pictures of the casted ones, that's one thing. (Make sure they're not pictures which you don't have permission to use, please... Heck, a page that has URLs linking to official-type pictures would do, if needed.) But casting calls are a forbidden topic. (That said, I wanna see a URL sometime!) - --Beth, List Admin http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/listrules.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 16:37:03 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> fan material At 5:01 AM +0000 6/17/02, Perry Lloyd wrote: >I really liked the Liber Servitorum, if I'm not mistaken, much of that book >came from us fans (myself included). Yup. Look at the back of the book and count the authors. Woo. >Did the book do well? I haven't heard any figures for, er, a while now. Since I'm not being leaned on to do another, I presume it didn't sell out its print run in six months or less... >If so, if there any potential, and this is directed more at the higher ups >here, for other fan-driven/created books? I doubt that there's going to be one of those in the near future. >maybe like: >* complete adventures, not necessarily connected Pyramid Magazine. >* alternate timelines/histories/and write-ups for the 'dead' Superiors Alternate ones? Erm, I dunno -- the INC? >* plot/adventures hooks by Superior (one book for Angels, one for Demons), >maybe like secret organizations and the like, not unlike those in the >Superiors books, but all together so that there's something for everyone. INC... >* fan art? INC. There's even a section... O:> >Hell, I'd pay $25 for a copy of Dark Victory complemented with art (for >instance). Sure, I could stuff about it free on-line, just like I can get a >lot of stuff free on-line, but there's nothing quite like holding a book in >your hand with inspiring art-work to boot. If you and 3,000 other people would do that, then there would likely be a Dark Victory book. Deposit to my paypal account and I'll see that the money is held in trust till the book appears. O:> 48 pager, say? Or has it gotten to the 128 page stage? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 16:40:53 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> [ADMIN] Check for HTML! Once again, a reminder to read the listrules. HTML is forbidden on the list. Please turn off all HTML. Turn on anything that will tell you you're posting HTML and give you a second chance to turn it off again. Make sure you are not replying to someone who has posted in HTML. Thank you. - --Beth, List Admin http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/listrules.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 16:37:22 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Jumping Malakim... (Re: Shamanism: Limits set) > This may well be one reason why Malakim are SO strict > about policing themselves... Don't be a dissonant Malakite > at the Eighth Virtue. Don't be a dissonant ANYTHING at the 8th Virtue. Unless you LIKE being thought of as a party favor.... - -- Casca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 20:52:14 +0000 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> Ethnic backgrounds of Archangels? >At 6:33 PM -0500 6/14/02, Gregg Forge wrote: > >> > But hey, why isnt there a black AA? 1. Isn't that a meaningless concept to an angel (let alone an Archangel)? When in celestial form, they a) don't even have a *human* shape, let alone human gender or race, except for Mercurians (see below). When in vessel shape, they can look like anything they want. 2. Eli's picture in the main rule book is a black male, but that just means that Eli's most recent earthly vessel was a black male, because that's what Mercurians do. 3. I did, however, notice that although it plainly says in Superiors 1 that David has a favorite vessel with "African" features, the pictures in both the main rule book and in Superiors 1 do not show any such thing. Janet Anderson _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 15:52:23 -0500 From: "Gregg Forge" Subject: Re: IN> Shamanism: Limits set >At 6:33 PM -0500 6/14/02, Gregg Forge wrote: > >> > But hey, why isnt there a black AA? > >> > >> Because my version of Raziel isn't canon. 0;> > >> > > If you get a chance, e-mail me. In a fit of almost > >Kobal-worthy snideity, I took a moment to cast up a > >snarkishly quasi-tasteless IN da Hood, a la Keenan >[...] > >Just remember, no casting calls on the list. Off-list, and a >URL to pictures of the casted ones, that's one thing. (Make sure >they're not pictures which you don't have permission to use, >please... Heck, a page that has URLs linking to official-type >pictures would do, if needed.) Ah did. Why do ya think it isn't showin' up here? ;P Of course, there's been a number of people who did ask, and they gets to see it. (^_^) > >But casting calls are a forbidden topic. > Mentioning them, or their existance, fortunately, skirts that issue nicely. And I'm still working on IN de Barrio, next... > > > >(That said, I wanna see a URL sometime!) I'll mail it to ya, just like everyone else. Unless I really go on an Real Life People As References Drawing Binge. > Kamika-Z, just three steps shy of breakin' de laws...;) _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 21:58:49 +0100 From: "Merior" Subject: Re: IN> Jumping Malakim... (Re: Shamanism: Limits set) Eric Bertish wrote: > > This may well be one reason why Malakim are SO strict > > about policing themselves... Don't be a dissonant Malakite > > at the Eighth Virtue. > > Don't be a dissonant ANYTHING at the 8th Virtue. > > Unless you LIKE being thought of as a party favor.... > I don't know, I would have thought that a Dissonant and wishing to Redeem demon who stumbled into the 8th Virtue would have a great time. Especially in comparison to the Game Renegade hunting squad who follow you in there... - - Richard Drysdale (merior@talk21.com) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 16:07:15 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Ethnic backgrounds of Archangels? Janet Anderson wrote: > 1. Isn't that a meaningless concept to an angel (let alone an > Archangel)? When in celestial form, they a) don't even have a *human* > shape, let alone human gender or race, except for Mercurians (see > below). When in vessel shape, they can look like anything they want. Yeah, but the point is that they've been portrayed, and thus most everyone has a mental image, of them all being white. Even that horrible picture of Dominic without his hood in one of the books shows him as a white guy. I'm the last person to endorse Political Correctness, but it is rather glaring that every single illustration for these nearly omnipotent beings who are supposed to transcend ethnicity, shows them as white. > 2. Eli's picture in the main rule book is a black male, but that just > means that Eli's most recent earthly vessel was a black male, because > that's what Mercurians do. Actually, his picture in the main rule book looks to me like a white guy with dreadlocks. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 17:22:18 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Jumping Malakim... (Re: Shamanism: Limits set) At 4:37 PM -0400 6/17/02, Eric Bertish wrote: [beth wrote] >> Don't be a dissonant Malakite >> at the Eighth Virtue. > >Don't be a dissonant ANYTHING at the 8th Virtue. > >Unless you LIKE being thought of as a party favor.... A very dissonant Shedite, begging for redemption, would probably be okay! O:> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 17:27:01 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Ethnic backgrounds of Archangels? If it amuses, I already had it on my mind before this thread showed up, due to another thread elsewhere, that when the time came to ask for a splashpage for Novalis, she should be portrayed as a black woman. Because, well, I can _see_ the image right now, in Perez art even. *wist* (beth looks at her colored stuff of TFT and wonders if she could make Gabe's skintone more tan without making her fade into the background. Hm. *sigh* Like I'll ever get the time in the next 4 years.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 17:22:05 -0400 From: "S.D." Subject: RE: IN> Relic: Vitanda Necklace >For angels, I can see this. For demons? Er, well, my view of the >canonical Asmodeus (i.e., if your game thinks otherwise, GO WITH IT! >KICK THE CANON!) is that he'd rather have a Renegade in hand, being >tortured for the cameras and providing an Example of Why Treason To Hell >Is Bad. Not exiled. So while he might want to trace Renegades, this >would require a Djinn, not a relic. Unless Azzie wants to set 'em up as a time bomb and not waste a Djinn attunement... >Now, equipping a Shedite with something like this, only concealable, >and then going in to 'frame' demons with Dissonance... That's Gamestery. That works better than my idea, I think. ^^ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 00:24:06 +0000 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> Jumping Malakim... (Re: Shamanism: Limits set) >I don't know, I would have thought that a Dissonant and >wishing to Redeem demon who stumbled into the 8th Virtue >would have a great time. > >Especially in comparison to the Game Renegade hunting >squad who follow you in there... > *ROTFL* Let's see, how can I steal this for my campaign ... Janet Anderson _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 00:29:00 +0000 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> Ethnic backgrounds of Archangels? >If it amuses, I already had it on my mind before this thread showed up, >due to another thread elsewhere, that when the time came to ask for a >splashpage for Novalis, she should be portrayed as a black woman. Because, >well, I can _see_ the image right now, in Perez art even. *wist* I can see it too, and I'd venture to say it might mercifully expunge the Drip image of Novalis. Janet Anderson _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 19:09:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Dogma (mild spoilers) - --- Brian Rogers wrote: > I saw a lot of ideas about > Jay and Silent Bob being Soldiers of this or that. Never > cared for that. I always liked the idea that they were > just a couple of regular unboosted guys who got caught up > in the whole mess. Likewise (though Metatron does refer to them as Prophets). As for Golgothans, reconsider the origin that is given for them. That's more Saminga's line than Haagenti's. ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 "Be aware that most people are operating on a highly condensed version of the 10 Commandments... the part about murder." -- Mark Bricklin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 18:29:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Ethnic backgrounds of Archangels? - --- Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > If it amuses, I already had it on my mind before > this thread showed up, > due to another thread elsewhere, that when the time > came to ask for a > splashpage for Novalis, she should be portrayed as a > black woman. YES. Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/13/02(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 21:44:44 -0500 From: "Gregg Forge" Subject: Re: IN> Ethnic backgrounds of Archangels? >If it amuses, I already had it on my mind before this thread showed up, due >to another thread elsewhere, that when the time came to ask for a >splashpage for Novalis, she should be portrayed as a black woman. Because, >well, I can _see_ the image right now, in Perez art even. *wist* Ironically, it's never Novalis I see as being the 'sistah' of Heaven. That distinction belongs, of all things, to Zadkiel. Though a darker-hued Novalis works too, in an sorta Natalie Porter way. > >(beth looks at her colored stuff of TFT and wonders if she could >make Gabe's skintone more tan without making her fade into the >background. Hm. *sigh* Like I'll ever get the time in the next 4 years.) > Good thing I've got Photoshop handy... Actually, I think I'll try my hand at this. Normally, this sorta project doesn't really catch my eye, but there's a lot of potential being overlooked... Kamika-Z, completeing a few sketches, and making use of a number of reference photos... _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 23:11:28 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Ethnic backgrounds of Archangels? > > splashpage for Novalis, she should be portrayed as a > > black woman. > > YES. I dunno. I see a Japanese Novy a lot easier, because a) the Orient has all these cool proverbs like "The bending reed survives the storm, the unbending oak does not" and b) she fits the cliche of 'ancient master who you think you can break over your knee, but will in fact outlive everything including yourself '. Zadkiel, on the other hand, is definitely black to me. I'm thinking specifically of an angel TV show that used to air Sunday evenings.... yes, her. And David. I don't know how they got the Aryan thing with him. - -- Casca "Many people hear voices when no-one is there. Some of them are called mad and are shut up in rooms where they stare at the walls all day. Others are called writers and they do pretty much the same thing." --Margaret Chittenden, writer ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 22:38:28 -0500 From: "Gregg Forge" Subject: Re: IN> Ethnic backgrounds of Archangels? >--- Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > If it amuses, I already had it on my mind before > > this thread showed up, > > due to another thread elsewhere, that when the time > > came to ask for a > > splashpage for Novalis, she should be portrayed as a > > black woman. > >YES. > >Moe I'm still undecided, and there's several reasons for it. But part of me likes the idea, if only because the fic I wrote for Queen of May that isn't list-safe suddenly becomes a perfect BET special. And I actually mean that in a non- derisive manner... Kamika-Z, who isn't really as bitter as he sounds, sometimes... _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 22:41:40 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Ethnic backgrounds of Archangels? From: "David Edelstein" > > Actually, his picture in the main rule book looks to me like a white guy > with dreadlocks. He looks black to me, but then I've known black people with lighter skin than Eli is portrayed as having. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 22:42:43 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Jumping Malakim... (Re: Shamanism: Limits set) From: "Elizabeth McCoy" > >> Don't be a dissonant Malakite > >> at the Eighth Virtue. > > > >Don't be a dissonant ANYTHING at the 8th Virtue. > > > >Unless you LIKE being thought of as a party favor.... > > A very dissonant Shedite, begging for redemption, would probably > be okay! O:> KK, on the other wing, would just LOVE to find out where it's being held... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 23:01:02 -0500 From: "Gregg Forge" Subject: Re: IN> Ethnic backgrounds of Archangels? >I dunno. I see a Japanese Novy a lot easier, because a) the Orient has all >these cool proverbs like "The bending reed survives the storm, the >unbending oak does not" and b) she fits the cliche of 'ancient master who >you think you can break over your knee, but will in fact outlive everything >including yourself '. > Doesn't quite work for me; I always see Novalis, if anyone, if not as a black woman, then as a Greek woman. Something oracle-ish, even if that God-spouting is Gabriel's job. I keep picturing Novalis as either Greek, or a very tanned Italian. And unlike Haagenti, who makes you eat until ya go pop, she knows just how much it takes to make ya full, and there's always just a little bit more for your friends who are showing up with you, even if you didn't tell 'er you had plans of bringing people with you. >Zadkiel, on the other hand, is definitely black to me. I'm thinking >specifically of an angel TV show that used to air Sunday evenings.... yes, >her. Oh, g*ds, no. Zadkiel's got far more of a sultry-ish thing going. At least, in my head. She's the mom who looks good. The one you expect all your friends to lean over and whisper to you, "Dude, that chick is SO hot..." whereupon you just give them a look and say, "Dude...that's my -mother-." But at the same time, if you are one of those friends who thinks said mother-unit is a hottie, you don't DARE let her find out, 'cause you -know-, even though you avoid thinking about it, that the woman is not only more woman than you'd ever be able to handle, but she'd break you like so much cheap glass. >And David. I don't know how they got the Aryan thing with him. Hey, they're just another sort of tribe, after all... Kamika-Z, who never thought of David as having an ethnicity... _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 23:03:57 -0500 From: "Gregg Forge" Subject: Re: IN> Ethnic backgrounds of Archangels? >From: "David Edelstein" > > > > Actually, his picture in the main rule book looks to me like a white guy > > with dreadlocks. > >He looks black to me, but then I've known black people with lighter skin >than Eli is portrayed as having. > Though this teeters on the edge of Forbidden Thread™ territory... Someone said this one, and I'm inclined to agree. Kamika-Z ...Eli in the books looks like Bruce Willis with dreads... _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 09:17:45 +0100 From: "Harfield@eidosnet.co.uk" Subject: IN> Ethnic backgrounds of Demon Princes(s's)? I don't know about the archangels - personally I'm of the mindset that beings of such power can look like whatever they want - but the important question is what ethnic backgrounds do the Other Side favour? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 03:56:50 -0500 From: "Gregg Forge" Subject: Re: IN> Ethnic backgrounds of Demon Princes(s's)? >I don't know about the archangels - personally I'm of the mindset that >beings of such power can look like whatever they want - but the important >question is what ethnic backgrounds do the Other Side favour? My crackpot theory? The groups most wrong in the past. Common ground, or at least, as close to common ground as they will allow themselves to have with the talking monkeys. Kamika-Z, who always envisions Malphas as a Russian, for some reason. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 07:33:53 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Mr Pumpkinhead Pumpkinhead was a character in Frank L. Baum's Wizard of Oz series. Pumpkinhead needed to replace his head every so often because it would rot. Sounds more like an undead plant with a Need. Nice guy though, despite his tendency to breed fruit flys. "I don't want the whole world, I only want your half." - They Might Be Giants Pete, Demon of Misinformation http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/IN/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 12:55 +0100 (BST) From: jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) Subject: Re: IN> Ethnic backgrounds of Demon Princes(s's)? In article <003101c216a0$b9d026c0$441886d4@co.uk>, harfield@eidosnet.co.uk () wrote: > I don't know about the archangels - personally I'm of the mindset that > beings of such power can look like whatever they want - but the > important question is what ethnic backgrounds do the Other Side favour? Depends on the impression they want to make, if they're dealing with anyone who an impression can be made on. And on the dignity of the thing. I mean, can /you/ see Lucifer in a vessel as an American redneck? - --- John Dallman jgd@cix.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 08:27:37 -0400 From: "Roger Williby" Subject: Re: IN> Ethnic backgrounds of Demon Princes(s's)? Lucifer as a redneck? Absolutely. The image of a redneck brings to mind, to me and my friends at least(sorry if anyone is offended), thoughts of prejudice and ignorance. And all the worst things that white people can be. Now, of course some people have a different idea of what a redneck is. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 05:36:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Ethnic backgrounds of Archangels? - --- Eric Bertish wrote: > I dunno. I see a Japanese Novy a lot easier, because a) > the Orient has all > these cool proverbs like "The bending reed survives the > storm, the unbending oak does not" They have proberbs like that in African too (remember that "It takes a village" line?), they're just not as well known in the West. OTOH, portraying Marc as Asian makes a kind of sense; surely his Word encompasses kaizen. ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 "Be aware that most people are operating on a highly condensed version of the 10 Commandments... the part about murder." -- Mark Bricklin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 05:39:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Ethnic backgrounds of Archangels? - --- Prodigal wrote: > He looks black to me, but then I've known black people > with lighter skin than Eli is portrayed as having. So have I, but he still looks like a White guy with dreadlocks to me. It's not about the color, it's about the features; his cheekbones and the shape of his nose are classically European. But then, you can hardly blame the artists for drawing the kinds of faces with which they are most familiar. ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 "Be aware that most people are operating on a highly condensed version of the 10 Commandments... the part about murder." -- Mark Bricklin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 05:43:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Ethnic backgrounds of Archangels? - --- Gregg Forge wrote: > Oh, g*ds, no. Zadkiel's got far more of a sultry-ish > thing > going. At least, in my head. She's the mom who looks > good. > The one you expect all your friends to lean over and > whisper > to you, "Dude, that chick is SO hot..." whereupon you > just > give them a look and say, "Dude...that's my -mother-." Oh, heck yeah! That's Zaddie, all right. The one element that needs adding is that, just like that archetypal hot mom, she'd never initiate such inappropriate contact (please note that I'm talking about the archetype here, not the actuality) -- but how she'd punish anyone who did! ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 "Be aware that most people are operating on a highly condensed version of the 10 Commandments... the part about murder." -- Mark Bricklin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2678 ********************************