in_nomine-digest Thursday, July 11 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2701 In this digest: Re: IN> my thought on Satan Re: IN> Re: ETHEREALS outside the Symphony? Re: IN> Re: ETHEREALS outside the Symphony? RE: Re: IN> my thought on Satan RE: Re: IN> my thought on Satan Re: IN> my thought on Satan Re: IN> my thought on Satan IN> CPG Question Re: IN> CPG Question Re: IN> War-Oriented Mundane Devices Re: IN> Saw Patton last night... RE: IN> Exciting New Contest! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 11:18:51 +0000 From: "carson young" Subject: Re: IN> my thought on Satan Yes, I realize that lot's of religions have no conflicting god and anti-god figures, but my claim was that most anyone would recognize such a figure, rather than believe in one. I'm not sure what powers an epithet exactly, but I thought that the recogizeability would make a lot of power for one. > > There is no Devil in the Wiccan faith, IIRC. Many >non-Western religions are equally without such a figure. >The above statement is Eurocentric at the very least and >misinformed at worst. Which is not to say that Lucifer >isn't recognizable. Christians have been very successful >at imposing their belief system on cultures that had >nothing like it, so it's no great stretch of the >imagination for an Aboriginal shaman to recognize the Devil >when the shaman sees the traditional signs. > >===== >Michael Walton, #US2002023848 > "Communism doesn't work because >people like to own stuff." -- Frank Zappa > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free >http://sbc.yahoo.com Carson Young, habbalite of GM's _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:41:16 EDT From: StoyboI@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Re: ETHEREALS outside the Symphony? - --part1_8f.1ebb3512.2a5e03fc_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All those questions are actually answered in the main book and Revelations II: The Marches. - --part1_8f.1ebb3512.2a5e03fc_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All those questions are actually answered in the main book and Revelations II: The Marches. - --part1_8f.1ebb3512.2a5e03fc_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:58:59 -0400 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Re: ETHEREALS outside the Symphony? At 05:41 PM 7/10/02 -0400, you wrote: >All those questions are actually answered in the main book and Revelations >II: The Marches. You need to turn HTML email off. Instructions for doing so with AOL 6.0 can be found here: http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/mimehtml.html Although you appear to be using AOL 7.0, these instructions may still work. Posting again without first turning off HTML will result in Beth responding, and she's a lot less happy than I am about it. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 18:24:30 -0600 From: thorrbjorn93 Subject: RE: Re: IN> my thought on Satan This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --Boundary_(ID_V9r8nH5ni0snn5UhFAhASw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > There is no Devil in the Wiccan faith, IIRC. Quite right. > Many non-Western religions are equally without such a figure. Many Western ones, as well. Perhaps non-Abrahamic (Abrahamic being Judaism, Christianity and Islam) would be a better term. Take care, Paul - --Boundary_(ID_V9r8nH5ni0snn5UhFAhASw) Content-type: application/ms-tnef; name=winmail.dat Content-transfer-encoding: base64 Content-disposition: attachment; filename=winmail.dat eJ8+Ih8AAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEGgAMADgAAANIHBwAKAAcAEwAAAAMABwEB A5AGAMQDAAAVAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQAAAAAAAgEdDAEAAAAbAAAAU01UUDpUSE9S UkJKT1JOOTNAWUFIT08uQ0EAAEAABg4AelhaFCjCAQIBCg4BAAAAGAAAAAAAAAC/MmAsBjmIRYm+ kEk3KcCFwoAAAAMAFA4BAAAACwAfDgEAAAACAQkQAQAAAGIBAABeAQAA8AEAAExaRnVs54pphwAK AQ0DQ3RleHQB9/8CpAPkBesCgwBQAvMGtAKDJjIDxQIAY2gKwHNl2HQwIAcTAoB9CoAIzz8J2QKA CoQLNxLCAdAgPkggVGgEkGUgBAAgwG5vIERldgMRC4AEIHQYACBXaWNjDQORZgtwGUAsIElJOFJD LgqjCoUKgFF1xxoQGDAFEGdodBqtF9CKTQBweRhxbi1XB5DXDvAEoRVAbBwAaQIgBCCjCsAYMGVx dQdAbB2AzwPwGUAIYAVAc3UTYB7w9xngHAAIcGUarR1THeYCICsHkBpAYQQgdx5wbC5sIFAEkBNw cBhiHcBBKGJyYRNwbRmQICgJJIhiZQuAZyBKdZJkC3BzbRpAQ2gFELceAAcwAwB0HYAAcGQaULJz C2BtKR+wCGBsJ7B/JdAggSXQAkAEkBkwBJBtcRqtVGFrGDAZsBVALCkatVBhKGB9K/AAAAsAOoAI IAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAA6FAAAAAAAAAgH4DwEAAAAQAAAAvzJgLAY5iEWJvpBJNynAhQIB +g8BAAAAEAAAAL8yYCwGOYhFib6QSTcpwIUCAfsPAQAAAIcAAAAAAAAAOKG7EAXlEBqhuwgAKypW wgAAbXNwc3QuZGxsAAAAAABOSVRB+b+4AQCqADfZbgAAAEM6XFdJTkRPV1NcUHJvZmlsZXNcUGF1 bCBhbmQgU2FzaGFcQXBwbGljYXRpb24gRGF0YVxNaWNyb3NvZnRcT3V0bG9va1xvdXRsb29rLnBz dAAAAwD+DwUAAAADAA00/TcAAAIBfwABAAAAMQAAADAwMDAwMDAwQkYzMjYwMkMwNjM5ODg0NTg5 QkU5MDQ5MzcyOUMwODVBNEE4MzYwMAAAAAADAAYQfyLOEwMABxDWAAAAAwAQEAEAAAADABEQAAAA AB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAFRIRVJFSVNOT0RFVklMSU5USEVXSUNDQU5GQUlUSCxJSVJDUVVJVEVSSUdI VE1BTllOT04tV0VTVEVSTlJFTElHSU9OU0FSRUVRVUFMTFlXSVRIT1VUU1VDSEFGSUdVUkVNQU4A AAAA4Ow= - --Boundary_(ID_V9r8nH5ni0snn5UhFAhASw)-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 21:17:41 -0400 From: EDG Subject: RE: Re: IN> my thought on Satan To the attention of thorrbjorn93: For some reason, MS Outlook has attached a file to your post. Sending attachments to this mailing list is strictly prohibited. Please make sure that this doesn't happen again. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 21:45:25 -0400 (EDT) From: jamoge@wm.edu Subject: Re: IN> my thought on Satan >Many Western ones, as well. Perhaps non-Abrahamic (Abrahamic being Judaism, Christianity and Islam) would be a better term. Or even post-Christian. No devil in Judaism. The angel Satan (who is never said to be anything but an angel that's willing to place a challenge to God), yes, but no real intelligent force of evil. Josh P.S.: Check out Moe's write-up of Satan for a great non- infernal write-up. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 19:13:58 -0700 (PDT) From: W S Subject: Re: IN> my thought on Satan While many faiths in the world do not have a central force of evil, dualism did not originate with the Abrahamic faiths. I would rahter place it's start with Zoosterism (damn the spelling!) I'd also STRONGLY recommend the books 'The Devil' (by Jefferey Burton Russel- it has two sequels I haven't gotten yet by the names of Lucifer and Mephistopholes and covers perceptions of a Supreme Evil through the ages and cultures of humanity) and 'A History of Hell' (which is much the same, although more focused on the Christian perception of Hell and damnation through the years- and by someone I don't remember). And, more on the original topic, Lucifier is Evil in In Nomine's recokonig. He is both supremely selfish in all his actions and as firmly opposed to the Will of God as anyone can be. As God defines what is good and evil, by opposing God Lucifier makes himself evil. Now, of course, he might say otherwise. Probally even believe it. He is a Balseraph, after all. ;) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 12:21:23 +0800 From: Manny Nepomuceno Subject: IN> CPG Question Hey, I'm having trouble figuring out how undead gain Forces. On page 89, it says "More important, an undead's soul is permanently tied to his configuration of Forces, which is tied to his corporeal form; he can never gain additional Forces on his own (though he can lose them)..." But on page 90, it says "Undead are still limited by their potential Forces (p. 17) but can acquire them like other humans, if they still have extra potential after becoming undead." Help? ;) Manny Neps http://www.geocities.com/angeloffools/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 22:38:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> CPG Question - --- Manny Nepomuceno wrote: > Hey, > > I'm having trouble figuring out how undead gain > Forces. > > On page 89, it says "More important, an undead's > soul is permanently tied > to his configuration of Forces, which is tied to his > corporeal form; he can > never gain additional Forces on his own (though he > can lose them)..." > > But on page 90, it says "Undead are still limited by > their potential Forces > (p. 17) but can acquire them like other humans, if > they still have extra > potential after becoming undead." > > Help? I read that to mean that a human with the potential for more than six Forces retains said potential even if he or she later becomes Undead. So, a six Force mummy with the potential for seven would be able to gain that seventh Force - *if* (and only if) a Superior felt like giving it. It can't get a seventh Force on its own, though. That help? :) Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/13/02(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 21:17:17 +1000 From: "Shane" Subject: Re: IN> War-Oriented Mundane Devices On 7 Jul 2002, 20:30, William J. Keith wrote: ... > Calabite Detector > > This device basically consists of a shielded radiation source and a > decay counter with a sensor inside the shielding, communicating with a > computer on the outside. It works on the principle that things arond a > Calabite decay faster.* The counter registers the decay rate of the ... > Naturally, decaying radioactive material must be replaced. Unless ... >From the In Nomine / Real World crossovers department: Anyone else suddenly remember those very innocent looking "fire detectors" you can buy from the supermarket that stick to ceilings and need the "battery" replaced so often? Anyone else suddenly wonder if maybe, just maybe, some of those "fire detectors" one sees in Teth- er, I mean, historically important buildings, are actually designed to detect something else? Things that make you go hmm. ;) Shane. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 21:19:37 +1000 From: "Shane" Subject: Re: IN> Saw Patton last night... On 30 Jun 2002, 21:37, Maurice Lane wrote: (sorry for the delay in replying, I've been on vacation) ... > So, why does he get out at all? Simple: Michael > sometimes gets a funny little feeling that something > big that involves his Word will go down fairly soon, ... Shane .oO (Superior-Level Malakim of War Attunement!!!) So just how many Corporeal Forces does Michael have, anyway? :) > and when that happens Michael absolutely hates not > being able to stack the deck beforehand. When that > happens, out go the Saints - and it's positively > amazing how many of them 'grow up' just in time to > affect major battles, campaigns or wars. Okay, Patton was born in 1885, and WW2 began in 1939, for a prelude of 55 years - if we assume the beginning of WW2 was the Symphonic trigger that Michael 'heard' in advance, that his estimation of the ETA is accurate, and that Patton's Role was planted in the first year of Michael's planning, then the Archangel of War has almost 29 million Corporeal Forces! :p However, WW1 could have been the trigger, for a prelude of only 29 years and just over a mere 15 million Corp Forces for Michael! :) I dunno, the things that occupy my mind and don't let go until I've done the math... Shane. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:38:08 -0400 From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" Subject: RE: IN> Exciting New Contest! To avoid hitting the volume restrictions, the Band Attunements will be presented tomorrow. VAATO : CALABITE & DEMON PRINCE OF SPEED Vaato is almost a parody of the common perception of the Calabim. His energy is barely contained in whichever form he chooses to manifest in. He squirms and fidgets and generally is never still. Things near him tend to break down and disintegrate at an amount proportional to how still he has to be, as if he is externalizing his motion. He does, however, take his word very seriously. Hasty decisions are certain to lead a mortal to ruination, as well as short tempers, jumping to conclusions and a quick roll in the hay. If it involves doing something quickly, Vaato has a hand in it. Nybbas has said he's a perfect role model for the MTV generation because his attention span can be measured in microseconds. If Vaato took the time to think about it, he'd probably be pissed off. Vaato takes little time to care for his appearance. His celestial form is rarely even dressed, after all, what use is clothing? In Corporal form, he cobbles together just enough to hold his forces for the duration of his appearance. They tend to spontaneously combust when he abandons them. He sees his part in the war as a matter of mass harassment. A lot of little sins done real fast to keep the opposition out of balance and never give them time to try and predict your movements. His servitors are ordered to "Seize the day!" Taking time to work out complicated plots and long-range plans just takes away the momentum of the moment. They should move, and move quickly. DISSONANCE It is dissonant for a servant of Vaato to move slowly. Throw caution to the wind or be eaten by doubt is the rule to live (or die) by. This is not to say that they must run headlong and blind (though many of them often do) but they must never stop and reconsider once a course of action is decided upon. If they do, they gain a note of dissonance. If they take up the same action and proceed, the note fades. This tends to annoy other demons that they might be working with. Vaato's attitude is "So what?" Most of his servants who are working with other demons tend to let the others do the planning. "Call me when you've got it figured out." is their catch phrase. And while the plodding plotters are working things out, the servants of speed go out and happily wreak mayhem and unhappiness until their cell phone rings. It should also be noted that Vaato does not appreciate clumsy servitors. He takes no one into his service that has an Agility that is less than 6. Most have an 8 or better rating. On the other hand, many of them have a Precision of 5 or less. It takes too much patience to learn how to focus. SERVITOR ATTUNMENTS FLEET FEET The demon with this gift may add his forces to his base movement rate without penalty. (i.e. : a demon who wished to run would be moving at {agility + forces} x 6) For one point of essence, he can add his entire movement rate (including his forces) to the base movement rate of the mode of transportation he is using. This will wear out the machine or animal, which must make a strength roll against the check digit of the demon's roll. Failure means the conveyance takes a point of damage. For every point of essence he further wished to expend, the demon may hold this damage in abeyance, storing it until the ride is complete, at which point all the damage is inflicted at once. HERMES SANDALS For a single point of essence, the demon may fly, ignoring gravity at will, for a number of minutes equal to his Will. He can only move as fast as his normal running speed. (Having the Fleet Feet attunment with this makes for a very speedy flight) At the end of the flight's duration, the demon may opt to spend more essence, or fall. No gentle landing if you're out of essence. DISTINCTIONS KNIGHT of KINETICS With the expenditure of a point of essence, the demon can impart his energy to an object or being. This translates to shooting it in a straight line a number of feet equal to the demon's Corporal Characteristics multiplied by his Celestial Forces. It will travel for a number of rounds equal to the demon's Will. Weight and mass do not affect this, though obstacles it may encounter could affect the distance traveled. Killing a human directly with this affects the Symphony, but killing one in an indirect fashion does not. (If you cause a car to run someone over, it's bad. If you run a car into the support of a bridge, and bring it down on someone, it's okay) CAPTAIN of QUICK ANGER With an expenditure of a point of essence, the demon my make as many people angry as he has number of Celestial forces. They are allowed a Will roll to resist. If the demon focuses on a single person, the demon's Will reduces their resistance. BARON of BAD CHOICES This highest distinction allows the demon to influence another's thoughts with nearly the facility of a balseraph. With a successful Will roll, the demon may make the victim ignore the repercussions of his actions. The victim is allowed a Will roll to resist. If failed, the victim will go on with the course of action being presented without thought to how his life will be effected later. It will not allow the demon to cause suicidal actions, but will allow things that might create suicidal situations. (Go ahead, shoot the pilot, someone else can fly the plane.) RELATIONS As a relatively minor prince, most of the other's ignore Vaato. Still, there are a few he gets along with, and a few that he can't stand. ALLIED : Nybbas, Valefor ASSOCIATED : Andrealpheus, Belial, Lilith NEUTRAL : Baal, Kobal, Kronos HOSTILE : Asmodeus, Saminga ENEMY : None BASIC RITES * Get someone hurt in a race * Spend an hour running or moving as fast as you can CHANCE OF INVOCATION +1 While Running +2 At a race of some kind +3 A winning ticket stub from a major race. +4 A shoe, tire or other piece of something or someone that has won a race today. +5 A horse that has won the Kentucky Derby, or a car that has won the Indy 500 +6 Win the Kentucky Derby or Indy 500 ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2701 ********************************