in_nomine-digest Monday, August 19 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2745 In this digest: IN> Well, I'm back (Part I) IN> Well, I'm back (Part II) Re: IN>Eli has been nice to me! Yay. IN> Consider Purity Re: IN>Eli has been nice to me! Yay. RE: IN>Eli has been nice to me! Yay. Re: IN> Consider Purity RE: IN>Eli has been nice to me! Yay. RE: IN>Eli has been nice to me! Yay. Re: IN> Well, I'm back (Part I) (and II) IN> Songs of The Corpse IN>Eli has been nice to me! Yay. Re: IN>Eli has been nice to me! Yay. IN> Names RE: IN> Names RE: IN> Names RE: IN> Names RE: IN> Names Re: IN>Beelzebub, DP of Corruption Re: IN>Beelzebub, DP of Corruption Re: IN> Consider Purity IN>Why did Oannes die? Re: IN>Why did Oannes die? RE: IN>Eli has been nice to me! Yay. Re: IN> Consider Purity Re: IN>Why did Oannes die? Re: IN>Why did Oannes die? Re: IN>Why did Oannes die? IN>Krona, Demon/Human/Person Princess of FATE! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 21:13:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Well, I'm back (Part I) ...and it was bloody hot at Pennsic this year. :) Moe "So, how was the Pennsic War, Boss?" By Maurice Lane Additional Material by Jaymiel and Sarah Blandine: "It was nice. Some people might think that 'living the Dream' is kind of trite, but I don't. So many people got their first taste of it this year. It was bloody hot, though." Christopher: "The kids were fun to have around, as always. You've got to keep them safe, though: when I wasn't making sure that they had enough sunblock or water, I was mailing a would-be pedophile to Timbuktu or administering emergency sunstroke remedies. The best part was when we had a Children's Day: I was on clay table duty, and I got them all to make their favorite kind of angels. As I always say, 'There's no such thing as a badly made angel clay sculpture: it's just that sometimes your favorite kind of angel is a Kyriotate and you just don't know it.' It was bloody hot, though." David: "Well, I did not spend as much time on the fields as I would have liked - I was 'camp mom' again this year - but everyone pulled together most satisfactorily to keep things running smoothly. It was bloody hot, though." Dominic: "You think that keeping the Host clean is hard? Try spending two weeks sorting out arcane heraldic device submissions. I spent the entire time at Herald's Point. I can't wait for next year. It was bloody hot, though." Eli: "Who needs sleep? Actually, after the last two weeks - merchant area, classes, list field, fencing field, archery field, thrown weapons field, cookouts, plays, concerts, bardic circles and general partying - I do. It was bloody hot, though." Gabriel: "It could have been warmer." Janus: "I hit every single party - and that's with all the times that I went offsite to get things for the encampment. Great fun, especially when Eli and Jean did the bardic crawl. It was bloody hot, though." Jean: "It was interesting to see how individual humans manage to find low-technology solutions to their needs: the water system was particularly intriguing, as well as the latest reproductions of medieval siege weapons. The ballista that Jaymiel and I designed worked quite adequately, in my opinion: interested individuals may see the details on my personal website. My personal musical performances were fairly adequate, as well. However, the local temperature was decidedly higher than normal; efficiency was unavoidably degraded as a result." Jordi: "Bah. I spent the entire War communing with the ants; they were better company. They did quite well for themselves, even if it was bloody hot." Khalid: "For the record, I was not the one who called the police to break up the Hell Party this year. I endorse the suppression, given the relentless blasphemy, rampant drunkenness, disturbingly loose morality, mocking diabolism and gratuitous exhibition of low-grade sadomasochistic paraphernalia that goes on there every year, but it was not I who rectified matters. I was busy going over my notes for the class I was teaching the next morning on Middle Eastern customs: it had a satisfactorily large number of participants, despite the heat." Laurence: "It was necessary that I act as a marshal for most of the time, but I was able to actually fight in a few battles this year. That was invigorating - though I am surprised about how many otherwise sensible and honorable fighters seemed to think that drinking and wenching half the night would have no effect on their battlefield prowess. However, I am hardly their confessor, so any sins of overindulgence, fornication and inappropriate humor are their own business. All in all, it was a good War ... but, 'zounds, was it hot." Litheroy: "Pleasant enough: Dominic wasn't too intrusive at Herald's Point and the classes weren't too inaccurate. I think that I'll camp with Enchanted Ground next year, though: nobody in camp even wanted to try living in a completely period lifestyle for even a few days. It was bloody hot, too." Marc: "Oh, I did pretty well; decided not to merchant this year and just shopped, instead. Got some decent bargains, too, even if it was bloody hot out. The real trick was getting it all home. Does anybody need a fleet of 18-wheelers?" Michael: "Made every battle, of course - but the best bit was when I got Laurence to go to the Men Without Pants party. I didn't tell him what it was all about, of course. No shit, there we were, and we're about to go through the line, when Laurence realized that the silhouette dancers were naked. What? Look, they had a couple of boxes set up lining the entrance. The front openings were covered with sheets and had lights in the back; anybody in the box would have their shadows show up on the sheets. They had dancers in the boxes, and they were naked. It's not that hard to work out, you know... "Where was I? Right: Laurence realized that they were naked, and he would have left right then, except that he had sworn to follow my lead without question or protest that night and I wasn't going anywhere except inside the party. So, he went in. There were a couple of guys between me and him, and he's kind of short, so I couldn't see him, but that's OK, because I know what's going to happen. Sure enough, about forty-five seconds later, I hear him. "Now, what did he say? Oh, right: 'Madam, you presume far too much on such short acquaintance." Laurence had discovered the Grope Line. "Well, it took forever for me to get in. Somebody told me later that they apparently rushed in more women for the gauntlet, once they got a good look at El Commandante - and seeing as somehow nobody told him how to get past it quickly, he had to just stand there until they were done. I understand that a couple of them even decided to double-check that Laurence really had no pants on underneath his kilt. After that, well, it was my turn, and you'll understand that the ladies were really determined to do their jobs by then. I have to admire their resolution. "Well, after I finally got through - one of the ladies was apparently having problems with her foot, so I let her hold on to my arm (well, mostly my arm) for a while - and I finally get a drink, I go looking for Laurence. It was hysterical. He's standing there, eyes looking for a safe place to rest for a moment, while every woman in the place is slowly but surely making a beeline for him. Well, not the poor girl who I'm carrying by now - you have to be very careful about foot injuries, you understand - but just about everyone else. You know that movie scene where the hero is suspended above a pool filled with circling sharks? Yeah, just like that. "By now the girl I'm holding is murmuring about how she really needed to get back to her own encampment and get some crushed ice applied - to her foot, you understand - and what could I do but offer her my further assistance? It would have been positively unchivalrous to do anything else. So I go over to Laurence, tell him that I'm off to deliver a fair damsel to her all-female encampment of bored masseuses and suggest that he drop some cash off at the charity booth and make his own way back home. He was so relieved that he took the fifty bucks or so that I slipped him and went off like a light. Probably I should have mentioned that it was a kissing booth, but I was sort of in a hurry. God, that was a great War. "What was I wearing to the party? A loincloth and a smile. It was bloody hot this year." Novalis: "It was nice: there was always something to do. There was check-in at the Troll booth, water-bearing at the battles, first aid at Chirugeon's Point, shepherding around the people for the first time - and, oh, yes, I finally got authorized for heavy weapons combat. No, of course I didn't go out and fight with a sword. It's too easy to hurt somebody with one of those, even when you're being careful. I authorized just so I could do combat archery: with the bows we use, everyone's perfectly safe, so it really isn't violent, is it? I had a good time with it: nailed Michael three times in the head during the Castle Battle. That was fun. It was bloody hot, though." Yves: "It was restful. It's always nice to see people making a deliberate effort to be polite, understanding and chivalrous with each other - even in the heat that we saw this year." Zadkiel: "Between Chirugeon's Point and getting Laurence out of the Men Without Pants party without him losing more than his sporran, I had my hands full... Erm. Let me rephrase: I was quite busy this War. I'm just glad that we didn't have too many medical emergencies, what with it being so bloody hot." ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/13/02(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 21:14:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Well, I'm back (Part II) Did I mention that it was bloody hot? Moe Part II Alaemon: "Really, I don't know why everyone complained about the heat: I was quite cool and refreshed the entire time. No, I'm not going to tell you how." Andrealphus: "They actually had fighting going on? I never made it out of the Bog parties: the main area was just too bloody hot." Asmodeus: "Ah, SCA politics. Nothing like the kind that we have at home, but occasionally amusing in a primitive sort of way. It was bloody hot, though." Baal: "Well, this 'Annual Enemies' thing is fine, but the 'Eternal Friends' crap has just got to go. They should use live steel, too. The field battles were fun, though - nothing like baking heat to put some venom into an attack - and so were the parties. Especially the Men Without Pants party: hey, Laurence, did you ever get your sporran back?" Beleth: "Boring, bland and too bloody hot. Do you know that they actually cheer and applaud looming lightning storms on at that War? Three million years of learned fear responses down the drain..." Belial: "Chilly... but I got to be in charge of the firepit this year. You could see the thermal bloom from ORBIT..." Fleurity: "Have you ever painted your body in woad, then sat back and taken a hit of a hookah filled with prime Afghani hashish with a nitrous oxide cylinder in the mouthpiece? It's so intense that you almost forget how bloody hot it is." Furfur: "What, you thought that I'd camp with the geeks? No way, man: I camp with House Death-Raven-Fire-Dark-Black-Wulf-Grim-Blood-Moon every year, 'cuz they really know how to rock. None of this Men Without Pants wannabe crap: that's for geeks, losers and the Archangel of the Sword. Oh, and yeah, it's never too bloody hot to be Hardcore." Haagenti: "The last night, the group next to us poured all of their remaining beer and alcohol into one big garbage can and dared anyone to have more than a mug. I drank it all. They want me to camp with them next year. Maybe if they get off of the Serengeti: it's bloody hot there." Kobal: "Aside from the obvious ironies, Pennsic's a lot of fun for me. There isn't any item of clothing that I can come up with that's so stupid or uncomfortable that somebody won't wear it. I'm especially fond of how popular chain mail bikinis have gotten, even though that may just be because it was so bloody hot out..." Kronos: "I didn't get my reservation in on time. Just as well, as it is a foolish diversion. Besides, I was informed that it was bloody hot this year." Lilith: "Well, personally I looked good - incidentally, Laurence, I somehow acquired your sporran. Do you Need it back soon? - but ultimately frustrating. Everyone Needed air conditioning. How the Hell am I supposed to find ten thousand air conditioning units in western Pennsylvania?" Malphas: "It's restful: we're all supposed to behave, so I don't do anything ... active ... but I don't have to. I can just sit and watch them all do it to themselves. It must be the heat, or something." Mammon: "Am I Blood-Sucking Merchant Scum? Are you kidding? I invented the phrase. No, really, I did. How did I do this War? Well, you have to understand that it really was too bloody hot this year to expect too much..." Nybbas: "They finally got email access at the War. I pretty much spent all my time there: it was too bloody hot to do anything else." Saminga: "I'm telling you, letting fighters 'resurrect' from battles is just bullshit. If you're dead, you're dead! Your corpse should swell in the brutal August sun! Ravens should come down and eat out your eyes! You shouldn't be allowed to just get up and fight again! Wusses." Valefor: "Stealing from campsites is just too easy. Now, stealing short-term companions is a different story: I got two from David, three from Michael, one from Gabriel and twelve from Laurence, although I'm not sure whether or not he realized that they were gone - or whether they were attached to him in the first place. No, I didn't get his sporran - but I know who did. Oh, yeah, I got three hundred and twenty nine (if you include the full marching band) from Eli, but that wasn't even remotely difficult. Still, a good time - good enough so that I could mostly forget how bloody hot it was this year." Vapula: "Don't get me started about the War this year. The marshals must have been grumpy from the bloody heat, or something, because they wouldn't pass my siege weapon. I told them, several times, that Greek Fire projectors were period - I even had documentation! But they kept whining about how it was unsafe. Unsafe!?! I made sure that it was padded! It was just like the time that they wouldn't let me bring a Carthaginian War Elephant onto the field, no matter how much duct tape I used..." ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/13/02(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 21:16:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Kanako Otaku Subject: Re: IN>Eli has been nice to me! Yay. Hehe, Kinda makes you wanna start a cute named Superior contest. With corresponding write-ups that are awfully munchkinny and cute. Should that happen... Dibs on the "Mint, Princess of Fate" idea!! On a side note, if you decide to couple a cute named Superior with a taste for irritatingly cute vessels, (the kind you would let them get away with anything), you've got a really nasty situation. I can see it now... Dominic catches Mint bringing a lot of people to their Fates, the bloody way. She smiles and the AA of Judgement succumbs to the seeming innocence and sheer utter cuteness of it all and lets her go. Kobal gets a laugh, Mint gets her doomed souls, Mike and Novy have something to irritate Dom with. Everybody wins!! ===== "A good author can make the mind imagine." "A great author can make the mind believe." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 21:18:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Consider Purity ...Crud, those two were longer than I thought. I had better link this one: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine/stories/ConPurity.htm Sorry, guys. :( Moe PS, Sorry, but it's sort of weird. :) ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/13/02(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 21:19:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Kanako Otaku Subject: Re: IN>Eli has been nice to me! Yay. >Sirea, fledging Cherub, who loves anime a little too much Same here. Though I tend to be a bit more attuned to writing Fanfics. Hence the current band (Balseraph). ===== "A good author can make the mind imagine." "A great author can make the mind believe." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 06:06:29 +0100 From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" Subject: RE: IN>Eli has been nice to me! Yay. >Just call her Setsuna. Or Pluto, of course. Though Puu also works. > Why not just Fate, or Lachis? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 00:11:42 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Consider Purity From: "Maurice Lane" > > PS, Sorry, but it's sort of weird. :) Nicely written, though. Good work. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 01:25:42 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: RE: IN>Eli has been nice to me! Yay. >>Just call her Setsuna. Or Pluto, of course. Though Puu also works. >Why not just Fate, or Lachis? Do you mean Lachesis? But Belldandy's such a *nice* girl. ;^) Skuld/Clotho: Jean; Ofanite (lots of energy) Belldandy/Lachesis: Yves; Mercurian (any Choir would do, but Blessed Bell looks Mercurian -- Belldandy herself is probably Distincted) Urd/Atropos: Gabriel; Bright Lilim (out from under Hatiphas, and with a *lot* of bad habits still) Mara: Kronos; Djinn (she's pushed away her own feelings to do her job at least once that I know of) William (yes, _way_ too much anime...) ------------------------------ Date: 19 Aug 2002 10:46:13 +0200 From: Rens Houben Subject: RE: IN>Eli has been nice to me! Yay. On Mon, 2002-08-19 at 07:25, William J. Keith wrote: > William > (yes, _way_ too much anime...) There's no such thing as too much anime. - -- Rens Houben | opinions are mine Resident linux guru and sysadmin | if my employers have one Systemec Internet Services. |they'll tell you themselves PGP public key at http://suzaku.systemec.nl/shadur.key.asc -- new Dec 12 2001 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 10:56:09 +0200 (CEST) From: Unni Solaas Subject: Re: IN> Well, I'm back (Part I) (and II) Oh Moe! You just made my day! :D Excellent comments and very nice the way Laurence /utterly/ ignored to comment on the horrors Michael had submitted him to. :) Now this monday ain't so bad after all. (You /know/ it's monday whan you insist on typing "-" with letters when punching a domain name into the browser... "registerbindestrekthis.no" my ass... bindestrek=hyphen in my language:) - -- language, n; an intangible artificial construct for obscuring one's meanings and intentions to others. -ppint. Unni Solaas ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 08:06:10 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Songs of The Corpse >> How does the "Celestial: Where did your soul go?" >> work with plants? "Gone to Momma Novalis"? > > If it's a plant that's notable enough to have a soul - one suspects that > many don't - then it gets Heaven/Hell/Ghost/Marches/Dissipate, like an > animal, I guess. Ghost plants. I haven't giggled this much since the last time I read the "Lobo vs Hitman" comic book. (Bueno... Excellante!) "Wooohhhh! I am the Ghost of the Fern You Forgot To Water... Wooohhhh! I'm going to haunt you until you make amends... Wooohhhh! You must do as I instruct if y* Hey! Put down my pot! That's my focus! Hey! This window gets too much sun in the afternoon! Why are you opening it? It's the middle of winter! Hey! No! Wait!" (Neighbors are awakened by the sound of breaking pottery.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 08:06:13 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN>Eli has been nice to me! Yay. >> Personally, a DP with a cute name is less feared, but more dangerous. >> Think about it. Look at Novalis. No one in Hell recognizes that she can >> be a potential threat. > Heh, male Novalis = Nova, a very threatening name. Unless you speak Spanish. "no va"(sp.) = "no go"(en.) Chevy took a bath when they tried to sell Novas in Mexico. > But goodness, Mint, Princess of Fate DOES tickle me good. Sounds like an escapee from a Super Mario game. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 05:08:52 -0700 From: " Cameron McCurry" Subject: Re: IN>Eli has been nice to me! Yay. On Mon, 19 Aug 2002 08:06:13 -0400 BC Petery said unto us: > Unless you speak Spanish. "no va"(sp.) = "no > go"(en.) > > Chevy took a bath when they tried to sell Novas > in Mexico. Looks like the Demon of Urban Legends is still hard at work with that one: http://www.snopes.com/business/misxlate/nova.htm >>But goodness, Mint, Princess of Fate DOES tickle me good. I am still more concerned about the Infamous Demon Princess of Cute. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 10:05:51 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> Names Kanako Otaku wrote: > > Eeps.....Kronos Princess of Fate? Wait, that requires a name change. > Kronos sounds too much like a guy's name. Hehe....I can think of a > few, but they're rather cute..... Kronette? Kronina? Actually, since the name is Greek, the best equivalent might be "Nemesis" or "Atropos" (the Fate of Death) or possibly "Moira" (Greek for fate/destiny/doom/preordained-outcome). Sirea Theyal wrote: > Heh, male Novalis = Nova, a very threatening name. Actually, "Novalis" *is* a male name. I first encountered it as the pen name of a male 19th-century poet, and the Novalis of the original French game presents as male. By the by, one of my little beefs with IN is the names. There was a whole raft of usable and authentic Hebrew names that could have been used for AAs, etc., and were overlooked. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 10:18:47 -0600 From: Julian Mensch Subject: RE: IN> Names > By the by, one of my little beefs with IN is the names. There was > a whole raft of usable and authentic Hebrew names that could have > been used for AAs, etc., and were overlooked. Me too, especially because it leaves so many classical, famous angels (& demons) unused or in minor roles. I like to imagine that the common names are in fact humanized names taken by some AAs -- for example, Uzziel, Archangel of Stone, decided to take on the name "David" to honor the great Hebrew unifier-king, while Laurence was once called Raguel, Dominic Remiel, Eli Seraquiel, and so forth. I don't think it was an oversight, though. INS/MV, from what I've heard, is pure satire/pop culture; wierd Hebrew names would have been as out of place there as in the old George Burns "Oh, God" movies or "Touched by an Angel." SJG-IN was trying to balance trueness to source material with authentic flavour, and they did a rather good job. But it's still a matter of give and take -- go more authentic to please Earl and Julian, and Perry Lloyd (and other INS/MV fans) lose out on the cognitive ties. As an aide, how would people react to Superior name changes in Heretical material? I notice that, for example, Superiors never change their names when they Fall/Redeem on this list, even though it makes perfect sense to me that Djinn-Novalis would rechristen herself Belphegor or something. I think that keeping the same name helps people to identify the new Sup with the canon version, lending to the wierd mirror-image feeling a lot of heresy material seems to want to inspire. OTOH, some of it ends up being unintentionally silly -- in Tattered, for example, you have the cognitive dissonance-inducing "Archangel Baal", "Archangel Lilith" and *especially* "Archangel Beelzebub" that serve to (IME) dispel some of the biblical mood/feel the work might retain if these AA's had more angelic names. My primary worry here is that if you change the name, people will see the new Superior more as a different entity rather then a reinterpretation of an existing one (which could be good or bad, considering...) - -- Julian Mensch ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 09:33:27 -0700 From: " Cameron McCurry" Subject: RE: IN> Names On Mon, 19 Aug 2002 10:18:47 -0600 Julian Mensch said unto us: >>I notice that, for example, Superiors never change their names when they Fall/Redeem on this list, even though it makes perfect sense to me that Djinn-Novalis would rechristen herself Belphegor or something. Why? After all, none of the Demon Princes changed their name when they Fell. But as for name changes in Heretical material, go for it if it makes sense to you. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 11:08:55 -0600 From: Julian Mensch Subject: RE: IN> Names << Why? After all, none of the Demon Princes changed their name when they Fell. But as for name changes in Heretical material, go for it if it makes sense to you. >> Really? I had the impression that they all did. Is there any canon here? - -- Julian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 10:14:46 -0700 From: " Cameron McCurry" Subject: RE: IN> Names On Mon, 19 Aug 2002 11:08:55 -0600 Julian Mensch said unto us: >>Really? I had the impression that they all did. Is there any canon here? I don't have the books handy, but there are books that mention Andraelphus, Beleth, Malphas and Belial as angels. It says nothing about them having a name before that. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 16:43:26 -0400 From: Damien A Wellman Subject: Re: IN>Beelzebub, DP of Corruption On Fri, 16 Aug 2002 14:42:04 +0000 "Sirea Theyal" writes: > Well, I can imagine no in a time when B was powerful, but when there > are a > handful of Corruptions servitors left, it isn't that bad. For one, > it's an > NPC power only. Second, it only works on angels with the seed of > Falling in > them- I think I'm going to put in Outcast angels only, I forgot > about that > *important* detail. I'll also remove the penalty on the will roll. Or, perhaps, make it sort of an Infernal version of the Divine Logic attunement - by talking to an Outcast angel for at least a couple of minutes, the demon can convince the angel that Evil is Good and provoke a fall. This would prevent said demon from just pointing at an angel and making them Fall. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 23:53:08 +0000 From: "Sirea Theyal" Subject: Re: IN>Beelzebub, DP of Corruption > Or, perhaps, make it sort of an Infernal version of the Divine Logic >attunement - by talking to an Outcast angel for at least a couple of >minutes, the demon can convince the angel that Evil is Good and provoke a >fall. This would prevent said demon from just pointing at an angel and >making them Fall. > Your probably right... that's a good idea. I really just wanted to use it as a McGuffin or plot seed, with some utterly ancient and insane renegade Baron running around doing his best to hunt down Outcast, doubting, dissonant, and discordant angels. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 17:02:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Consider Purity Okay... that was disturbing. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"There are two things that stand in the way of happy marriages

-- men and women." -- Rev. David Moore

__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 00:05:48 +0000 From: "Sirea Theyal" Subject: IN>Why did Oannes die? Well, I went on a glorious and happy deep sea fishing trip today, and while fighting off some seai-llness, I of course began to think about In Nomine. Well, first I actually looked around me and realized just how utterly MASSIVE and WIDE and ENDLESS and IMPORTANT the ocean really is. Then a thought occured to me- why exactly did Oannes die by Belial's hands? Belial may have been very powerful, but his Word was still only an aspect of the full Word of Fire, and Fire is not nearly as common or as important as Water was. I can understand if Oannes Word was simply the Waters, as in the biblical sense, but for something so utterly powerful and important as Water, I would think Oannes would have been able to wipe the floor with the smelly little Calabite, simply from the power of his Word. Comments, theories, etc? I'm not saying it was bad idea for the writers to do this either- it is their creation, and I understand the idea of "plot devices" and whatnot, and also "deadlines/lack of coffee/massive lack of creativity from too much work". I just personally think Oannes should never have died, and Belial should have been reduced to a gremlin. What do you all think? _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 17:20:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN>Why did Oannes die? - --- Sirea Theyal wrote: > I actually looked around me and realized just > how utterly > MASSIVE and WIDE and ENDLESS and IMPORTANT the ocean > really is. That it is. But Oannes' Word wasn't simply the Ocean -- that was Vephar's Word. Oannes' Word was the Waters. This covers all the waters on earth, salt or fresh. It may also have included the "waters above the waters" referred to in Genesis, which suggests that Oannes Word encompassed the vastness of space as well as the vastness of the deeps. All of which makes Oannes' Word even more powerful than you painted it. So how did Belial take him down? Simple. Oannes was weakened after doing battle with Vephar, Prince of Oceans. Since Oceans is merely an aspect of the Waters, Vephar was definitely the underdog in that fight. He also lost -- but in doing so, he weakened Oannes enough so that Belial could finish him off. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"There are two things that stand in the way of happy marriages

-- men and women." -- Rev. David Moore

__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 00:21:12 +0000 From: "Sirea Theyal" Subject: RE: IN>Eli has been nice to me! Yay. > >>Just call her Setsuna. Or Pluto, of course. Though Puu also works. > > >Why not just Fate, or Lachis? > >Do you mean Lachesis? But Belldandy's such a *nice* girl. ;^) > >Skuld/Clotho: Jean; Ofanite (lots of energy) >Belldandy/Lachesis: Yves; Mercurian (any Choir would do, but Blessed Bell >looks Mercurian -- Belldandy herself is probably Distincted) >Urd/Atropos: Gabriel; Bright Lilim (out from under Hatiphas, and with a >*lot* of bad habits still) > >Mara: Kronos; Djinn (she's pushed away her own feelings to do her job at >least once that I know of) > >William >(yes, _way_ too much anime...) Oh, don't you make me break out my Cowboy Bebop/In Nomine rationlization charcter list. Don't you DARE. ^_~ _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 00:22:01 +0000 From: "Sirea Theyal" Subject: Re: IN> Consider Purity Yay! I like ideas about Uriel being EEEEEEEVIL, and stuff. Larry, maybe not so much... oy, that was some dark stuff o.o nice work _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 18:27:28 -0600 From: "Steven E. Ehrbar" Subject: Re: IN>Why did Oannes die? Sirea Theyal wrote: > Fire is not nearly as common or as important as Water was. All the water in the entire solar system is "just a drop in the bucket" compared to the fires of the Sun. - -- Steven E. Ehrbar ehrbar@softhome.net stevenehrbar@elp.rr.com We have to go forth and crush every world view that doesn't believe in tolerance and free speech. - David Brin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 00:46:45 +0000 From: "Sirea Theyal" Subject: Re: IN>Why did Oannes die? > That it is. But Oannes' Word wasn't simply the Ocean -- >that was Vephar's Word. Oannes' Word was the Waters. This >covers all the waters on earth, salt or fresh. It may also >have included the "waters above the waters" referred to in >Genesis, which suggests that Oannes Word encompassed the >vastness of space as well as the vastness of the deeps. >All of which makes Oannes' Word even more powerful than you >painted it. True, I meant to refer to all water, the ocean was just an example of how awe-inspiring it was > So how did Belial take him down? Simple. Oannes was >weakened after doing battle with Vephar, Prince of Oceans. >Since Oceans is merely an aspect of the Waters, Vephar was >definitely the underdog in that fight. He also lost -- but >in doing so, he weakened Oannes enough so that Belial could >finish him off. I guess I hadn't taken that into account... Vephar was a giant aspect of the Waters, and probably wore him down darn good... _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 00:48:33 +0000 From: "Sirea Theyal" Subject: Re: IN>Why did Oannes die? >Sirea Theyal wrote: > >>Fire is not nearly as common or as important as Water was. > > >All the water in the entire solar system is "just a drop in the bucket" >compared to the fires of the Sun. Well, I was thinking it was only earth related, but yeah, point taken. Still though, as it stood, a max power Oannes vs a max power Belial would have been messy. But fighting your counterpart and then your opposite number one after the other would be... a downer. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 01:19:57 +0000 From: "Sirea Theyal" Subject: IN>Krona, Demon/Human/Person Princess of FATE! (Screen is black, voice over of annoyed sounding teenage girl begins) Krona: You know, at 16 years of age, life had been going pretty good for me. (cut to anime style cartoon sequences of a young pale girl, with long black hair, a good athletic build, pale red eyes, and a somewhat bored smile walking down a high school hallway) Krona: I was leading in the inter-state tennis championships. (Show Krona playing tennis against a young man bearing the seal of Marc on his tennis raket, and scoring a point against him, smiling and giving the peace sign) Krona: I had scholarship coming to me for my great work in the field of History. (show Krona pouring over old and musty looking history books, reading about important people who have met untimely ends) Krona: And I had a... well, let's call him a "special freind". (show bishounen guy with his arm around Krona, as she smiles up at him with narrow and exotic looking eyes, while they sit on a car looking at the night sky) Krona: Then... *sighs* that all had to go and CHANGE. (Show a pack of grinning demons advancing on Krona, and her boyfriend running off with a scared look, with Krona calling "You yellow-bellied COWARD!!!" after him, as he runs out of the light of a street lamp) Krona: Apparently the world isn't as simple as I thought it was. And neither am I. (Krona stands wide-eyes before a beautiful man dressed all in black, with flowing ebony hair, and an aura of blinding white light. He looks at her and says "Krona, I am Lucifer, First of the Fallen, the Lightbringer". Krona looks him over and says "Woah... nice SFX. Are you single?") Krona: You see, there's this thing called "the War", and these forces called "Destiny and Fate". I'm apparently the focus and avatar for one of those forces. Guess which. (Lucifer stands with a freaked out Krona before Hell and proclaims to his Princes "I have found our Princess of Fate, my beloved servants, recognize her as second in power only to me. She shall lead the humans into the folds of Hell, now and forever". Many of the Princes leer and oogle, flashing over their faces.) Krona: So now I'm the Demon... human... person Princess of Fate, and while the benefits are great and all, it's starting to cramp my life style. (Pan to Krona, seeing Hell for herself still in her schoolgirl uniform. While walking through Shal-Mari, a freakish tentacle creature creeps out from the shadows and wraps around her suddenly. A voice says "My my... didn't anyone tell you, little girl, that the Prince of Lust has a FETISH for schoolgirl uniforms...?" the tentacled Andrealphus can't finish talking however, as he is suddenly slammed many times into the ground with a giant hourglass-hammer thingy. Krona screams "WHAT IN THE NINE HELLS IS YOUR PROBLEM, YOU PERV?!?!") Krona: But I'm trying to adapt the best I can, I mean, Lucifer-chan IS really cute... (Show Krona, now dressed in brown and black robes, wandering about with a GIANT book under her arms, and a legion of gremlins and imps following her through the Archives, each one of them holding some form of time-telling device. One particulary cute and small black demon jumps up and asks her what time it is. She responds that it's time for... ICE CREAM! And all the demons jump up yaying and cheering) Krona: Okay, aside from the horrible fashion crime that's my wardrobe, life isn't TOO bad... (Show Krona trying to laugh all evil and dark-like next to Baal. She fails, and Baal shakes his head, puts his hands on his hips, and lets out a bellowing laugh that shakes all of Gehenna. It zooms into Krona and her bunny familiar in shambles on the ground with little swirly eyes, and an SD Baal with a teardrop on his face.) Krona: I mean, just think of the benefits... (Show Krona's old boyfriend being dragged away from her crying SD tears by her demonling squad, and him being placed on the lap of Saminga, who's on his throne. He says "NEW TEDDY BEAR!!" and squeeze-hugs him, looking all Shedim-happy. Next to the throne is a pile of similar looking humans, all of them crushed and managled and SD.) Krona: And those guys in Heaven? Hey, no problem! (show Krona standing before a huge looming Dominic, with Yves looking out from behind him. Krona gives Dominic giant watery SD eyes and says "You wouldn't REALLY soul-kill me, just for doing my job, would you Dommy-Wommy?". Dominic wavers, gets multiple tear-drops, and slithers away crying "I-just-cant-DO-it!!! Waaaaaaaah!!!". Yves simply looks at Krono with an angry swirl as he slaps his forehead.) Krona: So the next time you think about how COOL it would be to join Hell, give me a call. The Princess of Fate is always willing to listen to some whiny loser complain about how life treats them so bad. Cause I can sympathize. Well, with how life treats me bad. Your the whiny loser still, you Fate chained being! AH HA HA HA HAAAAA! HAAAA! Haaaa! Haaa... uh... yeah. (Go to title screen, showing SD Krona grinning like a goof, with her bunny familiar on her shoulder. Around her stands an ultra-serious Asmodeus, a prideful looking Baal, a morbid and moody looking Beleth, and Nybbas, who is rolling camera on the crew with an intent look. From the left side of the title Kobal is looking down on the crew, pulling his eye down and blowing a raspberry. From the right side of the screen, Valefor is peeking his head out and grinning like an evil little Calabite.) _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2745 ********************************